The Shift That’s Changing Workplace Design Forever with Samantha Jinks

0:00Samantha Jinks:Just really understanding the culture of that business and what is working for them and what isn't and how we can make it better. We used to talk about like, how do you make the workplace productive and how do you bring joy? But now we're talking about how do you bring belonging? Three years after we've started this podcast, we thought it was time to make sure that those lessons and the takeaways from our amazing guests were actually actionable. Something you can really put into place. So we have launched a show notes, a bi-weekly email, get into your inbox, and that will give you the key headlines as indexable, findable, actionable.

0:38We can really start to make a difference in creating healthy, happy workspaces. So the link's below, or you can head to stansons.co.uk forward slash space. Look forward to seeing you sign up. so here we are at this lardar private members club in shoreditch and they're by the pool someone's swimming so we're trying to not get them in the shot um but right this is obviously by the pool so i presume no loads of work gets done here no not much work gets done here to be honest but can you talk me through i mean obviously i've been to a section and i've come straight up here so can you talk me about the different floors that what it yes what each one has purposes for?

1:22Samantha Jinks:So the fifth floor, there's a, there's a quiet area for working. You can get your head down. You can have your laptop. You can't do Teams calls or video or phone calls because they're trying to curate the perfect vibe. It messes with the acoustics. If you have people on Teams calls, it's supposed to be about either getting, you know, getting work done or in-person collaboration. So there's a lot of different tables and spaces. There's long, longer tables where people can get around, you know, get that type of work done. Then you can move into the bar area, which is perfect for grabbing a coffee with somebody.

1:59Samantha Jinks:You can grab lunch. That's much more about socializing. And then up here, we've got the pool. There's an event space. I was at a gig the other night, super fun. And then you've got the restaurant over here. So perfect for either entertaining clients or grabbing bunches. Oh, and there's a gym. There's a gym and a spa is there a sauna i need a sauna i can do not have a problem probably isn't there they're bound to have one aren't they yeah so what i love about it though is it's multifunctional multidimensional and i can use this space for for work for fun i can you can bring family here you can bring friends clients partners i mean it's it's like kind of seen as a workplace but it's it's really so stretching and we talk about like mixing up play leisure dining entertainment experience work that we talk about that but to actually see it in real life and also we can work here because we are working yeah like right now and this is our job but being by water the sound of water like the cognitive like memory like the change that biophilia elements and it's it's really refreshing isn't it like to be somewhere like this yeah and the design of the whole like the the floors below it's it's so welcoming and inviting and um there's a lot of like percy tones and i don't just the whole aesthetic of it is quite calming yeah very calming lots of soft furniture like like not a lot of like desks well no no like original no but but like i'll obviously lots of big tables and chairs and that sort of thing.

3:40How do you find that for working?

3:42Samantha Jinks:I love the lighting. For me, the lighting here is perfect because it's not overhead. It's a lot of lamps. It's soft lighting, which I need to help focus. If it is too much like bright overhead light, I find that to be a bit jarring. So when I'm like sitting there trying to get emails out and admin done, that's perfect for me. And I like the soft furnishings because I just find it comfortable it's just like I better do this task get it done and I'm just comfortable I think it plays on that whole like kind of if you feel like in a safe space and you've got all of your things around and you've got like that habitual like caveman like kind of protection zone that do you know what I mean and I'll have like three beverages like my matcha the sparkling water means a tap water like you've got everything yeah no it's it's amazing so maybe do you have how do you find like spaces across the world like from america to this that instan but how do you find that space has changed like depending on cultures and that sort of thing you know it's interesting about uh when i when i worked in an office in istanbul i don't know if this space was necessarily so different but they had rituals that were really different like three o 'clock was tea time.

4:53Samantha Jinks:For the first couple of weeks I worked in that office, I would notice everyone would disappear. I was like, are they having a meeting? And I wasn't invited. And then I just found out that it was tea time and they all have that. I don't know if you've seen it. It's like in a glass tulip. No, it's not like British tea. It's very different. And yeah, they all for 15 minutes, everybody gathered and they all had their tea and like a biscuit. I can't imagine during that now. so formally it was very formal and it was expected that everyone would participate in tea time so you looked at funny not doing it no that i was avoiding anybody tell me so it wasn't a co-working it out it wasn't like a co-working space it was like a kind of the company's ritual yeah um i worked for a danish fashion retailer and they had a production office in istanbul so it's very much office space work it was our office and yeah i mean i i figured it out eventually and I was like, oh, actually I love this.

5:47Samantha Jinks:This is like a nice break in the day. Yeah. And then we all talk about, you know, you kind of let loose a little bit and then you go back to it. It was nice. I find it simply fascinating how physical space can totally change how we think, feel and behave, meaning it can pause distractions. It can connect us. It can mean we do our very best work and that's where Stansons steps in. This show is created by Stansons who design, make and install curtains and acoustics to create the perfect environment for people to flourish and do their very best work. You've got a project on, we know how it feels.

6:30Reach out and we'll start to talk. That's really interesting because what I'm picking up is first of all it's a place to work that you can't take phone calls and you can't do zoom calls. like oh my like that's like for an office to do that that's revolution that that's really breaking the like office rules yeah you can't be on the phone you can't do a zoom call yeah secondly i'm hearing that you're using it for the work you can do and for conversations and things that you like in person and meetings and that sort of thing but also you're using it like personally for like leisure entertaining whether it's guests whether it's clients whether it's like partners whether it's your husband whether it's your mates and I think that's like I mean that is what we're hearing isn't it like we need to see multi-functional spaces multi-use spaces but yeah like that is multi-use to another level isn't it yeah and I but I think like within the workplace you're seeing

7:24Samantha Jinks:so much inspiration from hospitality retail and all those various things and it's all blending together yeah the certain place yeah you know yeah we're hearing that aren't we the third place yeah So how do you help your clients? Because they obviously might not necessarily be getting a third space. How do you create that third space in their office, for example? We used to always talk about how do you create a more productive workplace? But again, it's creating that sense of belonging. So is it making sure the acoustics are right? Is it making sure the reception? What is that welcome experience?

7:58Samantha Jinks:And I think that's where the hospitality blends in. Like when you're talking about the welcome experience, I was at UBS a couple of years ago and he told me that before they opened, they spent two months just practicing what that would look like when somebody walked in, what the check-in experience was and how they got taken to the meeting room. And two months over and over again, they practiced the same exact thing. From the check-in to the meeting room. Yeah. Like what was that experience? and it's so precise, which I think is so interesting. And have you experienced it? Yeah. And what is it?

8:31Talk me through it, talk me through it.

8:33Samantha Jinks:It was seamless. Like you get your QR code and it just works. Does it work from before you even arrive? It works before you even arrive. You get there, you scan it. They say, welcome, Samantha Jinx. Would you take you to the room? Would you like a coffee? Just the whole thing is seamless. And I think a lot of people get that wrong. It sounds simple, but it's not. What does that experience look like when you first walk in and you get greeted? Because it's first impressions too, you know? So I think that's an important thing to get right. And it sets the tone for the rest of the journeys throughout the space.

9:09Samantha Jinks:Yeah. That's amazing. That's great. So you moved over from America eight years ago? Columbus, Ohio. And why? I'd always wanted to travel. and I loved putting myself into different places and different cultures. So before I lived in London, I lived in Istanbul, which was a very exciting experience. It was so different than everything I'd grown up with. I don't know if you've been, but it's just vibrant and exhilarating and it's massive and it's just like you're just overstimulated all the time and I absolutely loved it. I really thrived there. Um, however, I left during the Gezi park protests cause I just felt like it probably wasn't the best time for me to be there.

9:55Samantha Jinks:So went back to Ohio and fell into retail architecture. So I worked for a firm called WD partners, which is focused on, um, retail restaurant, grocery, healthcare, and, and we kind of helped our client or at the time I helped the clients with their, the shopper experience and what that looks like. and again it's really interesting to see how much workplace is over is overlapping now with those other industries and they're all kind of merging into one but yeah and then I ended up through that I fell into workplace and then from Istanbul you went back to Ohio yeah and then you came back to London then came to London yeah yeah I love being here I think it's the greatest city how has traveling like changed how you sort of think and feel and behave or me or anything yeah I think well I think especially being in Istanbul so young it really shaped I don't know how maybe how I interact with people it made me more adaptable and flexible um when you're surrounded by different cultures and experiences that you have never been before I think it made me go with the flow I guess because you just expect the unexpected or you know even like going to the grocery store would be an experience for me because I didn't really speak Turkish so it was like okay how do I do these normal day activities that I need to, but in a different language and a different culture.

11:16Samantha Jinks:And even being in London, there's things that, you know, aren't quite exactly the same. Like it took me a while to figure out how to use the NHS, to be honest. No, no, if there's any English people, no. No, they're true. No, that's, that's, that's totally fair. But I just thinking how we could then like, how do, how can workspaces like almost interject that kind of broad thinking and adaptability into their space how can we capture a bit of that experience and bring it like what could what could we do and I think it's like and how do you incorporate um all the different cultures and perspectives and you know people experience space in a different way like for me Istanbul I found it so exhilarating and it really that I'm an extrovert and I love these things right for somebody else it would be absolutely exhausting it'd be just overly busy overly smells, sights, just too much of it.

12:11Samantha Jinks:So how do you import? Well, and then translating to the office, how do you incorporate all of those different things? So, but I think it goes back to what we're saying about having multifunctional spaces. So, you know, up here is, can be vibrant and the summer and loud and noisy. And then you've got downstairs, which is a bit quieter. What's your perfect project? What's your perfect client? I'm such a sucker for a good brand. Like I love a fashion brand. That's just my background. Yeah. So that's exciting to me, but also just having the project team as well. It just depends on who you're doing it with.

12:46Samantha Jinks:It might not be the most like exciting, you know, design, but if it's a project team that works well together and everybody gets along and you're all excited about it, I like that. I love that. I love when everyone's equally excited about it and wants to work together yeah which is a bit cheesy but no it's it is a thing isn't it and it's a case it comes back to that community piece because you want to like find your tribe I mean how many people are saying that to me at the minute like everybody's like going out freelance or trying to like find companies where they can really be themselves and find more of themselves and like kind of just click and chill yeah not to not do any work like to actually people are really striving to be highly productive but in a very on their terms and in a very unpressurized environment it feels like yeah i think i think that finding your tribe is is definitely yeah key i think tsk has done a really um you know we've been around for 30 years and it's the same ceo ian holden he's done an excellent job of creating this culture where he said everyone celebrated for what they bring to the table.

13:55Samantha Jinks:And it's a place where, you know, you want to do your best work, which I think then translates into, you know, how we deal with our clients and passing that along. Where are TSK based? Manchester in London. So do you have an actual office here? Yeah. You're not just, not just in here. No, no. I have an office that I spend most of the time at. And how many people are there? I think we're about 40 now. So there are 120 and 20 else together between the two studios yeah and then 14 and more go yeah yeah I've never been there you're welcome to come well there we go I've got it on camera oh that's cool that's really cool so like your role like Samantha you're what is your what's your actual title I hadn't even introduced that I think it's director of business development technically but what does that actually look like yeah I feel like I have the best job actually because I spend a lot of my day meeting with our partners, part of the project team.

14:52Samantha Jinks:So whoever that could be, project managers, cost consultants, designers. This is internal. External. External to TSK. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other half of the day are meeting with our end user occupier clients. So kind of helping them to figure out what the brief is and bringing the team around. Our internal TSK team around them, helping to, you know, figure out how we could partner together. okay so you're talking to a client that they might be looking for a new space yeah do you have to like kind of extract that brief out of them is it like pulling teeth um you know with our industry as well like sometimes we're talking about like timelines are so long yeah we're talking to clients now about projects that might be happening in 2028 2029 and it's like how do you how do you help them when there might not be a lease event until 20 days.

15:43Samantha Jinks:So sometimes those are health checks. Sometimes it's just really understanding the culture of that business and what is working for them and what isn't and how we can make it better. As I said, we used to talk about like, how do you make the workplace productive and how do you bring joy? But now we're talking about how do you bring belonging? So, you know, we have a, you have a large internal strategy team. So it's bringing them along, helping the client figure out what that journey is and and yeah so the strategy gene was kind of like build out the brie like trying to find like like you're kind of connect you're like the connector yes you like connect everybody together it's crazy to me because when I firstly ended here I did not know a single person and now you're the connector yeah yeah so what is it like what are clients kind of I mean they're asking for belonging but and a sense of belonging it's like kind of what people are talking about now.

16:36Why are they saying it? What problem are they trying to fix with that?

16:40Samantha Jinks:Well, I think we're still having conversations around hybrid work and how much space we need. People are being pulled in different directions, especially like American companies right now making decisions that are based off of what's happening in the US that's going to affect UK real estate decisions. So it's happened several times where we've had people um or companies in the u.s say okay everybody's got to be back four days a week we've all built designed offices for two to three days a week so if you add in that extra day how do you make that happen and it's putting you know the uk side into a panic that's a massive ask to say like okay now we need 500 people back in four days a week are you finding that a lot yeah it feels like everybody's doing and it does feel like a lot of people are doing an office mandate nowadays like a lot of people are saying like we need you back in five days a week as well yeah and to be honest I never really stopped I'm all up for flexibility I am all up for it but personally for me I never really I always did the full yeah it just worked for me yeah but I'm in five days a week most of the time today I'm obviously here yeah but I would still call that in I suppose when I say not in I mean like working from home yeah yeah I don't reckon you do it but I'm always out and about but I like to pop into the office because I have to see the team.

18:00Samantha Jinks:I have to see what we're working on, what they're hearing in the market, what our designers are up to, um, and get all the gossip. Yeah. You know? So your strategy team, then you connect to your strategy team with your end client, if you like, they're thrashing out, like, how can we make this more belonging? How can we bring people back more and the four days a week? And how do those insights translate into a practical design so i think the benefit for us of having this in-house strategy team who they are brilliant you should meet them everyone should meet them yeah i'm gonna be me and them so we're able to to have those insights and design conversation at the same time so we could bring in the design team um and it's just a seamless transition yeah and then obviously that goes through the design iterations and then you're actually also did bring it too yes so do you still keep in the over then i occasionally will go on site so one of the things we help our clients with is this activation piece so we will arrange for their the client side to come and see the space before we start our site so we can tell them what's coming what to expect help with the the user vibe um because we just want everybody to be excited so when you when you include people in the journey they feel again that sense of belonging and they're excited for the space and they know what's coming there's no surprises there's no confusion so that's where i get involved and occasionally i'll pop on site to see how things are going so how and how do you find that what are the typical resistance points you get with people coming back like when that activation people want to know where they're sitting you know they don't want to be too close to the microwave things like that it's most of the time it's we make it exciting and it is exciting because normally they're getting an upgrade but if there's a big location change that there might be some friction there um again most of the time it is it is excited oh it is exciting but then there's always human nature like change and some people like excited about it other people worried about it and you've got all those different like types of minds as well like in terms of neurodiversity and like accessibility and how am I going to get there and what does my day look like now and what have I got to do differently and and it's totally understandable concerns and that's i guess what the activation piece would help to like yeah navigate through those exactly so i think it's just being really clear about what's coming and then making sure you communicate it in a way so it's exciting but i think it's like and i'm sure facility managers get this all the time but people do like to insulin don't they yeah yeah just mitigating some of that i think um you do get you'd get some really you know the granular questions of like okay so how do i you know how do i get to which list do i use and how do i get up here and then where am i sitting and then you know where's my locker because that's their journey but and what is that you have to share what that journey looks like yeah we tend to get like very narrow don't we like where's my locker where's my desk is it by a microwave but like it's it's them envisioning working there as well yeah and it's not a bad thing to like in a sense like if you've got those objectives at least they're trying to find their path aren't they they're not just totally black block wall they're just trying to find their pathway do you then go back get feedback once they're in find out how that is what sort of what sort of vibes and feedback do you get there yeah so we'll come in after we do a hundred day review and then again like the the following year and then the following year after that so we have very much a partnership approach so we're not like leaving they're not saying like oh don't care how it goes yeah good luck bye yeah yeah yeah you're sitting there like for three years or two years yeah we again we um 70 75 of our work is repeat clients so to keep that client relationship we want to check in and see how things are going yeah yeah so i mean that's great yeah that's brilliant yeah it's good to have nice clients you get to work with and then it's nice to go back oh totally yeah so i think some of the some of the bits that we see meeting to change is just you know maybe a meeting room needs to come desks if they hired more people maybe they need more flexibility maybe some of the collaboration areas again need to be more guests dusting things like that so you know how is the space being used once it's actually done is it living up to the intention yeah and samantha i've got one more question for you um what music do you listen to to concentrate to concentrate yeah when i'm working i actually don't listen to music i think i do run every morning and i listen to music then and i listen to like um something like a specific beats per minute and it's like 2010 like pop music and it's so oh what are you gonna say 2010 beats per minute i was like how fast are you how fast are you running like music that i used to dance to when i was at university is so bad i'd be so embarrassed to show you my spotify by oh to be honest it's it's it's personal it's memories it's it's totally makes it's fine i think it depends on the mood too but sometimes like i love a bit of cruise for spring steam because i could be an old soul girly i'm loving olivia dean right now sometimes i like the girly pop fits sometimes like jazz or class full of people who need like chill.

23:28Yes.

23:29Samantha Jinks:That's the variety. And you switch it up. And you run around here. Yeah. I live in Elkin and Castle. So I run actually down Burrow High Street along the Thames and then back. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. It's really, that's really nice. And then you come here to do your work. Yeah. From Columbus, Ohio. And I feel like I'm a London girlie now. Yeah. You're definitely a London girl. Are you going to go back? I don't know. I mean, my mom asked me that question at least once a week. I bet I bet but I do love it here yeah great yeah well thank you so much for coming on Samantha it's great and everybody you've got a sneak peek of us like marginally cold by a beautiful pool um you can imagine it's sunny and it's like vibrant busy here normally um and yeah so do your thing and subscribe to the show so we can get more great guests like Samantha on and for now Samantha thank you very much.

24:28Samantha Jinks:Thanks for having me. It's great thank you.