AEW's Maxwell Jacob Friedman, better known as MJF, on the art of doing media as a pro wrestler

0:08Welcome to the sports media podcast. I'm your host Richard Deitsch. My producer is James Jackson. One guest on this episode, but if you are a fan of professional wrestling, this is a household name, Maxwell Jacob Friedman, better known as MJF, one of the most talented professional wrestlers in the world. He signed to All Elite Wrestling, better known as AEW. They have one of the biggest shows of the year coming up this Sunday, August 30th, AEW All-In in London. That's live from Wembley Stadium. The event will air around the world on pay-per-view, HBO Max pay-per-view, and myAEW.com. MJF will be part of the Men's Casino Gauntlet match, where the winner will get a shot at a future AEW World Championship match.

0:50Other big matches on their card include Kenny Omega vs. Will Ospreay and Willow Nightingale vs. Mercedes Monet for the AEW Women's World Championships. As you know on this podcast, we've had a number of wrestlers on from Rhea Ripley to Becky Lynch, Seth Rollins. Paul Heyman's been on this a million times. There are a few better people to talk to when it comes to how they look at media and sort of the art of media interviews. because the best pro wrestlers, and MJF is one of them, are masters at figuring out how to navigate that world. And with that, I bring in Maxwell Jacob Friedman. Welcome, Max.

1:26Ricky Dicky Dyche, it is a pleasure. I am excited. I'm ready to talk shop about business. As you know, a lot of professional wrestlers, they're very dumb. They're not bright. They're not well-educated. Most of them barely graduated middle school. Me, I am an incredibly educated businessman. I come from two parents who are both entrepreneurs. I understand the professional wrestling industry inside and out. I'm a student of the game, and I'm excited to answer any and all of your questions that a lot of my CTE brain-riddled contemporaries more than likely wouldn't be able to answer. So you shoot.

1:59I'll score, Dick. All right. Thank you, Max. Beautiful. I know you're an Islander fan, so I expect you to bring the Brian Trotter here, so this is good news. All right. Of course. All right. How much? Let's start here. How much or how little do you enjoy doing media? I love doing media because at the end of the day, the entire point of what we do is to build an audience. And you can't build an audience if you're not trying to engage new ears, new faces, new folks. So, for example, even if only five people listen to this, which I'd imagine is about how many, You know, that's five more people than we had yesterday potentially tuning in to dynamites and collisions, and that makes me a happy boy.

2:45I appreciate you doubling my audience, Max. Thank you. Absolutely. I'm a mensch like that. You are. All right. Something that's always fascinating to me, and I wonder when you get to your level in the business, you probably think about this differently than when you started. And when you started, I imagine you probably took every media request. How much say do you have in terms of picking and choosing when a media request comes in, whether you do it or not? Well, to be honest, Dick, if I don't want to do something, frankly, I just don't do it. I'm the biggest draw in my company. The biggest gates have been when I was on top.

3:18The biggest ratings have been when I was on top. Attendance, quarter hours, merchandise, you name it, I've done it. These are just facts. So quite frankly, if I don't want to be bothered with something, I'm not going to do it. But to me, it's not a bother trying to grow your audience because if we get down to brass tacks, besides the fact that I love professional wrestling and I love all elite wrestling, the reason that I love pro wrestling and all elite wrestling is because it's made me an incredibly rich man. And the more eyes we get on the product, the more people buying merchandise, the more money we're going to get, which means the more money I'm going to get when my contract goes up.

3:58There you go. It's pretty simple math Does your PR department Like how does it work in terms of requests They tell you what comes in I assume people do not contact you directly So the only person that is allowed to contact me directly In the PR department is Adam Hopkins Because he's the only one that's not a bumbling idiot Adam Hopkins, great guy And what happens is He only contacts me if he feels something is worthy of my status and stature So what I'm getting at here, Dick, is you should feel honored, and this is a big deal. Listen, I've been waiting for this all morning. I do not take your time for granted.

4:42I'm getting a chance to talk to one of the – I mean a generational talent. Let's be honest. Absolutely. Absolutely. Unquestionably. I know you've wrestled in Wembley before. 82 ,000 strong, main evented, and won. Yes, one of the biggest audiences. Well, first of all, it's the biggest pay-per-view audience ever in Europe. That's done and dusted. And I believe it's in the top three, like most people at a professional wrestling show of all time in the history of the sport, which is pretty wild considering the fact that professional wrestling is one of the oldest sports known to man. him do you does it have meaning for you to wrestle in what is one of the world's most famous sporting arenas sporting cathedrals so to me the the big professional wrestling check mark oh my god uh if you haven't made it there you haven't made it anywhere uh one of them is Wembley and if I were to go down the list you know Tokyo Dome in Japan uh obviously as a New York boy I have to say Madison Square Garden.

5:51Outside of that, you're looking at what is called like the Wrestling Cathedral, which is a beautiful arena, Mexico, which is in Mexico City. And then last, but certainly not least, is Wembley. I have had the distinct honor and privilege of being at Wembley not once but twice. I'm about to be there a third time. And there's just something about that venue that not only the wrestlers feel but even the marks in the audience feel it's a special place and when you walk into it immediately you're just hit with a wave of nostalgia whether you're a fan of music and it makes you think of queen or whether you're a fan of professional wrestling and it makes you think of you know Davey boy uh versus Brett uh the list goes on and on there's been so many crazy historic moments so you just know you're not just like making history like you're living in a moment in time and you know five years 10 years 15 20 years from now people are going to be talking about it because if something happens in Wembley people are talking about it forever yeah agreed I mean it's one of the great soccer uh soccer stadiums and in history.

7:15Tony Khan, of course, your boss, his family owns Fulham. When you are there, whether you're interested or not, I'm not sure, but has Tony made the offer to people in the company to go watch Fulham play live, given obviously he's the owner of that franchise? I am aware of a lot of the wrestlers that have gone to see the Fulham soccer team. My schedule is quite insane. When I'm not wrestling, I'm either on set to shoot a movie Or I'm auditioning to shoot one So my schedule's just been a little too crazy For extracurricular activities I got married within this calendar year Thank you Which took up a fair share of my time Outside of that Would I be interested in going to a Fulham game?

8:05It's not that I'm not interested I am just not educated enough on the sport of what the Europeans would call football and what I would call soccer. But I have definitely taken advantage of the fact that the Kahn family owns the Jacksonville Jaguars. I've been to two games, and I loved every second of it. Yeah, by the way, shout out to your wife, Alicia, who's also in the business. Tony Kahn, by the way, he called that the best winning ever. I assume you concur on that. Oh, my God, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. So when you are in London, and I'm assuming at least at some point maybe you're walking around, are you recognized by the Brits in the street?

8:49So here's the deal, and I'm not just saying this because I'm doing media. I'm saying it because it's a fact, right? People in this business, they call it the airport test. And what that means is do people turn their head when they see you, right? it has gotten to the point in my lifetime that no matter where I am I will get stopped and to me that's proof of how important all elite wrestling is because I have not come from any other machine the only legitimate real deal professional wrestling television exposure MJF has gotten is AEW and I've managed to become a household name by only being in AEW you um europe especially is very good to me in fact and i'll just state it i'm getting get paid fifty thousand dollars for an autograph signing that's coming up in the uk um and that's because the demand is wild enough for me to ask for that whereas uh with love and respect to some quote unquote hall of famers they'll be lucky if they make five thousand dollars at an autograph signing um and that's not the shit on five grand but to me it's nothing anyway the fact of the matter is is i have a very big following all around the world the problem though the problem is london as a whole the food tastes like actual dog shit and the people look like dogs so it's it's just a rough place to be.

10:27I try to get in and get out. You know, I think what I'm going to do is I've got an appearance in Scotland. I think I'm going to fly all the way back home. And then maybe on the day of the show, I'll fly in, I'll win the match and then I'll leave again. I just don't like being there. The people freak me out. They all talk funny. They have horrible teeth and their faces are terribly shaped and odd. And they, I'm just not into it. I'm not into the whole British thing. not for me if with given the 50k for just like one autograph appearance like can adam hopkins maybe get a nice bottle of wine for his work given given the you know the money that people that are important to me uh all get a hanukkah gift nice so i i would imagine hop is on that list all right december for hop there you go i like that all right um promotion is obviously a massive part of your i've asked every person who's been on in pro wrestling this question they always give me some pretty fascinating answers i know you will do the same promotion is obviously a massive part of your business how do you navigate interviews where some people want you in character some people want you to be in storyline and then other interviews like this one where they'd like you to talk about the business of wrestling or your professional career i can't speak for all the losers that have zero clue how to be PR trained or literate in interviews.

11:52For me, I don't have to get prepared to play a character because I'm not playing one. I'm MJF 24-7, 365. So there's no turning it up or turning it lower. I'm a professional at heart. If you're going to ask me intelligent questions, I'll give you intelligent answers. If you're

12:16And I'll make you feel stupid. And when the phone call and the interview is done, there's a high percentage of a chance no one will hear from you again because you decided to, I don't know, kill yourself. So everyone's different, obviously, Tricky Dicky. But for me personally, I don't get ready. I stay ready, which is precisely why I'm in the position I'm in in this industry. For someone who is starting out in the business, how much would you recommend or perhaps you would not recommend media training? so i had zero and i mean zero media training going into all elite wrestling and i was still better than everybody else was that assuredly talking about our product selling our product discussing our product however you know it's one thing if you want to be good but if you want to be great you should always train you should step up your game so i had actually adam hopkins getting brought up a lot in this interview, but I had sat down with Adam Hopkins and for about, I believe it was an hour, hour and a half, we had a one-on-one discussion about, you know, training, training, media training, understanding the ins and the outs of the things that you, you know, the do's and the don'ts.

13:29And, uh, to my credit, I'll pat myself on the back. I'd say I was about 95 % there. But that extra 5 % puts me in a realm that no one else is in present day. Also, the reason that I'm so comfortable and confident that I'm going to continue on this hot streak, if you will, of being on top of this industry is, and I don't know if you've recognized this as well, but the people, so I'm 30, which is in wrestling, I'm a baby, obviously, right? Every other top guy in my industry is 40s to 50s, which is interesting to say the least. So I've got another at minimum decade and a half of doing this. And what I've noticed about the talent that are younger than me is they are not good at talking.

14:23I mean, they seem uncomfortable at almost all times. They're awkward. They don't know what to do with their hands. It's very sad. But, you know, that just means more money for me because somebody's got to hold the microphone on national television and somebody's got to do PR for the company. Drink up, baby. Fantasy Football Happy Hour is here to get you wins and have some laughs. Matthew Berry here and my podcast, Fantasy Football Happy Hour, has the sleepers, busts, and starts and advice you need to win your league. We're diving into the tape. We're crunching the numbers to bring you sleepers.

15:00Bust weekly start-sit advice. Whether you're defending a title or desperately avoiding last place, I've got you covered every single weekday. The bar is open. It's Fantasy Football Happy Hour with Matthew Berry, wherever you get your podcasts. Yep. I listen to, I'm a big fan of Cornette's podcast with Brian Last. And a lot of times those guys, they'll take a year and they'll be like, okay, who are the 10 best wrestlers in 1994, under 30, under 20? When those guys eventually do The under 30 group For whatever time frame it is You will absolutely be On that list I'm not just putting you over here You have a ton of standing In my opinion When people are talking about successful wrestlers Under 30 You will be very very high on that list in any year You're a sweet man But I would hope so Because in my humble opinion I feel truly I'm the most complete and the best professional wrestler in the world today regardless of my age but when you put my age into it then you know at that point it's just unfair and i'm just lapping everyone 10 times over understood um when you are answering questions from the mainstream press i'll consider myself in that let's say you know i don't i'll allow it yeah cnn wants to talk to you the today show wants to talk to you are you answering differently versus a wrestling publication like wrestling observer calls you or i would say so So to me, there's two different types of media.

16:29There's the type of media where you're smelling your own farts. And what by that I mean is this. You're not building a new audience doing this. You're strictly appealing and talking to people that are already watching your show. So you can use more terms that are insider, perhaps, that people that are outside the bubble of the fart sniffing don't know, right? Like on your, on this interview, on this particular interview, I'm not going to use as many, excuse me, insider terms, if you will. I'm not going to gloss over things without it going into a deeper explanation of what I am saying. Because the goal with an interview like this, as we said at the top of the show here, is to get people to tune in that haven't tuned in before.

17:17So yes, if I'm talking to like an absolute geek, for example, like a Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful, I am not, there is no part of me that feels the need to explain anything that's coming out of my mouth or go into deep detail because these people probably, they know everything about anything when it comes to professional wrestling and that's all well and good because so do I, but not everybody's like that. All right. So here, I'll use a wrestling term and you're welcome to blast me if you wish. Do you find people who are in the wrestling press to be marks versus those who are in the mainstream press to be marks or is everybody a mark?

17:56I'll be honest. Everyone's a mark and everyone can get got and everyone can be sold and everyone can fall in love with this to the highest of high levels. The the only thing is, is how do they fall in love with it? How are they guided to the world of professional wrestling? How are they brought in? Right. The first time you sat down and watched, for example, a baseball game, was it your father that introduced you to baseball? Was it your mother? Was it your grandfather? Right? So there are people out there who their childhood had a lot of pro wrestling in it. And then they got older and they, they slowly, but surely became a lapsed fan.

18:36And now it's like, okay, all lead wrestling. People are talking about AEW. I'm not too over the moon with the other products. Let me give this a try. Right? So I think everybody's a Mark. It's just, uh, they're either a Mark in waiting in dormant or they're, They're a mark that's already here with us. You'll appreciate this. My first wrestling show ever, Nassau Coliseum. Well, there you go. I'm one of the only people in the modern era, which is we're going to talk business here. Here's a fact. Prior to MJF versus Samoa Joe at the Nassau Coliseum, sold it out, by the way, no professional wrestling event had sold out Nassau Coliseum, not a live event by us or WWE or anybody since I believe it was the late 80s.

19:23Wow. So, and I took a lot of pride in that. And then magically, magically, somehow WWE decided to do Saturday night's main event in my arena after I sold it out. So I just thought that was interesting. Yes. But, you know, that's business, baby. You got to keep moving and shaking. That's Nick Khan and Triple H trying to play with your rep. I'm with you on that. I respect it. Yeah. Yeah. I respect the game, I guess. All right. Something that you are very good at is social media. You have significant followings, whether it's Instagram, X, etc. Max, how do you think about social media in relation to getting your message out, promotion, etc.?

20:06Look, I think there's actually a fine line. I watch some wrestlers and I feel they're on there too much. And then there are other wrestlers that are not on there enough. You need to be on there enough for brand awareness. But if you're on there too much, then you feel like less of a star. If you're too accessible, right, then you're not a megastar. But if you're not accessible at all, then you're not giving people the opportunity to know you're a megastar. So there's definitely a fine line there, and I'd like to think that I walk it. Do you have any thoughts on – I mean I see this a lot. Sometimes it's real.

20:37Other times it's a total work in terms of getting into fights, whether that's with another wrestler or with some publication or some fan who comes at you. You know, everybody treats social media differently. For me personally, I always cringe when people use it like it's a diary. But I have definitely multiple times in my life gotten to real arguments and altercations on social media because unlike a lot of people, I'm just being me. I'm being 110 % authentic. so for example if Andrade Alidolo wants to take to social media and claim that he's going to win this casino gauntlet contract that's offensive to me this is my match to win so obviously I'm going to have something to say about that but if some guy with five followers goes uh MJF's the shits you know what you really I'm sorry but that's not really getting to me you know what I I mean, now, of course, there have been times where discourse about me is going to put a chip on my shoulder.

21:47But I think that's a healthy thing. You know, I can't speak for everybody. But when people doubt me, it's something that I'm capable of using as fuel and as energy. Whereas a lot of people, they'll read stuff like that. They'll turn into a ball like an armadillo. and they're all they want to shove their head into the ground like an ostrich and just hide I'm more so for whatever reason I don't know if it's because of how I was raised I don't know it's because I'm a New York Jew whatever um my my first line of defense is I'm going to take this and I'm going to use this as fuel to be better than the person who's shitting on me today to such a degree that if they ever see me in person they're going to apologize to me and if they don't apologize to me, then I get to slap around a little bit.

22:37But bottom line being, I like to use hate as fuel. That's fuel that I put in my gas tank. I like that. It's very Kobe Bryant. All right. A couple more here. How much, if at all, do you care about getting if you get bad press? You know what? I think every wrestler should care to a degree because as an athlete, you're a representative of your company. So I care in that sense. Now, it depends what the bad press is, right? If I know something's absolutely fucking ridiculous, I'm not going to like live by the sword, die by the sword. If something's so out of left field and so obviously fake, I'm not going to care.

23:17But if I do something honest to God, that's bad, and then it gets reported, I don't know if I should be mad at the people reporting it, or I should really be more so mad at myself right and luckily um never in the history of my career here in aew have i done something to make the company look bad um now there's there's assuredly been a time or two where there's been bullshit stories made up but that comes with the territory of being a a highly rated professional wrestler, household name, an athlete, an actor, people are going to be looking for things, right? I remember growing up in my house, my mother was always reading, it's called People Magazine.

24:03And, you know, it was right next to the toilet, so you couldn't avoid it. And, you know, the front of the cover, Johnny Depp in six-person relationship, whatever, right? Whatever cockamamie. So, like, that's always going to be there. There's not much you can do about that, but the best thing you can do is try to be the best representative possible for your promotion. This is a question that sort of plays on the same tangent. You are obviously a very, very popular figure in an entertainment vehicle, in a sport that is very popular globally. Multi-billion dollar industry. Exactly. So there probably will be times when some person, whether they're in traditional media or not, will ask you a question, whether it's political, whether it's societal, where if you go down that road, you could offend somebody based on your answer.

24:58How do you navigate when questions come up that are not about the business, that are not about storyline, and that may be about something where you could alienate part of the population based on how you personally feel? You know, it's funny. I think you only alienate people if you have bad takes. You know, I feel that for the most part, I'm a centrist. I don't think I have any extreme political ideologies, right? I just think that my stances are correct because I'm smarter than everyone else. So when I'm asked these questions, if you don't agree with what I'm saying, the only person you're offending are smart people because you're dumb if you don't agree with what I'm saying.

25:41I respect that. All right. We have seen a number of pro wrestlers dip their toes into my world. Seth Rollins, for instance, has done a lot of NFL networks. He's a fantastic football analyst. I don't think he gets enough credit, frankly. I happen to agree with you. Tony Schiavone, somebody you know, he once called the Gwinnett Brady. Horrible. Horrible. Yeah. Very bad at his job. Bad. Yeah. It's a good cut. Joe Tessitore calls WWE one week, and then the next week he's doing college football. Yes. You are a fan of the Giants, the Mets, the Islanders. You played high school football. I know you have designs on acting in addition to pro wrestling.

26:23But to me, you are someone I think who could follow Rollins and do some traditional sports commentary stuff does that have any interest for you you know what the thing that i'm laser focused on right now is acting outside of the wrestling bubble and i've got violent night 2 which is a universal picture it'll be in every single movie theater coming to you on december 4th and i've got a very meaty role in it i've got a lot of other irons in the fire listen i'm the type of cat where i'm a man of many hats and if i wanted to do i think i could absolutely do that and knock it out of the park. Yes. But I'm also the type of person that if I'm doing something, um, I will not stop until I absolutely conquer that goal.

27:05My goal, uh, since I was pretty much four was to become a household professional wrestling name. And now my goal at 30 years old is to become a household name as an actor. Uh, and I'm not going to stop until that happens. Now, if, if, and when I make that goal happen, I might turn around and go, you know what? I think it's time for me to uh do some college football commentary i'm not saying that's not within the realm of possibility but right now at the moment i i've got my eyes on the prize when it comes to cinema i'm looking at this this cast kristin bell is in this and i kind of love this joe pantaleono joe pantaleone joey pants great guy oh yeah yeah who is who whose filmography is unbelievable.

27:50It's insane. Yeah, Matrix, Goonies, Sopranos. Yeah, the guy's been in it all. And also, just so happens to be the loveliest, nicest human being. I love that. What was really cool for me is after the first take we did together, I could tell he was a good guy because he was letting me pick his brain. And I'm the type of cat, whether it's the wrestling world or the reacting world, As far as trying to learn As a sponge If you give me an inch I'll take a mile I will literally chew your ear off Until I feel like I get Every ounce of juice I can squeeze out of you of knowledge Of whatever the space is And to his credit he never got sick of Me juicing And he never ran out of juice So I really enjoyed my time with him on set It's a little before your time Max But phenomenal and risky business As the villain And Midnight Run Had a very memorable role In the De Niro Grodin film Incredible And the rest of the cast is great too We got Daniel Melanchoyer And we got King Batch Who is this He's going from being a massive Social media star Talking about social media To now being genuinely a great actor And being in some really Really great stuff And then Harbor Obviously being the leader of the cast You might know him either from Stranger Things or the Avengers.

29:17I mean, the guy's a bona fide star. So it was truly Jared Harris who was insane in Chernobyl. If anyone wants to watch a great drama, please watch Chernobyl. So, yeah, it was an embarrassment of riches for sure. Very similar to the AEW locker room being an embarrassment of riches. But see how good I am at this? It's insane. That's good. But yeah, it was a very good experience. Last one on movies for me. There have been many people who have obviously made that transition. There's a ton of professional wrestlers who have done that. If we're being honest, three. Who are you saying? Like Rock Cena Batista?

29:57Yes. Now, there's been plenty of guys who have been in one-off stuff, right? Like to me, I know it's old school, but I love Piper and they live. He was phenomenal. Of course. Of course. The problem was hell comes to Frogtown. But They Live was a masterpiece. And, you know, I don't know if you're aware of this, but Piper is one of my all-time favorites. I'm very aware. Okay. And a guy that I've tried to pattern a lot of my career after. And the one thing I look back upon, I just get so angry that Terry Bollea had more play in Hollywood than, you know, Piper did. Because I personally feel Piper was a much better actor.

30:39Yeah, no offense to Terry Bollea. RIP to both, right? Yeah, but he was not, I mean, his most memorable role is Rocky III, and he barely had any lines in that. He was not a good actor. No, not great. But, and that's my thing is I would like to, you know, I want to break in. I want to be that fourth name on the Mount Rushmore of pro wrestlers turned actors, and I'm going to make it happen. All right, I like that. All right, I got four more for you. I mentioned earlier that I'm a big fan of Cornette's podcast I admire what Conrad Thompson has done building his podcast empire Are you someone who listens regularly to any of these wrestling podcasts Because you are obviously content on a lot of these I'm out of my mind I listen to everything I listen to literally everything I listen to The Observer I listen to Cornette I listen to Fightful I listen to Selfmade I listen to WrestlePurist Wow I'm all the way up and down, right?

31:41Post-wrestling, I listen to all of it. And the way I look at it is this. I look at it the same way I would look at Fox News, MSNBC, CNN. I watch stuff that I don't necessarily agree with. Because that's how you learn. How am I supposed to learn what wrestling fans want or need if I'm not willing to listen to every single wrestling fan's outlook? That's dumb. That's stupid, right? That's why, you know, me and my grandma get into it. Sometimes we, we both, we both share the same political, uh, ideation. I'm not going to get into what my politics are, but she, she only watches one news station. And I'm like, that's ridiculous.

32:22If, if I just, if I just sugarcoat myself and make myself feel all warm and fuzzy inside, because I'm watching people that only exclusively agree with my beliefs, I'm not getting any smarter. I'm not learning anything new, right? What if I watch something on the other news channel that I think stupid, but they challenge me and they make me think for even a split second, well, even though I don't agree, I can see why your standpoint, why you've reached that standpoint and that stance. And I think that's kind of what's wrong with, now I'm really getting on a tangent here, but I think that's what's wrong with humanity right now is is is everybody has decided this is my box i'm staying in this box stay away from my box if you don't agree with everything that's in this box uh go to your go get your own box whereas you know and i'm not saying it was always the case but i remember there was a time when when when we were able to just talk and i don't know if it stopped because of the pandemic and people were insulated.

33:27Honestly, this is my hypothesis. You're on it. I think we were insulated. We were alone. We were scared. We had no one to talk to. Some of us were really alone. Some people in that COVID pandemic, they didn't have a wife or kids or a girlfriend, nothing. So they're held up alone with their own thoughts to go absolutely stir crazy. So by the time they're let out of their house, they've got all this pent up aggression. Right. And, and it bums me out because I remember a time, especially in America, where no matter what somebody's, uh, religion, uh, political beliefs, ideology, eligible, uh, sports teams, right.

34:10We're seeing people getting fistfights now more than ever at sporting events. It's crazy. Um, I wish people could talk to each other more, but if I'm being so so frank with you at the same time i don't because it's making me a lot of money um so so maybe i don't want it to get fixed because it's working great for me yeah tribalism above all now in the u.s which is not very healthy for society and also i see it too like aew fans look at wwe fans as like you know it's like us versus them one thing i've always appreciated about you you've said you've been very consistent in all these interviews you take people a little bit behind the curtain be like if i see a wwe person i'm not looking to fight them i'm friends with a lot of these people we're all in the same business like you yeah don't be a mark and somehow think that like if i see somebody at one of these places like i don't like them so i appreciate if you like if you like aew more than wwe and there are a lot of people that feel that way that doesn't mean that you have to shit on wwe right i i i you don't need to make think pieces online about why, you know, WWE sucks, make think pieces online about why AEW is better, right?

35:21Whatever those, whatever those logical reasons are, right? Whether it's because you get more bang for your buck with pay-per-views or because our matches are better or because, you know, our rivalries are better or because MJF is better looking than any top guy in the other promotion. There's so many different things, right? But that doesn't mean that you have to attack the other side. Just put your side over. Yeah, agreed. All right. Final three. AEW Dynamite airs Wednesday from 8 to 10 on Eastern TBS simulcast on HBO Max. AEW Collision airs every Saturday from 8 to 10 on TNT simulcast on HBO Max.

35:57At this point, you're signed. You're a made guy in that promotion. But I am curious, how much in your position are you following, and do you care about television viewership and ratings? I care deeply, and it's something that I keep a lot of track on. and it's, I have to as a top guy in the promotion and, and also as the biggest draw in the history of promotion. Again, that's not a feeling that's a fact, right? So here's, here's a fact. When I won the world title at the tail end of 2025, we were doing 400 K on cable. And at the end of my world title reign, we were, we were getting very close to 800 K on cable.

36:36Now, if you include streaming that means we were doing as much or potentially more than fucking smackdown that's a big deal right that is a massive deal um and and right now we're still fucking killing it um year over year as far as ratings go we are in so such such such so much more of a better place and i do believe that's because of the fact right that there are wwe fans tna fans mlw fans that perhaps they were disenfranchised with their product and they said you know what let me try this AEW thing out and when they tuned in they got a lot of me and when you get a lot of MJF no one's going anywhere why would you it's the best thing in the world so uh yes I pay a lot of attention to ratings ticket sales pay-per-view buy rates these are things that are very important to me and while I respect the athletes in my company that are more so concerned with what fucking move they're going to hit to me that doesn't move the needle right so i'm i'm most concerned about needle moving last two um and this has been again i know that you are a student of all this and like you just mentioned you're listening to every podcast so this this this you're a great person to ask this busted open radio uh i did listen to busted open as a matter of fact i used to be a part of the intro correct correct i am no longer part of the intro because unfortunately it is now a propaganda machine for one company and that's it you just were answering my question it's now under the wwe radio umbrella it's not it's not real journalism and i love by the way i fucking i don't have enough nice things to say about dave lagreca i i went on dave lagreca show when i was an mlw at the tender age of 18 and that motherfucker was doing his show in a broom closet i shit you not it was a broom closet with a sound machine and two headsets and he went from that to to becoming one of the most listened to professional wrestling podcast radio stations in the world of all time and i'm so proud of him for that now he had an option of continuing to do what exactly he was doing or to grab the bag.

38:55And I respect, listen, I'm a businessman myself. He grabbed that bag with both hands from WWE. He said, thank you, sir. And now it's WWE radio. Are you going to hear them talk about AEW? Probably not. Are you going to hear them talk about AEW ever again outside of saying AEW bad? Probably not. Will they talk about MJF singularly? Probably. I'm too big of a deal to fucking ignore. Um, am I disappointed in Dave LaGreca? No, he did the right thing for him and his family, him and Violetta. But at the end of the day, um, is he a journalist anymore? I would say yes, in the sense of the fact that he's a journalist.

39:35Um, but he's only a journalist for now TNA because TNA has a partnership with WWE and WWE, right? And possibly MLW because they're not afraid of MLW usurping them in any way. Do I think it's ridiculous that they're afraid of us usurping them? WWE? Yeah, a little bit. Do I think it's a little fucking funny that you're running a show in Chicago the exact same time we're running a show in Chicago? Yeah, a little bit. But as I've stated before, Dick, you know, it makes sense. I understand it. It's a business tactic. I'm not mad at it. But the last thing you're going to do, to me, if other wrestling fans want it to happen to them, that's fine if they want to play dumb and play coy.

40:16But you're not going to spit in my fucking face And tell me it's raining You're not going to tell me you're WWE radio But we're still going to call it right down the line That's not a thing It's just not a thing I appreciate you being Ken I was going to ask you Because they've sort of indicated that They're going to talk about other places I'm sure they will Succinctly, efficiently, fast I'm sure they will But they're not going to go in depth anymore And quite frankly once they knew they had that deal, we were, listen, we're white hot right now. Year over year in every single metric of business, we are doing better than we did the last two to three years by a wide margin.

41:00Now, was that something they were discussing in January, February, and March? Absolutely. Did they magically stop doing that once they may or may have not realized they were going to have a business dealing with WWE? Who's to say, Dick? Who's to say? But is it something I noticed? Yeah, maybe You're obviously not getting onto Sirius Because I'm sure WDOB signed some kind of exclusive deal Oh, listen Me and LaGreca are very tight And I do firmly believe if I called them up And I said, Dave, I want to give you an interview First of all, besides the fact that we're tight Every single time I've gone in his show They clip it and it does the best The best views that they get You will get on But what I was going to say is Is there any value for Tony to figure out I mean, it'll create some kind of audio company of his own where you guys then call it AEW whatever, radio, AEW podcasting, and you just try to create the same thing away from what they're doing with Sirius.

41:57So I don't want to speak at a turn, but I will foreshadow. I think that's a great idea, Dick, and I wouldn't be shocked if you find out more about that idea down the line. I love that. All right. Last one. Whenever I have had a wrestler on, what always happens is the stuff gets aggregated like immediately. But whenever this comes out, I'm not even going to have time to sort of post it on my own social channels because it'll already be up. Yes. It's fascinating. And I want to ask a guy again, one of the top guys in the business. Why is that? Because I work in sports and it is not like that. If I had LeBron James on, I'll be very candid, Mac.

42:32If I had LeBron James on, you would get aggregated faster than whatever LeBron told me. I think wrestling fans are the most. And it's just, again, you want to talk about facts, not feelings. I think wrestling fans are the most passionate professional fans for any sport, really anything in the world. I think that's truly what it comes down to. And I think that's why professional wrestling is, it's about as American as apple pie. When you think of one of the first things that was ever televised in people's living rooms, it was wrestling. It was us, right? It's been a huge part of culture. It's been a huge part of the zeitgeist.

43:12and we'll continue to be because professional wrestling is very special and professional wrestling fans are very special, but you know who the most special person is Dick me. And if you want to watch me, you can watch me on August 30th at all in Wembley stadium. When I, your one true champion, when the casino gauntlet, uh, battle Royal, thank you very much for your time, Dick. It's been an absolute pleasure. Maxwell, Jacob Friedman, better known as MJF, one of the most talented wrestlers in the world. Sunday, August 30th, AEW All-In in London. That's live from Wembley Stadium. You can catch that on Pay-Per-View, HBO Pay-Per-View, as well as myAEW.com.

43:51As he said, MJF, part of the Men's Casino Gauntlet match. Winner gets a shot at future AEW World Championship match. I have no doubt that Max will be getting that match for sure. And then check out some other very big matches on the card, including Omega vs. Ospreay and Willow Nightingale vs. Mercedes-Monaise. Max, it has been a pleasure. Thank you. I can't wait for it to be aggregated And for everybody to pretend that we always Only discussed exclusively other promotions And not my own I will talk to you soon Thank you Max Bye

44:25Okay here we go 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 Alright back in the studio my thanks to MJF He's a total professional You know never fun to get called dick A hundred times but you know You got to roll with the gimmick, and I appreciate him very much. Very, very talented person at what he does. So if you're into pro wrestling, check out AEW's Big Card on Sunday. Previous podcast or roundtable before this one, who's the face of ESPN? Me and the guys from Sports Media Watch, we dissected that because a lot of people are now saying McAfee is the face of ESPN over Stephen A. Smith, but the real answer that we came up with, the games are the face of ESPN.

45:05Ultimately, inventory is what they sell, and everything around it is just leading you or trying to get you to the games. Jason Hare, the director of The Last Dance on his newest film, Novak Djokovic, The Wolf in Winter. That was last week as well. We did some Premier League stuff with Pierre Moussa, coordinating producer of NBC's coverage of the Premier League. Obviously, we've talked a lot about Romo on this podcast. Linda Cohn and Neil Everett were on this podcast on July 30th. So if you're into those former ESPNers who are continuing in the media, check that out. And then if you're into women's basketball, we've done a ton of stuff on the WNBA, including on July 6th, Gino Auriemma, the famed UConn coach, was on this podcast.

45:49I want to thank James Jatson for all his hard work. I know he's excited about probably the Phillies making their run as a Philadelphia guy. And he does obviously starting very, very soon. I want to thank everybody at Odyssey for their support thank you most of all thank you for listening we'll see you soon on the Sports Media Podcast