From New Beginnings to Business Exits: Tracey Shirtcliff’s Story

0:28Welcome back to the Serial Entrepreneur. Thank you. So we begin every episode of the podcast with the same question, which is what's your favorite breakfast cereal and why? I love it. When I had seen the invite to join your podcast, I was delighted. And then I was like, oh no, I don't eat cereal. What am I going to say? I'm a little bit of a biohacker. So I'm really big on intermittent fasting. So I don't really eat breakfast. And when I do, I normally kind of start off with some eggs. So I'm a bit of a protein girl. So there you go. That's one for a difference for the cereal. Sure. I feel like a lot of people don't eat it for breakfast.

1:10The people who I do talk to who still eat cereal say, oh, I often have it as like a dessert or a little snack. Very rarely to start their day as well. And I'm like, yeah, that kind of makes sense. Because if I eat cereal, it's never for breakfast either. I love that. It's like an analogy for life. Well, I mean, the nature of breakfast is it's break fast, right? So you'd have it at any time. Exactly. So would you be able to introduce yourself and tell me about your background? Absolutely. So my name is Tracy Shirkcliffe. I'm originally New Zealander, which is probably the dulcet tones that you, Anna, and your readers will be, and your listeners will be picking up.

1:49I've been in the UK for over 20 years. My undergraduate degree is geology and zoology, which is a little bit crazy. And then I've got a master's degree in marketing and commerce. And how did I kind of become an entrepreneur? I think it was just the journey into technology when kind of the internet kind of kicked off. And I find it absolutely fascinating. I started off in websites and website content and then building software and businesses. So that's a little bit about my journey so far. Great. Thank you. So could you take us back to the moment that you came to the UK? What was your mindset? Well, I'd actually been traveling through Asia with a girlfriend and it was kind of one of those things where I kind of ran out of money and I was like, what am I going to do now?

2:40I had a graduate placement and I was supposed to be going back to a role in New Zealand. And I got to London and I was like here for six weeks. And I went, oh my God, this city is incredible. It's just buzzing. Stayed with some family. And then I instantly decided that this is where I wanted to be and stay and forge an opportunity. And, you know, what's the famous Samuel Jackson quote? If you tire of London, you tire of life. fast forward 20 years and I still love the city I love the vibe of the UK doing business here has been amazing and incredible and I'm on my third business I've employed lots of people and had an amazing journey so I feel very blessed yeah I think it kind of is one of those things like everything's meant to happen the fact that you found your way here and went actually I do want to stay I don't want to go back to my placement well the other thing is the UK is phenomenally easy when you come from New Zealand because 20 years ago, you know, the highest court in London was, the highest court in New Zealand was still the Privy Council in London.

3:48You know, the Queen was all over our money, our laws are the same laws as the UK. We drive on the same side. We, you know, we watch the Queen's speech on Christmas Day. I mean, it's kind of like, whereas English is the English. So it kind of felt like, you know, it was just, and my roots come back from the north of England. So it kind of felt like a little bit like home. And I've got family here as well. So it didn't seem like a difficult journey. Yeah, like a home away from home. Exactly. Completely different, but also almost the same. Exactly. But more exciting. And the weather in reverse. The first cold Christmas versus the Christmas at the beach.

4:29And then, of course, for us, we would be skiing in August. and here in Europe, you're holidaying on the beach. Yeah, that's really interesting. So you said you started three companies. Your current business is Scope Better. Where did the inspiration come from to start that business? Well, I was actually running a very successful SaaS business already and I was approached to exit and sell that business, which was an opportunity that everybody in the business thought was too good, that we were going to join a new, more exciting business that was going to help us grow quicker and acquire new clients.

5:10So at that point, I was not ready to hang out my boot. Anna and I was like, I'm not ready. I don't want to go. But everybody else is excited about this opportunity. So I hatched a plan to move into the whole kind of world of scoping and scope better. So the idea was actually around solving a problem that I'd seen in the previous business. So the previous business was project management and workflow. And it just seemed that the thing that wasn't solved was pricing. So Scope Better in a nutshell is a CPQ, so a configure price quote tool, which helps professional services businesses to price better.

5:49So I guess in a real analogy for people, at the moment, if you're a services business, you'll put together an Excel spreadsheet, which has hours, roles and rates on it with different ways to price. And then a Word document. And we just bring that all together on a platform. Perfect. So pricing is a big issue for professionals and professional services. What do you think are the most common mistakes when it comes to pricing? I mean, there's a few, but the number one thing that never ceases to surprise me is Statsa, which is the body for SaaS and professional services businesses, did a poll and they said in the lifetime of a business, those businesses are typically spending six hours on average dealing with pricing.

6:39It just blew my mind. So pricing determines profit for any business. And if you're really not spending any time on it, it means that you don't have a clear plan, a clear strategy. And a lot of professional services businesses just are working out how they can charge as much as they can for their services and make as much money as they can. And I think there's a better way, which is what we're effectively doing with Scope Better. Great. Thank you. So in the past, you also founded different companies, you've already said, which which was successes and eventually acquired what was that journey like from going from having your business to being acquired obviously you kind of lightly mentioned that but I think a lot for a lot of founders that's the end goal to be acquired or either be super successful that they don't need to be so how is that?

7:34You know it's one of those things it's it's an enormous accolade for somebody to recognize the efforts that you have done in your business and want you to join them and to acquire it. It's also, you know, I felt like it was on the journey, they're my babies. I get, you know, really involved, the team, we're all on a joint mission, we have fun, we've all kind of completely focused. So it kind of sometimes it feels like you've given up on one of your children or one of your babies. And like I said, I'm never ready to stop. So I always find it kind of a necessity for me to see what the next thing is.

8:15And I've been lucky enough I've found other things to move into. You always think that you've seen it all before and you're going to find it easy. I've got to be honest, it's challenging. It's challenging every day, even though I've done it before and people say to me oh you must you know it must be easier for you because you know it's like no no no no and because you've seen a hole in the road or a pothole as I call them doesn't mean you don't drive into them know when to breathe in when you're going to hit them yeah yeah I think that's the thing I've spoken to so many founders who have started multiple businesses and they say but you do learn on other things but because you're starting a completely different business.

8:57The challenges you face are completely different. So half the time, you can't use the same learnings from the first business because you're not stumbling on the same things because it's completely different issues now. And timing. Timing's another thing. It's kind of like when you start something. When we started Scope Better, I thought we were completely new and unique. We started down an AI journey and we modeled out the entire platform around producing a series of kind of deliverables or data points for services businesses. And I was like, wow, this is something completely unique. I jumped on a call with two Gartner analysts about four years into the journey and they stopped me about 10 minutes in when I was explaining our completely unique business.

9:43And Anna, they said, oh, you're a CVQ for services. And I was like oh my god I'm a what as I'm quickly googling to the side and I was like we're not new and unique there's like lots of others of us which is actually it was actually also great because sometimes when you're on the journey and you don't have other things to compare with it's it's much more difficult so finding other things to compare with to set your sights on your sales on I think will help you on an entrepreneurial journey. Yeah definitely being able to see like you're not just a small fish in a big pond you're there's there's other people around you and you can be like okay what's what's going on what's the industry expecting of me as well it's also that whole mind shift that happened that day was like oh we're we're bleeding ed to oh we're cutting edge we've got other people around us let's see what they're doing in different segments in different markets what makes us different because I think the secret to a good business is really identifying what makes you different and what your superpower is and not being distracted by other people like get in your lane own that lane and know that that is what your strengths are sometimes you can't help yourself it's like we're all we do that don't we all crane our necks oh my goodness I can see them out the corner of my eye and they're doing better but you really need to focus around what it is that's that's in your lane yeah my advice so we kind of discussed how not all challenges will be the same on every journey throughout your entire career journey what do you think have been some of the main challenges that stick out in your mind and how did you manage to overcome them to get to where you are now I mean there's a number you can have challenges when you're because I invariably use in work in tech and sometimes you have to choose a technical solution that might not in time have been the right solution so I love a pivot I love it just and I also believe that sometimes to dwell on make it worrying about making the right choice you just need to make a decision and force that through and sometimes it's just making the decision and moving that's important.

12:00The other one I absolutely say all the time, like Winston Churchill, never, never, never give up. I mean, you can have good days, you can have bad days, and you can have dark days. But you can also have amazing days, like today, where I get to chat to you about my journey. So yeah, I mean, my honest advice when I say to people, I say, I know it's tough. Not everybody can do this. Enjoy the journey. smell the roses when you get roses and never never never go up yeah I think I hear so many founders talk about that a certain type of person can book can be a successful founder but there's no really traits besides never giving up people can be extroverted they can be introverted people can like have completely different but the one thing that mattered is they get up every day and go, I love what I do, so I'm going to keep doing it.

12:55Yeah, it's really hard, but it's all I know at this point. They don't want to go back to corporate because they're like, my solution is the solution. So I think that's very poignant that I hear a lot of kind of just don't give up. There's also so many examples, right? I mean, Dropbox was the start of an entire new revolution around how we did file storage. And you wouldn't contemplate ever doing it again of a server in an office. And, I mean, they nearly got stopped hundreds of times. You know, the amount of things in the technology realm that have just, I mean, the Apple, the enormous success of Steve Jobs and Apple, I mean, how many times did that never get to where it needed to be?

13:42So that advice, it's pretty good advice. It is. And even talking about companies like that, Canva was a big one. The founder was constantly told, we're not going to fund this because it kind of seems like other applications can kind of do the same thing. And now I'm pretty sure multi-billion dollar company, they're massive. The concept of them not being around is actually a bit crazy because I think everyone uses Canva from people who do kind of design things for their job, who do like small bits of marketing to just the average person making a small Instagram post for their personal Instagram.

14:25it's one of those things that's kind of come into everyone's lives and the thought of it not have ever been there and the fact that the founder got so many no's and got told she wasn't going to be funded so many times yeah it's crazy because now everyone uses it it's ubiquitous i agree i mean what's the other one who would have thought that was like oh we had we had messenger or we had kind of like yeah and all of a sudden it's like it just it just viraled out of all the possibility They made no money. They made, you know, but it's like everyone uses it. It's ubiquitous worldwide. Yeah, I know.

15:02Technology, it's fabulous, isn't it? Yes, it is. It really is. I think people don't realize just who aren't in the space don't realize how much it affects them until it doesn't work. Yeah. So we spoke about the challenges. What would you say have been some of the highlights of your journey so far? Well, I think it always feels good when you do exit a business, also when you start a business. I like kind of either end of the spectrum. Sometimes in the middle, it can be a bit daunting. I mean, the nice thing about exiting is for the first day ever, you can kind of go, actually, the buck doesn't stop with me every single day and every single call.

15:46That was actually a really nice feeling for a couple of months. And I also love coming up with ideas, building a business, brainstorming. I love building new things. Don't know why, but that's kind of, I think, where I'm quite passionate. So starting, I also love coming up with the idea, the marketing, the branding, the, yeah. Sometimes in the middle, in the day-to-day, in the grind, I love problem solving. And I think as a founder, you've got to really like to deal with problems because they sometimes come at you hard and fast. celebrate the wins and deal with the challenges. How do you like to celebrate the wins?

16:30I mean, I love a glass of champagne. I've got to be honest. Yeah, when I talk to people and they're like, I don't drink, I'm like, oh, God. It's like, please. I also like to do it as a team, like the call-outs, the shout-outs. I think that's really important. there's that wonderful saying isn't there like you want to go fast go alone if you want to go strong go as a team and I think sometimes you forget that it takes a village to do to grow a business and it's you know I know I often get get the the joys of being the figurehead and getting to talk to people but behind me I have an amazing group of people so I you know that is one of the things I love doing is celebrating with them.

17:16We have regular kind of, we have a daily stand up with the team. We have a weekly kind of meeting and then we have a monthly all teams and always that's about kind of doing call outs with things to celebrate. Yeah, we talk about stuff that's not working, but that's, it's the positive focus that we try and keep attached to. Yeah, great. So we've discussed that you've started multiple business. So you've started to multiple businesses you've scaled multiple businesses what have been the key lessons that you've learned during all of that it's it's it's tough I think one of the things that's really difficult to get to get to is to get we've struggled to get out of founder-led sales so I get very passionate around selling the the different tools that we build and put together and I always think it's quite good to go early.

18:15So I still remember in this business and the last business, people were like, are we ready? I'm like, yeah, yeah, we've got to go. So finding some kind of key, I call them hero partners, clients that you then wrap your arms around and you really support and they really support you is absolutely critical. And people talk now about MVP, minimum viable product. we never used to really talk about that we used to say well what is it that is you know what is the key thing that we can really provide to a client that's going to give them competitive advantage it's the same thing you've got to work out what your superpower is wrap your arms around it and that's the really hardest thing is taking a business from kind of idea to selling that into clients and making that repeatable sales motion and scaling.

19:08It's a challenge. It is a challenge. Yeah, I can imagine. So we've discussed how you started three businesses, your current one, but what have all of the different businesses been? So the first one was around content, producing content for websites and for various different agencies. And then I moved into software specifically. So it was a project management and a resource planning tool. And actually the software was created in the previous business. And then the final business, I'd seen a similar type thing where I'd seen a problem before I'd even exited the previous business that I was like, okay, so we're solving this part of it, but I can see that there's another hole here.

19:57And I'd already kind of had a little bit of an idea around doing it. So I know that I say at the moment, I'm like, I'm not going to do another one. But I think, I think I just look at how the world works. And I like to, I'm very much a process person, Anna, which is really crazy because in my day-to-day life, I put a lot of people around me that love process, but I like solving it within, within businesses. I'm not sure I'm going to do the same thing again probably it might be something more in the in the health and biohacking space but let's see see look I can't help myself I'm already talking about the fourth one even though I'm saying I'm not going to do well it's funny because from our conversation I was going to ask do you have anything in the back of your mind saying maybe just one more maybe just another idea that I have brewing there I have I have another idea brewing and I'm keeping it well down and well and well hidden I'm I've also worked out and I think that's another thing in the journey like in the beginning I was you know I think I'm a good multitasker and I think you have to be to to do that entrepreneurial role but I'm I'm what I call a quick start so I start things and I need other people to help me to kind of follow things through.

21:23And one of the things I realized is actually I love to think that I'm good at multitasking, but I actually am really quite good when I get laser focused and solving one problem. So I admire entrepreneurs that can have three or four businesses running at once. I don't know how to do that. I know how to stay in my lane and to work really well. So that's something I'd love to learn. How do other entrepreneurs have three or four businesses running at the same time? I don't know. I haven't solved that one. Yeah, it seems crazy when you realize just how much work someone's putting into one business and then realizing they've got more than just that one.

22:03It's like, how many hours do you have in a day? And why don't I have that many hours? It's exactly all. I mean, it's a superpower to do one, let alone three or four. Maybe they just are really good at being at the 10 ,000 feet. I don't know. If you, your next podcast, if you get that answer, please send it to me. I'd love to hear it. Yeah, I think it's also, I think a big thing is people building teams around them that they really trust and that they know are doing a good job. Because I think even as you said, it's the team, right? It's not just what you're doing, it's everyone. So I think if you do have multiple businesses, it's knowing that if you're not currently working on that thing, it's in safe hands.

22:49Yeah. But I think it's the communication as well. So how do you communicate to those people that they then trust you, you trust them? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's an admiral thing. And I completely agree. I mean, as I said, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go with success, go with a team. And it's all around the team, 100%. Yeah. So kind of either looking back to before you even started a business or looking to other people who are looking to start a business, what is one piece of advice that either you would have liked to have heard right at the beginning of your journey or that you'd like to share with other people looking to start a business?

23:36I, people, people ask me all the time. It's like, I've got a really great idea. Do you think it's a great idea? And I'm like, I think, I don't, I don't think it's whether I think it's a great idea. It's like whether you think it's a great idea. Cause I, I genuinely believe just like never, never, never give up. I believe it's self, self belief. If you think the idea is worthy. And even when people tell you it's not, not to listen, to keep pushing forward. and I think start sooner because all that happens is you become much more comfortable with you know the the income from the pay packet from the opportunity that you have from learning from I mean I just start today if you have a great idea and you think that it's worthy I'm all in and you need to be all in too yeah just take that dive no matter how scary it is scary Anna it's scary but we're wired like that right as as humans we've got self-preservation at our core and we're like well what's going to happen because I've got an income well you know you'll lean into it and you'll find new ways that's yeah yeah I've spoken to founders before and I find it really interesting that I think there's two kinds of founders from when they're starting is they either quit their job and really go for their startup or, and I'm not sure which one's more difficult, or they stay at their job and then work at their startup in all of their free time.

25:09So they're essentially just working two jobs simultaneously. And it's crazy because it's like, when are you, when are you building your product? When are you doing all this stuff? And And I don't even know what seems like the scarier option because both seem not ideal to me. I agree. Well, I think both of those examples is passion and belief, right? So quitting your job is scary, but you've got passion and belief. Working all your other spare time in something that, you know, is outside of what you're doing in your day job is passion and belief. And you've got to have, you know, everybody talks about this whole kind of purpose and drive.

25:51I think if you're doing another job full time and you then have your startup outside of that, I mean, it really, by its very nature, has to be something that you're kind of passionate about because otherwise you just couldn't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think most people who would be working two jobs, no matter what their circumstances, would get burnt out so fast. yeah it's even people working one job that they don't really like will get burnt out let alone working a job that they're all right about and then building something truly from the ground up so it must be that drive that passion the belief in what they're doing to not give up and not be like oh well someone might come up with this a couple years down the line and being like I should be the one to do this it also comes into to purpose doesn't it it's like I know that's one thing that people have often asked me you know as you go through your career in your early days you just want to kind of dig deep and and get knowledge and skills and but I think the world is changing so quickly with technology and with opportunities that I think just dive in and you know what is your purpose if you feel that it's you're passionate about it that it that it can you it makes you have more energy when you're doing it than when you're not oh my god jump jump as quick as you can yeah so kind of looking to this year and the future what do you think is coming next for yourself and your business we are working on kind of a new and and I don't like to talk about features but in our platform we have what we what we've designed is something called anyway pricing and we come up a lot against the Excel spreadsheet.

27:43When people say, what's your competition? I was like, it's the Excel spreadsheet, which is amazing because it's ubiquitous with everybody. It's a 50-year-old piece of technology. I'm sorry, Microsoft, but it is. They've continued to modernize it, but I don't believe it's kind of fit for purpose for businesses at scale. So we've developed a new part into our tool called Scenario Pricing, which works just like Excel with the if-then statements and various kind of things. I think it's kind of cool and funky. I know that's a bit geeky. I'm sorry, it's a bit geeky. But I'm excited to launch that. And then I think in the next year, we're looking to continue to grow and tell people about what Scope Better does.

28:28And the big thing for me is, and I don't know how much you or your listeners kind of know around professional services businesses, but with the advent of AI, We've been talking about it, but professional services businesses, 70 % of them run on what they call billable hours. So if AI is increasing productivity and we're reducing the time that it takes to do all of these things, the billable hour is going to reduce. So I'm quite passionate of making sure we take businesses on that journey to make sure that they're transitioning away from the billable hours to smarter ways of working so they can make as much money and support their customers as well without declining.

29:08And that's, you know, I'm kind of, you know, if you look ahoy, captain, into the future, that's what I'm kind of setting our sights on, the different ways of working and how we can help businesses support that. Great. And do you have any goals for this upcoming year? Well, I'm a little bit of a biohacker, as I talked about in the beginning, and I want to grow more muscle I want to get quite muscly and quite strong Anna you know this because we were supposed to have the podcast a week ago and I was quite quite poorly and I needed to put it off so that's just come become kind of you know center for me is I'm gonna I'm gonna try and become quite strong that to be fair that's a good guy I think a lot of people start the year and they think oh I'm gonna go to the gym all the time but then by the time February hits no no one's going no one's going anymore so I think it's quite good to for your goal for the year and not just I asked my new year's resolution that you're still thinking that you've just gone through some like a big illness so you're still like no that health is up there like it's it's high up there health as well so yeah absolutely I'm gonna get strong this year I mean I'm normally quite strong I I kite surf I play polo I ski I water ski yeah but strength I think yeah it's all about all about the weight let's push the weight yeah all of all of these businesses you've done all of these sports that you do what don't you do really I don't cook very well

30:46you know what we we all have we all have that one thing that we just can't do very well I love anything that's my perfect thing I love eating but not not so much the cooking yeah that's understandable so let's come to the end of my questions is there anything else that you wanted to mention or plug at the end of the podcast well I wanted to say thank you I'm going to ask you a question of all of the entrepreneurs you have interviewed what are the three characteristics that you think sum up a great entrepreneur see then I'm going to learn something at the end of it. I think we kind of mentioned this earlier is someone who, as you said, someone who's really passionate about what they do and someone who won't give up.

31:35But then I think that's kind of hand in hand because if you're passionate about something, you don't want to give up. I also think a big one, it's not kind of like it's not a trait that everyone has, but I think someone who's got a background in corporate and who has come from a different business and has kind of come out of that and started their own business is interesting because most of those people have come into it thinking like knowing what the issue is they've felt it themselves especially when they go into the same kind of sector they they'll say I've been working with this program and this is a major issue and no one no one seems to do anything about it so I want to do a program that fixes that issue but also that is a trait of being someone who wants to fix something that's broken or wants to fix something that no one else is thinking about fixing solutions that's it isn't it we all need solutions to the everyday challenges of life and business exactly I think people who come up with solutions to everyday problems for people whether that is something kind of software based or whether someone's making a piece of hardware that's fixing an issue.

32:52I interviewed a startup for the magazine a little while ago and they were they're doing a basically a shower it's a smart shower that stores hot water so it basically gets rid of a lot of water waste because when you turn on a shower you have to wait a couple minutes for it to heat up it stores the hot water from the past shower so the shower starts and it's hot already and then by the time it's it's used that reserve the water's already hot so there's no water waste super smart isn't it yeah and and it was we all do that don't we we turn like i did it this morning turn on the shower i've walked around the bathroom gone and got my clothes ready yeah Yeah.

33:33And he was like, it was just a problem because he just thought one day, that's a problem, but it's never been solved. Why has this never been solved? And he was also, and he was coming at it from a sustainability point of view. But he's also found since starting the business that it's been easier to sell the product by talking about basically it's a luxury and convenience rather than sustainability. but he's like sustainability still at our core but people want it for the convenience they a lot of people aren't that bothered about the sustainability behind it i mean that's terrible to admit but i but i concur i can yeah but i think something like that where they're fixing a problem that everyone has but you don't think about it it was until he really thought about and going why why is this just the norm now why why for like so many years have we all just been turning it on waiting five minutes and then hopping in why isn't why can't we have hot water straight away because we i mean i love that i i mean as soon as you said it i was like genius why has no one thought of that exactly then you go and of course you know that's a purpose that's then he's driven it's solving a solving a real problem he's passionate about it yeah i love it yeah it it was one of those things that when when i learned about i was like yeah why hasn't that why hasn't that been solved before now a light bulb moment yeah I interviewed him last year I'm like it's 2024 how has this not been solved and people have been showering for so many years yeah I love it I love it now you've got to throw on top of that that they turn it to coal specifically and hop in because that's a biohack isn't it I love his idea I think that's amazing yeah it genuinely it blew my mind now and that's that's really amazing what you're what you're doing there it just solves such a almost a small issue but then when you take it into account that it's just five minutes worth of water wasted every day and multiple times a day if you're in a household that has four people who are showering every day that's so much water by the people across London.

35:51I mean, exactly. I mean, it's billions and billions of litres every year. I mean, incredible. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So I can't remember the three traits I've just said, but those are the ones. I love it. I love it. I really enjoyed speaking with you, Anna. Thank you very much for inviting me on your podcast. Yeah. I've had a great time speaking to you too, Tracy. It's been amazing learning more about you, about your journey, about your businesses. and yeah hopefully we'll see more of you soon I would love it yes I would love it perfect thank you so much for coming on today see you later all right bye-bye bye if you like this episode be sure to subscribe to the podcast and check out startup magazine socials to stay up to date on the latest startups news