Building London's Fastest-Growing Design Studio: The Whitepaper Story with Victoria Dixon

0:00It has paid off and I think if you're someone that's maybe sat in a job and feeling a little bit stale or feeling like it's maybe not the right path for you, people aren't necessarily going to always bring opportunities to you. You need to be bold enough to switch lanes. So I would say go for it and just keep going. hi everybody this episode i've actually wanted to do for a really long like when i say really long i mean like a year and a bit so um the fact that we're doing it now i'm super excited i've got victoria dixon head of creative white paper if you've seen white paper you'll know like oh like they're everything about that spits out that business is dreamy perfection instagram like wizardry but and if you don't know them definitely start following that company because the inspiration the car even the pictures make you feel this sense of like oh so yeah it's very cool they've recently um been awarded like fastest growing business um sunday times award we'll dig into that but yeah victoria dixon's head of creative so if you think about everything like brand socials there's a design um lead everything that's coming out of that from interiors to all across the business and the brand that's who i'm talking to so it's massive and i'm really excited so let's dig in welcome victoria thank you for joining yes thank you for having me i mean wow what an introduction that's a quite exuberating start so i think you must have heard that a lot you must know that the stuff that yeah like i said the stuff that comes out of white paper is next level yeah no i mean yeah it's um we definitely got a lot of really good feedback And I think what's really cool is from the start, maybe we're like quite unknown, definitely like underdogs or certainly less established when it's a small team.

1:49And I think over the past few years, we've kind of made the transition now into being thrown into the mix much more. And, you know, with the team growth, we're definitely looking at some really top tier projects and the whole thing has been able to evolve. so yeah very exciting massive and i think winning that sunday times i mean yeah yeah well how long ago did you get that yeah really recently i think just uh like a couple of weeks ago so um pretty big big news to hear was that a shock for your like team were you blown away or did you know it was coming yeah no i'd like completely unexpected for the team um and yeah we were kind of just chatting earlier about it but we've I guess you see the momentum build like from the team within you see the team grow you see the project expand but then that's just kind of in our own little bubble where then to know that externally compared to I guess all these they're really forward-thinking and innovative companies out there that you're also um doing such amazing things I think it's quite validating and definitely a time to kind of reflect and celebrate yeah I suppose it is validating isn't it that's kind of like yeah okay it's not just me that thinks it's wicked like and I guess like you can really you know get caught up in being busy like everyone is so busy and work so hard um but then to kind of know that it's what's actually coming out of that and the success and like being you know more people hearing about us and more people being interested by what we do I think we've always been probably a bit more on the mysterious side and kind of just worked with people we've known so now you definitely just find more and more opportunities just kind of landing our way so it's very very exciting so everyone so exciting so if I was to whiz the time back like you were um what do you call it like not like a regular like design and build firm like one of the big names you've been there you've done that um and then when you transitioned to white paper was it a startup or like how early days was it for I I've actually I think this week is my six years um at white paper which is really cool um the company was established eight years ago so it's kind of relatively new I think in the in the world although you know when when I started it was so different there was a handful of us all kind of sat around a table um so much much smaller so very different to the company I was at before where as you said like big company really established really had a name for itself um so yeah making that kind of transition over was um was I guess a bit of a leap yeah what did that feel like like your first week or month or whatever at this like little white paper you didn't know it's going to go on and win these Sunday Times awards back then yeah I think uh it's hard because my time before working at a big company I think I reflect on it so positively like what I what I learned and the skills are picked up and also the amount of people you work with and you know you you meet designers from all around the world which I think is a really cool thing about working in a big company it's like you've got people from all these different countries and how they do things and I think the speed that you learn is is really cool but also not necessarily like people out to kind of help you and hold your hand because everyone is very caught up in their own way too so I think that that kind of essence of the the close-knit community is can be quite different in a in a big company um and I think my time there I kind of had such positive times and actually really loved it but I started to realize that I kind of was maybe being a bit limited in my growth and probably wanted to just sort of explore new things and challenge myself and I think it felt like the right time to maybe see what was out there and so yeah opportunity came up to to kind of have a conversation and did my research and realized it very small company but had an interview with the two founders and I think particularly if you're having an interview and it's like the actual you know founding people that created the company who are there they're interested in you and they they really kind of want to hear more and they're genuinely excited about what you're sort of saying that it kind of felt like a no-brainer it was like I feel kind of seen and I feel like valued immediately and I could also see they had they you know super ambitious super passionate about what they wanted to do like big dreams so I think the energy felt very different it felt um very dynamic and you know it was a move over to kind of a much more vibrant area shoreditch so it i think looking back it was it was a big leak but it was definitely just a go with your gut kind of feeling and it all felt right so yeah that's quite an important instinct though because you said it quite casually there which is which is cool i'm glad you kind of got that trust in yourself and i believe in yourself but a lot of people like might be where you were six years ago yeah and think about that freelance thinking about breaking into smaller bits like where they can maybe have more impact or be more seen or something like whatever that might be or it might be the reverse someone might be in a small business thinking up going up to a bigger one and i get it there's not a right and a wrong it's just your personal journey but that gut how did you develop that how do you trust that what do you look for in yourself like to do that yeah I think I think it it is really interesting and like you said it's probably hopefully quite a relatable topic people knowing when the time is right um but I think even from early on I just I've always been quite risky and quite bold and I think it is just like trusting trusting your gut and know knowing when it's the right the right kind of feeling comes along so if I kind of think back so even the university I started off studying architecture um and you know architecture is like the most phenomenal field but you don't you know you don't do it at gcse you don't do it a level so even kind of starting off day one it's like you're taking a bit of a risk in that but I quite quickly realized it was actually interiors I was really passionate about so after the after my first year I sort of switched over and I remember at the time like a lot of people thinking oh you're going from quite a prestigious course or what's kind of known as this like you know really amazing industry like interiors I I think people still think that it's picking cushions and colours and it's kind of not really understanding what's involved, especially in the construction industry.

9:19And then so I kind of made that decision to switch. And then at the end of uni, kind of got an opportunity to move to London, which I just kind of thought yeah this is amazing I had no comfort blanket in London I need no one all of my family is up north and literally no friends I just sort of made the decision I'm going um I got offered a really cool internship that at the time I just felt like what an amazing opportunity so it again just a bit of a no-brainer I just sort of hopped in a chain and moved myself to London um and then other kind of like twists and turns and I think like commercial commercial design was never something I sort of woke up and was like this is what I'm gonna do every day um but I think I was just had a lot of different opportunities and I even I kind of took internships that were unpaid but because they were just at companies that I like really really admired so So I was, I kind of just always went with my gut and just thought about like the next move.

10:30It was never like the big picture. It was never like, okay, this is where I want to be and this is where I want to be doing. It was just like one strong move at a time. And I think like brick by brick, you kind of just, your path gets laid. But I also appreciate that that was much earlier on in my career when it can be tricky if, you know, there is more on the line and knowing when that knowing yeah if there's if there's kind of more at stake it can be harder to make that decision but I think just go with your gut yeah I definitely am like getting this vibe of like kind of adventure kind of like bold moves like experimenting and it's paid off for you yeah it has paid off um and I think you know if you're someone that's maybe sat in a job and feeling a little bit stale or feeling like it's maybe not the right path for you um you know people aren't necessarily going to like always bring opportunities to you you need to be bold enough to switch lanes so i would just say go for it and just just keep going it's a really strong message especially like this year which feels like the year of freelancers like there's a lot of people seem to be making these switches to smaller companies or own setting up their own thing I'm sure it's happening the other way but I just feel like there's a lot of moving around um I suppose it's always been like that but it's quite it's quite exciting times for people I think like you know you've got to dream big and um like I said people aren't going to carve your path for you so you need to kind of make sure you're you're happy in what you're doing you're feeling valued and um if you're not then I think shake it up yeah no wicked and you sat around the table um when you were early days of white paper you're all around one table you said and i now you're sort of planning something wildly different from that in terms of what your space is now and like the growth for white paper do you miss anything about those little startup days just a few of you two years in yeah no i definitely i mean in some ways it's easier when you're a small team um but I guess there's a kind of scrappy charm so like everyone wearing all the hats and you know you're doing everything you're all mucking in together I think that's probably um like something that has kind of like stayed with the with the company and the culture as you grow but I think yeah the I guess we all just having to kind of like muck in and knowing each other like inside out so well what's really cool also is the people that were around that table when I started are all still there and they're all in leadership roles so as a company it's definitely been something that's promote within and really like stay um kind of stay true to your employees so all of those people are still there um and so yeah I think I kind of miss miss uh well I don't know if I missed all of the wearing multiple hats that was that was a difficult time yeah it was nice you still got those core like relationships those people that you kind of been with six years you start to really kind of pillars of strength really isn't it yeah I think like the underlying thing was everyone just like worked so hard and was um you know had that kind of integrity and you know to no no job was too big or small so I think when you have employees like that that are just like willing to show the grit and kind of put the hours in and be so determined that um that is kind of contagious and um I think that's sets the kind of the ethos and the the company tongue and what's changed now now you're six years down the line you've lost you've lost some of that what is that how is it different it's hard you have to kind of you have to work really hard to maintain the spirit as the as the company grows not make not maintain the spirit but maintain i guess that like original cool culture that is kind of set out um but i would say what's changed is just the scale the you know the team grows naturally but with that the the expertise grows you can you know you can invite in that that skill set that's only going to bolster um and it enables bigger projects so the kind of um all the stuff we set out to do I feel like we're still doing it's just now on a bigger scale and you have more people to kind of like support that dream and to bring to bring in their own flair as well um so yeah it still kind of feels like the same company even though there's just more like there's just more people invited yeah do you do agree with that as it gets a bit bigger and you've got different dynamics and mindsets it's actually really healthy like challenges you even as a leader doesn't it like yeah so they start to looking at things differently and open your eyes to but then again yeah the culture can get watered down very quick unless you're yeah constantly working at it I think that massively comes down to you know your leadership team um supporting that culture and you know driving driving forward the ethos too of like this is how we do things and you know if it is if it's in a positive way people do kind of need to really buy into it like you're gonna definitely in our company stand out like a sore thumb if you come in and you know are not collaborative and thinking or putting people first or like standing together as a team because that is I think that's what makes up a really good company so yeah you um you kind of have to just buy into it or else it's it's not gonna work it's not gonna work well that's great that's really great and do you still get to be hands-on creative like the stuff that's coming out how much influence are you having on that or is it more just only strategic work you do yeah um I'm really lucky that it is very very hands-on creative I've been able to kind of tailor my job to just um basically be creative vision which is super cool and we have that is like kind of the perfect job it's a dream right it's the dream job um and obviously it comes with you know stress and pressure and um it's definitely every day is completely different um but that's kind of the beauty of it as well but like you said the team yeah it's grown so much i think as a design team we're uh 17 people the company is you know over 50 people now so it's a big it's a big share of the team is creatives um so it's more about having kind of oversight you need to know about everything you have to really ensure that like quality is there and make sure you can spend time with everyone when I say 17 designers I also you know that's including like technical and graphics and everyone but as an interior design team it's about just like working very closely with them um and obviously you can't be hands-on doing everything yourself and also it's I don't know if it's all it no one wants it to just kind of all be my design and my vision anyway it's really trusting in the team and getting getting the most out of them and kind of just bolstering and giving them the support and guidance um so yeah it's it's very cool I definitely love what I do yeah I do think everything that comes out of white paper has got like a white paper magic yeah to it it's got a we hear that a lot there's just the thing I reckon I could see a picture of your project not know it was you not know it was white papers yeah like in terms of it's not written on it and I'll be like yeah that's a white paper project yeah is that something that you embrace and that you're proud of and that you want people to come to you because they want that look or are you trying to break that and diversify from that and do more different looks and feels or is it just what people ask for I think um so we definitely I think I mean firstly thank you saying that we care so much about each of our projects and I think really ultimately it comes down to like I'm very biased but I think we just have the best design team I think everyone is just so passionate they all bring their own kind of flair and personality so I think where the magic comes from is the kind of attention to detail we spend a lot of time up front thinking about concepts and we we really don't want kind of things to just like feel the same but I think it's like that attention to detail no matter what size of project you know you have an interior designer really making sure that the rugs and the artwork and the cushions but also the ceiling coordination there's there's so much the the lighting and or like everything has to be curated as a full scheme so that really like really good design only kind of comes with having that attention to detail um so I think we're just very passionate about each of our projects and when you compare it maybe to other companies where it's like it needs to all be done quite quickly and um obviously it's a fast-paced industry i think we we really kind of hold on to where possible getting as much detail detail in there i do think you have quite a boutique feel yeah in a complimentary way not like small i don't mean that i mean like it's got like kind of handcrafted kind of love feel to it and it's all very yeah aesthetic and calming um yeah I think it's the boutique bit that kind of gives it that kind of magic sparkle yeah I think where where commercial workplace has definitely grown and I think you know hopefully we definitely feel like we're one of the leaders to kind of um make our mark in that is not having that kind of just like blanket approach to how things should be done from just like practical and functional it's about thinking about spaces that you're going to spend so much of your time in the office right it's like crazy when you think probably more time than you ever spend at home oh yeah so when you're designing these spaces obviously you know it has to work the functionality and the flow and that's kind of it's such a big part of it but it's almost like the base it's now thinking about okay how people are going to feel in the space and um just what's the atmosphere like is it is it cozy are they going to be comfortable having these kind of meetings and just the creating spaces that I think people want to be in and not just have to be in um yeah yeah I think that's um I'm so pondering you're like yeah food to thought it's so true though because like you You actually mentioned it earlier that people might think design is about choosing a few cushions and matching it to a rug.

22:12Yeah. And I so agree with you that people do feel like that. And it's so far from the truth. And I often am talking to people and I'm like, design is like a multifaceted skill set from psychology, like understanding behaviors, like exploring people's strengths and helping them flourish, whether they're extrovert, maybe neurodivergent in some ways. and there's like business processes and how you want people to feel and how you want people to move and how you want people to collaborate or maybe not collaborate or whatever it is and I'm like it's not a curtain or it's not a rug or it's not a wall finish it's like a it's like a psychology piece like almost and it's phenomenal when it works it's just like it's the impact it has on how people think and feel and behave it's massive and then obviously in turn like roi and stuff so which is why people do it but i just it's so what you said is just so hit like a hot button for me i'm like sorry like yeah it's like it's not it's so it's so important it's so key yeah i think like exactly that the the psychology and make it how you can how you can make someone feel in a space is just so important and also in in one space you can make people feel different emotions so you know you can create in a you know in your reception areas you might want it to feel really cozy and inviting and you might want that essence of your brand or whatever to come to hit you really hard as you kind of come through the door but you know open plan you might want it to feel like much more fresh and invigorating and you know you're going to be spending a lot of time there so it kind of can't feel as um kind of cozy and like all of these things but I think that's part of understanding that you know the client's brief and what they need and who they are as a company and what they also want their visitors to feel so yeah there's there's layers of uh I feel like a brief take is never just uh you know quantities on a on a spreadsheet which sometimes you get you really have to kind of dig into it and understand like who's coming to this space how do you want them to feel how does that reflect in the materiality and the colours and the lighting, like lighting is so important.

24:32How can you, you know, adapt that through the days? We want it to be really bright in the days. We want to be able to tone it down for different points or different people. And I think the industry, the more it looks at flexibility and adapting its surroundings too is, I mean, that's a whole kind of another topic. But, yeah, it's cool to understand that. you're such a big part of something someone's life yeah someone's success no it is like I always think that like a privilege to be able to touch people's lives because even now they go home how they from how they've been at work it will impact how they go home yeah and their relationships and like sleep their everything like it's the interior is so massive it's it's it's like an honor to be like touching such a massive I think going back to how you were saying, like the white paper style, I think a lot of it comes through like there's a real calmness.

25:34There's the tactile and the kind of feeling of like coziness, but and obviously not for every scheme, but I think it needs to foot us quite often. There's a big focus on do people feel like comfortable and calm in the workspace? Yeah. Is there a particular trend you're loving right now? so I think trends are really difficult in design because I love them and I'm you know reading the magazines and articles like I'm such a like a just kind of such a design lover that it's it's really cool to stay up to date with trends but I think you also have to really kind of know when like what does work and be able to pull like pallets together that are quite timeless and know how you can kind of just mix things up for people so that in, you know, five years' time, if they really want to shake things up, they're not having to pull everything out and stick it back together.

26:33But in saying that also, you know, not everyone's taste is the same, so you have to also be able to kind of work with the client's preferences and their palates and things like that. I would say more of not necessarily a trend that, not necessarily a trend but more of a movement is um moving I guess that more hospitality feel into the workplace so how people now and even that kind of residential um style that we just touched on making offices feel definitely more like how would you how you'd want your house or if you're going to go out for a coffee and things like that I think that's been a real you know post-pandemic movement for sure is now people are choosing to be in the office when they could be at home so um let's make sure again that the office space is um kind of really beautiful and not just a functional place i like that you mentioned the word movement though because i do agree trends are can be fleeting they can be unsustainable it can mean that you're ripping something out because it's out of fashion now and all that sort of thing which and i hear that like whilst it's exciting it can be detrimental but yeah when you talk about a movement like a shift in thinking like oh now spaces don't have to be gray floors and walls and white desks we can now actually incorporate something more that's not just a trend that's like people now changing how they work and it's the modern world so i'm really glad you said the word movement because that's massive like that is well that is what we're we're keeping up to date in a fresh modern adapted world yeah but it's not just a little like oh let's go with lime green because it came in like but it's like it's cool to explore like those things too you know you need to kind of just because you're a designer that loves a certain color palette and color way and materials and doesn't mean like you have to always use those things like you need to be able to switch up again and like love things but then know that that you might not love it in a few years but you might be you know sick of it too so yeah I think definitely focusing on movements and less so on just trends because they're cool right now and yeah you mentioned your team a lot and yeah that's great I'm glad you love your team and the culture must be huge to have the continuity of what's coming out what makes a great hire what do you look for if I'm looking for a job yes you're trying for a job I am um yeah I mean as I mentioned so we've grown from when I started there was only you know two designers um and now a big team so we've been myself and Meg who's head of design we've been kind of involved in hiring and handpicking each of those so it's really cool to kind of see you know a lot of those people also graduates who came to us with no experience and they're still with the business and um so we're quite fortunate to never really kind of like lost people they just sort of uh they stay there but in terms of what we look for I think you know fundamentally they have to have like the the kind of skill and um all of that is like baseline that they need to have that like technical technical um knowledge but for me more personally it's I think there's two things I think it's like meeting someone and how they come across in like quite an authentic manner so even in like a kind of 20-30 minute meeting with them do I really get a flavor of who they are and do I I actually think it's authentic and that can be really difficult in an interview situation because obviously you're putting on your best and you're aware that you're like presenting someone who presents.

30:28So that can be even scarier. But I think if I can really get a sense of, you know, does conversation flow very naturally and how like how are you holding yourself? That is really important to me. But then I think also like passion is just huge. we get so many cvs who have got like incredible experience and they've worked on all these big projects but then if they talk me through their portfolio and things like um and examples of work if if i don't feel like they're passionate about it it's just a non-starter i think and if you're if you're feeling that way well maybe you've worked at a company where you necessarily haven't have the most inspiring projects or you don't have those examples of work, my advice would be like do a passion project and just make something up, like curate something that does showcase your style and what you can do.

31:25And I definitely had to do that in the beginning when I had zero experience and I had, you know, I had nothing to show and I was trying to get a job as a junior. So I literally just got on SketchUp and made up a scheme and pulled together mood boards to because then you can talk about it with with you know passion and you can you can say why and where the inspiration came from and that's another big part to it I really I want to hear where like your inspirations come from even if it's a super flat scheme and you have no budget and there's you know the client wants this you need to be able to find a story and find the creativity in there because that is just the reality for this industry too like there's there isn't always going to be those like really amazing big schemes but if you can if you can take something quite baseline and show where your inspiration has come from I think that's so interesting and such a such a key skill to be able to carry over so yeah for me it's it's a lot about personality and less so about what you've kind of done I just want to I want to see that you're going to be able to talk through anything with a client and kind of really show them that you're the right person for the job yeah I think that is that is gold dust hearing that from header creative from the fastest growing sunday times award someone that's hiring flat out like we I do also hear and I've even had um junior designers on on this podcast and and they've been really enlightening talking about how challenging it is to get a job um in this industry how to break through and to be honest their points aligned exactly with you they were talking about being passionate but if you're looking for a job and you're not and you're applying and you're not getting through maybe you need to look at your portfolio what's exciting you what's giving you that kind of sparkle and that energy yeah because just make it up just do something just pretend and be like be transparent and don't you know don't say you've done something you haven't but it's more interesting to me to see like what you could do if the if the opportunity was endless or like even how you've you know you've taken a small opportunity but you've kind of spun off in one direction like that's way more interesting to see your capability and your your big dreams rather than what you've done today because you know we've had some really impressive CVs but it's that's just the spark isn't there so it's not worked out that's massive and is that any different to six years ago when you're hiring have you do you now is there anything you value more or something that's like grown on you or something that you maybe stopped looking for that you used to yeah I think hiring now is really difficult because again we have an amazing team um it's big boots to fill and I think people have to come in and also like each of the designers has their own that own personality their own flow and I also that is just what makes our team so great um but it's it's like are they open to also like working collaboratively we're a big share culture so even though you you kind of work on your project in I guess in silo independently all the designers sit together it's like a constant kind of flood of ideas which is is very cool um so I think it is sometimes thinking about like the team dynamic and what they'll bring and you know you never want to kind of bring people in with like an ego or someone that is maybe not gonna also fit into the wider team culture too um so there's definitely a there's a long list of boxes to tick which um it's definitely made hiring more difficult but um it's a very cool place to work so I can I can see why people people want to make the move yeah little plug bit and I like that but no I get it like because when when you're bigger they've got to kind of fit in in some ways but they still got to bring their personality in another way and it's about like juggling that right I guess yeah I don't want that answer to kind of be women like seen as you have to kind of do things our way like it's definitely about what like value you're going to bring to the team like that's huge um but I guess also we're just like the clients that we work with and have worked for a long time is like we really really value their relationships so and you know the wider team culture and how everyone everyone kind of really works together um to kind of achieve this goal it's you have to think about like multiple things it's not just how great they are as a designer it's like what are they bringing um what are they adding it's complimenting you isn't it it's like it's building up you and your team and white paper but it's still it's got to fit in yeah it makes sense yeah i totally get that and what's next oh what's next um next 12 months so what's next for you and anything big you're I came to do I think I guess the exciting part is like you never know like that's the really cool thing about this world is like the opportunities are just they just kind of have been bigger and bigger so I think for us it's you know we never say never be cool to maybe delve more into the sectors or I don't know maybe even do go international like let's dream big but I think personally for me it's just about maintaining like becoming a really a really strong leader of the team as well and making sure that and working really really closely just to continue to enable the other designers and be that be that person that they can kind of bounce their ideas off and be that support for them so I think yeah just as we move on to do bigger and bigger things I kind of naturally grow with the team too um but yeah I think just the exciting the exciting part is not knowing what's next it's just just being open-minded and being ready and um that's kind of goes all the way back to the start as to where it's like where you got to here by making bold decisions and not necessarily having a big vision and a simple straight line map it's about like rolling with the punches in a really positive way that sounds like a negative saying actually but it's no I didn't mean it to be rolling with the punches definitely so and yeah I think for you know going back to the kind of founders of the company I don't I don't know if they ever knew it was going to be where we're at now I think they just again made some really bold decisions and made some really good hires and um yeah it's all very exciting yeah one last question for you what's a book or a podcast you have read or are reading that you'd really recommend oh okay so I'm currently reading and I read a page every day the book called the daily stoic um so yeah so it's an interesting concept it's every day there's one page and every month there's a new topic um and it's just all about kind of like stoic mindset so how to I don't know if it's like a world that you're kind of familiar with no I'm definitely googling it yeah but it's cool it's just one page every day I also you know read alongside that like other books and stay up to with lots of articles but it's a really good either try and do it first thing in the morning or last thing at night and it's a really good way to set your tone for the day um there's like a little hidden message in each page almost like a meditation which um is really lovely and it's something to kind of reflect on or carry through um each of your days with you so i would recommend that to everyone very mindful very mindful yeah brilliant amazing well thank you victoria that's been like yeah gold dust hearing that from you the whole journey that growth the white paper magic what you're putting into the team what you look for from people i just think that's it's so exciting to hear from someone of your position and what you've achieved as well but also from like a white paper perspective in the brand as well so really appreciate it obviously um and i always say it but do rate the show do follow the show it helps the whole algorithm thing which i've got no idea how it works and does anybody but um anyway thank Thank you so much.

40:14And until next time. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. It's been so fun to chat.