Designing Differently: Dyslexia, Leadership, and Delivery with Dicky Lewis

0:00Guy Stanley:And as I was leaving, one of our clients, Charlotte, she gave us the Virgin by Design book. And the last page is a quote that says, Virgin still thinks of themselves as a cheeky startup. We were leaving to go to the pitch and I took a photo of it and I just put that as the last slide. As we were finishing our pitch, yeah, you say you're the cheeky startup. We are the cheeky startup. We are the startup alumni. And they say, all right, fine. Okay, let's stop tugging our heartstrings.

0:25Dicky Lewis:Hi and welcome to Space by Stansons. today i really look forward to this one actually because when i first met i'm with dickie lewis from white red architects he's a co-founder with his co-founder joe and jesus as well as three of us three of you okay well welcome to thank you thank you so much i'd be really excited to chat to dickie because when we first met like everything about the meeting it felt like i was looking at myself your energy and everything and i just you were like i've got to go to another meeting i'm

0:53Guy Stanley:so sorry i forgot about it yeah yeah and i was like that is so i was so pleased someone else did that to me i was like brilliant i found the pop i want to just chat to you and i always have write

1:05Dicky Lewis:down the legal like some topics i want to pick up just from our chat and something that i think

1:09Guy Stanley:that's really interesting but vicky white red architect set that up one of the things i picked

1:14Dicky Lewis:up from you like straight on getting straight into it you're the sex sick you know the sex yeah talk to me about that because i'm totally on yeah like hearing other people's stories yeah i mean i

1:24Guy Stanley:think it's quite it seems to be quite common and prevalent within architects uh on a kind of neurodivergent uh range but yeah dyslexia i was diagnosed quite young looking back i was probably about 12 my sister had been diagnosed before me and then it's kind of a stigma back in those days So I remember her having to take these massive brain pills and all these very dramatic things to try and overcome it. But it was my art teacher and English teacher that works together and said, we think Dickie's not quite on it in English and he seems to just want to be in the art studio. So, yeah, it's quite nice to be diagnosed so early.

2:02Guy Stanley:But it was amazing to have had that art teacher to, you know, he said something to me, which actually came full circle more recently, was that you know there's actually another dyslexic dickie and he hasn't done too bad and that was richard branson so it was from that young age it was really amazing to have that diagnosis but also have had that inspiration um and then which did leave full circle to us doing persian headquarters which yeah super proud of that's a pretty wicked comeback in it yeah

2:30Dicky Lewis:i do think that with today with people i mean i don't think we talk about it enough but i do think with today we're talking about it more it is more inspiring it does it's not such a stigma

2:40Guy Stanley:I mean, it really is, it can be skewed as a superpower. There's definitely some personality typologies and strengths within the typical dyslexia that actually is really useful in certain elements. So it's definitely not negative.

2:57Dicky Lewis:Yeah. How do you feel like it does shape you? How do you feel that you might lead differently or design differently?

3:03Guy Stanley:So it's hard to self-evaluate, but I definitely have focus and attention issues, which is kind of obviously at school looking back on my own course it's quite shocking but I see it now as kind of pace and the and the cadence of how I'm getting through processes and ideas I think that's kind of that that instigation that has really helped White Red or helps in business and we often heard joke between Jesus and I at one of my co-founders Jesus he's more of an implementer and I'm more of an instigator. And then Joe almost sits perfectly somewhere in between. And that instigation and implementation, you can't have one without the other because it's just full-on instigating and never getting anywhere.

3:48Guy Stanley:It's probably where I would be without that support and help. You know, that's what I think, you know, I found that with being dyslexic, I found that kind of lack of attention span and focus that you can actually use it to an advantage and in exploring ideas and testing things so yeah i know what you mean after like a little bit kind of gets boring yeah who drops off and you're onto the next thing oh fads i've done you know i think my wife was joking once about me i was i was desperate to set up a business from from the early age and then you know i was almost getting frustrated of not being able to set up my practice quickly so i was like oh maybe i'll just set up a house painting business and my wife was like what is wrong with you just stick to the path keep going why you don't know anything about house painting listen to a podcast and be like right great idea so yeah you need people around you to help support and focus you but uh yeah yeah that's definitely some positives i do think

4:45Dicky Lewis:it brings out like there is like an energy or maybe that for like to take risks and something

4:50Guy Stanley:like that yeah which is positive right yeah yeah i think that risk taking it's always you you just you've ever and us is the same so that's why sometimes you kind of feel it's like jared has these look at me and they're kind of like okay and and i just assume that's what everyone thinks and so there's that element of i guess the call it thinking out the outside the box but um yeah i

5:12Dicky Lewis:think that that is common as well is it ever been like a barrier or a disadvantage for it's kind of

5:17Guy Stanley:pushed you back today i think i mean i was lucky to have had extra time in exams and i didn't even use it yeah yeah i did i mean that's the thing i the thing is though i always i think you could just fill the time don't you but um and i think i was just slow at writing to be honest i'm a left hander as well i smudge everything so uh i remember the days that we actually switched from pencils to fountain pens at primary school being like what the hell you know it was just a big spudge but i think you know the extra time was really helpful in the exam so maybe i haven't had that then maybe i would have been more disadvantaged who knows but knowing that i was supported was really helpful and I never felt it I never felt disadvantaged and it was almost just I just you know I never even noticed that I was that bad at spelling it wasn't even about that it was just more working in a different way and and mostly kind of focus and attention got 25 % extra time on my exams where I never know what do you want to use it for yeah and all these kids were getting up and

6:11Dicky Lewis:walking out because they were finished I was like what and I've got to stay here like seriously

6:15Guy Stanley:don't worry I'm finished here by now there's nothing worse than extra time I remember physics a AS level and I don't need extra time this I've I've failed it already yeah oh yeah I can remember yeah oh definitely there was an exam that I had that but I think school is is a good example you know it's the education system is hundreds and hundreds of years old and it's tailored for the industrial revolution you know that that era hasn't really evolved since then so I think with the prevalence and the understanding of neurodiversity it's you know looking back school probably wasn't the right format for me traditionally so i do look at my reports i apologized to my mum you know a few few years ago just looking back i'm so sorry like looking at these it must have been a nightmare i had my first parents evening with my son i had almost ptsd from going to parents evening he was only two in the three quarters and so i was like i don't know what i'm nervous about but it's just because i used to hate parents evening and my parents would come home and just be like what

7:15Dicky Lewis:the hell he's up to and that's interesting and you touched on richard branson so i want to pick up on that because you did i don't know if we'll be able to get pictures of virginia to like share with this podcast yeah definitely um that would be wicked but yeah how did that all come about how did you

7:29Guy Stanley:get the brief how'd you get the opportunity yeah so originally we were introduced uh into to the virgin team they were looking at just doing a small refurbishment so i think we pitched first to help with this very small job and that then suddenly you know they came in and they said you know good news and bad news the bad news is this we've got to cancel this job it's stopping i think what's the good news there and the good news was that they're actually looking that they're kind of procuring their own headquarters but there was a kind of kicker in that is that you have to re-pitch again and because it's a way bigger job it's you know it's not a given at all that you're going to get this so it was kind of back to the table a pitch boat again you know we were so happy to have you got the first opportunity to work for virgin and uh so the second one was the was really the main pitch and that's where we we threw everything at it and honestly it meant a lot to me and also to us as a team um i also did the virgin startup accelerator before as part of setting up white red so we were part of the startup alumni so we we really pitched our hearts out and said we all do everything to make this successful and work and you know we are that cheeky startup that you know you you think of yourselves as it was an amazing pitch process because it was the first pitch where we just did everything we could think of to try and win it and uh it was really great when we did win it was just so exciting but we had a mammoth task ahead of us because it was full full on it was a big project they were the owner and occupy it so they own the building and then they're also about to occupy it so not easy there's a few issues along the way but it was incredible to to build relationships and friendships as well with the virgin team you know even now they're coming come to our drinks this week and keep in touch and they've been so kind to let's just show some of our clients and other team uh around the space constantly they've thousands of weeks around there so we know a lot of them really well but yeah it was a challenging project for us as a business as well to learn from but at the end of the day that it was a brilliant result they're really happy so richard's happy um and they're continuing to evolve in the space as well which is what we want to and you know the challenges that we had and that project we've learned a lot from and i don't think we're the same practice that we were before that so it's a good thing and you said you threw everything at the brief like what what were you doing even you know really tugging in the heartstrings even as we were leaving we were testing how to come to presentation styles i mean it was not powerpoint it was the um apple version of apple slides yeah yeah if you know so that was an era where joe and i were just doing everything on keynote so we could we could almost do the pitch on the way still so it was still being iterated and as i was leaving as part of the first pitch which was lovely one of our clients charlotte she gave us the virgin by design book and the last page of that is a quote that says virgin still thinks of themselves as a cheeky startup and i was we were leaving to go to the pitch i took a photo of it and i just put that as the last slide and i was as we were finishing our pitch i was like yeah you say you're the cheeky startup we are actually startup we are the startup and then i and they say all right fine okay like stop tugging our heartstrings but no it was it was yeah just anything we could do to show you our commitment to our projects and we were using videos with cgi's as much as we could um and ideas and then just rehearsing the the presentation as well just rehearse rehearse rehearse thinking about what you wear everything it was just every single detail we tried to to work through but is it about when you're like interviewing someone

11:17Dicky Lewis:for a position and they come in and they've got that kind of energy or that like alignment yeah

11:22Guy Stanley:And you're like, oh, okay, wicked. Yeah, that's good. I think typically what's the biggest point and what some of these clients are looking at as well when we pitch is are they going to get involved with the team? A lot of projects that we pitch for, they say we want to see some of the team members as well. So, you know, it's very important. We're all human and we need to make sure, and especially on construction jobs, it's a long journey. When you do encounter difficulties, is you want to hopefully understand that you're going to get on and work well with those people. And it works both ways as the client team and the consultant team.

11:58Guy Stanley:We've got to gel to make it successful. And what were the challenges?

12:02Dicky Lewis:Well, I mean, how you did change or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

12:04Guy Stanley:I mean, there's a lot. The main few, the building itself, there was quite a few discoverables. You know, they'd bought a building in Fitzrovia off of Whitford Street. It's completely gutted. It was, you know, a shell. And there were some structural issues that were discoverables of what the condition was. So that was eating into the capital expenditure before we'd even got started on the interior. So there's things happening there. But I think also as a multi-headed organization, Virgin isn't just Sir Richard. It's lots of different companies and lots of different stakeholders, which was also incredible for us because we were liaising with the sustainability team, the diversity inclusion team, the operational teams, you know, all of those different facets of the company to try and make sure we fulfilled the brief.

12:59Guy Stanley:So that was a challenge at the same time as it was a great opportunity. And then even as our own practice, you know, we are unashamedly a startup set up by the three founders that we're still finding our way in running our business. and especially in architecture practice. So we had some really amazing team members undertake the project and also some also join us along the way, which really helped as well. So yeah, it was just full of learnings. We're still doing the kind of post-match analysis to this day of how we did it and how we can improve that.

13:39Dicky Lewis:We're trying to do that on every project as well. I honestly should definitely for us as well, like the projects. I know I'm like looking into them. It's going to be so time absorbing, can't it? And I talk about like, you have a good idea. This would be wicked. Yeah. Trying to dig into it and like, just that kind of like what went well. Yeah. Or didn't go well. Oh, you can get better.

13:57Guy Stanley:Yeah. You have to be, I mean, the key is actually dedicating the time to do it. We even struggled to do that. But, you know, we have an incredible leadership team who work with us on this and make sure that it's meticulously analyzed. Most of our team come from large practices, so they're kind of taking what they've learned from those. But also you have to be super honest. It's like what went wrong. It's not about who did what. It's genuinely about if we can learn from this, then White Red will be a better organization. So let's not try and throw anyone under the bus at all. It's just about what went wrong, what could we be approved.

14:35Guy Stanley:Yeah, so it's about to be honest, really. and we're keen to try and learn on every job you know even midway three quarters of the way through we need to just try and make sure we're doing a great job if we're not in certain areas is there something we can do to help overcome that um because at the end of the day you know our reputation at the moment is it's everything we don't get this right now we don't have foundation to build the build on so and it's and there's no wiggle room is there yeah exactly that you know as much as you want to kind of pump out marketing and social media and all of those fluffy elements the reality is especially in our market it's a very small world um and you know we really care about our reputation and and making sure that we're perceived well and it's our biggest theory is just spreading like wildfire and if we've not done a great job so yeah yeah i think because we are that startup mentality every single opportunity is is golden and you still hold that

15:35Dicky Lewis:now yeah yeah absolutely we managed to keep that like as well as we scaled like yeah yeah yeah i used to at a startup like can you claim that yeah i think i don't know when you stop this

15:46Guy Stanley:i used to be very at the beginning of the white red i was always we were always used to mac are our competitors and how big they were you know how many years they've been in practice and we were just obsessed with kind of the size and i think we've really become to understand actually it's not about the size of the team or uh it's more about the delivery and the quality and also the potential that we can achieve as well um so so we've adjusted our metrics of what success is and i and i guess we still have that startup mentality because we are still punching above our weight in certain opportunities and we're still competing with you know the bigger practices um so we have to have to think like that there's also the balance of letting yourself enjoy it and i think that's what i've started to try and work on a bit more as well is the the reality is that our practice is a lifestyle business it's not a tech scalable startup that's gonna 100x and and when you exit it's this is a this is a business that we we need to enjoy and go on the journey with for our lives and enjoy the work enjoy working with the team and enjoy working with other consultants and suppliers yeah it's a really good message not just to

17:03Dicky Lewis:founders and um directors but also to everybody like if you're in this you're in a really enjoyable you're tangibly making a difference to people's everyday yeah and like it's so much more than

17:17Guy Stanley:just a transaction and yeah i think um yeah it's so easy to i think everyone does it they want to almost push off i'll get fit later or i'll get wealthy later and i'll do this you know like marketing later and it's something that we're trying to work on is just making sure that we're living it in the moment and we won a pitch recently go and celebrate it and enjoy the moment and then then you get cracking on it and if there's bad times then you overcome them and so it is that brony coaster you've got to kind of settle into it's not long as well but a bit of feast and famine in projects so like it's wicked and if you don't celebrate then like soon you're back down here oh yeah yeah i know and that's the thing and you just look back and you regret not celebrating in there and i think it also doesn't it doesn't really help the culture of the team as well if you don't stop and so yeah it's it's difficult because you're everyone's head down and busy if you're not careful then suddenly you can lose a lot was that a moment with sir richard

18:18Dicky Lewis:that you had or throughout the project with his team or something like that which changed your

18:23Guy Stanley:your mindset that second pitch you know that was the one where we when we won it we knew that we'd actually overcome some bigger competitors that um you know we really have a lot to prove there i think our mindset then turned into we've got to absolutely nail this and really deliver and over deliver so you know that that's where our mindset switched from that way you know it's an exciting opportunity like okay yeah should knock us no that's a two-year oh crap yeah and And even C &K went always from how can we do, we've been with T-Pers about everything in the pitch to how can we make our studio an amazing place for them to come to.

19:05Guy Stanley:You know, we had things like the first meeting we had, for some reason, a couple of us were late. The studio was open at like two minutes past nine and, you know, had a couple of the clients still outside our studio. And it was like mortifying that that had, you know, happened and it's all our fault because of certain systems and principles and so after that we did a lot of changing of how we make sure the studio is open warm ready on time for the meetings and you know set up and smells great and all those little touches that you know that that translates it all way through so also the way we actually deliver the work as well so i love the honesty because everyone's done that like in no place i'm mortified i know i get it it's even worse when your bed down you're opening the shutters and they're stood there and they're fine they're absolutely you know but you just inside it's just dying and and livid as well you're like what's

19:58Dicky Lewis:happened something happened yesterday i was just so like oh i wish a big hole was quite i'm so embarrassed yeah like do you know i mean it's just so oh it's funny you you probably ask the other

20:10Guy Stanley:parties and they wouldn't even notice and it's just you know but yeah that's a good example of all the way through that project i think we had lots of those moments where we realized we needed to stack up and you know the project managers we were with you know we had really great great relationship with them and yeah they'll we we had moments where we had to sit down and work through things with them and both you know come out that is a is a as a better team and a team for the project so yeah worked really well the contractors they were brilliant they helped us overcome you lots of lots of issues and at the end of the day it felt like that project everyone works really well to try and preserve the quality for the client so it's a lovely success story and it is

20:55Dicky Lewis:it was a tricky journey but i love that it was a success story but with learnings and challenges it makes it more like wholesome and real when did you ever get any direct communication or