Design Secrets That Pull You Into the Office: Mix 30 Under 30 Series

0:00Office is more than an office now. It's not a box you fit into. It's something that has to entice you to stay. And I think what you're saying is emotional. It needs to care about who's in it. It's not just walls that you're in for eight hours a day. It's something that you want to be in and you feel it looks after you as much as you're putting in the effort. I think it's that harmony between, yes, it's four walls and a desk, but actually there's so much more to it emotionally that you need to feel productive in a day. Yeah, definitely. me. Welcome to Spaced by Stanlison. I'm chatting to Tia Brooks, Peld and Rose.

0:32Interior designer? Yeah. Job role? We're in the landlord team. Right, there we go. So we've got she was a mixed 30 under 30 this year. And we've got Hannah. Is it Carson? Yes, it is. Really me. Strategist. I find a beat by the bottom of your email signature. Hannah, whatever. Yeah. Strategist at Mmosa. I am indeed. boom so we've got brilliant names here and like rising stars 2025 design and really exciting we've yeah we're just doing this whole mini series like picking into like the next gen how the office is going to be and i just love how these guys are just so casual when they just know what's coming up and that well they're shaping the future so hearing from them is massive so i'm going to really like get under the skin but kicking off welcome girls thank you so much thanks for having us thank you you're very welcome so what was it like when you got the end of that you like the award came through do you know it was coming was it a complete shock complete shock for me yeah my boss nominated me and i had no idea and then i think there was like a few months passed and then i got the email i was shocked yeah it was wicked though really chowed no no idea i think they didn't want to tell me just in case it didn't work out so yeah i was really really chapped it was cool amazing what do you do what's the first thing you did um told my team and they're very supportive and emailed my boss who's on that leave and said thanks for the nom did you go mental um i do early after june event yeah i thought i'd wait until the the day got the award and then yeah had a had a good celebration it's cool do you know what your nominate do you know why you win it like do you know what the um so the project don't really know i think it's It's about the person.

2:20So it's not actually about a project and such. It's more about how you contribute to the community or industry. I did kind of know. The way it kind of runs, what we did was they kind of picked someone internally that they want to kind of give this kind of recognition to. And I got that email and I just remember turning to my boss and going, shut up. Like, is this happening? And she was like, yeah, obviously it's not yet, but we want to put you forward. And I was like, okay. like absolutely excitement so how was you have to wait that was eight months before we found out no way and it was like do not say anything so i was like okay and i'm kind of really excited but couldn't tell anyone and then we found out a few days before it went live live and again really excited but couldn't tell anyone and then when the event happened i think i told everyone like and anyone I feel like I might have just gone guess what even to like my family they're like what does that mean I'm like yeah I went a bit nuts on the social media I thought why not let's just get it out LinkedIn obviously but then personal Insta it's got to be does your mum like love it or did she just ring you up at what the Insta's once I explained what it was now she gets it but in the beginning she was like what does this mean I was like it's just really good like don't worry it means good things i had a funny someone thought it was forbes 30 under 30 i was like not yet the slightly different and yeah and you haven't got long have you i know we've got to get cracking and we actually had this discussion yesterday like we should be like we should be for the next one yeah come on 30 do you know i mean yeah i know i've missed both for them both because I'm not a 30 so a few colleagues also said is there going to be a 40 under 40 50 under 50 so maybe we should go back to mix and say there's there's interest and that quite a lot of people didn't it like 50 people yeah there's probably not 50 people in the industry yeah that's free I think it's a really young industry like really like female industry right definitely I'd say so so like think 30 under 30 works yes maybe let's keep at that 20 under 20 would be wicked.

4:32That would be cool. That would be really interesting. Yeah. That would be better because I think like there's probably some real grads that just need a little bit of... Yeah, actually, how did you get on getting your job? Like when you came out graduating, how was that like? So it was, yeah, it was good. So I did a bit of work experience before graduating. And that was my intro to workplace strategy and design. Did that at KKS, who were KKS Savills. Yeah. and it's really sweet I saw bumped into a few of them at the event and yeah it's because they I I was there for two summers before I graduated so I was like really keen I was like this is the industry I want to be in and from that from connections I got my first job at Woodles yeah that's how I'm yes when we met yeah yeah yeah okay and then a couple years passed and then was I was a designer at this point so then went into designer and Moser and then a couple years into that I turned to be a strategist that's me now so is it hard to get into Whittles like as a junior or whatever is that tough it was yeah I mean I think I got lucky as probably that's what everyone says with their first job but it just hit COVID the it was um I got my job October 2020 so I think COVID had just sort of settled in so not many people were hiring so it was quite a tough time I think for everyone who just graduated then but yeah I got backy yeah shout out to all them thanks so how was it for you getting into industry I had quite a lot of let's say patchy experience I actually went to Pelton Rose for two weeks when I was in high school for work experience really kind of random story I knew someone at a barbecue and they were like hey I know someone that works here your daughter likes this is my mum as well your daughter likes interior design does she want to try it like two weeks I was like okay me like what 16 going into this place being like wow this is an office and this is what's going on and I just love the environment like we're in a completely different building now we've renovated but the people there like genuinely didn't disregard me it was like I want to show you what we're doing and at that point I was like okay I think I like this industry so carried on through school and then I stayed in contact you know people say stay in touch I really did oh good tip there yeah I'm listening stay in to hatch and uh I was like during uni and I said oh can I can I come back and I'm like yeah yeah why not between the summers and I stayed for seven weeks and did my whole kind of summer holidays I absolutely loved it where I got intro to the landlord team and then I submitted at uni and I got a LinkedIn message from Kev who is now my boss and he was quite simply do you want to work with us like you'd be great to fit with the team and I was like yeah and I remember getting that message being like oh my god like I have a job and it was yeah really cool but that was through COVID as well so I studied during COVID so two out of my three years were done from home away from kind of that community so kind of coming out of covid and going straight into the working world was a really weird feeling did that make did that cause problems or like you just embrace it more appreciating yeah i think you embrace it because you've kind of done the digital side of kind of pitching and you've done all of that online they does leave you with a bit of like imposter syndrome of did i earn my degree because i wasn't in the the office space the kind of studio so i think coming into it and I knew I could do it but in my head I was a bit like can I do it like I should feel like I should be going back to uni because we're out of Covid now but I'm 21 into the office space environment and a designer so it was a really weird kind of first year as a graduate to learn the ropes and I've like let myself I feel like I've got it yeah yeah yeah that's really a cool story that's great good for your mum getting you in there initially yeah I was gonna say and you like didn't almost go that traditional route you kind of like did connect chats up and that's nice but then also it's nice that you kind of got in like to the workspace and like connecting people together when you've like suffered I don't know through toot fed with not feeling together so it's kind of bridging those see that you see the value to the port you're coming together yeah 100 % That's nice.

9:01Wow. What a journey. Yeah, what a journey. It's quite nice, isn't it, if you've got friends at barbecues. That's awesome, I know. No, not the standard journey, but yeah, it showed me quite early on what I wanted to do. Did you actually know you wanted to study interior design or did you do it because you were going to Peldock? No, I had, before that I wanted to, I was doing graphic design, I was doing ICT, so I knew I wanted to do something design-led because kind of the academic side was never my strong suit. And then I kind of went to Peldon and it really showed me at that age, there is a career in design.

9:34It's not kind of seen as a, well, you're doing design. That's not like a career. This is actually something that is needed in the industry to create workspaces that are people centred and they care about who's in them. And I was like, OK, I can now do design as a career. Straight back, I was like straight into college and I was like, I'm going to do 3D design and I'm going to learn workshop stuff. And I'm going to make bits of furniture and keep kind of developing that skill. went in to do interior design at uni and I was like yeah this is what I want to do so I went back and solidated that kind of feeling oh that's cool it's cool you got that exposure you switched from interior design to what's the sense between interior design and plastic you're kind of laughing because it's probably huge no well it's like intertwined I'd say but we as strategists are like very much involved at the beginning before a brief may even be captured and we'll just get in there with the organization maybe create a vision with them help them understand what they need and what they want and then piece together the brief and that's what we would hand over to our designers I see it's all the piece before yeah but we're also involved throughout and yeah it's so what made you do that jump change I think I just found I absolutely loved the client interactions and meeting the people who are going to work in these spaces and a lot of what we do is like workshops and surveys and it's like the data gathering and it's understanding you know how they're working now how they want to work in the future I just loved it I just kind of like the chat to be honest I like chatting to people but um yeah I I guess yeah our teams are really interlinked and I have a few chats around the office and there was an opening and yeah I went for it it's been school yeah because it's nice to be able to move within a so sorry good about mo's at that global yeah and it does so much doesn't it yeah they were very supportive i did have to interview still yes of course it was a bit yeah interviewing with people you already know but yeah they're very supportive and i'm yeah happy they let me do it that's very cool so going into like the world is going to be shaped by your generation massive right if you say so okay too right so what are you going how are you going to be taking like office design strategy that what what how are your generation going to influence that change that i think so i've just like speaking to my friends and not even people in the industry but like hearing what what people are saying and the themes that are coming up it's like people our age especially in london like we're looking to meet people all the time and it's a hard place to meet people i think everyone is looking for connection ultimately like you see all the run clubs that have been started and like they're massively popular and I know I'm not talking about run clubs and we're meant to be talking about workspace but I think the theme is is like people want to meet people and like get to know them and make connections so I'm thinking our generation will maybe put pressure on organizations to focus on culture more and like invest in it and then design spaces that actually encourage you know not just interactions but like deeper connection so more than the water cooler i think that's my take the water cooler so it's so lots of years ago yeah i know what we now coffee station yeah but no that's cool i do see it though like people like gymshark clothing brand like totally smashing it into a community and building that community definitely and wider than them as well like office is more than an office now it's not a box you fit into it's something that has to entice you to stay and I think what you're saying is emotional it needs to care about who's in it it's not just walls that you're in for eight hours a day it's something that you want to be in and you feel it looks after you as much as you're putting in the effort I think it's that harmony between yeah yes it's four walls and a desk but actually there's so much more to it emotionally that you need to feel productive in a day yeah definitely with a rule and you know and outside of work as well like what you're saying but how so how are you in terms of design how are you implementing that what does that look like how would how would that shape out here i think we're looking a lot more at kind of how each space can look after not just one person we're kind of looking at more like neurodiversity brings up a lot of challenges for certain people in aspects and how we can design a space that can either be easily adaptable for someone that might be overstimulated or another space for them that caters so not just kind of a tea point that has one chair what if I don't want to sit at a big communal table like I know at lunch I want to put my headphones in maybe not talk to someone for an hour and it's like designing around that and making sure you have options I think that's the biggest key of looking after each individual need definitely that is i do think i don't think any more people on neurodiverse i just think we know about it i say the stat of like 20 is but i was talking to even k sergeant about it on the podcast a few weeks ago she said we don't even really know what number is it could be 80 it's just i went like diagnosed or we haven't talked about it so we don't know what to look for in themselves so that might be indicators of a neurodiverse and yeah sort of on the spectrum somewhere essentially we've all got our little quirks and how we design i think it's a really i love that topic like it's so massive in terms of their geniuses aren't they as well like the more i don't know this is a big break and the more extreme neurodiverse or what if i like or autistic spectrum they're actually the geniuses aren't they doing their proper pleasure yeah yeah yeah i would agree yeah so like facilitating for them helping them be very active absolute banger yeah that's nice so we can change the world i'm a ck more e-books yeah all about communities about communities making friends at work yeah crazy idea it's kind of yeah i kind of hear that i was sorry wasn't it where people met and like dated and like started families and everything all through like what was the most popular thing was it through families and churches yeah and then it all went online and now we're coming back so far aren't we yeah i have been like there's a few articles about how people are returning to the office they're coming off the apps and they're returning to the office to meet people but openly to meet particular person yeah yeah because everything's digital everything's social media but if you have to come into the office you're going to increase your chances of bumping into new people potentially yeah mr right and another thing i love how it's again it's not workplace but i do think it reflects on workplace is thursday.com i mean i'm on a date yeah but um if i was yeah that would be my one would be one i love how they're doing it in real life events they're making a massive thing of that and you think if dating is doing that like oh my goodness like how much more should we be doing that you know i had me so now i hope anyone that's listening to this at all for remote working you're never going to find your partner might but you might also find them on your way to work or in the office if that's allowed with your hr i guess yeah check first yeah what do um what's the thing that you don't like about the office at the minute or the workplace or the whole thing oh I think because at the moment we're like there's a couple of us that are kind of really trying to spearhead a new passion into the office and it's that like opportunity to give that passion in that we want more of like we want more of an audience to go I love sewing let's bring this to the office and definitely the last year at Pelden like we have run clubs we have sailing outings like but it is purely bring who you are and other people will follow i think we need more of that in the industry and like connecting between practices as well like we're all designers but actually we're quite siloed away from each other unless we come to events kind of at showrooms it'd be really cool to kind of get more of an industry social going yeah i think that's where i would make a change is our networking yeah yeah get us in a room together like not just like broad like bring yourself to work but like nitty-gritty-bitty-deep bring yourself to work and to sewing and owning that and then like gathering a following yeah as stick to that yeah i asked a few people in in my office you know for the themes you were going to talk about today true strategist style gotta get a sort of diverse data set did you get a data set yet um I'm working on it but I had two really different answers and one person said he doesn't want to see open plan desks anymore he thinks been there done that it's it's too repetitive all about creating more of a landscape yeah I think you must be doing it with some of your clients we're doing it with some of some of ours but we're still also seeing desks a lot of desks so maybe there's space for something new something more sort of cozy the idea that you're not just being watched in the the office you can hide away when you come in I think there's a need especially in our generation we quite like to hide away and you know be cozy I guess yeah I don't remember it cozy and desks aren't very cozy are they they're just I think we can we could do better sometimes you know yeah I think yeah challenging how office actually looks now as a younger generation I think's what's coming across quite strongly yeah like with we were talking about this before we started like your strategy to your very tenant led i'm landlord and it's very what's on the market we're trying to get that space let so completely different kind of um strategies yeah and we're kind of almost trying to challenge the market to say your space will let yes it might look slightly different to what you've seen but people need this and it's tough challenge sometimes because i think there's definitely we've all got this idea of an office and what will go in the market but i think having that leeway and we have it with a couple of projects we're on to maybe change the mold slightly and actually we're seeing results that this is what people need and it's reflected in what we're doing so it's yeah changing the way offices are looked at yeah we need it being like led by people like you tier like saying this is how it needs to look but then we need the end clients as well which might be like i say the older demographic not always but like it can be but then we need them to consult their tea while you're doing what they think is right because to be honest they're like on the way out they're not going to be in their chair forever so much as we love them um when you're 50 you haven't got as many years left as when you're 20 i mean i hope to be not i mean well retirement age is slightly going up it's all sounding wrong but you get i mean a 20 year old like has got more years left and nothing happens to them is what i was trying to say we get it but yeah so it's about that isn't it it's about how can we get those kind of like n kinds of cooper taking an analog space to actually yeah this is really i know it might be quite uncomfortable for you because this is might not feel productive it might feel like people are being lazy and we come to work and we're not here to have a cozy chat and like this yeah i get it but you might not have much team if you think quite that I mean yeah definitely so do you bump across that as a problem and strategy-wise I guess you might or not what in terms of like you're talking to your clients or something like that is that something that will crop up or what like the door the door closing and yeah I think well it's funnily enough that's another thing my one of my colleagues said about the what they'd want to change is like we're trying to do this more and more but some clients once the project's finished they are they're happy to to leave leave us and I think we want to keep the conversation going and adapt and change and like get feedback on what they're doing and evolve it with with people so like hearing what hearing how they're using it you know not to say we weren't going to get it right first time but there are always you know you can't completely predict what people are going to do and how they're going to use it so I think we just want to like get in there a bit more and and work with them and evolve it with them yeah and with any luck if your project is a success they're gonna grow or evolve as business anyways yeah then their space is gonna change right so it's not even necessarily that you didn't get it right first time it could be that you went so right yeah that is like oh my goodness that now we're just sparked a new thing and a new way of working and yeah the attendances shot up and yeah it's on a project the other day where they delivered the project and then they went back in afterwards like six months after they did about the whole like kind of valuation and like finding how it's working and they haven't got enough desks and it wasn't that they didn't match the brief it's that people are coming in so much because it's so it's so good yeah and it's so productive so nice it's so enjoy it and it is very pleasant sweaty bettors offices and they literally had to they're having to redo more that's a success surely that's wicked yeah that is so cool because it's not that the design wasn't right in the first place it was but it's just like it's just yeah yeah it's too good almost it's made for you to get out of bed and onto the train yeah yeah oh i think that's a win we can do that the trains are getting busier like yeah i think yeah half term it was lovely everyone was away but now we're back into it's getting busy isn't it yeah yeah and hot as we were saying yeah i'm supposed to be like super pro office but that's the one thing is i used to base it at the carriage to myself oh i'm that always that's no it was quite dreamy wasn't it i imagine do you oh you don't have to because you're wimbledon yeah i'm i'm based local to wimbledon so so you just just walk that's great yeah that is the dream commute that is so you're always in five days yeah there is is no working from home in our company yeah we are very much what they feel and I agree is that we design offices for people and we collaborate and you can't do that over a screen you need to be with each other drawing on a bit of paper together and understanding how something works I think like especially we have an intern program so we have interns in the office it's not fair on them for half of us to be working from home we're there to teach them and to show them what this community is I guess you can't work for mine like it's just don't think it works very well yeah that is actually something that I think a massive thing like you touched on it really like quickly then obviously meant lots you which is great but I think when you're training and like the next gen or who are going to take over our jobs and everything else um how are they gonna to learn someone's got to teach them someone's got to teach them and if they can't see how like they can't model your behavior it means it's like parenting they're like little kicks and they can't model your behaviors that like see how you are in front of clients or see how you are with your colleagues and like all those kind of acceptables that you aren't even necessarily physically sitting down dropping but they also teach us a lot it's the reverse of that is you not complacent but you do something and you know what you're doing and you just do it on autopilot and they come in they go why are you doing it like that what if you do it like this and then you go actually I could do it like that or and they come with so many fresh ideas they are constantly challenging us and like I've been working one of our interns for the last two weeks and I she's actually a graduate and I was like look I want you to take this section of project and run with it I'll be here in the background but run with it okay so you've taught me the process but why are you doing like that actually fair point i think as much as we give them experience they actually give a lot of value back oh yeah so i think you've got to be there yeah yeah but you can't let that's how i learned was being was people being there so yeah i also do think that younger generation have got much more knowledge now because of like ai podcasts i've booked you can access like tip-top minds of today yeah it's data set it's just love it chat gbt wicked wicked invention it was actually yeah yeah it's a don't know how yeah because questions you would usually ask your boss or your senior you can just ask chat gbt now so i'm like i'm trying to balance it really because you i want to still keep learning from my peers but then chat gbt has answers but i think you've got to do both if you're a proper data set you'd like treat it as one of my that's cool yeah it's just one one or any i do think though that it's rather than open up loads of google tabs you kind of do any search engine yeah and something cool okay nice well what i was also going to ask you is what's a mistake you've made or like something that's kind of gone wrong something a light bulb moment you've had like talking about it more positively I guess um you have kind of implemented and how you won many mistakes along the way but I guess you gotta own them that's rule number one and a supportive team will always help you out everyone makes mistakes so I think that's okay oh totally um and I guess light bulb moment um it's a cringe one if you don't mind a bit of cheese um just i'm here like lean lean into personality i guess like when you join as a junior i think it's quite scary to be your true self and you know you're sort of copying your seniors and you're obviously like learning you're learning the way but i think as soon as you can lean into personality and bring that to the table and bring even to like client meetings like that's that's your usp so if you can start doing that it will make work more fun and easier as well because you just speak from what you know so i think that's that's something i'm trying to do a bit more toning back the weirdness a touch when necessary but yeah that's my light bulb moment oh i agree i think it's the exact same was what I was going to say is that you your individuality is what makes you you and how you design so lean into it you know you're not going into a pitch cardboard as a person that's what they want to see it's who you are and how you've designed that because I think I mean it might be wrong but when you design something you give a little bit of yourself into it because you are kind of yeah feeding off of what you feel is correct and what you feel is right for the space so you have to pitch it with some love you kind of have to go in and be like i think this is it and this is why and and all of that and you have to be you to do that and it sounds a bit silly to say that but it cringes that clicked with me and then i was like right i can be me yeah yeah you say it you say you both said that might be grinned but i it is a trait of your generation that's really really cool that older people and myself have rooted have tried to be somebody because that's what the world needs or that's what the corporate ladder needs or that's what the something wants from you and whereas i think the younger generation are much better at embracing themselves and like yeah i'm a bit weird there and i can't do that and kind of happy just to say that i'm that's not me but but i'm over here sewing so if you need me just like here's my number and i think that is something that we're gonna have to totally embrace like we can learn from that as an older generation which is i'm putting myself in this artist because i feel like wrong to be putting myself in like the gen z bracket because i'm not so yeah um i'm thinking like yeah there's a two-way there's a there's a learning there but also thinking about how we can it goes back to community think really about how we can facilitate that and kind of encourage it because people should it's quite easy to maybe feel like you're judged I mean this is how I feel but like the culture shouldn't allow for that the workplace design shouldn't allow for that it should kind of yeah bring bring a weirdo yeah did you find the early days in your career were you more of a timid guy very really yeah timid really underconfident yeah and definitely you're like very much judged on age and like you had to do a certain way and do a certain thing and it but it wasn't until i embraced who i was yeah and i kind of i'm rubbish like i'm never going to be a finance person but i probably could do creative that i then got somewhere does that makes sense so yeah my experience is the same but it was kind of really strange back in that then I took yeah it's just a confidence thing isn't it I think everyone's a little nervous when they start out and yeah I guess that makes sense because you know a lot less but yeah as soon as you can start feeling confident and being yourself it just it does get easier and still make mistakes obviously you're not gonna be perfect but yeah I did actually have a really cool comment from someone on the podcast where he said if you're not suffering from imposter syndrome you're not pushing your creative boundaries and doing it right yeah yeah so you need to you you should be like double checking yourself you can help if i've gone too far because otherwise you're not yeah so that's quite cool isn't it so then i'm like right yeah i like that yeah so that's networks but is is there a book or a podcast that you recommend and you get a good insight from or inspiration maybe not a work one but i've got another for you um mel robbins let them theory it's a it's a banger it's a good one it's just about sort of yeah letting people do whatever they need to do like let go of control just focus on what you need to do and it's freeing it's great really recommend it and i oh yeah i love mel robbins yeah i also love let me oh you've seen that okay to be able to go i'm for you yeah it's one but she she's just like okay and now let me okay i like it and it's really good really helpful these are both on my list yeah like before you said that i was like i should have read it no it's good mine is a little bit cheesy and i'm gonna butcher it it's the boy the fox the mole and the horse or possibly the wrong way around but it's those four and we'll have to google it after this because i can't remember but it's almost it's an illustration book and it shows a journey of a boy that's going through when he meets a horse and a mole whatever um but it's like the journey of how you go from being on your own to being in a team and I think that resonates with I think a lot of us coming into the industry you kind of start on your own as a grad and you really build who you are who you are as a team I just find it resonates a lot with kind of the journey I think we're all on at the moment yeah That's a great one.

33:06You'll have seen it. They did a movie at Christmas as well. You can read it in 10 minutes. It's an illustration book, but there's a lovely meaning behind it. Yeah, it's a lovely illustration book. And a 10 minute read, Evie. Love it. Life hack in 10 minutes. Who's not all of that? More of that, I think. Great, well thank you so much for coming in. Massive congratulations on the Mixed 30 Under 30. Thanks for having us. And it's worth sharing how the world's going to evolve under your management. I hope so. Thank you. Thanks guys. Thank you.