Uber Founder Travis Kalanick is Back with a New AI Startup

23:30Travis Kalanick:Culturally, like that crew that you just described, most of them have been on the show. it feels very different aesthetically than what we're dealing with today yeah but I'm sure Chesky's pumping up Sam I love I love these guys that's so interesting look the the times when I get hit up yeah are usually when the shit is about to hit the fan or it's actually hitting the fan they're like dude, somebody needs to call Travis immediately. He'll know what to do. So I, so my phone's like, what are the crazy wild, wackiest things going down or like here? Because that's when I usually get the call and I'm so underground.

24:18Yeah. That's what happens. But like, I should, you know, I should give, you know, I know these guys, I should give them a call and be like, dude, we should. Let's cook. Let's let's cook. Yeah. I still think we probably did things better than anybody. That some of those things probably are still better than anybody even today. But obviously the check size much bigger. Is that approach like systematizing, fundraising, productizing it? Do you apply that across the entire, is that like everything that you do that is important? You're creating like a ground up kind of solution for it? Where else are you doing?

24:55Well, like for instance, I mean, this is just crazy, but like, how about when you do construction? You know how effed up construction is? I tell my guys that in the real estate department, I'm like, your entire department is the anti-fraud department. Oh, yeah. These guys just are incentivized to just run out of the bill. So how do you do epic, high-quality construction at an insanely efficient price? There's a way. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you. but there's a way.

25:28Travis Kalanick:Do you have any white pills or ideas that potentially AI speeds up the rate of building broadly, like solving the housing crisis through - Like permitting. Permanent, stuff like that. This is, so one of the things is that, and I think people are starting to come out of this now, this whole like, the jobs are gone. Like I know people still say that, but there is another side to this story. And like, I'll just make this, because I'm the Adams guy. I'm like, let's just talk about plumbers. Okay? Let's say the entire world, everything in our world was automated except for plumbers. Okay? You had machines making buildings.

26:08You would basically have like a thousand buildings a day. A thousand buildings being built at a single time in Los Angeles alone. Sure. Just machines doing. Yeah. Except plumbers. Okay. How valuable would those plumbers be? Extremely valuable. Okay, those guys, each and every plumber would be like LeBron.

26:26Travis Kalanick:Why? Because plumbing is the long pull in the tent to progress. Sure. That you can't get those thousand buildings unless you have a plumber. Sure. And by the way, you've got so much efficiency everywhere else that you need millions of plumbers. Yeah. And then the plumbing is like, what's up? And so once you realize that, then you're like, until we get super AGI, humans are valuable. And they are going to become more and more valuable because they will be the long pole in the tent to progress. And that progress is going to accelerate and get faster and more, you know, more robust, except if you're a plumber, you're crushing.

27:15And so until we get to humans are replaced, like fully, fully. And by the way, I have, I think we have solutions for that. I think Elon's got that at Neuralink. It's going to be all good. Okay. And then people are like, oh God. But until we get there, we're going to, I believe we're going to be super fine. That's my white pill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does. If you have plumbers that are getting paid like LeBron, it obviously increases the, you know, the prize pool of automating. But again, there's like these kind of windows. But there's going to be a bunch of things like plumbing and it's not just plumbing it's gonna be all over the place and even when it comes to software so like for instance look at like autonomous cars they like like waymo has people that oversee the rides yeah okay and it starts with like okay five five rides for every person then it goes to 20 then it goes to 100 but like if we get to this place where autonomous cars are everywhere okay and let's just say it's one in a thousand And like nobody owns cars.

28:17There's just ride sharing everywhere. I mean, some people own cars, but it'd be the top of the pyramid, let's say. Okay, so what do we replace? Billions of cars with ride sharing? If it was 1 ,000 to 1, you still probably have, I don't know, 20 million jobs, 50 million jobs. I'm just riffing on just the concept of this. You will see this everywhere, is that until humans are fully replaced, we become the long pull and the tent to progress. And that progress, by the way, is to serve us. Robots don't yet have bank accounts. So that plumber gets paid. Yeah, yeah. Anyways, you get the idea. You mentioned mining.

28:58Yeah.

28:59Travis Kalanick:Have you been to a mine recently? Have you visited a mine? What's going on in mining? I imagine that mines are fairly automated already. There's machinery. There's thousands of employees at a given mine. And that's work that humans... And there's so many resources. Children yearn for the mines of Minecraft. But it's not the best job. Well, maybe that's actually how it gets... Maybe that's where it goes. It's like an Ender's Game situation. Ender's Game situation.

29:31Look, it's interesting. You go, a lot of times they're like, oh, well, is labor really the issue in my, you know, is that really a thing? But what it really comes down to is productivity. Okay. Right. So if a mine is automated, then it can run all hours of the day and night.

29:50Travis Kalanick:It doesn't have off hours. The way machines queue up, doing that really efficiently, like computer science style, I call it digitizing the physical world. You can make that mind substantially more productive. What is the value of a more productive mind? And by the way, let's get to the real sort of the outcome here. Is does the world, as we enter this sort of new golden age that's about to come, do we need more minerals? Do we need more materials? Look around us, guys. Absolutely. It's like huge. Like look around us in this studio or walk outside. everything you see is grown or mined. Yep, yeah.

30:34Manufactured and moved. Yeah. So if you're not in the mining business, like you're, like let's just say the, like I shouldn't say that, but like it's a very critical part of the situation. I can't wait till we're putting some machines on SpaceX's rockets to go mine an asteroid or a planet or whatever. In the meantime, lots of mines on planet Earth.

31:00Travis Kalanick:So what level of abstraction do you want to operate at? Do you want to go and find land and mine it? Because that's sort of on the table. If I look at what you're doing in food, you own real estate. Or do you want to sell tools to mining companies that already have explored and they understand and they're running up and running? How do you think? I'm not buying land for mines anytime soon. That's just not anytime soon. In the next three months.

31:31120 days out. I just think it's super fascinating. Again, it's just like, I'm an atoms guy. I'm like all about digitization of the physical world. And I have this framework for it, which is like CPU manipulates bits, stores, stores bits, network moves bits from point A to point B. I was a computer engineer at UCLA. I didn't graduate, but I loved it. Those are the three core computing resources that you're told about on day one. But if you're treating atoms like bits, digitizing the physical world, CPU manipulates bits. What manipulates atoms? Manufacturing. Storage stores bits. What stores atoms?

32:14Real estate. Network moves bits from point A to point B. What moves atoms? Transport, logistics. I didn't know it then or I didn't think about it that way exactly. But at Uber, we were building network for the physical world, also known as digitized transportation. City storage systems then make sense. Storage for the physical world, that's real estate. We're building atoms-based computers with a real estate foundation. Storage, right? But now leveling up and saying, okay, we have a food computer. What about a mining computer? And what about a wheel-based platform to serve industry generally?

32:53Travis Kalanick:Yeah. If I look at the last two decades of your career, you're uniquely good at managing very geographically spread out workforces. What is the secret? I could never get behind the remote work thing. Everyone here works in one studio. But you've had to do it basically because you had to have a presence in New York. you had to have a presence in LA and you can't be in 10 places. It's all good. There's a difference. How do you do it? There's a difference between remote work where somebody works at home and they're like in boxers and then a suit. Okay. Versus we have an office in every major city in the world.

33:35And whatever city you're in, you're going to that office every day, five days a week. Yes.

33:39Travis Kalanick:And sometimes six or seven and that's it. But satellite offices still feel like a headache. How did you solve it? Because you can only be in one place. Yeah, I guess I just, I cracked the code so thoroughly in Uber times before, I think maybe even before anybody else. Yeah. It almost feels like normal. Yeah. But like I basically have figured out sort of the management and leadership structures where you, the real thing is about empowerment. Okay. is you must be able to empower teams. But I like to say the fewest number of rules while staying out of chaos. And once you have those systems in place, your imagination is only constrained by management capacity.

34:27So once you figure out the management piece, your imagination can go pretty damn far. And so it's just figuring out the management part of this is the thing.

34:37Travis Kalanick:Talk about empowering young people. We've had a ton of founders on the show who have the origin story of like, yeah, I was the GM of Miami or so. He sent me to Atlanta and I was me in a hotel room with a bunch of energy drinks. And we had to open up this market. So we had to do a stunt and hire some people. And it just felt like, you know, startup within a startup is a bad phrase that gets sort of misused. But why were you, you know, you weren't, this wasn't your first company with Uber. Why were you so heavy on leaning on young people, empowering them, pushing them? It wasn't on purpose. It was just the right answer.

35:16Okay. Why?

35:21Yeah, I mean, once you have a city team and you're like, okay, I need to find people that can run this, like old people aren't the answer. Like I need fresh. I didn't think of it as like, I got to get youthful people or not. Sure. I'm just like, I need good talent that can go do X and who has no judgment on what it is we got to get done. And it was just like water flows downhill. So what do you look at? It was like the first driver ops guy that we brought in in San Francisco in 2010. We basically took 200 cards and put names on them. And we said, alphabetize them. Click. and we just would measure how much time it took to alphabetize.

36:07We would give them like crazy analytics tests and then we're like, okay, this is our guy.

36:12Travis Kalanick:You know what I mean? Free AI. If you're on the marketing manager, if you're on the marketing manager, but even today you'd still want that guy. Yeah. Even today. So like you can't use AI, now alphabetize in the most efficient way. Now, if you know computer science, sorting is like a big fricking deal, sorting efficiently and being able to do that in your brain, not in software, is a thing. That's what ops people do. So I don't know. I don't know how to answer that question other than problem solving, whether you're young or old, executive or junior, who can solve problems is number one. When you interview, simulate what it's like working together so that day one is really like week two.

36:59And you're already pumped because you saw them in action. How are you with Adams? How are you thinking about recruiting and how are you going to change your approach to building the company? You've been kind of holed up in LA. This is your kind of hideout. Yeah, totally. But I imagine like, do you, do you push into back into SF, go back to being the king? Well here. So first, let's just be clear on December 18th, I moved to Texas. Sure. You know, I don't know what's so specific about December 18th, but Let's just say it's prior to January.

37:31Travis Kalanick:Yeah. So I'm a primary resident of Texas, but the action for a lot of this Adams-type technology I'm talking about, of course, like the Bay is a real thing. My head of the advanced technology group at Uber is running my robotics division at Adams. It's called Lab 37. That's Anthony? In Pittsburgh. No, no, that's Eric Meyhoffer. Okay, Eric Meyhoffer. So that's robotics on the food side. Yeah, Anthony Evendosky was running Pronto. I was the largest investor in Pronto, and then we just were basically right in the final, like we're checking off the list, maybe closing today or tomorrow on that deal.

38:13Amazing. Let's talk about that deal. Yeah. Give us kind of background on Pronto and then how it fits into the empire. Well, look, I sort of broke out how mining fits. Yeah. Right. So we got that. Look, I bet I'm the largest investor in Pronto. And it's super inspiring work like like go to a mine. Right. Check out how these things work and let your mind imagine what that might look like. When you bring automation to it and how much more productive it is and what that means for industry when all mines are producing more. where does that go? And in some ways you could say low-hanging fruit on the autonomy problem because yes, there are different problems off-road, but they're way more controlled than what's going on on-road.

39:10But then you get into the physical action, like cars on the road, the Waymo's on the road, they're moving, but they're not acting on atoms. So when you think about excavation and you think about crush like when you get the material and then you move it then you are basically crushing the material and then you process it you think about all of the automation through that stack it's fantastic and it's like it's hard right like I somebody asked me like we have a bunch of roboticists that make some of our food machines and somebody came like hey, is AI gonna help us design food machines? We're like, dude, let me show you.

39:55Like this thing has like an insane number of parts and let me show you just the design of a single part.

40:01Travis Kalanick:Yeah.

40:04Like that AI can't even do fricking math. You know what I mean? It's like, we're not there yet. Now, could it get there? Yeah, but then you're really in AGI. If you look at how much harder it is, the physical world, how much harder it is, AI in the physical world, versus in the digital world, and I'm not demeaning it in any way, I'm just saying it's like, maybe let's call it a different problem set. Yeah, we're just far away from one shotting. There's just way less training data. Yeah, it's like one shotting on software, do you have one shotting on designing a machine or a robot? Whew, we're just not there yet.

40:37Travis Kalanick:Yeah, not there yet. But that makes it more fun. That's the point, is like, do the hard things. If you are in the Atoms world, you have decided, I like hard things, I like pain more than anybody else. This is kind of what you got to be about. Chewing a glass. I love it. So I can see how AVs at Adams fit into mining. What other, and just heavy industry broadly, what other kind of categories of AVs are exciting? How do you see the space evolving? Yeah, look, anything, I mean, the mission is wheelbase for robots. Yeah. So then you're just like, okay, what moves? And you go, okay, you have to find the businesses that make sense, of course.

41:21So we're like, okay, mining is a no-brainer. And how do you think about sizing for a wheelbase for robots that can scale up and down? I tell my team, dude, there's a ton of silver metals here. And there's actually a few other gold metals just in the category. um so let's just go with delivery robots like food delivery which of course is near and dear to my heart um you make your 20 yeah your 30 your 15 bowl became 30 bucks yeah okay and this is this is like i would put it up there as like one of the number one annoyances of the average American, regardless of where they are in society. Food inflation?

42:08Food is just the cost of food delivery. Everybody wants food fast, cheap, hot, et cetera. Yeah. And there's all this data that just came out this week that just shows it doesn't matter even how much money you're making, you're spending a lot on this category. Isn't it interesting? Remember I talked about the plumbers? Yeah. But you could take whole categories, become the long pole in the tent. Food. Boring. To a lot of people, boring is that. For me, fucking interesting. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Look, I did taxis. I did taxis when they're like, people are looking at me funny.

42:48Travis Kalanick:It was a weird idea. Okay, they are looking at me super funny. So Jason Kalkanis, the most famous investor in Uber of all time. More famous than you and so on. Whenever I meet with him, I'm like, dude, I'm so honored to be meeting one of our early investors. But there was like an angel group that I pitched to. There were like 30, 40 people in the room. I think it was like three or four that invested. It's crazy. Okay. The 10 grand check became like 100 million bucks. It was crazy. Wow. But the boring places are the places. Yeah. You know? Less competitive. But also just weird and hard. Yeah. There's a reason why it's that way.

43:28The graveyard is stacked of tech guys that thought they could crack food, which is why, which is, again, like.

43:37Travis Kalanick:Yeah, go back to where they are. You can go compete in this category, but you have to actually be insane and you have to have. Yeah. And you have to attack at all these levels. So my head of the robotics division, we're like, yeah, let's do this. Get the band back together. Let's go. Right. this is Eric my offer yeah and and he's like okay we can make a food row that I'm like I got one there's one requirement though I got one what hanging chatter one string attached he's like what I'm like you're gonna have to build a restaurant that the robot serves so my roboticist team in Pittsburgh made a restaurant that is the restaurant that our first robot went into because we had to make sure that we understood how a restaurant worked.

44:29We had to make sure that this wasn't just a machine that made food, but a machine that makes food in the ecosystem of machines called a restaurant. And people don't understand, but a restaurant is a manufacturing facility. In fact, if you look at the labor statistics, et cetera, restaurants fits under manufacturing for obvious reasons. It just hasn't changed in 50 years. Anyways, back to... Sorry, I'm all over the place. No, I love it. I love it. Firing on all cylinders. But so again, do you want to move people with AVs? Do you care more about commercial? Look, the industrial thing is sort of like probably our main jam, But the bottom line is once you crack movement in the physical world, there's lots of people who want access to that.

45:22And in fact, you need partners because you're going to be putting billions of dollars to work to make it happen. So there's going to be lots of partners across different categories that are going to probably want some of that. And I have no issues with that. We're not like a, you know, this is ours and this thing. it's more like, hey, there may be ways to work with others. We're happy to do it. We've got to pick our spots, but you get the idea. What about manufacturing broadly? You're doing it in food. Are there other categories that are interesting? Are you happy to be kind of the transport rails?

45:57Look, I think once you are in physical AI, you should basically understand that manufacturing is part of your tech stack. It just is. And by the way, energy is part of your tech stack. Land development, real estate is part of your tech stack. That's just what it's going to be. People don't think about it like that, but it's true. Of course, Tesla just crushes. If you look at this list of things, you're just like, they got it all. So good. But there's just so much to do.

46:32Travis Kalanick:Yeah. You know what I mean? We can see all the things Tesla's doing. That's cool. I'm like, I can still help you mine. I can still get some food to some peeps. You know what I mean? So you get the idea. Is that really when you're pitching investors around Adams in this new vision, is it basically like there's a lot of jobs to do in the world? We're going to do it with physical AI, and you're basically betting on applying my general ethos to all these categories over time? No, you've got to be able to pick your spots. If you are too broad, people are like, dude, what's wrong with you? Now, you know, I think every entrepreneur always gets that.

47:16Like, you know, I joke around like in the 90s, like, dude, I'm an old guy. What are you going to do? In the 90s, it's like, dude, Microsoft's going to kill you. Like, why do you think? Then in the 2000s, it was like, why isn't Google going to do this? In the 2010s, it's like, dude, that looks like Uber's thing. and now it's like, if you're talking about physical AI, it's like, that's Tesla. They are the incumbent, they are, and not just the incumbent, they're also just doing great, awesome stuff. But find your spot. Know yourself, know what you're good at, be self-aware and find the thing that is your business soulmate, for sure.

47:52But also know that you're in an ecosystem and you need to find your spot.

47:59Travis Kalanick:What was your experience like in dot-com and the financial crisis broadly in 2008? Okay, so basically I sold my peer-to-peer CDN, Akamai Meets BitTorrent, in 2007 to Akamai. Okay. So I was earning out when that happened, and I just started, I think I didn't last very long in that earn out. Sure. So I was the CXO. I was like an advisor and a CXO. Okay. Little known fact, I was blogging. I was like a tech influencer blogger. There's a blog still out there called Swooshing. Crazy, amazing, ridiculous content. I was in the click economy, guys. I was in it. So I was an advisor in CXO for like five different companies at a time.

48:55And so I'd help them on their deals or I would be their CTO or I would, um, you know, help them sell or product or whatever, but I could always just put the phone down and forget.

49:07Travis Kalanick:So somewhat insulated from like the mortgage crash. Like, yeah, I mean, my thing was, I was trying to figure out, I was getting a bunch of my friends together and saying, okay, do you have a mortgage with bank of America? I do too. Let's pool our thing. I'm going to go to bank of America and say, I will buy these mortgages off for 40 cents on the dollar. Yeah. And because you're selling them on the market for 10 cents. Interesting. Could be fun. And then they're like. Get out of here. This is the crazy thing. You're not a hedge fund. That's wild. What about dot com? You're talking about the 90s?

49:41Travis Kalanick:Yeah, the 90s, like late 90s. Like, I mean, you're at that point, you're like sort of starting your career, right? Yeah. But it's an interesting place to start a career in tech. Like a lot of people watched that and said, that's insane. So look, we did peer-to-peer file sharing at a company called Scour. Yeah. Okay, so some people did Napster. Some went to, like, you know, all the ones that came after BitTorrent, all the way to, like, what was the one that Zenstrom did? Kazaa or some of these others, right? We were the OG file sharing. Yeah. Okay. Michael Ovitz was on the board. Ron Burkle was on the board.

50:19LA. Yeah. Okay, doing tech in LA. was like being a finance guy in Fresno. They're like, don't know what the hell is going on. They're like, who are you?

50:31And you're a little bit sheltered from it in LA. Every time you went to the Silicon Valley, it was like wild and crazy. And like every bar was like packed, like after hours, like happy hour thing, like things were bubbling. And the crazy part is not just what happened during the run-up, it was post. I was raising money on this peer-to-peer CDN that I didn't have, I didn't pay myself a salary for for four years. I was raising money in late 2001 for a networking software company. Are you freaking kidding me? And so I remember going to one of these, going to a bar to meet up with a VC. And this is like 2002.

51:14And it's empty. Like this thing that would be mega packed just two years earlier i mean we're talking dust bowl tumbleweeds empty and this vc i wish i remember who it was because it'd be amazing uh was like yeah travis dude i think i think it's all done it's over he told you it's over i'm like what do you mean he's like all the software that could be invented has been invented wow we're done and he meant it he's like it's been real dude let's have a whiskey Let's go. We're done. That's incredible. How have you processed the last two years when people are able to raise an amount of money that took you four different rooms in this entire process and they can just raise it literally without a deck often.

52:06They can just pull it together. It's all good. Like I don't, I just have, because, you know, when you build a company the way I built it, which is like my current one, where you're literally under the radar, it means that you are powered by, you have an internal fulfillment. You're not like caring what others think. You, you get internally fulfilled with building. And I don't look at somebody and go, oh dude, dude, I had it so much harder uphill both ways to school, whatever. I don't think like that. It's more about the excellence of the process. So I'm like, well, how do you raise money? And they're like, oh yeah, I just throw a deck to the guy.

52:49I'm like, okay, well, then that's not a thing. What is a thing is going all the way until it hurts. If you're doing something and it's easy, it's not valuable. And I'll explain like, let's just think of like a, like a marathoner, world-class marathoner on mile 21. Is that dude smiling? No, he's not smiling. By the way, if he is smiling, you know, what's about to happen. He's about to get his ass whooped.

53:18Travis Kalanick:Okay. Because why? Because somebody else who's down for the pain will go harder and further and pass him. And so if you're getting money easy, I'm like, why didn't you go harder? You could have done it better and more. Now you don't do things hard just cause maybe he's like, it just doesn't matter too. Like I gotta go do something else that's hard. But the key is like, if money matters, which I think we would say it does, especially in certain categories, you need to be the best in the world at it. And it's not enough to say it was easy. If anybody comes to me and says a strategic thing was easy, I'm like, you messed up.

53:55You could have been way better and gone way further. More competitive advantage, more differentiation. Get it together. Give me the update. I feel like Tony Robbins right now. I love it. I love it. No, I think people need to hear this. They do.

54:09Travis Kalanick:They do. And yeah, the challenge is like when if raising money is super easy and then you actually start building and you're like, whoa, actually money makes this possible, but it doesn't make the work easy. Yeah. And it is funny that some of the greatest fundraisers, the critique is always like, oh, well, they are raising too much money. You look at Elon, Sam, all these crazy deals, and people are like, well, like, okay, it's nice that you're good, but like, are you too good? And it's like, here's the thing. You know, back in the day, 2010s reference, like, there was a problem with getting masa money.

54:43Yeah, there was a problem with that. Yeah, because it was easy money.

54:48Travis Kalanick:Sure. And And it was too loose. And so people would get loose with the culture of the investor that they were getting the money from. And so you had to be careful. So if somebody got Masa money, I'd be like, dude, you got to grind. It was maybe a little too easy. And still to this day. So there's nothing wrong with money as a sort of a competitive advantage or a strategic weapon. It's okay. Like, that's part of business. It's necessary. But treat it with respect. Last question about Texas. For the Californians that are thinking about making a trip out there, Austin, Dallas, Houston, what do you recommend?

55:35Travis Kalanick:Well, look, I'm Austin. Now, I own a place in Austin. I've owned it for five years. I'm an avid, I would say almost professional water skier. Nice. Slalom skiing. No way. I'll send a video. Send a video. That's amazing. It's sick. Don't even get me started. So I've owned a place there for five years right on the lake, Lake Austin, 20 minutes from the city. There you go. Lake life. Hell yeah. Go for it. Okay. I get a little bit FOMO on like these people going to Florida. I'm like, dude, why so much Florida action? Like, come on, homies. I know. It's been a bloodbath for every single guy's going to Florida.

56:20But, like, yeah, like every weekend this year I've had this year is in Texas. Yep. You ever take calls while you're water skiing, like AirPods? Dude, I should. It'd be good. I love it. Don't get me excited. Well, I went to Saronic, which does the boats, the autonomous boats. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like. Build me a water skiing.

56:38Travis Kalanick:water skiing boat. Ooh, okay. I just want a water ski. That's great. And like, I just want a water skiing behind a Sironic boat is so funny. I'm like, dude, autonomous water skiing. Yeah, dude, I love it. Pretty viral. Uh, who should, who should come? You're, you're poking your head up. Who should come work for you? Yeah. 60 seconds. Who do you want? Not, not any individual, like one individual person, but like that. I have a message for this one guy who didn't take my offer. Um, look, I think the thing is is like we're just getting the best this is so cliche and like whatever banal but um look we are in the physical ai space so you it's a mix of uh sort of let's call it sensors compute the software that sits on top of those things um uh i mean it's just it's just gonna be great engineers and then you go through what i would call the physical ai stack and you would you know but um it's a long project it's someone for who wants a career it's like infrastructure software guys because you've got to have epic ai on the back end and the way to use that it sort of has to be epic you have to have physical ai model people who are sort of translating foundational models into the physical world and and and there's some core research and some just like i know all all the white papers and we're just gonna, we're building and going end to end or some hybrid version of that.

58:11You have just normal software cuz you've got applications that sit on top that then, of course, customers see in some fashion or another. Actuation and manipulation on the mechanical and sort of robotic side of things. And mechanical engineers that build machines. Wow. And then of course, remember, I've got construction, real estate, like I could go on.

58:34Travis Kalanick:It's lots of cool stuff. Go to the website. There's lots of stuff. Go to the website, folks. Go to the website. Adams.co. Adams.co. And by the way, Adams.co slash vision, I just threw down. Okay. I know. Read it. That's amazing. Check it out. It's amazing. You're taking the time to come out with us. Yeah, yeah. This was awesome.