Episode 177: Jamie Genevieve

0:04Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Hello, I'm Sophie Ellis-Bextor and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it all work. I'm a singer and I've released eight albums in between having my five sons aged between seven years old and nearly 22, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a little bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates.

0:39Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Hello, I am walking quite fast through fairly cold Californian rain. We brought the kids to meet us in San Francisco because I had a bit of singing to do here at the beginning of the week and unfortunately the weather has not been super kind it's all right I mean look there's been gaps in the weather and also there's so many fun things to do here that you know are indoors but I just popped out this morning like oh I think the weather is looking a bit better and it's it's raining and I left you know when you leave and you're like if I turn around now I could go and get an umbrella or something and you're like oh it's fine well it's not that fine it's pretty pretty cold rain but we're staying in an Airbnb in the suburbs and I'm walking past all these such pretty color houses I mean I would love to speak to the local area folk and find out how it works with the color of their houses because honestly if I went home and I was like I want to do okay I'm standing opposite the house okay hi guys I want to do um like a sort of pea green house with a sort of burgundy edging around all the windows and then a turquoise gate could you just is that okay I just feel like in my little pocket of west london there'd be some raised eyebrows here I'd be like sure but have you think thought about doing candy pink with purple trim and a blue gate every house is a different color and some of them are really really cool very unexpected combinations of colors so you know virtual high fives to lots of the people who live around here i approve of your approach to color uh we've been having a good week so far we've been to things like alcatraz and to the penny arcades yesterday a place called the exploratorium some great mexican we had yesterday it's been a nice way to spend a week and even the teenagers i think are slowly thawing out the resentment that they feel about not just being able to stay having lions and doing not very much at home normally that would be absolutely doing halftime we just seized this opportunity because it popped up um and i do believe i will win them over 100 who bloody knows though i mean that's just a default setting when you're a teenager and i can remember that feeling so well anyway um this week i have oh such a lovely woman jamie genevieve she's a makeup artist entrepreneur businesswoman she has a makeup line called vive which has been around for six years very successful she focuses on lovely big noisy fire truck beautiful sort of slightly dewy skin items there's a lovely blush that I've been using there's a wicked eyeliner pen everything's kind of designed to make your skin look a bit luminous and dewy and nice but lovely colours in there as well because Jamie likes her makeup as do I so it's not just about skin it's also about a bit of colour and lipsticks and blush

4:10Jamie Genevieve: and oh sorry the rain's getting really hot I know

4:15Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I might have my coffee on my own in the cafe and then walk back with theirs when it dries off and she has a little girl who's two with her husband Jack Jack and Jamie are sort of childhood sweethearts Jamie started out working in, well first of all a play centre but when she got a bit older she started working behind the counter in a make-up department inside a department store and absolutely loved it and then she began a YouTube channel which really blew up massively and now as I say has her make-up done as well she also revealed during our chat that she's having her second baby which is very exciting so huge congratulations to her she has now announced it on all her socials um so i'm not not like oh whoops letting the cat out of the bag but yeah it was nice to speak to someone who's in that that stage in life where they're they just found out they're having their second baby and all excited and yeah it was a really lovely conversation jamie was down from her home in scotland to do some business meetings and came to see me at the house um so yeah i will We'll leave you with the both of us having our cups of tea in the warm, dry sitting room of my house while I navigate the rainy, cold streets of suburban San Francisco.

5:37Sophie Ellis-Bextor: But I'll see you on the other side and I will be dry by then. I can promise it.

5:51Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Thank you so much for coming over.

5:53Jamie Genevieve: We can officially.

5:54Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah. I was really looking forward to meeting you for so many reasons but not least because I think we share a big love of makeup actually so I just wanted to start by asking never mind the fact that it's your day job as well what does makeup mean to you? What do you love about it? I love the ritual of it.

6:14Jamie Genevieve: I love the routine of it. I actually think that I'm quite, I was going to say chaotic there I don't think I'm chaotic but having little bits of routine in my life I quite like, like anchors me maybe. And then I didn't get into makeup until I was a bit older actually. I wasn't playing with my mum's makeup stuff. I say that, there is a picture of me with red lipstick on when I'm a toddler and I was obviously loving it. But makeup for me, it really is all about the transformation. If I'm feeling a bit rotten or if I'm looking in the mirror and I'm like, aye, I'm looking shattered. And you know, you feel it in your bones as well.

6:47Jamie Genevieve: If I sit down and do my makeup, it's like I can completely pretend to myself and be like get a grip and get on with it kind of thing yeah so there's there's a really nice experimental side of it there's the kind of self-care element and then it's the um I don't know probably like preparation for the day I just love it I love it there's so many facets to it I

7:09Sophie Ellis-Bextor: think yeah I really get what you mean there I think of it a bit like punctuation as well and so it gives me like a gap between how I was before and the after so like a comma or a dash to take me from whatever mood I was in before. And I carry, I love the space of that. I love sitting in that grammar and being like, this is the transition point and just having a moment with myself for that. That's so poetic. That's beautiful. I love that so much. Well, it does mean a lot to me and I like it and I've always enjoyed that. And it is transformative. And it's also fun. It's really fun. Yeah.

7:46Jamie Genevieve: When you say you were a bit later when you were into it, what is later to you? So I really, really remember starting to do a proper smoky eye, like proper makeup when I was 14. And when I was 14, that's what I got for my birthday, was great makeup. And it was funny, I really skipped a few stages, I think. I went straight from not really... Did you?

8:05Sophie Ellis-Bextor: What stages are there before 14? Well, do you know what? It's a generational gap making its first appearance in our conversation.

8:12Jamie Genevieve: It's the product. I went straight to a counter with an artist and sat down. And I remember feeling really grown up. and sitting down with a proper artist and saying, I would like some makeup, please. I didn't do the, you know, the boots going round and the super drug. I went straight to benefit. And then even when I was working full time, I had a ton of jobs growing up. And when I was working full time, my first paycheck, I went straight to House of Fraser and bought lots of posh makeup. I've always liked that. So I think when I was 14, I really remember that. And I remember doing my makeup for like little parties that I was going to with school friends, but also work.

8:47Jamie Genevieve: Because I worked from when I was 14, so I would sit and do my makeup for work and I felt really grown up. Is this when you're working in the play centre?

8:57Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, the soft play. The soft play.

8:59Jamie Genevieve: I did a bit of makeup in the soft play but I really turned it up a notch when I worked for Comet Electricals on the checkout. And I really significantly remember doing my makeup and doing a really nice deep side parting and I had a big rosette flower. I honestly must have looked like some kind of Spanish dancer. I don't know what I was thinking but I remember I felt great I felt really great my dad would always you know I felt grown up but my dad would always drop me off at work and we had this big old Volkswagen camper van that he would drop me off at that he'd drop me off with that I used to get made fun of at school but when it was work because adults don't make fun of each other the same way I was like I like this world better I was like this is good for me so makeup in that sense on myself that's when it started but it's like burned into my brain in the nicest way watching my mum do hers and I just wanted to be a witness to that.

9:52Jamie Genevieve: I didn't want to take her bag. I like looking at it and you know the smell? I was going to say the smell of it as well. The bronzer beads and like the wood from the wooden pencils, that's properly burned into my brain in the best way. I love it. Yeah. And she just, my mum's the most beautiful woman and she had me pretty young as well so it's crazy for me to think back to what age she would have been when I was watching her but she would have been like 22, 23. so how old was she when she had you then late teens yeah 18 oh wow 18 so she was drunk but I just took she's my mom I always just thought she was so grown up and obviously she was she had to grow up pretty fast probably and it was my mom and dad so you know they're they're still together but I remember my dad would be driving my mom would be doing her makeup in the front of the car and I just remember thinking that those were adults and then looking back like think as as I am now I'm like that's not an adult that is actually pretty wild and also it's amazing like

10:44Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I mean, I was going to talk to you about your folks because they're clearly such big cheerleaders and supporters and absolutely surrounded you with so much the good stuff, love, but also positive morale and they just believe in you. They sound exactly like parents you're hoping to have, actually. Totally, and hoping to be as well. That's a great start.

11:06Jamie Genevieve: I look at that all the time and just how I was helped to feel about myself.

11:12Sophie Ellis-Bextor: It's a great start. And actually thinking about it now, if they had you when they were both young, it probably set the tone for their relationship that there was always, you know, they were a family unit from very early on. So it's always lovely when you hear those stories that that can be part of the foundation of how their relationship grew. You were part of it from the get go.

11:34Jamie Genevieve: I have made that joke before that we all grew up together. And my mum was like, yeah, pretty much, pretty much.

11:40Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, but that's not always a bad thing. I think that's, you know, as you know yourself with your little girl, however the cards fall with your family kind of feels like the only way it was ever going to be. That's the thing that's incredible about it, really. But suddenly the idea of the other just vanishes. That's where it comes at. I can't imagine it being different.

11:59Jamie Genevieve: Yeah, you're right.

12:00Sophie Ellis-Bextor: But I do want to talk to you a little bit more about, because when you said I got into makeup a bit later, you were pretty much the same age I was when I started discovering makeup. but I did miss, I didn't do the glamorous bit. I was the one scuttling into boots and not realizing that, for example, concealer comes in different shades. So whichever one I grabbed, I would then probably actively highlight wherever I was trying to cover up with a sort of orange concealer. But I think one of the biggest shifts in the world of beauty and makeup is that people who are interested in it, they are going straight to the good stuff.

12:35Sophie Ellis-Bextor: They know their stuff. they're well-researched and they're looking for things that speak to them that are maybe a little bit of what we would have thought of as more of a luxury, but it doesn't feel like it's looking for them now. It's in the right spot for them.

12:52Jamie Genevieve: Yeah, I think so. I think social media has to have a huge part to play in it, right? Absolutely. And actually, as we're talking, I just remembered that I did, I do remember at one point going into boots and taking a liquid eyeliner and putting it straight in my waterline and just temporarily blinding myself. I was going to say, that must have been a bit painful. Yeah, not great, not great. So I did have those moments, don't get me wrong, but I do think, you know, I get tagged in these pictures and I think maybe a lot of it is mums passing it down to their daughters. They're wanting their daughters to have the great stuff.

13:24Jamie Genevieve: So loads of little girls that have bounce bam, which is my lip bam that I made. Yeah. And that's like, it's really sweet and it's age appropriate and it's nice. I do think that younger girls as well or anyone that's wearing makeup are really good at it really early on. Yeah. I think that's nice because you can just teach yourself anything.

13:43Sophie Ellis-Bextor: It's so true, the level of finesse. I mean, I have a memory from my teenage years of catching myself about to see what it would look like if I did nail varnish on my eyes because I was like, it's a great colour.

13:54Jamie Genevieve: Can you imagine? In your podcast with Genevieve. Actually, no, again, yeah. I can understand why the intrusive thought would come into your mind, but I'm glad that you're restrained. Me too. I probably wouldn't have any eyelids right now. I'd be sat there with, like, prosthetic eyelids.

14:12Sophie Ellis-Bextor: But, so, you know, you talked about, I read about, there was a one week in particular when sort of the stars started to align with you getting your first job and meeting the man who became your husband. So how old were you then? Is this sort of, I was picturing you sort of 16, 17, but maybe...

14:30Jamie Genevieve: A wee bit later, but yeah, it was like late teens. and I actually, every time I talk about this I realise that I need to get my dates lined up because I always forget but I think I was like 18, 19 and applied and got into college which was quite a spontaneous thing to do it was quite impulsive but it felt really right and when something feels right to me and my intuition, my gut I'm like, well that's the right answer met Jack at a club in Glasgow but I just loved them which club can I ask you? it was ABC, it was great was it ABC or was it the garage? I don't really want to say the garage if it was the garage because that's embarrassing but it might have been the garage not nice and sleazies?

15:14Jamie Genevieve: oh nice and sleazies Glasgow is such a great city it's great, ABC I get sad about because it burned down but that was our old haunt, we used to love it there but it was either I think it might have been garage actually, but I actually first saw Jack with my eyes, with my eyeballs when I was 15 and I really did fall in love with him straight away, which was a nightmare, nightmare to everyone involved, nightmare to my parents, but nothing, I didn't speak to him again for years and then years later I saw him again and I was like, I still actually just love you so much.

15:47Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Wow. So what was the first time you saw him?

15:50Jamie Genevieve: You didn't, did you speak? No, he said, he remembers saying hello to me and I didn't say anything back to him. You too goody. Cartoon style. Yeah, a little bit, which is really embarrassing I did I did I just um it's it's funny it feels quite cosmic now looking back but we had we had tons of time apart and then and then it all kind of came together I think I got into college and then went on a trip to Paris and he was a kind of enough extended friend group we all ended up going away together and then the city of love just it was too much

16:18Sophie Ellis-Bextor: too much for us yeah wow well it's so romantic and also I think you know maybe again it's funny when we sort of end up repeating things, but you see your parents with this very strong relationship that's weathered lots of things, and then you find out you've actually replicated aspects of that. You can see it's very young to see someone and be like,

16:42Jamie Genevieve: that's the one, how nice is that?

16:44Sophie Ellis-Bextor: It's bloody young. And sweet for your daughter when she's old enough to hear those stories. Totally. That's very cute. Yeah, it is, it is. um so when you had all these sort of like stars aligning with the beauty school and the counter job and Jack later on will become obviously such an integral part what you're up to but for then did it feel like that feeling where all the lines joined and you thought oh I think I'm doing the thing I was always meant to do but hadn't really dawned on you until then makeup for sure yeah it It felt like, it just felt quite nuts to me.

17:21Jamie Genevieve: I loved it so much. Definitely had a natural flair for it. Always loved art. I think creative people are always like that, right? You kind of flow through the different kind of creative aspects of life and things you can study. I thought I wanted to go to art school. I thought I wanted to be a dressmaker at one point. And then, yeah, makeup I just kind of fell into, but I just loved it. And then when I love something, I find it so easy to just pour everything into it and it not feel like a chore or a job so you know starting social media for example that that was just at that perfect time it was the perfect time to do that because it was early on and it took you know it took effort it took work because I had to go home from whatever job I was working and then film the thing or do the makeup or take the photos and but I just loved it so much that I didn't see it as work.

18:13Jamie Genevieve: So I definitely find my flow state. Yeah, you could be very happily

18:17Sophie Ellis-Bextor: sort of single trap minded with it. I can picture that.

18:19Jamie Genevieve: Yeah.

18:20Sophie Ellis-Bextor: And then when you're finding the joy, the line between the work and the thoughts goes away because you're just thinking I'm really engaged and stimulated. Yeah. And then when I think you've got that momentum, it's such a happy bedfellow to making things happen, isn't it? You kind of think, right, I want the next bit and the next bit. But are you someone that's more of a, because when I speak to entrepreneurs and business founders there seems to be two camps of people some people who are really big planners so they'll have kind of like a five-year or strategize on that side and then people that are a bit more the more instinctive they kind of go with their tummy follow their nose a little bit more I'm definitely the second yeah I think I was already expecting

18:59Jamie Genevieve: that the planning thing I think I think I fancy myself um getting better with that because I do negotiable right to organize them and to make sure that their structure there um going from working by myself see if I just worked by myself like I was the only person on my team I would just intuitively flow through life the rest of my life I'd love that like I do love that the the the part about having a team for me was also that I had to add structure to my days so being expected to be in certain places at certain times that's something that was really new for me yeah or it you know it took me a while to get used to it again um but I do actually think for this season in my life it's really important and it's something that has set me up to be better in certain areas I'm like oh god structure and process actually does have a place but in me innately I'm an intuitive

19:55Sophie Ellis-Bextor: yeah so I guess when you became a mother you have to get that slightly more accountable to totally the choices you're making I guess it's to do with intention as well right because the time when you're not with your little one or when you're pursuing your work, which is obviously, you know, you would have had your little one.

20:13Jamie Genevieve: I mean, she's still only tiny now. She's not even three, right? Yeah, no, I feel like I've been sitting two and a half for a long time. But she'll be three in May.

20:22Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Which I think objectively is one of my favourite ages. It's the best. They're so much fun and quite mad in a really good way.

20:30Jamie Genevieve: Do you know what? I just can't believe that this kid who is like, I can't explain how much I love her, but she puts her wee hands at the side of my face and just tells me how much she loves me. My mum is actually, you know, my mum and dad and Jack's parents are amazing, but everyone's super involved. My mum said how outstandingly loving she is, but she's just very free with her emotions. She's a wild child and I love it. We just witnessed it and it's amazing. I never want her spirit to be crushed ever. I want her to keep that and then yeah it's just the best thing ever

21:06Sophie Ellis-Bextor: So what was happening in your life when you had her? What was going on? I guess your brand would have been about the age she's about to turn about three right?

21:15Jamie Genevieve: Do you know what? That's actually really nuts to think about because the brand being we turned five in November just there we launched in 2020 to think that Romy's been around for half of that is absolutely wild because that's so fast it's gone. But I've got, are you in at star signs at all?

21:35Sophie Ellis-Bextor: A little bit, yeah. It's a conversation I like having

21:38Jamie Genevieve: because I'm curious about it.

21:39Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I'm not very well informed.

21:42Jamie Genevieve: When I was listening to your podcast, I actually was really wondering if you were to cancer. Oh, no, I'm Aries. Are you? Oh, wow. Okay, my husband's an Aries. That's amazing. When's his birthday?

21:51Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Just out of interest.

21:52Jamie Genevieve: The 2nd of April. Cool.

21:54Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I'm the 10th, which is the 6th.

21:55Jamie Genevieve: Okay, quite close. Yeah.

21:56Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah. we're quite a Aries Taurus

21:59Jamie Genevieve: heavy house my daughter's Taurus which is funny because Aries and Taurus I think clash Jack and Romy wind each other up and Romy will say to me she's two and a half and she'll come up and say mummy daddy's winding me up it's so funny I can see like 15 years into our future and I'm like oh no oh no but I I'm a Cancer so I I'm such a definitely the nurture I love home and I love being at home and I love my family just more than anything and she Taurus are really like that too have you noticed that? Have you got quite a lot of Taurus in your boys?

22:41Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah so my first born and third are both in late April they're only two days apart actually their birthdays and also I've got one in February, one in November one in January wow I'm really good at knowing what's happening with the first three and then I start to get a bit worried and I can only honestly I can only imagine I don't know so what's that Aquarius for one of them and then I don't know is he Pisces the second one

23:07Jamie Genevieve: February can be Pisces yeah

23:08Sophie Ellis-Bextor: he's early oh no he might be Aquarius don't worry

23:12Jamie Genevieve: we'll talk about it we'll pull up the charts but that is something that I find really fascinating yeah so I enjoy looking at it and it's the first thing that I looked up when I found out I was pregnant with Romy and I'm waiting when do you think this podcast is going out?

23:33Sophie Ellis-Bextor: sometime between now and March because I run them a series of 10 and I do one every Friday, every Monday rather for the 10 and then have a month off.

23:43Jamie Genevieve: So not before Sunday? No, not before Sunday. Well I'm actually I'm expecting my second just now.

23:50Sophie Ellis-Bextor: That's so lovely! it's the best oh I've got tingles congratulations

23:54Jamie Genevieve: I'm expecting a Leo which is perfect for my Aries husband but I'm so excited and it's the it's well I miss you want to cry I'm so happy I'm in the just getting out the first trimester I'll be 13 weeks tomorrow congratulations thank you

24:12Sophie Ellis-Bextor: and you look very well on it thanks yeah I had to buy

24:16Jamie Genevieve: new jeans already I can't believe how fast I've expanded and see by the end of the day when i look in the mirror i'm like that i could honestly be 20 weeks pregnant yeah i think

24:25Sophie Ellis-Bextor: um when you've had your when it's not your first pregnancy you do fast track that that like the showing and everything wild i felt with my third i looked pregnant by about six or seven weeks actually so i think you can get quite quite quite fast but um that's actually the same age gap as well between mine i've got most of mine are three years apart which perfect i think it's quite an underrated age gap actually because um it means that ramey will be sort of settled in nursery school and all that where she probably already started now and she's got like her own world

24:57Jamie Genevieve: going on yeah before this new person turns up i think she's ready to be a big sister for sure she's she's um she loves teaching people things and she likes you know i'll show you mommy and if i try and do it no no no i'll show you okay so i think she can do that with a subliminal problem but it's so exciting and it's exactly what it's quite mad, it's exactly what I've always dreamed of so I'm just feeling very lucky and happy to be out of that period, that start period where no one really knows I'm telling my team tomorrow which is going to be great and then telling the broader scale at the weekend and then I feel like I'll be able to wear t-shirts again

25:42Sophie Ellis-Bextor: yeah and enjoy it and it's nice because you'll be able to that'll all happen as we start getting like towards spring and it's nice it's a nice time of year so how many i'm trying my chronology is

25:52Jamie Genevieve: terrible so leo is that august sorry yeah it's um early august early august nice so happy little summer baby nice oh well congratulations it seems like already an obvious question but do you always want to be a mother yeah yeah always and I think um what's what's quite strange is even just me and Jack we never really spoke about it too much it was just something we understood about each other that that time would come yeah I think if I remember correctly Jack was actually the first one of us to kind of raise it after we got married it was very traditional we're not very traditional people but we followed a pretty traditional route which was strange but he um it was Jack that kind mentioned like maybe we should maybe we should do that next um yeah really really always knew for sure i can't really imagine it not being the case if that makes sense i always saw it in my future and hoped for it i think um i think i had maybe quite a lot of anxieties around it though just

26:56Sophie Ellis-Bextor: with an awareness of what can happen and how hard it can be um and how it can change things but it's quite abstract before it happens because you don't know what's going to accompany your pregnancy your new baby and particularly you know if you're someone that has is building up so much and you're in such a fruitful time of your life uh in your 20s it can be this big unknown of you know how is it going to affect all these things that up until now have taken up so much of my heart and

27:24Jamie Genevieve: my mind it's a big shift isn't it yeah totally um and I think just I just feel so grateful that this the the process has been you know smooth sailing for us um yeah and if you're sort of so

27:41Sophie Ellis-Bextor: rooted in your you know the the tone of your own ambition I think that can be a worry as well like how am I going to feel to step back into something that's so reliant on my energy pushing the boulder forward am I going to feel like that anymore is it am I going to be able to tap back into that part

27:58Jamie Genevieve: of myself yeah I think when it comes to work in motherhood it's I remember thinking exactly that you know you hear about people going on mat leave and then just never going back they're like no I'm actually quite happy this is you know they've kind of found found what I really want to do I really love I love being a mum and I love my family I really love working and I really love my work and I think that maybe it's being surrounded by women that I really respect and women that work also and you know listening to the podcasts like this like exactly like yours and it's people talking about the balance and actually understanding that that balance is just I think the word balance is so interesting isn't it it's a bit of um it doesn't it doesn't really exist in a perfect way no but accepting that it's almost like you're just like taking your hands the grip like that crazy grip you've got and just kind of like letting it go yeah and then it's like quiet and peace and you're like all right okay that's that for that's from for me how i felt so when i'm with romey i'm really good at putting my phone down and you know like anything that happens i will get back to you know when it needs um and then when i'm like you know i'm down here for a night i'll get home late tomorrow night which means i'll see romey the following day so I won't see her for like the two days.

29:16Jamie Genevieve: I'll just know that she's having the best time at home. I'm really lucky. I've got the best support system, village, you know, whatever you want to call it. I don't know what I would maybe do without that.

29:29Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah.

29:30Jamie Genevieve: And I know that not everyone has that. And it's something that, you know, again, I feel really, really grateful for all the time. But knowing that Romy is happy and enjoying herself means that I can just throw myself into my work and really enjoy that side of myself as well, which I like.

29:45Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, no, definitely. I think it's important. And I think it's interesting because it's been a little while, actually, since I've spoken to someone who's in sort of relatively like the earlier chapters of motherhood, actually. Quite a lot of my conversations recently have been people maybe a bit more like similar to where I'm at in life, where that early years is sort of, you know, you're moving on from that, your kids are growing up and it's still just as big, a bigger thing, but it just changes. It's like a slightly different season, I guess. but I think that early bit for me was so much about um I don't know if you're right to the balance is it's actually in a way it's a bit of a misleading question because it makes you think there's an equation that's going to work which really so much of it is just about um perspective and framing because if you do have something you care about that's your work that's also something you've put so much yourself in you want to be able to pursue that and be ambitious for yourself and keep that bit of you that prioritized that and was a little bit selfish about where it stood in your life but also not worry or feel too bad about all the guilt that can associate it and even just the subtle nuances of language sometimes when people talk to you about work oh who's who's with your little one tonight then or oh is it hard to be away and I think it's I think it's actually honestly probably taken well over a decade of the first bit of motherhood for me to start and finding like that to soothe a lot of that actually i think it's the biggest hurdle in a lot of ways i know it's not the same for everybody some people just know that's didn't really they never felt the guilt in that way yeah yeah but i mean your team so is it primarily women that you

31:24Jamie Genevieve: work with and lots of different generations as well or yes um do you know what i was thinking about this the other day as far as the team goes and how many of us have children uh not not a huge amount yet quite a lot of the team's quite young um but my partners in business are both family women you know and have three kids two kids uh you know Emma my CEO has three grown-up children um Emily sitting next to me has has two sons who are um they're just children aren't they they're not toddlers anymore um so there's an understanding also actually like even when it comes to the business and our investors and things we just went through our series b um right at right before correct like the week before christmas which was absolutely nuts and it was during the time that no one knew i was pregnant so i remember sitting on a train on the way home from aberdeen after doing a meeting great with loads of customers that day at our counter and you know we signed this deal and I cried my eyes out which I think I would have done that anyway but maybe the hormones didn't help but I was just sobbing on this train didn't realize that there was a guy sitting behind me so I hope that he didn't get a fright and think I was I don't know having a really bad time I was having a great time I was like it's really good it's really good but even our investors understand family and I think that at this day and age everyone understands family I think that what maybe it's on entrepreneurs maybe it's being self-employed maybe it's I don't know being just a woman in this day and age but you can have kids and work and I think that that trust you know trusting that especially if it's something that you've built yourself especially if it's something that you love and that you've poured you know a lot of yourself into the trust that that will not just fade away yeah super important

33:19Sophie Ellis-Bextor: yeah no I agree and I think you're right the conversation For me, I had similar things. It's almost like mentors that come along where you can have that intimate chat of going, I'm actually feeling a bit stressed about that. And just those casual conversations can put to bed so many of the worries. Can we take a minute for your brand just to sing its praises? Can you show off to me about how much you've achieved, please? Because I'm sure you've got some very impressive statistics. But honestly, what a success. And to people listening, I can in no means underplay. how hard it is actually to establish a new brand in an already thriving world the beauty industry is massive yeah and i know from so many conversations with um people you know makeup artists just the idea of taking it on and thinking i think i can find something for myself it's it's massive so to walk into i don't know space nk and see your brand you can't underestimate how huge that is so congratulations it's no honestly it's so it is a really impressive thing but come on tell me some stuff about how well it's doing because I know it's so lovely to hear

34:27Jamie Genevieve: it firsthand it's just nice like and I think what I really love and maybe it took me a little while to grow to love my story because there's always um you know a little bit of that imposter syndrome that's really hard to go through life without any of that I know I don't know what that would be like um but I come from counter so I'm a makeup counter girl and that to me um I loved those years so much and I remember really specifically you know I remember a day standing on counter thinking I could do this for the rest of my life I'm having the best time I had you know a bit of a following on social media so people would come and see me in the counter they all knew me really well because they'd seen me on social media and I was just myself on social media and then because of that I was making my targets all the time so I was like you know doing really well at work so the work were happy with me um which I do think you know that's something that I always strived for I really wanted to try hard work hard and and be like be of value um but my customers were the best and I had the bread the customer I had was so nice it was like all the way from you know really young girls to you know teenage boys to really like old grannies that I just loved so much that they would come and see me you know every weekend and I just remember loving it so much and everyone has their own stories and they're like everyone has such a story and maybe that's a Scottish thing because we all ask each other for each other's stories and it is so fun and it makes a day go by so fast when you're getting to sit down and actually you know learn about the person sitting in front of you who you're touching their face you know it's an intimate thing yeah so all of that I just loved it totally thrived there's them there's loads of like fun quizzes you can take about your um you know your life number and all these things I like see when I've got free time I'll sit and I'll do these quizzes I love it yeah but I remember doing one and it told me that my you know my natural habitat is the marketplace and it made me laugh because you know makeup counters it's just like if you imagine them all as stalls down the street it's the same thing yeah I used to make jewelry when I was really young and sell it at car boot sales I thought I was a genius you know and you know I remember as well my mum would sit and help me do it and she was so proud of me and and then eBay I would sell my you know sell all my stuff when I was far too young to be using eBay.

36:36Jamie Genevieve: So I'm definitely, I've got that in me for sure. But what I think that I'm a deeply honest person. So when I worked on Counter, you know, I would be working for one brand and if I had to sell a certain product that I didn't like, I would have to say to my manager, I can't do it. Like, I really don't like this, but I do love this. So can I sell this one instead? So you had all that integrity right from the get go. And I was young and I just remember it because it made me, it sat so uncomfortably with me. you know the intuition where we're talking about you get the opposite of that and it's like this I always call it stickiness it's like you start feeling sticky and you're like I actually can't actually it's not making me feel good so all of that and all those conversations with customers and then moving online um at that really pivotal time while putting a lot of effort into it I just ended up with this mad dream job of being able to talk to millions of people about makeup products and beauty products but also sharing my life because I love the different facets of people and I love that you know you could see someone that uh you would maybe never talk to but you see that they're reading the same book as you and you're like oh my god we've got that in common that's so nice so I deeply a people person have always been obsessed with product and formula had I think a natural skill at makeup which I mean I don't even that to me is almost like a it too close to sounding egotistical but I am I just totally thrived everything about it all these little pockets yeah um and I love talking with people and communicating with people I find that really easy so I just I felt like I knew all the these little secret things uh or all these little little different things that would make a really great brand and it was a brand that felt that that warmth that makeup counter warmth but with that pro product and formula and that you know the idea of me as a founder made me feel quite shy but actually now I feel really proud because see if someone can see me and see more of themselves in me than maybe they would see otherwise that makes me feel really proud as well I mentioned it before it's hilarious the papers love it but you know I grew up in a council flat that's the first thing that they'll write about because it's that story of being a council flat to this what they always forget to write was I grew up you know I lived in a council flat when I when I was born mum and dad worked so hard and they put in so much effort because they could see us moving towards a different style of life and it was that that taught me that I could do this yeah I was going to ask you about their work ethic actually because obviously that's something again that you know you'd be seeing especially as

39:09Sophie Ellis-Bextor: an only child because you're sort of first-hand experiencing it you know you'll be probably taken I was on my own with my parents a lot when I was a kid and so I could I was often the one sat with you know the other adults yeah um and carted around and and you i think you do witness more that way yeah than if you maybe you're part of a big group of kids where it's like well you guys are going to be looked after there because taking all of you is a bit much yeah yeah totally so they

39:30Jamie Genevieve: they what did what line of work are your parents do you know what it's like quite different my mom and dad are really private people i don't really talk about them too much but um what what i did see and it's funny i can see i can see where i get certain traits from my dad is gift of the gab big time he um he's my dad he's really smart I joked to him the other day I was like see if you die one day I wouldn't be surprised if you're like some secret philosopher like that's what you get we have really kind of deep conversations like that which I've always enjoyed since I was young because it made me feel clever it made me feel smart having these really quite highbrow conversations with my dad who um you know he's just got he's just a deep thinker I think yeah but also he

40:12Sophie Ellis-Bextor: wanted to have those conversations with you which I think when you're a little one makes you feel

40:16Jamie Genevieve: really seen actually every you know every night you get home from work and ask if I wanted to come on a dog walk and that's when we would talk oh perfect oh that's you that's the classic thing

40:24Sophie Ellis-Bextor: of you know you're not making a direct eye contact as well so you could talk to him about anything it's like being in a car right yeah yeah exactly um but I just love I like I think about that all the time um and then my mum taught me that you can literally do anything if you if you work hard if you try hard and she you know that neither of them you know own businesses or anything like that

40:45Jamie Genevieve: um like I said they had me really young as well so I actually remember seeing their growth um like as people yeah but my you know we ended up in a in a house when I was 11 that was a renovation and it was getting renovated from when we lived in that house to when I moved out to go out and be on on my own in Glasgow which is when I was 18 19 again it was all kind of that time but um you know we didn't have the we didn't have the money for a renovation so my mum taught herself like I remember getting home it's the most amazing thing I remember getting home from school and my mum who I'm sure she won't mind do you know what I actually think they will really

41:20Sophie Ellis-Bextor: it won't spoil her privacy if I know she can build a shelf no do you know what I just think

41:24Jamie Genevieve: that they'll definitely listen to this one because they're huge fans of you as well but I remember getting home from school and seeing my mum going around the perimeter of the house chipping off the rough cast in the house and repointing it and she'd been she'd been next level she built walls she is she can do anything i'm not a diy at all but she can literally do anything she can super resourceful so resourceful and um out of necessity but also she loved it which is great because then there's no resentment to what you're doing right yeah but she um you know she she'd been out all summer doing this so she had the best tan ever and because she'd been working so hard she had these like who's it say corner arms yeah like i was like my mom actually looks like a rock star she's so cool um she was just yeah just amazing so i uh and they they definitely you know going through a renovation when you're a teenager i think is really character building i remember jumping over the beams of the floor to get to school and being a cranky teenager and being like that this fucking nightmare i just want to live in a normal house but actually you know we live in a renovation now we've not started it yet I'm dreading it to be honest yeah um and now there's a bit of a timer on what we want to get done first exactly we can leave um but I'm really comfortable living in a situation that's not finished yeah yeah a work in progress but they are they're they're amazing people and not in not in the way that you know I grew up watching my mom and dad have these big businesses big business people but just as people you know the most incredible better than most I'd say I can hear it

43:01Sophie Ellis-Bextor: for sure also I was thinking about you in the department store and the sort of Halcyon period of that and it's true the thing of firstly the stories what is the big department store in Glasgow that I would have gone into when I bought my raincoat when I was last there do you know probably the really old fashioned one on the Cobbled the main drag it had to be House of Fraser

43:24Jamie Genevieve: yeah it must have been down that way Debenhams is where

43:25Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I worked which is all obviously shut down now and I just realized that you asked me to talk about Veve and

43:30Jamie Genevieve: I'll literally just no no don't worry I've got all my my map but um I was thinking when I went

43:37Sophie Ellis-Bextor: in there because I had this time when the last time I was in Glasgow I hadn't bought the right um kite with me so I was like right I'm gonna go in and I'm I had such a lovely afternoon in this department store everybody just wanted to talk so I had all these lovely conversations and I think it's interesting the idea of you on the counter because you're basically getting this survey and insight into people's relationship with makeup what they feel confident in what they're looking for what's working on a range of different faces so you're kind of building up your database of what would eventually become your brand but also when you talked about imposter syndrome in in in business i think there's a trump card that can come when it's not about the business acumen which you can find support you can find people the right bit right time to give you support because once you take away the product building up um something commercially is kind of similar things for different styles of product but what you can't have a conversation with a pickup is how it feels to be a fan of it how it feels to be the one using it so i think if you're someone that is you you know what it feels like to walk into that shop and get that excitement of like oh new things to try oh they've done this product that's clever oh I definitely want to try that oh that applicator that's the stuff that someone in a business meeting yeah you're right they're not going to touch the sides of that no but you'd obviously been building it up but then there's another bit of your story which I think is unusual because I've worked with loads of makeup artists and a lot of them fantasize about having their own brand but what is quite unusual is that

45:12Jamie Genevieve: they also are their own um subject not everybody puts themselves in the makeup chair so you're

45:19Sophie Ellis-Bextor: kind of almost like doing the two things at once which actually now we're a bit more familiar with but I think when you started that was actually still quite a new thing to be the the recipient of your artistry we're used to it now but used to no for sure you're not at all so it's it's interesting because I think that for the uninitiated in that world it might come in at a different angle of you know this sort of wall of what social media has become but actually the kind of I would say missing the point of how nuanced when people engage with those YouTube channels it is it's like when you know in the 90s when you would know what TV programs to watch at what time exactly the same thing you're mainlining something you're interested in you can get all the information all the masterclass the intimacy but it's the 24 7 so you can kind of build that relationship quick yeah but I think with that in mind when you're building your brand how integral is it that you're front of house and did you always want to be front of house because that's that is a slightly

46:20Jamie Genevieve: different hat I think yeah I think so too um I remember coming up with a name for Veve I actually found really hard which is so daft because it's the second part of my middle name like it was That's not tough.

46:30Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, but sometimes it takes a minute for something to click. Yeah. And there's loads of places you could have taken it.

46:35Jamie Genevieve: Yeah, true. Do you remember some of your other frontrunners or they never made even the light of day? There was no others. There was no others, honestly. And actually, a lot of the work was done before the name even came. You know, I'd been working on it for quite a while. So what I really like about the name Veve is that people that know me will know it's mine, but people that don't know me, it doesn't matter. Because Veve itself, it's a lovely word. and it's I remember when I saw it written down I was like five letters starts with V reminds me of Vogue a little bit really think I like this

47:04Sophie Ellis-Bextor: it's a nice word isn't it I think I always like to think like that as well yeah it has to look written down that's the first thing I did was write it down

47:12Jamie Genevieve: yeah it makes sense and also there's a really lovely saying in French joie de vivre which means it's spelled slightly different which is a wee play I'm just hearing it yeah but which means joy of life and I was like well I really like this I really like this so the reason like you know I love the idea of people not knowing it's mine I love the idea of people that find Veve and then find me and then have someone to associate with the brand that is a bit of an educator or a bit of a you know a North Star if you've got any problems you know you can go and find videos or whatever from me I think it's obviously really important that I was in the brand and it's actually it's where I wanted to be too but the way that we did it was I do think quite clever because I was never a model in the campaigns I have been more recently because things like complexion a lot of people that have known me for a long time know that they wear the same shade as me so it would be silly for me not to be a shade in the complexion lineup um the first like a lot for a long time all the campaigns I did all the makeup and I was seen to be doing the makeup but I was never in the images um and it's because that's just not what I wanted to I didn't want it to be a vanity project.

48:24Jamie Genevieve: I can see that

48:24Sophie Ellis-Bextor: because that's the message it would send out immediately if you're not putting yourself right and center in that regard is that I'm happy for this to be its own beast. And actually also thinking it over for people when their name becomes the brand name, sometimes you can experience a loss of ownership of your own self in that way. And once that's out there, that's kind of, I mean, you hear lots of stories when a business gets big. So I think there's a, there's a nice and I say this is a huge compliment and I sort of quite ambition to that as well because it means if the time's right you you you won't you've kept yourself yeah which is actually pretty genius yeah and a lot of other people out there might be like wish I thought because it

49:06Jamie Genevieve: must be weird mustn't it if you business have you been having talked your your name talked about in third person especially if there's loads of other people involved I think you know if it's you if see if it's a totally but I mean no one really does anything by themselves now I wouldn't wish for myself either but when you know the business um you know it does it feels like the business it's another entity there's so there's so much where me and the business crossover and where but but it can live by itself and i think that's really important and then it also means you know like you know i i was gonna say i suppose i live by myself as well i'm definitely deep rooted in it because i love it so much of course um but i think yeah everything you've said i think i think

49:45Sophie Ellis-Bextor: it's really important yeah but it also allows it the ability to morph you can you can follow your

49:49Jamie Genevieve: eyes with it I want it to be bigger than me you know I'm happy I would be really happy if we was just everyone was talking about that not me I'd be fine I'm actually quite when I think about it and I think about other founders of beauty businesses and the way that that is I actually am so happy being the makeup counter girl and if we can capture that and put it on socials and that's what we can do then great but when it comes to being the face or a celebrity behind the brand it's just it doesn't feel um completely in my bones but at the same time it is because it's social media and I'm really comfortable on social media which is kind of like that's a bit juxtaposed

50:27Sophie Ellis-Bextor: isn't it yeah but then you can own that whatever that looks like to you on that day you can be in that space without any pressure on you to take that on when you don't feel like it yeah which I think is actually really cool it's given you all the all the chance to be exactly how you want to be in that moment yeah but when you were building the brand how could you how could you know where the gap was in the market and you must no one must know what was out there better than you

50:50Jamie Genevieve: I think do you know actually I do remember the first collection we did was really selfish because I just had again that intuition but I just really wanted to make this stuff and it was like because I felt like I've not seen it I really want it I know that loads of my like so many of my audience feel the same because they are so similar to me and what they like and what they dislike so it was a selfish collection for me and my audience really it wasn't thinking about the audience outside of you know who I was already talking to um and it was amazing and you know it made no sense you know see if we had a lot of people in the room that are data analysts or whatever 10 of our SKUs were lip products and it was COVID everyone was wearing masks so you know it was maybe raised as a question a couple of times and I was like oh it's fine I was like don't don't think about it too much but the products flew because it's not about you know being able to walk about you know out proudly with your lipstick it was for it was for ourselves I didn't make up so much during Covid I mean because it's my job sure but I was doing it on lives all the time and people would do it along with me and it was just great yeah um and then as the team grew and we you know we had proper processes put in place um it was definitely you know there's a there's a combination of the intuition for sure and we are an emotionally led brand um because i am an emotionally led person but i am you know we have ideas for products we look at the the calendar and our strategy and where the gaps are and what's trending in market and what would be best suited so it's it's a really it's quite sophisticated now it's quite a sophisticated combination of all these things that set us up best for success I think yeah but when it comes to there's certain things like I'll get samples through uh from briefs that we've we've put out to labs and I can touch it once and be like that oh no it's not right or touch it once and be like that we can work with this and it's a really strange thing that I can just I just feel like I know um I really love days like that sitting with my MPD team because they always end up just you know putting it on their faces yeah and it's really

52:54Sophie Ellis-Bextor: fun really really fun and how how quick is the processor if you has an idea for something and then you sort of going through the formula process and then it being the product what's the sort of timeline for that kind of thing it's not it's quite it's quite long right and it so depends on how many

53:08Jamie Genevieve: like iterations there's certain i mean there's a product that we've got already sunset blush bam which actually i think you've tried right yeah i really like it it's already packed to come with

53:17Sophie Ellis-Bextor: oh my god i'm good yeah it's a really um lovely consistency and i like the way you can build the color it's easy isn't it and for the longest time i don't really like using powder blushes but i'll put on maybe like the lipstick i've got on but that doesn't always blend that well so it's a nice you get a nice more dewy yeah but it can be a bit it doesn't always stick in the same place but i really like what you've done i'm glad so yeah i was thinking that's already like i'm like oh a new

53:42Jamie Genevieve: staple so so that product for example that's finished and we are doing a shade extension it took us nine submissions to get the shade right so that takes time you know especially if we're not going to italy which we don't always go to italy um more often than not that we don't go um it can take weeks between why is that weather if we go to italy to the labs to see if we're sitting in the lab we could quite a lot of our labs are so there's can you choose which country you go to because i would choose italy as well yeah yeah i know right um i i actually yeah i got we were talking about going to makeup in paris which is a big convention but the timing i was like that oh they don't know but i'm gonna be pretty pregnant i don't think i can go um but it's great we've been to Italy a few times to the labs there in Italy and and we've got South Korea we've got Japan we've not been to South Korea or Japan yet but I'd love to one day um but if we were in the lab we could go back and forth and get it done really fast so we do do that and the team go actually to do to get you know projects done and within the deadline times yeah um but if we're not in a rush and it's just back and forth it can take you know a week and a half between samples

54:51Sophie Ellis-Bextor: so when it's nine you know that's tons of time yeah um and then sometimes projects are just super

54:56Jamie Genevieve: simple randomly you know you brief the lab they get it really right straight away we put our actives in we do our testing we do you know if it if it comes to complexion we'll make sure that it's absolutely right things can things can it really is so variable but things can be either

55:12Sophie Ellis-Bextor: easy or awfully awful i guess every it's such a learning curve as well and as you expand it and experiment with things and have new ideas do you have like like a specific person in mind who the

55:24Jamie Genevieve: customer is or is it yeah we do we do and and I do but when you go and we've got a permanent Glasgow store now which is so exciting because that is like the biggest full circle moment to me um our customer is so different they're all so different but what I think connects them all is the way that they want to feel and the way that they want to feel in themselves and um there is something there's something magic in these products that when you sit down and you have that time or even that customer has that time with themselves um and they're putting these products on that globe that I mentioned that I saw my mum have when she sat down and did her makeup I I that's exactly what happens when someone's using our stuff especially when when they're in the store and they're getting it applied for them and they're getting a bit of a lesson on how to do it and if you know they're not super confident there's there's a lot of people that don't know how to do their makeup and they're you know in their 40s 50s no one's ever really taught them um i think that some some of those customers have a bit of an embarrassment around that because they feel like they should know and what makes me really proud is that they come to us to sit down and learn so our customer you know sometimes i think is does our customer just look like me is it you know women of my age and then i think no it's not at all because it's like who I was when I was a teenager and also who I'll be when I'm 60.

56:46Jamie Genevieve: And I think it's more of, maybe more of an attitude and I suppose a bit of a zest for life. And if you don't have it yet, you can have it.

56:56Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah.

56:57Jamie Genevieve: There was a really lovely, we did these panel groups, this, what is it called? Focus groups. Oh, yeah. So I was behind a mirror listening to these people.

57:05Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I've actually done the other side of that. I used to do the market research thing. Yeah, because when I was a teenager, it paid quite well.

57:10Jamie Genevieve: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. so as long as I had to lie about my age I did a few like alcohol ones yeah

57:17Sophie Ellis-Bextor: but you know it's a really easy way to come out of like with like 30 quid yeah it's great yeah I

57:21Jamie Genevieve: mean we paid 80 for hours or I think it was more than that um but there was some there was a couple of comments that some of our customers made that really have have to have really carried with me since and it was um because they know me and they feel like they do know me which they do and so in so many ways and they can see that I'm a normal person but I'm not I'm quite unapologetic with what I want to wear or how I want to show up and that that doesn't mean always looking great it means sometimes mean looking actually not great but being so fine about it um they said they said something I'm not going to be able to um say it word for word because I can't remember but it was something about being able to feel cool like I feel like I can you know that there's a space for me maybe it's like that it's like a space at the table almost like yeah I can I can use these products and I can be a part of this brand um and feel actually really cool and I've not really felt cool before and I thought that was really lovely yeah and actually also maybe an adjective that

58:21Sophie Ellis-Bextor: doesn't always get used that much actually in that world but being cool is actually great feeling

58:27Jamie Genevieve: cool is great right it's like there's like there's a quiet confidence about that that's not super it doesn't need to be super loud and it actually maybe it's like empowering it's really empowered to feel cool because you actually I think it's like that age-old thing you're not cool if you say you're cool yeah exactly but my hairdresser or jack he's hilarious he always says this to me he's like I mean I would never say we're cool but we are actually really cool aren't we so I think I quite love that people can have that little it's almost like a little secret to

58:57Sophie Ellis-Bextor: yourself like you actually feel great also just your idea of what cool is changes as well in a nice way and then you could become I think it's like that proper acceptance of yourself isn't it totally um and with and with going back to when you had Romy all the worries you had about your relationship with work were any of them grounded can you remember how it felt when you first did

59:19Jamie Genevieve: your first tutorial or do you know I'll be really honest I never had any worries about my relationship with work but I think other people did um but kind of you know a little bit in my periphery there was I think a nervousness um which was I think unwarranted I can just say it's unwarranted I really I went back and I don't know whether there's a I don't know it's not a stubbornness but I just knew it would be great the same way that this time I know it's going to be great and I think that I've I've put you know there's a lot of work going into our structure and routines to make sure that I can do the work that I need to do and it's it's amazing because a lot of my work I can do remotely which means that I can do it during nap times and I can do it you know there's ways of working that I'm really really proud of but I am I remember I had eight weeks for my mat leave but my husband had it too because we work together I know I've not talked about Jack too much but we've worked together for a long time and he's a photographer videographer that does his own thing but also works within Vive and also helps me a lot with my own stuff but we both had eight weeks totally together with Romy when she was born and it was the best eight weeks of my life it was so so good I would just lie in my bed and Jack would feed me and I would feed this little baby and she was the super easy baby again see when it comes to luck and the gratitude I have, she was just this perfect thing, I remember being visited from the guys at work and she just slept in my arms the entire time and they were like, she's very relaxed she really is, she really is so those 8 weeks were amazing and it really set us up for success because the you know the modern modern world um when it comes to dads and and how they parent you know they're not babysitters anymore especially especially if you're you know if you've got a husband that actually wants to be a dad

1:01:15Sophie Ellis-Bextor: it's great so that's um yeah and also you guys are a team with it too you're supporting each other and um that's actually a bit of a parallel because i work with my husband as well i think it's actually really nice if you can share these things it's we're not doing the same jobs we're complimenting each other but it just means that yeah we sort of tessellate quite well with all of that and it's I think it's it's actually been probably part of the reason why I've I've worked at the at the level I have in terms of like keeping coming because it's not the same as if I have to leave everybody every time or turn my attention away it's kind of melded into what the fabric of what our lives is that's the same for your kids too that's really really nice I

1:01:54Jamie Genevieve: I love it. Whenever I hear as well about, you know, partners working together, I always, I think it's lovely. And I know that it wouldn't work for a lot of people.

1:02:04Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, no, fair enough. I mean, whatever works.

1:02:05Jamie Genevieve: I remember Covid, it was like the first time a lot of people were spending actual time together. And they were like, I actually hate you. I've changed my mind. So when Covid hit, me and Jack, we spent so much time together anyway. It was, you know, we were locked in the house. I was like, perfect. This is great. um yeah no essence is all but tiny parts of it were great but i think i think you know the way that we've got it sussed out is is really lucky yeah i feel lucky all the time definitely yeah

1:02:37Sophie Ellis-Bextor: me too and i think it allows you um you know it means that when you're daydreaming about your work or you know you you can you can shift from that into what's happening with your domestic life without feeling like you have to say oh sorry i was thinking about something that's not part of here that's not quite as compartmentalised in that way and I think that's probably allowed for more, like the thoughts can come and go a bit more freely, which is a nice thing. It also means sometimes the flip of it is it's harder to boundary, but I get the impression you're quite good at that. If you say you've got to put your phone down.

1:03:08Jamie Genevieve: I think there's some areas in my life that I am for sure and other areas that could do some work, but it's funny, you're so right about the blur because sometimes I joke, I ask Jack at the end of the day, how was your day? And he's like, you know how my day was. and I'm like

1:03:21Sophie Ellis-Bextor: just tell me about it anyway I edited your social content I sat across from you all day

1:03:26Jamie Genevieve: I was just checking you've done it

1:03:31Jamie Genevieve: that's great thank you

1:03:34Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I was thinking actually I don't know if this would resonate with you but when you've been talking about the privacy around your parents and the brand name I wonder if like you strike me as someone that maybe you might not have had this big big master plan but you've sort of sown seeds that have actually built in uh the ability to to follow your nose without actually losing too much of things that really would have

1:04:00Jamie Genevieve: been very hard to put back in the box and i don't know if you've had even if it's not knowing that

1:04:05Sophie Ellis-Bextor: they would end up in a success it sort of protects you from something because if you'd shared everything about your i don't know your parents or something and then you get to the end of your you know you're doing your socials and you're thinking oh that video didn't really click in the way and then it's out there isn't it and you feel like you've kind of given something away yeah what price in a way totally I feel I feel pleased about that quite a lot of just exactly what you said I think that um I think that it was maybe just quite embedded in me that I know what

1:04:39Jamie Genevieve: I am at like liberty to talk about and when it comes to me I'm quite an open book and like I I mean, there's videos on my YouTube channel that span for like 10 years. And honestly, who knows what I've said. Who knows? But I used to be less filtered, but only when it comes to myself. So even my daughter, you know, I don't share her face on social media. There might be a wee glimpse of the side because it's really hard because she's the best. And what I actually do, I get, like I want to share her. And that's, you know, people have their own choices and that's fine. But there's something about it that I just intuitively, I need to get that word tattooed in my head but I just know that that's what I kind of want to do

1:05:19Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I absolutely get that, I can see that completely, it's just a trust exercise with yourself isn't it

1:05:26Jamie Genevieve: with my parents as well, I think again it was as much my choice as theirs they are super proud but they are like which again I think it's a great thing, I think it's a good thing to have those boundaries as well

1:05:38Sophie Ellis-Bextor: back to your parents again, I wonder as well if part of also what's been an additional kind of unexpected you know bonus with um your family dynamic is that because they're young we're young parents their take on your engagement with like the world of youtube and social media at large wouldn't have been they would have understood it because they're basically like not that much younger than your mum they come about four years younger than her not very much no they they um i'm trying to think if they they totally got it which i think they did

1:06:13Jamie Genevieve: but there was absolutely when it comes to judgment or their own biases they they weren't there yeah it was very um and you know we all go through different seasons of life i've definitely gone through my own seasons in life already yeah very visibly um and they've just been a support the whole time with no judgment which i think is just such a nice thing it's it's beautiful well it's

1:06:34Sophie Ellis-Bextor: kind of what when everything else falls away that's what it comes down to isn't it your family and and and it sounds really wholesome and positive to have a lot around you um i did want to ask you one last thing about something you introduced me to i hadn't heard of before and i hope i'm saying right but is it called ikigai do you know the way i knew you were going to say that and that was so weird yeah ikigai um well it's but it really made sense to me but i hadn't actually come across it before and i know you know it's like a there's books on it they're like yeah best sell it so i'm Maybe a bit late to the party, but it's essentially sort of the Venn diagram of where everything crosses being the right thing for you to be following.

1:07:10Sophie Ellis-Bextor: But you could maybe talk about it.

1:07:12Jamie Genevieve: I don't know, actually, I wish I was better at this, but yeah, you're right. It's a diagram and it kind of crosses over what you, I'm going to get it wrong, but maybe it's what you can do professionally, what you can do that makes you money, what you do that you love and what do you do that brings value to the world or community. I think that's right. yeah no that sounds right yeah but um it's such a lovely exercise to do anyway because you can kind of see it's it kind of shows you where your values are yeah and if there are things that you love and that you're good at that cross over with how you can make money then brilliant that's kind of what happened with me and makeup I think yeah but another thing that I am really passionate about is honestly talking about things like this and like I love my journal and my writing so I can talk about a little bit of that that's how I kind of figure out what I want to be doing with my life at any given time if I've got free time that I want to be thinking about you know my like social media and what do I actually want to do what would bring value

1:08:12Sophie Ellis-Bextor: so you'll do you actually have is it pen and paper like Joshie you've done

1:08:16Jamie Genevieve: and I do I do list on my phone but you've got really nice handwriting do you know I don't at all beautiful handwriting thanks so much no it's meant it's absolutely nice I've got awful handwriting writing. I wish I did have nice penmanship. But I do, I love writing and putting pen to paper is it unlocks a different part of your brain. It really does. And I carry this big silly notebook around with me. It's really heavy but I love it. Even though it gives me a bad back. But I can't recommend it enough and the Ikigai, the book is really short and it's a lovely read and it talks a little bit as well about, you know, there's a village in Japan where the life expectancy is something nuts like 110.

1:08:58Jamie Genevieve: but it's because they all find their ikigai even after you know retirement you know a lot of the time people will retire and then they'll get quite sedentary they won't really do much but this village in japan you know they've all got gardens and community centers and it's just how i think we were all meant to live with community around us yeah i think honestly that's a big part of why i still live in scotland because i've got i've got brilliant friends that we have a book club that we you know we actually read the book and go every month and usually it's wine club not for me anymore for a while which is fine but it to see just having that date with my friends

1:09:33Sophie Ellis-Bextor: yeah so important yeah that dropping anchor again isn't it yeah because actually I think there's quite a lot of how you think about things that I think are my values as well I even heard you talk about um the importance of science being a bit delusional in in what you do and I think if you work in a creative world it's it's that that thing of like building the bridge to somewhere else even if it's like a bit fanciful but um it it's it keeps you on the positive side of things and keeps you quite optimistic yeah and i've definitely got quite a lot of that as well i think it's

1:10:05Jamie Genevieve: brilliant i think seeing seeing there being no other way for yourself than this amazing thing that you're going to have yeah it does it tricks it tricks the energy around you and yourself into believing you're just going to have it and then you'll end up with it it's not there's a few there's a few experiences in my life that are kind of proof of that if I'm honest yeah there's an amazing

1:10:24Sophie Ellis-Bextor: thing that do you do much writing uh yeah I do a little bit actually yeah um there's a there's a

1:10:30Jamie Genevieve: really nice uh like journal prompt exercise and it's basically you just write a really lovely story to yourself about exactly where you are but you go into the five senses pretty deep and I wrote this this story to myself that has a lot to do with you know my current medical state you know me being pregnant my current um condition but also the house that we're in now which uh i made up in my mind and wrote wrote about it um and there's just there was there was loads of things going on in this little story and one day quite recently i was looking around and i realized that it was exactly that story and i was sitting in it and it was it was phenomenal to the point where i kind of wanted to like be like not a preacher of this but i was like everyone needs to do this yeah yeah Everyone needs to do this.

1:11:15Jamie Genevieve: But it's amazing.

1:11:17Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah, well, and also it's a good way to channel what you're thinking about. And your perspective, I think perspective is so important, isn't it? How you frame what's going on is a really big thing. We have one thing in common, I realise as well, that might be an unexpected one to you, but we both got married in Italy with only 60 people at the wedding.

1:11:40Jamie Genevieve: Cool! Yeah, it's quite nice, isn't it, having a small wedding? yeah although and I think about that all the time do you think about that time all the time

1:11:47Sophie Ellis-Bextor: what the my wedding yeah I do actually it was a really happy one I mean uh we've been married for 20 years now great um and in our friendship group we were one of the first people to get married so it was really fun and like not like crazy crazy but you know we were all kind of young and silly

1:12:05Jamie Genevieve: exactly so it was really fun yeah I loved that time so much and it was just nice because you You know, all our friends and family were there for like a long weekend. And they were all silly as well. I remember my dad said that he was out drinking a coffee and he just saw one of the guests, one of my girlfriends, just running from one side of the grass to the other at like five in the morning. And he was just like, this is hilarious. But it was just the best. It was really great.

1:12:31Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Yeah.

1:12:31Jamie Genevieve: I love Italy.

1:12:32Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Me too. I got it.

1:12:34Jamie Genevieve: We went to Florence when Romy was three and a half months old. The Italians love a wee baby. Oh, yeah, they do. and it was great we went straight actually we went straight from Florence to London and I tell you what I don't think they like kids as much in London no well if you see children in a restaurant here in the evening

1:12:52Sophie Ellis-Bextor: you're like why are they out but they're

1:12:54Jamie Genevieve: all generations out until midnight isn't it and it's the best I'd like that for myself one day I'd quite like to retire with my garden and my community in Italy I'll need to learn Italian though if I want a community that sounds good

1:13:04Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I don't doubt it you'll be so busy with the factory there all your new developments in the brand you'll be fluent yeah oh thank you so while the sun's been hitting my face I hope it's brought up my supernova skin yeah you look gorgeous what do you think of these false eyelashes though they're quite a lot aren't they I love them I have my eyelashes extensions done for the first time last week and I'm quite self conscious about them actually

1:13:29Jamie Genevieve: I think they look great and you're about to have a really busy time yeah I think having that done is great

1:13:34Sophie Ellis-Bextor: at least there's a tiny bit of me always done

1:13:36Jamie Genevieve: yeah I love it I think it's inspired you've inspired me to go and get

1:13:40Sophie Ellis-Bextor: and thank you for coming to talk to me it's a pleasure I just know we should probably like have a date in the diary for about 10 years on for all the new developments in your world because I don't doubt there's way way way more to come

1:13:54Jamie Genevieve: it's exciting thank you

1:14:04Sophie Ellis-Bextor: that's funny that I finished the chat asking Jamie what she thinks of my eyelash extensions because speaking to you now I can tell you that I've just had them redone I know um but they were so handy when I was away uh I literally could wake up or roll off a plane or anything and my eyelashes just look really complete and done and happy and I thought they looked quite extreme when I first did it everybody kept saying no they don't look extreme they look quite I'm used to them already and then I got used to them and now I'm a lady with long lashes I'm kind of loving it um the woman I've been seeing you can find her uh lash addiction is her Instagram that might be what happens she was telling me right from the offset you're gonna get addicted um but it was so lovely to speak to Jamie Genevieve what a warm and uh instinctive businesswoman she is I like how she has followed her gut and obviously has a lot of canny with her to arm her for how to roll out a business, but is led by passion and opportunity.

1:15:20I think it's interesting, isn't it?

1:15:22Sophie Ellis-Bextor: I've realized how many people, look, there's lots of people who succeed while in business where they're just very good at the corporate side and they can understand how to make numbers work and it doesn't really matter what the product is, but they can just work a business plan. But the people I get really excited about are the ones who are proper fans of the thing they end up working in so they've got that unique blend of seeing opportunity and going for it but ultimately they're also the person that gets really excited about the thing that they are involved in and so they find the joy in every day because they've got the kernel of just the thing they absolutely love is the thing they've ended up to make also their business so Jamie is absolutely an example of that and I wish her all the best with everything and her second pregnancy uh it's uh it's exciting I know there'll be a new baby there soon um meanwhile back with me today so as I said I I just squeezed in um a lashes appointment on my only day at home actually of this week because I just got back yesterday from San Francisco we had such a good time with the kids I'm so glad we did it what a fun city absolutely tons to do and we hit the ground running so I got in last night I don't know about you when you get back from family trips but I just unpacked everything so all our suitcases are empty I've been putting on washing loads I just want to get things back to normal as quickly as possible it becomes quite compulsive actually and then today I sort of got out of bed I don't know about eight-ish didn't do too badly and I've just had a very strong coffee and even though there's an eight hour time difference from where I left and where I'm now I actually feel all right touch wood and all that uh Australia and and around the world was so much fun had such a good good trip it was so good to do those gigs and uh this week I've got lots of nice things actually I've got a couple of shows a bit of filming a project I'm not sure I'm allowed to talk about actually but I'll tell you about it in due course and more of the podcast coming to you next week so I can smell roast dinner which is making a roast it's Sunday afternoon now um the sun is actually kind of half shining here in London town so good to be seeing a bit of that vitamin d as well listen thank you for lending me your ears thank you to everybody involved in the podcast of course Ella Mow does the artwork Richard who does the editing Claire Jones who as a production, Jamie Genevieve for being such a glorious guest this week, you for your ears, and I will see you again next week.

1:17:58Sophie Ellis-Bextor: All right, take care.

1:18:24Thank you.