The end of Tony Romo at CBS Sports

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1:56Welcome to the Sports Media Podcast. I'm your host, Richard Deitch. My producer, as always, is James Jackson. This is our weekend roundtable. I have two of the regulars, John Lewis, founder and editor of Sports Media Watch. Austin Karp, the fine sports media writer for Sports Business Journal. We have a lot to talk about, given so much stuff broke today as we are taping this on Friday. Welcome, John. Welcome, Austin. Thanks for having me. Richard. Let's start here. Um, you know, the, um, the place to start in a very, very busy Friday is with Tony Romo. Uh, news broke broke this morning as we're taping this, that CBS sports and Tony Romo have agreed to part ways after he was arrested in July on charges of operating a vehicle while intoxicated.

2:43The formal CBS statement, CBS sports and Tony Romo have mutually agreed to part ways. We thank Tony for his contributions over the past nine years and wish him the best moving forward. CBS Sports declined any further comment on that. Tony Romo issues his own statement. I'll paraphrase it. Proud of what I accomplished at CBS Sports over the last nine years. I'm going to use this time to take a break, something I've never done before, and focus on my health and my family before moving on to my next opportunity. I'm grateful for my time at CBS Sports and the continued support of my friends, families, as well as the NFL community and fans.

3:17Okay. John, with that, we have talked about this subject on this podcast, including with you two, at maybe six or seven episodes at this point. I think we all agreed that this was ultimately going to be the resolution, and now we have it. Your first thoughts on this? Well, I'm obviously not surprised at this point, but it is still a little bit bracing because you have to remember how significant Tony Romo was in his prime, if you want to put it in that terminology. When he first started at CBS, the hype was out of control. I mean, the acclaim was crazy. I don't think anybody in 2020, when he got that new contract, would have imagined that this is how it would end.

3:57So, you know, let's not forget that that is part of this context to the fall. Now, obviously, once Romo's performance started to wane, it was a little bit like, you know, I've mentioned this movie before. It's kind of like the Howard Beale problem. How do we get rid of this guy? He's not working out for us anymore. And unfortunately for him, this DUI was the the the the pretense that CBS could use to get out of that deal. We all know in this industry, we've all covered it for 20 plus years. We all know that DUI may be a morally objectionable, it's a moral failing, right? It's a moral failing, but it's a common one in this industry.

4:37There's a lot of people who have had DUIs, and some of them have served jail time for those DUIs and still had their jobs waiting for them after the fact. So the fact that Romo is out of a job, to me, has nothing to do with the DUI. I guess it was OWI. It has nothing to do with it. But it's obvious to me that CBS had soured on his performance, owed him a lot more money, and had more years on that deal and was looking for the first way out. Austin? I also – I agree with what John said. Not surprised that this went down the way that it did. I felt like as soon as you saw those dueling statements from one lawyer to another, they were done.

5:19The two sides were done. It was just like how was this going to happen and how much money was he going to get? And the fact that this is going down so kind of quietly and not I wouldn't say amicably, but peacefully, sounds like he's going to be getting a lot of the remainder of his contract money. And that was what satisfied him to walk away and put out that statement like, you know, I just look kind of looking forward, looking to the future. Not I'm going to be taking CBS to court and creating more headaches for David Ellison and Paramount or Skydance or whatever the company's called these days.

5:49And not creating any more headaches on that front. And so, yeah, now it's just, you know, we're getting back to the musical chairs conversation on what's that going to look like in the offseason for all of these companies. Which we will get to in a second. There's interesting thoughts by you, John, on that. I do think I do agree with John on the fact that if they really wanted Tony Romo to stay, they would have figured out a way for Tony Romo to stay. I would be curious if, and I don't think they'll ever publicly say this, but it would be interesting to try to report it to see how much the last four games of Watt and Nance, or the last three games, if that had any impact on this.

6:28And they thought, if nothing else, we're fine for 2026 with this group as a team. I think from everything I've heard, I think they've been happy with that. I hear really good things about J.J. Watt in terms of working with that crew. Regarding what Austin said about the settlement, and Tony Romo is represented, not surprisingly, by a very big agency, CAA. I am sure that there was a very, very big settlement there. I'm sure Romo didn't get all of his$72 million owed or whatever it is, but the guy's not going to lack to be able to buy his friend's dinner for a century. So I think he'll, you know, in that sense, you know, the money is what it is.

7:09Let me go to you, Austin, because I think you hit on something, obviously, which is the next area of discussion on this. And that is like, what does it mean? And so the first part is, does it mean that J.J. Watt is long term as CBS is number one? And maybe we don't have that answer yet. Right. Right. Secondly, Andrew Marchand reported recently that Amazon has extended Kirk Herbstreet with some outs, including based on his reporting, the prospect of if Sean McVay wanted that job, they would be interested in it. What I don't know, maybe Marchand does, is do the outs also include for other people?

7:45Right. You know, Travis Kelsey decides he wants to work for Amazon. Troy Aikman, who was on this podcast a couple of weeks ago and obviously spoke about this on this podcast, his contract is up at the end of the year. He has not yet re-signed with ESPN. So while I don't think Romo would get a number one job again, this is just my take, Austin. That's just how I see it at the moment. If someone does go into these number one slots and then opens up another slot, well, that could be interesting for Romo, right? I'm making this up a number three at Fox or something like that. So I want to ask both of you this, and I'll start with you, Austin.

8:21do you expect Tony Romo to be back in a network television booth? And let's include Netflix in that as well. A Netflix television booth again as an analyst. I do. I think Netflix would be an interesting opportunity for him next season. I don't see it happening this season anywhere, but maybe somebody like a Netflix that wants to drum up more interest in their NFL games, maybe they can get more of an audience by having somebody like Tony Romo. This is where he makes his comeback sort of deal. Maybe that drums up a little bit of audience for those games that they have, especially off of Christmas Day.

8:54But long term, I think Tony Romo, I just think based on his characteristics and his skill set might be better suited for a studio role. And I also happen to think that about Travis Kelsey. I don't think that he rolls in from retirement to an A spot. I think that'd be a disaster if they tried to do that in year one with Travis Kelsey. I don't think he slides right into that. I don't think that is where he should be going. He has more characteristics toward a studio type of role. John, if Tony Romo is interested in the studio, like Austin is correct. There'll be a million more opportunities and jobs.

9:27You then become part of an ensemble, so the focus isn't on you, right? So even people who don't want him back can't entirely focus on him. And then lastly, his personality would probably work on a studio. He's generally upbeat. He seems like a friendly guy to hang around with. That's always been his MO. So I could see that. And it's not like – and this is no to suspect because I'm going to mention a couple names, so I'm not trying to really knock them. But like if Phil Simms and Boomer Sighs can have 20 years like as a studio analyst, there's no reason why Tony Romo can't, right? Well, look, one, to start with, I would say I agree with Austin, but I think there's an opening with Netflix in terms of they have two Christmas games.

10:10So they're going to need a B team. And that's a low key way to maybe get Romo in there. It might be too soon, but they have that secondary game. As far as the studio goes, that's a good idea. And, you know, look, Fox obviously is going to need a massive overhaul of Fox NFL Sunday within relatively short order. Getting Romo could be, you know, look, Fox and all the networks, they've always been the rehabilitation company. They brought in Alex Rodriguez when nobody would have done that. They brought in Pete Rose. They brought in Michael Vick. Do you understand, like, you've got to be a certain age to know this.

10:51Michael Vick was one of the most controversial Americans, period, when that went down. So they've hired a lot of folks whose images were in the toilet. And Romo's not anywhere close to that. I mean, this is obviously DUI, like I said, is a moral failing, but it's not, you know, some of this stuff that we're talking about, dogfighting, steroids and things like that. So I think he could that would be an interesting spot for him. I do think that the studio, for whatever reason, does not have the same level of prestige as the broadcast booth or even what Peyton and Eli are doing in their own homes.

11:27And so I think it's, you know, there's not a single, I mean, what's his face? Mike Tomlin, obviously a big hire for NBC, kind of a big star so far this year. But that's kind of rare. The big names don't go into the studio. They go into the booth or they do an alt cast. And that is where I think maybe he starts showing up as a regular guest on the Manning cast. And that kind of gets him back into the swing of things. It's a good way to rehabilitate appearance on the Manning cast. It's not a bad idea. If ESPN would go for it. The one thing I would say, John, it seems probably obvious to people who are listening.

12:02Like one big difference, of course, is the studio money is not close to the game analyst money for number one. So that's a reason why the Bradys of the world want to be the game analyst because the money is significant. All right, Austin, a couple more here on Romo, and then we'll move on to another topic. Do you think the Skydance merger, now it's called the official company, it's officially called Skydance, Does that play, in your opinion, any role in this, in that that's a company with a significant amount of debt? And if nothing else, this is a way to cut – I don't know. Obviously, I don't have the contract details, but you just make a logical assumption that they're not going to pay Tony Romo the full$72 million.

12:38And this was a way, I don't know, to cut$25 million or something like that? You think it plays it all into that or no? I'm sure it's a factor, but they're talking about in the billions and billions of dollars. I'm not sure that this contract moves the needle that much in terms of what they're talking about with studio mergers and films and all of that. And plus, Elon Musk is just going to pay for this payout anyways when he gives that injection of cash. He'll just take care of this. That's good. Look at that. Updated breaking news from Austin. I like that. John, how much do you think J.J. Watt is auditioning right now for the number one?

13:18He's already been the number two. And CBS, I don't know how many years his contract is signed, but I'm sure it's beyond this year. So it's not like he's not part of CBS Sports. But do you see this as an audition? Or at this point, is he their number one? I don't think he's their number one. I mean, they have a Super Bowl next year. So to me, they're going to have to give some he's Don Mattingly. Right. You were just talking about him off the air. The Phillies manager. He's the interim guy. And at the end of the season, they'll reassess and they'll decide if they want someone there permanently.

13:51league. And so to me, there's so many big names who are going to be on the market this offseason. I mean, Aikman, Olsen, this is going to be a lot of opportunities. And Watt is fine, but you're airing the Super Bowl. So you want more than fine. So Watt is either going to have to kind of raise his game to Super Bowl caliber as the season goes along, because he's not Brady. Brady was allowed to be a work in progress in a Super Bowl year. I don't think Watt is going to be allowed to be that. All right. We've got a couple other things to discuss. Is there anything else you guys wanted to get out on Romo before I move on?

14:30The happiest person out there with the Tony Romo news coming out is probably Jed York, whose six-game suspension kind of slipped right under the radar a couple of hours later there on a Friday afternoon, and that suspension will end. ironically just before the next nfl owners meeting so so also again this is not an you know if you want nfl talk there's only 75 000 nfl podcasts but explain to me this like what on earth what even does that like fine or punishment mean obviously the money isn't a factor these guys are billionaires or whatever and suspending an owner like you don't go to the game you know what i'm saying it's like i mean i hate to use the phrase slap on the wrist but this is like it's not real suspension, right?

15:17It feels like a slap on the wrist because three of those games already happened. So it's three more games,$500 ,000. And like I said, the suspension ends on October 20th, which is the day of the next NFL owners meetings in New York. And he'll be able to participate in that. We've all been there. You stop listening for a second to jot down a note and suddenly you've missed the most critical part of the conversation. That's where Plod comes in. Plod is an AI-powered note-taking device built for real-world conversations. With the hands-free no-pin S, one tap captures everything so you can stay fully present.

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16:08Hey, football fans. It's Vaughn Miller, Dallas Cowboys linebacker and host of the Free Range Podcast. Come hang out with me and my guy TJ Banks as we give you the best analysis, insights, and guest interviews from around the league each and every week. New episodes drop each and every Wednesday. Be sure to follow or subscribe to Free Range wherever you get your podcasts.

17:03Nerds! Yeah, I mean, again, the golden rule of life basically is wealthy people protecting wealthy people. And so this is not – however you – whether you agree he should have been fined or not for his transgression, this is not really any kind of – at least from my perspective, any kind of punishment. So thank you for getting that in there, Austin. All right, John, I'm going to go to you as we return back to sports media. Really interesting – I don't know if – I think it was an announcement and then others maybe report – if somebody broke this before Netflix announced it at the Puck Conference, my apologies.

17:42But Rebecca Lowe was announced as the – will be one of the hosts for Netflix's coverage at the FIFA Women's World Cup coverage. I believe that was announced at John O 'Ran's$700 ,000 private-only event. So congrats to those who were there. But, John, I love that. I mean, obviously, I mean, very few people in the media, bigger honks for Rebecca Lowe than I am. But this, again, is smart. This is what Fox did that was really, really smart, got permission from NBC, to essentially rent Rebecca Lowe for the World Cup, and they could not have gotten better press. And I think if you're Netflix, this is the most ambitious thing you have ever done in sports, right?

18:22A live event that goes for multiple weeks to get someone who's considered essentially the voice of soccer in the United States is a coup. So good on them, John. I imagine me and Austin all agree that this is a home run for Netflix. Well, first I would say I believe it was Derek Futterman of Sports Media Watch who was the first to break that story. Our guy. Awesome. And I did retweet Derek. So if Derek broke this great job by Derek to somehow sneak his way in like Goodfellas through the kitchen into this fancy conference. Yes. Well, I mean, look, as far as Rebecca Lowe goes, I'm going to make a point that I've seen other people make.

18:58It's not an original observation on my part, but I do wonder what it means for Al Duncan. The fact is Netflix brought on Al Duncan to be their hosts, their host of hosts. Right. The person who is part of all of their coverage. And obviously you can have multiple hosts for something like the World Cup. They had Rebecca Lowe with Rob Stone on Fox for this past World Cup. So, I mean, that's fine. But I do kind of wonder if you're Al Duncan, this is the biggest assignment since you went to Netflix. If you really want to share that spotlight. So I do wonder about that. But obviously as far as the Rebecca Lowe part of it goes, I mean, hey, He's become the face of soccer studio coverage in a lot of ways.

19:42Once you're doing this stuff for multiple companies, once you're in that realm where no matter where the event is, you're like John McEnroe. If it's a major, you're there. That's a very good place to be. What about you, Austin? By the way, John, excellent point on Elle Duncan. My quick thought would just be like maybe multiple studios like hosts because like all these events seem to have multiple studios. So I'm sure Elle will be fine. But Austin, what's your thought? You know, when she got First off, I love when good things happen to good human beings And Rebecca Lowe is a really good human being So congrats to her on getting this When she got that role with the World Cup I was like, that's a really big win for Rebecca Lowe Going to put her in a completely different spotlight People that know the Premier League Maybe knew her, but now she's on a different level I see this, this is a massive win For Netflix, because they're getting A superstar in Rebecca Lowe She's going to do a fantastic job It will raise the level of that event i agree um i'm curious we've seen a couple of other um sort of uh what's the word i'm looking for um not tea leaves we've seen a couple of other names thrown out there in terms of who might be on that broadcast andre's cantor was he was he was announced right i i feel like did marta's name get thrown out there or rapino's name like there's a couple of like those i would I'm going to throw something out there, and I'd predict Kelly O 'Hara will be part of that.

21:05Well, it's also like what sort of entertainment are they going to work in? I don't think Burt Kreisler is going to work for this one, so maybe they go a different direction. But who from the Netflix universe is going to work for the Women's World Cup? Is there a big – I mean I don't know off the top of my head, but is there a big Netflix star who is a big women's soccer fan or soccer fan? I was just going to go with like who's the one from Stranger Things who only does Netflix movies and shows? um i can never remember her can't remember her name but she only does netflix stuff i gotta imagine she's gonna make some sort of appearance here okay well well my research department which can be bobby millie bobby brown is that it yeah she's she's 11 on that and that show um and if she's a soccer fan well that's kind of that would be kind of interesting all right so we'll pay attention to that gabe spitzer was on this podcast not too long ago i have confidence netflix is going to do a good job on this i i they're they're going to spend money to make that production be excellent and so um james jackson says sadie sink is she part of that show let's see here some uh we'll do this in real time i'd be lying if i say that's another actress on the show all right again you know my apologies to people who think this is the ringer which probably should bring somebody from the cross cross cultural wall to to to help us out go ahead john i will say this florida state two-time women's soccer champion in just like the last three years They won like three in the decade, which is kind of weird.

22:32So Bert Kreischer has an in. His alma mater is good at women's soccer. It'd be Bert and Danny Cannell. I love it. I love it. All right. Let's a couple other things. A couple other things here. John, I'll go to you as I know you are following this and cover this all the time. What can you tell the audience right now as we're taping this on Friday about the WNBA viewership numbers? And we don't yet have, as we're taping this, Game 3's number on USA Network, which should be a monster number for USA Network. So that will be interesting. But the other Fever Aces games did very, very well, correct? Well,$1.42 million for Game 2 on Prime.

23:13That was the big test. $2.1 million for Game 1 on ABC. Okay, that's ABC. Even on an NFL Sunday, you're going to get a big audience there. Prime was the least watched of all the WNBA broadcasters other than NBA TV, obviously, during the regular season. So that game, which began before prime time, 6.30 Eastern, and of course in Vegas, that's 3.30, that game was not necessarily a guarantee to get to 1.4 million. Obviously, that game on at 8 o 'clock on ESPN gets probably close to 3 million. But the fact that it got$1.4 million on Prime, most dream WNBA game yet on that service, in a rough time slot on a very competitive night against a Yankees-Red Sox game that had$7.3 million, that's not bad at all.

24:05Obviously, the WNBA has an interesting scenario. There were three games. Best of three series, you have three partners. Everyone gets one. You've got to figure out, well, how do you set this up so that you maximize your audience? you go with the guaranteed game game one on abc then game two on prime and then game three on usa that game three on espn would have gotten a really really big number yep and just to talk about what was on espn was nhl opening night and that prime game drew almost double the audience that the rangers bruins game did on opening night on espn in the same window yeah great austin the one reality is without caitlin uh now it's a big hit like you just have to be honest uh um about that conversation which all three of us have been and all three of us watch this league we certainly uh you know have tremendous respect for the other stars in the league like asia wilson and brianna stewart but there's only one television needle mover in terms of really intense television needle mover and that's caitlin so austin when you look down the road and again this is just my sort of 10 ,000-foot kind of take, you really, I think, want the Aces to go pretty far because they have significant star power.

25:19They have the sheen of winning multiple titles, so I think if nothing else, the casuals may have seen them. I think the Valkyries are a very, very fun team. I just have real no sense. I don't have any kind of sense of how they play nationally beyond the Bay Area. you know the Liberty obviously have Sabrina Inescu and Brianna Stewart and John Cole Jones those are stars but if you're just being realistic without the big television team left I think you want the Aces to go as far as possible you buy you buy my thinking there absolutely Aces Liberty long series in the finals the best thing you could ask for yeah John you agree that's that's the that's that's if you're if you're the departing Kathy Engelberg that's what you're hoping for well just don't wear the New York skyline dress to the game seven, right?

26:04Look, I think before all this started, before everything turned on its head, that Aces Liberty Finals in 2023 was a big deal, relatively speaking. Now, not a single game of that had a million viewers, but for the WNBA of that time, that was a hit. So I think I would expect a strong number there. And, you know, those games, so many of them are going to be on USA Network, but you'll have games one and four on NBC. Now they're going to be on college football Saturdays, not NFL Sundays. I don't know how much of an improvement that is competition-wise in a mid-afternoon window. I was actually expecting NBC to put those games on in prime time, but I guess Big Ten wasn't probably going to make room for that.

26:50But it'll be a strong matchup. I'll be intrigued to see what the numbers look like. it can't be any worse in terms of quality of play than last year for nothing for vegas over phoenix yeah which was which is a disappointing as a television viewer go ahead austin you also brought a good point about address to a game seven is this is the first year with the seven game finals is that correct second year second year okay yeah people need to remember this is not a five game thing anymore if you can drag that out to seven games you can build up that audience absolutely First time, by the way, not to cut off anybody, but the first time the WNBA finals and World Series are going to go head to head.

27:28Oh, that's interesting. If they both go seven, they're going to literally be head to head. Those two game sevens, same night, same time. Yeah. If you're the WNBA, you do not want that. You're not. You're hoping for baseball to end on a game. Jeffy Engelbert cheering for Rays Brewers. If that happens. Yeah. Well, we'll get into that as we get closer to that. John, this was yours. So I want to go to you on this real quick because I read this on Sports Media Watch. So the first men's basketball meeting between North Carolina and Duke to air on broadcast television since March 2011 is coming February 13, 2027, right?

28:04That's – we are all of the age where we remember how monster like North Carolina playing Duke on ESPN was. It was like much-watched television, Vital going, you know, screaming about his buddy Mike Krzyzewski. And, you know, if I remember those, that was drawing three, four million viewers. And then all of a sudden it just like fell off a cliff. So I'm very interested. I couldn't even tell you, by the way, who's coming back for Duke or North Carolina. But I am very curious just to see if that gets a pop because that is the best that has always been the best television rivalry. And now it's on network television.

28:37So I thought that was pretty interesting that you wrote that. Well, I mean, remember, it's still one of the top rivalries in the game. last year, their two meetings were in the top five, if you don't include championship week. You make an interesting point there about the instability. It took me a while to find a good picture because I wanted a picture of people who will actually be on the teams this coming season, but everyone had either transferred or graduated. So that kind of tells you a lot about college hoops, but UNC Duke is still a big rivalry. I think the numbers have been, there were those years, but it might get to like 5 million or something.

29:10But for the most part, it's been in that 3-4 million range. And I would expect this to be a strong number this coming year, leading into a Warriors-Knicks game on ABC. And it's all the day before the Super Bowl. So I have a theory. It's a bit harebrained, I admit. It's weird that ABC is hearing this game. The day before the Super Bowl is it possible that ESPN will have blocked out the entire 24 hours before the Super Bowl to air a pregame spectacular maybe why UNC Duke is on ABC I love that I actually buy that that's by the way kudos to the programming department then at ESPN if they're trying to lock that out Austin you're shaking your head right we like that first off great observation great get by you guys that was an eyebrow by John I didn't get anything John it's John's Richard, I'm only talking about John.

29:59That was a great get by them. And it was very interesting because, yeah, this this game, I mean, it is still among the top five most watched in college basketball every season. Now it's a little south of some of those games they put opposite NFL games on either Christmas Day or something like that. But even when the Zion years, you know, those were around four million. This game hasn't drawn above five million since 2008. Hasn't been on broadcast TV since 2011. this gives it the potential to go north of that 5 million number, especially having NBA after the game. All right, Austin, let me go to you on college football, and then we'll finish up on the Portland Trailblazers broadcaster decision.

30:42So the college football viewership numbers are down, right? Like over the first couple of weeks, like aggregate. Maybe you or John have the exact numbers. I did see Mike Mulvihill of Fox put out that the viewing minutes are still up, right? But the viewership is down. And then my old colleague, Stu Mandel, wrote a column today for The Athletic where – I skimmed it. I should have read it, obviously, before taping this podcast. But I believe his point was that the lack of non-conference mega games has really hurt the viewership number because there's just not – in the early part of the season, And there's just not those kind of games where like, you know, the broader national audience can get excited about.

31:26So, again, college football is massively popular. No one is not saying that. But again, if you would have asked me before the season, like, would college football be down? I would have said absolutely not. It's on an upswing. And I do think maybe Mandel is on to something because I have to admit over the first couple of weeks, like, it's a couple, you know, that Texas, Tennessee game was big. And that other Texas played Ohio State. Right. That, as me as someone who doesn't have a specific team, I was into that. But I do remember in years past, I feel like earlier in the season, I was getting these non-conference mega games, which I was excited about.

31:58And I feel like that's missing. You're my college football guy. What do you think? Stuart has a point. It feels like there was, these first couple weeks, one big out-of-conference game. Especially in week one, four of those neutral site games that were just monsters to start the season. So, yeah, that has an impact. Of course, that's just not you don't get that monster number. But looking at that, what Mike Moly was talking about, the tonnage of games out there on newer partners and partners that are just not drawing the audience that an ESPN gets. You have a lot more Pac-12 Mountain West type games on networks like the CW, like TNT, like USA.

32:39These are not drawing ESPN type numbers. They're not even drawing ESPN2 type numbers a lot of times. And that is going to drag it down, especially when you have a lot more games. If you look at the schedule for the CW, they're having three and maybe even sometimes like four games in a day, and none of them are drawing over 300 ,000 viewers. I mean, it's not a knock on CW. They're trying to build something over there, but that's just where their audience sits right now when they're trying to compete with every, every broadcaster has college football on a Saturday. So yeah, of course those numbers are going to be lower because you just have so many eyeballs.

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35:38Get a real game plan for lasting success. Start your GLP-1 journey today at Noom.com. That's N-O-O-M.com. Noom. Lose for keeps. Initial one-month subscription from$39 plus tax and$99 plus tax per month thereafter. Cost of medication not included. Final pricing depends upon program selection. John, the other thing too that I've seen is that the interest in the SEC in terms of viewership is so much higher right now than the Big Ten. And I mean you can either confirm that or not. I would – again, I would take a guess. One, some of this must be that Michigan is not the powerhouse that it's like at the moment that it's been in the past.

36:13And maybe Indiana as a brand is just not as – even if they're great, there's not a big – a brand as like an Alabama or Georgia. But that's my quick take on this. One, is that true? like that the SEC is beating the Big Ten and two is if that's true why yeah well look the fact is the SEC as a brand is much stronger than the Big Ten as a brand and the SEC obviously has not done the same kind of regional expansion that the Big Ten has and so that I think helps you know what an SEC team is and you know what an SEC matchup is and more importantly the SEC it's always better to have more partners from the standpoint of TV rights money.

36:55But from the standpoint of programming, would it have been better? Was it better for the WNBA when all the games were on ESPN last year in the playoffs as opposed to now when you have three different platforms for each game of the series? Yeah, I mean, that's the downside of it. And for the Big Ten, Fox at noon, CBS at 3.30, NBC at night, it's not as cohesive. and the SEC being able to have those triple headers all on one network, it's just so much more cohesive. And the reality is, think about it, Oregon USC is not a Big Ten game. It doesn't matter if they are Big Ten schools. It's not a Big Ten game.

37:37And it's going to take a long time before people see that as being a Big Ten game, if they ever do. And some of those nationalized Big Ten games, they're just not that appealing at the moment. They're top heavy. So top heavy. Exactly. If Miami wins the national – it wins the college football playoff this year, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the ACC is the best conference in the country. Okay? It had one school that is very good at the top, but the SEC top to bottom is just leaps and bounds better at football than any other conference. Yeah, and they just – they have certain storylines, especially like Lane Kiffin is a perfect example.

38:14Like the reality is villains attract audience. And like that LSU Ole Miss game, even for someone like I have no connection to Southern football, but I was really interested in that literally because I am be honest. I wanted I wanted Ole Miss to beat Lane Giffen. And like I so I had a vested interest in watching that where like if, you know, Purdue's paying Penn State. I'm not an alum of either team. You know what I'm saying? I just can't really get that excited about it. So I'm just using missing out on the Southern football, Richard. I'm going to give you a pair of khakis and a dress shirt for the game, a flask with some Jack Daniels in it.

38:49You're going to have a good time. I did. I will say, I have mentioned this on this podcast, my only SEC game I've ever been to was when I embedded with the CBS crew in Vern Lundquist's last year. So I was at the night game for Alabama at LSU. It was incredible. I have never heard a louder stadium than Tiger Stadium when that team came down the tunnel or wherever they come down to. also that tiger walk is like insane and again as someone who's a new yorker i'm like holy shit like did like it felt like the whole town was out like watching the college players like walk to the stadium or whatever they walked to so like i did get a sense of like this is not just like fandom this is religion and so it was very eye-opening and i'm glad i experienced that and uh yeah they were nice enough to this yankee they treated me very well and so i thank you for to the people of baton rouge all right last one here we'll end on this the um the portland trailblazers um hired brayden bell and then fired him on the same day after a series of inappropriate social media posts um when he was a teenager uh were i believe a local station sort of reported on that and brought them to light the team said uh we have zero talents racist sexist or harmful comments social media posts made by our recently announced play-by-play broadcaster are a clear violation of team and league policies as we value as as well as our values and expectations therefore we will not be making we will not be moving forward with this broadcaster uh the broadcaster has not um as of this taping uh publicly commented on this um i thought that both andrew marshan and paula Boivin, if I'm mangling her name, I apologize.

40:38She was a longtime sports writer for the Arizona Republic and an excellent columnist and now is the head of, I believe, the Cronkite Arizona State Journalism Program. They both posted what I thought was really, really thoughtful notes on Twitter, which really is very rare for reasonable and thoughtful statements to be on there. And she said that Braden's tweets at 15 do not reflect the person I know. I'm a big believer in letting a poor decision or short time span define a person's body of life and work. I used to be more righteous as I matured. I learned decisions in youth are often driven by bravado or surroundings.

41:16Marchand said a good organization would have researched if there was any more to Braden Bell's tweets. If there were not, it would have let him apologize for insensitive tweets as a 15-year-old and let him keep the job. The Trailblazers do not appear to be a good organization. I absolutely, and I think all reasonable and decent people would condemn any kind of racist or sexist posts. But I do think what those two said were thoughtful in that you have to have a little grace for someone who's 15, at least from my perspective. And if the person has not showed any of that at the age of 29, 25, 20, I think it's a very hard world to live in if you're going to be judged by things you said as a teenager on your social media feeds when you are still forming.

42:03I don't know a thing about this broadcaster to either of you guys, just to be honest, I've never heard his work. I don't know anything about the guy. So if obviously other stuff came out to light, it would change the situation. But I thought those two, Paula and Marsha, and I thought had the right take on that. And I would agree with what they had to say. I'll start with you, Austin, just any broad thoughts on this. i do think it speaks more organizationally to the portland trailblazers i'm going to steal a line from the day from days of thunder and it's a monkey fucking a football up there i don't know what's going on with the organization uh you see executives now leaving chris the stout who's a very well thought of executive with the trailblazers she just left for rha sports like people they are losing people you had the situation with kevin calabro leaving that created this terrible right a horrific decision for the most popular broadcaster in that country it shouldn't have gotten to this and marchand is right i don't know if it's the same people that did the research for senator eric schmidt that was doing the research here and didn't find that how do you not find this when you're doing your due diligence do the work so you're not getting to this embarrassing situation but i think it all speaks more to where the trailblazers are right now it's just interesting john your thoughts on this one well this take a line that i used on the podcast I taped earlier today, these are comments he should have been grounded for at 15, not fired for at 29.

43:22And the reality is, one, it's crazy behavior. Two, someone gets a job and the first thing you're doing is trawling through their old tweets. I mean, that's something we should normalize condemning that. We have allowed for that to just be something that people do. That is awful behavior. But beyond that, 15 years old, we haven't even as a society agreed on whether actual acts committed by a 15-year-old should be used against them when they're adults, right? There are people who have committed crimes or driven drunk and all sorts of things at that age, and we have an understanding for the most part that when you get to adulthood, you are not having to pay the price for what you said back then.

44:09There's a reason why every single news organization of the country omits the name of someone who's been arrested or investigated for a crime if they're under 18 years old. So the idea that this guy should be held responsible for stuff he was probably tweeting out in the high school cafeteria is beyond absurdity to me. I appreciate both. Those are thoughtful statements by you two guys. The only caveat I will have here is if anything else comes out. Okay, because we're doing this in real time now. But at the moment, based on what other people have said about this broadcaster, this does not seem to reflect who this broadcaster is now at 29 years old.

44:51And I think, Austin, there's a big element to this, and you nailed it. That organization is a mess. Like, it started with them, from what I understand, not paying their beloved and established broadcaster who is one of the best broadcasters in the country, not just in Portland. Kevin Calabro is a national broadcaster, and you are lucky if your organization has someone like that working locally. So I don't understand it, but there's a lot of these owners who come in, and one of the things that they get fixated on is changing the broadcast, right? They want their own people on the broadcast or their own style.

45:31and they sometimes run beloved figures out of town and it almost always ends up hitting them in the ass i mean ernie harwell was like the perfect example of this right so like the spell binding spell spell blindingly terrible decision on collaborate you want to say something austin as we're getting out of here first thing i did when i saw the news when i saw my 14 year olds was i showed him what happened here and i'm like just remember now that you're getting on social media. Anything you put out on social media will be found. So be careful on anything you put out there. Don't say stupid shit.

46:04Great, great point. The best advice I'd heard to someone who gave to journalism students was when you are starting to seriously look for internships and a full-time job, do an honest autopsy of every one of your social media feeds because you, especially this generation, there are more social media feeds than me and you and John have ever been on. And go through all of those platforms, and if there's anything that doesn't reflect what you are today or what could hurt you with a potential employer, delete it and delete it immediately. So that is great advice that you're giving your son, Austin, because kids today, they are dealing with – I mean I remember for all of them.

46:44I remember when Gmail started. I thought it was revolutionary. Kids today are on 40 of these platforms, so excellent advice. All right. Follow all of Austin Carp's work on Sports Business Journal as well as their podcast, the Sports Media Podcast with SBJ. They've been getting a lot of excellent guests as well. John Lewis, of course, at Sports Media Watch. Check out his podcast as well. John, I always like to give you the promotion. Who are your latest guests? We actually don't have any guests this week. It's all just discussion. But, of course, if you go back a little bit, we had Mike Tirico on, Taylor Tennebaum, Taylor McGregor, Mark Jones, Tony Reale, Noah Eagle, and Ice Cube as well.

47:25Oh, look at that. Austin, did you do – I saw Marshan and O-Ran both had Connor Schell on. I hope you did not – did you trifecta that or no? No, I did not have him on the pod. I'm going to talk to Connor next week ahead of the launch of Saban. Let's see if we can come – let's see if the three of us can actually not ask him the same exact questions. But this past week, the head of UTA's media division, Ryan Hayden and Jerry Sobowitz on. And this coming week, we have Gotham Chopra from Religion of Sports. Good, good. Yeah, by the way, if your words and pictures, don't be pitching the same – this is already a niche space.

47:59Don't be pitching all of us the same guests on the same week. There's nothing that pisses me off more than that. All right, anyway. Thank you, Austin. Thank you, John. Stay here, fellas. Previous podcast before this one, we had Ed Dewey. It's me. I had Ed Desser and John Kozner on, the longtime sports television media executives as well as excellent consultants. They've done a lot of writing for SBJ. They have a new book, We're Live, inside the big business of sports media. So we talked about their book as well as all the sort of the major issues that are going on in sports media business at the moment.

48:34Prior to that, Jeff Cameron, the director and producer of the excellent new documentary on Dennis Miller that is running on HBO and NFL Films. I know Austin talked to him as well for SBJ. I just liked it. I didn't talk to him. I just enjoyed the movie. Excellent. Yeah, it was excellent. September 20th, Troy Aikman was on this podcast. Great feedback on that. Feel free to listen to that one. September 15th, Damian Woody, who's now working with Trey Wingo and doing a great job there. Susie Culber on this podcast September 10th. Highly recommend her original series that's been running on Scripps Sports Network.

49:05It's really, really well done, and I'm happy that that's been well received. As always, reviews, star ratings, always, always appreciated and welcome. I want to thank James Jackson for all his hard work. Thanks to everybody at AutoTVA for their support, and thank you for listening. We'll see you soon on the Sports Media Podcast.

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