Know your self-worth, building confidence through career reinvention with Sonja Bannerman

0:00Push the boundary, you know, put those bright colors in the ceiling, pull people through that space, make the whole space a journey, right from front door all the way to the back of the building. What drives you to get out of bed? What drives your designs? Is it people? Is it the company you work for? Like what are the most important things to you? And make sure you really get that out there and be yourself ultimately. Don't pretend to be someone you're not. Hey, welcome to another episode of Spaced by Stampsons. Today, I'm speaking to the lovely Sonia. How do I actually know how to say your surname?

0:35Bannerman. Bannerman. There we go. Morgan Lovell. I'm really excited to speak to Sonia because not only is she like absolutely interior design and I've seen bits of her style and stuff like that, which is cool, but also she's really great at personal brand. And I think that's something that's really hard for interior designers because we're all quite self-conscious. we're all like kind of overthink a little bit and we're all kind of self-critical maybe all the rest of it and i just think your approach to personal brand and everything is really good too so let's roll well yeah thank you for having me i'm really excited so exciting to have you on so first of all how long have you been at Morgan level reasonably newish isn't it almost a year now oh literally next week oh yeah it's flown hasn't it wow so by the time this slide this drops yeah you'll have been there a year yeah you had a bit of a tough time didn't you before that I did I have been made redundant twice in my career um which was really tricky the last time being the trickiest mortgages to pay and all of that and yeah it was yeah basically trying to sell yourself to you know in interviews and trying to really sell your personal brand and yeah I landed at Morgan Lovell which I think is almost like being made redundant a blessing in disguise that's cool because I probably wouldn't have moved where I was to go to Morgan Lovell and yeah the opportunities I've had at Morgan Lovell have just been amazing and yeah completely a blessing in disguise it was really tough when you got made redundant how did you feel uh when that first happened that was your initial like kind of first couple of days it's like I can't believe this has happened to me again I feel like this time around I was very selective very picky about what was important to me and stability being the main one I feel like after you've been it's almost like you've been dumped twice you have to look after yourself and not just go for you know whatever seems the most desirable at the time yeah I had to be very very selective and yeah coming to Morgan Lovell and that whole experience you could feel the passion from them as a company and it was a series of free interviews and with everyone I was like this is where I belong this is like my people and I feel like they're going to really look after me yeah which was a nice feeling because the company I was at before clearly didn't look after me very well because it was a selfish hire I think oh no yeah oh no I don't want to ask about that but before you you picked yourself up after your major redundant before you got trained to Morgan Lab or how did you approach that job hunt like very selective how how did you keep yourself mentally and physically oh self-preservation it was tough you know it was very stressful I feel like lots of sleepless nights stressing about you know where you're going to end up are you going to make it to the end of the month and where I was made redundant I hadn't been paid they I had to claim it all back and that was a whole other thing which I won't bore you with but it was basically it felt like a race against time like come on I haven't got long you're sort of you feel quite like scatty almost because you're just nervous and I feel like you can feel it in your bones um but family was a big thing family my boyfriend having that time to go on those almost like mental well-being walks and trying not to let the stress overcome you and I've always been very mentally strong you know going to the gym keeping myself active being with you know friends and family it's tough being moved under and it really is no I'm just really glad you opened up about it because I think it's something a lot of people do feel like that's somewhere in their journey like you might feel like the only one at the time yeah but it does happen a lot yeah yeah are made redundant in some form or another or found themselves looking for a new role and yeah I think it's just nice to know that you're the message out there to everybody is that you're not the only one no like push through it's easier said than done self-worth and I feel like if you speak with confidence because it is ultimately selling you need to really sell yourself as a designer and you know what drives you to get out of bed what drives your designs like is it people is it the company you work for like what are the most important things to you and make sure you sort of really get that out there and be yourself ultimately don't pretend to be someone you're not because ultimately it's you know if a company want you and they want to make sure you fit into their culture yeah so just be yourself because ultimately you don't want to be somewhere where you're not happy no no that's such a good message and it's so powerful to on your own and you've done a lot on like putting yourself out there yeah and your personal brand yeah like do you ever have like self-doubt some like overthinking moments or are you kind of past that I'm past that you know did you ever have that i'd always worry like if i was let's say posting someone on linkedin or um on my other sort of design pages i'd always be a little bit like what if that doesn't get any likes who cares you know you're always you're always quite good at not caring yeah i feel like i don't feel like you should delete the things that flop just just leave it there you know because it will rise and when people go on your page and see things you've posted and the same for like Like, you know, if you're, you know, going for new roles, people will have a look at your LinkedIn and say, oh, you know, what are they up to?

6:45What are they doing? And I think ultimately, if it's something you're interested in, post, you know, don't be scared. That's such good advice. So I could listen to that. Really? Yeah, no, totally. I just think it's easy to overthink it. It's easy to worry. It's so easy to overthink it. But we shouldn't. What platform do you actually use the most, sake for your personal brand I'd say LinkedIn for sure yeah since during Morgan Lovell probably in the last six months I've been posting a lot more but I always found before I wasn't posting as frequently but they would always kind of hopefully take off and yeah since being at Morgan Lovell I think it's important to grow yourself you know your own brand and as well as the companies and And I think, you know, following what others do, I gain so much inspiration from other people on LinkedIn and seeing what they're up to and what they're doing, what projects they're working on.

7:42And yeah, it is a source of inspiration for me, LinkedIn. Incredible. I was going to say, where do you get your inspiration from apart from digital? Travel is a massive thing. like you know even like going in like shopping looking at sort of lovely retail stores and seeing how they've styled things and patterns and food and restaurants everywhere really what country is your favorite Bali yeah how long have you been there how many times only once I was there for three weeks last year at the start of February you came back I'd love to go back once the bank account allows it it's a beautiful country okay talk to about it it's just i've not been you need to go you have some areas which are so remote and almost like you've stepped back in time it's all you know back to basics they're using like horse and cart to get around there's no vehicles you get other parts which are really built up so busy cars everywhere you're stuck in traffic but the restaurants are amazing like you've got italians americans you've got a lot of different types of restaurants and food whereas i prefer the more rural parts where it's like you're going to a restaurant and it's literally someone's like house but the food is so authentic like the farmland is right there it was amazing the people are so friendly you can jump on the back of a grab it's like a motorbike and it would take you like 20 minutes up the road and it's cost you like a pound but to them like that's a lot of money like it's crazy and it was kind of like it brings you back down to earth a little bit because they do so much for you and to us it's like peanuts it's like nothing and you'd be more grateful it does 100 and the culture it's very warm and inviting and just the things you see like I was swimming with manta rays these huge manta rays it was like amazing turtles in the sea riding horses along the beach it was just like a dream it was so long ago now what's the best food you got in Bali pizza really yeah so we were on an island called ghillie tea um and this is like rural this is like a little island uh there's a few islands called like the ghillie islands and on this island this is the one where there's no vehicles anywhere so we were like riding bikes around it was really nice and wholesome and um as you do in bali because bali belly is like a big thing i didn't get it but we'd be like going google reviews and chris uh my partner he was like oh i found this place let's go and when i got there it was literally like a shack like there was like pieces of plastic like stuck together forming the outside of this like hut with like plastic roof and like odd chairs and like I was like Chrissy Shaw like this can't be it because I know trust me the reviews are like insane and it was it was like the best pizza and pasta we've ever eaten we got two pizzas we shared a pasta two drinks 14 pounds you can't even get a pizza in London for 14 pounds really no it was incredible we went back twice it was incredible and we were only there for like five days so to go back twice yeah it was yeah amazing I love how different cultures and people live and work and yeah like kind of express themselves yeah and i think it's like that was don't judge a book by its cover because at first you're like i'm not sure i want to eat here and that's probably me just being a little bit but it was the best food and the best service and yeah yeah it does almost tap back to what you do on a daily basis in terms of design it does shadow you yeah and it does change your perception okay you had a great experience and you were open-minded enough to still go and try and yeah and all the rest of it which is great but if someone's not and they might turn away or like they might not stay as long or like they're expect it does totally impact how your judgment of a place as much as we say don't judge a bit by its cover like psychologically human nature sort of does but i wish we didn't but we sort of do 100 like if we hadn't read the reviews and we just walked past that they wouldn't have gone in i don't think no so that is interesting yeah and it's i think that also spreads the message like power of like reviews and like letting people know like giving them feedback i think that's such an important part of the role so easy to leave negative reviews and not positive reviews people say i don't really leave any reviews see i'm quite good at review i'm a little bit of like you're clearly a review reader as well you have to be in body you have to is that how it is yeah yeah you can get like if you don't read the reviews let's say this is like a four and a half star establishment and you haven't read the recent reviews and like you read up and there's got barley belly got barley belly i was ill from this but that was only like that last week their reviews are still going to be four and a half stars you know and then if you hadn't have read the reviews it might not but it worked for you didn't it you didn't get a barley belly no touch red three years after we've started this podcast we thought it was time to make sure that those lessons and the takeaways from our amazing guests were actually actionable something you can really put into place so we have launched show notes a bi-weekly email get into your inbox and that will give you the key headlines that is indexable findable actionable we can really start to make a difference in creating healthy happy workspaces so the link's below or you can head to stansons.co.uk forward slash space look forward to seeing you sign up so back to interior design what do you what um materials do you love at the minute i love 3d sort of tiles tiles that aren't completely flat they've got a pattern or like a groove in them um in a recent project but it's not built yet, but we're putting in these Solus palletta tiles, the decor tile.

14:21And it's this lovely, like long sort of subway grooved sort of tile. And the way sort of the light will hit it at different angles and it's going around a bar surround. Yeah, I'm very excited to see it getting installed. But yeah, I think tiles are an amazing way to get in colour, pattern. I recently finished a project where I had checkered tiles on the back splash. Oh, that's cool. That was beautiful. Yeah, it's quite like, you know, back in the day. But it worked. Like black and white? No, they were sort of an orange and a white against like an oak, a bit like this, an oak kitchen. And it really worked with a marble top.

15:05Yeah, I think getting colour in through tiles, it adds interest. And I think Tyra always had that kind of like sophisticated look and feel. And yeah. What colours do you think are going to start to see more in the office? I think a lot more greens, sort of maybe blues, possibly even yellows. I feel like we're kind of going more into that sort of colour and pattern. I've seen a lot more sort of pattern on like banquettes and cushions and upholstery, street which i think we were quite scared to do for a while and i think with the likes of like soho home hoxton hotels those more sort of richer interiors i do feel like pattern is slowly making its way from residential into that commercial feel now you know having that sort of i hate the word but resi-mercial um look and feel within a workspace because you do spend more time in the office than you do at home for some people.

16:10What sort of patterns? Not geometric, but like repetitive patterns. Stripes are big, as you can see. What about stripes? I wouldn't say like circles, but I definitely say stripes, sort of zigzaggy, maybe some sort of, you know, like the floral patterns, but not to the point where it's like William and Morris but sort of a more subtle pattern but a lot more like rich textures and colors I'm hearing a lot about color coming in I'm actually quite excited I am I do love like really warm neutrals I'm I love color blocking I love everything the same color I'm still I'm still quite in that era but then you see stuff done with patterns and colors and it's so like sophisticated and layered and kind of almost like a bit maximalist coming through being in it is it is and i do definitely think it is coming from that sort of residential sort of rich interiors and it is slowly making its way that's cool what colors are going out i don't really specify purple nothing against it but i can't remember the last time we specified anything that's sort of like a bright purple you know i've just got a project for yesterday with purple really is it bright or is it like a darker aubergine bright okay but shall i tell you what it's this might probably be my pet peeve really it's not the designer's fault it's the end client yeah have got purple in their logo okay and they want all the colors yeah match their color yeah i just think i think we're a bit past that like i think you can maybe interpret brands and feelings rather than doing the direct color yeah but each their own each their own if someone wants it if someone wants it go for it you know our job as interior designers is to ultimately deliver a space that the client is happy with and if their favorite color and their brand color is purple and they want to see it everywhere let's do it let's go to town let's you know deliver something that is going to make them feel at home yeah i agree if a client wants it they're gonna get it I also think the designer's role is to like educate people like a space like the end client might be the owner so they therefore love the color yeah the people coming in the staff or the clients or the suppliers or whatever the community shareholders it does have a psychological impact and if the color isn't having talking to them psychologically we have to sort of be mindful and it's all about placement you know you probably want to put the bright purple in the workspace like where the desks are you would probably put that in reception and maybe an upholstery fabric a cushion a little graphic on the wall or a bit of color with some artwork yeah or putting the color into the artwork and custom artwork done i'm doing it that way that's nice yeah see there's nice ways and the designers there's nice ways of doing it yeah it's cool and yeah this project to be honest it will be beautiful like i'm not knocking anyone i know it will be because the designer will pull it all together you can just tell these good clients driven this request for this color and i'm working on a project at the minute and they've got very similar kind of palette where it's those kind of i would say primary and second secondary colors but within their brand they've muted the colors into the same like colors but a completely different like darker tone and the same into like a like a pastel-y kind of tone and by doing that we've been able to take colors from that really nice muted palette which is still within their brand color and sort of put that into places same with the sort of lighter pastel colors without having to use those bright secondary primary colors which is really nice and the palette is beautiful um really nice colorful but not too you know in your face yeah there's lots of ways of doing color beyond like blatant color isn't there like there's lots of when you you mentioned about doing upholstery you've mentioned about doing artwork and things like what's what what's like a couple of little tricks or things that you love working with and you love specifying and designing to make a place like come to life and pop i definitely think it's being selective with fabric choices you know we've got so many and it's educating yourself and having a good furniture team behind you that will introduce you to not just like your camera eras and stuff like that you can go into maybe the gabrielle fabrics which have lovely colors and tones and i think it's being very selective about where you're placing that color like we've mentioned artwork's a great way wallpaper as well I would say so within meeting rooms and stuff I think it's really nice to have a bit of a mixture not every meeting room's the same so what I'm typically doing is like an acoustic wall a feature color and then a wallpaper and then you've probably got the glazing and the door at the front if it's a square and I think making each meeting room slightly different so they're not all copy and paste so maybe the acoustic wall is a slightly different color the wallpaper is the same colors and tones but a different pattern but subtle we're not talking like big florals very nice and subtle and then the feature color as well tapping in that brand color and adding that I think it's nice for the client to be able to say oh you know what meeting room do you fancy going in it not being all just they all look the same yeah or you can make a call because you know what sort of your clients kind of like that oh they're a bit more of this and you can pick one that suits them definitely and our office is a great example of that and we always try and get the client to come into our office and hold a workshop whether it's the first finishes meeting um or just sort of a concept meeting because in our office we've got the same kind of setup every meeting room slightly different we've got different sort of finishes on the walls the floors different type of acoustic walls it doesn't necessarily need to be sort of the foamy stuff It could be sort of a cork, timber, like a white slatted Alps panel.

22:32We show different types of finishes. And that then inspired my recent project with my clients. They were like, we love that. We love that every room's different, different pendants. That's cool. Yeah. What's a material you don't like? See, I've really fought long and hard about this. and I really don't have a... It's something you don't specify often. I don't specify bolon at all. No offense. It just is very hard to clean. Yeah, clients will install it and then they're not very happy with it. At the minute, we're finding that if you get really rustic tiles, and I know I said I love tiles, but very rustic, sort of natural...

23:15That porous. Yeah, with rough edges and you're specifying a contrasting grout that's like a no-no because where the tile is kind of not the same and uneven it makes it really obvious that it's not quite it's not supposed to look like a finished product almost so that's something we're kind of not doing as much we will specify a grout that matches the tile to try and not bring to attention that it's kind of rough and not quite there so that's probably another material which I'm kind of avoiding I love a challenge and I like I don't want to all my interiors to look the same I want them all to have this their own identity and not be copy and paste and I always try and choose different finishes for each project within reason so you don't want to be that known for a set style no fair enough what would you say your set style would have been definitely like Scandinavian you know a bit of inspiration from sort of the japanese just very minimal yeah like i love like natural materials wood stones very sort of neutral color base like yeah just very muted and very calm i'm gonna say very calm yeah i love a calm interior that feels just you know when you go in somewhere you can just breathe it doesn't feel too busy and you can just relax yeah um but you're not sticking to that no you're you're pushing out i'm pushing out i've you know said to my team like i really want to push myself as a designer and challenge myself with other sort of themes and sectors and you know at the minute i'm working on a very techie um interior which is actually being installed in battersea at the minute and that is the complete opposite of what i just described it's just very bright like technology driven futuristic blue and orange is the theme colors which you know is not my typical sort of colors that i would choose and it's going to look amazing it's yeah i'm very excited um for that what you do learn like the most doing such a different project?

25:34I guess the biggest learning is to really listen to what the client wants and what they want their people to feel when they enter the space. They are a very modern company, which is going through quite a big recruitment phase. And their typical recruitment is that younger generation that want to work in like a techie, you know, AI company. And they want people to walk into that space and go wow and they've got a prime location in Battersea literally overlooking if you sort of tilt your head that way you can see the Battersea power station it's you know they want people to walk in and go wow I work here and be really proud of their brand and I would say they want their brand everywhere they want actual colors they want their colors there and as a designer I've been sort of respecting that to a sense no definitely respecting that but trying to bring in some of their secondary colors um which is quite new to them and I just think push the boundary you know put those bright colors in the ceiling pull people through that space make the whole space a journey right from front door all the way to the back of building you want it all to feel very impactful and you don't want to have a not poor poor area you want it all to feel like one and in design and build we're very good at sort of investing into let's say reception areas and breakout spaces but i think every space should feel you know very well thought out and planned and invested into i agree with that like the staff are just as important as the people coming into reception, do you know what I mean?

27:20100%. They're delivering your work to you and you're talking to your clients or whatever they're doing. And I feel like those early interactions when you get the brief, you are, you know, digging into further than what's written on that piece of paper. You're, you know, bringing look and feel cards and saying, what do you like right from the onset? How do you want your customers to feel how do you want your people to feel and you're sort of developing that right from the first workshop and having those meetings and I think face time with the client is so important and building that relationship because the stronger the relationship is the more you're going to sort of find out and you know be able to deliver within the interior how do you go through that process so it's different depending on the clients I've been really lucky that all the projects so far at Morgan Lovell, I've had really lovely clients who I've got very good relationships with.

28:19And having those early workshops, so within the first meeting, I'll have some cards with me with look and feel, whether that's Scandinavian, techie, very corporate, it ranges. And they're sort of picking out what they like, what they don't like. And I want them to tell me what they don't like because they might like something in that picture but say I actually don't like that slatted wall or something or you know a lot of um people you know curtains can be a bit marmite I love curtains yeah but some clients are like no I don't want curtains anywhere um so it's finding out early what they like and what they don't like how they want their people to feel how they want customers to feel the office shouldn't feel like one space it should have different areas pockets yeah pockets you want a really buzzy breakout space you want a really calm wellness room um you want the office to feel light and airy but you want to have those yeah pockets of space where you can retreat to but yeah workshops and we do a lot of sort of workplace consultancy within Morgan Lovell.

29:29And that is brought on by Ashley. She's driving that. But again, as designers, we need an understanding of, you know, if you've had workplace strategy done before, it's data telling us what doesn't work because the customers and clients might go, no, no, we want that. But the data showing you that that typically doesn't get used and you don't want to create a space which doesn't get used because every space is costing them essentially yeah um so yeah i think data is also really important that's good and what's something you've really enjoyed about doing like because you've done a few different spaces not you don't by far have you only done scandinavia no each time it must be kind of like opening a new it is i think it feels rewarding having the opportunity to work on different sort of themes and different sectors.

30:24And my first project at Morgan Loveall was a dream client of mine. It was like, oh my goodness, like this is amazing. And I can't say the name, but it was sort of like a members club office, like a finance office for them. And the interior is very rich, sophisticated, a very sort of front of house, back of house. They want their front of house to be almost like a restaurant but like a like a I guess a bit of a club to a sense um they want it to be a big social space and then the back of house being very sort of this is where you're working you've got lots of lovely meeting rooms focus spaces but furniture booths collaboration tables but having that very fine line and the sort of the look and feel palette was beautiful it was a lovely project and one I'm very proud of and then the second one being this very techie AI driven space and now I'm working on a project that's going to be starting in Kingston and that's very commercial but they are very brand proud and again they want people to say wow when they walk into that space and they took a lot of inspiration from our office and sort of that hospitality feel within in within the commercial workspace and yeah I'm looking forward to the next project I'm hoping it's going to be something different so I can really challenge myself and you know say yeah actually I have worked in that kind of sector in that sort of look and feel try the new things yeah I know good broaden your yeah and I think if it was all the same yeah you know you could get bored if it's all the same copy and paste copy and paste I think it's nice to work on something different and get excited about new things that you're trying and learning from others yeah no I love it it's it's really cool like I totally understand some people that want to have a brand and they want to be known for a set space I actually do get that it makes sense to me but then I also totally understand someone wanting to be like really diverse and yeah try as many things as they can in their life like do you know what I mean I feel like I'm still quite early in my career maybe in years to come I'll say you know what I've tried these things and this is what I specialize in and I excel in and I'm really good at it yeah I don't really want to be put in a box right now and I like a challenge like to keep myself busy and just before bed thinking oh you know what can i try next or you know not things that keep you up at night but things that you're excited about and you know have to think about the next day it's worth getting up yeah it's cool oh amazing are you a dog or cat person a dog yeah that's cool what dogs do you have so my mom's got a little jack russell called annie and we rescued her just over a year ago.

33:25She's only got three legs. Yeah. Awesome. I know. We rescued her and she'd just been abandoned. It was really sad. But she is amazing. She used to go running with me. She's so able. And we've always had Jack Russells, actually. I had a Jack Russell before as well. And we have her at the weekends to look at her. Yeah. And are you a morning person or a night person? Morning person, for sure. That's new, isn't it? yeah every design is a morning person yeah definitely when I was at uni I was definitely like a night person like a night out I would work until like three o 'clock in the morning wake up late go to uni and it'd just be a cycle and now yeah I love getting up going to the gym starting my day feeling refreshed and ready and but at the weekends it's not the other way around but I'll definitely sleep in I won't wake up but I will go to bed sort of similar time so I'm like almost catch you up on that sleep in the week but no I'm definitely a morning person are you out socializing or reading a book definitely out socializing but I kind of look forward to the weekends where I haven't got much on where I have time to just reset refresh I feel like working in D &B it can be very fast-paced and I like having those moments to just breathe relax and just take everything in I much prefer sort of going to a restaurant you know going to a bar I'm not I don't go to clubs or anything like that I'm definitely not that kind of girl anymore and are you weight training or cardio in the gym they're a mixture actually that's cool because I've always been more of a cardio girl like back in the day I used to swim and run competitively but as I've got older it's you know I do feel like weight training is so beneficial and I always start my gym set with some cardio 20-30 minutes and the rest is more strength training yeah and what's three things that's always in your bag lip gloss my hairbrush

35:34and my phone I was gonna say your phone is gonna be an easy one oh cool thank you so much shania really appreciate um you coming on sharing all that about all those projects um also the personal brand bit as well and material as well as materials and oh no just covered loads so it's really really easy chat as well so thank you diligently had your ipad it's best conversations isn't it it's just so easy but no really grateful i think i um audience are going to love it so thank you so much for coming on thanks for having me and guys like and subscribe you know the whole thing we say um and it'll help us get more great guests like sonia so thank you you're welcome thanks for having me i find it simply fascinating how physical space can totally change how we think feel and behave meaning it can pause distractions it can connect us it can mean we do our very best work and that's where stansons steps in this show is created by stansons who design make and install curtains and acoustics to create the perfect environment for people to flourish and do their very best work you've got a project on we know how it feels reach out and we'll start to talk

37:03Thank you.