"I thought I was going to d*e on live TV" | The dark side of building a personal brand with Anisha Joshi, Osteo Allies

0:00Welcome to Strategy and Tragedy, the UK's top 20 business show. If this is your first time tuning in, then welcome. You are in the right place. If you're an entrepreneur building your business and if you're tuning back in, then a very warm welcome. I'm your host, Stephanie Melodia, and I'm so excited to interview my next guest, Anisha Joshi. She is an award-winning osteopath, public speaker, author of Heal Your Back, and entrepreneur who has scaled multi-clinic healthcare businesses. She's been featured in the likes of ITVs this morning, and she's treated athletes, celebrities and even royalty.

0:36Anisha, please tell me it's not Prince Andrew.

0:41No, I can confirm that is definitely not. And I can't mention it. You can't name who it is, can I guess? No. Man, woman? You cannot guess. Okay, this is called... I'll probably get arrested. Client, patient, confidentiality. Yeah, and I'd get arrested. Do you get called into Buckingham Palace? i can't tell you this stuff stop asking these questions all i want to know is which there's a lot of royalty around the world let me put it that way yeah okay nice love it all right we will talk about your business and your growth your personal brand i mentioned in your intro you've been on the likes of itv this morning that's mainstream top tier when you're on tv that's incredible but of course there is a dark side to having a big personal brand.

1:30So tell us about some of the experiences you've had. I know you've been trolled. I know that you've had some panic attacks. These nerves have got the better of you. So let's kind of open up the behind the scenes, the reality of being in the wings behind, you know, these big experiences. Yeah. So I, there was a point where I genuinely thought that I was gonna die on live tv um and let me give you some background first but essentially it was my dream or like I guess the north star um was to I guess be an expert on this morning I feel like it's you know it's like the thing like you say right um if there's any kind of tv show you want to be on And it's like you might as well go for the biggest.

2:22I think it's 1.8 million live viewers. So, yeah, I had dreamt about this moment for a really long time, manifested it and changed all my passwords to this morning and tried everything to get on the show. and it's really interesting because initially the reason I wanted to go on it was because I wanted to take over the world and and see shed loads of patients and make them better um and have a busy business right uh and then it became more than that then it became about the fact that not many people know what osteopaths do and I was like you know I should do this just to represent the profession um and then one day there was an osteopath on this morning uh but I looked into it and I was like okay so there's a lot of white men that are sort of there's a lot of them around but they you know when it came to things like musculoskeletal representation a lot of it seemed to be that and I and then it became more about representing something even bigger being a female being a person of color anyway so it took me I think eight years of wanting it and I finally got the opportunity which as always as people say divine timing I had someone come into the clinic who was a producer and it all just married up and two weeks later it's like boom dream come true amazing but I guess the dark side is that after that first time I had quite a lot of trolling um from others in the musculoskeletal profession um and I was not expecting it obviously at all nothing can prepare you for you know and and the reality is is you go through or go on a show like that and you already are a little bit like oh do I deserve to be here you know there is a bit of imposter syndrome if you're tuning into this right now then first of all a big heartfelt thank you I really appreciate it and secondly there's a very high chance that you're on your own entrepreneurial journey right now so whether you're a first-time founder and you're figuring things out and you feel like you're on your own or if you've done it before and realize that actually this whole entrepreneurship business is a lot easier said than done then I might be able to help you.

5:14If you feel like you vibe with my energy and feel like you need some of that professional big sister direction support and advice then I'm opening up a few select spots for that one-to-one coaching mentorship and growth strategy for ambitious founders. There's a link in the show notes so check it out and I would love to hear from you. All right let's get back to the episode. Can I just ask at this point in the story were you at all bracing yourself for any sort of backlash or trolling or were you just kind of like rabbit in the headlights my dream of eight years is finally coming true what was your headspace like at this moment yeah it was literally like oh my goodness like manifesting work right yeah yeah you know um and this is my dream yeah and it was like yeah like everything went into that moment yeah Like I was mentally preparing for like weeks beforehand.

6:07Didn't tell anyone other than my immediate family. So what happened? What was the backlash? It was just kind of like, you don't know what you're talking about. You're wrong. Or I wouldn't have said that. I would have said this. Did you say anything particularly controversial? I don't think so. But it's like anything, right? You know, one hairdresser will cut your hair one way and the other one will do it another way. everyone's got an opinion exactly but at the end of the day the person still gets a haircut and they walk out happy yeah so is there you know is it really bad that as long as the person that walks out feels better you know it's anyway it's almost like confirmation isn't it it's like oh maybe i don't know what i'm talking about you know or maybe you know because the reality is is i feel like everyone has an element of imposter syndrome yeah for sure otherwise you're just a dickhead right you know what I mean um you're just like so with that in mind it was it was like oh it's confirmation that I I don't deserve to be here and I don't know what I'm talking about um and I think it yeah it really affected me and more than I realized so what happened was the second time so it went really well they were super impressed and I think my first show I was with Eamon and Ruth back in the day and they asked for me to come back like I think so three weeks later they asked me to come back on again amazing which was so cool um they couldn't believe it was my first time on tv wow which is great um second time I I think I just got in my head about all the comments and you don't know what you're doing you don't know what you're talking about all these things and essentially what happened was I was being counted in um to go live and I started to have a panic attack um and I didn't know what was happening because I've never had one before um so I was just like what is happening I felt like I was gonna die I I couldn't breathe I was my whole body was violently shaking um like you know like freezing cold um thought I was gonna throw up on live tv and it was yeah it was really traumatic also could I just say how amazing would that have been because you would have gone viral in an instant could you imagine like projectile vomiting on like over people's granola oh my god on like this morning yeah silver lining so like you could be like 10 times more famous if that had happened yeah i'm being silly because it's but of course in the moment and you're like oh my god like that would be the most horrendous thing to happen right exactly yeah yeah of course and so it was yeah and like there was nothing I could do right so they're literally like 10 9 and they're just and and I'm going like I'm gonna die and they're like the producers behind the camera like doing the count and whatever and he's going are you okay are you okay and I was going because also what's going through my mind is what's happening am i dying also if i this up um am i going to be able to come back again you know they're going to be like yeah it's like you can get cut you know in an instance yeah so it was luckily i only in that moment needed to say two lines or something because it was like an intro to like a phone in and so i managed to get the two lines out and luckily stopped shaking yeah and just get the two lines out um and I did that by literally in my head I was going Anisha you're fine and you just get the two lines out and then if you do throw up everywhere it's fine like or whatever just get the two lines out um and so that's kind of but I was fine nothing happened yeah and that's the hardest isn't it so what I can definitely speak to is speaking on stage which we both have in common which we'll talk about as well in a sec but that build-up I mean research has actually shown that 99 % of Americans because obviously it's a US study but 99 % of Americans would literally rather die than do public speaking which is like understandable right like it is very nerve-wracking even if you've done it a few times even if like us we enjoy it we love to do it but that build-up when you're in the wings and especially the countdown as well like You're going to come out and it's just that build up to getting out.

10:50And then once you get out, once you get those first few lines out, you're like, right, OK, we've ripped off the plaster and then you start to find your flow. But what I definitely need to commend you on is something I've never done is going on live TV. The stakes of that are another level. So I want to give you flowers and pat you on the back for that, because it's one thing going out, doing a podcast, speaking on stage, but to be on live TV. it's definitely an experience yeah um and I mean you know the whole panic attack thing was it was yeah not fun it was really traumatic I ended up with like PTSD from it because obviously in that moment I was experiencing fight or flight right yeah and I couldn't flight or fight yeah I was stuck yeah to having no choice but to be there and deliver what I needed to deliver I couldn't go out and have to get some air yeah or breathe into a bag yeah or whatever it was um and I think that was that ended up I thought it was a one-off turns out it then ended up happening all the time so I started to get panic attacks regularly even in normal like being on the tube suddenly like the doors would shut and I'd suddenly be like you know and I'd need to get like try and get off the tube and while I'm working just even whilst going to sleep I'd be like falling asleep and I'd suddenly go into a full-blown panic attack I'm so sorry to hear that so how many roughly would you say that you've had since that first panic attack on live tv um probably say I don't know between 10 and 15 yeah I wonder whether because you had such ptsd from that moment and it happened to you a for the first time so you've got no idea what's happening touch wood thankfully i've only experienced it once so like first last only time but again because that was my first this is how i can relate to what you're saying like you don't know what's happening you've never had a panic attack before and it actually isn't what the word sounds like you're not running around panicking your your body is you feel like you're gonna die yeah literally that's what that's what it is so not only are you having this horrible experience but you're having it in this high stakes environment I wonder whether psychologically now it's kind of almost opened the floodgates to anything not anything but like these other instances triggering you to have it again yeah I mean I think essentially yeah it was like yeah it was like an opening yeah I think and how are you managing it now well I mean so this was a while ago good you know this was probably the first time I went on the show was must have been about four years ago yeah five years ago so since then when it's well when it started happening more regularly and like in normal situations I literally was like right emergency kind of like I need therapy now like I what do I need to do because this morning wanted me back thankfully I was like I was like oh my god I've messed it up like forever like I'm like this like oh you know like and then I was just like oh they're gonna be like who like weirdo anyway they wanted me back and I was like no I kept saying no and I was like there's only so many no's that they're gonna accept before they go yeah stop asking yeah um and but i was just like i am not ready and so i had like really intensive therapy like two three a week what type of therapy uh psychotherapy and like um the lady i still see um is she does like everything amazing as in like cbt um she's like a doctor yeah in psychotherapy so she's like got all the skills yeah um and i think she basically used a combination of like you know the whole reframing and and coping mechanisms um so about six months after that happened i was like it got to a point where i got another opportunity to go on and i was like it's like that thing isn't it of like getting back in a car after you have a car accident yeah um and I was like I have to do it and it was the scariest thing wow like putting myself back in that situation was it even worse this third time around because of what you've been through the second time well I think as in yeah the fit and the nerves were just through the roof yeah because I had to do a lot of mental preparation like every day I was like visualizing meditating like visualizing it going well yeah um getting comfortable with the idea like putting myself on the sofa and like the feeling my heart rate go up and and what to tell myself and you know it was a real like people just don't even realize that like for and for six minutes of live tv I spent two weeks trying to calm my heart rate down yeah yeah and then yeah like I survived it I didn't you know I'm here today thank you and yeah like it was it went really well and it was like okay I can do this again and I did it multiple times after that but what a journey yeah like every time I was on after that moment I did shit myself every time like is it gonna happen again is it gonna happen again for anyone who hasn't been on stage or live tv myself included in that or any of these other situations when you're sat back as an audience member or indeed even a podcast listener right now it's near impossible to overstate the nerves and the conscious effort you have to make to be good in that scenario it's just I think we do take these things for granted we take it for oh just like tune into a podcast I'll just switch on like this morning over my breakfast um I'm at a conference oh let's just go to this stage and see and it's day and night it's worlds apart when you're just kind of set like I know it sounds obvious right but when you're passively consuming something as a follower as a listener as an audience member versus being the one you're like to your point you're like six minutes on live tv no biggie on to the next one on to the next one this is a daily thing that these guys do but for you this has actually been a deeply traumatic experience it's actually been a deeply transformational like journey for you like you've had therapy you've like had to build your resilience thicken up your skin understandably right but i think it's really easy to dismiss that yeah to not even register what what people go through on the other side yeah yeah I think I definitely have a better appreciation yeah um for sure of what it takes to do that yeah so I'm glad that you still did it you put yourself out there from a business perspective what did that do how did that impact your business because your main business osteo allies as we mentioned before you treat athletes celebrities royalty that's your main kind of business right so how did that impact your company well um from from my perspective it it's instant credibility so from a personal brand perspective I truly believe that people buy people especially when it comes to like service professionals um and I think where I was putting content out there and things like that it was nice to showcase I guess a bit of my personality on live tv in terms of like say revenue um i'll be honest like it did almost nothing to the revenue a lot of people would think in fact i thought i was like guys get your phones out right like prep the team like you know the phone's gonna be ringing off the hook yeah reality is is that um um no one in london watches this morning understandably you know daytime tv um but in terms of your credibility yeah massive did that translate to anything financial for you like were you able to raise your prices because you've got this next level of kudos now exactly yeah so things like it definitely led to opportunities kind of also down the line you know being able to say that you have been on this morning um it I mean you know I do get patience from it still you know and people travel quite far um which is crazy to me to be honest um because I'm like you know they just instantly think you're the best in the world and it's like actually no I just speak well on camera out there yeah yeah but at the same time um yeah it's it led to opportunities like uh being able to be an author and you know getting you know maybe a few more followers on instagram and um brands taking you more seriously uh therefore more likely to kind of partner with you because you're instantly more credible yeah uh so interesting so the compounding effect that it has with these other things so i guess like it's opened up these other doors to have other like revenue stream so with the book for example so congrats on that published by penguin that's amazing what do you think mattered the most with the publishers to get the deal was it the fact that going on live tv got you a bigger social media following and they looked at that follower account was it purely the fact you've been on this morning or is it just not that cut and dry i would say it's probably all of those things it's um you know it's i got approached by an agent on instagram saying you know i like your content and stuff i think that you could you should write a book sort of thing and um i was just like oh okay um you know uh let's see what happens then and then it took me like over a year to like submit a book proposal just because I didn't know what to do as in I was like I don't I don't know how to write a book yeah so I just didn't do it and then this agent kept coming back to me going so uh do you want to write this book proposal anyway cut a long story short it went well something I want to connect the dots on is you mentioned we rewind I don't know 10 minutes ago you mentioned one of my favorite words I don't if you've seen those viral reels with people's pets i know you've got a puppy as well now where people say like their dog's favorite words and film and they're like should we go to park should we go walkies and they see their like ears prick up so my version of that was manifesting it was like oh it's one of my favorite words and i'm super leaning into it as well i'm going like even deeper i'm already a big like visualization kind of girl and everything and i'm owning it um so what i'm connecting the dots on is you manifested ITVs this morning which honestly is just like it speaks to a the power of the clarity of the specific goal because I don't think enough people stop and take the time to think about what they actually want and be specific about certain goals I think it's easy to be like I want to make a lot of money I want to be a famous public speaker or whatever but like you need to drill it down and be like I want to be interviewed on this morning about my profession right so you've got that clarity of the goal and then you've got everything else that kind of you know the effort that you put into it the step the moves that you're making to like make that happen so you've got that on one side of the fence and then what I picked up on is the book deal sounds like that kind of landed in your lap a little bit right did so you didn't manifest the book deal I actually did okay so I'm thinking back to in covid I basically had a whiteboard and I had a list and it was like my goals right or like what to manifest and so number one was speak on this morning number two was um be an author number three was something like get married still waiting um divine timing divine timing um but so it was actually on that list as well um because again i did i thought being an author again it adds credibility right um and it is something i've always i've always liked the the thought of being able for someone say in Spain who has back pain to be able to read my book and and and get better from it and you know it's really amazing to think that I'm helping people that can't necessarily afford to see an osteopath or a physio or whatever yeah amazing um so I'd always like the thought of that so yeah it was actually kind of in it was in there that is interesting because I think the way you told the story was like oh yeah and then it kind of led to this and that what were the steps that you took to make it happen or were you just kind of focused on the top goal with this morning and then everything else fell into place or I want to just kind of like unpack your own manifesting strategy here a little bit what steps did you take to make these things happen well so with the with both things do you mean um so with this morning it was I was trying to reach out to people on LinkedIn messaging them my bio I got a PR company at one point and I was like the ultimate goal is this morning and they were just like yeah you and everyone else and and yeah so it was like I think I think I sent in a video pitch nice like just I that's and then I kind of was like I think I went through three PR companies wow with that as the number one goal um and yeah so that was the the this morning thing and ultimately what do you think succeeded then in getting you on this morning seeing that you went through three different PR agencies because this isn't saying much about them is it well yeah I think there's I think for things like tv and what i learned from the producers um that i'm now friends with is like that they aren't fans of pr companies like they're just annoying yeah to them apparently it doesn't work you could be the best pr agency right but you're just immediately going to be dismissed yeah but it was I think where the PR companies put my profile in front of like I guess in a pile of lots of other profiles it just so happened that this one producer saw my face and saw my profile and actually she said to me I thought she looks different to other great musculoskeletal people that we typically have go on tv and then she booked in for an appointment with me and like I guess I don't know to see what I'm like yeah and if I'm credible um and yeah she she really liked me we got on well I didn't know she was a producer um and that's it literally just happened like that yeah so in terms of what worked I would say I think it was probably I guess PR getting your name in the hat but really I think what ultimately worked was my Instagram profile and personal brand building as well because she did mention that her and another senior producer had been following me for two years on Instagram so I had because this was eight years in the making yeah so I think I was on their radar yeah before it takes time right that's really interesting and you've just got no idea who's lurking who's following especially if like you don't have that specific name in mind it's another follower to add to the account so let's talk about your instagram your personal brand because i want to sort of take it down maybe a rung or two for people who are like okay something like this morning or going on live tv is still a few steps away from me so kind of rewinding on you saying like this social media presence helped it was part of like the steps the rungs on the ladder here I guess first of all like did you were you very intentional about building your personal brand to build your business or was it just something that you were just kind of naturally into and having fun with I was really intentional about it um I actually didn't want to do it um you know at the time I was a young business owner and I was already pretty busy with patients yeah um but I kept getting you know how they say that like a message will keep coming to you until you do it um and I just kept getting the same message from patients in London and a few celeb clients they were like you know you should really do this on social media and I'm like what do you mean do this and they were like you know you should just post and because you're quite funny and relatable um and I just didn't get it I kept going nah I don't have time like really you know I actually didn't get Instagram initially I was just like this is stupid like why would you just I don't understand why you would just post a picture and like I just did not get it anyway I then I think one day I was like okay fine so I made my profile public instead of private and I think I posted a few things and I got some patience through the door quite quickly and I was like obviously ding like oh okay this shit works um and so I was like oh let me do a bit more do a bit more and but I still wasn't necessarily it wasn't about following it was very much about getting bookings as I was trying to grow my London clinic um and then I had some like a patient came in and he said to me look I helped grow this person's Instagram account and you've got shed loads of potential to to really grow um but you're just not posting enough you know and things like that and I was going oh you know anyway cut long story short he was like like give me three months or something and like a free treatment each month and I'll help you so he helped me for a bit and then I got so intentional about it just because I was still shit at prioritizing it because you do right when you're owning a business as well you're being pulled in so many different directions right so in the end I actually made my audience like made myself accountable to my audience and I actually said um okay hi guys I've decided like over this is overnight on a random day I was like I've decided that I'm going to post every single morning on my stories a tip for you guys I don't know if you remember or if we hung out then but basically I used to do like an osteo tip every morning and so I did that was like this I had to do it every single day without fail and I did that every single day for I think two years wow or three years wow including Christmas day wow New Year's day Christmas osteotip yeah imagine how many freaking joints like I literally was like there must be a joint in the ear or like a joint in the ear I was just like if you do this with like honestly like seriously it was and but it I think it really worked obviously people got used to wanting to see what I was gonna say what's really interesting is almost like how you've had to hack your own motivation for something that like you couldn't prioritize completely understand as a business owner like it's all the way down the priority list especially if it's something you're not already into and so creating this challenge for yourself creating this accountability I'd love to hear like that's how you made it work for you the other thing I just want to comment is I also love how this guy offered you this kind of three-month deal and getting the treatments um you know treatment a month instead of the payment and what that speaks to is the creativity also in finding solutions so for example like there might be an entrepreneur listening to this now that's building their business and they're also feeling like oh god I can't keep up and Instagram and linkedin and tiktok and now it's all about sub stack and youtube and whatever i was like oh i could just delegate this or just pay someone for it and everything else but it's like actually do you have you know especially if you are strapped for cash you can't quite afford you don't know what the roi is going to be is there a more creative solution could you offer something else and obviously you want to be fair right so i love this agreement with like give it three months let's see what the result let's test it see if you actually do get the results and in the meantime this is kind of a win-win I'm still giving you something of value you're giving me something of value and um you're making it work right yeah I mean it was great like those three months three months went well um ended up that I started you know paying him a very minimal amount and then you know obviously I needed more as I was getting busier and growing I needed his help more so you know by the end of like you know I think we worked together for a few years um and he got me to like you know the 10 ,000 it took ages um but it you know by the end I was paying him well over a grand a month wow amazing you know as his side hustle but the business savvy there is you're able to you're able to afford a afford it because it it is working it is moving the needle for you But also you're able to justify it because you've already kind of tested it out and seeing and it becomes that virtuous circle.

33:57I want to move on to the business savvy and finances in just a sec. But as we just wrap the kind of the personal brand chapter, I want to ask you, what does your content strategy look like today? How much output are you putting out there and what's working for you now in 2026 in this game of social media and personal brand? um great question so I think it changes all the time right um again when I was trying to grow proactively I posted every single day for six years on my grid and on my stories pretty much um now I post maybe three or four times a week um I batch record content and I think for 2026 um I really the aim for me and this is me telling your audience that this is my accountability partner now nice you're well your audience is my accountability um is that my aim is to double my Instagram following to to a minimum of at least 50k followers um and I'm going to be doing that by testing different sort of types of videos being a bit more interactive um I've tried a few things that are different i think i think there's something to be said about getting out there and like actually putting yourself in kind of awkward positions um and making yourself actually feel uncomfortable i almost feel like your uncomfortability is where people are like oh that's awkward you know and they they because they're like i would never do that but you've got to do it and then I'll follow you this girl went viral on TikTok she had so much success that she was actually picked up again by mainstream media in the newspapers where she did rejection therapy every single day on TikTok and what that meant was literally putting herself out there in these uncomfortable situations like every single day because it was all kind of this confidence building test and it was all this like what doesn't kill you makes you stronger type of thing and i'm trying to think of some examples of what she did but she would um what's one like there was one where she laid down like she just went you would love this actually she just like laid down on the pavement um and then the police were like are you okay can you get up there was another one where she would just uh oh yeah actually there was one where she would just like ask to get something for free so like she'd be in a coffee shop and she'd be like can i have it for free just weird where you're like don't do that like uh or just going up to strangers I need to have better examples that come to mind or just going up to strangers and saying things and actually a friend of mine at the weekend we were outside and this woman went past us and she said to me oh my god I love her skirt I was like oh you should tell her and she was like do you know what I'm gonna do that like every time I see something I like especially on another woman right I'm gonna tell her because like obviously that's gonna make her day it's a lovely compliment but also with a bit of that rejection therapy, that discomfort, I'm going to put myself in those slightly uncomfortable situations to keep like...

37:20Yeah, but I do think that that's what 2026 is about. So can you give us a teaser on some uncomfortable things you're going to try out? Well, just, well, yeah, I mean, we're in London, so just trying to attempt to converse with someone on the street is uncomfortable. Just talking to a stranger in London is like, oh my god you never know what's gonna happen let's just say there was a lot of rejection so what are we talking like the street interview style yeah the mini mic yeah just kind of what will you ask them about like their back yeah so it's it's kind of like one of my i guess usps unique selling point um is that most of the time i can look at someone and see what potentially struggling with yeah um which by the way we're making eye contact here like in half a split second like we both know what we're talking about i need to share this because this is flowers to anisha as well here the first time this is still stuck with me it's she knows what i'm about to tell you it freaked me out it still freaks me out the very first time that we met was like 2020 21 it was during this it was virtual it was over zoom and we had this chat and as we're signing off and saying goodbye anisha being the incredible woman that she is she went to me oh yeah by the way your neck is fucked

38:53she could see what was up with me not only just by looking but by looking at me on zoom which is like you're a witch how did you do that what the hell like I do have a chronic issue with the right side of my neck and my shoulder it's been years and years and she spotted it just on zoom just by looking at me virtually 2d not even in person just by looking at me that was so crazy yeah I guess that's yeah that's my usp by the way I I your magic superpower you witch so usb yeah my magic superpower you're a witch um just just to caveat that um or disclaimer it i did then go on to explain and help steph with her neck i didn't just say that she was fucked and then fuck off good luck with your life yeah bye um calcified neck but um yeah so you know things like that so you're going to do that on the going back to the new social stress you're testing out you're going to do that on the street with strangers yeah so some of that i would wear a bulletproof vest if i were you i'd be praised for getting some punches oh yeah you're gonna go around actually so it's already happened the filming okay so yeah excited to release it yeah yeah there's just a few like it's like say it's seeing what lands yeah um but i definitely think it was uncomfortable and all this yeah i'm sure it was all this what we were talking about has been focused on instagram so are you looking at other channels as well or just doubling down on that one i'm always looking at the other channels um I have been for probably five years but uh no again 2026 I'm hoping that I do actually execute um YouTube um and TikTok what would you say to someone who's like feeling that overwhelmed with like one thing is you know what you've talked about okay now you've reduced your output on Instagram but it's high it was daily that's just on one channel and we were talking about this before but it isn't just a case of like re-sharing reposting the same content across different channels they're very different from Instagram to YouTube to LinkedIn they are like they each need their own kind of strategy so what would you say to someone who's kind of like oh my god feeling that overwhelmed with all of it nowadays there's a lot of automation and AI to kind of help there's a lot of ways now where you can repurpose your content and probably there are ai tools where you can say take this video and make it more appropriate for linkedin or take this caption and make it more linkedin focus or whatever it is um which will save you so much time and i think that's where or that was where i guess my apprehension was but also i think the audience of Instagram are my at the time they were my perfect client yeah they're the people that are going to come in and book an appointment I'm so glad to hear you say that because definitely from my perspective it's eyes on the prize and focusing on where is your target audience hanging out what is it that you want to be achieved because I think it is so easy to fall into that trap of shiny object syndrome and especially with all the different content channels and socials I I mean, who remembers Clubhouse, by the way?

42:20Exactly. I don't know what Clubhouse is. Anisha's face is everything. This was, exactly. Aren't you younger than me? I don't think so. I've just got a baby face. But this was exactly my face. This was the buzziest, hottest app of 2020. This was like all anyone was talking about. With the audio. It was just the audio only. I don't. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember. But like, see how long it took you. Yeah, same. but like your first facial reaction was everything the time it's taken you to be like do i even fucking remember this but my point is that it was like this was the hottest buzziest everyone was piling on everyone was like right you know i appreciate this is six years ago but this is exactly my point and so it is easy to fall into that travel i should be here i should be there but i think it's really easy to spread yourself so thinly and you know our time our energy and of course our money is limited it is fine at more our time than anything else and so you just want to be focused on just kind of once you've chosen instagram comes very naturally to you it's where your ideal target audience is hanging out win win win ticks all the boxes double down and focus on that and then i think because you're at a point where you are doing so well it's like okay maybe start to cross pollinate and experiment with some other channels but you're very clear in your hierarchy of what's the top priority anything else you wanted to add on social media before we move on so earlier we teased a bit about kind of financial savviness as a business owner so we use the example of this social media guy helped you out and before you could fully commit to paying someone you had this kind of more creative arrangement which I love but we've had some mishaps along the way we all have what was your 100 000 mistake right so it still hurts oh dear sorry we reopen all the wounds and strategy and tragedy here well you know it makes sense uh but yeah so what happened was i post kind of covid um we had an opportunity to go into business with some other people um who believed in us that's me and my sister um we own osteo allies together and that's the a group of clinics and you know london was doing really well um and it was busy i would say it was for a one room clinic it was oversubscribed right so it was like okay well you know we've got a waiting list got over subscription doing really well super profitable obviously because the rent is so low um but so we decided to go big right and so we expanded from one room into four um which is a massive jump um and we were just like no be fine you know and like we'll just hire other osteos or you know other therapists or rent out the room and they'll go out and get their you know get some business in as well um so it turns out that not many people want to do that number one because they realize the amount of hard work it is um but also we spent quite a lot of money on like redoing this space um in a prime london location and essentially it was it worked i'd say like broke even for like uh maybe a year after that people bearing in mind though one thing we didn't factor in was that it was still very much hybrid working so a lot of people weren't coming into london still for quite a while you know they were still working from home or only coming in one day a week and the reality is is if you're not free on that one day yeah that they're in that you're not free yeah they can't they won't come in so that was a bit of a nightmare um so in the end it was like then the building put the rent up um by something like 40 percent probably where they'd missed out during covid to reclaim cut a long story short it was like unsustainable so over that course of the year we were like making massive loss on the number of patients that we were seeing versus that rental outgoing um and had spent maybe 30 grand on doing up the clinic in the first place but just so in that mindset of like yeah it'll be fine like it's london right like oh just like do a few google ads and it'll be fine reality is is no you know oh you've been on tv it'll be totally fine right no you know and it was just too quick and like if i was to go back now i'd be like okay let's just take on one other room and actually it's it's ridiculous and the reason not ridiculous but I think back to my own experience and where where I've scaled the other clinics or we've scaled the other clinics and actually we have every single time done it bit by bit we've never jumped that big just gone hell for leather yeah and that was a one time we did and it definitely cost us and just to clarify the reason you had this kind of extra cash in order to do that was this merger you started saying yes with this partnership that kind of came in so there was kind of more of this frothy pool of cash in between with all these businesses kind of coming together yeah but just weren't able to to get that ROI yeah yeah interesting I really appreciate you sharing that reality because especially with mentioning things like we talked a lot before about going on live tv and this morning and everything and I think it's so easy to see the glitz the glamour and to see like literally these vanity metrics and this is why I wanted to ask what did that actually translate to in business terms for you did that actually move the needle financially so I really appreciate you candidly sharing like actually no not really like it did open up these other opportunities and it was an amazing goal that you achieved and actually I would maybe even argue the biggest benefit was maybe your own like in a journey that you've been on through that process right but yeah really interesting to take these kind of business lessons away with your premises upping the rates so drastically overnight what are your thoughts on where that leaves kind of the property market businesses that still need these physical spaces because of course there's this argument that like you're driving these businesses out into other places where like who's going to replace like who's in your old offices and then who are the customers that can afford to go and absorb this 40 increase in rent you know like how is this economically making sense well I can give you an answer for that yeah what I think um well I know the people that have gone into our office yeah um what business is that aesthetics interesting so i would say that's definitely one of the kind of service care businesses because at the end of the day you know fair play to them like it's expensive right so where they are seeing you know i'm seeing someone for half an hour and it might be 80 quid you know they're seeing someone for half an hour and it's 200 or 300 quid um so like that roi is much higher yeah yeah that is really interesting yeah because the reality is is people are more likely to spend money on how they look yeah and how they feel yeah unless they're desperate yeah and they literally can't move that is so true it's an uncomfortable truth right that you're confronted with yeah but it is true you should have asked me to guess what business came in as soon as you know as soon as you said aesthetics i was like that makes a ton of sense yeah if you think about it as well if you just google it yeah the amount of aesthetics business even in dubai for instance like majority of clinics that's also mainly based on aesthetics and then it's like everything else is like an add-on yeah yeah really interesting and the premises you had they are really nice and so it also fits with not only the fact that it's london they kept all our panelling our colours and everything i know that just hurts even more because it's like we spent 40 grand on that and they just got to keep it i'm so not surprised i mean look take the compliment right like i know i know i'm said that because I know how gorgeous the the clinic looks I was like oh that totally fits and in my mind I was like I hope they've kept all of what you put there because it definitely fits the luxury you know especially that specific location where's the business at now so obviously you had to scale things back how how's it going at the moment the business is good um I would say that you know we have a regular stream of uh clients coming through the door you know it's a multidisciplinary clinic in Hitchin in Surrey and in London and we work together it's a great team and it's yeah it's doing well I would say also from my perspective I think I'm in a different headspace where I'm using my time a bit more effectively things like I feel like I've just naturally in fact probably my whole life that things have just kind of gone with the flow like I feel like I get messages and then I just action them and I think I I've been approached so many times by other service professionals whether that's hairdressers or dentists or osteopaths and they're like how did you scale your business or how did you how do you post on social media and do this and this um and so I've been actually doing a lot more like mentoring and stuff like that and I found that really just really rewarding as well as helping people out of pain it's great to help people out of pain in a different way yeah yeah I love that well entrepreneurship is all about solving pain points right and you are literally doing it both physically as well as in business so what does your time look like at the moment how are you split across the public speaking treating patients mentoring I would say that I'm treating patients maybe say 30 % of the time I'm running the clinics probably 40 and then the rest is kind of public speaking and I guess PR and mentoring but the aim of this year is to kind of rejig those percentages a bit um to kind of I guess what's more manageable from a lifestyle perspective but um yeah just also what makes sense yeah because I did want to ask as well practically like how you are organizing your time like you have to be very rigid about like Monday's my content creation day Tuesday I'm in the clinic like is it that sort of divided yeah um but it doesn't obviously always work like that um there's so many entrepreneurs out there on social media that are like this is my blocked time right you know and I remember looking at people like that um Grace Beverly yeah since love her yeah um I've treated her she's amazing um and I look up to her as such a massive inspiration and so I'd look at her content and I take every word she says and I'm just like wow you're like the goddess right and she does all this time blocking and I've got her daily planner and all of this stuff and then when I'm trying to do those things it doesn't quite work right because then you I might be writing content and then all of a sudden I get an email or a phone call from a practice manager at one of the clinics and they're like oh you need to deal with this the boiler's broken and I'm like okay and then someone's like oh you need to pay that invoice and so you end up and then you feel like you're not doing what you should be doing because you've not been so rigid yeah so I have one thing that's helped me is I actually am very lucky and I'm aware that I'm very lucky that I have a videographer for now and so like we plan a shoot and he it's like an appointment right um and that helps with the accountability yeah it's just the same as what you're saying before with your followers and my audience and stuff it's that accountability yeah and yeah I think actually maybe in 2026 I need to like have appointments with people maybe you and I should have an appointment I'm up for that to like where we meet up once a week and we make sure we just sit and work yeah together but on one thing yeah it's so underrated because it is so easy to get like pulled in all these different directions so we need to find these ways to create that kind of that rigidity you you have to yeah all entrepreneurs have to create a full sense of urgency they have to create the boundaries the rigidity around that and and actually honor them as well right because it's one thing to buy grace beverly's productivity planner it's one thing to oh yeah okay that sounds a good idea but it's actually putting it into practice and actually it is when you get those other requests other distractions where it does put those things to the test right like it's all fine and well to be like I'm gonna go and do this it's only until something else comes along that actually puts it to the test I mean the reality is though is that I think her whole planner thing works um nice but I think where it works for someone like herself is I think where it works is if you're a complete startup or if you're in her position almost because she's got the ability to be like the boiler's broken sondra deal with it yeah exactly you know what i mean yeah yeah whereas when you're in that middle ground yeah it's like you're still the doer you know what i mean yeah yeah so it's that kind of thing i think it's the systems around it to help you to kind of yeah stay on track with the game plan yeah my traditional closing question this show is called strategy and tragedy because often the best lessons come from the biggest tragedies or mistakes and you sure what's one tragedy that's taught you an unforgettable lesson i would say when i was younger i experienced uh bailiffs coming to my parents door and seeing my mum you know begging literally begging them to not take things away um and I think I was six years old and me and my sister super young and I think that that obviously was extremely traumatic at the time to see that um but I do think it's kind of shaped my mentality and kind of who I am as a person in terms of that I guess drive work ethic ambition and also just kind of appreciating and being grateful for what I do have and I think that yeah I think that's probably the biggest tragedy but it strategically led me to where I am today so being six years old is obviously it's such a kind of it's such a young age and it's so kind of these these kind of drastic things that happen are so kind of formative for you connecting that to your work ethic and drive now is that because you were like I never want to be in that situation where someone else can come into my house yeah it was I yeah I don't want to be in this position where I'm begging someone to not take stuff away from me or um you know I don't I just yeah I don't want to ever be in a position where I am this upset or you know someone else has the power yeah essentially yeah yeah um so I think that's what shaped it yeah scary well I'm glad like a phoenix from the ashes you've taken this like traumatic experience and actually kind of funneled it in you know a positive way anisha thank you so much for coming on the show pleasure to interview you on strategy and tragedy and thank you so much for tuning in and listening episodes are weekly so if you're not already subscribed what are you waiting for i hope to see you again next week take care bye