"My failed business made me a better investor" | Mona Tiesler, tokentus (Replay)

0:00This is amazing. I don't think I've ever heard that story of someone who's gone to like this much effort and time and money. I think that's also why it didn't work. You're trying to figure out how to build this from zero with really no money. It took me a while to not be offended when somebody said no. You just hear no, no, no, and you're like, I'm doing everything wrong. It's now an edtech unicorn. To this day, that was a really good decision. Learned a lot. people smell desperation or fear. Not quite the perfect CD. Not really what we're looking for. Kind of, but not really, right? There was always a better candidate trying to overcome this, you need a warm introduction.

0:43Now I look for that in founders when I evaluate startups for investment. If the founders are really committed, a good VC should always be there as a sounding board to help you. From corporate life in London to entrepreneurship in Germany and then an MBA in Singapore and Paris, Mona Teesler is now a full-time venture capitalist working for Tocentus as a Web3 investor. Mona, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to have you here. I cannot wait to get stuck into your career trajectory because I mean it's been all of the things, right? You've had both the corporate, the entrepreneurship, but it's also taking you across all these different countries.

1:25So where should we begin? Good question. It's definitely been a journey. Yeah. It's definitely been a journey. So you did study in Scotland at St. Andrews, which is so cool. Where did you, what did you study? Sorry. Yeah, I studied management and psychology as a double major. Amazing. So back then I didn't really know why. I just enjoyed those subjects. Now I think it's actually a really good combo. I was just thinking that. they actually sound really useful really interesting and you know most people at that age don't know what they want to do obviously so it's kind of like oh just you know where's my friend signing up so that sounds that sounds really cool and then from there so you went from to originally from Germany went to Scotland and then in and then down to London to start your career properly your professional journey which was in management consulting is that correct so you worked for these big guys and then from there is when you went you made that leap into entrepreneurship right so talk us through that story what was your startup yeah um perfect summary there um yeah my my journey initially four years as a management consultant was a really good start um but I really wanted to do something more entrepreneurial and I got a great opportunity to go back to Germany and launch and grow the German entity of an education technology startup that had actually had been originally founded in New Zealand.

2:52Oh wow okay. So it was just to throw another country in the mix. Just to make it a little bit more international. It was really a cold outreach on LinkedIn and I just thought you know this sounds like an amazing challenge. Wow. Let's jump in the deep end. As in them to you cold outreach they head hunted you to go and launch this side of the edtech business in Germany from New Zealand is that correct exactly okay exactly so you were like general manager or country manager for that entity okay exactly I I founded or yeah even registered the German entity and then grew that entity and was in charge of you know Germany Austria Switzerland and it was a really really exciting journey, you know, because even though I didn't do the product building, I really learned a lot about market entry, about hiring staff, about building a offering that is actually originally targeting a completely different market.

3:53So it was a great experience. I really enjoyed it. What's really interesting about that opportunity is it sounds as though it's the closest that you could ever get to launching and building your own company without it fully being, you know your own baby that you came up with initially right because you're still you're setting up in a whole new country you mentioned market entry you're just you're taking something that's someone else has thought of and it works somewhere else but everything else is on you basically so it's like 99.9 percent entrepreneurship that's honestly how I felt as well I was like this is great it's like taking the leap to be an entrepreneur but with a little less risk yeah And so I just thought it was like a real life MBA in my thought process at the time.

4:39So I just said, awesome, let's do it. Let's let's try this. And I to this day think that was a really good decision. Yeah. And I really, really learned a lot. I bet you did. It must have been absolutely night and day compared to your life in corporate. Right. Yeah, it was. It was from the topic because all of a sudden I was dealing with younger students. students, teachers, parents, educational institutions, and, you know, hiring a workforce that was very different from the people that I had worked with in consulting, right? Different backgrounds, different growth trajectory, ideas about their career.

5:20So it was really challenging because you learn so much about yourself by having to tailor a product, an offering to a customer segment to, you know, a completely different group of people before you were dealing with, you know, executives and big companies and making slides perfect and every line was perfectly aligned with the next line. And here it was more about, look, we need to build something fast. We need to get the right people on board. We need to do the right sales, the right marketing and make revenues. So it was a great challenge. What were some of the key differences that you experienced compared to your previous role in corporate versus the edtech startup?

6:04It was really that in the management consulting business, my role was always different industries, different projects, different clients, and also different team compositions. Here, it was, you're starting really small, right? You're doing all the admin yourself. You're really trying to figure out how to manage and build this from zero with really no money. And you're dealing with a completely different customer segment. You have to learn how to sell and you have to learn how to market. and you're not dealing with executives or you know people that want consultants to support maybe a big digital transformation but you're dealing with teachers who might want to support their students better or students who want to get support for going to Harvard or Stanford because the edtech business was an admissions consultancy so it was really a complete everything was different I think I'm just imagining it what were some of the biggest like shocks to the system what were the biggest challenges you mentioned that you didn't really have any money building this thing but and yet you've got to do you build something out of nothing you mentioned about kind of sales and marketing and it sounds that you didn't really have as much of that experience before the ed tech and then of course you've got completely different audience you've got something in new zealand does it necessarily translate over to germany like i'm already just imagining all of the potential challenges what were some of the biggest like shocks to the system for you in that transition?

7:36I think from being supported with amazing colleagues that have so much knowledge and hustle and grit to being all alone, you know, in a country that I hadn't lived for quite a while because I, you know, for nine years I was in the UK. So I came back and I didn't actually know how Germany worked really. And so it was quite a challenge, even the language, even though my native language is German, to work in German was actually quite challenging. And the biggest challenge was definitely the sales. Because you really, in order to survive, in order to build this company, in order to be able to hire people to help you, to work with you, to be on this trajectory with you, you needed to make enough revenue to pay their salaries and the insurance and all these things, right?

8:30So you went out and you were like, how do I sell, right? How does this actually work? And so it took me a while to figure out, also to not be offended when somebody said no, right? Because it's like, it's quite a hard lesson to learn, at least for me, when you put your heart and soul into it and you're super nervous and you're like, look, this is a really great opportunity. This is a really strong support network that you're buying into. and you just hear no, no, no. And you're like, I'm doing everything wrong. Do you realize, no, it's maybe just not the right product or right project for them.

9:07It has nothing to do with your personality. Or maybe it's just a different messaging you need. That's such a huge life lesson. And I feel like there's no shortcut to experience and you have to go through those rejections to thicken up your skin. It's really funny that you say that. I believe that all kids should spend a summer. I think when you kind of between high school or before you go to uni or maybe the first year of uni, I feel like if I were queen of the world, I'd get every young person to do like a summer, a summer holiday, just a short stint working in like hospitality, working in like a bar or waitressing.

9:44the amount of stuff that that teaches you the life sort of stuff you know sales yes as well as your customer service and multitasking and a bunch of other things but it sounds as though you know it would have been nice to maybe have that add-on sales to your management and psychology course at uni right I agree that's such a life skill like I feel like we all need it so how did you kind of brush up on that skill that you felt was lacking again we're still in this era of your ed tech kind of startup in Germany. So that was, you said, that was the biggest shock to the system, biggest challenge. How did you overcome it?

10:19Did you just kind of throw yourself in the deep end and just kept picking yourself back up again? Yeah, it was a multi-strategy, I would say. In hindsight, right? In hindsight, yes. On one hand, I also learned to reach out to the original founders of this startup and the New Zealand team. And I was like, how do you do it? Can you maybe help me a little bit and coach me how you, even if it's a different market, but how do you actually speak to, you know, your market participants, the people that you sell to? And that helped me a bit because I was like, ah, right, that's actually a very good way of phrasing something that took me a really long time to get across.

11:04right and I also looked at my network and I just reached out to a few people on LinkedIn that I thought could be mentors and I just asked for you know an hour of their time and tried to see you know what learnings or what tricks or like little little bits and bobs they could give me nuggets of wisdom yeah and have any of those stuck with you because I feel like our listeners really love those like those little nuggets of wisdom those little practical tips can you remember any however small just like anything practical that you remember from that time that helped you with sales so one of the things I do remember is that people smell desperation or fear yeah that's a big nervous energy, the more likely it is that the person will listen to you, that they will actually really think about what you're offering, because otherwise it gives not a good feeling, right, to the person that you're talking to.

12:16And it just makes the whole conversation a little bit awkward. Right. And once I kind of thought, okay, be calm, smile, you know, if this doesn't work, it doesn't work once I had that more of a calm approach things went a lot smoother and I actually was able to strategize much more and had much more brain capacity to think things through rather than worrying so much about not being good at sales interesting I love how this links back to your psychology course as well almost right because it's the uh it's the power dynamics It's like no, no, no one wants to be sold to like even salespeople, like nobody wants to be sold to.

13:00And the whole kind of sales person, even the job title, like the job title doesn't exist anymore. We've all got business development executives, customer success, like SDR. But it's like it's become such a dirty word because of bad salespeople. And it's exactly as you say, it's that desperation. It's the it's the chasing. It's just annoying. It's just a niggling, nagging, annoying thing. So, yeah, I totally agree with you on that one. All right. Love that tip. OK, so moving on. So how many years were you working for this ed tech startup in Germany? So full time, two years. And I actually, until last year, still owned the entity until it was acquired by the UK entity that had by then become a very large entity dealing with the rest of Europe.

13:52so it was just a natural merge or kind of like a mini acquisition right and um did they buy your shares yes congratulations yes so that was nice so in the end that kind of worked out for me in that way quite well and um it also worked out i think for the overall management of a now very global company it is now an edtech unicorn um based on new zealand standards so in new zealand dollars um which is amazing because the founders are absolutely you know incredible so they really deserve to you know get that unicorn status for their company because they worked so hard to get there fantastic so deserving I love that so you're there two years full-time and then are we coming on to your MBA at this point exactly exactly now before we get into that I know that you said to me before this was you took this decision like very strategically you knew what you wanted to do afterwards so we're kind of leapfrogging ahead a little bit because you knew that you wanted to go into venture capital is that correct that is right and you knew that kind of you these were the steps you needed to do in order to achieve that so I love that strategic thinking of yours obviously trained management consultant there which is excellent um but so first of all why did you want to go into VC how did you know that that was the thing you wanted to do because obviously taking out that much time and money to do the MBA is a big decision.

15:21So you're placing your bets on that. So how did you know VC was the route for you? Yeah, it's a good question. I was really searching for the right path. And I did that by looking at what I enjoyed during my management consulting years, and what I enjoyed during my venture building or growth market entry days. and I identified the following points. Number one, I liked the project-based work. I liked working with different teams, different people, and I liked having to think about different industries. That was the management consulting side. And then from the more entrepreneurial aspects, I really enjoyed building something young from the ground up and really thinking about go-to-market strategies and hiring and the right path, roadmap.

16:17So what brings those two things together? And after a little bit of research and talking to people in my network, I realized venture capital because it is project-based. It is research-heavy. It is very working with different teams, right, different challenges. But it is also very entrepreneurial because if you do early-stage investing, you're working with early stage companies that might need your support your knowledge and you can problem solve with them help them grow so can I just ask that period of self-reflection that you described but you were like what did I love about this what I love about that was that just like you on your own just taking that time to reflect or was it working with a coach did you seek out like a careers consultant just while we're still in that kind of taking your mind back to those earlier exploratory days I didn't use a career consultant I did do this on my own I think I think the psychology background and frameworks I learned did help me because you know you naturally are open to these kind of frameworks and thought processes that help you navigate a little bit through what do I actually want and need and what are my real skills.

17:38But I would always say, if that's not something that comes supernatural to you, then using a career coach is actually very, very helpful. I have many friends who did that, you know, in different times of their lives, somewhere between 18 and 45. And I think most of them really made a massive positive change because of a career coach. The reason I ask is I know if I'm just left alone in a room to just think I just feel it does work for some people maybe more so those who studied psychology so I'm very happy to hear that a university degree actually came in handy to someone um but I just won't get anywhere I'll just kind of I'll just circle in my own mind so I definitely need to get it out I know for some people it's journaling it's getting it all out on the page writing it down for me surprise surprise as a podcast host I need to talk I need to get it out of my system.

18:31So that's just why I'm curious. Okay, amazing. So you took that time of self-reflection, your psychology frameworks came in handy there, you came to that realization, actually VC could be the answer, I'm going to speak to some people. And then through those conversations, it was kind of a fact finding mission for you, right, to then lead up to taking the MBA. So what was the feedback from the people that you spoke to at this point in time? Yes, the feedback from people I spoke to and also companies that I applied to, which were all the way from kind of accelerator to pure venture capital funds, was always like, look, not quite the perfect CV.

19:12Not really what we're looking for, kind of, but not really. And the feedback I received was a lot like, look, you did consulting, but you didn't really work in financial services consulting. So you don't really have that financial services background. You did do entrepreneurship, but it wasn't your own startup. You didn't found it. You didn't build the product. You didn't fundraise for it. So also not quite the entrepreneurial view or experience that we look for. So not really. right there was always a better candidate than than me and the feedback was never very very bad it was just always like look just not quite not quite yeah so I was like hmm how do I how do I fix this even though that's maybe the wrong terminology but how do I achieve my goal because it doesn't seem to be working through just sending a CV through a online application process So I thought a little bit more, talked to more people, asked for feedback.

20:19So one of the things I really learned is just to say, look, thank you for taking the time to interview me. If you took three or so rounds to speak to me, please provide me like proper feedback. Right. Because we both spent a lot of time in this process. And then the feedback was like, look, do something like an MBA or something in relation to get your financial services knowledge up to par to be a better candidate. I was like, OK, it's actually helpful. It is something I can actually action. Exactly. So I was like, OK, and that's something that makes sense. So I ended up applying for INSEAD. I chose INSEAD as an MBA university because it's only a year.

20:58So it was a bit shorter and the average age was around my average age at the time. So it just made sense for me. It seemed like the right fit. Luckily, I managed to get in and did my journey then in Singapore and in Fontainebleau, which is close to Paris, and did a variety of different things during the MBA to still get my profile up to, you know, par for a VC. Because even after the MBA and I graduated during the pandemic, I still struggled a little bit with the VC stuff. So what were some of the other things that you were doing to improve your chances? So firstly, I did an internship with a B2B deep tech fund in Singapore.

21:42Then I also was told, look, you don't really have entrepreneurial experience, which now I like to beg to differ. But I said, OK, you know what? I'm going to think of something and I'm going to found a startup. so that's when my actual personally co-founded startup came into being which is a food tech click and collect marketplace and I was like okay I'm gonna really learn how to fundraise I'm gonna really learn how to do this and hopefully make something out of this and this whole time this is still with the end goal in mind right of getting into VC yes this is amazing I don't think I've ever heard that story of someone who's I mean definitely not someone who's gone to like this much effort and time and money and everything else or you know not only an MBA but also it's taking you across the other side of the world to do this in Singapore you're doing internships in the meantime as well and I just think it is it's so fascinating to then go and like set up a business almost as a almost as like an interview task right it's like I'm gonna prove to you I can like I do have that entrepreneurial vein in me so I'm going to show I can imagine that that must have led you to have a much healthier mindset than most other than the vast majority of other entrepreneurs who go and sell their businesses because if you what I'm imagining do of course correct me if I'm wrong but having a bit of that mental separation and treating it more as like it's another rung on the ladder to help me achieve that next goal you haven't got as much of that that ownership that territorialness that emotion that other founder where they're like no this is the end goal for me right you're treating it more as an interview task would you say do you think that's fair to say yes but I think that's also why it didn't work oh okay interesting yeah okay that was gonna be my next question I wonder okay yeah so I had a co-founder who was more of an operational day-to-day co-founder, which obviously very important.

23:46I was more the strategic, the financial, the fundraise, the go-to-market planner, not so much the executor. But I strongly believe, and now I look for that in founders when I evaluate startups for investment, if the founders are really committed and if they do have that ownership. interesting because I didn't and I think that is one of the major reasons why that startup never flourished to the extent that I still to this day believe it could have and um that's actually a real shame wow interesting well kudos to you for recognizing that and you know admitting it so to speak so so you'd say then that like because you did not have like the I'm gonna like die by like this is what this is my life's mission this is what I was put on the earth for because you didn't have that level of commitment you think that was one of the reasons that it failed ultimately I would say so yes wow okay do you think there are any other reasons that contributed to really difficult time to start a click and collect marketplace when there's a pandemic going on and you're not allowed to have any in-person interaction um the reason for that being because you know delivery services take a really really high percentage of the restaurants um revenue and And it was just a way to reduce it.

25:10And it was also a focus on food waste reduction. So I think the mission was something I still very much stand behind. It was just a really bad time to think about launching this. And then it took a really long time to really get off the ground. But I definitely think that that's a, let's say, macro factor. but the real strong or main reason I think is if you're not 100 % committed to something why would anybody give you a lot of money to to grow it if if you're if your heart's not in it it doesn't make any sense yeah interesting so how far did you manage to take this business so we did raise about 150 ,000 and I kind of precede round we did launch in Nottingham in the UK because we wanted to not be in competitive London but we wanted to be more in the Midlands and then expand into Scotland and maybe be an interesting target for a larger player to acquire us down the line who maybe started in London and doesn't want to expand themselves into that area that was kind of the strategic plan I was just going to say always strategically thinking I love that um but yeah I didn't really manage to we didn't get to manage to onboard so many restaurants um I wasn't on the ground I think we had a little bit of trouble with the sales and so um yeah I think that was but the the company is still alive it's just a very small business well kudos to you I'm so impressed I mean the fact that you still I think success failure everyone's got their own definitions it's all subjective but I love that you are able to kind of step back and and kind of assess what happened where it went wrong and and use it for that next step so we now get towards you kind of achieving your your final goal here so you've eventually got into VC so congratulations is everything that it lived up to be I have to say people told me why are you doing so much work it's not going to be what you expected and I was like Like, I know it's going to be what I expected.

27:22And I can really say it is what I thought it would be. And I'm super happy. That's exactly my feelings with the Barbie movie. Everyone was like, Steph, you're getting so hyped up. And I'm like, no, it actually is great. There we go. Perfect. So I totally relate. I can completely empathize. Well, no, mate, I'm really happy for you. That's fantastic. So you're now at Tokenta. So you mentioned before, you know, what you now look for in a founder. So obviously it was going to come on to that as well. So if it's mainly entrepreneurs that are listening to this, whether they're thinking of setting up something or they're in the early days or they're kind of going through that fundraise at the moment.

27:58A, it's just so fascinating. I just love that you've been through this journey of employment, entrepreneurship, education. And now you're seeing things from the other side of the fence. So what. OK, so first of all, what can listeners take away from your advice from the VC side of the fence? You mentioned before you look for founders who have got that strong commitment. What else is it that you look for? Strong commitment, just to repeat that point. Also, the strong commitment spills over into, for example, standing behind your product and being proud of it. right because then sales are also much easier because you're really so you believe in it right it's not selling something it's just expressing your enthusiasm for your venture baby and I think that's I need to see that I need to feel that also generally I think team overall is really important so are you as a founder equipped for this business or have you gotten the right team members around you that are maybe more technical or have, you know, other aspects in terms of expertise needed to do whatever you're trying to achieve.

29:12Maybe it's a very technical solution. So make sure you have the right people in the team to have that background and complementary skill sets. And also, I think in general, can you potentially pivot, right? Because a lot of the time, we all know things very rarely go in a straight line. And the journey of entrepreneurship is more like a squiggly line up and down circles, left and right. And can you maneuver and manage this and never get discouraged? And if I see those traits in a founder, also based on my own feelings and experiences I've gone through, then I think, you know what, let's give this a try.

29:53and I'll do my very best to also support with you know my experience my knowledge my network to help navigate some of those ups and downs turns and swivels on the way amazing so how many years have you been full-time in VC now now two years okay congratulations yes yay and the reason I ask is have you noticed any patterns or trends during that time at all I mean it's been a bit of a weird two years as well so it's a funny time but within that window have there been any like commonalities or things that have come up over and over or something that you wish you could say to fans don't do this like so to put it into context I work in the web 3 space right so I mainly look at blockchain technology startups so of course that twists this answer maybe a little bit so please just keep that in mind.

30:45But I would say when the market is up, so meaning there's a lot of money in the market, right? Venture capitalists have a lot of money to give to startups and startups have an easier time raising for their venture. It's very important to keep in mind that market downturns might come and they might or probably will come faster than you expect. So So making sure that, you know, you check your runway, making sure that you kind of diversify how you manage potential plan A's, plan B's, plan C's, that you, again, hire the right people, that you have a good strategy and think through your roadmap in a realistic way.

31:34I think that's something that I think is very, very important. And I would like to make sure people think really think about it, because it's one thing to present a nice slide to a VC to get investment. And it's another thing to feel confident about being able to maneuver through bad times. Hmm, fantastic. That's really helpful. Thank you for sharing some of that. What I'm curious about is on the runway piece. It's so funny because I have been in the space for the best part of 10 years now. And I've been around to see a recession come and go a couple of times. And I'm really paying attention to the patterns.

32:12And it's really funny how even like the keywords that come up, you know, now I've never heard runway being spoken about so much. Whereas pre, I don't know, 2021, a runway was something that the plane landed on, you know. So it's really funny how it's, we've been through such a humongous shift. Again, obviously, you've got that context of Web3, particular industry, particular sector, of course, there's all these other micro factors. But very, very broadly speaking, it's like we had this era before of aggressive growth hacking, growth at all costs, gain market share, worry about monetization afterwards.

32:53And now it's, you know, runway, runway, how's your runway looking? We need 24 months, blah, blah, blah. But so what I wonder is like from your perspective as a full time VC and of course all of your other amazing rich experience you bring to the table is what advice can you give to entrepreneurs in terms of balancing that runway and having that more cautious. OK, we've got 24 months in the bank. We've got the buffer. We know we'll still be around versus there are opportunities that we can jump on. there's maybe a certain higher, some talent that we want to bring on that's, you know, demanding the salary or maybe a bigger marketing campaign so we can get more market share.

33:34What would be your advice on that? Again, I would say be willing to pivot, right? I mean, having that plan A, plan B, plan C, I think is important. Having flexibility in your mind. And I would say if there is opportunity for growth, for innovation, then why not go for it? But if there is no opportunity, then think about, OK, how can you create opportunity? However, of course, don't spend all your money because, you know, there's too much opportunity and you can't streamline your, you know, your priorities. That's also not good. So it's finding that balance, thinking it through, but also being able to say, OK, look, we might have shortened our runway.

34:21Now the situation looks a little bit less good than we expected. So what can we do to keep this company alive? Don't get discouraged. Keep on fighting and ask your VC if you have a VC. A good VC should always be there as a sounding board, as a friend to help you. I hope you trust them to ask those questions. otherwise mentors, other founders that have gone through this who can maybe help and navigate a little bit. Amazing. Mona, you make me feel like if I were ever raising investment, I'd want you in my corner. The time is absolutely flying. I feel like I could talk so much more and ask you more questions about the whole investor VC landscape, but we're going to have to move things along.

35:04So I do want to touch on the work that you're also doing, because obviously you do not sit still and obviously very hard-working ambitious women and you're also doing a lot of initiatives in the gender equality space so obviously as a woman in vc women in tech in web three you know it was still the minority so what are you what are you doing with some of those gender initiatives so in terms of women in vc i'm trying to create a safe space in terms of a group and regular meetups for women in VC in London, specifically right now. Hopefully we can expand that a little bit to be able to share deal flow, to ask questions, which might not be as easy to ask in some of the office spaces, just because it's often very male-dominated, specifically in this tech and also Web3 space.

36:00I'm also trying to encourage female founders to take the jump, learn about blockchain, see if they might enjoy this industry, because there is so much opportunity. In my opinion, it's really, really innovative, fantastic place to be. So providing spaces and regular meetups for founders and investors to have a conversation that is not driven by any agenda, I think is really what I'm trying to do. And then also, not yet launched, but working on an initiative that will hopefully be valuable to any underrepresented founder group to provide them with an opportunity to submit their pitch decks and information about their startup and have the security that very good VCs in Europe and the UK are actually going to have a look.

37:03And if they like those, to reach out to the founders to set up a call. So basically trying to overcome this, you need a warm introduction to get into the space as a founder in this respect, but also hopefully through the women groups, also as an investor, just as a lady wanting to, or really anybody I mean I don't want to just say it's just for for women I'm happy to speak to anybody about my journey and help them but it's just the starting point I would say to help women get into the space having a safe space to talk about whatever right asking questions and being seen well done amazing have you got a working name for this yet or is that still under wraps yeah so the initiative is going to be called distributed funding.