Designing offices that feel more human with Lizzie Hand

0:00Your brain's like at peace and calm. You're not putting pressure on being creative. I think that's what's quite hard of a creative role. There's always that pressure to think of a new idea. Think of something that hasn't been done before. And realistically, most things have been done before. So it's finding a new unique way to do that new thing. Put your own stamp on it. three years after we've started this podcast we thought it was time to make sure that those lessons and the takeaways from our amazing guests were actually actionable something you can really put into place so we have launched show notes a bi-weekly email get into your inbox and that will give you the key headlines that is indexable findable actionable we can really start to make a difference in creating healthy happy workspaces so the link's below or you can head to stansons.co.uk forward slash space look forward to seeing you sign up hey welcome to our next episode of where i go with space by stansons and today i'm with lizzie hand designer at third way nice welcome lizzie thank you so much i've never been to this park it's absolutely beautiful i actually feel like I might not be in England because the weather's perfect.

1:20Yeah I think the weather's helping today because it's so hot and sunny it's so lovely yeah. Absolutely wicked so peaceful I had a chaotic journey in but then get here zen do you know what I mean? Yeah so zen. Kicking off Lizzie why do you pick this place for your where I go? So I only moved to East London about a year ago didn't really know the area and I kind of just looked for my local green and this was it and everyone said oh have you been to Vicky Park they do festivals here there's always like drinks and markets on on a Sunday and I thought oh okay and like my walk here is lovely it's along the canal so you know you walk along the water you get here and it just opens up and it's beautiful you come in and you think it's just this bit but it keeps going and dogs are welcome here joggers are here it's quite a nice community I like being in nature it helps me like the work day is quite sitting at a desk right I mean you say you're creative which is definitely a very creative role but it's still sat at a desk all day 100 % so do you come here on your own or with people both like I think a Sunday ritual me and my flatmate come here we walk around it's about a half an hour walk so you get a nice walk come here get a coffee walk around walk back and it's like a nice Sunday morning thing to do how often do you come a week probably once a week yeah Do you come here to like unwind or get energy?

2:43I think unwind How do you get your energy? How do I get my energy? Probably like going out with friends in a bigger group when it's more sociable Like this is probably like I come with one person or on my own Energy comes from like I think for me being in like crowds And like being in a busy pub or something like that Yeah People person People person yeah yeah yeah yeah Wicked and if this bench could speak what would it tell me about you i think i'm quite a positive person i'm quite bubbly and chatty yeah i think quite smiley like generally like it's cool what a great start well yeah what a great start well from a place to be it's so interesting how many people are connecting to nature like you say like yeah even like modern generation it's not all about screens it's not all about like desks people are getting out they're experiencing nature connection and calm it's just so wildlife yeah yeah yeah yeah water i think water's a big thing and hearing it with the fountain yeah it can actually improve your cognitive memory yeah so you study you study by the sound of water you recall it better apparently there we go we're onto something let's go let's walk around see where see where we're at yeah cool so this is the main pond but there's also a canal right yeah so the canal's kind of we might not see it but it will be like behind that tree line yeah um but yeah this is the main canal that people do like paddle boarding and like little paddle boats and it's quite fun filled with families so when you're designing spaces like how do you like bring a bit of this feeling because this is a wicked feeling that i'm picking up how do we get that in the office i think like main thing is always utilizing natural light so it's like with the open plan i think it's figuring out the priority spaces and where you want to bring in natural light to feel like you're connected to that outdoor space especially in like the city centre where it's not maybe massively green yeah and then I think like thinking of smell like your five senses really like you can hear the water um so if there's any opportunity to like resemble water within a space yeah that sound or texture maybe like a mirrored surface or something that just gives that yeah reflection of water I love that idea mirror reflecting water yeah never heard that's cool yeah it's just trying to bring in that nature I mean obvious one would be like color or green yeah you know like bringing that in and what about the other senses can you ever get sound into an office do you have or have you ever yeah I mean it's interesting like I think a lot of um clients do like having speakers around the office it might be more of an experience we put into like the reception area or if they have like a big all-hands breakout area yeah i am designing a project at the moment for a client who's wanting a hi-fi speaker in their exec lounge which is super cool so it'll be a bespoke speaker that i need to design with some yeah with specialists and that's so that they can give their execs the experience of listening and like so they wind down to music they're going to have this room that they can bring clients to or internally they can listen to music that they want as a kind of retreat which is something I've never done before I've never heard of it before yeah it's super cool I've never heard of it even that's well very cool then like smell as well do you pick up on that at all like talking about the five senses Do you ever get to design smell, work with fragrance?

6:18We went, I did a showroom tour looking at vaniture and finishes. And we went into one of the showrooms, I think it was Carl Hansen. And instantly the client picked up the smell and it was an incense. So I took a picture of it because they want us to do their styling, pictures, artwork, planting, accessories. So I think that's something we might actually think about is putting like incense in. because it is the part of the whole experience so much so yeah there we go there we go sometimes yeah totally happening so what's a design trend that's like so overrated putting like um biophilia walls in or just filling a space with loads and loads of plants um i think there's more like creative ways you can bring in the outdoors and the nature for me like I think moss walls can be stunning and beautiful but at the same time you don't see moss walls in in the nature so it's not actually reflective of what you'll see outdoors.

7:21I like playing with like fabrics and textures that kind of bring tactile elements into the design. And what's something that's like that's missing that you would want to get in offices that you feel was missing underrated i would say probably um more spaces for collaboration and stuff i think it's coming in massively um but there's kind of a blur now between office design and hospitality design and i think that's for me really encouraged a lot of people can still be unsure if collab tables will be used or if circular tables will be used but i think kind of creating a workspace a space where there isn't hierarchy is really lovely.

8:03Spaces where people can connect, talk, not just sat at a desk. I think it creates a more positive environment for people. How do they get those spaces to be used or design those spaces so they're actually utilised and they're not just like a dead spot? Because that used to be, didn't it? Yeah, I think it's like making them functional. So, you know, basic things like you need power for laptops. like if you've got to pose a table and it doesn't have any power you know that's going to limit someone to probably half an hour before the laptop might die I think also location so it's like if you're figuring out where your quiet or loud areas are you don't want to put this creative bubbly brainstorming loud environment right by kind of fixed desk that people are going to want to get their head down and work so it's zoning and I think it's always quite good when you start space planning to almost a zonal plan so you're figuring out where your loud areas are where your collaborative working is where your individual working is and work around that and if you had any budget like literally unlimited budget and you could do the wildest thing what's the first space you would create probably like a water fountain feature like in reception like a i don't know some kind of statue figure because imagine us listening to the water like trickling I think it would create a lot of attention if clients would come in it would give a great time to the receptionist who's got to stay there all day.

9:34That is literally the best answer. Yeah I think that would be so cool. That is literally would be so cool you'd need to loo all the time but that doesn't matter. Yeah that's true. But it is cool so that we're going with that I love it. Just something about nature is just so clever isn't it like I'm really glad you picked this part because I'm actually just quite enjoying walking around yeah it's really nice isn't it so chilled this is actually a thing for office isn't it trying to get it like a nice level of busy so it's not lonely or sterile or yeah like sort of lacking energy but not so busy that it's kind of overwhelming overwhelming there's not the spaces you feel like cramped so that balance is there a ratio for that because this part's got it right yeah i think there definitely is i think that's like figuring out so we barely now will put in one desk per person for an office to say if they're they've got staff of 100 people it's likely that we'll put in 60 to 70 desks most offices are offering that hybrid work but also it's accounting that people aren't sat at their desks all day you might have people in meetings You might have people in the club area, so you don't need a fixed desk all day, every day.

10:47Yeah, and I think balancing the different types of working environments does that in terms of how busy or quiet or loud space can be. What's the coolest design feature you've actually seen done in a space, either you've done it or seen by someone else? I think when they have like outdoor space, if there's like a nice terrace space, I mean, it's somewhere, you know, a lot of people in the heat don't want to come to work. But if an office space were having an outdoor terrace space for someone to come in, that would be really cool. Yeah. Somewhere, you know, you can hang out with your staff on lunch break.

11:25Yeah. That would be cool. Everything you say in the coolest way leans towards nature. And I'm absolutely. Hence why we're here. Yeah, I am absolutely all for it. I just, it's so, yeah, it's hence why we're here. It's just, it's brilliant. It's so cool that someone is so in tune with it as well. Yeah. Like I think it makes a big difference and more and more people that we speak to, I'm hearing that. Yeah. In the nicest way. So it's interesting how we can bring in biophilia without just doing plants, like just doing moss walls. Yeah. it's a lot deeper than that a lot deeper I think so yeah not even like a roof terrace I think what a cool idea yeah makes a big difference I'm personally like drifting off into just like this very zen space do you know what I mean and it's it's really it's really pleasant I almost don't want to think does that make a thing like when you yeah I think that is like a big thing sometimes as a creative you're thinking all the time about something or what can I do what how can I be creative and honestly ideas normally come when you're not thinking yeah that's why the shower a sound of water yeah um yeah yeah ideas will come to me at really random times like yeah on weekends or in the shower classic but yeah they do because you just your brain's like at peace and calm you're not putting pressure on being creative I think that's what's quite hard of a creative role is there's always like pressure yeah think of a new idea think of something hasn't been done before yeah and realistically most things have been done before yeah so it's finding a new unique way to do that new like thing yeah um put your own stamp on it yeah you do have to I mean it's just it's just like anything isn't it with fitness you have to have rest days yeah we've like with working you have to have annual leave like with anything you can't do everything like full tilt all the time and being creative you need that step back that like okay no pressure now and then that's when it all comes piling in yeah we need to how we can create those um these those pockets of spaces in offices where people can decompress and yeah relax and yeah i think everyone has like a different way of decompressing so i think that's when it's really important to get to know your client and what they like yeah like as I mentioned earlier with this hi-fi speaker and that probably wouldn't be how I would decompress but this is how they will and it's something that they're really passionate about and really excited for so yeah I mean everyone you're designing a space people are investing in it you want them to enjoy it and you want it to be personable to that client I think that's really important yeah how do you actually get to really know your client like deeper than surface level I hate the saying under the skin so I'm just going to go deeper than surface level like I actually really understand that yeah I think like it's just being very transparent meeting expectations so it's not selling them the dream and then not delivering it's being really open and honest having conversations and accepting feedback I think as a designer it can be quite hard because you might put design together and it might not always go down swimmingly like there might be feedback I think it's just been able to have that communication with the client always be on the end of the phone like give them a call yeah if you want their opinion I think they like feeling involved I mean every client's a bit different but I think everyone likes to feel that they have a voice and they're being heard yeah I think bringing people on the journey bringing people on the journey yeah 100 % and obviously some people don't want to and that's again yeah and then that's again yeah I can see that some people haven't got the time they don't want it done for them some people are more and you can often gauge that pretty quick to be honest yeah how involved a client would like to be yeah um they often say it to be honest too so yeah I know what you mean about this park opening up I feel like I've actually been in like lots of different places yeah this feels kind of like Kew Gardens you know all the flowers.

15:47I was going to Hampton Courtie yeah like it's very smart and very symmetrical and yeah it's all like very perfect whereas before it's a bit more wild it's kind of nice to have those pockets right yeah it's really pretty really pretty it's quiet this is probably the quietest I've seen this park should come on a tuesday morning more often yeah your start to the day like it's perfect isn't that so when you were 10 would you have ever imagined living somewhere like this so when i was younger i always wanted to be in london like i was a bit of a yeah i used to just find it fascinating like birthdays or experiencing the blue mom's moving to london have a day out like i'm from portsmouth so i'm not like family aren't here I just loved the busyness the hustle and bustle of it yeah and then I got a bit older and I thought oh god it's quite like I don't know I think in my industry I was almost a bit scared of London like design and builds quite quite something it's quite busy it's quite intense and I think I was almost a bit fearful of the London intimidating by the London design and build my first E &B job was out in Hampshire so you know I could dapple into London but it wasn't full time but yeah when I got a job that was like more often in London I thought I'm gonna make the move and I love it I wouldn't I don't know if I'll go back they say once you come in you don't go back out of London sucks you in but and what would you say to your 10 year old self honestly just always follow your gut like you might not quite know where you want to do what you want to do where you want to go and that's absolutely fine I didn't I always change my mind I feel like a bit in you always knows what you what you want and like be influenced by your friends and family but at the end of the day do what you like want to do people will come and go and like yeah are you surprised how confident you are now compared to what you were when you were younger yeah i think so no i think like i don't know i was kind of say average i don't think i was ever super shy but I wasn't an extroverted kid.

18:02I think a lot of it's like the people you meet. It's been really nice. And I do think London definitely gives you a bit of a hard shell. But yeah, I think the more you put yourself out there, the more confident you'll get. Who is your biggest inspiration? I actually don't know. I don't know. I like that. Yeah, I don't know. Here we go. Do you have a biggest inspiration? That's a really good question. It's really difficult. cool um i don't know no not really it also would depend where like i'm quite inspired by someone like ben francis i think he's done really well but that's quite business see yeah creatively and artistically no not really i sort of feel like i absorb lots of things and then i make it my own yeah so it's so widespread that's nice that's really cool actually it's not supposed to put it Yeah.

18:53I don't know. There's probably different inspirations for different things. I should also definitely say my wife, she's got really good people skills and really good at holding boundaries, knowing where she's going and why she's going there. And she's taught me a lot of that. Oh, that's nice. So that's a good inspiration. There we go. There we go. Well, I love the answer. That's my top one. Top one. Yeah. I do agree, though. Life is so much about finding the right people, whether it is it's at work like who your boss is or who your colleagues are or your partners in life and yeah your network who you can bounce ideas yeah it's just like the more you can build that up like and you always burn yourself as well don't you yeah which is kind of yeah I think it's not not always up you will have massive downs you think oh my god what have I done but you've just got to keep going um I mean I was like the only friend to move out of my hometown so I was the only one to go to uni and then the only one to move away so it was quite a big thing like I left everyone behind um didn't know anyone in London other than a couple of uni friends that are like dotted around um so it's quite scary yeah like it's starting again um but now I wouldn't like don't look back yeah um yeah I think even on the down that you mentioned like the biggest downs I think still it is an up though because you're still learning yeah you maybe learned what not to do or like or how i was chatting with someone about this the other day like the people that are the worst to us actually teach us how to be because i won't be like i ain't gonna do that i'm not doing that everything's got a positive so yeah if you had a hundred pound what would you spend it on probably a nice day out to be honest i mean a hundred pounds i'd say a holiday but it's probably not going to quite cover that um so yeah i'd say a nice day out i'd say like coffee in the morning, go out for some lunch or brunch with friends, go sit somewhere with a nice view, enjoy a glass of wine, have some nibbles.

20:55I like sharing plates with people rather than like a full meal, full dinner. That's well spent£100. Yeah. So it's not a lot of money but there's a lot of like memories and experience. Yeah I think it's memories. Yeah yeah yeah 100%. That's cool. what's three things that's always in your bag um hairbrush my air pods lip balm yeah are you heels or trainers trainers yeah early bird or night owl neither like just middle of the day it's my prime um exhausted pigeon i've heard someone say yeah literally just constantly tired dogs and cat or cats dogs cool and are you a runner or a trainer workout weightlifting oh weightlifting yeah I've got quite into it this year um so yes I do like going to the gym after work that's my wind down yeah I think I know the answer to this party or book party is that what you thought yeah definitely yeah yeah would you walk or cycle well yeah cycle probably now in london yeah i think cycle everywhere at the moment yeah um yeah that's cool that's it well everyone thank you so much for coming on us for this walk through victoria park got i don't know just i've literally really enjoyed this i've felt probably my calmest yeah yeah yeah it's nice very um zen so great nuggets of information there what we can pull from the park and put it into workplaces in a loose in an aspiring way which is great so thanks lizzie it's okay and until next time like and follow the show and we will be recording the next one in the meantime see you later thank you bye i find it simply fascinating how physical space can totally change how we think feel and behave meaning it can pause distractions it can connect us it can mean we do our very best work and that's where stansons steps in this show is created by Stansons who design, make and install curtains and acoustics to create the perfect environment for people to flourish and do their very best work.

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