Episode 182: Louise Boyce

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2:17Hello, I'm Safiola Spexter and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it all work. I'm a singer and I've released eight albums in between having my five sons, aged between seven years old and nearly 22. So I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a little bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello. It's Sunday afternoon here. So greetings from the past.

2:58I'm in the garden just trying to organise stuff in between rain showers. Today's been all right, but it's been a bit up and down on it recently in London town anyway. and yeah it's been a nice Sunday and last night the family we all watched Eurovision Song Contest because it's literally my favourite night of the year I've been watching it since I was a kid and I really enjoy what it's about I enjoy the performances I thought there were so many good ones yesterday and our family favourite won so well done Bulgaria but lots of people really brought it some very brilliant performers that are absolutely sort of locked in in the zone I love watching people when they're in that moment so exciting and then off I've been up to today I went to a vintage little fern in my house it was quite cool bought a couple of things I don't need but it was very fun and then we just went to the cinema to see the sheep detectives sheep detective which I actually thought was really sweet and yeah it's been nice oh I also had quite a surreal Friday because I went and I sort of got up on Friday morning school run as usual and then lunchtime went to the airport flew to Ibiza and then Richard and I found ourselves on stage at Amnesia at 2 o 'clock in the morning on Friday night where I was singing Richard was DJing and then we had a really lovely morning in Ibiza and then flew home just after lunch it was actually really nice and hot yesterday so that felt quite a surreal little thing I mean I do I love the nature of my work and I like how unexpected I can find myself like that just turn up in places but I think there's always something really that really amuses me it really tickles me when I find myself in like proper super club like that it's such a funny side to my world um anyway this week's podcast uh lovely Louise Boyce also known as Mama Sogote who I've been following for a good long while now actually and I like her take on motherhood and life I find her funny and it resonates and I did her podcast a little while back and so I was like come and speak to me for mine and it was such a good chat it's there are lots of parallels with my life Louise is the same sort ages me she has three children 13 10 6 and she's lived a very interesting life she does lots of things so she's primarily would be known as a content creator very successful one she's also an author and a model and she has a very sorted attitude when it comes to her relationship with her body which funnily is i say not dissimilar i feel like i'm in much better terms with myself now than i was when i was younger and arguably you're in a shape that you you know is presented as desirable but so much happier now and that's what louise has in spades and she's a really positive has a really positive perspective on it all as you will hear but also not afraid to be very honest about her experiences of modeling and the more toxic side of it and how she mistreated her body over the years and has rebuilt her relationship with herself and how she finds motherhood and all that comes with it and the out the outlet that the online community can provide where you share things and you just automatically feel better and less alone and as so often is the case with the podcast it's sometimes the side of parenting that I like talking about is the sort of invisible side so we might have what looks like you know interesting exciting you know fulfilling lives yes but there's also the invisible side of it isn't there the stuff where people don't see you where you're struggling or you know just trying to make ends meet or keep it all together or keep the plates spinning.

7:09So here is my conversation with Louise. I will keep pottering about the garden while we listen back. It was a joy to speak to her and I'll see you on the other side. Oh, I don't know if this needs a trigger, but Louise does talk about her relationship. While she's talking about her relationship with her body, she talks about the period of her life where she was bulimic. So I'm just putting that out there in case that's something that people might be sensitive to. So there you have it. alright I'll see you on the other side

7:44well it's that feeling where I feel like I could have pressed record when you came in I know right I know I was actually thinking is this recording already because this is good chat it's true let's repeat ourselves yes it's lovely to see you it's lovely to be here we last saw each other when I came to record your podcast yes no parental guidance which I really enjoyed it was great it was a really good episode thanks for coming on yeah lovely chat and for my research purposes today rather handily you've done a lot of things close location and same age yes I know yeah that's right so thank you it's very thoughtful I haven't had to work too hard on like remembering what year I meant what age you would be or anything yeah nice yes because we're both 1980 right well I'm actually 79 oh that's right so you have the much more convenient easy birthday to remember because yours I do went up as the decade I always think of that.

8:36I always think, oh, I know exactly how old I was then because I can do the maths very easily. And also when I was younger, I would be quite proud of being born in the 70s. And now I'm like, the 80s sounds a bit better to me. Clinging on to another. I think that even makes, does it mark for a different generational thing? I think maybe there's... I have no idea. Actually, no, I think it does. I think I'm on the cusp of a millennial. Yes. And something else. I don't know, I forget. I don't know. I don't know. My kids are quite obsessed with talking about what generation they are, actually. Which is weird because I don't think we were ever that obsessed with it when we were growing up.

9:07And as your children, thoughtfully, you've had them very similar days to mine as well. So your children are 13, 10 and 6. I just do it all for you, Sophie. Like I'm just making it very easy for you. We've had our diaries synced for years now. I wonder if your 13-year-old remarks on the fact that your youngest is a different generation as well. Because that's quite a topic in our house sometimes. Oh, actually, no, I don't think he has. God, that's right. So what generation are the youngest ones then? So there's Gen Zs and then Gen Alpha. That's right. Yeah. So I get my teenagers will mock the younger two for being Gen Alpha or Gen iPad, as they call them.

9:41Gen iPad. Oh, my God. Gen iPad. Great. How's Trix? What are you up to in your working life at the moment? Well, we've just had International Women's Day and Mother's Day all in one week, which is a lovely week. I love that week. So that was full on, but lovely. But yeah, life's good. It's been very, you know, it's busy. The podcast keeps me busy, work, got three kids and all everything that goes with that. But I can't complain. It's getting warmer and brighter outside. Thank the Lord. and there are projects in the making but I can't say too much yet about certain things but it's exciting things are moving which is great you know I kind of look back to where I am now compared to like five ten years ago and this is where I wanted to be and you kind of forget because it's such a journey that you forget that actually everything that I've built up to now is what I wanted so I remind myself of that well that's really um significant so when you can we explore that a little bit what are the things what are the seeds you planted five years ago that you're now seeing shoot up so i guess five years ago uh or even six years ago really was like the covid hit and like everything stopped and before then i was doing some modeling and um i got kicked out of modeling when i had my children because it was like well you're a mother now you're done which is where like mum has still got it came from because I was like well hang on a minute no no no I can still do this but in the meantime I got an office job to just kind of get thing you know have a little bit of income um and then COVID hit and like everyone everything just stopped and I think that's when I really had to focus on mum has still got it whatever that was which basically was me being an absolute wallet on social media because there was there was nothing else to do and for me laughter was my secret weapon of like getting through the anxiety that that came with covid and I just remember just doing really stupid videos online thinking nothing of it and then seeing my account grow and people messaging me saying this is great And I remember thinking five, six years ago, I would love to be in a position where I could maybe share more of that humor and laughter in a book or a podcast or, you know, in a live on stage.

12:19And those things have happened and it takes time. But I'm really grateful that that's happened. And, you know, it's nice to kind of reflect and go, wow. And I write diaries. I keep diaries all the time. and so when I look back on those diaries from years ago and I am writing things like oh I'd love to have a book and I'd love to love to have a podcast and it's nice to go actually tick I've done that I mean you you must relate to that as well with your career and you know things that you want to do and and it's nice to kind of go yeah I did that that's really good yeah well there's lots of things I was thinking about with how you've approached your your community your all the strings to your bow that are marks of lovely things of like you know your creativity um but also actually the skills as well because I was thinking you know with a lot of your firstly I love I love what you do that's how I first came to know about you and I think what resonated with me is that you're you know when you're talking you're sharing the sort of other side of motherhood the normally more invisible side of it first you say loads of humor silliness um but also it is not um complainy and i think it's a i think it's quite a tightrope sometimes yes because you're acknowledging the ridiculousness and how you know you can feel like for want of a better word like a bit of a husk of a person when you're really in the trenches of early motherhood yes you lose a sense of identity who the flip am I where's it gone all the things I built up that I really like you know wanting to feel nice about myself or show up for people or string a sentence together seem to be they've diminished they feel ridiculous they feel absurd they feel incongruous and I think that shift into the new version of yourself and clawing your way back to who you were or the new version of it it's really nice to have those conversations around you and have those peers reflect it back you know i'm not alone yeah but i think it's also there was a little bit of a time where some of the online community uh particularly sort of portrayal of that side of motherhood could also be with a kind of oh god this is awful yeah they're awful this is awful the husband's awful the partner's awful and i get that sometimes there's a you know ricochet from one thought to another and obviously that that was a reaction to the sort of absolute pedestal of motherhood and how it's supposed to be perceived and you're going god it doesn't feel like that on may thanks so i sort of get that culturally yes i didn't necessarily it didn't necessarily tell my story oh god i totally agree i totally agree and i um i think for me i just started doing videos that were that probably happened that day especially like during lockdown um and yeah like the everyday mundane things that we go through um that where you do feel alone but then when you kind of say it out loud and put a comedy spin on it it makes for me it just makes everything go oh yeah it's actually all right you know and I love the the thought of I'm not alone we're all in this together and when I first became a mum I did feel alone I wasn't online I was one of the first of my like type group friends to have a baby and the only person that I knew had a baby at the same time as me that I was kind of like looking up to was Beyonce relatable content yeah do you know what I mean like and how's she feeling today oh yeah amazing she looked amazing she I'm not saying that's the truth but it just looked and she had all the nannies and all the cooks ambition yeah still turned up to 11 or whatever.

16:10So I was like, oh God, like I don't look as good as Beyonce and I'm not back at work. Like ridiculous stuff. And so I did feel really alone. And when I joined Instagram, again, like I just saw perfection. And we all know motherhood is not always rainbows and butterflies. You know, it's everything. It's messy and it's wonderful, but it's loud and it's a lot and I thought that I was the only person that was feeling that and it wasn't until like genuinely it wasn't until I started making these silly videos and to be to be fair I started doing them first on TikTok and I didn't have a following at all and I kind of felt like oh I could do what I want no one knows who I am this is great I'm just gonna have fun with this and some of those videos would go viral on TikTok and then I would put them over onto Instagram.

17:09It was before Instagram had reels. So I would like just go, oh, let's just see how this works. And it worked. And people were messaging me saying, oh my God, this happened to me. I can't believe I'm not alone in this. This is amazing. And so to know that I was making relatable content that actually made mothers feel better about themselves or just make them realize that they're not alone uh maybe just do it more and more and more I think it really helped me like even some videos before I'd like press you know post I'd be questioning am I alone in this like am I the only one and then you're like no definitely not alone and it was really nice it really felt like a sense of yeah togetherness community and um we've got each other and then I did a post on um things that my husband asks like really rhetorical questions like pointing at a clothes horse full of clothes and just saying to me is this dry I was like just just touch it or you know pointing at a radiator is that on just feel it like like those stupid questions that again I'm not alone but I had um I had women message me saying oh my god I think you've just saved my marriage because I thought that I was the only one that had this kind of idiot of a husband And it's like, no, actually, it's almost universal.

18:48And so, again, it was, yeah, it was nice for me to, I don't know, maybe let people know that they are not alone. And it is funny. You know, we do love our kids and we do love our husbands, hopefully. And but it's nice to make light of all the mundane things that we go through. Definitely. and there's so much to be said for making the invisible visible I think and that is one of the things I love about uh social media in general is that whilst we don't have a monoculture in the same way you can have all these subcultures so you can sort of find your people yes and I find that really comforting oh that's nice yeah I agree I follow some amazing accounts and I again I'm like oh that's that's brilliant I love that and how you can frame things sometimes as well yeah But I do think you are a very positive person.

19:41And I've been listening to a few conversations you've had elsewhere. And it's not to say that life has always been rosy, but it's just that I think your perspective is pretty grounded and upbeat. Thank you. I am a very positive person, actually. It's a nice thing to celebrate, though. Yeah. No, I definitely am. Yes, I think sometimes, well, at home, there's a lot of dancing in the kitchen, which I'm sure you can relate to. I would never. Yeah, there's a lot of music. There's a lot of laughter. And I am a positive person. We have the choice. I was going to ask you about that because do you think it is quite a choice to be sort of pragmatic?

20:22Are you quite pragmatic with how you sort of, the narrative you tell yourself from life events and the unexpected? Yeah, I think it's like the way that even I talk to myself, like the way that we all talk to ourselves is so important because whatever you say to yourself, you kind of manifest. And I went through a period in my life where I was so negative about myself. I really put myself down. And so many of us do. It's so easily done. You know, we are our worst critic. And I don't know what the shift was. Maybe it was around motherhood. And I wanted, you know, the way that I talk to my children, which is always very positive and upbeat I was like well I should be saying that to myself because I saw how my children reacted to that and it was lovely so then I was like well I'm just gonna do that more to myself and it does make a difference and if I do say something negative to myself which of course it does you know I do I'm only human I I recognize it and I've said no no no let's let's rewind and I think a classic example is if you look back on photos of yourself 20 years ago 30 years ago and I remember there was there's one specific time where I was really hard on myself and I thought I was vile and hated my body hated everything about me and I look at those photos now and I'm like oh my god you had no idea how amazing you were and I cannot believe you spoke yourself like that and because I spoke to myself like that it came out in my my energy like my presence in a room or the way that I would just like close down around friends or family and it affected my career it affected relationships and you know it was just like I wish that I could go back to that girl and be like you're amazing like please like you're amazing and even now you know we we get days now you know you and i are what mid-40s and we are going through perimenopause and we're seeing changes and there are days when i'm like oh god look at this yeah my skin or whatever wrinkles la la la but um i'm gonna look at a picture of myself in 20 years time and look back on today and be like wow you're amazing look at look how good you look do I don't know but do you know what I mean it's like we uh I think we need to celebrate ourselves more and just really really love ourselves more and um so I I do that and I think that makes me a positive person and I really don't sweat the small stuff I think that comes with age well I was thinking while you were talking about firstly I agree with everything you said but secondly i was thinking but yes i have i haven't been as good with you as doing the diaries but i did have one when i was a teenager which weirdly i read aloud in total to my one of my kids oh my god i thought it was hilarious and now i'm like that's how old were you in your diary like 15 16 i wish i had my and i was reading it all like oh my i mean oh gosh I'm actually blushing thinking back you are blushing poor kids he was like why are you doing this and I was like because it's hilarious and I'm like that was probably awful for him love that but at one point yeah I am a bit sometimes a tiny bit of oversharing but I think my mum did it to me and we're fine oh I'm definitely an oversharer always I can't help it I'll be like check this this is a funny story oh I probably should have said that actually yeah part of my diary from that time I remember sort of rating myself out of 10 oh my gosh in all departments you know kind of like you know chest up the legs down you know awful well what what rating did you give yourself not good it did not turn out well for me no no it was really it was brutal that is brutal because I think I felt like you're coming into yourself and you look at yourself in the mirror and I remember being a bit like well I was hoping for better but I guess this is where I'm at so and if you could look back on if you could rate yourself now well I think what's funny is the stuff I choose to wear on stage I would never been seen anywhere near when I was you know arguably in much better shape or slimmer or trim or whatever the things I thought were valuable but it turns out that actually the celebration of yourself is a much more internal oh god absolutely than what the you know what the tape measure said oh my god the tape measure I literally hate the well talking of that so I want to plot the course a little bit because you started modeling when you were really young yeah 15 I was 15 yeah that's so little to be put into that environment I know and and what did you know of that world at that time did it just seem like an glamorous enticement yeah that's all I knew it was like well it was the Kate Moss era you know it was when she was It was like 1995 and Kate Moss was, you know, the it girl.

25:41And it just looked so glamorous. And when I was taken on by a modeling agency, it was, you know, my dreams come true. This is amazing. Did you get scouted in a shop or something? So it's, I had an appointment to go and see an agency and I went in there and the person I was meant to see wasn't there. So I left and went to a coffee shop. and whilst I was in that coffee shop, the person was there and spotted me. So it was a bit of both. And he was like, yeah, he was like, oh, have you ever thought about modeling? And I was like, well, actually, I'm about to go and see an agent. He was like, oh, that's me.

26:13So it was kind of a bit of both. And so when I first started, I didn't know anything about it. And you have to remember it's before, like there wasn't even the internet. Like I remember the agency had like these huge portfolio books of like either the entire agency, which were huge um or you'd have your own portfolio and you'd lug it around and you know had an a to z there was no google maps and you had to walk around london and meet photographers yeah and i was you know i was 15 and i think 15 year olds back in the 90s were were more they were we were still children like a 15 year old now i feel like they seem to be more grown up that's interesting because in some ways though i'd say 15 year olds in the 90s we i mean we were out and about i was quite a lot whereas now there's a lot more tracking and that's true there is transparency i would say yeah and like you're accountable expected to be accountable a lot more that now whereas then i loved i loved being off radar quite frankly but um there's so many things that no one will ever know there's no evidence that is so good isn't it oh it's so good um but But yeah, I mean, it was a time where you didn't really have a voice, I guess, because there wasn't any social media.

27:34There wasn't a platform to stand on and go, hang on a minute, this isn't right. And I very quickly realized that I wasn't good enough. I was always told that I needed to lose weight. Tape measure came out. I was always lassoed around my hips. And I was told to lose weight constantly. But I was never told how to lose weight. And it was very much like an urgency. like you've got I think I was given two weeks to lose two inches around my hips and at the time I was already like a size I was wearing UK size eight trousers because I remember I bought a pair from Miss Selfridge to go to Hammersmith Palais with my girls on a night out by this point I was 16 so I was small and I was told that I needed to lose two inches in two weeks that is uh I'd say that's negligent to give that advice to a teenager uh yeah and I didn't tell my family because I knew that my mum would take me out you know she would like forget it so you had the presence of mind to think that doesn't sound like something my mum would approve yeah of course like I knew that but but at the same time I couldn't believe that I had this contract and I didn't want to let anyone down and I wanted to I wanted to do it I wanted to be a model so I just thought well I'm just going to have to I don't know how I'm going to do this but I have to do it I didn't have any money to join a gym nor did my mom like we you know we grew up very we didn't have any money growing up so there was no chance we're going to the gym I was very sporty and I was at this point still at school so I was doing PE and I was running a lot um but I just went down the route of so many other girls which is just don't eat um but because i lived at home my mom would give me the evening meal and you know i'm a parent like eat up eat your food so i did and then i'd feel like oh my god i can't believe i've just eaten that that's horrendous so then i go and throw it up and that was my routine hannah i just venmo'd you for dinner obsessed i'm spending it right now on the lip gloss that's been sitting in my cart.

29:43What do you mean spending it right now? You can instantly spend your balance with the Venmo debit card or when you pay with Venmo at checkout. Stop, say more. More exactly. The more you do with Venmo, the more you get. Like earning up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Get the Venmo debit card or checkout online. Venmo Stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. Max$100 per month. See terms at venmo.me slash stashterms. terms. Venmo checkout, not available at all merchants. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. The to-do list doesn't stop, and neither does the pressure to keep up with it.

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30:56Sessions average about$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash ACAST today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things. So why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping.

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32:17I would, my routine would be no breakfast. I would go on my castings. I would have a Diet Coke, chewing gum and a packet of Marlboro Lights. And that was my day. And then I would get home and then have dinner. And I was on the tube, like fainting. Like it was awful. I was torturing myself. But I was desperate to get really thin. It was like, I have to do this. I don't want to be kicked out of the agency. um and so they told me they said go away for two weeks come back um and the anxiety that I had walking back into the agency after the two weeks yeah like have I done it enough and in the meantime I'm like I'm stripping myself of any goodness like regardless if it's like nutrients and everything but also just my confidence my self-esteem like everything was just stripped my skin got really bad um I had like calluses in the back of my knuckles because I kept shoving my hand down my throat like like awful and I remember going back in the agency and they still weren't satisfied I was just like oh my god I don't know what else to do so you just keep going you just kept going and then they sent me to australia to do some modeling there um and when i was away even though i did feel like i'm i fit in a bit more because in the uk it was very much like heroin chic very very thin um i remember yeah yeah so knowing all the stats of all the supermodels yes and all of us sitting around at school trying to see if our waists could be anything like Kate Moss.

34:07Oh my God, I know. And that was my life. Like I had actual grownups doing it to me. It's an extraordinary idea. Oh my gosh. But then I do think, well, unfortunately, I feel like a lot of what you said really, I can mirror a lot of it actually. Because I, you know, a girl of the 90s in London and like teenager then. And I found myself doing a bit of modeling as well. But also I understand that the bulimia is the it's the sort of symptom but the cause the root of it is more to do with your mental health and how you're trying to uh have some control over where you're at your body's still growing yes still evolving um and there's an exhilaration i think i felt in having a sort of other life away from my parents eyes and feeling like oh well this is my thing and this is my world and these people are seeing me from here on yeah so where i've come up to to now doesn't really that's not really relevant anymore yeah you sort of push back on a lot of things oh god absolutely on the wholesome yes the wholesome world of you know what our mothers were oh my god trying to do and because i got shipped off to australia yeah so you're only like 18 or something I was 17 by this point on your own on my own oh flipping heck that's a long way to go it's a long way and again it's before mobile phones it was before Zoom like FaceTime like my mum used to write me letters and we she would call the house phone but if I wasn't in I wasn't in so I was very much alone but I was like ah I can now probably try and get even more thinner now because I don't have to eat my evening meal.

35:58And then I introduced laxatives. Like, awful. And I remember, oh my God. I mean, I remember buying some laxatives in Sydney and it said like on the packet, like take one cube or something. I think it was like a bar. It was like take one cube, I ate the whole lot. And when I say, now that I've actually given birth, so I understand the pain, I arrived, I mean, it's not funny, but I mean, looking back, it is actually like it was a lesson learned. I remember arriving in a, I was at the, I was in the tube in Sydney and all of a sudden the cramps came on and I was bent over, like trying to find a toilet.

36:41The cramps, oh my gosh. And I just basically, well, you can imagine it was very embarrassing. Just made it to the toilet and, but the cramps. and again I was all alone just that and then I started to question at that point it's like what am I doing yeah what am I doing to myself this is I'm not even happy I wasn't even really getting the work because I didn't have anything you know when you're a model when you're an entertainer you're on you know you're in front of the camera you have to switch it on you have to be entertaining regardless if you're still just standing still and getting your picture taken you still have to have that presence and I didn't have that so and even at castings when you have seconds to impress a photographer or an art director or a client the people know within those seconds if you can bring it on set and I didn't have any of that I just turned up going am I thin enough and not thinking do I have what you can I sell what you want me to sell at the end of the day you know models are hangers were there to sell their clothes and I just didn't have that presence that pizzazz that if you look at all the you know the top supermodels you see them on set like they're amazing like they're actual artists they can move in certain ways and bring to life anything and I didn't have that because I didn't have it in my soul like it left and it wasn't until I did get better and I started to be kinder to myself and I actually did kind of fast forwarding a few years now but I did get back into modeling as a model with curves and that's when my career took off because I was healthy I was comfortable in my own skin finally and I had the confidence back I had the sparkle or back of my eye and I had rosy cheeks again and my hair was shiny again and and I could go on set and bring that pizzazz and that joy I had it and that's when my career took off well I think that's um incredibly special that you obviously had um given yourself what you needed to to get yourself that spot and by saying that I understand where you're coming from with a lot of that is in no way uh normalizing it no uh you know I do I do appreciate what you're sharing is something that at the time was very hidden yes it was it was very personal yeah and um I I really um do feel for you actually it kind of makes me want to go back and I know scoop you up a little bit because I think when you're talking about it first you said you know you you didn't feel you had a voice and i think that's a very significant experience when you're in a formative period of your life because you're basically being introduced the idea that you're working life you're supposed to leave so much of yourself behind even if you're a walking um manifestation of how it's affecting you i think that's really tough that's a very unhealthy instruction at that age of your you know when you're at that age but also um yeah just being able to uh move on from that to a point where you're able to enjoy your body and also enjoy the changes that come with having a baby oh my god and i did and i'm so pleased that i did i was actually told in the height of my bulimia i was told that i wouldn't be able to have children but i wasn't having periods and i was just told but i didn't i didn't care i wasn't In fact, you probably thought, well, I really must be doing this, you know, to the point where something's happening significantly.

40:36Yes. And I was 18 at this point. And I remember thinking, I don't care. That's not even on my radar right now. The last thing on my mind is I don't care. And it wasn't until I met my husband now, Jesse. And he was, I knew that I wanted to procreate with him. um and I remember saying I wanted to make people with him and I remember saying to him um if we can't have children am I enough like are we enough and he was like yeah of course you know I'm with you I love you and I was like okay cool and actually we did manage to have children which I'm extremely grateful for. And seeing my body change, I actually was really excited.

41:29I loved it. I even loved, you know, when you, after you've given birth and your tummy's still a bit big and it's a bit rubbery and stuff, loved it. I was like, this is amazing. Look what my body's done. I loved it all. And I was just really happy that, and just really proud that my body managed to do it after everything I've put my body through and the way that I spoke to my body and the way that I disrespected my body and then my body was able to do that I'm like thank you actually thank you so yeah I loved every second of it and I'd do it again if I had well probably ovaries eggs

42:16I don't think I've got any left yeah it's got to put my little ones like can we have another one i'm like that is literally i mean you've had five i mean are you done well i my body's definitely done but in terms of like the kids they would love more they just thought my kids really want more conveyor belt that would not stop yeah yeah well i think we all thought that so um yeah well i think i also kind of ran out of room but um my sister's had a baby now so the baby battle has been passed nice yeah my sister-in-law lives around the corner and she's just had her second baby and so she comes around and I hold the baby and I get my fix and I smell the head and I do all those lovely things and then I can pass the baby back but that is lovely to have so have like babies in your life definitely I love it I like the cyclical nature of things um but also listening to you speak I think it reminds me again as well that part of the way to really enjoy your 40s is to really um sort of sit alongside the other versions of you you've been and oh sit within your next to your demons a little bit yeah just explore it and if you if you're lucky enough to have good support around you which you know doesn't have to be your partner but also you know your girlfriends your the people where the roots run deep and yes they know each other yes all those conversations oh absolutely oh god massively and i'm so grateful to have such an amazing of girlfriends around me um i'm still very very close to the girls I went to school with you know met with me we're 11 uh we've been through everything together uh heartbreak marriage miscarriage babies divorce everything we've we've always been there for each other and now obviously we're navigating menopause and it's nice yeah and teenagers and and one of my good friends actually a few of my friends are going through quite a nasty divorce and we are all there for each other and it's so important to have that village a hundred percent around you yeah um i don't think i could get through a lot of stuff that i mean god the amount of voice notes that me and my friends send to each other it's like our own little personal podcasts are like this and that and um that's the world to rights it does it does it makes you laugh it does my friends can make me howl with laughter with that sort of stuff there's actual scientific evidence that if you rant to your girlfriends it actually reduces like cortisol and oh yeah and it reduces all sorts of real time yeah 100 percent um so yeah i'm really um grateful for that and yeah and now as we are in our we're in our 40s mid 40s I really feel a sense of we know who we are I don't now look for approval from other people which I spent my entire well I think ever since I started modeling when I was 15 I was constantly trying to get that approval whether it's from the agencies or boyfriends or girls that I just wanted I just wanted to please them like you know do you like me because I'm a really nice person and you know we can get on and actually I do feel now I've got to a point in my life by like if you don't like me that's fine like you don't have to like me and I don't have to like you or I'm happy with who I am and that's fine and I'm grateful that I have that especially having a presence on social media because obviously you can get negative comments and you can get people being like oh well i'm gonna unfollow you now you're like that's fine that's none of my business i won't even notice you yeah you can unfollow me it doesn't bother me um thank you for being here whilst you were and good luck you know all the best it doesn't bother me thank god and back to your working life uh with firstly how do you term what you do because i know for some people when they've got an online community and that's their main their main hub they don't like some of the terms that I've used if they say like influencer or mumfluencer how do you feel about those things um I feel like I do feel like we need more words because it's creator yeah yeah broadcaster yeah creator seems to have evolved from influencer and I do prefer the word creator because I feel like I do create yeah I am creating like original content uh I'm creating like I I I don't just have social media.

46:47You know, I'm creating my blog and the podcast and the book. And there's all these other things. And I do feel like I am creating. And I love that. I love creating. But the words don't really bother. I'm an influencer. I guess I am a bit of a momfluencer, which means I'm an influencer. I mean, I guess I do influence. It's a funny word, though, because I don't think it quite summarizes my relationship with that. for me it is more like I think of it like as you say definitely creative but also like a broadcaster because it's like your channel it's like you come somewhere and find things as if you were watching a TV show that's kind of where you head for that.

47:27Yes I like that broadcaster. But I did notice with yours there's so many skill sets that go into it where did you learn about did you learn on the fly with the editing and things like that Yeah, it's all self-taught. Because that is basically where the humour has to land, right? Yeah, so I'm very, so I get asked a lot, you know, who does your videos, who does your editing. I do it all because I know what I like. And I guess maybe I'm a bit of a control freak there because it would be so much easier just to say to someone, right, just do it for me. I don't know how you would outsource it though because that's a bit like...

48:06It's very personal. yeah well it's basically you're you're completely you know how you're what the shape of it yeah so i totally understand why i actually it didn't actually occur to me it wouldn't be you because because of that yes because how would you say oh no but you need to can that bit go there for that you know and actually i did i did get my brother my brother's a cameraman editor and i asked him to help me film something for christmas and i i did a spin-off of home alone but i called it mumma alone and it was like recreated home alone scenes um from the movie and did a mother one and I asked him to help me with that because I wanted it to look a bit more premium rather than just on my iPhone um and he did edit that and I gotta say it was lovely to kind of have someone do that work but at the same time I was like can you just can you just change this can you oh I'm not sure about that and he was like Louise for god's sake it was like why don't you just come over and sit next to me we'll do it together I was like okay yeah but also it's your it's your personality and you you you said what when we first started talking about you saying about how significant it was to have have those people around you and helped helped you so you're you're the kernel of what you do is about the passion and what you receive from it yes I think there has to be a selfish route yeah kind of make it give you the impotence because otherwise you it needs your own momentum you're the one pushing the boulder right yeah absolutely and luckily I do really enjoy it and also I do have the support from Jesse my husband like he gets it and you know a lot you know there are some sketches that I do where I completely mock him I basically made up this character where he just grunts and luckily he is completely on board with that I do show him my sketches before I put them live just in case I've stepped over the mark a little bit um but he's always very much like that's brilliant and you should do this and why don't you do this and he comes up he's like you should do this and I'm like oh yeah that's a good idea actually and um you know if we're out and about he's like stand over there I'll take a picture of you you know put on your story so he gets it and I love that support um he understands it and I remember when I first thought about because actually the first thing I ever did was a blog before I did Instagram and I had just mumstillgotit.com and I remember not having a clue what I was doing and saying to Jesse I want to do this I'm not sure how and he was just like yeah cool I'll make you a logo and I was like okay so he made me the logo and he's always been like my cheerleader with that even if I am completely utterly taking the piss out of him he's there for it and that's lovely yeah and I've noticed as well one thing I like is that your kids aren't the they're not there as your close to us no no so has that always been quite a conscious decision or just how it evolved it's just how it evolved really I think where it started was I want my son it was during again it was lockdown and homeschooling and all of that absolute chaos and my son came in and I was in the middle of a zoom call writing an email on my laptop and he was like oh mommy mommy watch mommy watch I was like oh god yep okay hello again and then did something like ridiculous like hopping or something I was like that's great darling thank you um and then I thought oh actually that's that's I'm sure that's a relatable reel to do So then I asked him to do it again.

51:48And I said, I'll film you, we'll do it again. I'll give you a snack, do it again. And he refused, but still got the snack. And I just thought, I really want to recreate this. How can I do this? How can I be the child? And then I have these like plastic hands that a friend gave to me after I gave birth to my third child. And they were in like the kitchen drawer with, you know, when you have a kitchen drawer, that's just full of rubbish. I think I have more than one of those drawers. I love your kitchen, by the way. Just to say, we're in Sophie's house right now. It's the most phenomenal house. I can't stop looking around with everything here.

52:23It's amazing. I'm sure you go, I should have bought you some plastic hands. Oh, that would be fun. Give myself a little slap on the face. But yeah, so I found these plastic hands and I shot myself with the plastic hands, thinking, does this look like a kid? And I sent it to my mom and I was like, do you understand the story? She's like, no, I don't get it. I don't know what is this I don't what do you what is this and I was like okay god maybe I'm deluded here then I sent it to my best friend Jesse my best mate and my husband had both called Jesse and um and she was like I really needed to see that that that was that's that's great I really and she was like yeah put it up and the thing is with me and I think a lot of other creators or maybe it's just me if something if you put out something and it doesn't do as well as you think or maybe get backlash you can always just take it down and then it's old news and people get over it pretty quickly so I just thought okay I'll put this out and just see what happens and it worked and so because that worked I just then used this character as my children instead of using my own children which then meant that I could shoot when the kids were at school um and it meant that I could make it how I wanted it to be and I didn't want my I didn't want my kids to feel like they had to perform um you know if they want to do it do it or whatever and I know that my elders now would ask to be paid and he did we did do a shoot um a few years ago where the kids had to be seen.

54:10It was a paid client and they all got paid for it, of course. So that's when they like it. But I would prefer to not have them in, especially now that my eldest is 13. His mates follow me online. He's like, mum, you can't, you know, there are certain things now you need to keep private. And I'm like, I totally get it. He wrote me the most beautiful card on Mother's Day that reduced me to utter sobbing tears. makes me want to cry just thinking about it and um this is the one mother's day yeah just gone it was beautiful and I thought I might share that because I'm so proud of this and then I thought no I you know some things are private and you have to keep things private and also he wouldn't want that you know his mates might see that and then I don't want that I don't want he you know he wouldn't want that and so I just said no I'm not I'm not going to do that and I'm pleased because I think it's only about probably 10 % of my life that I share online there's so much of it that people have no idea about which is nice it's really nice but it is funny and I'm sure you have this too when people come up to you and they feel like they know you and they go hi and they and I love that because I'm such like I'm such a hugger and I love talking and so when people come up to me oh i don't know who the hell they are but they talk to me as if they know me so then i just talk back as if i know them and they're just like oh oh let's go i think i actually went for a coffee with someone i didn't know who the hell they were and i was like yeah let's go yeah you forget coffee out of it yeah um yeah it's funny i think they call that a parasocial relationship is that what it's called they sort of fill in the gaps and they feel they know you a lot and i think it's really interesting you say it's about 10 of your life because I think, I actually think as well with what you do, it's more about how it affects you.

56:04So the kids become everybody's kid when you don't see a kid. It could be anyone, you know, we're all in it with you. So I think sometimes when it is an actual person, you start going, oh, that doesn't really look like my child or they've behaved a bit differently. Yeah, yeah. You know? Because that's kind of, that has, I'm sure there's things out there that would do that, but that maybe isn't quite what your character, those reels is about. No, no, exactly. So I think that's significant as well. Yeah. And I feel like I, because I play this silly character that has evolved more than I ever thought.

56:41You know, there's now merch and advent calendars at Christmas and that all goes to charity, which is lovely. But it just means that I can have control of that character. Definitely. and I can make it funny or whatever. Also, you can choose when you're reminiscing about a small person. It doesn't have to be where you're at, really. Yeah. These kids, when they get older, don't feel like they want to be the cute little sidekick. No, my 13-year-old, and I'm sure you can relate as well, he's kind of reached the next level of cringe. I'm cringe. Well, I got told off this morning when I left the house to take them to school.

57:20my 10 year old we have a little school near the end of our road so sometimes when we walk out there's a little you know there's a little stream of school children going the other way and I was still singing something we'd just been listening to and I literally got mummy I mean he was nearly blinking back tears oh my god the idea I wasn't even singing outward it was a kind of like does he know how cool his mum is can you imagine like Sophie Lysbeckstead having a private solo tour on the way to school oh no it's mega embarrassing The singing is very annoying for them, I think. I sing around the place all the time and it's, no, it's definitely a bit forbidden at the moment.

57:57Oh, God, I think it's so cool. They'll realise when they're old, they'll be like, oh, my God. I don't know. Do they know, like, how awesome you are? You know what? I will bring it up tonight. Yes, I think you should. I think you should. Do you have any idea? I kind of like the fact they don't have any interest. I think that's quite a nice feeling, actually. I don't need fans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you have got many. yeah I know what you mean I mean I do need those fans I really need those fans please don't take that out of context I mean I don't need to birth I don't need to birth them you don't need your kids to be your no because I think that would be well that's you as mum I just don't want them to think of me like that yeah yeah I know I'm much like you with the 10 % the stage me is the 10 % I need it for my head I need it to recalibrate you know I will 100 % agree with I think at the root of it you're impetus for doing what you've done and what you've come out of it with is exactly the same as what fuels me.

58:53You know, that feeling of like having another, just reminding yourself there's all these sides, all these facets. And the juxtaposition of the two can sometimes be really funny. Yes. Particularly when you've gone from something, you know, the world of modelling, which is all about creating this perfection. Yes, and being really perfect and serious. and actually I'm not I realised I'm not a very serious person I am silly and I remember before I would go on set when I was modelling I would have to like go into the loo and like shake off all the silliness and be like come on get rid of it get rid of it and then kind of like compose myself I'm shaking your sillies out I know I'm shaking my sillies out and now I'm like I'm just going to use those sillies you're a little children's entertainer on your own in a loo but I do remember like just having to just like literally shake it off and be like Louise be cool like you fancy the photographer you have to be cool here and um so I think I did kind of hide this side of me that was always a bit silly and then my best friends all have said like they always knew that I was silly but I always kind of shielded it because I felt like I had to and it wasn't until I met Jesse my husband that they say that it came out in me um and hasn't stopped well I love that you had that conversation about you know am I am we are we enough without anything else because I think actually silliness and all of that is actually I used to think it was a sort of optional extra like a little sprinkle of something you didn't really need and I've realized actually it's kind of what makes the difference between getting on with stuff and then feeling really down actually yeah I mean for me I'm all for it yeah laughter is such a good remedy it's such it's the best medicine and that is what I go on even if I'm having a horrid perimenopausal hormonal hole of negativity I will seek out laughter even if it means finding funny cat videos online I will watch them until I am creasing up and for me that really helps me me too or have a chat with a girlfriend rant clear that and then almost reset but laughter has always helped me and hoping that I can make other people laugh knowing that that might help them makes me feel good and that's why I keep doing it yeah well that is a lovely note to end on and it works yeah I'm all for it

1:01:44thank you for the conversation Louise and yes it's a fitting note to end on talking about how friendship rants can actually you know provide you with the tonic to a stressful life because actually I think that's sorry that was me chucking a bit of cardboard in the garden I think that's actually how the podcast works for me I don't know about you guys but I just always feel better after a good chat. Like, every time. It's an amazing tonic. And I'm very lucky to have the opportunity to speak to such lovely women. So thank you for your support in doing what I do with this podcast. And thanks to Louise.

1:02:22And yeah, such a good chat. And it's nice. I mean, as you know, the podcast guests, I've cast my net far and wide for lots of different examples of what a career can look like, lots of different examples of what parenthood could look like. But every once in a while, there'll be a guest when I'm like, wow, there's a lot of parallels here. And so, yeah, Louise and I obviously started off talking about having the born pretty much. So, I made me grow up not that far away from each other and some of it's really lined up. Do check out as well... Oops, sorry, I just tripped on a chair that I'm putting out for the rubbish.

1:02:58Sorry, it's a proper Sunday around here. check out Louise's podcast as well no parental guidance it's really good fun to do it in the meantime thank you so much to Louise for being my lovely guest this week thank you to Claire Jones for producing and also happy birthday to Claire she's just had a big birthday and I will have mentioned this at some point over the years but Claire, producer Claire has so she's been with me on the podcast since day one I literally took her out for lunch before the podcast even existed and said I'm thinking of doing this podcast and I would love it if you would work with me and there was no plan B for me I really wanted to work with Claire and part of the reason for that is not just the fact that Claire has a wealth of expertise and is a very experienced producer but also she's a friend and not just my friend, my mum's friend too I met Claire through my mum she was working on a radio show with my mum and then moved into our house when I was a teenager as our lodger so she was in the next door bedroom to mine So I've known Claire since I was probably about 13, 14.

1:04:03And so how nice is it that I get to spend time with her now and celebrate her birthday with lots of other lovely friends last week. So shout out to you, Claire. She's been such a champion of what this podcast is about. Thank you to Ella May for the gorgeous artwork. Thank you to my husband, Richard, for giving up his weekend time to edit the podcast and put it together. Sorry, I'm always such a handing in my homework at the last minute with all my bits, but I kind of think it's quite nice really talking to you just before the podcast actually publishes. You know, keeps things in the here and now, doesn't it?

1:04:38Right, there will be another glorious guest for you next week. I'm going to continue working in the garden. That's me moving yet more stuff. I hope you have a lovely, lovely week and see you again soon. Thank you for lending me your ears. Take care. Bye.

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