Inside Lloyds' 250M London Workspace Revolution: Mastering Non-Traditional, Digital-First Design with Paula Rowntree

0:01We had a lot of people that were really quite happy working from home and no real interest, couldn't see the benefit of coming back into work. But really as humans we have this deep ingrained sense of humanity. We need to socialise with people. We need to connect and have that human interaction. It starts to sort of really stifle us and we start to really go in on ourselves. It's really not healthy. Welcome to another episode of Space by Stansons. Today I am with Paula Rowntree, Head of Workplace design there we go got it right um lloyd's banking group and i'm so pumped about this tour and i've been around with and the design lead a few weeks ago saw it i bank with lloyd's bank so i'm thinking i should know everything that there is to know about lloyd's bank but i don't um honestly the space is just another level in terms of accessibility sustainability people crucives it's it's just so it's so thought about and there's so many like little moments when you're walking around which we're going to get the whole tour um that you think oh i never thought of that and honest it's just mental it's so cool it's so like refreshing i guess so if you are listening on spotify or apple you can go to video on spotify you can go to youtube as well and you can like see it as well but i'll try and explain it as well for anyone that isn't able to watch it so welcome Paula thank you so much for having us we are very excited to be here very excited to be doing this and um quite a build-up yeah no it is cool um I love I love seeing spaces and this is like an exceptional one so thank you yeah you are head of workspace design I am for three years yeah and you opened this in May I opened this uh yeah March actually so March it was opened um but it's probably been about two and a half years in planning um so yeah huge huge task and how many square foot it is oh uh not off the top of my head but um 11 floors nine workable um and we've got everything from a kind of rooftop terrace boardroom and exec suite um working floors trader floors right the way down to event space broadcast studio work cafe um so this is our flagship space um if you like uh in london um so yeah a lot of a lot of time and effort gone into designing it and building it amazing and we're getting notes from edel who i'm who is a design lead on the project as well so we're not going to miss her out we're going to loop her in on the her and get her bits and pieces because she's great um and so back to this what was the brief so the brief uh when we first came in um was um so obviously like most companies we'd had a lot of offices um we had just gone through covid um lots of people had gone home and um were quite happily working at home and the business was kind of setting out what did it want to do need to do for the future um we had a new um a new CEO in Charlie and then a new um people in places director with uh Sharon um Doherty who's been amazing and a real mentor and um sort of support uh with this uh and I think when when she came in and we were um chatting about this um sort of brief to to kind of regalvanize our office estate so fewer fewer better buildings was really the kind of sort of ultimate brief so like those companies were consolidating because we didn't need quite as much space as we used to have but we wanted to create better spaces to really encourage people to come back into the office but to enjoy being in the office and we've only got used to be working from home you know it's quite hard to compete with your kitchen and your tap at the local and just you know you feel sort of more in control I think of your lives but but I think we'd also got quite agoraphobic even what does that mean what's that agoraphobic and so um within when we when we were in Coop it's the two years of really not sort of being out and socializing with people I think for a lot of people it was kind of quite scary to actually get back out yeah um so you know it it it had people had to go through a change curve um and everybody sort of you know like reacted differently to that so and we had a lot of people that were really quite happy working from home and no real interest couldn't see the benefit of coming back into work um and so but but really as humans we have this deep ingrained sense of humanity we need to socialize with people you know we need to connect and have that human interaction um you know it starts to sort of really sort of stifle us and we start to really go in on ourselves it's really not healthy um is that applied to everybody that every character type would you say has that need i would say so yes i think um i think there are some there's some evidence on the sort of neuro spectrum yeah and that i think within that um sometimes there are cases of people like you know they actually are at their best selves when um they work um more from home or or in sort of more um quieter sort of less stimulation and type spaces um but having had conversations um with people they still have a they still have a a rooted connection to people it's not like i never talk to anybody it's like no i still i still need human interaction but just maybe not quite to the same level as perhaps another person might do um you know and that that's okay um you know that really is okay so so the brief for this um space we we we really started right back with um you know well what was it we're trying to do so strategically we're all about helping Britain prosper um we wanted to encourage our people to come back into the workspace um we also um so I do I do retail design as well so it's quite nice on the retail design because you have a brand DNA and you have a blueprint and you kind of work to that but with office it was a bit like well what is what is the objective what's the purpose so we looked at the employee value proposition and we said right well what how do we you know how do we want people to be talking about us externally if they were going to come and work for us or if they were interested in working for us so there's a piece of research done at the time and we asked people to sort of say so what do you think about when you think about Lloyd's and I think well we met this morning you were saying well I thought it was a bit boring and a bit traditional and a bit like you know blah and that was the sort of you know that was the words that people were using at the time and we're saying well that's not really what we want people to say we want people to say that we're modern and that we're cutting edge and we're you know digital first and we're sort of technically you know really sort of a real competent technical um sort of company that we want people to come and be really excited about sort of working um for us um so my brief was to design buildings um and space that would really you know start to get people talking more like that than previous um so our current buildings were very gray very beige very boring um so basically capsulated all the original words so it's so surprising really that people were were sort of talking about us in that in that sort of way um so when we started to create these buildings um you know we did surveys and things and we said right how are you you know tell us how you feel about this and we were getting the words in that we really wanted um so people were starting to say oh my god it's amazing it's cool it's really modern it's just really collaborative we you know we can do so much more and we can you know we can be our best and we're actually wanting to come into work so it's like yes you You know, that is exactly what we, you know, what we really set out to achieve.

8:04That's amazing. And it's when you actually first did the survey about what people wanted from the office, was the feedback what you expected? No. So we asked people, I think we went in quite naively and just, you know, we had what we call sanding boards. So groups of people that had similar jobs together. um and we um got panel and we sat and had questions and saying what you what's the workplace future and resoundingly it was like um well I'd like heat light a desk good chair tech that works yeah that's about it right okay all right well interesting we can we can do that and so that was our perspective but didn't really give us a lot to you know to kind of work with so we did a lot of outside in thinking so we went and had a look at you know what um some of the big tech companies were like because they were the ones that were really already kind of you know when we talked about those kind of buildings and what we'd seen on them they were like really cool and modern and you know funky and and all the rest of it so i went to visit google and um we were looking at case studies i'd have loved to have gone to california but nobody would sign off the budget but I know the LinkedIn um I think in uh I think it's San Francisco they've got an amazing building um and so they they were one of the best ones that I kind of you know they really thought through the design really really considered um you know they'd really thought through about the experience um from literally from when you walked in to um how um you sort of navigated the building and everything so we took a lot of I took a lot of insight from there um and so um yeah we do some outside in thinking and then we have um the groups of um people within the business that really help the business with lots of different things so what we could do and what we did was we tapped into each of these specific like characteristic type groups um and we said to them right what would what would make an amazing building um for you and that's where we started to get um flavor you know we started to get more less of the vanilla oh well if you just if you just give me a cone with some vanilla ice cream on it i'm fine we started to get ah for me i would really like it if we could have this and so that's when we started to kind of really you know pull out um things that we could do differently that would really make an amazing experience for different types of people yeah um and and that was that was brilliant and then were those feedbacks conflicting at all yes oh yeah totally and so there were certain things that if you did if you some things in a particular way then it was going to conflict um with you know with others um so you know if you do certain things um from a neurodiversity perspective that's not great for people that are maybe partially sighted you have to get sort of you know be able to see sight lines but then if you have it too colorful then people with neurodiversity it can be triggering so there's lots of little nuances so we kind of put it in a big melting pot and um as i say linkedin were the ones that um i thought had the best design so i completely plagiarized them um and we started to think about how we created um sorts of texture throughout the building so you know you're always going to get when you first come into a building it's always going to be noisy when you arrive so the lift is going to be noisy there's going to be chatter when you come out of the lift um you know it's just inevitable so why don't we just capitalize on that then and we say that's where we'll put our kitchenettes that was that's where we'll put our collaboration space we'll centralize the noise together as close to the lift as we can or close to the entrance into the floor and then the further you come away from that the quieter that it will get so it's a bit like a deep end and a shallow end of a of a swimming pool you know it's like create all the noise at one end and then create as far away from that so if so then you're creating choice basically um so if it's somebody who you know really doesn't like smell you know smell is a real trigger for them it's like well you need to be as far away from the kitchenette as possibly can be so if you pick a desk like down there then you're going to be absolutely fine if you're somebody that really values noise and vibrancy okay get get yourself a desk that's a little bit closer to the kitchen there and you can pick how far you know what's the best scenario for you um and then you'll get you know the kind of space that is right for you so we we've really kind of been doing a lot to to really sort of educate and communicate um to colleagues that you know it's not about this is your desk and therefore you have to suffer because you don't quite like that light it's saying no here's the zone where your team is going to be you figure out what is the right sort of space for you that is going to give you the best you know space if you like for you but we're creating lots of choice within there um and we'll see some of that when we when we kind of walk around we can show you some of the different sort of spaces and things like that that we've that we've put all together yeah no that would be amazing and yes i'm going to get straight i know you're all dying to see the space inside lloyd's hq but i have got a question for paula which i think i've been dying to ask i don't blame you if you are too but paula this office like gray desks i'm picturing um all these white walls gray carpet yeah um people come back into this and what we're about to see like i i just go down the whole route of like workplace culture productivity talent acquisition talent retention oh my boom like there's so much there like how has that changed the business what's the feedback been oh it's it's i mean it was a fundamental part of the brief really was you know going from the words on the on the page to be sort of you know traditional blah boring to you know um cool modern funky tech enabled that's a huge thing right and it's more than just you know a physical space i mean there's been a whole um sort of you know culture um shift there's been multiple programs that you know my job is just to you know like really bring the space to to life and to think about how we do that um but some of the things that we we deliberately set out to do were things that you know we we kind of wanted people to go really you do you're doing that oh that's a bit different to to kind of make them reframe in their mind what lawyers banking group was all about because you know we've got people in this building in another building so if maybe you worked with a company then we were just brand new and they're starting and to them this is like this is normal it's like wow this is this is great this is this is the job i signed up to because this is what how you talked about it um when I was in the job application or the interview process or I came for an interview and it was in a space like this this is amazing this is what I'm expecting to other people like me this is my 37th year within the bank and I've seen it through all the phases I know thank you um started when I was 11 um but um you know for people like me it's like I've seen people go I've seen the bank go through changes so when you come into a building you're like wow I didn't even know work could be like this or could you know it was possible to work in a space like this you can see you know different people with different tenures or just different roles like really responding in you know such a positive um way um we did so before we did um this one in London we did uh Leeds and Manchester um last year so got a lot of learnings and in Leeds um we did a bit of survey out afterwards and things like that and I think 92 percent of colleagues said that the place was so was was better than they thought it was going to be and that there was you know their working life was sort of so much improved and we were like yeah that's amazing what about the apes then because we're perfectionists but you know to get that kind of a response right just gave us a lot of reassurance yes that we were on the right track so then to do this one um you know we were a lot more confident that we were you know that we were going to get the design right here um to kind of really make that work and it is that isn't it is that continually evolving learning i totally get right super excited let's get on this tour let's go walking around so we are now on the ground floor and it is it is busy like i totally get it it's um two o 'clock um so probably people are finishing up lunch and things but paul is going to take us in.

16:41Yeah, it's I think there's going to be some surprises. Let's go. Yeah. A little whistle stop tour. Yeah. So within the front entrance and what we really want us to do is we're just bring the brand to life. So normally it is green. It's a green brand. And then we've got the horse celebrated throughout the space. But then what we can do with the digital elements, which we'll show you in a second um we can sync everything to celebrate different seasonal activity and then when we have a purple disability we'll do purple um and for other things we'll you know where we can sync the lights we'll sync the lights but otherwise we'll you know we'll kind of celebrate activities through with um some of the digital um the digital networking and the digital screens yeah i want to pick up on this um i don't know because i know it's kind of obvious that you are a digital first brand it's kind of obvious but it actually wasn't for me like I was quite surprised how advanced you were digitally and yeah I don't know like how did this always come come about this living wall so it's probably started um because my background has been in the retail um so the branch design space so a big thing about what we've been doing is um thinking about sustainability so print and paper and posters um is really sort of a thing of the past and it's not very sustainable and you're kind of you know burning that amount of paper and so one of the things we wanted to do was was really think hard about our sustainability agenda but also thinking about how we could communicate to our colleagues and so really what we've done basically is create a digital display network so we have consistency in all of our buildings as well yeah and which is a big part of what we wanted to do so the branding and we've gone for it in this building because it is our HQ but if you go into any of our buildings whether it's here Manchester Leeds in Lio we did um recently you will feel like you're in the brand and the same brand but you sort of feel and experience here and a combination of that has been you know sort of the planting the lighting the you know the kind of finishes um the componentry the digital so if you were in Hyderabad today you would still be seeing this except it would be saying welcome to Hyderabad or welcome to Lloyd's Technology Centre right amazing so we're trying to sort of make sure that you know we've got that communication channel really thought through um so we'll have these kind of screens in our in our front entrance and it's so important to have that familiarity for well neurodiversity but everybody actually like that kind of Well, from brand consistency, but so from that familiarity.

19:21It is. And there's also, we have been, so one of the things we've been really proud of, we started it in the retail space and we transitioned it into the office, is a cultural calendar and a cultural, it's to support different cultural sort of things that are happening throughout the year. So that might be the obvious sort of Christmas. But we also do the Happy Holly with all the kind of, you know, know the bursts of the paint colors and um you know you name it we have probably got it in there right down to mother's day father's day um but really thought about it and worked with you know teams that have been able to kind of inform us to sort of how do we do this in the right way and the best way um so we've got a cultural calendar that just seasonally kind of just happens and we refresh the content and make sure that you know we've got that diversity and inclusion um really sort of coming through right the way you know starting really from as you as you sort of walk in um we've got a so in this space here yeah one of the things that will be coming um end of this year next year is we're going to bring to life the history of the brand so we couldn't quite just ran out of time and thinking space but um we want to bring to life the history because this is a brand that's been around since 1765 i think it is um or certainly lloyd's i think launched in 1765 I think Bank of Scotland's even older which is part of the family um so we want to bring that to life because we've got a huge history um that you know people are really quite fascinated by um so we just want to try and think about how we do that to life in a digital first way yeah that's what I know we're going to think about how we do that and I also want to bring Adele in um Adele could you jump in I'd love to like to um yeah I'd love to bring you in as well because when we were here before you were telling me about the planting, are all these plants real?

21:12Like we're looking over here there's a huge green wall, amazing lighting, living wall. Yeah so everything's real, it has all been considered by our planting partners, Plantaria, so all of the planting that you see is planted within recycled fabric and felt pockets and so they're all planted in there with an irrigation system drip feeding so if you go over and touch and kind of bury your way through you can feel the damp wall so it's a lot of yeah go and have a look at go and feel let's go be able to see a little bit around the edge we dig in there oh yeah it actually is it actually is that i'll show you come and Yeah, come and have a look.

22:03It is actually damp in here. So planteria maintain this. Yes, it's all maintained. It's all on a breather. Not too bad, hey, Bieber. So all of the plants are picked based on the lux levels of the walls. So most of the planting needed around 2 ,000 lux to survive on the interior plants. but as we get down to the bottom of the wall there's only around 500 so the guys actually really looked at the scheme and then picked more shade loving plants that are planted at the bottom of the wall and to actually cope with it because obviously we couldn't blind people at ground level and and we have to work with things like the lights are all set to timers so they have to go off for around eight hours a night to let the plant sleep as well so there's a whole world of learning about kind of horticulture that we've had to do um for the internal planting but it everybody absolutely loves it it definitely gives the wow factor to the space and i don't know if you were saying but this is something we do on a smaller scale at every site yeah that consistency of brand language and that also there's a lot of um science in that around um really helps people in neurodiversity so having a familiarity of when you come into a building look feel wayfinding design really helps people feel really comfortable and they kind of know what to expect um so i think once we've rolled out the program to all of our buildings um i think we should see this a marked difference um for our neurodiverse colleagues um just being able to to just be set at ease really quickly um when they come into the office so it's just amazing the little things that can just make a difference yeah it's worth noting none of the plants in the building are fake they are all real plants we set ourselves a target that we wouldn't do any plastic planting so hopefully nobody's snuck any in but we certainly haven't put any here so yeah they're all all maintained all of the walls are on the drip feed system uh and we have the guys come in and maintain and keep them all yeah that's pretty mental do you know how many parts you've got in the building lots lots so we're now through these barriers and this is like the hub of this is the heart I suppose yeah I mean when we when we first um when we were first looking at the design and the sort of standards that we wanted to do some of the insight that we had was um we had what I would call canteens yeah so a bit like a school canteen and scenario again very busy first thing in the morning very busy at lunchtime dead the rest of the time um so one of the key signature spaces that we wanted to put in was a work cafe so again building on that sort of insight that we had lots of people who maybe had been working from home for quite a long time we're starting to diversify but they were going to their local starbucks so they were finding a nice little coffee shop right and working from there so we were like well why can't we like create that vibe and that energy so if that's what people actually want to do then let's try and create a space um that is like that so if we if we scoot into the yeah i was gonna say can we pull in that and can we bring down with us yeah we'll grab her yeah we'll grab busy chatting with everybody and so this is our work cafe so it's what is it that two o 'clock in the afternoon yeah so two o 'clock in the afternoon you've got a hive of energy um sort of going on and normally be dead obviously it would normally be dead so lots of things that we've done in here we've created um like lots of different furniture types um yeah lots of different furniture types um we have put plug sockets in um so people from come and just work bring their laptop down they can have catch-ups one-to-ones and we really encourage people to kind of use the space all day yeah um because it's a great environment and it's got a kind of a cool vibe to it and my particular favorites are the space store alisades yeah and love these i just think the um yeah the whole space is just you know um super cool i think this one's free up here but um yeah it's like a like a it's like a leveled up cafe and it's like a It is a cafe.

26:13It's like a leveled up cafe. This one here for me, I just love because I think the whole space is just so cool and it's where I gravitate to. So if I'm coming in, I never book a desk because I like seeing the buzz and the vibe and the energy that's sort of coming in here. And the funny thing with this is obviously you feel like you're on complete like show. That's all mirrored. So people are doing their hair. So people are doing their hair or picking their nose or whatever, and you actually see them and you're sitting there going, oh, my goodness. I like that. But, yeah, it's all mirrored. So from a confidentiality perspective, we can see out, they can't see sort of in.

26:51But then every so often you get people sort of like stood literally, you think they're watching and they're actually not. Just doing their hair. That person was just doing their lip. Yeah. They can see. Brilliant. They caught me out the first time. I was like, what are they doing? And then went out and was like, ah, it's a mirror. I have to see that from outside. But we've got these booths. We've also got some really nice big tables. Yeah, those are the Frovy tables. I love these because they give height and dimension. Yeah, it breaks up space. And just interest, yeah, with the planting and the various bits.

27:21Everything's movable, so this whole space can be turned into like a little mini event. Or, you know, if somebody wanted to kind of have a little team sort of space and things like that, then they can absolutely do that. It's nice, isn't it? It's lovely. This is one of my favourite pieces of furniture that's around at the moment. It's just so collaborative. yeah you know so do you end up having events like doing this all out yeah we just move the furniture around really and you know we can put like rows of seats in here or we can just have um they do um so we have a whole workplace experience um team who are amazing and there's a team in each building who are responsible for the community and the culture and the sort of the vibe and energy and things um and they do all sorts of things in here so they had a big breakfast so it's back to school back to back to september um we have a so we have a policy that um we have a flex summer yeah so with the six weeks around about the six weeks of the summer holidays you don't have to come into the office so you can work from anywhere so um you know if you've um i don't know if you're going caravanning for the week and and you're kind of working from there but you know you can see the kids or you just be at home in a garden barbecue quick after after it's a brilliant policy and again it helps with the culture side so it's almost like this week is us back to school if you like as well um so they did a big breakfast this morning so anybody coming in got a free breakfast um and again it was a nice vibe and energy when we we sort of came in this morning so it's lovely they do all sorts um on this um the exchange steps um so we call them the exchange because we really want people to kind of exchange information and conversation so rather than the Spanish steps I think people people call them so for us that's the exchange um and we they sometimes do events on there so I know one day we came in and they had a gospel choir amazing so the acoustics if you imagine right up to the atrium stunning and everybody is like peering out on balconies just getting you know so totally um so it's just it's so amazing those little things that people can you know do I know they've been talking about doing yoga and things like that on the steps and stuff i want to pick up on the exchange i also want to get a doubt um because you were mentioning about um you're mentioning about the food and the well-being adele we wanted to pick up with you on the canteen yes um they lloyd's promote healthy eating like tell me about that what do you offer what don't you offer no chips yeah so as in fries no fries So they're burying the menu loads, all looking to have healthy ingredients, all part of, like you say, the well-being and lifestyle.

30:00This is a canteen essentially, but it's like leveled up 10x into the work cafe. Yeah, exactly. So we do scaled options in all of our sites that are driven by obviously the size of the site, but also location as well. so that varies the menu offering in in certain sites um but yeah all your um all your normal kind of drinking cafe sort of function and then what we call a quick service diner so it's again that kind of thing of promoting healthy food but quick easily readily available you can eat the sort of food that you can easily eat in the cafe but also at your desk as a takeaway so no kind of great big you know three course meals and that sort of stuff and we are trialing various things so we've got what we call our lolly terminals so you can order and order and collect but we're also trying trialing app-based stuff as well so you can order from your desk digital fast yeah exactly so we're trying that at various sites as well so yeah it's been really popular and again just It's getting that consistent effect and expectation across all our sites.

31:09So you don't have to be worried that if you're in a slightly more remote location that you're going to be cut off and stuck with a poorer service. It's getting a really good quality service for all our colleagues. Getting that consistency. Yeah, definitely. How does no fries go down up north? It's a culture shift. we have had a few a few complaints but i think once they um once they experience um the quality of the food it kind of calms down and we're not the only ship in town right if they really want fries though we're very central locations so there will be fries around um if people really want them um but i think we're just trying to do our bit to sort of say you know you can can sort of think about that we also have a gym on site as well which we'll show you and if that go and see the one of the things um is the branding um so we do a lot how the culture side of things yeah and we do a lot um to really bring to life our people and our brands so you'll see the horse and sort of being proudly displayed um this these are our customer heroes and so in every site um these are the people that we have celebrated this year because every single one of these individuals has done something amazing for customers.

32:27So again, we wanted to kind of really bring this to life. And this is something we'll change every year. So every year as we do our awards and celebrate these people. And I just think it's lovely that, you know, they're recognized and they're part of the fabric. It's just really cool. I'm looking to see you, Paula. No, I'm not that good. So this is what you refer to as the exchange steps. Yes. So these are our exchange steps. um so again these this is our sort of space where we can do um events um you'll see people there so this is um a space we really wanted to think about inclusivity um with this side of things so you see a lot of events being run and these you know this is starting to become sort of typical in an office environment and this is such a wow space with a huge screen um you know the the kind of seating area the steps down but this is actually built for wheelchair access so you can get two two wheelchairs in here quite comfortably and part of the audience it's not that you know we had a lot of insight um from colleagues in wheelchairs to say you know don't just make us feel like a bit of an add-on you know that we've suddenly got to be tucked away at the side it's actually let's feel part of the audience which you see at the bottom there's another cut out there where again there's another space for another two wheelchairs um really at the bottom there so we've just really tried to make it feel like you know they are part of the team you know not not to be an add-on or a thought of afterwards you should go down yeah let's go down go down i don't know what's going on today so we'll find out we will find out um so you do see lots of people as i say just you know using the space and this is exactly what we wanted people to collaborate and you know connect because it's busy isn't it like it's not dead it's busy in a healthy a healthy busy in a great great sort of way right first of all for everyone following us So we're walking down these like steps.

34:22There's this huge atrium above. It's worth looking up. Yeah, it's worth looking up. It is worth looking up. What I would also say is I've been here before and it looked completely different. The walls were shut and it was more like separate meeting rooms, whereas now it's quite open. They've obviously got like some kind of talks going on and people having lunch and it just feels quite different. So that's really nice to see that how flexible the space is. exactly what it was designed to do so from here we have something called an all-in which i think happens like twice a year and so we connect every building and we go global as well so we connect up to india new york the other places where we have um our people um and so we get as many people as we can on um and charlie will perhaps be on a stage here and you'll have people here people behind um big screen all sinks um and then we'll connect up to the different sites and it's an amazing um sort of experience to just see everybody kind of come together to celebrate or you know um particularly announcements or things like that so it's just a really a really great initiative um my head around the door is this like would this be used for like training rooms um so these are more sort of events so they can be used for big corporate um sort of events or basically anything so um you know um yeah it looks like they've got some kind of a um a kind of corporate that and then we've got the corporate hospitality this is a different biophilia walls this this is a living wall which is an experiment for us so i wanted to see whether we could do something a bit more tropical so we're trying it um we don't know um this is our tropical wall isn't it so this is more tropical planting so you can see it's a little bit more lush um and i think some things are working and some things are like triffids and they're growing and some things are not quite um but we're learning on this because i just wanted to try and see um we deliberately put some planting in here that i think at certain parts of the year will give us color so because you see well pink pink and orange i think is what's supposed to come through at some point um so again we're just we're just trying and that was just me kind of going you see a lot of living green walls but you don't see a lot of color so it's just like oh i wonder i wonder how and can we actually do that and it might be a complete disaster but that's okay yeah no that's and i'm seeing the food yeah um so this is an event we have got this is an event shawarma chicken supreme the food is mental yeah you've got varrata tomatoes basil you've got um kajat salad um pistea, Greek salad, mixed leaves.

37:02You've got little falafel burgers, onion barges and chicken bao buns. So you can see the diversity, but it's a really great, like healthy. Yeah. You know, it's a small touch. You've just gate crashed. This wasn't planned and you just see how it is living. It's just how it is. Yeah. And it's great. Absolutely. No, it's, it's super. And I think over the other side, you've got teas and coffees. this space is is um i think a lot of the time um this is just kind of quite a cool chill out space so we've got the swing chairs which people are swing chairs um again neurodiversity if you sit fit in yeah um and if you're just having a moment and you just need to kind of like just decompress a little bit you can just take yourself to side and the swinging motion is absolutely proven to just calm the brain down um so we've put some of these in most well all of our buildings now haven't we we've got the swing chairs i can feel myself decompressing paula good i didn't know you were stressed but that's okay if i get well no it's just that it's that's what i was saying right at the start tiny little things there'll be lots of tiny things nothing will be like wow and i was talking to adele about it and she slipped off again but it is so true there's not any like magic thing that you're going to see like that's completely termination and everything of multiple multiple things but there is so many i think it's the retailer in me there's this old saying like retail is detail um and i think we've literally thought we tried to think of as much detail as we can and trying to execute it our gym is just behind you and so this is our access um so it's more of a studio some of the various sort of machinery um and again some of the branding we've really thought about again our diversity um side of things so you know we've got some really cool um pictures of people doing their stuff um just to sort of encourage but it's fab and it's a great sort of facility to be able to have um on site as you say like convenient yeah like i say i relate gym to so much so is that just well-being side of things yeah no it's amazing it's great to see so we have a well-being suite so we have a returning parents room we have um we do uh prayer rooms um within a sort of sex piece so um might be quite nice to sort of see them again just thinking inclusive yeah i'm gonna throw a spanner in the work that's all right um rather than taking the stairs we're going to go the accessible route do you want to go the accessible route oh this is so cool they've got one we're on the ground floor and we're just gonna get up the accessible route so we're playing um wheelchair users we are and living a life of them for a minute so one of the things we have um in this space that um huge advocate of so we have a we have a a friend and a colleague um who works with us um to help bring to life particularly wheelchair use um so ross hovey um and he's he's been amazing at really sort of bringing to life but one of the things that is making such a difference in his life that we are also proud to sponsor something called changing places and so within every every one of our buildings we are aiming to put a changing places facility so this is a place where it's it's like an adult changing room so it has hoists so it's an accessible um toilet but it goes one stage further um and if you um you know have a certain have certain conditions um that they just allow you to actually get out and travel and for him to be able to work um which is a big part of who he is um so yeah we've done um we're doing those so we can have a look at those at some point customer facing so we're part of a map um so that if somebody um you know is in the vicinity they'll we're on that map so they can actually come in and use so they're before the secure line um so again really sort of keen to to kind of do that that's amazing right so we're going up to the wellness center we're going for the accessible route i often find accessible routes a bit gritty and a bit just yuck, the fragrance isn't the same, the experience, the lighting isn't the same.

41:13I don't know why, it's just what it is, but we're not experiencing that right now. Accessible, here we come. Open access, service is not activated. Please press again and hold the button until destination, your worries, levels. So, press and hold this. Ground, you know, yeah. You have selected over to accept your present one. To accept. please press walls you use the lead e now if i know my letters i just about do yes e e for excellent e for excellent right so this is us i i love that i was following somebody that does the whole like accessible route thing and it's just it's really good just to do it it is it is try it and walk walking somebody else's shoes i think we do a lot of that um as part the design work we try and think about you know what's it like and we talk to lots of people that have a particular you know characteristic um and just get the insight from their perspective and see what we can do to help from a physical design yeah um can't always do everything but we can certainly make a big difference if we if we just try no two right okay well let's go so we're doing the whole accessible thing and then we also have i've got to be quick because it's busy so right you've got to keep rolling with me um but yeah there was maps there um yeah so we pointing out where to go yeah we've really thought about wayfinding um because it's so important when you have big buildings like these um i have spent a lot of my life trying to find rooms um and meeting rooms and things so um again outside in thinking um we looked at who does this best and And the best people that do wayfinding are hotels.

42:55So you go to a hotel, you've never been there before, you will be able to find out your room, you know, because they really map it out and they really think through about how to sort of signpost. So that's where we got the thinking. Come on through, don't worry. So, yeah, so that's what we've been doing. So we've done the wayfinding. We've got some learnings from that. So we've been in a conversation with RNIB. um they've been helping us think about what what else can we do to improve and one of the things we'll do is we'll make the lettering bigger and so i think if you're partially sighted you can just about see it and but i think there's things we can do to improve that so for the next building we'll be looking at what we do there amazing right let's keep trying to find this before we block up too many doorways okay so right down here let's have a look and see what we can do So, should we do...

43:48We've got a returning parents room. Oh, I like this Braille. Yeah. So, we have Braille on all our signage for people. It's like all things. You kind of like test. So, this is one of our... This is our first aid room. So, yeah. If somebody has an issue, somebody has a problem. So, again, we've just tried to make them so that they're not too clinical. Is there returning parents? It's empty. It's empty. We thought it might be. We'll have a look in that one as well. Nothing in that. Yeah. That's okay. And Braille. So we're going into, I wish I could read Braille to make sure that does say returning parents because it could say anything, couldn't it?

44:25Pretty sure it does. We're pretty sure it does. We did have somebody help us sort of create this. So returning parents room, again, microwave, fridge, curtain. Curtain. As a mum of three. um it's little things like the curtain um that actually make a difference so you might be in here there might be a lock on the door but in the nicest way possible getting your boobs out at work is not the most comfortable thing so just having that extra layer of privacy with a curtain that you can draw across because there's nothing worse than you know being sit there thinking oh god what if somebody you know just unlocks that door or you know something sort of happens so it's a tiny little detail again but it's just something that we were just really you know quite quite passionate about um that was probably me having breastfed three and going there's no way i'd have done this and work without a curtain in front you know safety security thing kind little things it's that psychological piece as well nice mirror to make sure you're all put together before you step back out again

45:35and then we have our contemplation rooms

45:42okay so we've got some contemplations there's some people in that one so we'll um be generally quiet but we can go in here and just have a look yeah so we've got wood woodoo rooms and contemplation room so this is our contemplation room so for anybody um he needs to pray meditate it's lovely to work it's lovely and it's just just a sort of peaceful you know environment um you know to be able to come um and pray and particularly at certain times of the year with religious you know um practices or events that are sort of coming on i'm spotting a sign up there Yes, I think that's the, Idale, correct me if I'm right, that's the, what's the name of the sign?

46:31The Cribbler. Cribbler, yes. It points towards Mecca. Yeah, I was going to say the Mecca one. But that points so that you know, you know, which way to sort of direct. Probably says to do this rug as well, direction. Yeah. You heard literally, see what I mean? Like, there's probably nothing that's not being thought of. It's amazing. Within here, we've got space for people's footwear. And then within here, we have the voodoo, which is for certain religions, you need to wash your feet before you pray. So, again, specific facilities that have been put in so that you will come in, shoes, feet, pray.

47:14Of course. I mean, I totally would have thought of that. To be honest, I wouldn't, but I love that you have. Do you know what I mean? We did a lot of, again, consultation. Again, we're quite privileged because we have such a diverse colleague base that we just work with and talk to colleagues who are of particular religions, particular faiths. But also you can go in there. We deliberately called them contemplation rooms. They're not prayer rooms. If you need to meditate, you can go and meditate. Again, inclusivity, not exclusivity. I thought that when I saw the parents room. I just have a bit of a thing because I've got a little boy and you go places and there's mother's room and it's like I don't feel kind of playing in there but I actually do do quite a lot for my boy just because I choose to I don't really sort of leave it always at her it's just not how I choose to be and it's just funny like the amount of places shopping centres you go to and there's not actually that much yeah totally it's a responding parent room yeah 100 % no it's good yeah totally totally there so where should we go next so one of the things that we another one of the signature spaces is you have a workplace hub so So that's deliberately a space where if you have a question, if you've never been in this building before or there's a problem within the building, your tech or your IT doesn't work, you can just go there and those people will fix it for you and they will find a solution.

48:34So again, we've just tried to kind of really think through the whole experience as part of this as well, just to make sure. Yeah, I know. I know. But we also have a tech bar, not in this building but in another London building. So one of the things, so the tech side of things, I mean, clearly when your IT goes nowadays, that's it. You might as well pack your bags because nothing sort of works. So the tech bar we're putting again in each building. Again, we think it's a bit like a hygiene factor, digital first bank if you need a tech bar. So that is a place where you can go and pick up new tech, hand off old tech, get your tech fixed if it's not working working or if you've had a problem during the day and but we can also borrow stuff so there's nothing worse in a environment like this if you've forgotten your headphones right you're like blasting out to the whole world and you're on teams so again you can borrow some headphones and things like that that we can um sort of try and again just make the experience a little bit better for people it's amazing it's so cool paula it's really cool i love it so i just want to see because you did point out to the signage yes this actually from the r b r n i b r n i b yeah is a little bit a little bit small it does its job yeah you know but if you were partially sighted then you might find that that's actually a little bit difficult um so the next sort of iteration of that will be bigger yeah um so that's what we're looking at now for the next buildings that we're rolling out there's always learnings yeah the signage is amazing it's just yeah like a little bit bigger that's all it is a little bit bigger it's cool so where are we getting that it is um where do we want to go do we want to have a little look at a working floor yeah yeah we'll try that and then we'll go back up to the terrace so this is i'm bent yeah so this is one of our working floors um sort of around you and um i think one of the things we were talking about again in that neurodiversity um sort of perspective is we try to keep consistency so on every floor you will see that that side is the kitchenettes um so the kitchenette is where they can collaborate it's where we try and centralize the noise and then on the spans that's what that's where you get sort of the more of the um desks and so each of the spans sort of going around so if you wanted somewhere that was really quiet you would probably go sort of that side yeah or in the far corner over there just to sort of kind of get away from um get away from the noise um one of the it's a little design detail but I'm going to point it out and so this building it used to be um everything was sort of like white or like pale gray and one of the tiny little things that we did was we we painted these arcs the charcoal and then suddenly we all went well that's a hell of an architectural feature and just doing that tiny thing it just opened up the space didn't it just made this whole sort of span and suddenly we were seeing these things um so it's just amazing how that tiny little design detail can just make such a difference with this actual space this was all um this was kind of a it was like a cherry wood um so again this has just been um painted on isn't it sand stained and sanded the dark just to sort of fit in so a bit of recycling because it would have cost a fortune to just have replaced all of this and no need because the wood is perfectly good so we just um resaint it love it yeah like you say it is an architectural like here well we've got like heights to look like yeah i mean the height i can't do it and i'm like oh no i hate heights but i have this weird thing inside me i have to do what i don't like no and then i get worried i'm going to drop the mic when we um access guys well oh i'm sailing cleaning down in it all yeah it's really uh a feat to see so this is our kitchenette um so it's like our little heart of the home so there's one kitchenette on every floor um and this will have space for people to come and eat but also you know again there's plug sockets things like that so people can come and you know just work or catch up um it's absolutely fine there's digital signage so there'll be um sort of local site messaging so downstairs in the front entry it's more corporate more branding and within here it's um there's a lot more of our local messaging so what's going on in london um or in old broad street so we find that we'll um sort of bring that to life in here and then within our i love these kitchenettes they're like um it's like the kitchen that you might want to have at home um and you know you like to lean come and lean on these yeah what i'm getting a vibe of is a more localized slightly quieter version of the um the main one down there so i actually got that familiarity um the jars are amazingly signed up with tea so you can never get it wrong yeah never get it wrong and this is all free we provide all this um for colleagues so free um tea coffee juice um within the sort of space um this is just a lovely lean you know it's a great chat it's great i first when i saw them i thought gosh they're big but actually once you sort of get over the size of them it's they're just really cool you know um so yeah and then we've got uh dishwashers again you've got the signage there to just sort of indicate um because we do um ask colleagues to put you know dirty things in the dishwasher so you can see that that one's running um that one is dirty so if you need to put anything in here then that's the one to put it in because sometimes that's a bit like where do i put um again you've got everything signposted braille um as well as icons and to help we've also made all of our kitchenettes um really really accessible so you'll see here you've got a low sink wheelchair use can just come straight into here i wouldn't have even thought no problem at all amazing um so that is an accessible as well as um you know but anybody can use either and the same here so we've got a hot hot cold tap but also again accessible um so wheelchair use and can go straight straight on and i'm assuming microwave is low for yes yeah and we are experimenting in one of our um one of the first we can't go on um with a talking microwave um because again you are of course we are we're twirling it and seeing seeing what actually happens um i i'm not quite sure i totally understand it because it's sort of you know you ping but anyway it talks to you and tells you what's actually happening so we're trying to see whether again this was some insight from the rnib when they came so we thought right well we'll have a go and so we've got one in and we're we're sort of testing that to see whether that actually makes a difference and and if so we will we will look to see whether we install more of them it's nice to see the tap like yeah you wouldn't filter it would usually use this one maybe but then yeah someone short or someone in a wheelchair but wheelchair access this has made a real a real sort of difference and just being able to have the clear you know um sort of room underneath um for a chair but it's designed in such a way like it didn't jump out at all like it doesn't doesn't feel this is the thing this is where you don't add it on If we were going to add it on afterwards, it would have jumped out and just screamed at you that, oh gosh, they forgot to do that.

55:45Therefore, they've just added it on. None of that. So everything that we've done has been really thought through from the outset. So inclusive design right up front and really thinking about what we can do. Have we done everything? No. You know, will there be areas to improve? Totally. but we've really tried to think about that inclusivity right from the outset in terms of what we can kind of build in. It goes back to what you were saying earlier about those wheelchair spaces on the exchange steps is that don't make them feel like an add-on. Yeah. Like blend in. Yeah. Don't make people have to ask, how do I do what I need to do?

56:23It should be so that anybody can just come in and they can make it work. Yeah. Amazing. That's good. Right. Where are we going next? There's a huge sort of science part about how your brain works, left and right brain. So if you are working through a problem and you're not quite sure where to go next, you know, you're kind of like muddling it over. There's a lot of science that's proven to say if you just go and be creative, like draw, music, Lego, whatever. it's amazing how switching off switching the the left brain on can then relax the right brain and suddenly you'll kind of go i know what to do next so there's a lot of sort of neuroscience into um the creative but it's also a cultural statement in there as well to say it's okay to go and just play you know if you're playing there all the time i think something would be said but you know just being able to actually you know have some thinking space and have some thinking time and to relax that part of your brain and so again we've been encouraging people to use those and we also have walk and talk desks again haven't got them in here but we've got them on the other site haven't we in 10 and so this is where it's basically a treadmill can't go above a certain speed with a desk in front and you can walk and be on your team's call or be working and those go down amazing again cultural statement as well as being quite cool with that you know well-being if you want to get your steps up or if you just want to um do a little bit more so we've been um we've been trialing those those go down really well actually don't they key to that is location yes so you're saying it down so key to that is the location of them so we've really been experimenting in the same way as the decompression pod so it really makes a difference of where on a floor plate you put them so getting them in that kind of um where you would almost naturally walk past it they don't work for us quite so well where they're at the end of a route so it works well when you've got a big beautiful view you know if you've got a beautiful view and you can look out and wait on a window and nature and things like that yeah you've got someone one of our top floors in um in leeds and you're just looking out at the skyline and everything and it's a great because you can be on a team school but you're also yeah experiencing like nature really in terms of the windows and stuff and it's habit building yeah you know people really kind of get used to doing it and by putting it if you came onto this floor and you need it knew you needed to jump on a call and it was one of the first things that you came across you would naturally be more inclined to just oh just do it here rather than come and sit down here and that's your stuff so yeah we're really experimenting with it's one of those it's one of those cultural things right it's it's those little things that we were talking about right at the beginning around how do we culturally say that this is a business that is just a bit more modern a bit more cool and a bit more thinking about you know the people that actually work in the building um and it's just trialing and experimenting with those little things and saying it's okay it's okay to go and walk and talk you know and work and that's also quite cool um and it's really lovely because you know when we first did it and it was like nobody's going to use them.

59:38I have yet to be in a building and walk around and somebody not be on one of those treadmill desks. They're so popular, you know, which is brilliant to see. And again, it's a really good cultural statement to say, actually, it's okay to do that. Nice, great to see. Why should we go next? Should we go back up onto level nine? Okay, we're back up to level nine where we've got a dogs bending facility. Oh my goodness. So we were here An hour ago, introducing this whole podcast. Yep. We're back an hour later and it's all gone. And I think this has been set up for another event this evening. So they're just deep in the reconfiguration of this space.

1:00:25So everything that we try to do where we've had these signature spaces is really modular and flexible. So you can see how quickly this was to sort of move out. and then the guys can you know bring in whatever they need to um to bring in for whatever event that they've actually got going on so i was just super slick i know it's oh well it's nice to have experienced that though so i mean if you are following on you can see great look at it if you can't there was chairs looked like some armchairs tables everywhere it's like not like everywhere in a messy way but like in a nice way and it was kind of structured in a really like pleasant sort kind of soft seating kind of coffee shop chill lounges like little sections yeah and now it's just gone and it will make a great event space for a big bar at the end and yeah one of the key um sort of aspects about here is out on the terrace let's go so should we have a little look so we're quite lucky in the heart of london to have a um a balcony or a terrace which has been built up so this was not used up until when we um you know re reconfigured the building um so amazing views you can just about seest paul's um in the sort of view just straight over there oh you see some pause there yeah it's there um but to have this i mean in the summer it is amazing i've done drinks um i was lucky enough to be invited to have a drink up on the terrace and it is stunning right i mean the sun beats down um we've got different table configurations we can't quite go further up because we've got our board winners at the end there um so we try and you know there's a board meeting on them and we keep the space and an environment you can't actually see into the building but they can see out and it's a bit distracting for them so we're trying to avoid that um but the planting and everything up here is just amazing i mean when we planted it back in march and there was nothing and i kept looking going oh it's have we got enough and now you look at it and go yeah we we planted enough um so it's amazing to sort of see what the the biodiversity and everything that you can get in right at the heart of london um which is really accessible to everybody and this is accessible to everybody providing there's not a board um meeting going on so you can imagine um so there's a receptionist at the front here um and they'll guide people so if you know people can come up and say is it okay to go on the terrace and they'll say absolutely um if there's nothing happening on that day but If there is something, then they'll just sort of say, I'm really sorry, but board's in session today.

1:02:54Or there's a meeting that's commandeered it. So you can imagine for this event that's been set up just now, if the weather's nice and it's been raining, it's not raining right at the minute, but it has been raining. But, you know, the terrace can then also be used as part of that then. So people can sort of spill in and out. So it's a super, super flexible space. And then behind us, we've got our Bug Hotel, which is, that's our little bug hotel. Yes. so again our sort of little sort of biodiversity piece and then just behind this door here is on the rest near as well oh yeah it's the dog spending facility which is the poshest dog spending facility probably in London I think so within here anybody that has an assistance dog or you know a dog that's sort of helping if you're partially sighted blind or whatever then we've just created a space so that they can spend a penny basically yeah I mean attention to detail I don't know what to say I was like of course Lloyds Bank I've got a dog I would just be such a lucky dog wouldn't I it would like you know come up in the terrace in the pouring rain yeah and whether there's a board meeting or not they can they can do their thing do their thing in the heart of London it's very comfortable all chosen with care what is the fabrics is this Camero yeah Camero mainline choice we're a mainline twist i'm quite impressed that i got that right actually i need you to keep that in the actual edit oh that she actually got that right yeah i know we're gonna that's all we're saying in is chimera mainline twist and it's color if you don't know just pretend you do it it's green green green and flex are green yeah um but we have got power we've got usb power usbs um so yeah and the little sort of side tables so people have laptops tablets um again super super flexible space um just for whatever anybody is is doing um you know it's different different spaces for different needs so if you're um if you're somebody that needs a desk to work sort of seeing that we've got um within the floors we've got different sort of configurations we've got sit stand desks walk talk desks we've got normal desks um but if you know like me the way that i plan my diary is you know i come into the office two days a week normally within that two days a week if I'm not on site looking at a building or um with my design team then I'm probably flitting around I'm probably popping in to do a little bit but then I've got a meeting or you know something so there's absolutely no point in me booking a desk and to be honest I never do I'll find a space like this and I'll just hover for an hour and love the work cafes I normally always end up in those because as long as it's got a plug and I can get a decent cup of coffee which I always can um then I'm happy yeah and I love seeing people experience the space because I think that's how you learn what's working and what's not, right?

1:05:48There's nothing like just sitting and doing a little bit of people watching and just watching what's working, watching what's not. And, I mean, you can see I'm chatting. I'll chat to anybody. And, you know, normally I'm kind of going up and going, I just noticed that you were looking at. Can you just talk to me a little bit? And I go, who are you? And I go, oh, I do. It's like, oh. And, you know, suddenly you're into a conversation about, oh, right, okay, how can we better the experience or what can we do? um so it's it's it's you're always learning you know you're always growing in design um and just and just learning what what people need yeah i think that's a massive point i mean i even find for myself it's like like having offices and that being tucked away and being out of the vibe you just lose the heartbeat you don't know what people experience as problems challenges and if you don't fix them that will like get filtered out into the business so no it's great i think good design is a balance of function and form so if you haven't got the function right like you don't understand the user or how they need their needs and how they intend to use the space but it doesn't matter how pretty it is right it's just never going to work um but if you can get the balance of the two so functionally you really understand the space you understand what it's there to do and then aesthetically it's beautiful and it makes people feel good and feel you know it's feeling for me is what is what all is all around right is that what's what's the feeling or the expression the emotion that you want people to actually feel in their space and you know we want people to feel that this is a really modern tech cool space to work in and I think it shows within this sort of the design and how we've kind of brought it to life really yeah I think we have and I also think I've been on my way around I've thought this a few times i'm gonna say it is you've done it in a lloyd way you've done it in your own way you haven't just like oh let's try and be google because you're not people you're i mean and it's really nice how like the lloyd's brand actually has kind of just elevated and evolved but it's still very lloyd's yeah it's very nice and that was a huge huge part um i mean it's probably something that um if you were to ask me what i was most proud of it probably would be the brand um and the brand application and we've done it in all of our retail spaces as well we're doing other podcasts at Singapore I'll show you our retail spaces um but um I think you know Lloyd's Banking Group you know what is it who is it um what are they all about and I think within this sort of space you'll see you know the horse it's the people it's the green clearly and it's lovely to work with a green brand especially when you've got all the planting and things to sort of work through and but it's also the culture and the atmosphere and the vibe you'll have seen as we've been walking through we have our values we have our our purpose our purpose is to help Britain prosper um you know and we're quite bold at sort of you know saying that and reminding people of that is what we're all about um we've got lots of you know pictures of our people um around the building as well so all of our meeting rooms have pictures of people within it um and then we're also bringing the horse to life and you know we've got plans to do more in that sort of space now that we're experimenting so we're working with um Suresh and the brand team uh to really think about how we might be able to um to do more in that space so that that's quite exciting so you never stop you know continually sort of pushing the boundaries and sort of moving what's one thing you're changing what's one biggest learning that you think oh i wish i knew that three years ago or a most unexpected thing most unexpected thing um so the thing i didn't know when i so obviously i've been doing retail um design for well a good sort of eight eight nine years before i took my office um i thought the retail customer was hard the office customer is harder um and I think it's because because it's people that you work with day to day um you know they they're unashamedly going to tell you exactly what they want and exactly what's wrong and you're sitting there going I've slogged my guts out on this for two years for you um and it's great when you get it right um but you also absolutely know when you've not quite got it right um you know and because we're trying to change things culturally sometimes it's we're deliberately pushing people's comfort zone um you know and that's a strategic thing that we're actually doing um you know we've put games rooms in what's talking about that we put games rooms in and that was that was actually a learning from google we had a an exec that came across from google we were chatting to her and you know tech-based companies uh have to make decisions at times um so one of the things they were talking about was they can go right or left it doesn't really matter it's just somebody's got to make a decision do you go right or left um and it can be quite emotive when you've been deep in a project and you you think absolutely passionately it should be left and the other person it's like i don't agree i think it should be right um and so what we what googled is they do something oh let's take it to the game and so the two people go and they juke it out on call the duty or whatever the digital game is of choice and it's just whoever wins the game gets the decision love it right absolutely love it and he takes all the emotion the anxiety the stress out of who's right and who's wrong you just take it to the game um so that's what we've been doing and some people are like you're playing call of duty in the middle of the office and we're like yes we are and this is why and then they go oh i get it you know it's a good idea but it's a great idea i loved it so so we're always on the lookout for those little for those little things but um yeah um retail I love the retail space very very straightforward um but it's quite binary you know you have your customer you know what you need to do and you're kind of working it through office design there are so many shades of gray um and different ways of doing things and different perspectives um that sometimes it's hard to sort of move forward um but I think that's where you have you have to have a vision you know and I talked to Sharon about this a lot and she's she's the biggest advocate she's been amazing for these spaces but you know have a vision and your job is to to execute that vision you know and yes take people along with you but have a vision know where you're heading to um and what you're actually trying to achieve and i i think we've really done that um and i'm incredibly proud of you know my team idel and the people that made this space and other spaces um sort of work but also there's a huge army behind this right this isn't just me and my team you know as a delivery team and engagement team construction um strategy guys and we all play a part to make these buildings you know really really really come to life so huge huge team effort and it shows it does show it's amazing well thank you so much paula lovely to see you thanks to adele as well for showing us around and dropping in showing us bits i mean that was can you see what i mean when i was saying at the start there's so many little things just so well thought out which we sort through from the spacing of the wheelchairs to the lifts and pressing the bus and sit talking to you to some of the returning parents rooms that sort of thing the dog spending facility there's so much there we're always open to new ideas so any any new ideas drop them in the comments drop them in the comments i'll keep checking in and forward i'll forward them on to me but yeah it's the whole holistic thing which is just created something so great and because it's being done at scale from someone like law is it's changing the this change is a movement is changing the how often people see offices so thank you for following us along and please give us a like give us a follow do your whole thing and we will be back with more great guests like Paula thank you thank you