Inside the Deals: Bruin Capital, DAZN, & Disney’s Investment Plays

0:06Hello everyone and welcome back to the next episode of Streamtime sports. My name is Chris I'm the community lead joined as always by our CEO, Nick Meacham. Now, Nick, this weekend, my West Ham United were victims of a VAR, video-assisted refereeing controversy. Now, we won't get into the ins and outs of that. There's enough Arsenal fans I've had to argue with. But the Premier League have introduced VAR. The NFL has obviously for a long time had its challenge system, although it's gone through some changes. If you remember the one year they let them decide they could challenge pass interferences and they scrapped that after a year.

0:37um tennis and cricket have obviously been using things like hawkeye for some time with different decisions major league baseballs incorporated the automatic strikes automatic balls and strike system this year i'm seeing more of it but nick where where do you fall in terms of how much we allow technology to to officiate sports oh that's a that's a really good question i mean whenever it disrupts the play as much as it has in football uh it really does take some of it has taken some of the um emotion out of goals being scored and things happening in the game but it is a more accurate result it's a really tricky conundrum i think when it becomes more more frictionless uh like it has in certain other sports where this pace of decisions is getting quicker and quicker like in tennis for example the the decision is pretty quick now compared to what it used to be and I think you know the idea of having a challenge uh for a coach to use rather than every decision being yeah that I think feels like a nicer way because inevitably it's okay that decisions are it's inevitable that decisions are go for and against at times but as long as those coaches had the chance to like jump in when they really believe something else then I think that might make it a bit more smooth and seamless rather than the uncertainty that happens in football right now with decision making um yeah even just like checking the off side still takes a long time for it and then it comes down to millimeters and everyone's umming and ahhing about its validity after the fact even when it's supposed to be you know so scientific and so rock solid so i think it has to be as seamless as possible and you know cricket's been doing it for gosh they were the first really that i could think of doing it and leaning into it properly But even they had, what was it called?

2:26Umpire's call, what they call it. Their margin of error is to, there's like three things they offer in cricket. It's like an LBW or so, the league before wicket, basically hits the pads without the bat hitting the ball. Has to pitch in line and then hit in line, and then they have to decide whether it's going to go on to hit the stumps. and if it's that's the umpire's call but if it's too close to call even uh and now that now that technology has gotten better some of it looks ridiculous where the ball is sitting 99 percent away from the stumps but they're like oh that's out it just looks a bit it looks a bit uh random but yeah i don't know i i'm i'm for it to an extent and it's great i think it's added a lot to the game and hasn't it done something in baseball as well that's been that's great good It's great.

3:14I think so. Whenever there's change, people don't like change, right? Nick, we always get people up in our, I think baseball has done it almost seamless, seamlessly. Like I think it's been a good part of it. So yeah, it's the automatic ball strike. What's really interesting about this, Nick, the fun fact. So with the new automatic ball strike system, you may not know this, Nick, the strike zone is from your chest to your knees at your standing height. It's not about your stance. So people show these little eclipses of little kids where they crouch down. That's not where your strike zone is. Your strike zone is where you're standing chest to knees.

3:41um yeah so what that means is for the ai to work they needed the exact heights of every single player so they could create the strike zone so basically this year as you could imagine players who are six foot two are actually only six foot so again unintended consequences of using ais now all of a sudden we actually have the legitimate heights of every baseball player oh god that's so funny it's funny how people have made up their heights for a long time like some people made themselves taller and then isn't it like kevin durant in the nba that's actually made himself shorter because he didn't want to be seen as uh too tall otherwise he'd be placed in it yeah places as a center god that's uh that's quite funny i wonder how many people have uh one of the worst uh most extravagant measurement is uh it'll definitely be cool definitely someone that was trying to make themselves over six foot for sure yeah definitely around that that that milestone i wonder actually the baseball one seems to be pretty like you said pretty unanimously um positive has there been anything that's come into the market that quickly that you can think of that has had better impact or at least as good an impact and i'm really i'm really struggling with some i mean there's different things that happen like necessary decision making but like things like the fourth the first downline in the nfl i used to love the um when they added the visual graphics overlay for um for swimming um where they would have like the line of where the world record was that were trying to all the fastest time that they were trying to catch that was kind of cool but it wasn't decision making or judging it seems like football has not worked no the the are so i think it's when you try to put objective processes to subjective things which are difficult where off sides like yes we still quibble about it but like it's very clear what the rule says um and you can judge it trying to think if there's anything else like i said the nfl has gone through all kinds of things if you remember the des bryant what is a catch first what isn't a catch um and then there was the ram saint super bowl where they that's where they initially introduced you could challenge pass interferences do you remember that where the rams went on to the super bowl because there's just an absolutely egregious pass interference call yeah yeah yeah so they came out the next year and said you could challenge pass interferences and they're like actually this is terrible like it because your point you could find it every every single time so i i can't think of something that's been quite as seamless as what baseball's done with the automatic balls and strikes this year yeah well if anyone is listening and knows of any uh give us a shout give us a shout out we'll uh we'll mention it next time on the next recording we've got but i think uh that seems to be as good as it gets it definitely has added a lot of value to a lot of sports but yeah like you put said that subjectivity i think one thing that was that was quite good i don't know about they did this with football but in rugby you got the full commentary conversation when there was the tmo the third uh third match official i think it stands for and that that was so good it really just gives you the context to remove some of that again that unknown as to how a decision was made or at least the thought process and gives you more comfort, even if it's subjective decision-making, more comfort that that has been assessed in the right vein.

6:39I think that's probably a good example, but I don't think the premier league or the most football leagues mic up all the rest of it. No, no, I agree with you. We'll come in at the other end. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. That is a great example, but we, we will shift things, Nick, and we're going to go through some new stories. I think one thing that maybe just to frame it, some of the interesting things about these stories, is we've also we've talked quite a lot about media rights and private equity investment where people are putting money it's been towards media rights which we've talked about and you've been banging the drum on like media rights might not be the best investment well this week we're going to cover some stories but it seems there's a little bit of a shift there's more of a towards you know not maybe a huge shift you know investing in technology is not a new thing but like the disown taking over view lift isn't necessarily just necessarily about um technology we're going to talk about brewing capital and um matchroom sort of slightly different you know um more about the the market space the the technology the infrastructure about and i think there'll be some other stuff that we'll talk about over some future episodes you know teasing some things in the future where kind of this idea of you know where the value is and just i think it's a bit interesting some of these stories they're not just straight up media right stories although we might talk about a few of those too yeah i mean a lot of these deals we're seeing in the market uh outside of the real traditional PE investment.

7:57We haven't seen a lot of PE investment into the term that's been making the airwaves now, the picks and shovels style businesses. Bruin Capital was one of the forefront of investing in decent size, mature, but with growth opportunities, picks and shovels businesses, basically businesses servicing the industry rather than what most of the headlines is, It's just about buying a team or maybe investing in a new league or like, and that's kind of been it. So that's kind of the next obvious iteration in a marketplace like this. There are moves from, which is what is a very limited marketplace in terms of like investing into teams and all leagues, particularly mature ones, to what companies are servicing this space and how do I get a part of it?

8:43So not too surprising. I think it feels like the next stage of investment is to look at that. And actually I think that's healthier for the industry and indeed healthier for investors to take that approach where I think, you know, venture capital style mindsets work more effectively for service led businesses than it does for, um, for teams and leagues. Exactly. So we'll, we'll go and switch that straight into the first story where we'll talk about brewing capital run by George Pine, someone I think we've talked about multiple different times. We've actually had him at our events. I think whether he's been a guest on stream time sports or whether we've redone one of his interviews, I'm trying to remember Nick, we've done so many of them now, Nick, I've done a couple with him.

9:20I've done a couple with him now i've done at least one on the sports pro channel on the how to win series i do with him i think i might have done one with him on stream time a few years back given um given some stuff they were across at the time but uh definitely on sports or on the how to win i think that's available on youtube if you want to check out george pines uh views on things yeah well he we've given him a lot of credit for the moves that he's made where when they make the moves when they exit out of things but their next move is into matchroom sports someone we've covered from the things they're doing from the boxing space some of their associations with the zone they've also i've mentioned many times um the world darts championship is probably my favorite thing which is also part of matchroom they also do things with uh pool snooker i believe is the term over here but brun have acquired a 15 stake in matchroom and they've valued it at a billion pounds, which is, you know, a good number to have that valuation on.

10:14The Hearns, you know, Eddie and Barry will still run things and have the majority control. There's over 600 event days per year. Obviously there's only 365 days a year, but they obviously have multiple different sports properties. You've matched those out. 2 ,400 hours of content annually in terms of what's being produced across all of those different events, you know, that they're covering. They are looking and expansion on U.S. sports. And so, Nick, I guess the question here is kind of talking about, I think, kind of a transition of investing in just media rights to potentially looking at someone who's the, I guess you say, the intellectual property aggregators, the promoters.

10:53You know, is this a shift in sort of that thought process about where there's value to be investing? I would say if it wasn't for the fact that it was brewing capital coming into this picture, I would call it maybe there's something in the air here. But in this instance, Bruin has been investing in these types of businesses for quite a while. They've been really the market leader in taking this sort of approach and what they spent with Two Circles. Previously, Delta Tray, before. There's something with a T that they've invested in. It's a three-letter initial company that is behind the scenes as well.

11:27I should know that. but anyway they've invested a lot of a numerous amount of companies that are in servicing empowering the industry and there's a couple benefits for that right obviously the growth opportunities that comes with those investments but also the cross pollination of opportunity between those different companies that they're able to to create and also George has got a really impressive black book and I'm sure I would bank on Matt trim announcing some pretty major deals or partnerships in the US off the back of this that they've been able to help bring to life. But yeah, Bruins in a really good place and have got a really good track record, some great investors behind them.

12:06This is all part of their latest fundraise, which I think was something like a billion dollars, I think was the number that they had raised in the latest funding cycle. So I'd expect to see a few more major investments in pretty interesting and relevant companies that people would really take note of. yeah now matchroom does have a good presence here in the uk like i said between what they're doing from the boxing space you know eddie represents you know anthony joshua and other famous boxers over here we mentioned how popular the darts is over here snooker is very popular over here in the uk what would success look like potentially growing in the u.s because i'm sure if brun's making this investment there's expectation of growth i think part of that's going to have to do in terms of you know internationalizing some of the the sports properties that they do have it's a really good question i'm not really sure what the actual play here there's a few scenarios that could could be a play one is to firstly diversify and expand the the event space of those sports they already have in their ecosystem and portfolio in the u.s itself you know greater marketing of of snooker of darts and so forth in the u.s which would be in a very exciting proposition if they could really grow those respective sports and sports properties in the most lucrative media market.

13:24That's one thing that I think is potentially a route of play. Matchroom's been trying to expand and diversify for a while now. They recently announced some basically athlete representation with rugby players. Is this just the beginning or is this just like a little bit of a, you know, an itch that's been scratched or are they really going all into this talent management thing? Because the point around even the boxers, for example, Joshua, they weren't actually representing them. They had deals with them for fights where they would promote and get them a deal for the fight and share in the winnings or the profits and proceeds off of that.

14:08The newer announcements is much more about more traditional athlete representation. So I'm intrigued to see if they really double down on that further. um or and whether they they're known basically as a boxing business first i would say is i feel like boxing's in a bit of a volatile state so i'm not sure whether they've have a bit of a path or a strategy to bring that to life again or um they are really going to focus on other areas well with darts and this probably won't surprise you at all barstool sports loves luke literally like but you could see where people like barstool sports pat mcafee would totally love the idea of like what darts represents so i think there's oh yeah that's where i see the amount of coverage you see from like the barstool guys being like luke littler 18 year old like you can you can sort of see where that type of like crossover between entertainment and sport particularly with some of like to be quite candid like barstool is although they're not a traditional sports media business they have an incredible impact and reach similar pat mcafee who's gone from just his youtube channel to now being represented on Disney and ESPN, you could see where that kind of stuff with the right type of audience, with the right commentators, that kind of thing blowing up potentially more so.

15:22I like that. I like that angle. I think there's something in play there. I mean, historically, Matchrooms, really, they put a lot into owning the IP and the growth of the assets they've been creating versus just acting like an events and promoter agency. And I think it's an important distinction because they've been building their own assets as a result of that now whether they'll change that model in the u.s because they want to sort of tap into maps there also like the challenger sports marketplace which is quite strong in the u.s maybe there's a way to partner up with some other sort of challenger sports and sprinkle some matchroom stardust on the promotion and marketing of those events i'm not i'm not too sure but a lot of opportunities i think a question have you seen the hearns documentary series on netflix i have not that's because i currently don't have i've basically been kicked off my family netflix account we can go into um subscriber issues and things like that but uh i have a list of things when i go home and to eat or i'm going back home in about a month's time to bring my son back home when i'm going to be up in the middle of the night because he's going to be so jet lagged and crazy like there are a list of things on netflix i need to go watch uh well it's a it is good series because also there'll be a lot of people that you will recognize the names of or the faces of in that.

16:37It always makes it a bit of a surreal experience when I've met some of these people that you see on the screen on Netflix. But one of the aspects of that is there's a real heavy connection to Saudi Arabia, right, because of PIF and because of the investments they've made and because of the events they've been bringing. And Matchroom were really very, and it's very visible in this documentary or how close they were working together. I wonder about the timing of this deal. Obviously, the recent announcements of PIF looking to wind back, live tour investment and more widely as well, whether this was not a reaction necessarily, but an alternative approach they were considering basically given that they were cozying up to PIF and the Saudi money quite a lot.

17:26And it's invisible in this documentary series. It's quite interesting really. yeah i'll check it out but uh moving on to our next story nick here in the uk sky sports has extended its formula one deal um across sky sports so it's extended until 2034 in uk and ireland in 2032 for sky italia it's a billion dollar deal it's a 55 increase on the previous deal one of the things that's interesting about this nick and kind of the reason we're talking is one of the things that's unique about the UK is the lack of the ability to have F1 TV Pro. And it's interesting because while it's probably good news for Sky to be able to continue to lock in a long-term partner that brings people in, and I'm sure Formula One enjoys having the increased revenue, it seems like there's some mixed reaction from the fans.

18:18And I think a large part of it is the exclusivity with which Sky holds. and I can understand from Sky's perspective why they want to be the exclusive home of it. But it also feels like in a world that is quickly moving more towards D2C relationships, that exclusivity may not give fans in the UK that full-on experience that they would like to be able to access with F1 TV Pro, which is accessible in other marketplaces globally. Yeah, I think I raised this actually when the deal was secured last time. I went on, I had a bit of the F1 bug. I think it was maybe a bit of the drive to survive the fact.

18:54It was some of the action on the track as well. And I went, all right, I'm going to look into actually subscribing to F1 as a standalone product. And it was quite expensive, but I was like, you know what, I'm probably going to do it. And then I tried to do it. And then, oh, no, you've got to be a Sky subscriber. And the problem is I wasn't a Sky subscriber. So now the question I've got to ask myself is do I want to lock myself in to a product which is more expensive and gets way more value than I need or want. But no, it's not easy to break those kind of sky relationships, those sky-corder contracts.

19:33And I really struggled to justify it to myself. So I ended up not going down, signing up for a subscription, and now I haven't watched much F1 at all. So there was a window there. I think this is indicative of a bit of audience behavior, right? It's like you have a window with someone who's consuming where you have a chance to really hook them. and if it's too free to the friction is too strong you might just lose them and they lot they lost me as a result then i haven't really paid much attention since and i had this psychological issue with like i'd rather just pay a lot more money for one product i'm 100 interested in then pay a little bit less money and get lots of stuff that i'm semi interested in and this is the psychologies of bundling and uh and pricing that makes it so challenging in this day and age but yeah the feedback i looked on like twitter and a few other channels was quite negative to the exclusivity that sky holds on it and because i think they just want they want that full bevy of f1 tv pro stuff and i think there's just a bit of it missing in the sky uh offering and it's worth noting that sky actually do a lot of the production the broadcast production for f1 that gets broadcast across the world they're not just hosting it on the platform so there's a real solid relationship with f1 with sky that's for sure yeah i think to my knowledge we try to compare it I believe you can get NFL Sunday ticket without being a subscriber to YouTube TV I think it comes at a slightly more premium price it would it is not more expensive than being a subscriber to YouTube TV and getting that but you could pay for it as a one-off package and you know you almost kind of wonder same with Game Pass as well and DiZona as well yeah yeah it's just sort of it's interesting that there there isn't some way you know added as a premium cost to have Scott without doing the the additional full subscription it's just that is one of the interesting things that come up with this where like i said we understand why it works for sky we understand probably why it works for formula one but there is just it just it feels like in a world where there's more direct consumer products being launched all the time within would you probably argue formula one's key market um i know they want to expand in the u.s but uk's got to be one of its top markets if not the top market i'm not giving them access to that premium product well yeah they're most of the teams are based in the UK, its roots are UK, it's so solid in the UK market.

21:47It's definitely, I don't know which market is stronger. I'm sure there are others that are pretty similar in terms of scale and interest, but it's a really solid market and the economics kind of prove that and Sky has built a really solid business off this, arguably, well, probably the number two after the Premier League in terms of the single sports relationship that has that drives the most value for them so it's definitely an important important one i just i think you would need sky would need to really think about can they rethink that deal at some stage and maybe they might in the future where f1 tv pro is available actually and it's all linked with their subscription a bit like a cable deal where basically i've heard a few of these examples where in the us espn with the ESPN is a flagship or whatever it's called, you cable subscribers are getting access to the ESPN flagship app for free as part of their cable subscriptions because they want to try and hold on to that cable money for as long as possible rather than try and push people out of the cable bundle and into ESPN because that's actually a very difficult journey to create.

22:55And I just wonder whether here, whereas if F1 and Sky partnered up and they said, look, what you'll get is you'll get free access to F1 TV Pro, on top of buying it through Sky. I think you would see a transformation in that relationship with fans, that's for sure. Yeah, it's an interesting one, Nick. And I guess the other question becomes, this deal they renewed three years prior to its expiration, so it was quite early. And the other thing that we know that is happening this year is Apple is now the new home of Formula One within the US. Now, one of the things we've spoken about with Apple and Netflix is a lot of their deals prior to this were global.

23:32Now, Netflix have obviously done some stuff with the World Baseball Classic, specifically to a single market. But Apple previously with the MLS deal was a global deal. Do you think there was any potential just concern with Apple being involved? Sky felt the need to renew early because they thought, you know, if this is successful for Apple, does this become a competitor for us that they might want to do a global deal? It's just, I'm not saying renewals don't happen early often, But like, sometimes you just got to question why. Well, particularly because this is what it's an eight year runway to the end of the deal in the UK and six years in Italy.

24:09Remember the days that in Europe was no deals over four years? Yeah. I think people are just ignoring that European Union issue anymore because it was precedence basically opening up the door to that. I think there must be a concern. It must have been a bit of a concern or a bit of a question mark as to will Apple start to double down. And after a year or two with F1, they'll have a pretty good indication as to how forthcoming the audience has been to access F1 through their own channels in the US and seeing if that transfers. Now, if I remember correctly, wasn't F1 TV Pro also available basically for free as part of the Apple subscription?

24:49That I don't know for certain. I'm not sure about that last point, but they basically made some of the premium content that you would normally think you'd pay extra for actually included in the Apple proposition. So it'd be a very different kind of business model and approach should Apple partner up with them. But now they have to, there's enough runway here that Scott doesn't have to worry about Apple knocking on the door anytime soon. So probably definitely protects their, one of the main assets. And they've been very good at that over the years. yeah and they'll have to be because all these streaming giants are coming into the space grabbing up things that traditional broadcasters had which segues us nicely into disney plus now entering the game when it comes to uefa i think nick we mentioned within the nordics that they acquired some access to some of the uefa competitions if i remember correctly europa league and europa league and conference league it was at the time in the nordics yeah correct but now Now they're looking at getting access into the Champions League within across 19 different markets.

25:46I believe Sweden is now one of them, Nick. So that's what I've seen in the story. So there you go. You've got access because I'm sure you have Disney Plus for the kids. But it also includes markets within Mexico and other parts of the Americas, you know, Latin and South America. So now they've got close to, I think, with all their new deals close. It's about 775 million euros across 19 markets would represent a 40 % increase in media rights values. But it's largely seeming to be split between Disney and Paramount for the most part outside of the UK. But I guess, Nick, one of the interesting things here is, again, we just talked about these global deals with people.

26:27You know, we've seen it with across the board. with uefa fragmenting their rights geographically is there a reason why i mean is it just simply getting as much money as possible is it you know benefits to being split across and having fragmentation it just you know there are 19 different markets i mean there's really two competitors but like could they've just gone for a global deal just an interesting process of how how pick and mix it is a little bit yeah it's definitely pick and mix and um yeah disney obviously wasn't you know the champions league generates a lot of revenue a lot of revenue for media rights and disney no doubt weren't ready to to go all in and create a global deal and quite frankly probably weren't able to do it because of the the different types of deals that exist and frankly the champions league going fully into disney and a lot of markets would have upset a lot of fans who may have been consuming it through some places free to wear or a very mature um streaming partner or just you know or a mature commercial uh or cable network that would be quite a bit of pill to swallow for some people that was to to play out given you know disney is a very prominent band um brand but i still i think it's in certain markets it would not be that strong really obviously there's a certain type of person that might be more prone to having disney disney has really diversified the uh the platform since but the interesting thing part of at least in the Sweden side of things is it is under the ESPN brand, which just gives you wondering, well, what's the plan here?

27:57Are they going to have another crack at launching ESPN in Europe now? And given the ease of which they can integrate a new brand and IP into the Disney Plus ecosystem, I think they might be really looking to do this. Now, if so, then, again, it's one of these things, but Disney all of a sudden have a dedicated sports brand in market. that means they could be seriously in for a lot more rights to come. Well, I did. That was one of the questions I asked Brian Marshall when we were in New York with the launch of the new ESPN D2C platform. What would that mean internationally? Because so far, a lot of that stuff has been focused in the US.

28:32And he said, hey, we're always thinking about things going internationally. And he doesn't necessarily work in the media rights team, but how those packages or how those products would all interact with each other, it does seem if you're going D2C that that would be a logical move to build that brand. Because as you say, I think even if ESPN isn't in your home market, this isn't me trying to sound like an American homer. I imagine most people probably still have at least heard of ESPN because it's just a pop culture reference at this point. Yeah, I think people identify the brand which helps, and that's probably why they're sticking with it and they're trying to give it a go.

29:05And I'm still a bit confused about Disney as a brand for an app, which I still think most people, at least around my age, or immediately think of Disney as nothing more than a kids and cartoon brand, basically. I mean, the best in the world, but still not what they are. Actually, we've got on the platform. They've got a whole incredible array of entertainment content on the platform. It is really good value just for the breadth and depth that they have on the platform, not just the kids stuff alone. So, I mean, they're setting themselves up nicely, basically, to make a bit of a play. but the the the use of espn as the brand has really i wouldn't say it's confused but it's left to people just yeah but wondering like are they really going to do this now are they really going to bring espn back into the fore and um but i think timing's much better than it was previously where there had to be such a big commitment previously to um they wanted to launch a sports dedicated product and disney seems to have better alignment now and how they want to build the disney plus streaming proposition with what they've done in the us with hulu fubo um and on espn now that yeah they've just got a nice much more complete proposition that i think is more looking more and more like netflix than anything else on a more macro level does this move in terms of disney paramount all get involved does that signal or validate that streamers need premium sports to drive subscription and keep retention or that this is a product that sports needs to facilitate competition to inflate its media value well probably a bit of both i think that's why it's a bit of a perfect storm from that from that perspective um i mean look the the growth of the investment with plus 40 percent uh is a big jump i mean two of these deals now we've talked about had massive media rights jumps you know i remember we've done a lot of presentations where we've talked about how flat meteorites are in the UK and Europe.

31:02Well, it seems like the market's picking up again. But obviously that is because there's some streamers willing to pay premiums to come into the market. Now, they weren't really ready to make that investment, but now they are. And now they're going after some pretty premium brands and IP to get a grasp of what is a fairly mature marketplace. So, yeah, I think they need each other. and that's kind of why it is, I guess, working and driving a bit more competition for rights again. Again, really at the top tier. Champions League rights are top tier in Europe and that's why they've been willing to spend.

31:40There's an interesting nuance for Champions League rights, like of who would want to watch what. So in Sweden, for example, I know a lot of countries, but the Premier League is so strong here. It's so strong in terms of the fandom. I see more kids with Premier League shirts than I do with Al-Svenskan shirts, the National League here or the local teams. So in things like the Champions League, then you're looking at this interesting mix. Well, there's actually not many Swedish teams playing in the Champions League. I don't think there's any this year at the moment, probably only in the Europa and Champions League, I'm guessing.

32:17But they do watch the Premier League. So again, I don't know how much interest will be watching a mid-tier Champions League match with no UK or Swedish clubs. But some of those, I don't quite know what they're buying, but they're going to get a very eclectic mix of content that's going to engage different audience sets, that's for sure. Yeah, fair. Well, I mean, we talked about some of the shirts. It's just having something for everybody because like the family is all going to be mix and match sort of thing. I mean, at least I talk about my onboarding sessions with new starters here. You know, sports will keep dad happy, but the kids entertainment will make sure mom will approve of the subscription.

32:49At least that's how it works in my house. My wife's the CFO. Well, yeah, look, I think the number looks really big, right? 775 million across 19 markets. But then you break it down per year and the amount of visibility they've got. It is a big investment. They've spent a lot. But for someone like Disney, this gives them a real chance of testing the market again for something like this. So I think, you know, and to build that sort of family full suite of sports and entertainment again to see if there's any interest in that. So, I mean, for us, it's really good when there's a lot of competition in market because there's a lot to talk about.

33:23So I'm all for it. Yeah, absolutely. Now, a story we alluded to earlier about this idea of acquiring businesses and media rights came out a little bit ago, but we're just now getting the time to come around to it. It was DAZN acquiring ViewLift. And I think on the surface, there's this idea ViewLift is basically a platform builder developer, helps people build their own DTC streaming platforms. And there might be the view that this is something about, you know, DAZN is looking at building out their tech stack, adding more capabilities, which I'm sure ViewLift is going to be able to play a part of that.

33:55But I guess the interesting part of this, Nick, is the fact of the relationships that ViewLift has in terms of, I think it works with, you know, 15 different teams. It works with five RSNs. We're not going to go deep into the RSN space here, regional sports networks in America, but they're obviously trying to figure things out themselves. and it's the existing relationships with it almost reminds me a little bit not exactly akin to the img arena deal where they were paying someone to take the rights off of them was that stats perform or sport radar who acquired them nick sport radar yeah and it wasn't the tech helps but it was about the access to the media rights so i guess nick what's interesting to me is there's what it appears on the surface as to who view lift is a company but actually sort of the strategic play potentially helping to zone get greater ownership of some u.s based media rights where they're looking to try to develop themselves so i guess um can't a zone win in the u.s by you know i guess the quite being the plumbing rather than the destination if that makes sense yeah i'm intrigued to see how they play this out so like bringing view lift into their business does give them when we talked about view lift across the industry typically we would put it in the same conversation as an Endeavor streaming or a Delta Trail, those types of OTT style providers.

35:16But in the US and in other markets, we've seen how the deals have had to take shape, different shape, where basically they are almost a media rights kind of deal. There's certainly like a minimum guarantee commitment from most partners. That means they have to understand the rights market and audience dynamics to make those sorts of commitments. So it's tricky for anyone in this market to do a deal for a platform. It's not just a service agreement between two parties. And in the competitive market like the US, that's especially prevalent. Now, ViewLift has done a really good job. Their roots are originally from Monumental Sports and Entertainment.

35:50So from what the Washington ownership group, Zach Leonsis, I think we've had on the pod previously. We have. So they've come from that. They've really shown that they can build destinations, you know, branded IP based destinations for either for teams or for the collection of teams. You've got like the New England Sports Network, a monumental, I mentioned Altitude as well, which I think is the collection of the Denver based investments from the ownership group there and build out an ecosystem. It's not just an OTT platform as a standalone. There might be the visibility on smart TVs as well, but it's very much creating a destination to point people to.

36:31So yeah, what this does give DAZN is DAZN changed its approach a few years ago and we've covered it basically where they took this, for example, the NFL game pass deals, the one I point to where they took the game pass, they shut down the legacy product and ingested it and integrated it all into their own ecosystem. From what I can tell, They had to build it from scratch almost, but plug it in and then migrate users across. This model, bringing ViewLift, gives them the capabilities of actually allowing that still to stand alone as it was and not have to migrate it in to maximize the value of that potential business opportunity.