Designing for Emotion, Not Just Efficiency with Vyshali Sardesai

0:00Vyshali Sardesai:You know, I had no idea how to do technical drawing or how things were put together. How do you build? I always saw the vision. I've realised actually that I do a lot of that in my work today, where I'm taking new spaces and trying to not reinvent them necessarily, but take the client, what they want, what they need, and then repurposing it for something else. So that really, really excites me and I love that. three years after we've started this podcast we thought it was time to make sure that those lessons and the takeaways from our amazing guests were actually actionable something you can really put into place so we have launched show notes a bi-weekly email get into your inbox and that will give you the key headlines that is indexable findable actionable we can really start to make a difference in creating healthy happy workspaces so the link's below or you can head to stansons.co.uk forward slash space look forward to seeing you sign up so this episode of space by stansons i've never done it before we're actually going to go on a journey i'm like physically on a journey with vishali um we're going to see like how she gets her inspiration um and like kind of I don't know, what sets up her day?

1:23So first of all, let's get on the train.

1:25Vyshali Sardesai:Hi, I'm Vishali. This is where I go. Thank you, Vishali. So we are on the train into King's Cross. Talk to me about how you get your inspiration. Talk to me about your sketching. Usually on my commute in the mornings, I like to draw people on the train. I think this really just starts to kind of get me relaxed. But also I get a chance to kind of really focus on my day, what I'm going to be doing. It's a creative outlet, obviously, and a little bit of me time, which is always good. So I can kind of focus on a bit of mindfulness before I start my day. So you're almost like zen out through drawing.

2:00Vyshali Sardesai:Yeah, for sure. Headphones on, music on, way too loud. What are you listening to? I listen to all kinds of music. I'm quite into Lily Allen at the moment. She's created quite a storm with her album. So I've tried to kind of connect to that and see what's going on with that. but I love drum and bass I love soul music I love all kinds of music yeah yeah show us some of your sketches so uh yeah just pen and ink really um just quick doodles with my pen not too wet on the page you know it kind of works I really love this moleskin paper as well because it really it's kind of quite smooth these literally take about five ten minutes max like I just try not to think about it too much and you know drawing I don't want it to be too pressured it doesn't matter if it doesn't quite look right I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to things like that so I'm trying to really let go and just be a bit more fluid and free yeah so you're trying to capture one of these a day or yeah well these two were earlier this morning yeah on my way in to meet you guys yeah and it kind of depends sometimes I'll just do a quick outline and then I'll finish off the kind of the hatching style or whatever later on most of the time they tend to get up and get off at their stop.

3:12Vyshali Sardesai:So I'm just like, yeah, just pretty relaxing. I quite, I quite find, I quite find it interesting, kind of different personalities of people and trying to capture that. So I'm not really bothered about it looking too realistic necessarily. I think they look flipping realistic. I quite liked, I loved manga and Japanese style of animation when I was younger. So I think some of that sort of, you know, using that thin line and the thicker line, I tend to kind of outline around the outside of each sketch. Quite influenced by that in a way, I think, still. I loved comics when I was young. So I think that sort of comes through in my drawing style sometimes.

3:54Vyshali Sardesai:I know, I love it. It's really like kind of simple but complex as well. Does that make sense? Do you know what I mean? It's actually really deep. When you start looking at it, there's so much going on. But it's actually all just done with a simple line in five minutes. I think for me also what this does is really good practice. So when I'm at work, how do I kind of translate this into my day to day? I'm a creative designer. You know, it's about storytelling and concept. And for me, that process, the thinking of the concepts and how I come up with ideas, I doodle a lot. um so for workplace strategy and design yeah so i think this kind of loosens me up for the day and then by the time i get into the office i'm kind of ready and good to go i just i don't want to be on the tube looking at my instagram or whatever um i you know because we're on screens a lot um so for me that little half an hour tube journey um really forces me to to have that digital detox the breathing absolutely right you know i do tend to find that i'm my breathing regulates while i'm i'm sketching so yeah it's kind of health and mental you know yeah so they're so like yeah i mean i only started this a few years ago drawing people on the train just before covid and i can see how my confidence on pen to paper has grown i love it yeah absolutely yeah Even just mentally, like, not giving a shit what people think.

5:22Vyshali Sardesai:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was so self-conscious before, and now slightly less so, I think. I don't want to freak people out, though, you know. We're quite a conservative bunch, aren't we? Oh, so thanks for showing us your sketching, anyway. You're welcome. Quite interesting to see, like, in the head of a creative, right? And then now we're going to Baggy to Walk King's Cross. Yeah. Is this a big... What's this? Yeah, so I specialised in urban regeneration for my final year at university. And so for me, I get real joy out of seeing places, spaces, buildings that have, you know, been disused or abandoned almost.

6:05Vyshali Sardesai:And then how the power of design can recreate a space or a place and transform it. And I love that transformative aspect of design. Yeah. But more importantly, how it can impact the community in a positive way. So for me, that's really important. And I guess eventually, you know, I ended up specializing in workplace design. And how that sort of translates is we also transform, whether it's a floor or we take a really old building and give it a new purpose. So for me, I get really excited about that part of the job. Yeah, I love it how people flow and move through spaces and you can change how people think and feel and behave.

6:51It's so exciting. But King's Cross is like the perfect example. It's the perfect example of that.

6:56Vyshali Sardesai:Yeah, I think that's why. I mean, it's really easy for me to get to. I live in northwest London, so I can just jump on the Metropolitan Line on a weekend. And my husband, my son and I, we just come have a little mooch around. but I can get a quick sketch in. But again, you know, it's watching the kids playing in the fountain, going through and seeing Central St. Martins and how that has got its new site now and much better facilities for the art students. So, yeah, it's really exciting. You're quite inspired as well by street art, aren't you? Love street art. Always have. Always mooching around in Shoreditch.

7:37Vyshali Sardesai:and I think I've been into street art for a really really long time so you know before the before the time of when Banksy was famous or whatever you know I loved late 80s early 90s New York hip-hop music and stuff rap music so street art and all of that is really a big part of that whole culture and that scene but London's a great city right because of all the heritage and also the modern architecture so it's a real joy in all weathers as we haven't got great weather today but you can still really you know really enjoy walking around and taking the city in I love people watching and how people interact in public spaces as well as inside a building because I think it's really important to really understand the nature of community and and how people interact with each other it's all a part of what we do sort of psychology of design.

8:28You touched on that like King's Cross is like a phenomenal regeneration example is there an area in London that you would love to regenerate that hasn't been done at the minute that kind of needs

8:39Vyshali Sardesai:it yeah so for me regeneration isn't gentrification you know for me gentrification what does that mean so you know I think the problem with when you look at urban regeneration is is that sometimes you know the the community that has been there for generations can become displaced so So a little bit like East London, where, you know, house prices are astronomical, really, you know, in Hackney and those areas. And actually local people who've lived there over generations can't necessarily afford to live in Hackney anymore, you know. So for me, when I was studying, it was about how can we regenerate this area, but with the community in mind.

9:23That's existing there already.

9:25Vyshali Sardesai:The existing community as well as, you know, allowing new members to join. You know, it was about transforming buildings that were really, would really activate the experience for the local community as well. And it could really enhance the offering of that area. Yeah. Is there any way that you'd love to do? For my final year project, I actually did East London. I actually found an old building in East London and we kind of, I translated that into my final year project. There are still pockets of that that you can see, but it's kind of going further and further out, I think. Yeah. I'd quite like to go back in and sort of study what's been done so far.

10:08Vyshali Sardesai:It's changed so much over the last 20 years. It's almost unrecognisable in some areas. So you're actually a bit of an architect at heart, right? Yeah, totally. And that's like so different to interior design. I get the overlap like in terms of like from strategy and from like people flow I don't know like workplace strategy all of that I can see how it blends in with regeneration but you're actually there's much more going on than just interior design yeah for sure pictures yeah yeah yeah for sure you know I think it you know that's why I really love what we do it takes in all aspects of persona types place types you know you can really rethink and change an experience with just a you know a dash of a line it can transform something an idea or a concept so um you know it's it's a fascinating way to be able to spend your day right i'd much rather do that than work in a bank no disrespect to any bankers out there of course Unless you designed that bank for them.

11:17Of course, yeah. What's the biggest project you've done?

11:20Vyshali Sardesai:A big South African bank. So they had a huge campus. I think it was about 400 ,000 square foot of real estate. Wow. There was Just Eat Takeaway, Unispace, which was about 200 ,000 square foot. It's pretty big. Oh, okay. Yeah, so I've worked on some really big ones. I've been fortunate enough to have a really diverse kind of industry sector of clients. So from, you know, the big gaming companies, video games to, you know, more corporate, you're more kind of corporate conservative clients. Yeah. I find it simply fascinating how physical space can totally change how we think, feel and behave, meaning it can pause distractions.

12:09It can connect us. It can mean we do our very best work. and that's where Stansons steps in. This show is created by Stansons who design, make and install curtains and acoustics to create the perfect environment for people to flourish and do their very best work. You've got a project on, we know how it feels. Reach out and we'll start to talk. What makes a great client? Is it like budget or size?

12:36Vyshali Sardesai:Yeah, it's not the budget or the size. It's about how open the client is to new ideas. For me, you know, that's really interesting. I love being challenged by the brief and by the client. And then we can come up with something, a really, you know, amazing solution for them. You know, you get a real buzz out of that, you know, going back and presenting it and you see that twinkle in their eyes. Like, yeah, they get me, you know. I love that. I love that. Do you find some clients can be quite reserved? Yeah, of course. You know, I think it's difficult, right? especially in the corporate world, there are so many factors to take into consideration.

13:12Vyshali Sardesai:It's, you know, so I totally understand that some clients might not be able to step outside of their own comfort zone. Yeah. We need to look after the client and ensure that they're happy. So, you know, yeah.

13:29This is Cold Drop Shard.

13:30Vyshali Sardesai:Yeah. Yeah, so I love that, you know, they've got the original warehouses and things that used to hold all the coal and all of that, which is amazing. But the fact that how they've transformed it and revitalized this whole area, it's just amazing. And again, they've got all the right elements, you know, retail, there's food, there's community space, there's outdoor public arts. It's quite often like events as well, isn't it? Yeah, loads of events. Like sort of things. I've seen like saunas and dancing. It activates the air, it draws people in, you know. It's a magnet almost now, instead of repelling, which is probably what it did 30 years ago, you know.

14:10So it's got really, like, chilled energy as well somehow. You feel quite relaxed there, especially when it's sunny, like that picture.

14:17Vyshali Sardesai:Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Do we need to say any more? All of England's nice when it's sunny. This is great. This is what I love about London, like with the canalways and the river and stuff just to have this kind of access just instantly just like oh chill chill yeah yeah you know really good for cognitive memory isn't it water they say if you study like listening to water yeah helps you remember it better and the smoke yeah exactly the smell exactly smell so important as well isn't it yeah what those five senses that hitting them all like sound and um smell and texture and and i just love it you know all the original architecture is still there there's new and it just looks all in sync you know it just works it's such a good example of how urban regeneration done well is awesome yeah so when I think like you mentioned you love regeneration and then the like first place that comes to my head is this like yeah it's a good example right how have you seen it evolve like over the over times oh my so um especially this area here bagley's walk um so i used to come raving here at bagley's nightclub which was under the arches about 30 plus years ago showing my age and then you know it was you'd be scared to walk around late at night yeah whereas now i mean so i've really seen how this area is just completely transformed and uh yeah like the opposite vibe of what it was 30 years ago, let's say.

15:50Yeah.

15:51Vyshali Sardesai:You know, again, here, where we're coming into Granary Square now, you know, in the summer, you see little kids running through the water. Loads of families are together. It's such a big kind of space where community comes in and interacts with each other. I just love watching that. I love people watching again. It's brilliant. You know, obviously on a rainy day today, no one's running through, but there's still something quite vibrant and kind of quite eclectic as well. I love that Central St. Martins have got their new home here. Yeah. The fact that they've gone into like a heritage building but really modernised it, you know, where they were in sort of Covent Garden side, Shaftesbury Avenue area before, the building was really old and wasn't really fit for students, artists really to work in.

16:39Vyshali Sardesai:So now they've got really great space. Yeah. I like that because I wanted to study fine art actually. But my dad gave me some really good advice. He said, you know, absolutely nurture the artist side in you, but I really want you to be able to earn good money and be able to be independent and stand on your own two feet. Is that quite different for, like, an Indian background? Yeah, I guess he was... Is that quite an unusual aspect, or is that old-fashioned thinking that? No, no, no, absolutely not. You know, I think for his time, he was a feminist. Yeah. Quite progressive, you know. Very cool.

17:12Vyshali Sardesai:He has two daughters, but he always raised us like he would if he had two sons. You know, there was no difference. That's cool. And so, you know, for him, he said it's really important that you're able to be fully independent. So do something that's creative, but something that's a bit more commercial. And when I started out in my career, you had to do a one-year art foundation course before you did any degree. What the Art Foundation course used to do is, you know, you could try fine art, sculpture, a little bit of architecture, a little bit of photography. You could try lots of different things, illustration, and then you could choose your specialism.

17:52Vyshali Sardesai:And it was then when I went to and did that course, sorry, that I realized my love of architecture. I just there was something about it. I love 3D sculpture. I totally understood where my dad was coming from in terms of giving me that good advice that I could also be an artist on the side I could feel this passion into the kind of architectural side which I really loved and Vish can you tell me about how this space has been like kind of structurally put together and how that applies to the workplace yeah so again you know you've got lots of different types of activities and things going on around King's Cross and this whole area the diversity of whether it's an office a restaurant a shop some public art that you can kind of hang out in it's no different in terms of relating that to especially now where we're trying to really create this destination I call it 3.0 it's post-covid it's we've gone down a a different route of learning now in terms of what people may or may not want I just really love the fact that you can have lots of different experiences within little stepping stones of each other almost yeah because i love that it's not just a shopping center and it's not just an art gallery it's not just a restaurant it's like yeah and there's so much like empty space to sort of be creative and breathe yeah it's quite hectic around king's cross station anyway right so we felt that as we were walking through the energy just shifted yeah we're here now and and again it's just a bit calmer but there's still a little you know it's like creating that fizz you feel that fizz right yeah no i love it it is so true isn't it like how it's yeah can't explain it right but you can feel it which is great and i love that that's the kind of excitement i get like when a client feels it as well you know it's like we're both feeling it yeah we're on the same page yeah this is what i love in like workplace but these little easter eggs that where you might like find that little places to sit exactly and the first time you come you don't see it and you don't have to see it yeah but you come again you might discover on the third or the fourth time and i love that like kind of when that's in the office as well because this is drawing people to it before it used to repel you've just kind of said that and then that now it's drawing people to it and it's how can we do that it's very cliche isn't it that i draw people into the office and the commute it's like so boring to say it but to actually deliver it in a really like compelling way i think you know we're humans at the end of the day right so it's about creating those connections with your colleagues what I love about this and this is my little version of the high line in New York it's about as close as I can get if I can't get to New York you know yeah and you know that is again a phenomenal example of urban regeneration and how something so simple was actually trying which is left for dead really and then completely transformed the whole area and I love this you know and again how do we translate that into into my work well I just love the fact that there's somewhere to sit and connect with somebody.

20:55Vyshali Sardesai:It's surrounded by green. So we're thinking about health and well-being and all of those things as well. And then, of course, you know, there's lots of natural light. It's open. It's really fluid. Don't feel restricted, you know. So all of those kind of feelings. It's feelings, right? That's what we're creating. Yeah, no, I love it. And then you've got a bit of Heatherwick, you know. You've got a bit of Starquitex stuff going on. and I mean you know what can't ask for any more really can you it's it's really good I just love looking at the facades as well like knowing that all that heritage is there you've inputted these little new futuristic little elements you know so whether it's a you know a window of a shop or a restaurant where people are sitting together eating you know what's nice is how it tells a story isn't it and it's like rather than that's when people that's why I think like regeneration is so beautiful it's because it's not just like a smash down load of stuff and build a new thing in like perfection but to actually take what's there remold it reshape it like keep the history injects a modern way of life and movement and all that sort of thing yeah bring the two together makes this that kind of complete like kind of holistic kind of experience and i'm more of a creative designer as opposed to more technical bias so for me storytelling is such a huge part of my job and i need to be able to relay that story the feelings the experience what the emotions whatever it is not just articulate articulate it well but be able to show that as well and that's I think then I can either do a doodle or it's a 3D render or, you know, whatever my tools are to be able to relay that story.

22:44Vyshali Sardesai:I will use that toolkit to be able to give my client the best experience that they can get. Yeah, no, it's amazing. And when you're taking a brief from a client, how do you dig into that kind of history and storytelling piece? Mostly, you know, I've gotten quite lucky. clients are really open um but there are ways of being able to get more information out of out of the client more more importantly is so so we can create something much more powerful for them yeah you know it's more about that and so asking the right questions listening really well and being able to translate what they've told you is really important you know yeah answering their their questions but also coming up with something new to kind of get them quite excited um to create that fizz in the room you know it's really about digging in and understanding their heritage and their history but not in a boring way like yeah yeah how do we translate that into something new you know um so yeah i love that that part of it because i think is that mainly through face to face time questioning yeah i think so yeah i mean sometimes clients have really good data to give you or information or you know but generally I think you know it's spending time with with that client or within that company to kind of absorb their brand and and understand what's what's happening so for me brand's not about the color of your business card or the that color on a wall it's about being able to live and breathe your brand values in that space I have to be able to create that space so people can do that right no totally that's how i try and approach it so i love this the you know i mean that's just it's fantastic to see it framed in that in that heritage kind of architecture all the original brick work they've done a really good job of preserving it's like battersea actually yeah i love battersea love battersea power station and what they've so well done yeah i love that you can go up in the chimney and there's this amazing have you done I haven't been up the journey, the 360 view thing.

24:51Vyshali Sardesai:It's amazing. Is it cool? Yeah, it's really cool. I'm actually absolutely obsessed about their planting scheme. It's really dry. It's really like, it's all the same everywhere. It's not, but like at first glance, and it's just so calm. Yeah. It's just so beautiful. And yeah. The details are beautiful. The way they've kind of opened up the power station and the way the floors merge and stuff from concrete to timber. and the little textures of like the metals that they've used it's got that real like masculine industrial feel but then it's kind of quite gentle as well somehow like the lighting and the fragrance yeah it just works it's been done really really well i mean i love that right i mean it was a gas holder and now it's an amazing residential apartments or whatever the best it's phenomenal like that is a great example of kind of preserving the heritage but transforming it into something completely new it's very clever isn't it it's so cool i mean that gives me a real kick i get really like i love that it's genius isn't it to do that somewhere that was completely wasted and people talk about sustainability and people talk about storytelling and but when you regenerate like this you don't have to be sustainable or you don't have to storytell like because it's automatically there because you don't have to try it just lands on your lap doesn't it i really love the way those perforated panels you can see one of those are opened up yeah one of the balconies but you can kind of fold them and close them oh wow so you can get you can get privacy from like the office buildings and things and kind of vary your lights uh going into the apartment i think so yeah that's so cool isn't it?

26:35Vyshali Sardesai:Isn't it great? How cool. It's 1880 man. It's proper old. Proper old. Is that older than that? Oh hell yeah. So I love coming down here because this, after the hustle and bustle of Kings Cross Station, it suddenly gets so calm and quiet and there's a, where the boats kind of change and they they kind of go through there so just to stand there and watch that which takes forever for the water to go down yeah the locks and stuff but it it really forces you to just breathe chill patience yeah in today's world where everything's click click yeah yeah well that's the thing everything's a super speed so yeah i think it's really good for your brain to have a different type of stimulus from time to time you know work can be quite long hours it can be really really hectic but fun how can you design in spaces into the workplace where people slow down and mood lighting um the different types of you know um diversity of the finishes it all has that psychological impact on people you know you have to take into account all of those things to be able to create something that's a bit softer in terms of space yeah um where people don't even realize that their breathing has slowed down or changed the rhythm has changed you know so it's creating different rhythms within a space it's so important nowadays as well with this whole pressure of getting people back into the office and all of this kind of thing that we're always talking about i think the easiest solution is to is to create spaces that are diverse on on the one on the one floor to be able for people to be able to have that change up you know yeah but then it's also like that as well as and for the people because people are always on they've got their phone on them and always on you've got that doctor's appointment or you've got the kid at school or you've got like just life happening yeah um so for people at work to be able to um kind of slow down and have that safe space to be themselves or whatever they're more likely to come in it's not unproductive it's productive yeah yeah yeah i think this is the circle space of the mirrors i've never seen it in my life yeah so this is gas holders park again this you know just it gives you a great opportunity to just watch people and um it's a lovely little kind of magical space and that's been kind of embedded in all of these kind of big structures and stuff but i love the kind of mirrored effect and everything it you know the light it it creates when you look you can see all the greenery you can see the water you can see the architecture isn't it yeah it's like it's not quite real yeah it's like and i love it you know in the summer you know you can see you can actually you can hear the school kids there's a school there so they'll some of the classes will come out and use this space and or families with young kids come in and kind of just hang out in this area and the kids are running around and it's just a really lovely space.

29:47And this is all like an old Gus.

29:50Vyshali Sardesai:Yeah yeah so you can see all the original structure still there so I just yeah I love that. You can also check how messy my hair is. Go for it check your hair. But you know I mean you just get to see phenomenal kind of British engineering and you know from. You could be a tour guide couldn't you? Could I? You know you totally could couldn't you my second job yeah this is where i think when we get to the workplace we design these beautiful things and and you really do but i feel like there's a piece of storytelling that needs to happen and you can't physically go there and induct every newcomer saying this is why we did this this is why we did that but it's how to bring that to life don't know it's always something that i sort of feel is a bit of a challenge to the story is embedded in and from design from the designers they're great at that and then how can it be told?

30:41Vyshali Sardesai:Yeah I think because of my wanting to be an artist thing I was very fine art based when I started my degree you know I had no idea how to do the technical drawing or how things were put together how do you build you know I just I always saw the vision um you know and so a space like this kind of feels like I'm at home so it's quite abstract it's a place it's real people use it but but it's different and, you know, not your normal kind of park kind of scenario, I guess. I've realised actually that I do a lot of that in my work today, where I'm taking new spaces and trying to not reinvent them necessarily, but take the client, what they want, what they need, and then repurposing it for something else.

31:26Vyshali Sardesai:So that really, really excites me. And just the way they've done that with this park and the gas holders, it's a good demonstration of that. I mean, just the way the mirrors are just reflecting off of everything that's going on, whether it's green or whether it's really industrial, it's created something like this third space almost, which is wonderful. So here we are. Anyway, we've made it to our destination, the circle. So thanks for that journey. You're welcome. That was really, really interesting. Now we've seen all of that and like we've seen in your head and your creative outlook and your sketching and your love for regeneration and architecture.

32:01like what is your favorite actual workplace project so taking all of the things that we've

32:07Vyshali Sardesai:done today i think i translate it i mean for me i think my favorite type of project is retrofit i love taking an old building and completely transforming the use of it the way people experience it luckily enough in london especially but in the uk generally now because of sustainability it's it's really important that we um reuse and repurpose these old buildings we've got some beautiful old building stock you know so totally to have to pull that down and stick a glass box up would be just so disheartening yeah so for me it's that so i've i've i've been really lucky i've managed to be able to work with lots of landlords and property developers throughout my career to be able to inject some of that transformation type design work yeah yeah and you've worked at loads of like the big d &b firms haven't you like trad as well yeah yeah so i did 15 years in trad um yeah a long old time um but i i loved it i was uh very fortunate i've worked for some really great practices so um maurice smith uh bdg architecture um yeah perkins and will so i've had quite a diverse experience and project experiences all three practices quite different in the way they work.