The NFL isn't leaving CBS or Fox anytime soon — and evaluating ESPN's college football roster

0:08Welcome to the Sports Media Podcast. I'm your host Richard Deitsch. My producer is James Jackson. This is our weekend roundtable with Jon Lewis, editor and founder of Sports Media Watch, Armand Brody, co-host of the Sports Media Watch podcast and a contributor to Sports Media Watch, and Derek Futterman, who does a lot of things for that site, multimedia writer and producer. I should mention that a number of us are not where we normally are. So if the audio is a little off, my apologies. It will get better. But, you know, summertime, you got to get away occasionally. And so that's going to be part of it.

0:45But we'll try our best to make this work. Welcome, Derek. Welcome, Armand. Welcome, John. Yep, thanks for having us, Richard. All right. All right. So let's start here. I want to start with the NFL. And I'll start with you, John. Your site wrote about this. A lot of places wrote about this. Bloomberg reports this week that the NFL has agreed to pause its media rights negotiations with CBS as Paramount is dealing with all of their lawsuits regarding their proposed acquisition with Warner Brothers Discovery. League had begun renewal talks with Paramount. There's change of control provisions in their contract, which allows it to open up talks before the contract is up.

1:28But now that gets pushed back. And then interestingly enough, within the same time frame, the Fox Corporation comes out during its earnings report and says they're not pursuing an early renewal of renegotiation with its NFL broadcast rights deals. They'll maintain their current contract at least through the 2029 NFL season. so with no out with no opt-outs the NFL deals are set like at least until 2029 at least as we're talking about this now the contracts itself go to the 2033-34 season but let me start off with you John and obviously I'll get Armand and Derek to weigh in on this this is pretty significant because we were hearing a lot of talk especially from Roger Goodell right we want to open this up we think our deal is undervalued which I agree with them given what the NBA got But this is a huge business story to me.

2:19If these things are in place until 2029, that's pretty interesting in terms of stability for NFL viewers for a couple of years. How do you see it? Well, remember, up until about a year ago, it was 2029, and that seemed like it was coming up quickly, right? You know, you don't just sign a media rights deal like the NFL did in 2021, and all of a sudden now it's time to renew. This isn't the 90s when everything was a four-year deal. So the fact that it now feels like an extended period of time to get to the opt out, the opt out is still right around the corner. It is August of 2026. So we are into 2027 pretty much at this point.

3:02And obviously the negotiations aren't going to start right when the opt outs occur. So this is still crunch time for the networks. And ultimately, the NFL wanted to kind of have its cake and eat it, too, and get to the table even faster. But they're still going to get to the table pretty fast here. You know, the major rights deals in sports, as a general rule, at least when you get to the level of the NFL and the NBA, you know, they last a while. That 2011 NFL rights deal was a decade long. So this is still pretty quick in terms of timeline. Derek, one of the things I was thinking about is just that, you know, if the negotiations don't come until 2029, if you're any of these places, the Disney's, the CBS, Paramount's, NBC, etc., you do have to start thinking like forward thinking in terms of what is like my must have and what is like maybe like, you know, like not vital to my business.

4:01So I think if nothing else in terms of the timeline pushback, I think it does change the calculus for some of these places, maybe in terms of what they might bid on, at least in the near term. So that's one thing I was thinking about. But again, like I asked, John, how did you see this? Yeah, I think it's very significant news. I know we had heard David Ellison tell CNBC that there was an ongoing negotiation at one point with presumably the National Football League. Obviously, that change of control provision gives the NFL the flexibility to enter those talks early. But the fact is we had not heard anything else about negotiations.

4:35And Fox, we've been hearing a lot of different things from them. We heard CEO Lachlan Murdoch talk about how the company believes it's paying a market price for the NFL that maybe could balance or consider rebalancing its sports portfolio to presumably offset an increase for NFL rights. There's been a lot there. Disney, I believe, said they were not in active negotiations. Pretty sure NBC said the same thing about the National Football League. But all of these league partners are talking to the league regularly enough to where, you know, these things will naturally come up. Disney, of course, just closed that equity deal.

5:07NFL owns 10 percent of ESPN now. NFL has a stake in Paramount also that's smaller than that 10 percent. But there are some smaller, you know, and everything is smaller relative to the NFL. And we're talking properties, but there are some other properties coming to the market. Big Ten deal, I believe, ends after 2930. You have the National Hockey League that's going to hit the marketplace. obviously the NBA is locked in, but Major League Baseball 2028 is what we've been hearing about all these changes in terms of packaging, local and national rights. There are going to be many other properties here.

5:35In all likelihood, you have to imagine that the NFL will still get the largest share of money being allocated towards it, but the fact is that Fox coming out on an earnings call and saying that we're not going to renegotiate with the NFL, it's something that I did not expect to hear yesterday when I heard it. Certainly took notice, and we'll see where it goes from here. I mean, the fact is now that Paramount reported, obviously the legal issue creates, you know, kind of a different set, a different circumstance than these other companies are dealing with. But I'd be curious to hear what these other companies are thinking, if they take the stance that Fox is, or if they're going to entertain possibly, you know, going into new deals without the opt-out in place.

6:14No, just to add some context to what Derek said, the ESPN's opt-out comes after the 2030 season. So their opt-out's one year after everybody else, which is a really great place to be in, actually see what the market is. And then obviously the NFL has an equity stake in ESPN. So they're in a really good position just in terms of literally, you know, massive business partners. All right, Armand, same for you. When you saw this, what was your initial thoughts? Well, it was interesting to just hear somebody tell the NFL no, or at least not right now, which is not something that we're used to hearing about when it comes to the NFL.

6:47I sort of think about what John just said about the NFL was sort of wanting to have their cake and eat it and eat their cake too. I'm just wondering, and these are conversations we've had on our podcast, and I'm sure this one as well. At what point does somebody say, one of these networks, at what point does someone say, this is too much for us? What the NFL wants, what the NFL is asking for, it's too much for us. With all the other things that are happening in the sports world with all the other rights deals that need to be done. At what point does somebody have, I don't want to call it courage, but the boldness, the temerity to say to the NFL, what you're asking us to do, although we understand that the NFL is the most valuable property on television and we understand that being in that Super Bowl rotation means everything.

7:38We understand that we're going to get 40 or 50 million viewers for a conference championship game, if not more than that. We understand that, especially in this big data era. But with all of that, this is not something we can actually do that makes financial sense for us. And to me, I just can't help but wonder when I see things like this, when I hear reports like this, if we're not getting closer to that point, if it certainly does feel like we are to me. All right. It's interesting. John, I want you to follow up on Derek on this. One thing I'll note, I read this. I don't know where I read it.

8:09I don't know if it was Twitter or somewhere else, but Patrick Craigs is a long time consultant, worked for Fox for a while. I actually had a really interesting point to say, you know, there's this thought that the NFL will always be bailed out by the streamers, but the streamers could have their own financial issues given AI and all the resources that are going there. So I thought that was interesting, although in listening to what Armand had to say, John, like here is a question I'd ask for you. Can you be a legitimate sports outlet, like a major one, in 2029, 2030 without the NFL? Well, WBD, TNT Sports, I mean, they don't have NFL rights.

8:48They haven't had them for a long time. They've obviously fallen on hard times. But realistically, if David Zaslav never becomes a figure there, they probably still have the NBA. And, you know, I mean, obviously, they still have a lot of other rights. So you obviously can survive without the NFL. You're going to be at a lower level. TNC sports is a big factor. They're going to have college football, national championship. Well, not the national championship, but the semifinals this year. They have the national championship of college basketball every other year. They've managed to put together a very strong portfolio, granted, not as strong as it used to be.

9:26And certainly one that, you know, is only a few non-renewals away from collapse at this point from falling apart. But they've managed to hold on pretty well. Derek, one of the things like I know I'm a sort of a product of my time. So, like, I've always worked under the premise that, like, sports rights are going up and NFL rights are going up. And until you prove to me that that's not the case, that will always be my prediction. So, like, I heard what Armand said and I, you know, I wish that pushback happened, but I never see pushback anywhere. I don't see it in the United States Congress. I don't see it in any places.

10:00So I would ask you, like, is there anything that you see on the landscape where you might buy Armand's thesis that like some company at a certain point, and when I say some company, I mean like a Disney, or Disney's probably not going to be the one, a Paramount Skydance, an NBC Comcast says, we just can't do it. Like we cannot pay this money and we're okay with our rights going to, you know, Netflix, Prime Video, you know, YouTube, wherever. I mean, if the merger between Paramount and Warner Brothers Discovery closes, you could be looking at a company with about 80 billion in debt. And ultimately there's going to be a point.

10:40I mean, Paramount Inc. the UFC deal reportedly worth 7.7 billion over seven years, which has seen, the premise has been, And it's been a massive overpay, although there's been some viewership successes there. Although I didn't mean to interrupt you, but that overpay also might have been to get in. That might have been a political overpay, overpay, right, to to get in with this administration in exchange for, you know, an overpay, probably in terms of what the UFC is really worth. I apologize for interrupting. No worries. And what I would add, too, is that I know reports have indicated that the government's looking into the NFL about the legality of its streaming deals.

11:15You have the FCC soliciting public comment about the Sports Broadcasting Act, specifically the antitrust exemption. Fox putting in a comment about it and pretty much backing broadcast television. That was very significant. And the NFL does have a slight increase in broadcast inventory this season. Some of the ESPN windows, those four all going to broadcast networks, whether it be by virtue of a regional game becoming national or another window being awarded. You have a Christmas game on Fox, first time on broadcast television in quite a few years. So I think the impact of streaming is starting to level out.

11:46We are seeing Netflix, though, with four more games to its schedule this year as part of a larger deal. But remember, I think it may have been John Aranda Puck who reported that YouTube ultimately said no to splitting that package with Netflix because I believe YouTube wanted exclusivity there. So maybe, you know, maybe that's what it comes down to in the future. How many games are you getting as an exclusive rights holder? But right now, I still think the sky's the limit with the NFL. I've seen reports, I've seen predictions that the NFL could double its total media rights fee. I believe right now the revenue, rather, gets$110 billion total over 11 years.

12:20You see another 11-year deal. I wouldn't be shocked if it goes significantly higher. I still think NFL programming is that vital to television these days. All right. We'll end on you, Armand. Two things. One, how much do you think the NBA deal factors into this in terms of it chafed the owners? Forget about Goodell. Ultimately, Goodell is being sort of dictated by what the owners want in terms of all the revenue stuff. And I'd have to think the NFL owners and probably rightly so looked at that deal and like, you got to be kidding. If the NBA is getting this, you know, we're pulling 19 million viewers, viewership for on average per our regular season game.

12:54And look what the NBA is doing. So that's part one. And the other thing I think about is, you know, I also think to myself, like, is there ever going to be a time in our lifetimes where the NFL will not have this power over the American public? where it just will not be the most important content play that exists. You guys are all younger than me. I don't think I'm going to outlast that. I wouldn't say never. Derek is like 30 years old, maybe in his time. But I don't see it. I just don't see it. So that's two for you, Armand, in terms of NBA impact. And is there anything that could change the NFL's grasp on the American public?

13:31I'll be honest with you. As much as we criticize the NFL and I criticize the NFL, I am still super hyped for the second week in September. I mean, it has everybody's using this term now. Has it been a chokehold or has them in a chokehold? And to a degree, even with all of the issues that I have with the NFL and what happens behind the scenes, there's still nothing like it. I mean, there could be some things that would maybe change my mind on that. going to the 18th game would perhaps make me rethink some things, player safety issues and things like that. But we know enough stuff about the NFL and what is behind the scenes, what's behind the curtain because of reporting from people like Don Van Nata, et cetera.

14:18We know enough to know what we need to know about the NFL. And yet the appetite is still enormous. So that's part two to that question. But part one, I mean, of course, I think the NBA deal caused these owners to look and say, are you kidding me? This league is beneath us. They don't generate the kind of buzz we dominate. We have such a hold on on the culture. And to see the NBA get that much money, I'm sure it had owners across the NFL saying to themselves, If this is what this league can get and they don't have nearly the kind of impact on on viewership and the overall cultural outlook, the overall flow of the culture, if they can get that number, 75 plus billion dollars, then surely we can get.

15:10Ten times more than that. yeah and the one thing too like you know the nfl and can always point to and you know when cbs lost the nfl like they went into the wilderness and there are examples of when you lose that programming sort of what happens to your company and and stuff like that and then one last factor just in terms of covering this a long time never underestimate how the executives who are in the room negotiating this stuff and even their bosses want the nfl because they want to be sort of part of that landscape. They want to be able to take clients to the Super Bowl. You know, that's a big factor.

15:47I mean, on a smaller level, I remember people used to bid on like things like the French Open in Wimbledon because it was a great boondoggle for some of these executives. Obviously, that's not the main thing, but it's part of it. And that's why I always sort of wonder if any of these places would ever bail on the NFL. All right, we're going to segue. I'm going to go to you, John Lewis, to college football. We'll have a little bit of fun here in terms of ESPN announces its college football teams. And for the hardcore college football fans, like this is always a big deal, like to sort of see like who the teams are.

16:18The major teams haven't really changed. And so we'll go through those. Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstreet, Holly Rowe. They return for their sixth straight season. They're the main team, basically. They'll call the national championship. Number two team is Sean McDonough, Greg McElroy. Katie George is new on the sideline. They most likely get a semifinal game and they're essentially the number two team. Then you have Joe Tessitore, Jesse Palmer, Chris Budden, Dave Pasch, Dusty Dvorak, Taylor McGregor are a team. Tom Hart, Roddy Jones, Quint Kessenik, Bob Wushusen, Louis Riddick, Stormy Butoni. I think I mangled her last name.

16:54My apologies. They're a first-time team on ABC. Roy Philippot, Brock Osweiler, Sherry Baras. That's another team. Steve Shaw joins ESPN as a new college football rules analyst. So, John, without going through the entire list, and obviously there's a lot more, at least at the top, not massive changes, a couple, you know, sort of changes, Katie George, etc. But if you're a college football fan, at least for the games of significance, your teams are generally the same with that Fowler team and that McDonough team. What do you think of these teams? The only thing that jumped out to me was Katie George, mainly because her career has been a really interesting one.

17:35She kind of got to a level of ubiquity. I mean, she was doing U.S. Open tennis last year. I mean, she's been getting all these extra assignments, but she hasn't. I mean, I've not seen her on the air for a while. I mean, I don't think she's she did any of the NBA playoffs, which was a little unusual. Of course, there's all sorts of real life stuff that can happen that can cause someone to not be on the air. But, you know, I'm interested in her trajectory because she was on that Monday night football team, that secondary team. and now that's Molly McGrath's role I suspect some of that's got to do with the international aspect which is why Fowler is not doing it this year but I'm interested because you know that's been kind of a straight line up trajectory and now you kind of have that kind of I wouldn't say weird but just kind of like he's not been on the air for a bit so I'll be interested to see her role this year I will say Armand if you're If you're the sideline reporter on one of those very high-profile college football games, that generally has been, as John said, that's kind of a catalyst to stardom, a sports media stardom, however you want to do it.

18:44You guys can correct me if I'm right, but Aaron Andrews was a college football sideline reporter right before eventually going to the NFL and obviously had a phenomenal career at Fox. You know, Holly Rose, obviously, I think her place in the sports media ecosystem changed when she got that assignment beyond just being known as a basketball reporter. So that's a big one. And the other thing, too, is, and this is, again, this is just me, and I'm not knocking Chris Fowler, because I think Chris Fowler is an incredibly talented broadcaster, and I've said many times, I think ESPN's best ever tennis broadcaster for sure.

19:24I personally think Sean McDonough is their best college football game caller. And if it was based on sort of who is the best college football game caller, I think he would be, at least from my talent perspective, their number one. You could maybe even make the argument that Tessitore and Dave Pasch are better game callers than Fowler as well. But again, Fowler and Herbstreet have a long history. They do feel like a number one. And so anything stand out, Armand, to you in terms of like me reading the first seven teams there? Dave Fleming gone Mark Jones gone those are two that stick out to me Mark Jones was with Roddy Jones last year Tom Hart is now in that spot and SEC fans I live in the Carolinas SEC fans are really upset that there's no Tom Hart with Kubelik and Jordan Rodgers they broke that team up Jordan Rodgers is now doing Friday night games with Mike Monaco who's a rising star at ESPN And SEC fans are very unhappy about that.

20:25That Hart Rogers Cubulate crew had a lot of high praise from folks here in SEC country. So that's another thing that I noticed. But it's an opportunity for some younger broadcasters to make some hay here. It's interesting to me that Mike Monaco is now getting this Friday night spot. Adam Amin had that Friday night spot at one point. Is it possible that ESPN is starting to look a little bit into the future here and see Mike Monaco as a guy that maybe 10, 15 years down the line could become a top guy? They had at one point Jason Benetti. They had at one point Joe Davis. They had at one point Adam Amin.

21:03And they let all three of those broadcasters go. And now they are three of the top play by play announcers in the industry. So maybe just maybe Mike Monaco ends up being one they hold on to. They end up raising him up within the ESPN system. and having him maybe 10 or 15 years down the line become one of their big college football or college basketball game callers, something to look for. Yeah, that's great insight. Thank you. See, I'm the Yankee, and so I need people from the South to educate me on who the SEC fans really want there. So following up on what Armand said, Mike Monaco, Jordan Rodgers, Dana Boyle are the new ESPN primetime team on those Friday night games featuring the Big 12 of the ACC.

21:45ACC Network primetime has a new team. Wes Durham, longtime guy, obviously, play-by-play. Max Brown and Madison Fitzpatrick, I believe, is a new sideline reporter within the ESPN ecosystem. SEC Saturday night is Matt Schumacher, Aaron Murray, and Taylor Davis. Tiffany Green and Jay Walker, once again, teaming forces to do the HBCU games. And then Matt Berry, Chase Daniel, Paul Carcetera, Cara doing Thursday night primetime ESPN. That's obviously a pretty big game. And then Matt Barry and Chase Daniel are part of the new look SEC nation, which Laura Rogers used to, Laura Rogers, Laura Rutledge used to be fronting.

22:26So a lot of, you know, at least on one part of the ESPN's college football ecosystem, particularly like the SEC stuff, a lot of changes. All right, Derek, I'll give you the floor. Anything massive here standing out to you? It's a lot at once. that would be my criticism but I think these are solid announced teams and you went through the main ones already and I think it's significant that we see Katie George in the college space now she also does as you mentioned tennis she's done some volleyball reporting also volleyball analysis also NBA reporting I'm going to be curious to see the performance this year as well of Max Brown he joined ESPN last year and he worked with Chris Cotter and Kendra Douglas on the college teams and now suddenly he's vaulted into prime time in his second year with West Durham and Madison Fitzpatrick.

23:11So that'll be interesting to listen to. And then, yeah, I mean, we had a longtime SEC Saturday night trio. As Armand mentioned, Tom Hart, Jordan Rodgers, Cole Kubelik. The SEC fans are furious at this change. It's understandable why the change needs to be made, though. I mean, Matt Barry is now fronting SEC Nation. Laura Rutledge had done it for just about a decade or so. But Matt now is going to be taking on that new assignment on top of his existing sports center anchor duties he calls TGL. and there's something else. He used to, I believe he was doing the studio raps as well and that is changing to someone new this year.

23:43I don't think that's been announced just yet. So it's a lot of change at once would be my takeaway. And while the main broadcast crews remain the same, there are a lot of changes down the depth chart. I'd be curious to see if this happens again next year as ESPN. It kind of seems to try to find its new voice with college football broadcasts. This is for any of the three of you. I'll go to you in a second, John, but if you can just follow up on this one thing, because I think the three of you probably watch more ESPN than I do. I can get ESPN in Canada. I'm not saying how, but you're going to watch it more than I do just because you're obviously living in the States.

24:21But, John, my anecdotal sort of feel here is that they've done more college football like in the last 12 months. I don't know. You can tell me, am I getting too much McAfee'd where that is part of like the McAfee universe more? And maybe SportsCenter has had more college football people on. I think there's a smart strategy, number two sport in the country. Or am I off on this? Am I just seeing too many highlights on social media? But it does feel like the company big picture, I think, is leaning into college. I mean, they've always leaned into college sports and college football, but it feels more?

24:55Or am I, you think I'm reading it wrong there? I think ESPN has always leaned into football. I mean, the fact is that ESPN holds a ton of college rights, and I think they're trying to cover what they, what they, you know, what the live games, what they're, what they're televising. I mean, ultimately, you could draw people to games that way and get higher ratings. I know, John, you always reference this when ESPN didn't have the NHL. There was a dearth of coverage there. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, this is a business. And while it's good to cover all sports all the time, you have to draw viewers to your games.

25:27And that's a, that's a function of studio programming. Yeah. John, what'd you want to say? Well, I was going to say, well, just in response to the question you asked, I don't think you can say ESPN is leaning into college football until they have a college football daily studio show on the regular channel, not on ESPN2. I mean, I think they still have college football live, but the last time I heard anything about that, Wendy Nix was still hosting it, right? I mean, it's been a while. So I don't know if I would necessarily say that they're covering it more. I know Heather Dinich is on ESPN all the time, on SportsCenter all the time.

26:01So that's probably part of it. But I did have a question. It's a philosophical question. You know, they've got Arizona State's own Matt Barry hosting SEC Nation. And to me, you know, Laura Rutledge, you know, she went to Florida, not Florida State. So Florida, you know, you can rank those schools wherever you want. Yeah, but SEC, right? Right, SEC. He went to an SEC school, and I feel like that matters. You do? Yeah, a little bit. I feel like having an Arizona State grad doing the SEC show, it's so cultural. I mean, and, you know, I would say, and I mean, I know that he gets his fair share of criticism, but there's someone on ESPN who just did six weeks of pretty good work on TNT doing NASCAR hosting named Marty Smith.

26:55And I feel like this, I mean, this is kind of to what Armand talks about, you know, the Southern culture, the Southern, there's an aspect to that that's a little bit different for the SEC. And, you know, Marty Smith just proved he can do it six to eight weeks. I'm not trying to take jobs away from Matt Barry, but he was doing pretty well on those studio raps. I don't necessarily think he needed to move away from that. And you've got Marty Smith, who doesn't have anything to do. In order to get anything to do, he had to go to TNT to do it. I don't know why you wouldn't necessarily go with him. He must have other assignments.

27:31I know he's got the radio show that I really like with Ryan McGee. Armand, let me go to you. Sort of resident Carolinian. I don't mind that. Again, I don't love the idea of saying that just because you went to school elsewhere doesn't mean you can't host SEC Nation. To me, Matt Barry can do that. But like, here's my only caveat on this. And this, I say this as somebody who, you know, has lived on the, I lived in Michigan for a little bit, but basically East Coast for most of my life. I can't speak to SEC culture. Like I didn't go to school there. I never experienced it. So is John correct, Armand, in your opinion?

28:09And like, there is something unique to that conference where you benefit like from having a Laura Rutledge or you have, or benefit from having an Alabama grad who can understand and explain and has lived like through that kind of tradition, the way somebody who went to UCLA or, you know, University of Iowa can't. What's your thought on that? It's interesting to take. It is. I think there's some merit to it, but I remind you, Joe Tessitore hosted SEC Nation. Yeah, Boston College guy, right? So not quite exactly from the South, but he didn't do it very long. I think there was one point he was hosting and then flying to Bristol the same night to do college football final, which I thought was crazy.

28:53But interestingly enough to me, SEC Network's best host is Dari Noka, in my opinion. I like that guy. And he's still doing their studio stuff. I would have placed him in SEC Nation's lead chair if he wanted to do the job, but it's likely that he just didn't want to do it. But I think there's some merit to having someone sort of understand the flavor. But I just think the other part of it is Laura Routledge is so good at her job that it might take some viewers a little time to get to warm up totally to Matt Berry, even though obviously he's been at ESPN a very long time now. I just think Laura had a way and a smoothness and a confidence, a polish as a host that really made that show relatively strong.

29:43And I think that's what's going to be missed more so than the Matt Berry being from Arizona State. All right, we're going to we'll finish up on this. It'll be a shorter roundtable than than usual. I want to ask you guys and I'll start with you, John Lewis, about what is your thought on the NFL kickoff game between the Pats and Seahawks on September 9th as far as an opener? And what can be like, you know, legitimate in terms of a number for that? I'm always fascinated by when the NFL decides to lean into a Super Bowl rematch. They don't always do it. I think the first time they leaned into it as the opener was Panthers-Broncos, so about a decade ago.

30:22Then the next year, they had the Patriots and Falcons, a much higher profile Super Bowl in terms of, obviously, the on-field result. We all remember that Super Bowl, but they didn't have it in the season opener. A lot of people thought that they would, but they decided they're not going to do it. I think when you have an underwhelming Super Bowl, which this past year was definitely underwhelming, the rematch, you might use it in week one. Whereas the general strategy is the kickoff game can stand on its own. You can have anybody play in it and still get a good number. Save that matched up for later on.

30:56If it's an underwhelming Super Bowl, like this one we had this year, maybe you use it in that kickoff window because it might not necessarily draw a big audience in week seven. So I think the bigger thing to me, I'm going to be very intrigued as to whether or not there's any impact at all from the Wednesday night. I know obviously, you know, there's not a lot of precedent for it. People are used to that Thursday kickoff. Maybe that might, you know, affect the numbers at the margins. But ultimately, I'm not expecting anything too notable one way or the other. All right, we'll go to Armand and then we'll finish up with Derek.

31:35I'm not terribly excited about the matchup because the game just was not entertaining. And so my expectations just are low. I'm wondering how does NBC handle Mike Vrabel in that space? Honestly, I hate to say it, but is that the most interesting part of this game? how NBC sort of navigates Mike Vrabel and the Diana Rossini stuff. That'll be something to watch. Of course, many NFL fans won't care about that, but those of us with an eye on sports media will be interested in it. I'm just not super excited about the matchup. Maybe, I don't know, I'm reaching a bit here, but maybe based on how the game performed, maybe the NFL said, you know, let's just get it out of the way and then move on to something else as the season goes on.

32:23And if that was their thinking, I certainly wouldn't fault them for it. The game was not entertaining really at all. All right, we'll finish up with you, Derek. What's your thoughts on the kickoff opener? And I'm sort of with these guys. I mean, people are going to be psyched, so, you know, viewership will be what it will be. But it's not going to set the world on fire in terms of the greatest kickoff openers ever, at least in my opinion. It won't, but it could end up being a good game. I mean, these games always seem to go down to the wire. I mean, look at the Hall of Fame game on Thursday. day this week going down to the last play there's still a lot of excitement generated from these high profile matchups and with all these changes uh going on with nielsen numbers i i would caution you know not to i think we will see an increase and the reason i would say that is because it's very likely you you assume at least that nielsen will end up putting in this expanded uh the expanded measurement for co-viewing not official yet but you have to imagine that's the direction it's going just based on how things have changed over the last few years so just by that very standard, the number will probably be higher.

33:24I believe the game had about, I want to say, 29 million or so last year, or 28 million. So we'll see if it goes up. I think it'll be a better matchup than people give it credit for. But I can't really, you know, I'm not a football expert in terms of the teams. So I can't really give you a bona fide prediction on like final score or all that kind of stuff. But I would just, you know, my expectations are not as low. I'm somewhere in the middle on it. yeah just to finish up on this i would bet if vegas or one of these prop bets offers anything i would bet the house that nbc does not mention the word diana russini on its airwaves those two but the network did mention it during the hall of fame game it was addressed on the studio show football night in america so during the i said during the game though yes it was mentioned so i would say that that that's i guess a good sign for journalistic purposes okay for the record for any of you bettors out there.

34:16I would not bet the house on the studio. I'm saying during in-game is when I would bet the house. But Derek, thank you for pointing that out. When I bring you guys back on, maybe whether it's next Friday or another Friday, we'll eventually get to Tomlin and some of the other NFL stuff. I didn't want to go heavy NFL on this one. All right, my thanks to John Lewis, Derek Futterman, and Armand Brody. Regulars, obviously, on this podcast. The feedback when these guys are on is always great. So I appreciate them coming on and hopefully they'll keep coming back. Head to the archives. If you like these conversations, Austin Karp and John Lewis were on a week ago.

34:47We talked about CBS placing Tony Romo on leave. We went very, very long on that, 25, 30 minutes. Before that, Linda Cohen and Neil Everett were on together, the longtime SportsCenter anchors. They were excellent reflecting on their career and certainly talking about the ESPN layoffs and why it ticked them off as much as it did. We obviously have done some other shows on the ESPN layoffs. Derek Ray was on this podcast July 14th talking about what it was like to call the World's Cup. And Gino Auriemma on this podcast July 6th really made a lot of headlines on his takes on Caitlin Clark and women's basketball.

35:20I really appreciate him coming on. Very cool of him to do that. And obviously he was promoting also his work on ESPN as an analyst. And don't count out Gino Auriemma in a post-Yukon world from being a basketball broadcaster. I think that may happen and he will have a lot of offers for sure. Again, feel free to leave a review and star reviews. It's always nice. Always appreciated. Want to thank James Jackson for all his hard work. Thanks to everybody for their support. Thank you for listening to this one. We know the audio quality probably isn't that great. We'll kick it up and improve it. And next week, we'll have more to talk about between the NFL, college football, and whatever other insanity comes up in sports media.

36:03We'll see you then on the Sports Media Podcast.

36:11Thank you.