Episode 176: Nicole Appleton

0:04Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Hello, I'm Sophie Ellis-Bextor and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it all work. I'm a singer and I've released eight albums in between having my five sons aged between seven years old and nearly 22, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a little bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. I am so jet-lagged, I don't even know which way's up, and I just got to spend some time crying with laughter because I found an account on Instagram with people posting awkward family photos, and you know when you're just in the mood for a giggle, and then I was actually crying with laughter and no one else was finding it that funny but I think it's actually because I'm incredibly tired greetings from I'm in San Francisco now my darlings uh I have been up since four o 'clock this morning local time it's now nine o 'clock uh I was up with my youngest uh back home I realized he would have woken up must have been kind of like five 12 o 'clock midday but for me in sort of australian time it was like getting up at like 9 p.m i but i don't know what time it is anymore i've absolutely lost track i spent two weeks in australia and new zealand but even within that time frame you're moving around different time zones so the last place we were in for two days was perth which is only eight hours ahead of the UK but then I've flown now to San Francisco where I'm eight hours behind the UK and I met the kids when we were here so everybody's kind of topsy-turvy but I'm just getting on with it I uh I came here to do some singing I finished that last night now and now we've got a half-time week chilling out together and actually I think it's going to be really cute it's a little bit rainy here but it's nice to be away it's nice to do something different for half time we never normally come away uh this time of year as a family so it's quite exciting we're staying in an airbnb and um yeah see what we get up to today i've just i was just finishing breakfast right now uh the tour was so much fun if you were one of the people who came thank you so much I feel like I'm repeating myself a little bit by saying this but I do mean it from the heart but it's just extraordinary to me I'm having these new adventures now honestly if anyone out there is a creative you really just don't know what's around the corner because I've just finished my first ever headline shows here in Australia and New Zealand and I've always loved coming and performing i've done loads of different shows in in australia over the years um but they've been a mixture of solo shows and then last 18 months ago i came with the band for the first time to support take that but you know that's still a very different thing so doing my own shows has been really incredible and there was never a given that that was those days were going to come so really appreciated it played some really cool venues we finished up in a brilliant one in Perth it's kind of like a little outdoor it's got a kind of like almost like a festival outdoor setup but they do it as a standalone show so that was really cool and then some really nice more sort of bandy clubby venues along the way as well including one in Melbourne called The Forum which is really iconic and I'd been to see Confidence Man there a couple of years back and it's a very cool venue kind of like a slightly smaller Brixton Academy kind of a feel um i also had on the road with me holiday sidewinder who's a brilliant support act and actually i was thinking about her today like she's a friend we've done billions of tours together now we think we were counting maybe six tours we've done together and she works so hard and honestly i just think she really deserves all the good stuff that comes her way and then some because she's a brilliant performer she's written some absolutely wonderful pop music and also she's just like a really upbeat, positive, optimistic touring partner because she gets on with it.

4:32Sophie Ellis-Bextor: She works incredibly hard, but she's always really fun to be around. So, yeah, shout out to her too. And, yeah, it was just really glorious. As was my conversation with my guest for the podcast this week, I had the joy of spending time with Nicole Appleton. Nicole and I have said hello over the years, but very briefly you know just sort of paths crossing here and there and then um we follow each other on instagram which always gives you doesn't it that idea that you are sort of getting a little bit more insight into each other's lives she always comes across so well and i was thinking about her and her sister and her bandmates from all saints because there's been a few programs on recently about being in boy bands and girl bands and the girl band documentary I thought was a really good insight and had her bandmate Melanie Blatt on there talking about being in All Saints and I thought actually I think Nicole has got a similar thing to me where because she tours with her sister it makes that whole environment just that bit more wholesome and they're clearly very close they clearly really enjoy what they do and it It means you're always with someone who's kind of got your back, plus the fact that all of the All Saints were friends going way back.

5:55Sophie Ellis-Bextor: So she has been putting music out since the 90s, when All Saints absolutely weren't huge. And then has done solo projects with her, well, I say solo, a duo with her sister, Natalie, under the name Appleton. And they first released some music about 20 years ago and then had a hiatus where they went off and did other things. they did some more stuff with All Saints and then they've come back together they have released some new material partly brought about by conversations from their eldest children who both were really encouraging of working together with you know why don't you do some more music with Auntie Nat and vice versa which I thought was really adorable.

6:37Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Nicole's got two children she's got Gene who's in his mid-20s he's 24 and he's a musician and he's on tour at the moment and then she's got a little girl called Skipper who's just about to turn six and yeah she just seems really happy she's married for the second time to Skipper's daddy seems very happy in her relationship and told this extraordinary quite jaw-dropping actually story of how when she became pregnant with Skipper in her mid-40s her doctor kind of advised that maybe she might keep it a bit quiet at the beginning because of the risks associated with motherhood at that time in your life and she just decided to stick with the secrecy oh it's getting a bit noisier here oh it's all right jesse's going a different direction sorry i'm quite an echoey house um so essentially nicole spent the entirety of her pregnancy only talking about it with her sister and her family and her husband and his family and no one else none of her girlfriends knew she was pregnant so she tells it extraordinarily well but also it really gave me tingles I thought it was a phenomenal tale so I'm going to leave you with that and um yeah I will see you on the other side but it's a really really good story and also I just really loved hanging out in the cold what a lovely woman see you in a minute

8:07Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Well, firstly, I've been so looking forward to seeing you today, Nicole. How are you?

8:10Nicole Appleton: I've been looking forward to it as well. Really happy. Thank you so much for asking me.

8:14Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Not at all. I mean, it's funny. There's so many parallels in our careers, like from where they started and the wiggly paths we've been on. But I want to start with the here and now, because you've got a beautiful new single with your sister,

8:28Nicole Appleton: which I really love. It's so good. I think the reason why it feels so good is because there was no pressure and we weren't even planning on releasing a single. We'd done a vinyl that we released for our album 23 years ago. And it feels really weird saying that. And we got a lovely feedback from it.

8:52Sophie Ellis-Bextor: So I just thought, wouldn't it be nice maybe next year, this is last year, saying maybe we should do some festivals and do some of the songs from the album.

8:59Nicole Appleton: because, you know, people want to hear it still. Yeah. And then I don't know where it came along. I think our kids were like, well, just go in and do something. Why don't you maybe just do, maybe come out, do a single, and then do the festivals. So it was really simple. It was really easy, and it happened very quickly. And it was kind of, we felt so happy with each other that it kind of came across that way in the song and the lyrics and everything. And it was that easy. It wasn't planned or anything. I almost feel like it's weird that we're talking about a new single when it was not on the cards at all.

9:30Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, well, I can actually, you're right. It really transmits that you've got that pure heart of just thinking we're doing this for the love of it.

9:38Nicole Appleton: Yeah.

9:38Sophie Ellis-Bextor: And it's in the video clip. It's in the lyrics. And it's nice you mentioned the lyrics because I was reading them on the way here because very sweetly, when I was organizing, talking to you today, Adam from management sent me not just the blurb, but the lyric sheet and everything. And I was like, oh, this is so sweet. So I could really sit and pour over them. And I was thinking, I know that there's obviously a romantic angle to the song falling into you, but it's also got the relationship you have with Italy and how much you've weathered, but also how you can feel so renewed at this part of your life.

10:13Nicole Appleton: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we, you know, we do say, obviously, a lot of people can relate to it in their own ways. I mean, I was like, wouldn't it be a lovely wedding song or something? You know, you think beyond what you're feeling with each other. And I just think it just comes across. And we enjoy singing it because it's so positive and it's so nice. And I think that's what we kind of need in the here and now.

10:37Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, and I wondered as well how much that is part of getting to this point in our lives as well. Yeah. This sort of slight renewed positivity that can come from really knowing yourself, knowing your friends, your family, the things that make you happy. Yeah. The simplicity being the good stuff.

10:57Nicole Appleton: Yes. Yes, like we said early to bed. I know.

11:01Sophie Ellis-Bextor: The celebration of the wholesome. The wholesome.

11:03Nicole Appleton: Yeah, it's a great stage in life. And I think that's, to us, maybe that's what it represents.

11:08Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, definitely. And it's funny because, you know, you mentioned 23 years since your album. But how do you feel about amassing time like that? Because I've been thinking about that loads.

11:21Nicole Appleton: Well, first of all, it doesn't feel like it's been 23 years. So that's me getting my head around that and this whole big thing that's been going over the internet about 2016. That feels like yesterday. So I'm just like, where did the time go? You know, you see your kids grow up, but because they're in front of you, you still don't see that as time. You just see your kids growing up. But when someone throws the dates at you, it just makes you want to go, okay, we're moving too quickly. Time's moving too quickly. You've got to really slow the pace down. And, yeah, I think it is scary thinking it was 23 years ago.

11:58Nicole Appleton: But it feels good now. It actually does feel good now. We've been through a lot with our career and with family and stuff like that. So we're in a good place.

12:07Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, you definitely are. And I think there's a lot to be toasted and enjoyed about all these years. It's funny you mentioned the 2016 craze because when I'm flicking through Instagram, I'll just see a picture of someone and I think,

12:18Nicole Appleton: God, they look really well.

12:20Sophie Ellis-Bextor: And I realize it's like from a decade.

12:22Nicole Appleton: Yeah. It's weird. But I've talked about this the other day. I thought it would have been better if it was like 2006 or maybe 1996 when you really see like a real change. It's true. Whether it's fashion or, you know, whatever it is. But it's nice to see that dramatic. I don't think, I mean, people do get younger, but it just feels not that long ago. You're right.

12:42Sophie Ellis-Bextor: It's only a long time to the younger people.

12:46Nicole Appleton: Yeah, the 10-year-olds are now 20. I was going to say my 10-year-old.

12:48Sophie Ellis-Bextor: He was trying to explain to me what memes were around. And then his big brother's going, you weren't even born then. You didn't know that. I mean, you've mentioned your kids. So you've got your boy, is he 24?

13:00Nicole Appleton: Yeah, so Jean's 24 and Skipper will be six in March. Yeah. Yeah.

13:05Sophie Ellis-Bextor: How, I mean, firstly, I loved hearing that your boy, well, your boy and Natalie's boy, were so integral to what you're up to now.

13:14Nicole Appleton: Yeah. Well, they kind of have no choice. We're constantly, we chat about everything in front of them all the time. You know, they hear us on the phone. They hear us, you know, because we're sisters, obviously, we're at my mom's house and they hear everything.

13:27Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah.

13:27Nicole Appleton: So I think they just kind of have that very, it's so sweet when they have an opinion because it actually means more to me than anybody else is because I feel really cool when they like something that we've done or just to have their opinion because I trust it more than anything and I thought you know what Jean I'm gonna he said ask auntie now and okay I will so that's what happened but it's I love it when they get involved because he doesn't often you know I'm not allowed to get involved in his stuff at all he doesn't you know he he does his own music and he won't play it to me I hear it when it's ready to go like because he just gets worried that I might get have my opinions or I might get stressed about something or so he keeps everything quite private so it's nice when he suddenly says something so I'm like oh okay I'll

14:13Sophie Ellis-Bextor: listen to you yeah that's very sweet and I think testament to the relationship that you have with one another I mean even just hearing about that before even before you elaborated told me so much

14:24Nicole Appleton: about your relationship with each other yeah I mean he's I mean he's 24 but he's still my baby Of course. I love him. Like I could squeeze his guts with love. He's that sort of thing. I'm just so proud of him and everything. And he makes me laugh. And he makes us all laugh. And his relationship with Skipper is just adorable. He might be 24 and she's six, but he'll become six for her. And he's just, you know, they have the best time. He gets on her page. And the other day when we have to tell her that she can't look at her iPad for too long, she's like, well, I just want to live with Jean. I'm like, okay.

14:58Nicole Appleton: Like that's who she just wants to live with. They just don't live with us. But they have the most wonderful relationship. You wouldn't even know that they're so far apart in age.

15:08Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Well, I think it's nice, firstly, to sing the praises of our young adult sons. My eldest boy is 21, nearly 22.

15:15Nicole Appleton: Yeah.

15:16Sophie Ellis-Bextor: And I love the relationship we have. And like you, every time he has a birthday, I'm just so excited and proud and happy to have this person growing and blossoming. and um also like you i share you know i talk things through yeah so when he picks up on something i've said it's like firstly there's a sort of sweet protective optimism that accompanies his intention with his suggestions yeah also he's listening yes actually paying attention to what goes on and i like that yeah and also his take on things interesting and presumably the same with gene yeah his viewpoint his perspective yeah and i wonder if this has happened for you as well but when I've talked to my oldest boy called Sonny and when I've spoken to him about the perception of age in pop music he's actually been one of the biggest cheerleaders for saying that is literally not even really a thing yeah and it's been really nice to have that encouragement yeah around me like it's helped me feel like able to embrace everything yeah I I just stare at Gene

16:19Nicole Appleton: when he talks to me I just sometimes I'm like he'll be telling me something I'm just like I just love you you know and you just think I don't care what you're saying to me I just love you so much it's that that's when I look at Gene that's how I feel oh that's so sweet yeah you I just can't get my head around him and you know he's he has his moments but he you know he's he finds his feet he's got the biggest heart as well um but with music I also think with them with music he likes music from years ago you know he's he's got this sort of whole decades of music that he's storing in his little brain and it just blows me away and he knows exactly what he's talking about so when he does tell me about stuff I'm like okay yeah I totally hear that yeah I

17:05Sophie Ellis-Bextor: really really that really resonates and I think also so when his sister was I haven't got a massive it's not quite as broad a gap but there's 14 years between my eldest and my youngest so my youngest just turned seven a few weeks ago yeah and I think seeing my eldest when he was in his teenage years with a baby was actually it was quite a lot of good that came from that as well

17:27Nicole Appleton: for his perspective and outlook as well yeah I think it's something that is not we don't really sing the praises of it as much probably because I don't know maybe people tend to be now having

17:40Sophie Ellis-Bextor: their first children i think the average age in london for your first baby is something like 32

17:45Nicole Appleton: might even be older actually yeah i think might be older yeah yeah which and so you people are

17:51Sophie Ellis-Bextor: having one or two they're having them closer together later on which obviously however the cards for with your family is yeah it's the right thing but just having these big dynamics i mean i remember my youngest started nursery the same week my eldest had his first driving lesson and i felt just sort of quite clever that that was what was going on yeah he's two positions very different things going on in their world.

18:12Nicole Appleton: Yeah. I think, you know, I, I hear, I mean, when I had Jean, I was, I think 24 maybe. And I feel like him and I sort of grew up together. I mean, I didn't get, not that saying help is bad because, because obviously I wanted help when I got Skipper, but I just felt like, in fact, I never grew up with the word nanny in my life. I didn't have any friends that had nannies. I didn't really know what a nanny did. I used to watch the Brady Bunch and think I'd love the lady that does their cooking and stuff. I used to want her but I didn't really know what that was all about because I wasn't in a world where my friends had nannies or anything like that so I did Gene basically came to work with me all the time when he was little like when we did our Nat and I did our Appleton album it's 20 he was one so um yeah I was just trying to think of the math he was one and we've got footage of him me in the studio with him and feeding him and his dad was really hands-on as well really hands-on so that's so I feel like he grew up with me because I was still a kid myself kind of deep down the side.

19:10Nicole Appleton: I mean, I was learning the ropes in the music industry and all that kind of stuff and making mistakes. But he was on that ride the whole way with me. Whereas Skipper, it's a completely different story. It's like, you know, she was born during COVID. Of course. So she, I remember thinking, I think I'm going to get a night nanny because I'm tired now. You know, it's been a long time. And I thought it would be nice to get somebody to do night feeds and stuff like that. So we had this all planned out. But when she was born, it all got canceled. So we literally just had to do exactly what I did before, which kind of made it quite nice.

19:49Nicole Appleton: You know, I didn't because there was nothing anyone can do. We were in this little bubble together. And yeah, so she she it was very different. But now I'm a different sort of mom to her. I'm sort of I haven't changed as a person but I'm I'm just not as maybe energetic as I was I am but I'm not as I felt like a teenager with Jean now I feel like what I feel weird saying is but I feel

20:14Sophie Ellis-Bextor: like a mom with Skipper I feel like Jean's sister now I feel like her mom but it's a really hard

20:20Nicole Appleton: thing where and when she's with me and Jean Jean's like oh mom and all this kind of stuff and Skipper it's just really funny the dynamics but having them so far apart I feel like it's it is a real difference having them very young and having Skipper when I did when I was 44 I think well I

20:37Sophie Ellis-Bextor: guess as well working in music keeps part of you crystallized as well yeah so not only were you chronologically it's a young age to have your first baby but you're also working in the environment that's actively encouraged us to keep playful, particularly if you're working with your sister and your friends in music. We're allowed to keep playing for a really long time.

21:01Nicole Appleton: We still kind of do.

21:02Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, I know. We still kind of do. We still kind of do. I just go to bed earlier now than I did with Jean.

21:08Nicole Appleton: I'd be like scared coming home thinking, because obviously when, like I said, we didn't have any help, but we had the most amazing mother-in-law on my ex's side and my parents and my sisters. So we had babysitters coming out of our, you know, everything. So I remember thinking, oh, my God, it's like Jean's going to be waking up and we're just getting home. It was awful. It was those days. And I was like, oh, my God, I could never do that now. Like, it's like, I still can't believe I did. You know, it wasn't all the time, but there'd be those times where you think, how did I do that? How did we get through it?

21:39Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, that's funny, isn't it? When you look back and you think, how did I have the energy? but I guess also within your world your so I don't know about your older sisters older older sisters I know you're the youngest but Natalie had a baby when you must have been in your teens right yeah so that's another thing as well to be an auntie then and see your sister turn into a

22:00Nicole Appleton: mum at that point yeah well Rachel is Natalie's daughter was like a little sister to me I can

22:06Sophie Ellis-Bextor: imagine that because you would have been I think I was 15 when she was born yeah I was 15 when she

22:12Nicole Appleton: was born and I remember just feeling like it was so nice to not be the youngest because Rachel we all sort of were like her mom because she was in you know we were all together so we were all like you know Nat obviously was her mom and did the best job but we all kind of took that role on as being a mother figure to her and she just turned into like a sister you know she just as she got older it was like we were sort of on the tape because my eldest sister is 10 years older than

22:38Sophie Ellis-Bextor: me okay so I felt like my relationship with Lee is very much like my relationship with Rachel

22:43Nicole Appleton: that makes sense so we we like now we talk about everything we talk about everything now and uh so yeah again it was like and then you know we see Rachel and it's like when we think okay let's all the cousins sit on one table but then Rachel's with us you know but she's the

22:59Sophie Ellis-Bextor: cousin she's one of the cousins yeah but she's an yes but she was an she's an adult now but also I I guess as the only baby then she would have been the one.

23:07Nicole Appleton: She was really funny because we all had kids around the same time. So Jean, Ace is Nats, the little one, and my sister Laura had Frank. And then there was Rachel. And I don't know if you remember the cartoon, The Rugrats. Of course.

23:17Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Angelica, yeah.

23:19Nicole Appleton: She was like Angelica. She used to go, I hate these babies.

23:22Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Because they used to drive her mad because she was the girl

23:24Nicole Appleton: and they would go up to her and do silly things to her. But they have the most amazing relationship, all of them. They're very, very close. so yeah she used to be so funny she used to be like can you just take them out the room

23:39Sophie Ellis-Bextor: for five minutes you know just hilarious I can really picture that because at her age when they were all coming along they must have been quite yeah really attached to her leg and she was like oh yeah just driving her mad just like being silly like it's just it was just wonderful but I bet they adored having her around

23:56Nicole Appleton: I adore

23:56Sophie Ellis-Bextor: and that's what she hated as well yeah she was like

24:00Nicole Appleton: oh why'd you have to

24:01Sophie Ellis-Bextor: leave me with them like it's fine they're your cousins and did you always like the idea of being a mom did you always do that yes

24:07Nicole Appleton: I I loved it from day one I loved it from day one I I and it's also weird because my gene it was just like the easiest pregnancy ever and it was easiest birth ever and I used to never want to tell anyone that because I know the horrors that people go through so I used to think yeah you know but it was really really easy skipper steam was a tiny steam was five pounds 13 ounces skipper was eight and a half so i was like i feel like something in the atmosphere went okay you didn't experience it this is what it's really like so so i was so i had this whole thing i don't know if

24:45Sophie Ellis-Bextor: you know i kept my pregnancy well i was going to ask you yeah i saw that but i was going to ask you

24:50Nicole Appleton: about that is that true yeah yeah so what happened was i got pregnant with um skipper and at first i remember going to see my doctor because Steve and my husband has never had children and I didn't know if I was going to be able to have children and I didn't know if I wanted to have any more children because I feel like I feel like I've done it all and and I kind of passed go and and uh and she said well you know at your age and I hate saying this but they say you have old eggs and I'm like that it's really ugly don't say that so I was like it doesn't sound great it doesn't

25:21Sophie Ellis-Bextor: sound sexy or anything you don't walk out with your head held high no you don't and I had just

25:25Nicole Appleton: I felt like a chicken and all that kind of stuff.

25:28Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Do you know what I mean?

25:29Nicole Appleton: Yeah. So I was like, I don't want to tell him that. And I said, look, well, I know that, you know, with my mom having all of us, I thought there's got to be something in my DNA. I think I'm going to be OK. I think if I really want to have a child, I think I can have them. It happened straight away. Straight away to the point where my doctor was so blown away because it was she gave me my statistics of being able to and then to carry it to make sure that I didn't have a miscarriage and all that kind of stuff. So I said, oh, my God. She said, well, don't say anything to anyone yet because of your age and because, you know, you might not be able to carry the baby.

26:06Nicole Appleton: So I said, OK. And then after three months, she said, I still would wait because she had somebody who lost her baby at nine months because of an age thing. So I got really frightened and I thought what I don't want to do is start telling everybody I am because I'm too worried that I'm I'm almost jinxing it. So I kind of kept it quiet. and also my daughter is the doctor of my friends. We all have the same doctor. And I used to say, but Claire, she went, well, look, just keep it a secret. Don't tell anybody. She went, don't worry, my lips are sealed. I'll make sure when you come in for your appointments, it's not in the same day as this person's coming in or that person's coming in.

26:41Nicole Appleton: And when I got to, and then I remember thinking, it was just so fortunate that my pregnancy was, when I was big, was through November, December, and January, February, March. So I was growing right until the beginning of March. and I went out with everybody when I was six months pregnant. That was the last time I went out with everybody before I, because no one knew. And I remember everyone having champagne,

27:03Sophie Ellis-Bextor: and I asked the waiter for ginger ale in a champagne glass.

27:06Nicole Appleton: Wow. And no one knew, so I was drinking ginger ale in a champagne glass. And then from then on I thought, okay, now I'm going to have to think of things to say to everybody. And there was, you know, we usually go to New York for Christmas, so I was away. I said, I'm going to New York for Christmas. and then there were some birthdays coming up and I said that I couldn't make it. I try not to really lie. I just said I couldn't make it. And then Claire said, right, you know you can tell everyone now or you just surprise them with a baby. And I was like, oh my God, I was so terrified about everyone's reaction.

27:44Nicole Appleton: So I had her.

27:46Sophie Ellis-Bextor: And I was like, nobody knows I've had her. It's just felt so weird.

27:50Nicole Appleton: but I we would FaceTime each other all the time so they'd see my face from the shoulders up wow I didn't gain any weight on my face so I'd FaceTime everyone all the time we'd all be chatting but I can't believe I haven't seen you in the song but FaceTime sort of made up for not meeting up with everyone because everyone could see you they almost got your fix and all that kind of stuff and we could chat about stuff and then the day I had her I was like I'm not telling anyone while I'm in the hospital let's just get home make sure everything's fine and I did this FaceTime call with like six of my friends and there was rumors apparently going around because one of my friends tries to be a sleuth saying I think Nick might be pregnant and my sister's like no my sister took a lot of flack by the way because she would go to the parties that I didn't go to and they'd all say can't believe your sister didn't come and my sister had to go Nikki everyone's going giving

28:41Sophie Ellis-Bextor: it to me and not you this is a lot yeah so she so anyway I phoned my friends one of them being Holly Willoughby she was on the call and um she at the time was working it this morning and everybody

28:54Nicole Appleton: answered the call except one particular friend and she was walking through the studios and everyone was like hi everyone I went hi and my other friends were on there I went guys I've got something to tell you and they went what and I said I'm pregnant because I didn't get that opportunity yet so I I thought I said, and meanwhile, I'm holding you. And I'm pregnant. They went, no way. And my other friend Nikki went, I knew it. I thought, everybody, that's why you haven't been coming out. I knew it. I knew you were pregnant. And I went, I've got something else to tell you. My heart is going like this.

29:26I went, and I've had her.

29:29Nicole Appleton: Holly fainted, literally onto her knees. My friends look like they froze. You know when you go, hello? Is everybody still there? they froze like as that a doll they thought it was a doll I was holding and I said no and then there was tears there was disbelief they they couldn't actually believe that I'd gone through a whole pregnancy and they never knew about it I can't quite believe I mean I'm

29:56Sophie Ellis-Bextor: getting this the anxiety feeling later and I'm still a bit shocked I know I feel like I'm telling

30:01Nicole Appleton: them again and it came I was so anxious I was literally shaking because I thought oh my god this is huge and none of them went why didn't you tell me but eventually I was like this is the situation and because they all knew Claire who was my doctor they were like I said all was it was all for medical you know advice and then it just turned into let's see how long I can do this for wow yeah but they were all and the one and one that well thank god at least you can drink now they didn't have to wait congratulations and all that yeah also we don't have to wait nine months for it now I was like guys so um so it was it was a real you know it's something that I mean I was I couldn't believe I did it but

30:44Sophie Ellis-Bextor: okay so that's what happened questions yes questions questions okay uh I appreciate where your doctor's coming from yeah but that's quite a lot for you to hold as well there's a lot of emotions that accompany pregnancy yeah and new motherhood and all these things so you're is this

31:04Nicole Appleton: solely being confided in who your my parents my sisters my husband my brother-in-laws you know

31:11Sophie Ellis-Bextor: all the kids knew gene knew and so okay so with gene are you saying terrified don't tell your

31:18Nicole Appleton: mates i just said i'm not telling anyone so and sometimes i think and then i remember him saying oh mom I told Rufus by accident his friend because they had too many drinks so that's okay not like Rufus is going to tell anyone or one of his friends but so I suppose as well at 18 you said

31:32Sophie Ellis-Bextor: he was right they're not really famous at 18 years for bringing up small talk about their parents yeah they're not having a baby and their other people is their friends don't actually care yeah

31:40Nicole Appleton: exactly they're like oh I'm not you yeah why are you talking about that they're probably thinking oh no you're gonna have a baby in the house you know that's probably what they're thinking yeah But so I felt happy with the support I had. Yes. It was, which was amazing. Like I said, Nat was the one that was sort of in the firing line. Yeah. She would sort of represent me at these certain events that we were both invited to. Yeah. And have to be the one that stood there going. And did you enjoy the gap with your friends about this while you processed your emotions? Yeah, I also like the fact that, you know, things can get out.

32:18Nicole Appleton: And I was quite happy that nobody knew. I was glad the press didn't follow me. They followed me everywhere with Jean when I was pregnant. And would say things like, show the most awful picture of me, even though, you know, I'm big and pregnant, and say, doesn't she look gorgeous?

32:32Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Well, they know what they're doing with all that, don't they? Yeah, and I'm just like, I know that it hurts me. And it's like, you're hurting me. You're not saying anything nice because you know you've picked the worst picture. Yeah. So I also had that feeling of freedom of controlling my own life in my pregnancy, especially being at the age I was.

32:49Nicole Appleton: I didn't want to be scrutinized for all that kind of stuff either. So it kind of worked in a way where I had my own privacy for a change, you know?

32:55Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah. And if anything was happening at any point where you thought, I actually do want to speak to that person or this person, you had the control of that moment too. Yeah, I did. And even the press went, what?

33:06Nicole Appleton: And I was like, oh, thank God. It was nice to them. And then I put it out that I, you know, had her. She wasn't a secret. But, you know, I wasn't even going to keep it a secret to begin with. It was just the fear of what could have happened if, you know, it didn't go well. So it kind of happened sort of naturally. And then it did at the end. She's like, you can. I was like, she said, but wouldn't it be funny if you didn't tell her?

33:27Sophie Ellis-Bextor: So how far, where were you up to in the pregnancy when she said, you know, you can probably tell her?

33:31Nicole Appleton: I think it was probably the end of Jan, February. Okay. So it was sort of, maybe I was 10, 9. it was towards the end wow and you're like I've come this far I know and then you're picturing the zoom and then also I didn't want everyone to say can we come over and I'm like this and also I was like it was the whole baby shower and they're like we haven't done a baby shower for you and I said it's okay you don't have to have a baby shower for me it's fine those things don't mean anything to me you know I just want to have a healthy baby yeah that's it no I really get that

33:58Sophie Ellis-Bextor: and I think also conversations when I had my last so I was 39 and it was the first pregnancy where some of my girlfriends had got into their 40s and the idea of a baby, they would only talk about their emotions, about how they would feel if it was them, which most of them were saying, that is not what I want right now. And the idea of going back into new motherhood now doesn't sound appealing. And I'd be sat there thinking, I don't really need to hear this. Yeah, no, exactly. I'm having a baby and I'm happy about it. Yeah, yeah. And I don't need to reassure you about why this feels right for me.

34:37Sophie Ellis-Bextor: exactly so not having to carry that or or share with them updates yeah updates and you know what

34:44Nicole Appleton: when you have a group of friends that everybody wants to make sure you're right every two minutes it can be can we talk about something else because even though i'm pregnant i still have other things i'd like to talk about let's talk about somebody else for a change you know it kind of it kind of took all that away you know i i just cruised through it really nicely you know and i was i trained up until i was um because i i go to a gym which is was was allowed to be open because because it was not many people allowed in there, until it was two weeks before I gave birth.

35:10Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Oh, wow.

35:11Nicole Appleton: So that was my happy place, not talking about how I'm feeling and this and that and the other. And if I moaned, I'd moan to my sisters. I was like, oh, my back hurts or something like that. And it was easy. I didn't go into it. And also, if I told one friend, they'd all be upset that I told one friend. So I thought, I really can't tell anyone.

35:31Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I can actually really, at first I was thinking, wow, that's a lot for you to carry. but now I can understand that actually there was a lot it gave you that's almost quite instinctive. You know how cats, you know, they sort of squirrel themselves away when they're about to have babies. There is definitely a side of, you know, humans that quite like that snuggling, hibernating, you know, don't just leave me to do this. I'm going to just follow my garden. I've got enough.

35:57Nicole Appleton: I had enough. I've got three sisters, you know, and I've got my husband and I've got my mom and my dad. I had enough support to get through it you know that's I mean I speak to my family 100 times a day on FaceTime all of them so to then do that to then another friend wanting to speak to me another friend but the fact that I didn't even tell one of them because they'd say to each other did she

36:17Sophie Ellis-Bextor: not even tell you it no I can't I'm still picturing the zoom call with it was the zoom call and then

36:22Nicole Appleton: actually because I thought they don't even know that I didn't even get the joy of them saying oh oh my God, congratulations. So I thought, let me tell them I'm pregnant. And then I went, and then I had her, I'm telling you, if I just, I should have screenshot that moment of her faces

36:39Sophie Ellis-Bextor: because it was priceless. It really was. Yeah, I just want to come picture it for her. But then, but the worst thing was,

36:46Nicole Appleton: is that the day after she was born, we went into lockdown. So the last, they couldn't even come and see her.

36:51Sophie Ellis-Bextor: So it took even longer for everybody to come and see her.

36:54Nicole Appleton: but you know it was it was it was I actually really enjoyed that I you know with Jean like I said I had a lot of people following me around a lot of pictures a lot of that kind of stuff and all my friends involved then uh so this was it was quite nice I yeah it was it felt easy it felt like um I was able to enjoy it and just concentrate on being me and not caring all the time and and no efforts made to go out just to walk the dog it was just so nice I'm also super impressed

37:22Sophie Ellis-Bextor: with you I don't know if I could do that I don't know how good I am at holding big news I know it

37:30Nicole Appleton: was it was I know I wanted to tell everyone at first I did I wanted to tell everybody yeah but I was told not to well I wasn't told not to I was told just wait a second you know and even at the

37:41Sophie Ellis-Bextor: six month mark it was a bit still a bit iffy well I guess your doctor gave you permission to have that as a valid it was a valid yeah essential yeah to accompany and then they all then they all

37:55Nicole Appleton: said claire and they she went i know so she all obviously told them as well she was yeah she told

38:00Sophie Ellis-Bextor: them that you know confidentiality is part of her oath so actually but i did tell her i said to her

38:05Nicole Appleton: she could tell them because i don't want them to think it was all on me so i said claire when you see them can you just say you know it was it was medical advice do you think you would have thought of it if she hadn't said that no it wasn't on my mind at all no it's not something we would think of as an option usually. No it wasn't on my mind at all and also I was like I was worried that someone would find out and I was still in that sort of not it was like that danger zone I was worried because I was like I don't want anything to happen I don't want to get everyone's hopes up and then and then also that feeling of everyone being worried about me and all that kind of stuff yeah but then it turned out really funny.

38:38Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah and so when she was born after lockdown is this the first big pop thing you've been involved with yeah so well she since she was born we did do some gigs um again again we've done the reissue and was that right we did the reissue skip we did we did the isle of white festival when skipper was i think one or two and she came along to that

39:06Nicole Appleton: um but she was like a baby bouncing on stage with her big headphones on but now she's going to now that obviously we're doing the Mighty Hoopla. So we know that's been, that's sort of in the bag, which is one of my favorite festivals.

39:19Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Oh yeah, let's talk about Mighty Hoopla. Mighty Hoopla. It's going to be so good.

39:21Nicole Appleton: Yeah, so I think knowing that she's going to be the age she is now and she's very aware now and she knows music and she actually knows music that I don't know. She's going to really appreciate it. So I'm kind of really glad that it is happening

39:34Sophie Ellis-Bextor: so that she can see it, see us perform.

39:37Nicole Appleton: She went to this kid's camp over the weekend and Stephen went to collect her and she was playing my song in there. And she said, and they said, oh, it's really good. And then she played my son Jean's song. And apparently she told them all that she doesn't let her dad sing. He's not allowed to sing anything. Right. So it's just really funny.

39:59Sophie Ellis-Bextor: It's funny how she's grasped everything. That's so sweet.

40:02Nicole Appleton: Yeah.

40:03Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Well, how nice to sort of enjoy everything in this new, this chapter where it's funny because, you know, we sort of talked about it a bit at the beginning, but when, I mean, we both started our careers in the music industry in the 90s, which I don't know about you, but even though it was like, it taught me everything I needed to know in lots of ways, looking back, it was also quite a baptism of fire, I think. Oh, yeah. And I say that with a smile on my face because I did, I'm kind of glad as well that it was like, but it really was an extraordinary time.

40:36Nicole Appleton: There's something really proud to be said being a part of the 90s. like it was in all genres of music whether it was rap or you know rock music whatever a Brit pop it was also very cool all the music was very cool in the 90s so um there's that feeling of being part of that it was also a very exciting roller coaster ride so it had its ups and its

40:59Sophie Ellis-Bextor: downs yeah but we all held on didn't we we ended up being little survivors we all held on with no seat belt yeah it was um extraordinary but I think it gave doesn't it does your kids think

41:17Nicole Appleton: at school that we were part of the 90s because Gene always says to me mom what I would have done to be part of the 90s now he's his music is grunge so his is like nirvana and all that kind of stuff

41:27Sophie Ellis-Bextor: yeah I mean I guess he and and probably my eldest boy can appreciate that the I mean one of my kids not that long ago asked me if I was alive when the Titanic went down so I'm not sure

41:40Nicole Appleton: I'm not sure they quite got crossed on the chronology of the 90s yeah I think uh I think

41:46Sophie Ellis-Bextor: they just think I lived in black and white oh that's hilarious I know when you think of the 90s it does feel like that doesn't it when they get a bit older maybe but actually um my husband Richard he his parents house they've just been doing one of those big declutters oh

42:00Nicole Appleton: Oh, yeah.

42:01Sophie Ellis-Bextor: And so he's brought home boxes and boxes of stuff from his teenage years, which includes loads of old NMEs and this kind of thing. Oh, wow. And I was sat yesterday looking through it, and it really brought back memories. And I know for our oldest boy, he thought that was so cool. Yeah. He was absolutely riveted by all these things. Yes. So, yeah, I think that's a really cool box to find. I know what you mean by stuff, because there's stuff floating around of ours everywhere

42:29Nicole Appleton: and all sorts of stuff. but there's that and you can kind of get lost in it. Like I would probably sit for hours looking through it, just remembering everything and just looking at the dates and the headlines of everything and what people were doing then. And also, not even about us, about other bands. Oh, yeah, no, that was it.

42:45Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Because my first gigs were all sort of 97, 98. Yeah, yeah. And one of the NMEs was from 97. And even looking through it now, I remember the feeling of tension. Will we have made the pages anywhere? Would there be any mention of my band anywhere? I mean, the gossip column, maybe. Was I spotted somewhere? Yeah, did someone spit a drink on me?

43:06Nicole Appleton: Oh, it's brilliant, though. I love that. See, my mum has a lot of the magazines and stuff somewhere in her roof, her loft. But, yeah. It really brings it back. Yeah.

43:16Sophie Ellis-Bextor: And also, because obviously there's been, you know, a lot of, I don't know, looking back and thinking about that era. And, you know, music is such a portal for that. and um i recently had an amazing i was crying with laughter whatsapp group with my friends where we were talking about because we were all london girls and all obsessed with brick pop and we were talking about any how any uh it's really embarrassing any sort of brush with anyone that was in a band was really exciting and i was remembering that i'd got uh this will be so niche a cigarette burn from someone in northern uproar and my friend's one she was making me Was it worth the pain?

43:58Sophie Ellis-Bextor: No. My friends. One was that she'd snogged a bouncer who said he was the lead singer of Men's West Cousin.

44:07Nicole Appleton: Oh, my God. Do you know these names are, oh, my God.

44:13Sophie Ellis-Bextor: That's hilarious. I know. But do you know what?

44:16Nicole Appleton: It does bring back good memories, though, doesn't it? Oh, definitely.

44:19Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I mean, I'm so glad, really, that I had such escapades. Yeah. Yeah. And I was quite wild as well, which is maybe not what you'd imagine.

44:30Nicole Appleton: Yeah.

44:31Sophie Ellis-Bextor: But, you know, obviously recently as well, there's been those documentaries looking back at, like, the history of girl bands and boy bands, which have been really insightful as well.

44:40Nicole Appleton: Yeah.

44:40Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I think you have really were holding a golden ticket because firstly you were in a band with friends. Secondly, with your sister. Yeah, yeah. You cannot underestimate what it's like.

44:52Nicole Appleton: It was home from home every time we went on tour.

44:54Sophie Ellis-Bextor: And someone looking out for you.

44:56Nicole Appleton: Yeah, yeah.

44:57Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I mean. Yeah, we had each other's back. Can you even imagine what it would have looked like to have done all the things you've done if it's not with now? Yeah, yeah. No, exactly. It's amazing, isn't it?

45:06Nicole Appleton: And, you know, we knew we had each other's, you know, she needed to call me if we were in a hotel somewhere in, I don't know, Australia or something. You know, we were there for each other. Whereas everybody else, you sort of give them their space because when you're sisters, you don't, you have the same space. You give everybody else their space. So you don't, even though you hang out and you chat and you're friends, you kind of think, because we're working together, you can't always rely on that person. So it was really nice to have her. Still now.

45:33Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, exactly. And it sounds like you guys traveled around quite a lot.

45:36Nicole Appleton: Yeah.

45:38Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Does it feel strange to raise children that aren't doing that same sort of childhood?

45:43Nicole Appleton: Well, it's so funny because Jean is and Skipper, so Jean is on tour at the moment. Oh, okay. So he's supporting Miles Kane. But did he stay when he was his childhood?

45:53Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Must have been.

45:53Nicole Appleton: Yeah. So he, no, he came around. He toured. So he'd be traveling with you a lot? He would travel with us a lot. Gene did. So sweet. It was so sweet. And I loved every single minute of it. And he would also jump onto his dad's stuff when his dad was doing his stuff. So he was used to all that. This is new for Skipper. But also Gene has become a musician. Skipper is very athletic. I think it's because the dads like obviously Jean's dad does his thing but Stephen's quite athletic so she's and he's very hands on and so she does all different sports and stuff like that so I'm always like I don't know it's so weird having you know a child now that's so focused going that way and then one that I'm more knowing what Jean's doing like I'm used to that I'm not sporty at all

46:38Sophie Ellis-Bextor: you know

46:39Nicole Appleton: and I find myself

46:40Sophie Ellis-Bextor: you're in the gym until two weeks before I go to the gym I go to the gym as like a therapy thing

46:46Nicole Appleton: I feel like if I go to the gym I'm it's my way of you know or if I ran I used to run on the heath a lot until I had skipper and then I couldn't run anymore because she did something to my back but I used to find that my way of just dealing with everything I was going through whatever I was going through so I don't even if I go to the gym and I'm exhausted am I trying to go yoga I'm like just me being here is good you know just getting out the house and coming straight here first thing in the morning whereas you know like we'll go skiing and I'm that one that's completely backwards and Stephen's such an encouragement.

47:18Nicole Appleton: He'll say, but you're great. And I'm like, do you know what I mean? No, I'm not. And I try, but then Skipper's really good and he's really good and I'll just ski off to the side somewhere, you know, do my thing. But, you know, she's good at tennis and all that kind of stuff. It's like me, I like to go to the beach. I like to, I like to listen to music. I like to watch films. I'm sort of a bit more like that. Yeah. I get that buzz out of all that kind of stuff.

47:43Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, but also I really, later when you said going to the gym and you said just the fact that you went there is enough I think again that's the the joy of really knowing yourself and also just being like I don't need to worry too much about the bigger picture because I'm doing the things that work for me for now yeah it's it's a really nice feeling to yeah I just and you know everyone

48:02Nicole Appleton: says what'd you get out of it and I said I just there's just something that sets me up for the day you know and I feel like you know my trainer will tell me that his kids are really like I've got all of them because he's got two kids under four and they always seem to get the same bug from school. And he's like, I've been up all night. And I'm like, just you telling me what you're going through is helping me. I'd like to help you and say, oh, it'll be fine. You know, everybody gets it. I feel like just that has set me up for the day instead of me just sort of not doing anything.

48:31Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, yeah. No, I get that. The last thing I want to ask you about is something that's a very personal thing, actually. but so in my family I'm the eldest um so when my mum and dad separated it was just I was the only one from their marriage and then my mum and I were on our own she was my single mum with me until I have my she got remarried and had my little brother who's a drummer in my band so I know that traveling with family um and Rich is in the band as well it's the same sort of thing but um for my mum and I that time when it was just the two of us was like such a keystone in our relationship and I just wonder what your reflection would be on that with your firstborn and that time when it's just the two of you.

49:11Nicole Appleton: Well, Gene, when Liam and I separated, Gene was, I think, 12. And he slept next to me. Him and I would sit and just go and watch Family Guy. Every night, like religiously, we'd just sit and watch. And it was our thing. We'd both fall asleep, watch Family Guy, because he loved Family Guy. So I was like, okay, well, watch Family Guy. And I think he felt like my protector. and um and he was also very challenging because he was going through that sort of he's nearly a teenager and I was really nervous of you know when you saw that Kevin and Perry thing when they come downstairs and suddenly they're just like and I don't know if I could handle that but he did it really well like there was he had moments you know and but he was always quite supportive and now I mean cut to him and this for a while now we all get on really well like Gene gets on well with his dad like it's the best and I think but during that period like you said we just had each other's back without really talking about it we just were there for each other and um you know and always think when I don't remember that fine line where he suddenly went back to his room I don't remember because we were both so okay that it wasn't a moment where I felt like he was gone back to his room yeah so I was like I just you know I loved those nights as well yeah we just get into bed to watch Family Guy.

50:27Nicole Appleton: It was just,

50:28Sophie Ellis-Bextor: it was, you know, he made everything okay

50:29Nicole Appleton: in his way.

50:31Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah. Well, it probably has been a bit of a keystone thing. Yeah. Yeah.

50:36Nicole Appleton: Oh,

50:37Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I feel like I now need to start a range of the podcast where I speak to lovely offspring of people I've spoken to because he sounds very sweet. Oh, he's the sweetest.

50:46Nicole Appleton: He really is the sweetest boy in the world. It's just like, eat him just talking about him.

50:51Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I might introduce him to my oldest. I reckon I'd have a lot to chat about.

50:54Nicole Appleton: He's so sweet.

50:55Sophie Ellis-Bextor: We have better thoughts on our career plans. Yeah.

51:08Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Come on, how's that for a birth reveal story? Pretty impressive, right? Yeah. I mean, I was listening to this story from Nicole with just my mouth open, like, wow. how to go through a whole pregnancy and birth without telling a single girlfriend how satisfying to be able to share it with them at the end with this beautiful healthy bubba in your arms and I really get it actually and I suppose you know we had factors like COVID as well around floating around at that time which made it a little bit more of a time when you were kind of hibernating a bit but I suppose yeah you have this protective instinct sometimes and how good to just listen to yourself and think I think this is working for me and I'm going to stick it out very very cool super impressive um as is the new song from Nicole and Natalie Appleton Falling Into You it's really beautiful and they have such got such a sound sort of smooth optimistic grown-up pop music so please do check that out and I'm guessing around this time and I'm sorry to sound woolly, but my brain isn't working very well with the jet lag.

52:23Sophie Ellis-Bextor: But I think we're heading into the season back home where BBC Radio 2 are doing their piano room sessions. And I know that Appleton are doing one of those. So please go and have a listen to that as well, because it'll be really gorgeous. And I heard what cover version they're doing and it'll be very, very good. But yeah, back here. Sorry, it's funny. I just was having a quick look on the WhatsApp from my band and everybody's all scrambled. Most of them have gone back home. Portina on Keys, she's actually home for 10 days and then she's coming back, going back to Australia. So it's all a bit daft.

53:03Sophie Ellis-Bextor: A few of the band, no, actually a few of the crew have kind of done other things post-tour because you might as well. So it's about, it's nearly 50-50 for who went home and who did other stuff, but we're all a bit discombobulated. to say the least I mean yesterday I was thinking I was coping quite well with the jet lag of being now in the states and then Richard had to pop in to have a doctor's appointment yesterday so I took the kids just for a little wander in the local area and we were in Chinatown we went into one of those markets where they kind of got a little bit of everything and Mickey decided he wanted to wear yellow gardening gloves uh wearing a yellow baseball cap that said San Francisco and holding a little, I guess it's something you put in the garden, like a sunflower windmill thing spins around.

53:53Sophie Ellis-Bextor: He's like, can I buy these gloves and this sunflower? I'm like, sure, it'll look really funny. And I think that's about the bar, really. I'm just like, yeah, so long as it's funny, you can get away with stuff. And I think it's time that I go out and get us all some caffeine. Oh, it's such a shame. It's raining. I'm looking out the window. It's going to rain from now for like the next three days. So that's great. And I know it's been raining nonstop in the UK. And one of my girlfriends is in Berlin and it's raining there. And my manager's just flown to Los Angeles and it's raining there. So planet rain right now, mostly.

54:32Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Not in Australia though. Anyway, wherever you are, I hope you can find the sunshine in your heart. And I hope everything is well with you. And thanks for lending me your ears. thanks to Claire Jones who produces the podcast to Ella May does the gorgeous artwork to Richard husband who does the edit and pulls it all together but of course biggest thanks to you lending me your ears spending this time with me listen to me do my rambling slightly ranty very disjointed offload to your ears and I will see you again next week lots of love see you see and wish me some luck with you.

55:42Thank you.