Beyond the Desk, An Office People Want to Use with Liam Spencer

0:00What was the hardest thing about leading it? The design? There was a lot of inherent pressure on the project, not necessarily just on me, I think on everyone because of what we do. Again we do this day in day out for our clients, but actually taking that step back and being client, designer, architect, contractor, there was naturally going to be some points where someone had to make a decision otherwise we would just end up going around in circles forever. So I think a lot of the hardest bits came out of pressure of it wanting to be right but knowing it would never be perfect three years after we've started this podcast we thought it was time to make sure that those lessons and the takeaways from our amazing guests were actually actionable something you can really put into place so we have launched show notes a bi-weekly email get into your inbox and that will give you the key headlines that is indexable findable actionable and we can really start to make a difference in creating healthy happy workspaces so the link's below or you can head to stansons.co.uk forward slash space look forward to seeing you sign up if you were given like to take one space out what would you what space would you say is the least useful.

1:21Least useful? Yeah. Wow, put me under pressure here. Again, I'm going to give you the full politician answer, which is we've only been here six weeks, right? Yeah. So I think people are still quite nicely finding their bit. Yeah. So this is actually a really good example. So each floor has almost like a front, middle and back. Okay. So So in terms of like where on like levels one and two, we've got our kind of like main working floors if you like. So at the front you've got a team and what we did during that briefing process was work out what each team uses the most. So what we found is having like an adjacent meeting room is very helpful.

2:12Having two person call pods, we find quite a lot that on our sort of like calls, it would be two people from the same team. So actually oversizing them slightly. So a couple of people can sit there and having more, I suppose, informal collaborative spaces. So spaces to get away from the desk, being able to plug in still, review things like that. I think if you, if I was pushed to give an answer, I think this area, which we sort of did as a bit of a, I guess, quieter library space is getting can use the least at the minute. But I think that's because there are so many other spaces that people are using.

2:56How many spaces are there in the building? So there's 200 of us in the company. So we've got about 196 fixed desks. Obviously Ben's got his own office, Mason's got his own office. There's probably about 410 working points. So again, these sort of like equipped train carriage style booths, these we really liked, I suppose like almost like that British Library style, you're slightly more enclosed for reviewing stuff. I would say that this sort of space, I'm an absolute sucker for those spaces and these spaces like off the main vibe, like so you're slightly detached and you can focus, I really struggle to focus yeah um but i still i need people and i need energy i'm even though i struggle to focus and i like being sometimes on my own i can't work from home like that's too much for me like i would go mental to like these sort of spaces where i feel connected yeah it's funny it's being the quietest that is where you would find me all day long yeah and i might have people getting used to it i think that's probably it i think there's a bit of people just working out where spaces are again people finding their like rhythm and yeah like tribe to things and then if go down here this is like the the desks that you mentioned like the 190 yeah so we've got the the sort of like fixed again we've got within third way we've got a number of different um i suppose like specialist led teams the way we're structured now i think again a lot of the market is in terms of packs or pods whatever yeah yeah but ours are led by people that i guess have different So Trish and her team are very West End private equity focused, which is reflected in a lot of the work they do.

4:44And actually while we didn't want to create a patchwork, this is a good example as a room that Trish and her team slightly edited this one to be a bit more, again, it's finishes like from an acoustic perspective, more of the kind of like stretched fabric, the cork walls, that feeling. again if you could sort of smell on the video it's like actually having that like nicer smell as you walk in marble insets again coming through these like little design languages that have been picked up so thoughtfully and in the smallest of detail yeah and i think as internal meeting rooms i think like the color yeah what's quite funny is actually been able to sort of like play around a bit and And yeah, so having that, it's quite fun.

5:30The building on like level one and two is almost like eye shaped. So you end up with these sort of like softer areas, sort of like just breaking up the teams a little bit. So on level one and two, we've got a smaller tee point. So actually having the, like not necessarily competing with what's downstairs, but actually just been able to get like water, tea, coffee, things like that. um it's quite key again from the investment point of view this was like a really really big one so um the building had or has a front and rear staircase yeah um which were very generous as they were but for us what we realized what was great in our old office is that people had to leave through the middle so as in like through the sort of central space there were almost like no back doors.

6:23And I don't think that's a case of saying that people can't go home. It was just actually really nice culturally that as you were walking out, someone would be like, I'll see you tomorrow. Like you chat. And again, it sounds so staged, but I think it's really important to do that. So what we made the decision to do is hunch the central staircase from ground to second. So it connects the key studio levels. And actually, again, from a seeing people use it point of view it's great that the investment's been worth it that like actually seeing people going up and down bumping into people and there's these lights yeah so it's a little brand nod again we're quite i don't think we're as shouty as a brand as we used to be yeah but actually the wolf has always been part of our heritage and i think in as we move forward you'll probably see a bit less of it but actually just as a yeah I guess a heritage nod in plan obviously picks out but as it drapes down the stairs you sort of lose it so it's quite nice again what we can use to sort of speak to clients about right yeah no you don't see it straight away but once you've seen it it's nice to know it was there yeah it's just been thought about I guess and again as we look at like finishes on like the flooring, it's a lot of, you asked downstairs about like products and cost and things like that.

7:45These are things that we would specify for clients. So the sort of engineered timbers, the sort of like bolon woven fabrics, things like that. Again, it's been able to sort of like showcase, we've got like a nice like guide to the office. So the designers can use it in terms of if they're looking for something. So like, again, from an MEP perspective, the stuff here is ceiling, the stuff through the middle is perimeter. So you've always got that. If you're trying to describe something, you can be like, oh, actually it's on level two rear, whatever. And then again, if we're just looking at contrasting meeting rooms, I think it's quite a lot of fun here in terms of actually being just a lot more playful with furniture.

8:29Yeah. Has a totally different feel. it's exactly the same footprint of room, but we're just able to sort of, yeah, I guess describe that. It's amazing how the colour and just, yeah, shapes and materials used. Yeah. It's a different vibe.

8:53Really boring point, but the doors are quite fun because they're aluminium fire doors, so again pretty cost effective but we had the handles custom built for them so we could almost showcase to a client like you don't need to spend thousands and thousands and thousands on the system but actually that bit that you touch and you sort of like feel having that done in and kind of steel is quite cool yeah it's nice it's just those clever shortcuts I always and and not shortcut in a bad way but I always find that creativity doesn't lean into money necessarily. It's clever application, thoughtful application, creative.

9:38Yeah, it's things like that are just such a good example. Yeah, I think that's a nice one. So level three, which is like the top floor, one of the key things we've sort of lent into is, as a business, we're quite client obsessed. So actually having an area that, again, works really nicely with the ground floor, so the boardroom and those two rooms, but at this level, sort of utilizing that kind of curved glass, again, a bit more theatre. This was probably one of the most expensive things that went into the building, to be honest. How much did this cost? I wouldn't know off the top of my head, I'd probably be told off for telling you.

10:19But what you get here is like a really nice, again, if we contrast to that boardroom, you're in the kind of like rooftops of Clerkenwell, Ingersoll factory, which is like such a beautiful sort of staple of, I guess, old Clerkenwell. But it just gives us that optionality, right? In terms of hosting meetings in the right sort of space. Yeah, you've also got the, again, if you're doing finishes, you've just got the natural light, haven't you? Yeah. It's lovely. It's really nice. And then through here, we obviously pitch competitively a lot. So having an area that we can really sort of just take over for, I guess, presentations, for bringing clients in, like getting them quite immersed into an idea.

11:14How many people from the client come, like, traditionally? I think, like, when we're doing... I mean, it really varies. I think we're seeing a massive uptick in people being in person, which is great. Yeah, yeah. We were actually talking about this the other day, that there's a lot less, I guess, hybrid requirements coming through at the minute, which is interesting. But yeah, this space could easily cater for 20, 30 people. got a presentation later of about that number um but having the ability again what we really tried to do here was drill into how we use it so what we knew from our previous space is a lot of people like to sit at that level but the people that are maybe slightly fringier to the meeting or the professional teams might just want to perch at the back and just sort of take notes things like that so catering for that's quite nice and i think that's exactly why we put this space in because these two are designed to sort of work perfectly together.

12:12So actually having a kitchen catering space that can sort of support that. So from a host perspective, as we bring people up, we can have this set out as, again, yeah, food, catering, coffees, things like that. But to your point about popping in and out, you're not captive in a dark room, right? Yeah, even if you aren't hopping in and out, just the claustrophobic feeling of not being able, even if you just need to look. Yeah. You can do it without disturbing and it just feels mindful. Yeah. Yeah. And this is your catering space. Yeah. What's through that door? Or don't I ask? So more kind of like client toilets.

12:56Again, we've got about 32 or something toilets across the building. All of the sets are different. So the idea here was again showcasing what can be done with slightly more luxe finishes, so real marbles, sort of fluted Corian, things like that. It's just that, again, really drilling into how people think. There's always that old joke on there about people making decisions on the toilet. You did something in your toilets in your old place, didn't you? didn't you do something with your toilets in the old place i mean yeah they were pretty nasty in the old place but yeah we've done toilets with places yeah developing world developing countries and we still do that and but i think more from a principal's perspective this was very much about if you are stepping out of that meeting to go to the toilet it's a bit time to think you don't want that thinking time to be the time where the client says oh yeah these guys aren't very good.

13:59So actually it's worth the investment. I'll keep this room as a secret for anyone who visits. I like that. By the way, there's a secret in that room. I have no idea what it is. I love this little artwork pieces. I've really started looking at them now. Yeah, it's really cool. I didn't know they all cast them for you. You did them. It really doesn't force it down your throat either in terms of the core values. It feels quite natural in a way, which is... Yes. It's done in a playful way. And we're now going on to the roof terrace, which is bloody massive. So we extended... These are new stairs that came up.

14:42We obviously brought the lift up, which is quite an important thing. So all the spaces in the entire office are accessible, which is really good. And then this is probably my favourite space for a number of different reasons. Wow. One, I'm emotionally invested in the plants. Someone's got to be. Someone's got to be. We have an irrigation system, but obviously we're going through a drought at the minute, which is tricky. So I know it sounds a bit like performative and fake, but I genuinely come up here every morning to water my pots. But what's really nice, again, a little bit like the gym, seeing this space get used.

15:18This is busy. So busy, but busy at different times. When's the busiest? Lunch is obviously like very popular, but what's really nice about a lot of the teams, because we have very autonomous teams, they'll be doing client events up here. Some of our BD and I suppose events team have put on fitness classes up here. Okay. So part of the design of the whole space, we work with a really cool landscape team that we actually found through house you know the website that you use for like doing resi stuff yeah i know yeah because one of the big things was we've worked with a lot of like landscape designers in the past but it's that d &b element that just didn't click so yeah i just sent these guys a message and just said do you fancy doing a six and a half thousand square foot roof terrace and they were great really really good absolutely sure i like these little nooks by the way so i'm distracted by them.

16:16Yeah they're really deliberate. Yeah I can you can tell they're really like thoughtfully done. Yeah so the area back here we left deliberately open so the idea being that we can clear all this sort of like soft stuff away and we have yoga classes we have stretch classes again it's those little sort of incidental things that we found is that when we first looked around the building the trees weren't green but what's really really like great is you're almost in it's like go ape you know like when you're in the um in the tree kind of it's some holidays yeah yeah um but actually having that moment where you're in like a tree canopy again it's over poetic but like at this end of the building you could be anywhere right it's yeah you're obviously in an urban setting but it feels very green our veg patch has gone absolutely crazy it's actually vegetables.

17:08Yeah, so this is what I fell out with the landscape guys about because I thought it was really important and they had different views on it. But we're starting to get tomatoes. We've got courgettes coming through there. I think someone took the spinach that's under here, which is quite nice. I think it's the squash that's gone absolutely crazy. Carrots. That's cool. Like about four carrots, but that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. As long as it's a salad. At this point, I've got the biggest office, I don't know if you call it office envy or rooftop envy. At this point right now. Yeah. It's just absolutely like paradise.

17:50It is really nice, yeah. You've got the buildings, nature. Yeah. It smells amazing. Another thing, AI, you can bring smell through. Yeah. People can just sniff their phone screen. You can see the honeybees, which is great. There are quite a lot of butterflies up here as well, which is cool. I mean, should we just do a series about the, I think there's 501 plants up here. You've got a sound system. We've got a sound system. Again, from an events perspective, this thing was quite a useful addition. And it was very much led by a couple of different things that you actually, from a planning perspective, they really wanted the shelter.

18:33So initially when we were sort of going through that planning process, we were working out whether we should actually have a room up here, but we didn't want, I suppose, the massing to be a problem for the project. Obviously we wanted the facade replacement. We really wanted this as a roof terrace. And we're surrounded, well, good and bad thing about this area of Clark and Well is you've got lot of residential, which is cool because you're not like bang in the middle of like the officey bit, but at the same time it means we have to be sensitive to our neighbors, which I think is important. But it meant that as we were going through this process, we were sort of playing around with what this should be.

19:14So it's a fully functioning kitchen, got fridges and I'm sure there's probably about three beers in here based on... I don't know, it's a bit more. Yeah, we've got a few. And then this thing's quite cool. It's a similar system to what we put into a few of our projects, so it all can fall back. I mean, I think at the minute you obviously want it as open as possible, as close as possible rather for the shade, but it just means for those, maybe when it drops five, 10 degrees or so we can actually have it open. Bring clients up here, do yoga up here, people who have lunch up here, people who work here as much?

19:49Yeah, there's a bit of like, again, this area gets quite a lot of work. We've equipped it with like two screens. So you've got the screen at that end, which is more about, I suppose, events. So we had Wimbledon on up there when we first moved in, which is nice. The screen here is like fully functional and linked to sort of the server. So actually, if we were doing presentations up here, this would be the area for it. I think it's just that nice little bit after a meeting. Again, really drilling into how we work and how we want to win, how we want to sort of, I guess, be with our clients. One of our big things is that client retention and clients coming with us on the journey and us going on their journey.

20:34So actually spending time up here is pretty nice. Yeah. What's the one thing that you've had clients saying since you brought them that, it's the overriding message. Up here? Yeah. I think, I mean, people love the plants, right? I think that's a big one, but actually just, I think you pointed out, like it is quite still up here, like you're in the middle of Farringdon, you've got that like view across the top, which is quite cool. Yeah, I think there's just something about the whole journey. And again, it sounds like over poetic, but it absolutely isn't. It's that having a range of spaces to do different things in.

21:14We're not trying to do everything in a boardroom. We're not trying to do everything around the table. It's like, if we want to have a chat with a client or even like our team, right? And it's a certain type of chat, you could bring them up here. So it's using the different spaces for what they're intended for. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's been the nicest bit. It's like that freedom to play, freedom to sort of think a bit. Rooftops are fun anyway, aren't they? Because you sort of, you get a slightly different like vantage point for everything. What's quite cool. There's a couple of things in terms of, as we look out, like again, I'll bang on about being Soul Factory for months if you want me to.

21:57At first we weren't really sure about like, obviously, because we're surrounded by a lot of estates and towers. It's like from a viewpoint, should we have a bit more sort of like tall plants? But then someone actually pointed out that that's the tower from the front cover of original pirate material by the streets. And all of a sudden it's gone from an eyesore to like an absolute cultural classic. And it's probably the first thing we point out. And then the second one is if you look through the gap there, you can sort of see the London eye and the building with like the flag on top, that's the top of the houses of parliament.

22:32and it just doesn't feel like it should be that close feels like one of those like sort of hashtag london sort of like mid-2000s film where like you know you jump in and out of black cabs and the phone boxes and things like that but in the chimneys you're in the chimneys yeah it's quite mary poppins yeah very i like i like that and even just the colors that have been used in the furniture yeah again this is where like you asked downstairs about who designed it like uh But this is where I'm, what's nice about design, I hated the color scheme up here at first when they proposed it. And I thought I wanted it quite like Ibiza chill out vibes, like whites, timbers, things like that.

23:12But I got overruled, which was absolutely the right decision. And actually, yeah, it's great because the plants are obviously really colorful. A lot of them are evergreen as well. So seasonally they'll change. and so actually having these like quite fun sort of like pops of color actually does work really well what's nice is it's this nod to this red oxide again yeah i'm just seeing this like really thoughtful like i never feel like i've left a bit although i was just saying that every space feels completely different you've got a different like psychological being um but you're also always in the same space.

23:49It's really weird to explain feeling. I mean, it's a bit punchline, isn't it? But like, there's that psychological red thread, kind of like theory about like, what is the thing that goes through something that ties things together. And I think while we didn't deliberately make it red, that has actually been the thing that there's almost like a reminder as you go through and a familiarity to things that that's quite nice. Yeah, that's cool. Amazing. Thank you, Liam. it's so good to it's so good to see it all what was the hardest thing about leading it the design there's a lot of inherent pressure on the project not necessarily just on me i think on everyone because because of what we do yeah so like again we do this day in day out for our clients yeah um but actually taking that step back and being client designer architect contractor there was naturally going to be some points where someone had to make a decision otherwise we would just end up going around in circles forever so I think a lot of the hardest bits came out of pressure of it wanting to be right but knowing it would never be perfect yeah yeah if that makes sense yeah letting go of perfection letting go of perfection and just knowing that we'll grow into it we will develop we want spaces again something Ben said right at the start of the project about that kind of humility.

25:13We didn't, we want the space to be great. We want the space to represent who we are, the quality we, I suppose, portray. But we didn't want it to be showy. We didn't want it to be ostentatious, things like that. And actually striking that balance is quite hard sometimes because your natural instinct, again, going back to your million pound question, you could just throw marble at it. You could just throw gold leaf at it, all that sort of stuff, right? But that wasn't the right answer. So I think the hard bit was always striking those balances between what was right for the project, what was right for us as a business and also how people could have hated it, right?

25:52Yeah. Was there a moment in the process where you actually doubted yourself? I think with a lot of construction projects, there's that moment about three months out where things don't look very finished and you're starting to doubt your entire existence and your job future of your career um that that moment aside i think i was actually away for the last sort of two weeks of the completion like my first day back was everyone's first day here oh wow brave yeah brave was one word for it um i think other people use different words for that Or more colourful. So I actually came in on the Sunday with my kids, with Charlotte, to actually just have a look around.

26:43And almost not from a, I couldn't have done anything at that point, but just to sort of sense check. And it was really nice because a lot of the project team came on that Sunday. And it was really sweet. We were sort of walking around just being like, because it had been a long process of thinking about it, actually been able to walk through the space and I actually don't get bored of this like walking people around it now did anyone cry when it opened up I think I think a few people were actually like really emotional some people who'd been here a really long time um I don't think she'd necessarily get upset if I point out so like Lindsay who's our head of sustainability yeah she's been with the business longer than I have I think maybe like 13 years or so.

27:29When she came up here for the first time, because of what she does in the business now about really pushing the right things from a sustainable perspective, she got quite, I think, overwhelmed by just how far we'd come as a business. And I think butterflies just flying past at exactly the right times. I think that moment of... and actually Ben and Mason summed it at that there's nothing we can't do from here now yeah yeah and i think in the sense that emotion is just passion isn't it it's just pride it's like it's in the healthiest way yeah and i think if you don't have that in design you're slightly missing yeah the point i think the people who maybe go over the top in terms of saying like i don't do it for any sort of we use the expression ego free a lot which i think is important so being able to sort of listen to clients being able to know that sometimes it's not always what you think looks great that a client wants i think that's important but having the pride in whatever you do is key yeah 100 and i think that yeah i think you're right like being proud of something isn't a bad thing is it no no it can be a healthy thing for sure and if you don't give a massive shit about it then who is going to like how can the client care how can anyone care if you're the person that's leading the whole sort of concept which ultimately changes how hundreds of people think and feel and behave on a daily basis.

28:57If you're not injecting your energy and passion into that, then you're really starting off on a back foot, aren't you? 100%. I don't think, again, you hit the nail on the head. It's like what we're doing for clients, right? It would be quite ironic if we didn't care. But equally, what this place has showcased already in six weeks, we're quite an in-person business. yeah we've always had that natural sort of cadence of monday to friday people want to be here yeah this is just giving it a whole new level people going to the gym people up here last night watching the eclipse things like that it's um yeah so much stuff you can do up here yeah it's just um i guess it is that work-life balance and the blur give it a like nice backdrop a nice theater set for it to happen it's um i would love to see how it is in three five years like how work changes how it evolves how people change how it evolves how it shapes with them it'll be really interesting have you considered that like how it will there's a bit of like flexibility baked in i think we we're working areas quite hard in terms of those middle levels of studio for the amount of desks we want yeah we're a 160 million pound business now with really deliberate like growth plans to 200 250 300 that naturally will mean more people i think we've kind of reside ourselves to this building probably won't be the forever forever home in terms of in 10 years time if the sort of growth goes the way we want but as a base right now I think it's pretty it's pretty good well thank you so much it's a phenomenal tour um it's got so much energy so much vibes so much emotion attached to it yeah I feel it and it's just been so well considered and delivered I hope and I wish every success for you in this.

30:46I appreciate it man. Good man. Nice for coming around. Thank you. Brilliant. I find it simply fascinating how physical space can totally change how we think, feel and behave. Meaning it can pause distractions, it can connect us, it can mean we do our very best work and that's where Stansons steps in. This show is created by Stansons who design, make and install curtains and acoustics to create the perfect environment for people to flourish and do their very best work. You've got a project on? We know how it feels. Reach out and we'll start to talk.