154: Jamie Laing on becoming a dad

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2:27This is so fun. So for anyone who is not watching this, I need to let you know right now that something big has happened. I'm in Pete's chair. That's going to be explained a little bit later, but I'm now never going to want to move because the lighting on this side of the face, now I know why he's picked it. But welcome to Staying Relevant, the podcast hosted by two best friends, Sam Thompson, myself and Peter James Wicks. This episode does contain swearing adult themes and the occasional consumption of alcohol. But because Pete now doesn't drink on the pods, we don't have any booze here. Now, you are listening to a podcast that has written a book and that is, as of now, a Sunday Times bestseller!

3:15Come on, we've done it, baby! Yes! Yes! It was so much down to Pete, and he's not here, so I'm going to take all the accolades. Fucking love it. Before we get started, make sure to hit follow wherever you're listening. That'll mean you're the first to know each new episode you know the fucking drill by now. So Pete is off on his holidays this week. Where's he gone? That's the question. I do need to ask that to everybody in this room. Where has he gone? You've just given away who you are. No one knows my voice. So I'm about to... I actually generally want to know where he's gone. Okay. So that's Jamie, by the way.

3:50No, no, don't say it is. Don't say it is. I'll change my voice. Where's he gone? Pete is on holiday. Where? And it's come at a very strange time. Okay. In the TV calendar. He's gone away. No one knows where. His phone is off. and a certain massive show is about to start. So is he doing - I still haven't introduced you yet. Okay, well, I'm just so - You think he's doing I'm a - Right, everyone, welcome to the studio, Mr. Jamie Legg! Wait, do you think he's doing I'm a Sleb? None of us know. He's not, come on. Dude, none of us know. Well, you must know. No, he hasn't said a word. He's literally gone, I'm going on holiday.

4:34And then just went, hold the shit together, turned his phone off. what? yeah wild so so he hasn't told you he would have told you no of course he's told you Pete's the kind of guy everyone who's in the studio knows everyone who's listening to this probably knows Pete's the kind of guy who will just keep you on tenterhooks until you see him on screen really? yeah yeah yeah so then he just will appear what the hell? I don't believe you you must know mate I have no idea so he's never said to you You're such a liar. On my life, on my life. Do you know what Pete's like? How are you starting the podcast off lying?

5:12You can't. You can't just lie. No one knows where the fuck he is. He's turned his fucking phone off. Well, he's not dead. So where's he gone? Haven't they announced the cast? Yeah, but there's also two people. But we know who those are. Vogue Williams. And Tom Reed Wilson. I don't know. I just know it's Vogue Williams. Well, maybe there's three. Because that's been announced. It has. But look, Jamie, this isn't about Pete. This is about us. This is about you. Why would he not, why would he turn his phone off? Do you know what I love? Do you know what I love? This is really nice, getting an outside perspective of the kind of man that he is.

5:45I don't fucking know, mate. Why would he turn his... I don't know. He doesn't answer any of my calls. But even if he was going into the jungle, why would he turn his phone off? Because they take your phone. But he's like a 40-year-old man. Why would he... I'd be like, no, you're not taking my phone. No, but they have to. Dude, when I went into the jungle, they do... I would be like, you're not taking it. They do a search, like they're passing you down for drugs. They have a security guard who comes into your, so you go and stay in an apartment. We're already miles off script. They come into your apartment, right?

6:13And they go into your bag. They go into your bag and root around in your bag to see if you've tried to sneak any electronic devices in so you can speak to people back at home. I had an iPad that they took out. Nella Rose tried to hide. Have you ever watched Banged Up Abroad? Yeah. She tried to hide an iPad in the stuffing of her suitcase and he found it. But what happens? Because they don't want you to contact. They don't want you to contact the outside world. Once it's been announced, they don't want you to be able to see what people are saying. They don't want you to be able to contact anyone in the outside world.

6:46All right. So he might be doing the jungle, but you don't know. Pete might be doing the jungle, but I don't know. Who the fuck knows? But... Pippa, do you not know? No. How do you not know? I don't know. Pippa probably does know. She's a bit of a wily cat, that one over there. You actually don't know. I'm like... No idea. But I'm so used to it. Really? Yeah, I expect nothing less. So then how do you run it if you... How do you run this shit? We just rely on friends and favours. Is that what you do? Thank you for today. And on that note, welcome to the studio. For the first time ever, by the way, me and Jay have never, ever done a podcast together.

7:24I can't think. Yes, we have. When? We did it back in the day together. We did private parts back in the day together. Oh, years and years ago. Yeah. No, but like the amount of times I've had people be like, why have you and Jay never done a pod? So it clearly didn't do very well because no one's fucking heard it. So this is the first time that we're properly doing a pod together. Can I say before I came here, some guy was on like a bike. And I get to that age now where I'm just like, I get easily like annoyed by other people. Like suddenly I sound like Pete. I can tell by the cardigan you're wearing.

7:57You've turned into a Kevin. No, this cardigan. you've turned into a Kevin Jay's about to be a dad which we're going to talk about very soon oh yeah and he's suddenly grouchy Jay no my cardigan's sick it's like a colourful cardigan like you're joking I've turned into Pete what the fuck anyway some guy was like on his he was driving like a a bike one of those things and he went on a side road and grabbed someone's phone and then scooted off with it so I was like well I'm going to get him go on big guy yeah so I started on my Vespa you revved it revved it went after him and then I just thought well what am I gonna if I caught up with him what are you gonna do nothing run him down no if I caught up with him honestly if he stopped and turned towards me I would have just driven straight fast and just pretended I'm late have a nice day what would you do I've actually been in that situation before this is something that I'm not proud of but this is years and years ago we've done more in JP actually and who are two of our friends who were also on Main Chelsea actually years ago and they got started on on I remember this road and so just walking down the road and a group of youths who were on who were on mopeds circled them and tried to rob them and and I have come a different way down the road and I just happen I'm not even with them I just happen to be walking down a street that looks at that road so I'm at the top of that road they're at the bottom of that road and I can see them scrapping like you know just by chance just by chance They then chase them off, right?

9:29Our mates chase them off. I then come to and go, fuck, and start running down the street. I get there as everyone's there and go, whoa, God, I came as fast as I could. Has Pete ever been in a fight? We think Pete's been in a fight. Mate, I reckon Pete gets home and polishes his knuckle dusters. I reckon he's got like a pair of knuckle dusters. Do you think, have you ever seen him in a fight? No, never. Never? Never. No, I've never even really seen him get angry at anyone, to be fair. Really? Yeah. But look, Pete's not here. Fuck him. I'm in his seat. I'm getting a really good bit of lighting here.

10:04Don't know how we got onto that. I do want to know one thing. I can't wait. Everyone's already asked you about this, but I haven't actually asked you. You speak on the phone with me and Jay quite a bit. Normally me moaning about something. And Jay's an incredible listener, actually, to be fair. but you are a mere weeks away from being a dad Man I'm four weeks away from being a dad Four weeks away Congratulations Mr. Legg Thank you very much Fuck me Dude it's the most intense thing in the entire world Like I can't and also I just can't I'm already tired like I'm like already tired and everyone's like oh get your sleep like now and I'm like okay well I'm exhausted already I can't get enough sleep in it's coming in four weeks which is the four fucking weeks four weeks how how do you it's the most intense thing genuinely feel like is this are we in a dream at the moment or like do you is it real well like it's it's really intense i i'm i'm over that stage of like fear basically what i think i think i think having a baby is like going through grief i think like you go through the stage of like denial and then you go through the stage of like anger and i think that's what happens um no it's amazing man i'm like i'm about to have a baby which is so exciting but it's like the whole process is wild the whole would you do you think you want to have kids one day absolutely yeah you really i really i'm going to base a lot of it on how you handle it because me because me and you are so wildly similar like it's i think it's going to be okay i think you're gonna be fine you're gonna be absolutely great i think you're gonna be one of the best dads on that we've been to these antenatal classes which is where you were Talk to me like you are talking to a child.

11:43What's an antenatal show? So an antenatal class is where you go and basically you meet other parents who are also having a kid. The fear in that room. Yeah, and they teach you about things about kids. So like how to change a nappy. Or they taught us first aid. And they were like, so it was all quite nice and lovely. And I was like, oh, this is quite lovely and nice. So if your child, if they start to choke on something, you grab them. and I was like oh my god like you smack them that hard he's like yeah you smack them on the back and I was like brilliant and they were like okay and also really bad for kids this is like in an antenatal class they're like really bad for kids they can't eat batteries and I was like why would a kid eat a battery and they were like you have batteries don't let them eat them the little round ones you know the round ones yeah double A's don't eat those because they went they turned it was really awful they turned into a blowtorch we saw all the parents being like my fucking god and they're joking they're not joking i thought it was a joke no and you're like this has become like really sadistic and then they're like and also you don't want them to eat magnets and i was like what i'm gonna have to sweep my whole house because if they eat magnets the magnets clink together and then rip everything I was like, this is the most horrific meeting of my life.

13:09I'm not going to lie. My dog, old dog has eaten batteries. Not one of the mini round ones because apparently they turn into blow torches. So I was really nervous about going into this antenatal class because I was like, oh God, it's going to be like, well, it was three hours long. And also my concentration, probably not yours, is like an hour and a bit. That's it. And so going in there, I was like, okay, fine. It was the people were so nice. There was a guy called John who was like one of the funniest people. Whenever he was saying something, I was like laughing at him. It was the sweetest thing ever.

13:40So it sounds like you're actually excited. You're like more excited than afraid. Now I am. Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm more excited than afraid. But at the beginning, I was like really afraid. It's sketchy. I don't know. This is mental. I know you're not going to say on this podcast. We're not going to do a reveal of anything. But I can't believe that I don't know the gender just on a private note. You haven't told me. I haven't, but no one has the gender. Yeah, but I'm sure you've told your nearest and dearest. I don't know who we've told. Good, because you haven't fucking told me. I honestly don't think we've told anyone.

14:07I just thought about that. I don't know the gender. Yeah, because I haven't. Is it a girl? I can't. I'm not going to tell you. Okay, fine. Is it a boy? I can't tell you. Just look at me in the eyes. I can't tell you. What do you think it is? I think it's a girl. Before you know the gender, I was like, I think it's going to be a girl. Oh, so it could still be a girl. I thought it was going to be a girl as well. because I think I don't know if I give off like alpha male energy. Like if I have like a girl, people are going to be like, no, that makes sense. I think you fucking do. I think, mate, back in the day, you were a sports athlete.

14:43Unbelievable. We still am. Yeah. What was your running time at Harrow? No, at Radley College. At Radley. Oh, sorry. 10-8. 100 meters. No, 10-8, 100 meters. Still hold the javelin record. Today is fucking mad. I still hold the javelin record. I've spoken about this before. I still hold Do you know what I love is me and Jay we're now getting older like we're in our mid-30s pretty much if anyone the team played a prank on me where they're like do you wish you were athletic and I was like I still am But do you think you're athletic? Yeah and I went I'm in the A's of all my school teams I was fucking 17 I'm 33 and I will still hold on to that to the day I die I I actually was really athletic Jay no you weren't The javelin record is something to post her up it's not going to be I hold the long oldest record under 10s javelin I'm not joking I threw it 34.2 metres it's massive he knows the number because it's still on the website had you checked yes I can get up my school record it's still I'm the longest standing school record done in 2000 I threw the javelin 34.2 metres so that has been miles every time you get in an argument with abs do you ever just bring it up and go I am the javelin world and as I threw it I was like That is far.

15:57Like, I remember throwing it. It was far. I miss you so much. But I don't know if you're that sporty. Listen, mate, we've only got an hour of your time. Jamie's an incredibly busy man. Are you still driving your Vespa? Yeah. Did you come on your Vespa? Yeah. I love that. I've got my driving test tomorrow. Oh, my God. I passed my driving test. It took me 70 bookings on my theory test. Fuck me. And then I passed it, and I passed my test. But then the first year, if you get six points on your license, you lose your world. You got six points? I got nine points. For what? For being a legend. I don't know.

16:35I got nine points on the license. For doing what? You know, when you go too fast in roads. Speeding? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I did that. I did that. You got nine points. You must have been going, fucking fuck. I wasn't even going that fast. Because it's the scariest. When you first start, if you're on the motorway when you first start to drive, how the hell are you meant to look at your speed while watching the road? It's so scary. Just Sophie drive when you guys drive. Yeah, yeah. Baller. Or not, actually. I don't know whether that is. I just sit in the passenger seat. How has it been watching Sophie, the person you love, going through a change like that?

17:17Like the hormones all over the gaff. like you know I'm sure she's uncomfortable as fuck like living with a pregnant person because I spoke to Ryan about living with Louise man it's like um I think I think what what what women go through is magical and my wife is brilliant um dude it's like it's like firstly I think what happens at the beginning is, is you I've learned so much patience over the last year, like so much patience, because what conceiving a baby is like, I didn't realize I thought I thought like you walk around with like a loaded gun. I honestly was like, if I have sex with that person, they'll be pregnant.

18:02Like that's what I was told. Super sperm. I just thought that's what I was told at school, like wear protection, don't have sex, you'll get them pregnant. And I was like, Oh my God, that's like, okay, I won't do it. Women typically ovulate like twice a month. So it's quite hard to get pregnant. You have to like time that. She's getting annoyed at you. You're being like, for fuck's sake, Jamie. Dude, it's actually really unsexy. Like I thought, I thought when you got, had got someone pregnant, it was like you got a little bit drunk. Maybe you had a margarita and like you got in bed and he was like, oh, it wasn't last night fun.

18:33And then suddenly they're pregnant. I thought that's what it was like. It's so clinical. It's like, right, we've got to have sex now. And you, and I went, well, I'm not ready. And I've never been frigid in my life. And I was like, Suddenly you're aware you're naked. And you're like, oh gosh. And then also I got in my head. So I just froze up. So I couldn't ejaculate. Is she like, come on. And I was like, I can't. I really, I don't know what's wrong with me. This has never happened in my entire life. And I don't know what's going on. So that was a whole shenanigans. Yeah. Man. And then it's like, okay, and then you go through the whole process.

19:13And then Sophie, we were very lucky that Sophie fell pregnant and touch wood. She's had no issues and things like that. And it's a very scary process. But it's a lot of emotions and a lot of ups and downs and a lot of lefts and rights. And it's the unknown. So it's so full with anxieties. Because you have this thing growing inside of you. A living being. A living being inside of you that's growing. And you feel movements and you just want it to be okay. And to be honest, healthy, happy baby, everything else is a bonus. Yeah. That's all you care about. But it's been a wild ride. Mate, you know what?

19:48I'm so proud of you as a friend because you kept so calm. Whenever I speak to you, you're super calm about it. I'd be losing my shit. You'd be going around like a headless chicken. Internally, you can lose your shit. Okay, fine. What I've worked out is that when you're married, you just have to... I got told this great analogy that in relationships, okay, when someone is dealing with different emotions and all those kind of things, it's like water going round like that. You have to be the rock. And then if you're not the rock, you basically create a tsunami because you're both then going like that.

20:20So if you create the rock, then the other water becomes calm around it. So you have to stay calm when the other person is going through things. But like Sophie's quite a calm person anyway, to be fair, isn't she? It's the smile you just gave me. Yeah, she's quite calm, yeah. She's quite calm, but she's having a... She's going to be a fantastic mum. It's going to be amazing. How does that feel knowing that the person you love is going to be the mother of your child? That must be a fucking great thing. It's so sweet. It's so great. Can I ask you guys, are you in a relationship? No. I don't know.

20:54I don't know. Genuinely, I'm not. You're not? No. But are you still dating? Why is this like a coy subject? Why is everything in here? Like everyone's like, no one's telling where everyone's flying to. Like no one knows anything. Like what? Just make, because I'm not joking, everything we say on this podcast gets picked up by every press outlet. Well, that's right. No, because they twist everything. Twist everything to what? I'm dating. But twist everything to say what? I'm dating. Okay. Are they going to pick that up? Yeah, 100%. Can we tell that story of when you get? Go on. Do it. Sam. Sam once, once in his younger days.

21:39hooked up with a girl, took a girl back, lovely person, took her back, and they spent the night together. And then in the morning, he didn't know how to ask her, say, look, I need to get on with the day. So he hid behind a sofa in his own house until she left. I was 17. No, you were not 17. This is why I never wanted you on the podcast. He hid behind a sofa. in my own house in his own house and she was going Sam Sam Sam well he hid behind a sofa and then she and then she let herself out and I was like I'm so sorry I've already and then I messaged her in line and I've already left it was so bad I had the spine of a slug I still do do you know what okay fine do you know what let's actually get on to this if we're going to talk about me you can talk about anything let's talk about me then I am 33 years old yep and single you know I want to be a dad at least by 37 are you single though?

22:46yeah well I mean that you know that like beginning phase if I want to be a dad at 37 what would you say to someone who's in this phase of their life? well I firstly think that you just have nothing to worry about should I go should I go like quite like I'll go serious for a second the reason I ask because me and Pete last episode of this pub was just like are we where we're where we thought we were going to be at at our ages and we were both like no we thought we'd be married with kids yeah but i think that's the thing i think the really dangerous thing about life is that we try and have blueprints in life and so what we do is we try and say this is what i want to achieve by this point or this is what i want to do i want to marry at this point or have this job at this point or do this at this point or whatever and actually i think a blueprint is like a really dangerous thing to have because we never achieve our blueprints and if you do perhaps around you but typically we don't like achieve our blueprint so i think in life don't have a blueprint did you did you hit an age though where you were like i want to have a kid like this is the age i want to have a kid no i could have gone without having kids do you think well i don't think i i think i find it quite hard to make those like big life decisions and so i find that quite hard to like really big ones i like take time to like think about it so Sophie was like pestering me talking about kids for like a long time and I was like man I don't know and then it just happens but I think I wouldn't worry you're so young I'm not that young I'm not that young why that's so young okay here we go the average person starts their first business when they're 45 45 years old that's when people start their first business you've got like 12 years and you've already started your own business do you think I'll be a dad do i think you'll be a dad yeah that's not quick that one was i think i think i think you will be a dad yeah but i think you'll probably i don't know if you are you there i think you're still in that zone i'm there i don't know if you are you might be i'm there it took me a while to like like it took me until i think i'm there okay all right although although the birth side of things Mental.

24:56My sister has been very well documented, went through hell and back with her birth. So I'm very aware of trauma and stuff. And this is a lighthearted podcast. So I'm going to sort of try and make it slightly lighthearted. I didn't realize they shat themselves. Yeah. When they, when, when. Women or babies? Women. When they're giving birth. And I understand because you're pushing so hard that something's got to come out. Like there isn't just a baby. but like I imagine that's probably quite stanky if you have a if you do a water bath they have something called a poo net where they scoop out the poo we were thinking about lots of things but with a water bath I was like I want to get in there I have a friend of mine who really doesn't like germs with the poo?

25:48I have a friend of mine who really doesn't like germs and his wife had a water bath for their second one and she was giving birth and obviously you poo as well at the same time. So the whole thing, whole water became murky and she was screaming and he was like, don't worry, honey. And she grabbed his hand and pulled it into the water and he was like, oh my God. Oh my God. I really don't like this. I thought you were going to say grabbed his head and shoved his head into the water. But it's amazing. So what are you going to be doing for the birth then? Are you going to be standing by? Are you going to be getting into the water?

26:22Where are you going to stand when obviously the bed's there? I'm going to stand with her, I reckon. Yeah, but are you going to stand next door or down the bottom? Like, where are you going to be? I think I want to experience it all. I don't really mind, like, gory bits or anything like that. I'm, like, happy to be. Do you want me hands-on is what you're saying? Yeah, I'm going to be in there. You have to go through a whole thing. We have a pregnancy playlist. Fuck. So we picked that. Sophie picked it. So we play that, and you, like, do a lot of rubbing, and you do a lot of counting, and you'd be like, okay, here we go, honey.

26:49It's going to be all right. We got this. and there's plenty of screaming and a lot of shouting. After you. So much at me. So much at me. But it's going to be amazing, man. Mate, we're going to delve into our sort of relationship and me working for you on MIC. And like, because I have never really spoken about me and Chelsea, to be fair, on a podcast at all. And I think, what better way to do it than with you? But before we sort of move away from you being a dad, which is just such a big thing, especially for me, because I'm, you know, you're one of my best friends. I love you to pieces. so this is a huge moment like podcast aside it's a fucking huge moment yeah this is like the biggest moment of any of your life mate this is like but even for like people close to you this is fucking huge it's a big moment you're gonna change a lot you're gonna ask your phone even less which is fucking hard to do man I think you're the worst no let's not get into that you are so bad how bad is Sam with his phone guys it's like shocking it just doesn't reply call Pippa about seven times a day so I don't know why she's shaking like it doesn't okay here we go I'm gonna show you yeah but Pippa he'll phone you to ask you for like reassurance.

27:54Yeah, I often get it. Jamie's just said the same thing. Oh yeah, Jamie said similar. So I think we're on the same sort of roster. We're on the same roster. Okay, I sent you a message on the 22nd of October. You replied on Monday this week.

28:13I sent you, I sent you. That's really bad, that is bad. I sent you a message on the 22nd of October. I then put a finger pointing to the voice note I then sent you another one On the 24th of October saying What do you think bitch You didn't reply Yeah you replied on Monday Monday Monday was the 10th of November Alright Fine Fuck it And your response was Your response was mate I'm so sorry I haven't been on my phone for a month that's your response fucking put your phone down okay Jesus fuck actually question about this is a bit of a tangent obviously everything we do is is logged on TV every episode of Made in Chelsea every episode of whatever show we've ever done your kid is gonna watch that I've always thought I've never had a problem with that personally whenever anyone asks me about that I'm like I'm cool with it I'm so cool with it I don't mind one bit I like I don't you're not you accept your roots of Maiden Chelsea right?

29:26Mate I'm one of the I feel like me and you are quite similar I think we're one of the only people who still talk about it in a positive light man 100 % I think a lot of people no but a lot of people who did the show when we were doing it don't do that a lot of people literally like either shit on it or pretend they weren't on it and all that kind of stuff and I think that's weird because it's given us so much and also we were so young doing something that no one else gets to do which is travel the world and just spend time with your friends and do some amazing things. Which is weird. So I was the same.

29:54If my kid ever watched Me and Chelsea, I'd be like, also it's a good reason to be like, don't do that. Don't do that. What I did there, you can see where I went wrong. Man, it was like the greatest, it was like the greatest time ever and we had some real ups and real downs. Like a lot of, man, it was a lot of downs. A lot of downs kicking about. Oh my God. A lot of downs. Between us two Or just in general? I was like, why do I feel so anxious? I didn't really understand a lot of things. But like, okay, I always say the same thing. Harry Styles, when he won a Grammy, he got up on stage in front of the world and he could have said anything he wanted to.

30:29And he said, I want to thank the X Factor. And I want to thank my brothers who were in One Direction with me. He said anything. He was like, that's my roots. So I really like accept. MSE was so fun, man. We got to like, yeah, hang out and got paid to hang out with our mates and travel the world. It was so great. but it was like also there was some really bad bits there was some really bad bits what was your worst bit oh my god um New York was pretty bad I was there with you oh my god Joey thought he was having a heart sack three times a day for two months my god it was horrendous I was living with Spencer Matthews who was really in the thick of being Spencer really in the thick of being Spencer oh my god we used to I lived with you there Oh man, it was like, there was a lot.

31:17I should have realised, you know the story of my first ever personal appearance with Spencer? No. You must know this. No. This is like my intro into what Made in Chelsea was going to be like. I just started the show and we were invited to do these personal appearances. And that's where you go to a nightclub and basically wave at people. And for the first few, it's really fun. And then it becomes really soul destroying. And I went with Spencer to Reading. and we got to Reading and I was like this is so fun this is amazing and Spencer's like yeah yeah just go on stage and I wave at the crowd and I get paid to do it it's really fun I was like that's unbelievable and he got drunk and he was so drunk and he was stage time was 12 yeah and he got so drunk he was like I gotta go and get like a kebab just to like sober himself up so he went to a kebab like van outside the nightclub and he bought himself like a big um like wrap yeah like anyway anyway he's eating the wrap and anyway he comes into the nightclub and he was like right here i go i'm getting on stage now here we go and he's like this and they went right welcome to the stage it's spencer matthews and the crowd start going wild and spencer walks on holding this wrap Anyway, as he walks on stage, the bottom of it fell out onto his top.

32:36And everyone went, oh my God. And I was watching from the side thinking this is fucking low. And then I should have realised in that moment on that Made in Chelsea was like a weird, wild rollercoaster. It was like a weird, wild rollercoaster. Do you know what? So this happened, this specific thing that I'm about to talk about happened before I was on there. when it was like at its absolute peak. Because mainly shows a lot of people that I realised was at its peak before I joined. And it was sort of the whole like Spencer, Louise, Andy thing. But I get asked more than anything else about that moment on the embankment where Spencer and Louise, who's my sister for anyone who doesn't know, like going at it.

33:20And he obviously goes like, and he goes like, how can I respect you when you let me cheat? That clip still does the rounds on TikTok. when you're that age like and you're like pals with them stuff like back then because obviously now it's so frowned upon but back then i feel like it wasn't as frowned upon well no i think i think it probably was frowned upon for sure but i i think there was not an understanding of like when you did something it was basically it was before real social media was happening yeah so So you could behave and do and say things without really much backlash because who is going to say that and have a comment on that?

34:06You can say it to your face, but you can't write online. No one's really writing about that stuff. So you could really sort of back then get away with much more in a negative way, right? Than you can do now. But like, yeah, I mean, it was... Some of the sort of cheating and the stuff that went on members was not good. But you didn't, but it happened so much because you were just doing a TV show and the currency was drama. The currency was drama. You have to create drama. You're young. You are young. But everyone makes mistakes when they're young. And this is, so this is what I think. But it's not everyone's documented.

34:37But this is something that I attribute positively to the show, right? Which is you grow up fast because you're so, you get told pretty fucking quick when you've done something wrong, right? Yes. So I remember my first relationship with a lovely girl called Tiff. And I, you know, went and did stupid shit when I was early 20. What did you do? Just stupid shit. Like what? And just stupid shit. And did you cheat? And I, but I remember, I remember when it came out. What came out? You're not explaining it. You need to go and watch it. Well, I'm not going to go back to the archives. Go and watch it. Okay.

35:10I remember when it came out, getting absolutely hammered online. Yeah, like hammered. And like, I don't know, when you're that age, you're just sort of like going through the motions and stuff. And you learn so much because you are on a public platform. So I actually think it makes you grow up quicker. Yeah, it does make you grow up quicker. But also, typically when we're growing up, we don't really like, nothing's filmed. So all the stuff that you do, I reckon everyone like in their 20s or early, like late teens have like made mistakes, done silly things, whatever. But we would like film doing it, which, and then I don't think we ever really thought about that.

35:45Yeah. I think we thought, I think we thought like, oh we're going to film but then that's just going to disappear yeah like it's still doing the rounds it's still out there on TikTok I was in a I was in a black cat the other day and he went oh mate are you still doing Made of Chelsea and I was like no no actually I sort of quit it like six years seven years ago and he's like oh I thought you were still doing I think people so it still stands the test of time people still think and but dude it was an amazing show it was a great show so we have asked our listeners for questions surrounding all things you sir are you ready I can't wait okay right we've got a few questions about our iconic made in Chelsea scene.

36:20I'm only just reading this now. I love that. Let's go. Our iconic made in Chelsea scene. I can already imagine what it is. Which one is it? What the fuck do you think it is? We had two. You threw water at me once. Where was that? I was standing, like you threw up but I can't remember what it was for. Oh my God, I remember it. It was at a nightclub. It was one of those nightclubs where you pretend it's a nightclub but it's not a nightclub. Sam was, that was so, do you know, we can say this now. Sam was so sneaky. So Sam had broken, Sam had broken up with, I can't remember quite the ins and outs.

36:50Oh, great. So James is just going to lie to you about this story. No, I'm not going to lie. I'm really going to try and tell the truth. Sam had broken up with Tiff Watson. He had broken up with her. I got dumped. Okay, I don't know what happened. You got dumped or you broke up or whatever. It wasn't the right relationship or whatever happened. And it's a television show, right? And so something had happened where I had, Sam had told me on camera, you had told me on camera that you were like dating or doing or something else with someone else. And I was like, oh, okay, brilliant. I then go and do another scene with Tiff Watson.

37:24Another scene with Tiff Watson. And I say to Tiff, oh, by the way, he's seeing someone else now. Salmon has a go at me. He's like, you told my secret. I'm like, you've told me on a TV show. Like, she's going to watch it. And you were like, I cannot believe no brother would do that. And I was like, what? but wait, I'm really confused here. You've told me, everyone's going to watch it and then she's going to watch it and I've still got hate for it and I was like, what? He's told me, there's cameras there. You know what it's like because then the producers will come in and they'll be like, hey man, fucking Jamie just told you a secret and you're like, you forget that you're, you know, you're completely right.

38:05No, you don't forget. No, you do, you do because when, you know when they come in and they go, oh, he shouldn't have done that, should he? And you're like, no, he shouldn't have fucking done that. actually it's a really good point i would have been like no there's cameras here like it's obviously a tv show i remember throwing water and then he threw water that is the worst how bitchy is that throwing a glass of water at someone but no i don't think it was that i think it was yeah here we go of course it is

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41:30It was when I found out you were dating Sophie, your wife and very nearly the mother of your child, after you'd broken up with me and I said, I hoped you went on to marry her. Yeah. Now this is something that the serendipity of that, by the way, is fucking wild. Oh yeah. And I remember being like, I remember being like, this bastard better marry her because of the shit that he's put this whole friendship through. Fucking, that's pretty mental. Did you know? I didn't even know. Oh my God, actually, this is the question. Did you know from day one that you were going to marry Sophie? Mate, the truth is that I didn't know from day one I was going to marry her.

42:12But like, I, yeah, there was just something. I remember my mum phoning me up and saying to me like, are you dating or whatever? and I remember thinking, I remember saying, I'm dating this person called Sophie, I don't know, something different. When I started dating, when I started like fancying Sophie, it was like something different came over my body. Like I can't, like, I can't explain it to you. It was - What does that feel like? Man, it was like the wildest experience. I like did not, I couldn't, it was like, you know in like Northern Lights? Yeah. And you have a daemon. Yeah. Where it's like your spirit.

42:52Yeah. Like that. Honestly, and you can't be too far away from your script. I felt like that was Sophie. I feel like that was Sophie still now. Like, I can't. Oh, that's so nice. I promise you. I swear to God. She's like my soulmate. I think so. We can hope so. I think so. I always had this dream in life. We used to talk about it at school. If you could see a map of the world, right? You see the map of the world, and there was one blinking light on it, and that was your soulmate. And you knew they were there, and you could go to them. would you go to them? 100%. You would? Yeah. So you would just go straight to the soulmate straight away?

43:26Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn't experience everything else first or you'd go straight there? No, because that'd be the person that makes you feel the most happy and most comfortable. Yes, however, I don't know, because with Sophie we're like, supposedly we're twin flames. I know this is like a weird woohoo stuff. Supposedly twin flames and so your soulmate is also meant to be like a twin flame. So it's meant to show you who you truly are. So it's meant to put a mirror on you. Yeah, and that's really just so at the beginning of our relationship it was so intense because it was a mirror on me and a mirror on her.

43:53So you see who you are for you truly are. And then you realize all your faults and all your issues and all your problems. Because I think in relationships, we disguise ourselves so much. We basically are some one person in a relationship, one person with our parents, one person with our friends, one person by ourselves. But actually with Sophie, it was like you saw all of me. And so then I was like, well, I can't hide anything. And that was quite revealing. Fuck, that's so beautifully put. But at the beginning, we went through, you and I went through a big fallout. But I was like totally and utterly in love with her.

44:24Were you in love with her when I was like at the back end of sort of dating? I knew something weird was with her. When we were in Croatia, I couldn't like be in the same room as her. I found it weird. I found it awkward. I remember in Croatia, this is when you were dating. I was like, what the fuck's going on? I was like, walk with her. And I'd be like, I don't know what to... I was like, do you like dolphins? I didn't know how to communicate with them. I was like, normally I'm pretty good at communicating with people. And I was like, you know, they like waves. She was like, this blokes chat week.

45:00I was like, honestly, I don't know what, and I thought it was, I thought it was because she was awkward. Yeah. I thought it would have been an energy thing. It was a weird energy thing. I remember you called me. I remember this really well. This is why I was actually quite pissed off of you. It wasn't actually the, I've never said this. It wasn't because you had dated Sophie. because that was just whatever. It was because you called me because you panicked. You called me prior and you went, look, man, I'm going to be honest with you because I wasn't on the show at this point. You went, I'm going to be honest with you.

45:29Like I said some things to your ex-girlfriend and I didn't mean any of them. I don't even like her. I don't even like her. And you're like, I said some things. I don't mean any of it. I was like, okay, man, that's all good. I was like, but if you do, just let me know. And you went, and you were like, yeah, dude, all good. All good. It wasn't quite like that. It was like, all good. And then I remember that it happened. I definitely hid it. I was like, what the fuck? I definitely hid it. But. I definitely hid it. I did not tell you, yeah. But what I will say is that I remember the moment that I went, this, I felt so happy for you.

46:07It was weird when I was watching the show, because I wasn't on it. I was too stubborn to message you. But I was watching it. And you had this really sweet, I can't remember what it was. I think you were in Africa, South Africa or something. No, South Africa is when we, that's when it all happened. But it was there. I watched it. And it was a really sweet, you had some really sweet moment. I can't remember what the fuck it was. You had a really sweet moment. Oh, yeah. When I said, I've got a secret to tell you. Mate, yeah, it was that. And I was just like, dude, that's fucking. I was, because it was really bad.

46:38Because I think, but I don't know. I don't know. I'm pretty good at controlling my emotions. I don't think I've really, really probably been in love maybe once or twice. Yeah. Maybe once. So I'm pretty good at resisting it and whatever. And yeah, so in that scene, I remember Sophie was standing there and all the producers had been like to me, you obviously fancy her. And in my head I was going, God, I think I love her. I don't know what's going on here. This is absolutely mental. I just broke up with my ex-girlfriend as well. The whole thing was wild. Look at where you are at now. And I remember standing with her and I remember walking up to her and I remember going, okay, I'm going to tell her that I think I'm - How nervous?

47:24Mad. I was really pretty nervous. And I said, I've got a secret to tell you. And I saw her face freak out a little bit. So I couldn't say it. So I just said, you're my best friend. Oh, it was so lovely. Yeah, it was. But it came across so nice. Yeah, it was. But I think when it comes to... Because I really think, like, this is so cheesy, but I think life is, like, about love. Yeah. Like, it's got to be, right? I completely agree. It has to be about love. You're happiest when you're in love, mate. The happiest. And so I think you've got to push through any barriers or fight for anything for love.

48:00Well, that, I mean, that's fucking beautiful. And I think that the only way you can sort of come... The next question actually was... Have you been in love? Yeah. Who have you been in love with? I can't say. Why can't you say? Can't say. Okay, well, Zara's one. I'll say it for you. There's one there. You've been in love with Zara. Were you in love with Tiff? Yeah. Love with Tiff? Yeah. Anyone else? No. Tiff and Zara? Yeah. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Which hurt more, Zara or Tiff? Different. Tiff first love hurts a bit more. First love, I wouldn't say it hurts more, but I remember first. The worst.

48:38I remember. First love is the worst. Mate, I remember. You actually think you're like, where is that knife? Where have I been stabbed? Honestly, dude, I remember the first, when me and Tiff broke up, I will never forget this, I still lived with Louise at this point, and she came back and I was praying. Yeah, yeah. In my room. I've been there. On my bed, on my knees. Please. Praying. Yeah. Being like, please let the pain stop. Right. I was, I've never, like the heartbreak of that, of like the pain. I've never because you're first ever foray into it the worst and you're literally like what because she was my best mate and I do I was with her for like three and a half four years and so that was a long time from a young age as well yeah so you go through a lot together oh my god I remember my first breakup I it was so bad I was I know they went I'm going to tell us one for you you cried onto the girl's shoes onto the shoes I was like I was in Oxford and she we were like 16 and we were on a bridge together and she was like I'm breaking up with you and I was like sorry what we're going to get married.

49:41Like, what's going on? And so I got on my hands and knees and I remember clinging on to her like top. Imagine this image. Okay, this is shocking. I'm on my hands and knees and I'm clinging on to her like, probably like a school jumper. Yeah. And I went, please don't. And she pulls away. And so my hands fall onto the ground and I start crying and my tears are landing on her shoes. And then lightning strikes. And I went, whoa. Rain. I'm just down. Mate, we've got to get through these questions. I'm really quick. Did you think that we were going to still speak after that whole thing happened? Yeah, yeah.

50:16I just, I knew you had to like, I didn't realise how stubborn you were going to be. I was like, fuck, yeah, I'm stubborn. This fucking guy. Yeah, because I'm not stubborn. I'm like. Fuck off. That is. I'm not stubborn. The biggest crock of poo I've ever heard of my life. I'm not stubborn. We've got to get through these lessons and lie. Did you think we were going to speak after MIC? Yeah. Because you know everyone's in a bubble and then you leave. I don't speak to a lot of people who are on the show. I speak to quite a lot of people. I don't. Well, because I was really close with the Cags and Proudlock and all that.

50:47That's nice. You stay in touch. Yeah, I'm... It's good to know they speak to me. I'm godfather to Prudus' child and Spen's child. That's lovely. I'm not anything to anybody. How did you actually get cast in the show? I don't even know this. They... So Spen... Good game. It's a quick game with this one. Okay, good. So Spen was basically a promoter of a club called Amica. And I used to go to Amica a lot. And I was really close with Spen. I dated Kagi and I was really close with Millie. And I was at Leeds University and they were all, and Rosie was really friendly with Rosie Fortescue. And they were all kind of like thinking about doing it.

51:22And I was like, that's just the worst. Lame. Lame. Are you kidding me? No ways. Fucking idiots. Do you want to do it? Yes. And they went and did it. And I was like, that looks fun. And I had a choice. I'm not gonna have a choice of, I went for an interview at a wealth management company. And the way I got the job is, I thought, I had to speak up the footsie. I thought footsie was a game you played on the table. I didn't even know it was like, I didn't know what it was. Anyway, at the end of the interview, the guy went, I think he was like hung over. He's like, tell a joke. And I was like, all right.

51:59What's Postman Pat called when he retired? The guy went, what? I went, Pat. and he found it so funny. He offered me a job. And I went home that night and I was like, that's like, there's some flaw in the world. Like, how have I been offered this job? And I had a choice of doing MIC because they had been asking me for ages to do it or doing that. And I was like, well, I know my future with this business. I don't know my future with MIC and I want to set up my sweet business, Kenny Kittens. And look where that led you, mate. So basically the moral of that story is always follow your dreams. Kenny Kittens is fucking smashing it.

52:32Thanks, man. Dude, that's been a labour of love. I remember when you first, I remember the first time that you even had that idea. Yeah, it's so exciting. God, I remember it really well. And I remember you had those candy kitten girls. Yeah, yeah. That didn't age well. Yeah, because you wanted to be like the Playboy bunnies, didn't you? I wanted to, and this is where it got shut down pretty quick. I wanted to make candy kittens a mixture between Willy Wonka, a creepy bloke, and Hugh Hefner. Another creepy place. That was the mixture. It was a bloke with some mpa-loompas and a man who just sleeps with younger women.

53:10Mate, you've absolutely ruined that. I have so many exciting news about that as well, but I can't... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is it? Well, we're about to buy another company. What? Yeah. Is that exclusive on this podcast or are you about to say on someone else? Well, no, but I can't tell you what the company is. It's Apple. Sweet. We're about to buy Apple. About to buy Apple. About to buy Apple. Now, people don't seem to believe this, but I genuinely was, like, in all seriousness, in all actuality, I was your PA, wasn't I? Well, yes, you sort of were, yeah. What the fuck does that mean? Well, you kind of were.

53:42You're terrible. I don't think you turned up to work ever. I don't think you ever turned... When was the time you... Where was the office? Fulham Broadway. Very good, sir. Yeah, Fulham Broadway, down that little side alley. Yeah, it was there. And I used to wake Jamie up in the mornings. So Jamie used to be like, I'm not going to wake up, so I need you to be my alarm. so I would call I would set my alarm and then like for like 6 in the morning call Jane and be like you need to wake up big guy and then I'd go back to sleep yeah that was kind of and then I used to go and get laundry for you yeah but this happened for like a week a couple of weeks yeah it happened for a couple of weeks and you fired me did I fire you?

54:16you fucking fired me mate oh my god so basically the feedback was you're shit okay and this is a question that we found in boys am I right in thinking you both have ADHD when were you each diagnosed? Now, I mean, mine's pretty obvious. I did a doc about it. It was in three, fuck me, that was three years ago now. Amazing. I was diagnosed as a kid, but then I just really ignored it. And then I got re-diagnosed again, but for no reason. It's just, Sophie was like, you need to sort your brain out. And I was like, oh my God. She said, you've got to sort your brain out. Please go and do this. And I was like, oh, all right, I'll go and do it.

54:53And yeah, and they were like, good luck. and then they put me on LVNs? like yeah did you like it? no neither I like the concentration vibe I didn't I mean by the way look obviously you have to say it's prior like you know the medication saves fucking lives but it just wasn't for me I didn't I didn't like the the balancedness of it there was something I actually quite enjoy about being all over the place yeah maybe it's the work that we do I don't know how does your diagnosis is then change your outlook on life in what way what do you mean well for me when i got diagnosed it made me accept myself a little bit more in terms of like especially schooling uh i was i mean i was called a disruptive kid i was said that i had no attention span like you know that basically i just was a naughty kid and actually i used to beat myself up about that a lot more so than i actually think i realized because when i got diagnosed i had a film crew around me and i I said to someone, I was like, look, you're not going to get the fucking crying shot that I know you all want.

55:55It's just an ADHD diagnosis. Like, I'm not going to cry. So just, like, be prepared for that. And they were like, yeah, just whatever. And the woman goes to me, she's so lovely. She goes, so obviously, yeah, you've got ADHD, so I can confirm that. You're quite heavily on the ADHD spectrum, actually. She goes, you're a very special boy. And I think you should give yourself a lot of credit for where you are in life today. Bro, when I say I fucking went and I didn't know where it came from, and just came out of my eyes. Sorry. You're a special boy. She's older, 30-year-old man. You're a special boy.

56:27You're a special little boy. Mate, she went, dude, that's the exact words. She went, you're a special boy. And I don't know what it was. I just started crying. A massive weight lifted off my shoulder and it allowed me to forgive myself for a lot of things. Good work, Sammy. At school, but I was just wondering whether you had the same sort of thing. I don't think I had the same. Like, that's amazing that you felt that way. Because maybe, I think I just I think I already understood I was like that so I don't think it changed I was just terrible at school and like I'm like bad at loads of things but so I kind of just knew that I was like yeah that's kind of I know it but also remember I'd been diagnosed already as a kid so I kind of had that already the late stage is always a little bit more I think that's much it and so for anyone who has been diagnosed because you're like wondering for so so long and it changes and when people do get diagnosed it completely and utterly like changes their whole life for the better?

57:18Because it's funny. Oh my God, this is why I've been this way. I saw a bird today. Okay. Well, what color was the bird? Brown. It was a brown bird. It was a brown bird. Oh, um, that's cool. Where did you see it? I saw it on a tree just recently. Really? Yeah. What other birds do you like? You're going to be a great dad. You're going to be a great husband. You're going to be a great father. For people who don't know, that's a trend. the bird trend which I got stung on so bad recently and it shows that your partner cares enough to actually listen to what you're saying. Sophie doesn't, do you want to hear Sophie's?

57:57Yeah, go on. Should I play Sophie's? Yeah. This is Sophie, right? This is, okay, let me get this up. Hold up. If I can get, okay, where is it? Let me play Sophie's. Okay. By the way, I did forget to say I saw a bird today. Don't you dare that camera on me. What? I swear to God if you put a camera in it, I'm not filming you. I was actually just genuinely saying that I saw a bird today Well I need to leave them, there's a fucking camera there There is actually, honestly See I told you, there is no camera There isn't Are you not going to respond to the thing that I saw? A bird? Yes Cool, so I see nose every day That's the only response I get What kind of bird?

58:44There you go Would you like to know what kind of bird? I would fucking love to get Sophie and Pete in a room together. Oh my God. Because they're like others. They're exactly the same. They're others. Maybe I should just fucking marry Pete and we should adopt. That would be a great idea. I genuinely think about it. You should do that. I think we should just get married, adopt, and just accept. Do you think you would be a good couple? Yeah, it would be a brilliant couple. Really? Yeah. We'd be good parents together. I don't know if we'd be a good couple. If you had sex, would you do it missionary?

59:13Yeah, see, this is the thing I've asked myself a lot. You'd do it missionary? Yeah, Pete seems to think that I would take it, but I actually don't know if I would. A lot of the time, the more masculine man actually is a little bit of a trooper. But would you do it missionary, or would you do it doggy, or would you do it spooning? I think I'd probably want to look him in the eyes. Yeah, I think so. To be honest with you. Would you kiss him? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think you've got to, even if it's just a nose rub, like, you know, I feel like you'd want to be, you'd want to be interconnected in more ways than just that.

59:43You know? I think you're right. it's gone far too quickly our producer Pippa's going to have to pick the bones out of that whatever she can do sorry Pippa I blame Jamie fully because we both waffle a lot and go on tangents but Pippa was that waffling? I loved every minute of it what I will say thank you so much for having me Sammy mate I can't wait to see the next fucking couple of years unfold for you man like it's fucking mental in a month's time you are going to be a dad thanks brother and I mean this from the bottom of my heart I think you'll be a fucking good dads I'm really upset that I'm not going to be able to call you asking for life advice for me now because you're going to have a kid that you're going to be sort of giving it all to I think that you and Sophie are probably the gold standard for a relationship to look up to I think you guys are so great and I think you're going to be the most amazing parents I love you very much I'm incredibly proud of you mate the things that you've achieved the things that you've done I look up to you every single day I love you so much and well done Mr Jamie Lane And you're going to come on Great Company.

1:00:44And I'm coming on Great Company within probably like a week, isn't it? Yeah, I can't wait. Within a week. Get ready for that. I'm going to do the exact same thing today. You won't be able to. Just get a waffle. You won't be able to. You won't be able to waffle. I love you, Sammy. Love you. Jim and everybody. I'm going to bounce, team. This has been a Staying Relevant production.

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1:02:11Hello, Relevanters. We wanted to let you know that you can hear exclusive bonus episodes of Staying Relevant every month on Amazon Music. We are going to be playing Snog, Marry, Avoid, one of our favourite games, all with fictional characters. So prepare yourself for Sam to snog Woody from Toy Story and for me to marry Pocahontas. And possibly the genie from Aladdin. We don't know yet. We were sort of like undecided on that one. That's an avoid for me, that one, genie. I don't know. I quite like it. Listen to monthly bonus episodes exclusively on Amazon Music and enjoy ad-free listening on Amazon Music for all episodes of Staying Relevant with your Prime membership.