Scaling Smart: Leadership Lessons with Tammy H. Nam

0:00Welcome back to The Serial Entrepreneur. I'm your host, Anna Wood. In today's episode, I'm chatting with Tammy Nam, the CEO of CreatorP. We discuss her 30-year career in tech startups, the core leadership principles that are important to her, and how to lead a rapidly scaling business. Let's dig in. Hi, thanks for having me. Thank you for coming on. So we begin every episode with the same icebreaker question, which is what's your favorite breakfast cereal and why? When I was a kid, it was definitely fruity pebbles. Basically 80 % sugar. I loved how it turned the milk into rainbow sugar water. But these days, unfortunately, it's steel-cut oats with blueberries.

0:51Still sweet, but just a little bit more grown up. mm-hmm yeah I feel like as soon as you become an adult you stop eating all those like just sugar-based cereal even though they're the best yeah there's a lot more healthier options these days when when I was a kid but yeah that was fun fruity pebbles yeah yeah great so to begin could you introduce yourself and tell me a bit about your background yeah so I'm the CEO of Creatopy which is an AI-powered platform that helps marketing teams create and scale and publish digital ads quickly. Think of it like a co-pilot for ad campaigns, basically. At the company, I basically do a bit of everything.

1:38Strategy, hiring, investor wrangling, making sure we're solving the right problems for customers. I have a really long background in the tech startup industry, having grown up first half of my career doing and focused mainly marketing and the second half in operations as a CEO, a COO, and a CMO. Great. So you lightly touched upon CreatorP. What else do you do there? And I guess what is CreatorP in more detail? Okay. So, create-to-pe is, so think of a ad campaign lifecycle. And so, create-to-pe helps marketing teams manage the entire process. So, for example, a design team or a brand team will upload their brand kit and the designers will upload assets and then they design ads, essentially, using the power of AI automatically.

2:42and they can scale really quickly and personalize and localize the ads, resize in seconds. So create essentially hundreds of different ad campaigns. What they can do with that on the platform also is that they can publish directly to the various ad platforms like Google or Meta, et cetera. And then they can measure the results of those campaigns all under the same platform. Great. So you mentioned how you have a history in tech startups. What drew you to the tech startup scene in the first place? I love startup culture. I would say, especially in the tech industry, startups tend to attract very smart, driven people who aren't afraid to take risks.

3:32It's basically a recipe for never being bored. You're constantly learning, constantly adapting, and there's this sense of momentum and possibility that I think it's really hard to find anywhere else. I actually was drawn to this industry very early on. So after college, I moved to the Bay Area to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And this was the mid-90s and really the beginning of the dot-com boom. It was really exciting. So much innovation, so much talent that I basically never wanted to leave and I never did. Still here. Great. What would you say are some of the most common misconceptions about startups and scaling within startups?

4:23Yeah, probably a lot, because unless you go through it personally yourself and learn from the many mistakes that are inevitable, it's hard to kind of conceptualize what should be done and what shouldn't be done. So there's probably a couple of areas that are the more common misconceptions. One is more people equals faster growth. Actually, the opposite of this is true a lot of times because every hire you add, adds also complexity. So if your foundation, your product, your culture, your management team, your company positioning, if your foundation is shaky, adding headcount just scales the chaos, which can slow down growth.

5:12So that's one common misconception. Another that is somewhat related is that scaling means always going fast. So some of the smartest moves I've ever made were when we slowed down. So you really need to know when to pause and fix the engine before hitting the gas again. Speed matters, but sequencing probably matters more. Maybe one example here is a lot, most companies, a lot of companies do invest in paid, paid media. And the assumption is that when you have really great product market fit and you do paid media campaigns, you just continue to add more money to the paid media and more money equals better, better results and more customers.

6:02That's actually not true. And it's incredibly important for you to build pauses into those processes so that you can learn and pivot, better target, be more efficient. So that's just kind of one example. The third I would say is misconception is hitting product market fit is the end game. It is not the end game. Product market fit actually evolved and it should evolve. The market is changing incredibly fast, especially these days in the age of AI. So what got you to 5 million in revenue won't necessarily get you to 50 million in revenue. So one example of this is when Create-to-P launched in 2021, it started as a product that was essentially offering design services to small and medium-sized businesses.

6:58What became very clear several years in was that there was a huge opportunity in modifying the product to serve the needs of enterprise customers and also the full-scale ad campaign process. So now, in a very short period of time, these enterprise accounts are accounting, you know, represent more than 30 % of our overall business. And this happened in a very short period of time. And increasingly, it will represent even more as a percentage of our business. So by the time, I think by the end of the year, we're projecting maybe about 50 % of our overall business. So in order to evolve with the market and grow even faster, you have to kind of constantly be thinking about what that means.

7:48Yeah. I was speaking to someone a little while ago and they were saying how at this point in time, by the time you finish building something, it's already outdated because of how fast everything's moving. So that is really important. That's completely true. I always tell people when they ask me the question of what keeps you up at night, I always tell them it's the speed of business. It's not competition. It's not anything else. The biggest enemy these days is time. If everything is moving so incredibly fast and if you can't keep up, then you're going to be squashed. Yeah, definitely. So when it comes to leadership, what would you say are some of the core leadership principles that have remained constant for you, but also ones that you've learned throughout kind of different startups that you've worked at?

8:40There's probably a couple of principles that have been really consistent for me that I try to live by every day. One is leading with clarity and kindness. I really believe that people do better when they know where they're going and they feel respected. Kindness builds trust and speeds up execution, especially when you're delivering hard news. And I think these days, in a world that seems to value aggressive leadership styles, you see this from Trump to Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos. It's particularly important to remember this point. Another thing that I'm constantly coming back to is low ego. The best ideas often come from really unexpected places.

9:32You have to be open and willing to admit when you're wrong. And you have to focus on what's right for the company and not your own pride. Over the course of my career, I've worked with so many founders and CEOs. And one of the things that tanks a company faster than anything else is when the CEO has a huge ego. That means they're not able to see things as they are. They're seeing things as they wanted to be. So that is bad news when you see that. I think a third thing that people often forget is you have to repeat what matters. So people are busy. They're always focusing on their own thing. So you have to say the important things, the strategy, the rationale, the priorities over and over again.

10:22that's how you can build alignment and that's when alignment really takes hold you have to remember that you get tired of your own message way before other people do so I think repetition of important things really matters a lot I think it's quite funny how your first two points are essentially completely opposite of what Mark Zuckerberg said earlier this year about how businesses need more masculine energy. Because I feel like your two, your first two leadership principles were very much the opposite of that, which I think also makes you feel, it makes someone feel more human if they're not being so cutthroat.

11:08Yeah. And I think that the assumption that a lot of leaders make is that that masculine energy equates to good business or aggressive business. and the two are not mutually exclusive. You can be kind and be a really great and aggressive business leader at the same time. So I think that's something that women know really well in particular. And that's another reason why I'm a huge advocate for different leadership styles, including having more representation among women. Definitely. So as the CEO of CreateP, CreatiP saw a 400 % increase in revenue over the past year. What do you think were the key contributors to that kind of scale?

11:58I think there is probably two primary things and a lot of maybe medium-sized and minor things that compound over time. One is that the market was ready. Marketing teams are really under pressure these days to do more with less. CreatiP solved that challenge. So because we simplify ad production and distribution without requiring a giant budget or a headcount, and these days every marketing team is desperate for that right now. So timing is huge and very underrated when it comes to looking at a company and evaluating whether they are or have the potential to grow exponentially. Another is product-driven strategy.

12:48So you hear product-led growth, product-led sales often. And essentially what it means is that you have a platform that is, in our case, for example, the platform is super easy to try. It's easy to scale. There's no barrier. There's no steep learning curve. And once an individual or a small team sees the value, they grow with us because they bring their colleagues. They increase just their usage of the product itself. Yeah. So in our case, they might start with ad creation and then they move to adding ad launching and ad measurement. Great. And then how do you lead a company that's growing so fast?

13:34I think it kind of goes back to some of the other principles of more it doesn't equal growth. you do have to sit back and think about how you want to grow kind of intentionally. In my case, I'm a big believer in the importance of building scaffolding, the right scaffolding, in order to support faster growth in like future phases. And then you have to evaluate and then rebuild that scaffold for a different phase. But that scaffolding means hiring the right people, especially on the management team, it's super important. Making sure that their culture fits because that also creates friction when there's not good culture fits.

14:21And focusing on the right things, making sure people are focused on the right things and that the priorities are straight. So all of these things really form incredibly strong base when it's good and it's right for you to build on top of. Great. So also looking at your career journey, what would you say have been some of the hardest challenges that you've faced so far? And how did you manage to overcome them? Probably two challenges come to mind and they're somewhat generic. One is imposter syndrome. So every time I stretched into a new role, and I tried to do this on purpose at every phase, it came with a voice in my head saying, are you sure you belong here?

15:14I mean, but actually, I've mentored a lot of young people over the years, and they often ask me the same thing. How do I handle imposter syndrome? I tell them that everyone has it and people who don't are either not challenging themselves enough or they're sociopath. So maybe the sociopath thing is a little extreme, but the point is, know that most people suffer from the same thing. And you should try to embrace it as actually a good sign. I think the other general challenge has been, and this is more applicable earlier in my career, has been being a woman in the tech industry, especially as an Asian woman.

16:00And it has come with moments that remind you that you're in the minority. For example, I remember attending leadership summits where I was one of maybe three women in a room of 100 men. obviously it didn't stop me but it did make me realize how important representation is not just for optics but it's also good business so this goes back to my earlier point about the importance of different points of view and you know and i think that's what keeps companies smarter and more nimble and relevant when there are many different points of view especially these days when business is moving so fast yeah I think it's it's becoming more common for work places to have more diverse work teams but it very much still is that importance of you need different people to say the same thing to say different things you can't have a whole room saying the same thing because then you just think something's going to work when but then you ask someone who has a completely different background and they're not they're not going to see that same thing because they've come from a completely different point of view.

17:13Right, right. And as we were talking about earlier, the pendulum in some ways have swung to an extreme side of that quote masculine energy. And that's also, I mean, the universe demands balance. And if you can bring kind of all of these balance points of view, it's, yeah, again, it's not only good for business, but you better understand the customer. You are just able to think on your feet as a company. And it just creates a lot more interesting environment too. Yes, definitely. You also mentioned mentoring earlier. Is this something that's quite important to you? And did you ever have a mentor?

17:56I think it's incredibly important, especially for people who don't come from a privileged background. I look at my kids and my kids are incredibly privileged because they have me and my husband. We're both well-educated, relatively affluent, very opinionated about what good looks like in terms of education, friend networks, career strategies, everything. So for kids like ours, they're great. They have a lot of mentorship. They have a lot of support. But for many people, many young people, they don't have that benefit. So I think it is incredibly important for people to support people, young people who may not have that.

18:47So I try to do that as often as I can. When I was growing up in my career, I did have some strong mentors. So that it's very, very helpful, I would say, especially early on, because they can help you when you're building the scaffolding for your career. And that is also important because in order to know how to, you sort of need to, first of all, have an idea of what you're trying to get to. And in order to get to it, you need to know kind of what the plan is to get there. So, for example, in my career, I started out in marketing and specifically PR and public affairs. I was an econ major and a journalism major when I was in college, and I accidentally stumbled into the tech industry through the marketing path.

19:49This is a very, very unusual path to get to where I am today, which is the CEO of a tech startup. it's it's a very unusual path but I was able to get here in part because I had the guidance from people to help identify the important moves throughout the career that would get me to this point yeah that is I do think it's quite an interesting journey that you've had to kind of hear about where you started to now where you are but yeah I understand how mentoring can be so key to people as you said who don't have that I said like that scaffold in place from when they're younger who don't know how to get into it because the tech industry obviously as a founder it can be different as well but to get into the tech industry there's still so many barriers for a lot of people who don't come from a certain background.

20:48Yeah, absolutely right. So moving back on to challenges, I got a bit sidetracked there. So what would you say have been the highlights of your entire journey so far? So many highlights. I'm a big believer in enjoying the little moments. And that's what ultimately leads to an overall kind of happy and peaceful life. But I would say in the scope of my career, what are the moments that have really stood out for me? And the moments are, and this can happen at any company, the moments happen during what I call the golden eras of any startup lifecycle. Almost everything has a lifecycle, including a startup.

21:37But this golden era is when everything starts to align. It's the right people who are focused on shared vision at the right time in a market's history. When all of this starts to come together, it creates magic. And I love that feeling. And that's something that I'm constantly trying to build and create that environment as much as possible in the companies that where I'm leading. Great. Especially as you've worked in so many startups, so you had a lot of those kind of moments of the golden moment. It's challenging to maintain that balance. And again, in order to do that more effectively, you have to be really nimble.

22:28and you know change is the the constant so as everything is changing around you how can you focus on maintaining stability in at least the general areas that are important yes so looking on your career journey from the beginning what have been the lessons that you've that you really take with you now? I, you know, actually I have so many lessons. Again, I mentor a lot of young people. So I find myself coming back to the same lessons over and over. But the two that come to mind off the top of my head right now is, one is in the absence of communication, people almost always assume the worst. So you have to communicate, even when it's hard, even when you don't have all the answers.

23:22This is something I'm constantly reminding myself, sometimes on a daily basis. It's incredibly important. But when you do this, I think a lot of positive things result from it. The second is that the journey matters more than the destination. So this kind of leads to the, you know, how you do things, how you lead, how you treat people, how you build something matters just as much as what you're trying to achieve, the end goal. Maybe it matters even more than that because the end goal, the goalpost should always be different and constantly moving and evolving. But the process to get there is basically all there is.

24:09So being kind of mindful of that process in itself is very important. And I think that's especially important because for some people, I guess the end goal is exit. And for some companies that can take so long. So if you're not enjoying the process and if you're not really careful about the process, then you're less likely to also get to the exit. it. Yeah, I mean, I think that and I have been in environments where teams are really focused on the end goal, the exit, the whatever it is that they're trying to achieve. And one of the problems with that approach is when you don't have it, when you have a culture that focuses on that versus everything else that leads to that, is that they are there, they tend to be fair weather teams, meaning that's all in good that's great if your company is doing well but when your company inevitably you know comes across challenges it it tends to be harder for people with that kind of mindset to overcome those challenges because they're just far more likely to bolt or rebel or not be happy because of these challenges so uh it's again kind of a balanced approach yeah it's definitely something that you shouldn't try to rush the process to get to the end because at the end of the day the process is that's the bulk of of the startup journey right and the if you are focused on the solving a specific problem or solving a customer need or those are goals that are more complex and interesting and that contributes to the world.

26:02And that tends to get you, ironically, maybe not ironically, to that end goal much faster anyway. So it really is just a matter of focusing teams on what really matters. And when you build a product and a service that the customers and the market really wants and loves, then everything else will take care of itself anyway. Yeah. Great. So kind of on the same path is what is one piece of advice you wish you would have received earlier in your career? I think, again, kind of going back to the many young people that I've mentored, one of the things that I noticed that's common, which is natural for their age and their point of evolution in their career is that they worry a lot.

26:52and when I was young I also worried a lot and so the advice that I wish that I was given and I don't frankly I don't even know even if I was given this advice whether it would have really helped me but the truth is that things are going to happen no matter what and so what you really need to focus on is areas that you can control and what you can control is in reality it's extremely limited. It's limited, but at the same time, it's life-changing. The only thing you can control is your perception of the thing. You can't control the thing. You can only control the perception of the thing. I say it's limiting because it's very specific and you feel like you want to be able to control all these things that are happening around you.

27:42But when you focus on that, you just become a lot more stressed and even depressed. But when you focus on just changing your perception of that external event, that just leads to so much more enjoyment and no friction in the process. So that's what I would have told myself. An earlier version of myself is just enjoy the journey and control what you can control. I think that's just some really good advice for life in general and not just the career because I think worry and stress just kind of get everyone down but as you said you can't control what's going to happen. You can only control a certain bit so it's kind of like knowing that it's out of your hands but As you said, you don't know if you would have even taken the advice because I think it's one of those things that's so much easier said than done at the time.

28:42Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think studies have shown that the level of happiness, if you measure kind of the level of happiness at different roles in a company, people who have more control are happier than people who have less control. but again it is something that you can definitely work on yeah definitely my final question for the podcast is what do you think is next for creative p as well as yourself do you have any goals for the upcoming year i've i've actually only been ceo of creative p less than three months so it's very relatively early in my career so what i have been focusing on is that building the scaffolding that I was talking about.

29:28The other thing that I have been focused on is looking at where the market is headed, what the customer pain points really are, and truly understanding that so that we can revise and update our strategy and our roadmap to be aligned with the customer needs. So I think what you'll see in the near future from Create-to-P is that product that's a product and a brand and a business plan that's more in line with kind of the future of the company. And I don't really have a lot of details to share with you right now, but I think you're going to start seeing it probably in the next few quarters or so.

30:14So we're still in the early phases, but I'm super excited about that next phase. Yeah, that sounds great. We're excited to see what else is to come from Creative P with you at the helm. So is there anything else that you wanted to add or plug before we wrap up the podcast? I think just one thing, which is, I understand that this age of AI has a lot of people feeling very anxious, anxious about the future, anxious about their role in the future. And as someone who is the CEO of an AI powered company and as someone who is a consumer of AI tools and AI tech. I personally am incredibly excited about the future that AI will help to enable.

31:04I really believe that AI is helping humans be more creative and focusing less on the rote manual work that has been probably majority accounted for a majority of what people focus on. It is true that AI is incredibly disruptive, that's for sure, and it will be. But it's also very exciting. And I believe that the future belongs to those who can harness both of those things, that human creativity and thinking, as well as the technology. So you've heard of the 10x company, the 10x marketer, the 10x everything. That's absolutely true. And I see it everywhere, definitely in my company, in myself. And so I think that people outside of the tech industry will start to see that very soon, even more so.

31:56So I hope that people feel that they have the opportunity to embrace this change. And I hope they see it as such. Yeah, I think a lot of that worry can also come from how fast it's all happened. I feel like just a couple of years ago, there was only just a couple of whispers about it. And I thought even now it's mainstream news. But I think people who aren't in the tech industry or really read much about the tech industry are seeing all this stuff about AI. And I think seeing how fast it's coming, we're kind of behind the scenes in the tech industry. It's been around for a while, whereas for most people, they started really seeing and coming across it maybe two years ago with the launch of ChatGPT.

32:44So I think that's kind of where it really hit people like, oh, wow, there's this new tech and it's developing so quickly. Yeah, I actually think that even though this, you know, Chachi PT coming onto the space like a freight truck, even that I think has not really hit mainstream, really. Not really. Because I was in a meeting the other day with the dean, one of the deans of Northwestern University talking about a program. And, you know, it was very clear that normal people, people outside of tech are just not moving as fast, for example, as people within the tech industry. So we're very used to living with and absorbing this tech and applying it to the drive toward efficiency.

33:39Normal people still are not. And that's why, for example, when I ask our teams, when you're talking to customers at Creatopy, what is our competition? And their competition inevitably, eight times out of 10 will be the old way of doing things. so that means that they're not embracing these new technologies as fast as what we may be used to so it's it's kind of a a reminder like i constantly have to remind myself that most of the world is not working at the pace that we are so i need to kind of be thoughtful of that yeah i think the key to it is education for both the worry about it and for people to be able to implement AI into their work, into their lives and things like that.

34:31Right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, Tammy. It's been great speaking with you and learning more. Thank you so much. It was great to be here. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. We look forward to see what more is to come at Creative P with you as the CEO. And yeah, please stay in touch. Thank you, Anna. Take care. Thank you. Bye. Bye. If you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and check out Startup Magazine's socials to stay up to date on the latest startups news.