The Dennis Miller Era of Monday Night Football.

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2:17Welcome to the Sports Media Podcast. I'm your host, Richard Deitch. My producer is James Jackson. And one guest on this episode, it's an excellent filmmaker who's really made a very, very fun documentary that I highly recommend. Jeff Cameron is the director and producer of the upcoming HBO original documentary and NFL films production, Miller night football, which chronicles comedian Dennis Miller's time in the Monday night football broadcast booth in 2000. He of course worked without Michaels and Dan Fouts. There'll probably be people listening to this who were not around or alive when Dennis Miller was on Monday Night Football.

2:53But I can assure you, someone who worked at Sports Illustrated at the time, it was a very, very big deal and felt revolutionary. The doc debuts on HBO Max on September 29th, part of the first in a series of 2026 NFL shorts. I will add Jeff Cameron works for NFL Films and has done a lot of excellent work there. And we will get into that. And with that, I bring in Jeff Cameron. Jeff, welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like I should do a Dennis Miller impression, like, welcome, babe, or something like that. And I'll note that, I mean, who knew Jeff was this big? But there's a rep listening on the line, Madison Tobin of DDA.

3:32So, Jeff, I only thought Ken Rogers, Jeff, from NFL Films, had handlers. But it's exciting that you're this big now. I inherited his detail.

3:46All right. So here we go. But this feels to me like a project someone has wanted to do for a long time. It's really kind of like a fun cross-cultural project that morphs entertainment in the NFL. So I would imagine – this is my guess. You can tell us the story – that people have taken a shot at Dennis for many, many years. How did this come about, and how did you convince Dennis that this was the right time to sort of do this retrospective? Yeah. I think, you know, to your point, he has kind of removed himself from the spotlight a little bit. No one has really heard or seen from him in the last few years, at least.

4:25I will say when we initially approached him, I think we got a similar response to other people. It sounds like SI back in the day where he, you know, it's no secret. This move, this era of Mariah football consistently goes down as one of the biggest broadcasting blunders of all time. Right. It's it's it's it's a an example of what not to do if you're in sports broadcasting. It's that that's kind of the reputation that it has. So I think when he gets an approach talking about this era, I think his initial reaction is I'm not going to be your monkey. I'm not going to take take part in that. We kind of explain this.

5:06This is an honest portrait. You know, we're not going to sugarcoat it. We're not going to celebrate it in something that it wasn't, but we're going to kind of relive it and maybe reexamine it in a way that people maybe don't remember. Or maybe this was better than it gets credit for. We're not going to take cheap shots. We're going to interview the right people and do it in the right way. And I think that's what appealed to him. That's what ultimately got him on board, I think. Yeah, no, and I think in hindsight, and we'll get into this a little bit, that I think there was an overreaction to it.

5:41It would not feel today. We can even get into this for the moment. What's interesting to me is, you're correct, in the time that it happened, 2000, it did feel like, oh my God, they're changing the Monday Night Football booth. They're bringing entertainment into this. Sports broadcasting is quote-unquote sacrosanct, right? Now we're bringing this comedian in. If you did this in 2026, literally no one would blink. The world has changed so much where these – you know what I'm saying? These sacrosanct things don't happen. I mean whether you agree with politics or not. There's a reality show person who's running the country.

6:16The world has just changed a lot. And so I wonder as a filmmaker, you probably found that really interesting that in the course of essentially a quarter century, people would never see this today the way they did back then. Right. What's crazy to me is that if you consider the outrage that surrounded this decision back 25 years ago, now you look at the Manning cast. This is a Monday night football broadcast in which comedians are specifically brought on to make jokes and comment on the game alongside the two commentators. It's a three-man booth once again with comedians very frequently. I always thought that was interesting.

6:53I brought that up to Dennis and the interview subjects that are in the film. And there was sort of this consensus agreement that, yeah, this was kind of in a way ahead of its time in that regard. Did you do the interviews with Dennis? I did. How long did you get him for? What was the course of – sometimes, having had many documentarians on this podcast, sometimes it's like a two-hour interview at somebody's home. Sometimes you're doing it over the course of weeks, and then you'll go back and re-interview and stuff. What was it like here? So Dennis was extremely gracious with his time and his home.

7:32We actually were able to interview him at his home. So he offered up his living room space. We initially requested three hours. Again, short documentary, so we didn't have to be too, too long. We got to the three-hour mark, and we weren't quite done. And I asked him if he was okay, and he said he was having such a good time kind of reliving this era that he ended up giving us four hours. It was a really enjoyable experience with him. When he looks back on this now, and the documentary, if you watch it, you'll sort of see that he wasn't very happy that it was being removed. There was a change in producer, and that was pretty significant and part of the reason why Dennis ended up leaving.

8:14Not to mention, obviously, that they brought in John Madden, so they totally changed the whole booth. But has time, Jeff, in your opinion – does Dennis see the era differently now in 2026 than let's say had you interviewed him in five years after this happened kind of thing? I think so. I think there was some ill feelings there when it first ended. And Al Michaels speaks to it in the doc. Al felt that Dennis kind of held it against Al that he didn't go to bat for him in a way that we all know he couldn't do with John Madden. coming on board. Um, but yeah, but between Dennis and Howard Katz, who was the president of ABC sports at the time, um, Dennis and Fred Cadelli and Al, I think there was some, there was some tension, um, in, in the immediate aftermath of, of the firing and what happened.

9:05Um, but I think 25 years later talking to Dennis, um, he very much sees this as a, as a lily pad along his, his great career that he's had. And I think he looks upon it very, very fondly. Um, there was interesting thing he brought up when I asked him about the ratings and whether or not in the middle of this run, if he ever paid attention or was ever bothered by the fact that half the country didn't like this and ratings continued to go down, if that ever wore on him. And he said, you know, it's what he calls lump in the armpit problems. You know, there are problems and TV ratings and audience approval.

9:45And then one morning you're in the shower and you find a lump in your armpit and and now you have real problems and and you know your wife goes weren't you complaining about ratings or that and no all that kind of falls by the wayside so yeah he has good perspective um on this era and like i said i think enough time has passed and he i think he is is good friends with dan still he and al obviously repaired any any ill feelings that were um that were there right away but um he has nothing but good things uh to say about that era now There are a lot of reasons Chicago homeowners have chosen Four Seasons since 1971.

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10:51Hey, football fans. It's Von Miller, Dallas Cowboys linebacker and host of the Free Range Podcast. Come hang out with me and my guy TJ Banks as we give you the best analysis, insights, and guest interviews from around the league each and every week. New episodes drop each and every Wednesday. Be sure to follow or subscribe to Free Range wherever you get your podcast.

11:19You want to go back for a second just in terms of in real time when it was going on. You obviously and your your group did the research on this. And within the doc, there's a when you watch it, you'll even see like, you know, articles about Dennis being hired very quickly and sort of what the writers thought. And then obviously when the ratings came out, people were commenting. When you went back, Jeff, and did the research on this, what are your takeaways on how people reacted to it when it was announced in 2000? I think I mean I think you you kind of hit it um when you said it was it was modern football was considered kind of sacrosanct and the idea that they would kind of bring this this non-football voice into this this almost religious institution if you will that is modern right football um there was there was legitimate legitimate outrage um but at the same time it was like doing the research right down the middle 50 50 some people were welcome of this new idea um i mean not for nothing he was a very very people like i think people forget he was a popular really popular comedian at the time his show on hbo was a very very highly rated show he had a following um this is not too far removed from saturday night live and he was still doing hbo comedy specials um so this is you know this is a top comedian of the era so half the people loved it and then i think the more diehard fans were wondering what a comedian was doing on their their football broadcast when you when you were whiteboarding this and thinking about who you're going to talk to you obviously have to talk to dennis al michaels uh dan fouts because that's the booth you talked to fred gudelli obviously who came in as the producer after don olmeyer um for monday night football howard katz was part of this um but i want to just get into your thinking like um was there a part of you that maybe thought about at least for a little bit like hey maybe we'll talk to the, maybe we'll talk to athletes or the NFL players at the time and like how they thought about that or, or coaches, you know, did you want to talk to reporters at the time who were covering this?

13:26What was the sort of thought process in terms of, okay, when I'm thinking about the, the talking heads that I want for this, for this piece, who's going to be on it? Yeah. Um, I think with the nature of a short documentary, I, we always knew this was going to be 40 minutes, sub 40 minutes. So just in terms of real estate, I knew there wasn't a lot of space for a chorus of voices. And personally, I always kind of prefer a smaller amount of voices. So you see the faces, you know the voices when you're hearing it. It's not just new faces constantly popping up at you throughout a documentary. So it was a consideration.

14:03And even Eric Dickerson doesn't appear as an interviewer. We reached out. We couldn't make that that works schedule wise unfortunately um but it was important to get the other the other broadcasters on um and you know even it's funny even talking to melissa stark who was is fantastic yeah very good so gracious coming down to nfl films for the interview um it was her she was 26 at the time you know and she she was telling me it was her first first time on monday football this is a huge break for her so even even she was so hyper focused on kind of her career and what she was doing on the sideline that even um you know even though dennis was in her ear and in the microphone she she was kind of hyper focused on herself so i'm not sure what other athletes or coaches would have would have brought because of you know everyone being so focused on what they were doing at the time it's a great point and actually melissa stark is an interesting story that year as well 26 year old right coming on to uh monday night football and again that's pretty young but from what i seem to remember it's not everybody didn't sort of love that hire as well So Dennis – you know what I'm saying?

15:08It wasn't – yes, people were focused on Dennis because he was a famous comedian. But there were other things going on with Monday Night Football at that time as well. I mean she replaced a legend, right? Exactly. Leslie Visser. And you're right. That was a side story to this new Ohlmeyer regime, if you will. But again, short documentary. This was kind of narrowly focused on Dennis. So we didn't explore that avenue. But yeah, that was part of this. How many people worked on this? When it comes to a doc that's going to go 40 minutes or so, what's your production group staffing-wise? Sure. So I directed, produced, and I edited alongside.

15:48I had an editing partner. His name was Chris Weaver. He did a fantastic job. And then for our interviews, every interview was two cameras. Dennis was three. So we had our director of photography, Phil Gushu. He did all the interviews. or most of them, I should say. But pretty tight on the production side. Wow. And then in terms of from conception to completion, like how long does something like this take? Again, given, as you've mentioned, it is a shorter film length than, you know, somebody who's doing a, you know, 97-minute, 108-minute sports documentary. Yeah. We interviewed Dennis, Dana, Al, and David Israel, the uh the coordinating producer yep all on the same week um we did a trip out to california and just kind of made our way down the coast that was late april and um editing took place july into august and then post-production started probably early you know late late august one of the great things about this stock might be my favorite thing about this stock is it's a reminder of some of the things dennis miller said on air that are incredible i'll just give listeners a couple of things like maybe the most famous thing he said was i haven't seen that much fabric since cristo wrapped the pont newf in paris which is an unbelievable reference to say in an on an nfl game i mean jeff i would think that to me i'll give a couple more to the listeners a second that to me must have been the most fun part of your job doing this is just seeing some of the stuff that he actually said and was able to get on the airwaves of an nfl game it was incredible For a few weeks of my spring summer, I was just – I'd come to work and I'd watch Monday Night Football broadcasts and just log and organize everything Dennis said.

17:41And when I tell you I have categories for all his art references and his geography references and ancient Rome, like there are sequences upon sequences of all these topics and areas of things he would joke about. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, he drops a Neville Chamberlain line, which again I loved, which is unbelievable. And then this was another one at the time that really got a lot of attention. I'm not sure there's such a thing as minor groin surgery. Anybody who has a sharp instrument around my genitalia, I'm thinking it's major. Again, that's one line where I think if – I mean it's not going to happen.

18:18Troy Aikman says that today. That would get a lot of attention. one of my favorite ones that i didn't have room for uh 2000 i think uh broncos raiders and this was a stretch in which uh the raiders hadn't beaten the broncos in a while uh mike shanahan was the coach of the broncos at the time and during his opening monologue um so he's on camera and he goes um shanny beats on al davis like buddy rich on a snare drum when he when he knew Gene Krupa was standing in the back of the room. Wow. There's a lot going on with that reference. All right, a couple more here for you. One of the things that I think is sort of a subtext of your documentary, which is pretty interesting, is that 9-11 happens within all this, correct?

19:07So Dennis, he's brought on in 2000. It's my chronology right then. His second year is when 9-11 happens. And if everything changes because – for him in many ways because where he's brought in to provide some levity or to provide some intellectual comedy, nobody in the country wanted comics at that moment. I mean I remember like there was a whole – it sort of went away very quickly, but there was this whole debate like is comedy dead forever? No one's ever going to go to a comedy club again. No one's ever going to have like that kind of humor again. And I would have to think, Jeff, and I wanted to get your opinion on this.

19:48In some way, whether subtly or overt, that really cut him off because he couldn't – you know what I'm saying? The country was at a different place where they didn't want a comedian anywhere, let alone their football. Yeah, I think you're spot on. Obviously, we just marked the 25th anniversary. And I actually was watching some of the old late night monologues at the time and it was this very hesitant, everyone was hesitant to kind of jump back into making fun of things. And I think Melissa Stark said it best in the docs. She says, how do you be funny? People didn't want their sport to be made fun of.

20:26This is something that brought them together. This is something they wanted to kind of watch to take their mind off things. So I think, and then there were a couple of other things happening with that at the time. He was more interested in becoming more of a football guy, as Howard Kassel lays out. Obviously, Fred Goodelli wasn't Don Allmeyer. They didn't have the same relationship that Don and Dennis had. So there were a few things that all kind of came together in 2001, 9-11 certainly being one of them. There was something in the documentary that I really took note of when Fred Goodelli says, I really tried to convince him to do halftime.

20:59you know we'd have a traditional booth have dennis do halftime and gudeli was like i thought that would be great i happen to agree with gudeli i think if dennis and i understand you know it's very hard easy for me to say here you go from the booth to you know where you're on all game to just halftime where you're on 10 15 minutes but everything would have tracked on that because they once again would have been way ahead of the curve in doing like um hbo style commentary you You know what I'm saying? At halftime. I think that would have killed. And I think Dennis would have been on for a decade.

21:31But Dennis didn't want to do it. But I would imagine that must have been pretty fascinating for you when you were filming that part. Because you could see where Gedeli was going. And I think he was on to something. For sure. I think it would have been a huge hit. And again, I think ahead of its time, I think you see some of the things that are happening in postgame shows now and halftime shows and trying to keep the audience. And that was right in Dennis' wheelhouse. But something he didn't want to do at the time. But, yeah. You wonder how television history, sports television history could have changed if you had Madden and Michaels on the broadcast and then Dennis Miller at halftime.

22:07Just think about that. Would have been unbelievable. All right, a couple more things here. Haven't seen Dan Fouts in a bit, who really has had a great career in broadcasting. I mean, I've written this before. I was in places. Totally got screwed, in my opinion, in terms of not being part of the business. But it was great to hear from him. Always a thoughtful guy, obviously had an incredible career as a player. And I thought it was cool that he wanted to be part of this. You just mentioned on this, I didn't know this, that still friends with Dennis to this day. So maybe not surprising that he was in it.

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23:13You know, what was it like to sort of be around Fouts again? because for a time, he was really in front of our – he had a really big presence in sports television. Yeah. Fouts was great, and they still text between the two of them. I know that. I will say if you get the chance to go interview Dan Fouts, that means you're going to Sisters, Oregon, and it is a fantastic part of the country. So we went up there and had a couple days, and he was great. He was so gracious. And his wife, Jerry, just couldn't be nicer and more accommodating. Actually, there's a photo that we use, a candid photo. It's their first preseason game together.

23:55She took this photo. It's the three of them getting ready for their first game. And Fouts is throwing up like the bunny ears behind Dennis' head. That's a personal Jerry Fouts photo that she let us use for the documentary. I love that. I like that family. And I believe Dan Fouts comes from a family of newspaper people too, which I always appreciate. I believe his dad was a sports player. could be wrong about that but i but i believe it's called niners games i think five it's called niners games yeah okay i thought it was something you're probably right and i am probably incorrect um how do as a general rule like how do how do these kind of ideas get conceived in nfl films like is there uh if someone like you wants to do something like this do you do you have to go to your boss and say hey i'd love to do a doc on on x what do you guys think like how does what's the process work for something like this yeah um so there are a couple of us um kind of i i kind of oversee the the series as a whole this this nfl shorts series we're doing with hbo um but we a few of us get together we have a short list of things um these you know like last year we did the uh the short on the super bowl shuffle and it's kind of just the i think what we find is these little kind of quirky off forgotten pockets of nfl history where like the alternate name of the series could be yeah that that was a thing huh like just then it's no air just kind of fits into this right this little finite you know not long enough for a feature certainly not long enough for a multi-part series which you're seeing a lot of these days um but a just a short digestible little deep dive into a very small part of nfl history um that's entertaining and not too not too heavy have you guys announced the other shorts that are coming beyond dennis or not yet?

25:36Not yet. Not yet. Okay. But there are what TK number of shorts that we will see? Correct. Yep. Okay. All right. A couple more and then I'm gonna get you out of here. Where do you stand? Because you've worked on Hard Knocks in the past, right? I looked at your - Absolutely. Yeah. Many, many, many times. Yes. The show still produces some interesting moments, but if we're going to be honest, it's not the same as when Hard Knocks first came out where it felt so revolutionary. And obviously part of this is because all these other places now do hard knocks is the pioneer and we see all these in-season documentaries that a billion places have done so in some ways hard knocks is a victim of its own success because others just basically copied the formula and now do it as well but as someone who works for nfl films and someone who's worked on hard knocks jeff like where do you see that franchise like in 2026 2027 2028 does it still in your opinion have enough value for viewers that it should continue for the next 10, 15, 20 years?

26:36100%. And I think the word, I think you just said it, I think it's value in production value. Every player has a phone. You are getting behind the scenes kind of access through that. Teams have their own media teams. But in my opinion, the quality of production you get with NFL films being embedded with the team and the trust that teams um give us um is that that's where hard knocks shines above above the others my opinion the no i mean yeah i actually embedded once with the group that was in uh cincinnati for the bangles hard knocks way way back in the day um i did that piece for ssi it was incredible to watch that group work i mean they were some of the most talented uh filmmakers i've i've ever seen um in terms of like the one thing that's really impressive still in my opinion is that your access as NFL films still, whether it's sort of in game or in, you know, at facilities and stuff is phenomenal during the course of your tenure there.

27:35And I think you worked 15 years there. That's right. Yeah. Like, am I still correct that like, basically, like, generally speaking, unless you're not really giving away something so proprietary that the teams don't want you to do, your access is incredible, right? They really can do things in the league that many other in-house kind of film places cannot do yeah i mean when you talk about having you know robotic cameras in in every room at the seahawks uh facility for this past training camp um hard knocks it's a level of trust that nfl films has built over decades um and it's something that we we cherish um you know deeply last one and if again if you don't want to say what it is because you feel like it might give away something i respect it but you know you're an accomplished filmmaker it's worth asking the question what subjects are out there in sports that you really would love to explore whether it's as a in the 40 minute kind of short space or something where you know uh and ken rogers has been on this podcast a number of times where you really explored like in his case like when he did the four uh falls of buffalo you know you do two hours on this one franchise where you really sort of tell the history of whether the history is glory or the history is tragedy?

28:51It's a good question. To answer that would give away a couple of things that are maybe in a hopper. So I'll keep that close to the chest. But there are a plethora of stories just like Dennis Miller, just like this bull shuffle that fit this short documentary series we're doing. And we're really excited to keep this going with our partners that couldn't be better um hbo you could tell me if you've seen this or not has anybody ever done anything on josh allen's wyoming days uh not to my not to my knowledge i think that's interesting i the real i mean maybe as an east coaster i'm um making it a little more exotic but that as someone who um obviously thinks the guy's an incredible quarterback and i have ties to buffalo that would interest me because i don't know anything about it and like you know i'm saying He's not from Ohio State.

29:41He's not from Alabama. He's from Wyoming. And he's one of maybe the greatest quarterbacks of all time. That's kind of interesting. I like that. All right. If it ever happens, send the check to Toronto, Canada, Jeff. We'll give you a co-producer credit. Thank you. Don't tariff me for that idea. Thank you. All right. Jeff Cameron is the director and producer of the upcoming HBO original doc on Dennis. It's not really on Dennis Miller. It's on the Dennis Miller era of Monday Night Football. It's called Miller Night Football, and it chronicles Dennis' time in the booth in 2000, 2001 with Al Michaels, Dan Fouts, Melissa Stark.

30:21It's really, really good. It's just very fun to listen to. And if you're a Dennis Miller fan, there are parts in there when I watch it. I was laughing my ass off because I had not heard these lines in a long time. The doc debuts on HBO Max on September 29th as the first in a series of 2026 NFL shorts. Jeff, I can't thank you enough for coming on and great work with this. It's really a fun doc. Thanks so much for joining me today on the sports. Thank you for saying that. Thanks for having me. You got it. All right, Jeff, stay here as we, as I'll close up shop. My thanks to Jeff Cameron again, check out the doc.

30:58I give it a recommendation. If you enjoy these kind of conversations, of course, rate, subscribe, leave us a review and a note. Always helpful. Speaking of the NFL, Troy Aikman was on this podcast last week. Got a lot of attention, obviously, because he talked about where his contract stands with ESPN. And where his contract stands with ESPN right now is it doesn't stand anywhere. They have yet to get it to a place where we know what Troy is going to do. So if you're interested in that, check that out. obviously we've had a ton of round tables on things that are going on in sports media whether it's uh jj watt now taking over tony romo in the number one spot obviously a lot of viewership talk on this and then in terms of other conversations damian woody was on this podcast september 15th suzy colber on this podcast september 10th much appreciate the feedback on both of those want to thank james jackson for all his hard work thanks to everybody to our support and thank you for listening we'll see you soon on the sports media podcast

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