Android chief Sameer Samat on Google Pixel and the path to AI glasses

28:44Like you've got to have the person interfacing with you and only you. That's why you don't see a lot of high-end fashion brands that get put in that normalized experience because they're like, well, that just compresses our brand down to just the skew. And we're so much more than that. We're like the way you feel when you engage with us. It's like the way that it makes you think about yourself relative to other people. There's always a soundtrack when you go to these high-end stores, you know, like, it's interesting. Like, I think that soundtrack is like playing in the background, like literally.

29:16Like, I think it's like carefully engineered to make you feel in a certain way, you know? Like, Amazon's not going to start playing a soundtrack for you when you're shopping for, you know, the shoes.

29:23Ellis:I still have tinnitus ringing in the ears from my early days at Abercrombie & Fitch and Hollister. So I know what you mean. The smell, too. I remember the smell. Yeah, there's like all these details, you know? And so I think it's the same question, but propelled into the modern, you know, like Gen AI world. It's like, you know, what is that trade? What is my experience going to be? How much of it do I own? How much of it is reduced down to least common denominator? And am I, you know, the word disintermediation, right, is always the word that I hear retailers bring up. It's like, am I disintermediated?

29:59Is it like, am I going to be substituted by something else at the last minute in the shopping cart? you know um is it is it a cart that that is just me or is it a cart and you know i think like some people have tried to find a middle ground of this like i don't know if you've if you've used instacart um but you know instacart is like it's like a marketplace but it's it's got individual stores you shop at right and i actually think they have limits on like you can't do a cross store cart you know and so all of this is speaking to the retailer of like should i

30:31Ellis:You'd rip a hole in the space-time continuum if you did a cross-store. Right. I mean, you'd be surprised how sensitive retailers are about this because they worry. They're spending all this money building their brand, building their store, building their products, and then they want to make sure that it's represented the right way. So I think all this factors in. And I think you're going to see those things play out again with all the Gen.AI stuff.

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32:25jobs. Samir, I don't know if you know this, but an enduring question in the tech industry is, what is Google's strategy with the Pixel? I think everyone understands Android. It's everywhere. It's the biggest operating system in the world. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. But the Pixel, you guys are doing some interesting things. I mean, the new phones are good. I've got the Pro 10-fold. Do you like it? Do you like the Fold? I like it. I do like it. I like the big screen um the this is i'm going to get into this like the issue for me is not the hardware actually at all um but it's it's this like you can't teach an old dog new tricks which is this like perennial problem i think you guys have with trying to get like decade plus ios users to switch which i want to get into but first just like on the pixel um you guys just signed i think alex cooper as an ambassador you had that flashy event in new york recently it seems like you're making a very concerted play for the premium market in the U.S.

33:26and you're really trying to win in the U.S. But I think, like I was saying, an enduring question is what is the goal of the Pixel? Because is it to actually compete with Apple in the premium market? Is it just to have a horse in the race, to experiment, to show OEMs what can be done with Android at its best, where it can actually work closely with the hardware stack? So I'd love to hear from you, what is the goal of Pixel? Are you all trying to be the dominant handset manufacturer as well as OS provider? Yeah, that's a good question. I'm glad you're enjoying your Pixel Fold. I like it a lot, too.

34:00I use my laptop a lot less when I have the Fold. I just feel like I can get a lot done on it that way. But your question about Pixel is a good one. Taking a quick step back, Android is an open operating system, as I think many of your listeners know. We have a lot of partners. So my job and my role is we work with all of our partners. We just had Carl pay from nothing on the show last week. Carl's doing super interesting stuff. I listened to your talk with Carl. And what I love about what Carl is doing is it's exactly the vision that we have for Android, where there are different players with different perspectives building alternatives for consumers to choose.

34:43That's awesome. And I think he even says a lot. Like he's focused on particular audience, like Gen Z and what have you. And like that is so perfect from an Android vision standpoint. It's like, okay, you're actually going to build an OEM that goes after this segment. And you're going to do kind of, you know, like I have, well, first of all, you don't see my desk, but I have like one of everything on my desk. Like I have one of his phones here, you know? And I think that's really cool. It's like really different. And I think it's great. Right. And so from an Android perspective, there is many different ways to build great stuff.

35:17And when you talk about Pixel, I think Pixel is like Google's take on a phone and a phone ecosystem. And when I say that, it's like it's not to diminish anything that a partner is doing, like, you know, like Samsung's doing what OnePlus is doing, what nothing's doing. Like these are all different takes on how computing should work. And Google, as a company that first and foremost, I think, is a lot about computing, also, I think, wants to have a way of expressing its view of what an awesome computing experience would be. And one thing that's great about that innovation is it can set a standard.

35:56You know, it can raise the bar for the whole industry on the Android side, but also beyond that. I mean, my example of this that I love is computational photography. You know, even before Pixel had its new ID, you know, we've had this ID change with the with like, you know, the visor and all that. Like Pixel, I think, was recognized as having the best camera. And a lot of that was not the optics. A lot of that was the software, you know, the computational photography. And so we like I think we Google demonstrated that you can have amazing photography on these smartphones. And what that did is a lot of people started copying that.

36:36You know it kind of set a new standard and before that I think the general impression was that the iPhone was better at photos and that Android phones were not very good at photos and I think pixel changed that and then other Android OEMs figured out how to do a better job of that and I think we've begun to change that impression Certainly in other parts of the world in the US. I think people are still realizing you know how much better your photos can be but I think it was like we want to do something different. We want to reach new audience. We want to reach the iPhone user. We want them to understand that there are other alternatives out there that are built and speak to their needs.

37:12And if you look at what Pixel has achieved in Japan, just as an example, and this kind of speaks to your next question of old dogs and new tricks, which I think I know where you're going. If you're an iPhone user, can you really switch? Actually, we've taken pretty meaningful share in Japan of iPhone user back over to Android slash Pixel. And I think that's just like good product, good marketing, bringing down walled gardens and getting it right at retail. And so I do think it can be done. It's hard. There are still a lot of remaining challenges that need to be busted through. Not all of them are technology Locked challenges some of them are are, you know walled garden challenges, but but all that are Are things I think that are possible over time?

38:06Yeah, I mean using the fold was a great Example of this for me because the hardware is great I mean there's that tiny little crease which I know you guys will get rid of in the fold But you can't really notice it most of the time. I do like the bigger screen The hardware around these phones feels like it's rapidly commodifying. They all start to look the same similar weight screen quality camera quality what's really different now is the software and I'm really interested by all the Gemini integrations and AI stuff that Android is doing and it does feel like you guys are ahead of the curve there from Apple because you have you know the Gemini stack which is very good but man yeah it's just this like mental block of like it's going to take me over an hour at least to just like learn this thing because I've been so on iOS for so long I just know it reflexively and I feel like that barrier of just like yeah I think it's cool but I just I either don't have time or the will to learn it is maybe a harder barrier for you guys to break than anything else yeah it's really interesting do you feel like it's it's the learning curve part or did you miss certain things more like airdrop and the green bubble blue bubble thing and all that to be honest no I think a lot of that stuff is you guys have parity with a lot of that stuff.

39:20I mean, there is Apple ecosystem stuff with the Mac and all that and continuity that's nice, but I don't really feel it's that. I just, for me, it's just like, it's old dog, new tricks, man. It's like, I've been on OS for so long and Ellis, I don't know if you sympathize with this, but like the idea of learning a new operating system is just like, yeah, if I have a whole Saturday afternoon one day, I'll do that. But I, it's just a very high bar and it has to be something very cool and very new and very different for me to want to do that I do think one thing is what I will agree with is the last thing you said which is I do think that Apple does a good I don't think iPhones have changed that much over the last two years but I do think Apple makes a good product so you have to give them their credit for that and I don't think there's a ton of people who are sitting there saying I hate this phone You know, I think there's a lot of folks that are that are like, I'm bored, you know, like I want more, you know, like I think there's more out there.

40:19Like, you know, and so I do think you have to innovate and you have to build really cool stuff that people understand, feel like addresses a real need. I can give you one small example of that, by the way. We launched this thing called Circle to Search last year with the Galaxy S25 and Pixel, S24 and Pixel, sorry. And, you know, it's just like really simple concept in retrospect, but it's like you long press the home button on your Android phone and then you can circle like with your finger any object or any image that's on the screen. You could be using whatever app you want, you know, and you bring Google multimodal search to that thing that you've circled.

41:01So you can circle the picture of the bow tie, just to continue that, on this person that's wearing it, or the watch. Or you can circle the waterfall on the picture and say, where is that? And you get this really cool search experience. So we launched that. And I was talking with a very big retailer in the US, their chief merchant. And he was telling me, it's such a cool feature. it's there's obviously a ton of technology behind that like a ton of ai and multimodal capabilities y 'all did a good job of marketing it and that you didn't talk about those things like you didn't like geek out in the marketing you just said like here's how this is useful to you on a daily basis like you're shopping you're you're trying to you want to plan a trip you want to do this you want to do that like here's how it's super useful people got it instantly and he said i have to tell you i have people coming into my store asking for the phone that has circled the search and I was like okay that's like really cool and I think it's like when you get those pieces right and I have so many thoughts on this by the way of like how to build products with AI and how to market them effectively you know but I think when you get that right I do think it can move the needle and I do think there is a moment here where we do have some advantages I would say in on the AI side versus the other folks and I think there's just an opportunity to change the interface like in a big, big way.

42:27And that's exciting as a builder of products in general, but as a OS maker and as experience maker, like making that as smooth as possible because Circle to Search is actually possible without that integration. Like you could download the image, you could open up the lens app, you could upload your image, you could then crop, you could have done those things, but I think it's like, how do you actually make it seamless and make it easy. And when you do that, I think it really takes off.

43:02Ellis:As the resident marketing and messaging fuckboy on the podcast. Is that on your business card? Yeah, that's awesome. I just love this boredom insight so much about people being a little tired of their iPhones. And the new vanilla campaign, I just absolutely love. Do you like that? I do. I mean, it just really hones in on this idea that like it's kind of fine. Everybody kind of likes it. But if you want something a little fresh and new that actually is going to move you emotionally, try this new thing. And then you show it through the circle to search through some of the AI features. And I think that is the only way to break through to anybody but phone holster guys.

43:46Which I am. Yeah.

43:48Ellis:You have a holster now? Yeah. And I mean, the lanyard, everything. You know, this is why I'm probably not the best example of someone who you need to be trying to convert, Samir. Were you involved in that? In the vanilla ad? No. I mean, I was involved in so much as like early concept, what are the things that really resonate. But in terms of making that happen, like we have such an amazing marketing team. They're so talented. I think it's also a willingness to be a little bit more direct about what we're trying to convey. And I think that's the benefit of having Pixel. I mean, I think first and foremost, the product has to be really good.

44:26And I think Pixel's won best smartphone of the year a couple years in a row. The reviews have been pretty good. So the teams work super hard on the hardware, on the software. And so I think the marketing team felt, hey, we have a story to tell here. And there's some real truth in the market around phone boredom. Um, and, and I think something new, something different was, was clearly a feeling that was resonating, um, as they, as they looked at it. So I think that campaign is great. I also like what they did with like best, what was it called again? Best phone, best friends forever. The, you know, where the pixel and the, and the, and the iPhone or, or have you, have you all seen those?

45:14Yeah. This is like last year. I thought those were, some of those are cute as well. Um, but, but I think it's important that it be grounded in something that people really feel instinctively and emotionally, not something that's mean or, or, um, or doesn't, you know, doesn't really resonate. And I think sometimes when you just throw tons of features out, you know, you're, you're speaking to a different part of the brain, right?

45:35Ellis:Laundry list never works. Right. And neither does the, like, you're a ivory tower elite and we're the ones who actually care about technology and features. And I think that's some of the stuff maybe Samsung has touched on in the past. That's why I love the vanilla is that it speaks to conformity, but not in a way that's kind of insulting, maybe. Still like vanilla ice cream once in a while. Yeah, vanilla ice cream is, I mean, I think that's a really good point. I think one of the reasons maybe it does resonate is because there's nothing wrong with vanilla ice cream. It's fine. I think that's how people feel.

46:11Well, like any good podcast, we've saved the actual news and timing of why you came on this week for the last nine minutes we've got here. So let's try to get into it. You all announced this week that this is Android now. We're moving off of phones. Your first kind of headset VR, I don't know if you're calling it VR, mixed reality headset partner for Android with Samsung. This has been a long rumored, reported on, teased device. It's finally coming out. um i have so many questions about this samir i mean i i've been covering headsets for as long as i can remember um and it really feels like the timing of this right now is very curious to me because if you look at what's going on like apple seems to be walking back from the vision pro i know they just did the chip bump but like vision pro has been kind of yeah it's been kind of a dud for them you can get them for half off on ebay meta meanwhile didn't do a quest upgrade it seems like they're kind of giving up on Quest.

47:10They won't say that, but that seems to be my read. They're more focused on the glasses. So why is Google doing headsets with people like Samsung, other partners in the year 2025? Like, is there a headset market? I'm just very skeptical that there actually is one. It's a great question. I mean, I think there is a headset market for sure. I think the question is how big will that market be over time is what you're asking, right? And And I mean, there are lots of different prognostications on this. My view on it is that the headset for us was important for a few different reasons. When we started the Android XR platform, we had a multi-year vision of a variety of different devices that people would want to build that were used for different purposes.

47:58And I think when people think about a headset, today what you see is a device that's pretty heavy relative to other things that you would wear on your face. You probably wouldn't go out in public with it. I've seen some people use them on planes. I've never done that. But you don't generally think of it as a device that you're going out and about with. But what it does have is it is a first stop on a long-term vision to building this augmented reality future, where you have a number of things you have to perfect on this device to really get that right. You have to get world blocking right. You have to figure out how to do digital and optical pass-through done well.

48:52You have to deal with thermals. You have to deal with a whole bunch of things, weight and the dynamics of all that. You have front-facing cameras that you want to be able to do perception with. So there's like a lot there that you can use as you build this future vision. So for many companies, it is their first stop along the way to that future vision. It's not like it's just for the – so like it has many meanings for us. Like the reason we're doing it is like we do think there's an opportunity in headsets, but we also think there's a lot of technology that we perfect for the future that's going to be really, really important to glasses.

49:29And so, you know, and I think and I don't think that's a unique strategy to Google. I think that's a lot of what when you really get deep in the space, you start to realize that it's a great form factor to begin getting this stuff out there, you know, in that way. The other thing that was really exciting to us is to start to perfect a new human computer interface, which is, you know, one of the things that's really awesome about this headset is like when we were building it, kind of the AI, all the Gen AI stuff happened early on. And so we still had time to say, like, well, we'll take a step back.

50:02And we actually delayed things a lot, you know, because of this. We said, well, we'll take a step back. Let's actually build Gemini into the UI, not as kind of like the UI is done. And then we're going to add Gemini on the side, you know, and we'll try to, like, integrate it in over time. But, like, let's build it in there from the beginning in a way that's very different. And I think why this form factor allows for that initially is like a few different things. Like there is no dominant like way of using a headset. Like the UI is not something that, you know, old dogs, new tricks, right? Like you don't have 10 years of experience using a headset where you're like, oh, you know, what is this thing?

50:40You know, so you can start from scratch in some ways. Right. You know, second, I think when you when you want the future vision of a personal AI assistant, you know, in something like glasses, you know, You do need this notion of like, it can see the world with you. It can hear the world with you. And you want to start perfecting those models. One of the things that's great about the XR environment with the headset is that a lot of that environment is rendered, right? And so you can pass that entirely through to the model perfectly. So it can be the first place where it can see everything that you can see.

51:17It can hear everything that you can hear, you know? And so like, we're going to learn a lot about that. And you want to start building experiences with that capability. We had this moment where we were looking at it, like what was possible with Gemini. And this is like very early Gemini. You know, so we were like, what if this improves like 10x? Like Demis is saying this is going to improve 10x. Like what if this improves 10x? We sort of looked at each other and we said like, okay, like remember the Iron Man movies like where you put on this thing and then you have Jarvis with you? Like Jarvis isn't like this thing that you go to occasionally and you're like, hey, help me with this thing.

51:50It's like constantly with you, sees what you can see, can actually take actions for you in the UI, can actually accomplish tasks for you while you're doing this. It can do that. Right. And we're like, that's pretty awesome. Like, I bet that would be amazing to build and like would be really relevant for glasses, would be really relevant for other form factors. Let's do that.

52:12Ellis:I know what the killer use case is. killer use case i circle to search my wife and i say what did she tell me to move to the garage i already forgot yeah that's a good one 500 million units sold 500 million units yeah we'll have to have to add that to the list so when you and i were catching up recently samir a thing you were telling me about was like you're really interested in this idea of like super memory which i am too in glasses. Exactly. The idea of like perfect recall of faces, conversations, context, all that. And Google feels uniquely positioned to do that in a glasses form factor. Is that the killer app?

52:52Is that the, I mean, you said Jarvis, but like, to me, that alone is a thing that will get people to buy something like that. I mean, super memory is definitely something that I haven't met a single person that tells me that that wouldn't be really helpful in their life right tons of privacy issues there that we have to work through right so like there's a lot to solve there but as a vision for like how to help you in your daily life i mean just seems really really useful um another one that's maybe shorter term is something i was encountering the other day which is like you buy a piece of furniture you have a set of instructions you know god help you you know um and i you know i'd love to just like glance at the instructions and then like start assembling the furniture and have it have something like tell me like no no no like it's that one that screw it's attached just to that it's like you know and i think those those kinds of things can be really helpful um and uh and and i think all this stuff is going to be possible um which is why it's super exciting And I think that this form factor is really, really interesting.

54:06So we're about to see the return of Google Glass. Is that what you're saying? We have a lot of history in this space. We're not new to it. I think we learned a lot through the past. I mean, we're not new to XR. We had Daydream before. We had Google Glass for Glasses. I think one of the things, so we learned a lot about both of these, which we've tried to incorporate. if you make it too hard for developers to build in this new environment, like it's just a really heavy lift and they have a lot to do, you know, which is so obvious. I mean, obviously, you know, but like I think this time around we've really tried to make it like if you're building for Android, then your app is already going to work in a 2d form in, in, in XR.

54:49And then we've tried to make it like you can add on parts of your app that are spatialized. You know, you don't have to like start from scratch. So like maps, like Google Maps is like there's 2D maps, which are really important. But then there's like these 3D things they've added on, which are immersive. And so like when the 2D version of it updates, that just like pulls through. That's not like a different app, you know. So I think that's really helpful. We learned that the hard way and it's really key. On the glasses side, one of the things we learned, again, obvious in retrospect, is like they've got to be glasses that you really want to wear first and foremost, you know,

55:23Ellis:like as it turns out. as it turns out you need to want we have to learn that lesson at snapchat as well yeah like this is important and you need to want to put them on your face and you need to want and and not just like the fashion part the fashion part is really important the other part that's really important is like does it support my prescription you know what if i wanted to have transition lenses you know what like there's there's a two billion people who wear you know glasses in the world and there's a whole industry built up around the customizations they want you know so you've got to support that stuff because there's a whole history behind it you know so um i think that's really important which is why we're you know we picked some great partners warby parker and gentle monster to start with that are gonna be working with us on on on all that so yeah but there's gonna be there's gonna be google first party glasses too well we haven't announced anything.

56:17Yeah. But I mean, I think it's a very fair question to go like, what would you even call it? Because right, like Google Glass carries a lot with it, right? Like there was the whole glass hole stigma. It was a very early product, you know, it was the right direction, but just I think way too early. And you were there at the time. And I'm sure you remember the company kind of going through that reaction to that product. Definitely. How does that inform the how you would approach doing Google Glasses in the future? I mean, I have a picture actually of myself. Like I didn't, I was able to, I wasn't working on Android at the time or Google Glass when it was back in the day, but I was around.

56:55And so I had a friend, I think, who was working on it and he lent me one to use. And the main thing I wanted to do was actually go out in public somewhere with it to experience that element of it, you know, just once to see. So my family did a trip to Disneyland and I was like, okay, like I can see taking really cool video or photos like on a roller coaster or something, you know, like with my kid, you know, like let's, let me, let me wear it. But I'm also going to get a lot of weird looks, you know, and I want to see how that feels, you know, and it didn't feel great, you know, it didn't feel great.

57:33And I think a lot of it was like some people you could tell they were curious. Like, what is that? You know, like I would say that was the majority of it because I think people are generally pretty nice. And they were just like, oh, I'm curious. Like maybe he has trouble seeing or maybe that's just like some new gadget. Like, what is that? I don't know what that is. But then there were definitely some people that were like, okay, you're one of those people, you know. And it didn't feel great. Um, so, you know, I think, I think it's really important that whatever you put out there, you, you, you, there's just as much a component here of technology, fashion, and also, you know, wearability, you know, and, and all those things together, besides the watch, there are very few things that, you know, you're going to wear on your body that are a piece of technology, um, for that many hours a day, right?

58:30It's a combination of many different disciplines together, and getting it right is super hard. It does feel like the world is more primed for that, though, with the success of the Meta Ray-Bans recently, the last year or two, right, shows that maybe we're in an era now where people are more comfortable with this idea. I think people are used to being watched and cameras being everywhere, more so than they were when Glass first came out, you know, all those years ago. So maybe there's also like a societal timing element of this that is bigger than anything you could do. Well, I mean, first of all, I think, you know, credit to the Meta folks.

59:04I mean, their initial glasses also don't look like, I mean, they look like glasses, you know? And so I think one of the things is like, if you didn't see the ring light up or read the side of it or whatever, you would just think that somebody had a pair of sunglasses on from a distance, you know? And so I think that just helps a lot, you know? I do think there will still be questions that everybody in the industry will have to wrestle with about data and what's being captured and when and how and all that. And I think there's two sides to that. One side of it is the bystander problem of what about this that's going on amongst us right now is being piped somewhere.

59:49And then the other is for you yourself. you know if you're walking around your house with them um you know what what is where is that data going and what where is it you know like one of the examples that i i give is like you're walking around the house and at the end right before you go out the door you don't know where your keys are if you've had the glasses on watching the whole time which is not a mode that i think is is by default but like you turn it on you know like you would be able to ask like gemini like hey where where are my keys because it would have seen you know what and and and it's like oh it's on your nightstand like oh okay thank you you know that's that's really helpful but also you know it's seeing a lot of things right and so i think these are all things that we're really discussing intently internally and making sure that you know we have we have answers to these things and you're right i think society is also evolving um but i think privacy is still obviously really really important.

1:00:51Definitely. And I think it is like, I don't think it's going away. And for us as product builders, we think it's important too. And so we're going to have to get all that right.

1:00:59Ellis:I know we're out of time here. So I have a very critical last question. What is your favorite Google internal corporate buzzword at the moment? We had Ryzon and we were talking about orthogonal. We've had some Googly episodes recently. Google has innovated so many words over the years. Okay, I'll give you a personal pet peeve, maybe, of a word that gets used sometimes. I think the word aligned is a pet peeve of mine. I'm not saying I haven't. I've used it. Okay. But, like, I think aligned sometimes is a way of saying that we've talked to each other so much that we have now taken the average of what we're all saying.

1:01:46and we can kind of pass it as something we all agree to, but we haven't really agreed. And sometimes in product building, like you really have to make starker, harder choices about stuff. So sometimes, sometimes, not always, the quality of the thing you're creating is inversely proportional to how many times people have said, we're totally aligned on this. Well, luckily we're not totally aligned on everything, Samir, but I think this was a great conversation. I do feel generally aligned, maybe not totally aligned. That's good. That's good. It was great talking to both of you. Congrats on all the progress with the pod.

1:02:25And I'm glad I could be a part of it. Thanks so much, Samir. Thanks for coming on.

1:02:27Ellis:Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks again, guys. See you soon. Thanks to Samir for coming on the show, the Android Prez. We're a new show. So please follow, like, subscribe everywhere you get podcasts at AccessPod. We're also on YouTube with full video. So check that out. If you liked this episode, leave a five-star review or a thumbs up or ideally both. And share with a friend. It would mean a lot. You can find my newsletter at sources.news. And you can find me at Hamburger on Twitter and at meaning.company. Access is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producer is Shiraz Dume. See you next week.

1:03:06Bye.

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1:03:54That's how you turn busy into business. Toast built for busy.