What we learned about Chiefs offense, Dolphins impress in loss & Jessie Bates heads to Jaguars

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2:05Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show, brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. The Week 9 Hangover, hitting three games with Derek, who's here. Really enjoying our in-studio version of this show. We have Chiefs Jets hitting Lions, Dolphins, and also little Raiders Niners. At the top of the show, broke down the Jesse Bates trade, which is fun as hell and i am very glad that it happened and i hope we have five more of them over the next 24 hours but let's get to the week nine hangover with me and derek right now

2:44Robert Mays: it's the week nine hangover three games we're going to hit today chiefs jets raiders niners and lions dolphins i'm really excited to dig into all of these there's a lot of stuff to talk about from all three of these games. But so we get the trade deadline, let's start with the news of the day. The big one overnight, the Jacksonville Jaguars trading a 2027 second and a 2028 fifth to the Atlanta Falcons for Jesse Bates. This is an aggressive trade for a 30-year-old safety who is about to hit free agency. That being said, I love it. Like, I absolutely love it for the Jags simply because of where they are and the fit player wise for what the Jaguars do on defense, all the funky stuff they do on the back end, you get one of like the smartest, best playmaking safeties, not only in the league, but of his generation, of the last like decade, dropped into that defensive identity for Jacksonville to pair with Antonio Johnson.

3:45Robert Mays: They lose Eric Murray. I love this. Like it's aggressive, but it is a team that I think is justified in being aggressive in this moment. And again, you mentioned he's one of the best players of this generation for his position. He's already been the linchpin of like multiple defenses that have played above their means. Like those Bengals teams were not that great. But the reason they were as good as they were is in part because of some of the stuff they can do. Same thing, I think, in Atlanta. He's a playoff player. Yes, he's a playoff football player. And that is why I like this. And they know that that's what they are now.

4:13Robert Mays: He is a playoff player. I think the only thing that's surprising here is like for so much of the run up to this, it was like all the D tackles that they were linked to. And they trade for Devon Godchard. That's like a much smaller move. right yes it's like they needed a run stuffer that could just eat some snaps after losing Devon Hamilton and so to get gotcha for essentially nothing who else was that going to be like there wasn't a big name run stuffer out there other than like Grover Stewart they're not going to trade him within the division and so that was the positional guy on the market that probably would have made the most sense if you just look at need and availability but they obviously have a barrier to get a guy like Grover Stewart and so doing it this way I kind of love it I think it makes perfect sense for where they are i agree because like the more people were linking them to moro ajemo a little bit and he's a good player like probably equally as good at baits at this stage in his career but he doesn't solve the same like he doesn't really solve an issue he's a disruptor which is fine that's helpful but that's what they wanted to be but that's not what they've been and so it didn't really make as much sense whereas you pair baits next to antonio antonio johnson who i think both of them are like guys who can play in the box a little bit you can put them a little bit spin them deep like i just think that this is now a really smart pairing and like i just love how many very sharp veteran players they have back here now like jordan louis being what he is like antonio johnson it's i think year four for him um monteric brown is like year four or five in the league now jesse bates is 30 years old he's again been a leader leader type guy for a lot of secondaries you have all these guys around i don't know the second third most talented corner in the league and a guy like travis hunter like this secondary is all of a sudden like really really cool the thing that it reminds me of is just what the packers feel like right now And obviously just think of the shared schematic DNA between those two teams.

5:50Robert Mays: Campanile comes from Green Bay. It's some of those ideas. And when you can have two veteran safeties, two veteran playmaking safeties in that defense, and Johnson has really come along. He's a nice piece. And so it really ties the room together as an entire secondary, very similar to, I think, what you're looking at with McKinney and Evan Williams and Green Bay. And so I love it. If I were a Jax fan, I'd be pumped about this. Again, it's aggressive. It's a lot to give up for a 30-year-old player who is going to be hitting free agency. I mean, when we look at compensation in these moves at the deadline, when players go for less than you would typically think, it's often, well, there's no contract, right?

6:28Robert Mays: Like Quentin Nelson goes for a three and a five because he's about to hit free agency. Jesse Bates went for more than Quentin Nelson went for. That is a high level of urgency and aggressiveness from James Gladstone, but he hasn't been shy before. And I think this is a really good team. So I'm into it. They haven't been shy. It's already a really good team. And like, there is no superpower in the league right now. And if you really feel like one little move is going to, this is what's going to help us beat the Bengals, or this is what's going to help us beat the Bills in January. Like, I don't care if it's a little bit aggressive.

7:00Like, as a neutral observer, like, I think that that's incredible. Hell yeah, man. Go for it.

7:04Robert Mays: It's great. And man, can you imagine if Jesse Bates gets like a big time interception against the Bengals in the AFC championship game? There's a stake to the heart of Bengals fans everywhere. All right, we'll have plenty more of this tomorrow. If you guys have not seen us announce it anywhere, we are doing a live stream tomorrow afternoon to celebrate the trade deadline. I hope some shit happens, Beller. I hope we're not just sitting here spending an hour talking about the Andre Cisco trade. Jonathan Taylor. It seems like it's not going to happen. That's the one I realize. I was really looking forward to some fireworks.

7:35Robert Mays: And I mean, we got some really good ones. We just got some really good ones early. And so it's possible that we get crickets on the day of, but I'm hoping there's one or two still out there. One of those backs is going to go. Maybe the Bills and or Vikings get a little more aggressive after what happens tonight, depending on how that goes tonight. So should we be rooting for the Vikings because of that? Or should we be rooting for the Bills because the Bills are actually a team that should do something? The Bills are actually a team that should trade for Buda Baker. Yes, well, here's the thing.

8:00Immediately after the Jesse Bates trade comes out, it comes out of being like, oh, yeah, Brandon Bean was poking around. I'm tired of poking around. Fix the f***ing room.

8:10Robert Mays: Bills fans are going to lose their minds if there's like one or two big more one or two big trades at the deadline and the Bills still do nothing. Yeah, they are going to lose their minds, which again, these things have such a mixed hit rate and they often are more exciting than they are impactful. And some of the trades you don't make are some of the best moves you can make at this time of the year. But no one wants to hear that shit. No, no, no one wants to hear that right now in a league that still feels pretty wide open. All right. Let's get to our first game here. Chiefs and Jets. your biggest takeaway from going back and watching Chiefs Jets yesterday was what?

8:43I mean, they score 30 some odd points in this game. I came away really frustrated with the Chiefs offense again, just in some of the moments of like, just this is not a good Jets defense. And I think they here's the frustration. I think they are scheming it up really well right now. And I think the quarterback is seeing it pretty well right now. There are just so many situations where I'm like, they're not going to be talented enough when they need it. and it's frustrating.

9:08Robert Mays: Yeah, I didn't feel that level of frustration during this game, but I think this is a perfect example. Because it doesn't hurt them in this game, right? Not that much. This is a perfect representation to me of when they are playing against a below-average defense, they can just do this. Yes. They can just do this. Every time they got man coverage in this game, it's 20 yards. Because, yes, because Kelsey's going to be able to break a guy off, or, like, the only thing that some of these wide receivers can do is they're going to run a little 10-yard crosser, and it's going to be open. The first touchdown drive to me is like a perfect representation of what the Kansas City Chiefs offense is in its current iteration against a below average defense.

9:44Robert Mays: Third and 10. We're getting Kelsey at number three. He's one on one with Jamie and Sherwood. We get him on. Create a matchup. We get him the ball. He goes for a chunk first down. Next play, flat to worthy. You can run a slant against the Jets corners. That's a chunk. Next play, rice on a screen. that rice screen on that first drive by the way first 20 yard reception by a chiefs wide receiver in the last three games that's the see this is this is what i mean third and one rpo little flip the jalen royals and then walker on mesh traffic for the touchdown that is an entire drive of chiefs bullshit yep and against a team like this it's not bullshit it's gonna work it's gonna work it's gonna be smooth it's gonna look great they're gonna look like they're just rolling i understand what you're saying but in this game it's hard to fault them for approaching it and doing it and rolling the way that again i think they're coaching it up really really well like given the pieces that they have it is really impressive there are just a number of moments where like skipping all the way to the end but like the game was pretty much already in hand at this point but there's like eight minutes left and they throw a third and three crosser to jake brinning school which the fact that we're having to do that is already frustrating mahomes puts it right on him and he just can't catch it and like the game would have ended there obviously they'd run away with the game at the end anyway but it was kind of just stuff like that i will say them getting rice back is massive because you can do the screen stuff you can do the screen stuff at least you can now manufacture things yes you wouldn't have been able to manufacture before and i actually do think worthy was better in this game and was doing more than he typically does so i think his route running and hands are a little bit better than they've been in previous seasons look at how much it pains him.

11:20It's excruciating to do this. I still think he is borderline worthless with the ball in his hands. Here's, I looked this up.

11:27Robert Mays: But that's what Worthy is for. That's what Rice is for. Yes, and so the fact that they have that now is, I think my growing frustration is none of them can do anything beyond 10 yards, which like we can get to in a little bit. That is so true. But Worthy this year, according to Sports Info Solutions, has an ADOT of 8.0, which is pretty low, and a missed tackle rate of 6.1%, which the other guys in that range for both numbers are like. That feels high. Show me. It's like Wanda Robinson and F'd and Chisholm. It's not. Almost every other player with that low of a missed tackle rate is like Mike Evans, who they're throwing the ball 20 yards down the field.

12:01Robert Mays: And he's like 30 some odd years old. All right. So let's just play this out. Let's say they trade a fourth round pick or a third round pick for Josh Downs. Yes. How do you feel about the group with that construction? I think because they are scheming it up pretty well right now, I really do still believe in the run game and they had their moments in this game. Especially some of the goal line stuff I thought was pretty good. Obviously, the Raiders on defense, that's a whole separate question we can talk about. I think Josh Downs just maybe gets them over the threshold that they need for Mahomes magic, Spagnolo magic at the end.

12:37Like, can Walker bullshit be enough? Because Josh Downs, even if he's... To use him vertically, you do have to do a lot more stuff from the slot and kind of scheme it open a little bit. he's at least useful down there and he can make a couple of contested catches and he can make people work for it worthy's not doing that rice is not doing that all the other guys are rookies like cyrus allen andrew armstrong all those guys like i don't know if you can really count on them

12:59Robert Mays: to do that my take is josh downs is what cyrus allen was made out to be in the preseason yes like that is what they want him to be so like at this point if it were any other team it would be like well why would you trade for a josh downs if cyrus allen can be this next year but you're the Chiefs you need it this year all the time yeah and so and I think like where that comes back to me too like the Chiefs had a third I think this is where my growing frustration with the whole thing came even though again this was a good game and they're scheming it up well Chiefs had a third and 12 in this game where the three wide receivers on the field were Xavier Worthy Jalen Royals and Andrew Armstrong there's only so much you can scheme up to make that work and again against the jets and probably all but like seven defenses in the nfl that will be fine but chances are you'll play some other better teams in the afc granted there are not too many strong defenses in the afc so maybe it's not going to matter but like this was a game where i was i think the talent is actually more frustrating to me because the scheme looks as good as it does because i'll admit i came into the year being like i think reed is still fine at this i don't know if he's like a still one of the needle moving coaches and i think the way that they're scheming up right now is phenomenal there's moments where i'm like i it could be better if there was like one more real deal pass catcher here i don't disagree with that and i i think i'm with you in that we've seen enough from what they're getting from the running game what the running game has provided them and just what walker is as a playmaker my favorite play of the entire game from them is the screen touchdown to him like when you watch that play on full the gas he he has that gear and then i watching creed on those screens is incredible because what he's able to do if you've got if you guys can go watch the video of this play it's unbelievable what he's able to do he'll get out in space and he'll move laterally with those second or third level defensive players and then mirror them in space in order to like break down and get hands on them and it's just so incredible watching him do it like he is a mover at that size that is just very rare at center and he was also awesome in the run game in this game he is a hell of a player he can't snap the football but he is a hell of a player right the one the the screen that he like snaps at my home's feet every game there's like one or two it's incredible we're still doing this it is kind of funny maybe he's snapping with the left with the wrong hand you ever thought about that maybe maybe he should just try to do it with the right hand i do love when like elite players just have like one weird thing that they just can't do it like julio jones couldn't score touchdowns because he's just like not very good in the red zone it's a little bit of that um i for me like maybe my favorite creed plays there was 13 minutes left in the third quarter and they run like a little mid zone to the left and creed trey smith and jalen moore just like move everybody down the line of scrimmage and walker cuts it back for like a 12 yard gain and it's like that's what was missing last year and obviously the blocking was still decent last year they just didn't have like last year that run might not go for 12 because those guys just don't have the gas to do that and so the fact that like they have what they have now is like fun to watch i and i really do believe this i think that committing to the run game with more volume leads to its quality totally like it's just a mentality thing for offensive linemen like i've really enjoyed talking to coaches about this in the past where they're, I remember like talking to McVay about this when they were that into the 22 season when they just couldn't run the ball.

16:27Robert Mays: They couldn't run the ball in the Super Bowl year. They couldn't run the ball in 22. And there are times where coaches just get so infatuated with the passing game that the run game atrophies a little bit and it's hard to tap into it. The bills were like this for a long time. Yeah. The early bills under Dable were like this, where if you only, if you're going to run the ball 32 % of the time, it's not as simple as saying, well, now we're going to run it yeah now now it's like third and now it's third and two we're going to run it and get two yards like tapping into that mindset and just flipping that switch is really hard it has to be like a core part of your identity if you're going to do it well and it is a core part of this team's identity this year they get juice from i think the approach they get juice from the back and i think that you feel that across the entire offense and because it's i think in previous years when they've been like a really high success like success rate offense which for the most part they have been yeah absolutely one game yeah it's been 4.2 yards a carry because it was so much rpo like they're just tagging bubble screens onto everything little slants like alert smokes like whatever it's going to be and it's like sure you can chug along that way but to get the explosives you need to get like under center we need seven and eight guys going out and making blocks and like really digging safeties out and linebackers and moving people and they've really committed to wanting to be that and obviously walker has been really good at that i will say benson up and down in terms of the pass pro stuff some of what he can do in the run game like they had a a goal line run where he just like completely nukes uh jack heflin on the goal line who you know backup detackler whatever but he like makes him look like he did not belong on the field and i was like okay the fact that you're left tackle it's an undrafted rookie free agent imperfect in the passing game but if we can run the ball well enough to just not be in that many scenarios where he's pinched anyway again i think that's another credit to their approach like the fact that andy reed was like this is what we have to be as an offense to work and they've been so successful at it is really impressive to me they just needed to be more explosive and have the run game be more central to their identity we talked about that the entire offseason but it still leaves a hole and pure drop back situations when you're playing against better defenses again they're one of those teams where the vacillation is going to happen based on the quality of opponent when they play against the seahawks you're going to see the limitations when they play against the jets you're going to look at and be like well what do you mean yeah well what could they possibly need Did you see them play today?

18:42Robert Mays: Mahomes in this game, two of three on passes of 10 plus air yards. Two of three on passes under 10 air yards. 21 of 26 for 187. And one of those was Creed Humphrey snapping the ball at his feet and he threw the screen in the ground. If you, again, if you're playing the Jets, you're able to do this. If you're playing against the Seahawks, if you're playing against the Broncos, if you're playing against the teams you're going to need to beat when we get into the playoffs, it's going to feel a little bit different. And so I do think we're in a situation of, do you think we need one more? We need one more with the Chiefs offense.

19:15Robert Mays: But yesterday it looked just fine. And I do want to be clear. This is like sliding scale. This is still a very good offense. But we are talking about the Chiefs who like in theory can go win the Super Bowl. You're trying to win Super Bowls. You're trying to win Super Bowls against really good teams. We do this, I mean. Where we talk about it like they're bad, but it's all relative. It's not even just about that. It's like you, we talk about this a lot. We mentioned this a lot, and it's still worth bringing up. The thing that just happened is not the only thing that has happened. They played the Seahawks two weeks ago.

19:47Robert Mays: Yes. It was two weeks ago. It was two weeks ago. Like, it's just, our memories are so short with this stuff, and I'm guilty of it too, but I think it's just, it's important to anchor yourself against things that happened in the recent past. Week one, whatever, it was two weeks ago. So let's not forget what that felt like. on the other side of the ball if i were a jets fan i would be just being yanked in two different directions right now just yanked in two different directions there is a lot of good stuff about this team like a lot of good stuff i look at the players that they have on offense the offensive line left to right like titman has a rough moment against chris jones in a big spot in this game But for the most part, that offensive line, even the way Dylan Parham has played for them this year, he's been really nice for them.

20:37Robert Mays: And so you've got this offensive line that's full of really nice players. Even the tight ends, like they all do a little bit of something. Rucker had some moments as a blocker in this game. You go three deep there. The backs are really good. The backs are really good. And so you have such good pieces offensively. and then you come into this game and you shoot yourself in the foot like four different times and the game changes on the braille and allen fumble and at that moment the game completely changes when that play happens in the second quarter the jets are up nine seven okay the chiefs have just punted the ball back to them with 6 30 left in the second quarter and they give them the ball right back and the chiefs score a touchdown and suddenly 14 9 and like the game swings.

21:25Robert Mays: And so that play, I mean, changes so much about the complexion of the game. And I think in part because the run game was really working for the Jets. Like there are a lot of things in terms of the personnel and the pieces on this team that I think are worth getting excited about. And coming into the year, that was my what is success for the Jets? Like, can we leave this year where all of the young draft picks that you've made over the last couple of years, the tackles, the pass catchers, the tight end, And David Bailey had really nice moments in this game. He had some really good plays. And so that is great.

21:58Robert Mays: At the same time, it doesn't make the process of watching this team consistently hammer itself in multiple weeks over and over again any easier if you root for them. They had like the Braylon Allen fumble is one. The Chris Jones sack where he beats Tippman takes them from having the ball in the 26-yard line to the 35-yard line, which leads them to missing a field goal. So you have that, you know, shooting themselves in the foot. The other one. The flea flicker. Yeah. They burn a flea flicker on first and 10. Went late in the second quarter. There's a false start right after that. That gets him to second and 15.

22:36Robert Mays: When the final minute of the first half, they got a first down and Sadiq got a personal foul face mask penalty. Would have been first and 10 at the 18 with 50 seconds left. And that's when the Jones sack happens. in the third quarter they have a big third down completion it's wiped off by an illegal shift then later in that quarter mitchell drops a bomb dude that's what i was gonna get to is like and then gelati has a sack right after that the the obviously the braylon braylon allen fumble is the first one where it's like man they could have taken control of this game the miss to mitchell or it's really more of a drop like that gino puts that on him it's an insane throw against cover to to just rip it right down between the safeties.

23:18And it's a great throw. He kind of puts it on him. And that felt like the last moment of like, they could have got back in the game. And once that happens, the game kind of just, the Chiefs make a couple of drives at the end and it falls away from them. But it really is just like, they are closer to being a kind of good team than it feels like their record is because of some of these moments. But like, when I watch them down to down and I try to reframe that this is supposed to be like a, you're just looking forward to the future year. I'm like, it looks pretty good for the most part.

23:46Robert Mays: I agree. Yeah, I agree. I'm still in a spot where I think it's going to be hard for Aaron Glenn to survive this. I agree. I just, the defense doesn't look very good. And some of the situational decision making and just the game management choices are consistently poor. I mean, like the thought processes in terms of when they're going for it, why they're going for it with the type of team they have. I just don't I think it's hard it'd be hard to justify running this back when you are very likely going to be in position to draft a quarterback with all of those picks that you have that aren't even yours and I think dropping a first round top 10 quarterback into this situation with these weapons with this offensive line and with my assumption would be an offensive minded head coach just for sake of that guy's development.

24:33Robert Mays: it's easy to get excited about that like I would actually be pretty pumped about that if I were a Jets fan and I was getting over the malaise of watching this team every single Sunday and when it comes to the results Beller and I were actually talking about this earlier in the studio I think when everyone hears Aaron Glenn like sitting there and defending like we don't want to trade Will McDonald Brees Hall like all these really good players it's easy to be like well you guys have two wins like what what is the point of that like let's look forward to the future it's like well one you already have the capital for the future because you have all the fun part of it I also think you can you can sell me that this team is closer to being good already like why would you give up the good players yes you're building something and i don't even beyond even retaining the talent for the future which i do think is worth doing right because in the priest hall case it's like well you have like if you wanted to do it you could but i honestly think if you're moogie right and you're trying to balance we were talking about this with the charges yesterday the chargers are just completely deluding themselves about like what they're building right like the these are not are they are you stacking up positive or negative experiences if you're the jets right now even if this is frustrating and you're getting in your own way a little bit you're in your own way too often i still think that what you're doing is ultimately you're banking really good experience and development for a lot of these young players because you're seeing success offensively.

25:56Robert Mays: You're feeling it. The way the run game was working for a good chunk of this game, like you're getting 7, 8, 9, 11. It's good. Like that's stuff I would want to keep banking. And I think having Brees Hall instead of like a fourth round pick, that calculus is probably worth it to me, even if it seems silly for a team that has two wins. This is not the conversation we're having about the Chargers yesterday. And so if you're a Moogie, I understand it. Like this is all about the multi-year big picture. And I legitimately think that side of it, that is a little bit more intangible, services that like multi-year big picture in kind of a weird way.

26:30Yes. You can sell me that like, again, like the them getting to this escalation where they become like a pretty good team is like maybe closer than it feels when you look at the win column. I do before we move on, two players on the Chiefs side that I want to shout out. George Karloff did. I knew this was coming.

26:46Robert Mays: It was literally the last thing I was going to say before we moved on. He's having a fantastic season. Like he he's just what he does in the run game for them. Like there was a play where Olu Fashanu is trying. They're running a little bit to the left and he just like sets the edge so hard on Fashanu gets into the backfield. He had there was a play where he's against Membu one on one as a on a pass rush rep and just like beats him inside. Like that was really impressive. He also has he's done this a lot over his career, even though it didn't really show up last year. He has six batted passes this season, which is tied for the most in the NFL with Cam Hayward and Jeff Simmons.

27:18At his best, he is a nuisance. He's just an annoying football player to deal with. And I really do think that he's having his best season. And then the other one, I think Ashton Jaladi is like a really nice player for them. They've got a rotation of defensive linemen now.

27:29Robert Mays: Tonga is doing exactly what you want Tonga to do. Like they have so many more impactful pieces. It's not, they're not a pass rush team, right? Like it's, it's the way that they kind of play. It's the defensive, it's the style of the defensive line. It's a little bit more four down, read and react. Like that's what they are up front. And so I don't think the pass rush numbers will ever really jump out at you. They're never going to be a four down. We get after people team, but they are a tough defensive line to play against because now instead of having one and a half guys to in Carl Otis's better years, you have four to five of them now that are impacting the game consistently.

28:08Robert Mays: Yeah. And you combine that with a secondary that has a lot of nice pieces. And in this game, when they just decided that they were going to blitz and play man, the Jets had no answer. Yep. That was it. And I think that is the best path forward for this team. It's like you don't have the four down gas with the pass rush. But if you're going to bring heat, you have enough impactful role players and enough talent in the secondary where that is the right formula for you on that side of the ball. Yeah. And that was the last thing I'll say. That was even without Peter Woods in this game. And he hasn't been like fantastic this year.

28:37But like the fact that even their depth was chipped away at in this game and they still had like they had like I'm impressed with the defenses.

28:43Robert Mays: All right. Let's take our first quick break and then come back and chat a little Lions and Dolphins. We're halfway through the NFL season, and the NBA season is also in full swing. Our friends at The Athletic Live are coming to you five days a week with watch parties, special guests, and more. Whether it's the NFL or NBA, you can become part of the show in the interactive chat. The Athletic Live is presented by Google Gemini. Check it out now and subscribe on YouTube. Football season has arrived, and with the U.S. Bank's Smartly Visa signature card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home, watching on a brand new TV.

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33:01Robert Mays: your lasting takeaway from the lions win over the dolphins in week nine will be what i think we can talk about some of the ways that the lions found a way to win this game in the end i was pretty impressed by the way that the dolphins defense played i think especially up front they really took it to a lions offensive line that has been really good for most of this year and i know christian mahogany didn't christian mahogany did not play in this game seemed like a team decision they put in miles frazier we can talk about that the other guys were losing too like this was not just the you know backup left guard getting beat it was a lot of guys across the line really everyone i think other than sewell kind of had a rough day i was so impressed by i mean the guys that it was sealer and chop were the one i mean they were the dudes and uche made he had a couple of nice yeah uche had some cleanup plays but sealer and chop robinson just consistently throughout this game were really giving the Lions offensive line a hell of a time.

33:58Robert Mays: I mean, the first on the first opening drive, Chop walks Blake Miller back into Jared Goff on third and three. Same drive. Sealer beats Frazier for the sack to force the field goal. Later in the game, he's the one. Sealer beats Ratledge to force Goff to step up on the play where Uche tips the ball and they get the interception. Sealer gets a TFL by backdooring Frazier in the middle of the second quarter another play later in the game it was a third and seven they were on a stunt on the right side where it's Seeler and Chop Robinson on that side they force golf to move just a little bit on that big in breaker to JMO that he leaves just a little bit high like those two guys and then Chop was the one that had the initial pressure on like it was like 12 and a half minutes left in the second quarter he gets the pressure that leads to a sack and then on the third and one in completion right before the fourth and one late in the third quarter he He gets another pressure to force an incompletion.

34:50Robert Mays: And so those two guys, you just felt them throughout this entire game. And Seeler's always been super underrated. Like just a such a good player, such a good player. And he has been he's been that for so long and continues to be that. Chop Robinson, I thought was awesome as a rookie. A little bit of a quieter season last year. And so to see him playing the way that he's playing right now is just so comforting to me. Because I loved watching him as a rookie. And so to see this version of him and see him play the way he did yesterday, that makes me happy because I want that guy to be a good player because I think he's really got something to him.

35:25He's been really good again this season. Like he's just, again, he's a little bit on the smaller side, not the strongest guy, but like his juice is crazy. I think he's powerful for a smaller guy. For his size, he's very strong. But I'm saying he's not like Draymond Jones.

35:37Robert Mays: No, no, no, that's not. But there were plays where he got into Blake Miller. And like, I would say, I know Blake Miller's been a little bit up and down as a rookie, but like one of the things that I was impressed by with Miller coming out was his ability to constantly like reset his anchor chop just moved through him like three or four times in this game in a way that I thought was was really really impressive I I'm honestly I will say on Jared Goff's part I'm impressed that he was not sacked more times like I think his pocket movement this year has been phenomenal really good and so there are times where Dolphins guy still found a way to make a plays but I think that there are previous versions of Jared Goff that gets sacked like seven times in this game and takes like two strip sacks and i i do think that that is part of the reason they were able to survive this game the way that they did i mean when you're trying to figure out okay how did a dolphins team that has is one of the least talented teams in the league i don't think it's controversial to say that how do they stay in this game really throughout the entire thing i mean we were it takes a late third quarter like pitched run to get them over the line It was 9-6 with four minutes left in the third quarter.

36:38Robert Mays: And they need to go for it on fourth down in order to get. They had a huge chunk to Jamison Williams and then a 17-yard chunk to Amon Ross St. Brown after the drive where the Lions kick a field goal to make it 9-6. They score a touchdown there and then they're kind of off to the races. But until then, it was really close. And the simple answer of how was it close is that Zach Seeler and Chop Robinson were ruining the Lions offense for a chunk of this game. They, I mean, so Jameer Gibbs overall in this game had 20 carries for 74 yards. Two of their only really good runs were, one, in the first quarter, they had like one of those weird guns offset, like sidecar things, and they pitched it to him out on the boundary for like nine yards.

37:17And then obviously at the end of the third quarter, the fourth and one where they do the fake zone left, toss it back to Gibbs on the right.

37:22Robert Mays: Well, they did the same thing. They did the fake throwback that the Bears did against the Seahawks. Oh, that. Yes, he kept it. Yeah. And so that's the thing that like half of their production basically was like three plays that hit the perimeter. Anything between the tackles like inside the numbers was kind of a no go because I do think the D line was playing well. I thought the backers played really well in this game. Like Jordan Brooks had there was a zone run to the left in the middle of the second quarter. He explodes to tight end and just gets in the backfield. And I'm like and obviously, you know, Brooks is the one that gets outran on the fourth and one.

37:53Robert Mays: But like, it's a tough play. He's trying to make a play on fourth and one. It's a tough ask. And also, like, long speed is not what makes Brooks a special player. It's that between the numbers, he's going to blow somebody up and see it really well. And that's what you get on, like I said, the mid-zone run earlier in the second quarter. He's trying to make a play on fourth and one. He's trying to make a play in the backfield, and he gets caught in no man's land. And he barely gets beat. It's not like it's like, yeah. That's one of those plays where, like, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.

38:19Robert Mays: It's fourth and one. It's a really, really difficult situation. The Lions in this game multiple times went for it on fourth down and needed to. They're the fake punt. their willingness to go for it on four down it's in a game like this where you know in theory you shouldn't have to but they're his willingness to have his foot on the gas and just be like we're gonna push it all the time yeah dan campbell is so good at this like i we just don't talk about it enough yeah we don't talk about it enough and i i i'm guilty of this too like i've always been like team offensive defensive architect like that's the bet that i would make i think the Fewer things have to go right.

38:56Robert Mays: If I'm, these are bets, right? You're putting your chips down in various places. And like, that's what you're doing. I want to make a bet here that this is going to work. And I think to me, the best bets that you can make on head coaches are still those guys that give you a schematic advantage on one side of the ball definitively. I'm still going to believe that. But that doesn't mean there aren't great archetypal head coaches that are some of the elite, elite coaches in the league year in and year out because of what they can do in a more traditional sense and he is the best example of this like he is a hyper elite head coach that is doing all the right things all the time culturally game management everything even just talking to people in that building about what it's like to work there and what it's like to work under him and how he is so good at keeping guys on edge all the time where it's just the messaging, it's the standard, even like sitting mahogany in this game.

39:54Robert Mays: Like he's just not going to put up bullshit. Like it's just not going to happen. And so too often I think that we breeze past him because it's not new anymore. Yeah. He's just we've done this since 2021 and they've been really good for long enough, but they're so consistently good and he's so consistently bringing what he's bringing to the job that every once in a while, I think it's good to just press pause, step back, and remind ourselves of how good Dan Campbell is at this. And, like, no coach is going to be perfect. Everyone's going to have missteps. I think, obviously, last year, them hiring the offensive coordinator that they did was a misstep.

40:28It's just a natural part of the process. It's a natural part of the process. Like, even, you know, even the guys who are great offensive play calling head coaches, like, hire the wrong D coordinator sometimes. Like, that happens all the time. And, like, with Dan Campbell, the fact that last year, I know the offense wasn't perfect down the stretch either, but he comes in to replace that offensive coordinator and call the plays and they look better. And then this year, I think he gets the higher right. And like, they've been really, really good. They fixed the offensive line. Like, I think his ability to right the ship when they stumble a little bit has been consistently really, really impressive to me.

40:58Robert Mays: I totally agree. And so again, their willingness to go for it on fork down as often as they did. Before we get into some of the other specifics in this game, I actually think the Dan Campbell part of this and the Lions arc part of this is worth bringing up. Because when we were talking about, again, what is success for the 2026 Dolphins the team that we consistently brought up is can they feel like the 2021 lines where they can win three games but every week you're like man they play hard they're doing some good stuff the young pieces that they got in the draft are guys that you think are going to be building blocks for this team and when I watch the way that the Dolphins play some of the things they're doing schematically some of the flashes from young players and the guy that to me it's rooted in this game specifically i love caleb douglas ball player i ball player caleb douglas yeah he does so many little things well yes like that the outbreaker he catches in traffic him going up and getting that ball is the most spectacular play he makes that's a pick if he doesn't attack that the right way and he that is the word he attacks the football yes on whether it's a deep comeback anytime it's a somewhat contested play he is friendly to the quarterback He's making the quarterback's job easier.

42:10Robert Mays: Like that is a winning player. And that's what this draft needed to be. It needed to be. All right. We're getting Chris Johnson and Jacob Rodriguez and Caden Proctor. Let's like, we're going to take in multiple dice rolls on day two at receiver. Maybe one of those guys hits. And I think that a lot of those pillars of what would make this a good season for the Miami dolphins there. We're seeing those. We're seeing those like buttress, what this team feels like right now. And it's, it's exciting. Like this is a ethical tank job that is putting this team in a very good long term situation. Yes. Like, again, like what is the actual quality of this team?

42:44It doesn't really matter when I watch them. This is the difference to me between. I think you can still make the argument. The Dolphins and the Chargers are the two worst teams in the NFL. When I watch the Chargers, I'm like, these are 11 players who are not playing up to whatever their quality is. They are coaching us. That's what goes. Exactly. When I watch the Dolphins, there's a lot of players here who are young. they are probably going to be backup players you have like an imperfect quarterback but i watch all of them and i'm like they are playing to the best of what their level is right now and like douglas is a good example of that i think what you're getting from most of the offensive line at certain stages even if it's still up and down i think malik willis is playing pretty well like in this game i think he was clearly hobbled by the end yeah he was hurt and you could see that making good decisions and like putting the ball in some decent places like i just think i am overall impressed with the coaching job on this team on both sides of the ball you know we talked about the defense obviously a little bit but the offense and then you mentioned it man caleb douglas he's just a professional football player yes he's just and honestly if we want to make another lions corollary amanrast brown coming on for the line that was exactly the fourth round pick

43:52Robert Mays: exactly the comparison is like can you find one of those guys who knows if he'll reach the same ceiling but when amanra came on it was like oh that's just a professional like he just he comes back to the ball right uh i mean it's obviously the big corner he catches is crazy but in the middle of the third quarter with 7 13 to go he runs like a stop route on the left hand side he's like four yards short of the sticks he comes back to it attacks it make sure he has room to spin and make a play bursts up the sideline and makes it and just barely gets the conversion i'm like that that's what like five-year pro bowlers do and you know he just it was third and 11 it was third and 11 it was third and 11 and he's just in a one-on-one situation where it's just like go do it dude and earlier on that drive he wins right off the line of scrimmage on a slant for a positive play same drive and so i i really like him i i just think he's a really good player the fact that he's that and like chris bell has done some stuff for them this year i think we all know that like next year is the year for chris bell yeah we don't have an off season as a rookie it's really difficult but the fact that he's even like and i know it's not a perfect room the fact that like Bell is getting a decent amount of snaps for them and like he is doing some stuff and they clearly like him as a yak guy like I think that to me is promising like there's just I really do enjoy watching this team and that was really the goal is like do you look like you are a team that is doing the best with what you have every week and I really do feel that way with this team all that being said still a frustrating day if you are like the Miami Dolphins coaches because they were in this game yeah and there are multiple plays that just get wiped off I think they how many holding penalties they finished the game with I think it was at least four maybe five oh they had a handful I will say I credited the offensive line a little bit earlier this was not their best day like Patrick Paul I think got moved around more in this game than he usually does Proctor was obviously his first game back from the concussion so I think he was not perfect like it was not their best day overall yeah and they had I think they had like five different holding penalties I think Aaron Brewer had two of them in this game which you don't normally see and then And obviously, they're two big ones.

45:51Robert Mays: Will's had a 51-yard completion to Coleman that's wiped off on a Kassmeric hold. That's one where it's a play action, and he's blocking down on Hutchinson, and all he has to do is wash him down. All he has to do is wash him down. But you panic. You're playing against— You're like, Aiden Hutchinson is getting by me. You are playing against an extremely explosive player, and you panic in that moment. And that's also part of why I think you could look at this game and all the penalties that they had. and you can be like oh man like that's not a buttoned up team all these penalties hurting them well holding penalties like that's not a discipline issue that's like you're just not good enough in a lot of these and the brewer ones like he is good enough obviously but like Kazmarek getting that hold on Aiden Hutchinson it's like it's a rookie third round pick who's trying to block one of the most explosive pass rushers in the league whereas with the chargers it's false starts and illegal shifts all of the time yes that's the issue that's the difference to me yeah holding penalties are just like he's not good enough or he hasn't seen enough snaps that's really more of what it is most of the time and then they had another scramble first down in the third quarter where brewer got one and so i think i think they had five total and that was that's a frustrating day when you're in a game against a really good team like the like the lions are yeah i will say i do think malik obviously malik willis i don't think healthy in this game obviously and i think that that limits him a little bit for the most part i thought made some pretty decent decisions the interception he throws to chuck clark is just like it's indefensible never open yeah because If Chuck Clark comes from the center field to come and pick that off, I think Khalil Dorsey might have also picked that off if the safety doesn't even exist.

47:22Robert Mays: Well, he's staring at it the whole time. Which I get it. It's his best receiver. He's like, Caleb Douglas has made me right all day. I'm just going to chuck it. There are worse ways to approach that play. Chuck Clark started on the opposite hash. He comes all the way across because he's just staring at it the whole time. And again, I don't fault him for making that choice in that moment because throwing an iffy ball to Caleb Douglas was their best passing play of the game before that. yeah and so i get it but that's one where yeah he's probably pushing the envelope a little bit too much yeah i uh you know weird day it's not a great miami offense a couple of defensive shout outs for the lions i thought malcolm rodriguez played a hell of a game i think their whole front was really good their whole front seven i mean like i think that the i thought the linebackers played well i think that tyleek williams and elie mcneil continue to play just like really good football and you know who I really like and I just think that he is like the epitome of a role player but I just think every time I watch the Lions front seven he's always doing positive things as a useful player is Nowoski yeah like Nowoski is just like and like Tyler Lacey even like I just think that their front is has a lot of it has depth it has guys that are chipping in like I actually do think that group is really well constructed and it you look at it i was this is hilarious because i was like really does seem like teams just don't really run the ball that much against the lions teams are throwing the ball 68 of the time against the lions this year which is the highest rate in the nfl 68 of the time because they've got a front seven and they commit a lot of resources to it that's just hard to move around like those guys are a pain in the ass and i think the more the lions get dbs back and get a little bit healthier you're like, I don't know if you can really live that way against him.

49:06And it's still an imperfect secondary. But I think if you're going to try to pass 70 % of the time against that secondary that's getting guys back, that's probably going to be an issue. And I also think, like, I think the pass rush is getting better. Like, McNeil's playing really great this year. Obviously, Hutchinson is Hutchinson. Derek Moore, I think, is kind of coming along for them. Like, he had a play in this game early on in the fourth quarter. It's a third and 12 in the red zone. And they put him in, like, a wide nine on the right side against Austin Jackson. Just screams out of his stance and blows up Austin Jackson.

49:33And I'm like, but if you can do that two times a game and you have some of the other stars that are in this front, it's like, that's kind of what we said about the Lions coming into the season. It's like, you know what Hutchinson and a healthy McNeil can give you. Can the other guys just like give you a little bit of something? And I think it's almost like what we said about the Chiefs with like, you know, Chris Jones and Karloftis. And I think in both cases, you've kind of got what you want out of a lot of the other pieces that we've gotten from those guys.

49:57Robert Mays: What are the Lions defensive line coaches? I actually don't know the answer to that. But it really does seem like anybody who comes into that building, even if they don't turn into superstars, you're getting like workable play out of so many of those guys. I mean, what did we say about Al-Kadeem Muhammad when he was there? Like he just had like a crazy season for them. It's Casey Rogers is their defensive line coach who's been in the, I mean, he's been coaching in the league forever. Before he was in Detroit, he was at the Bucs for six seasons. And you think about all the defensive linemen. They've had some good guys over the years.

50:25Robert Mays: The Bucs have turned out. Yeah, so he was in Tampa from 2019 through 2024. Casey Rogers has been in the league for a really really long time but I just so many guys in the defense that defensive front for Detroit where it's like I don't know that guy just does does good shit he's just like he's just a useful like productive player as part of like a rotation they've got a lot of those pieces all right we're gonna take one more quick break and then come back and chat a little Raiders Niners I live in a northern suburb of Chicago and one thing I love about the area is that in this cluster of suburbs while there's a lot of similarities to them, each one in its downtown has something that makes it unique.

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54:37Robert Mays: your lasting takeaway from the Niners win over the Raiders in week nine is what I think I have two one of them we'll get to this when we get there Brock Bowers is just the coolest ball player and he is just every catch that he made in this game was like out of his frame at his fingertips at his ankles still finds a way to make it look he makes it look so easy that you think everyone else who can't do it like that is an idiot like it just seems like it should be so like he just makes it seem like it's so simple and it's really not he's an unbelievable player can i express my frustration and this is like the most champagne problems thing ever having brock bowers and puka nakua and your fantasy team is a terrifying experience because they're going to catch like 15 passes a game and every single time they catch one they're going to like peel themselves off the ground and limp back to the huddle.

55:32Robert Mays: And I'm just like, you poor broken boys, especially Puka this year. I feel like it's like, even Bowers in this game limping back to the huddle. I'm just like, all I want you to be is like 98 % healthy. And I want to see that. It just seems like we're never going to get there. They're always going to be like 82 % of themselves just because they're crash test dummies, which, you know, that's more than we got from Bowers last year. Last year he was like half of himself and still pretty good. He is an unbelievable player. I mean, the touchdown, we'll get into that. The touchdown, I actually do think, is if we're trying to pick apart some weaknesses of the Niners, the fact that the Bowers touchdown and the Mayer would be touchdown before the stout fumble, the stout punch-out happens, they're the same play.

56:14Robert Mays: If you can get behind the linebackers, the safeties, and that group in general, having to play in space and not be guys that are clamping downhill on stuff, I do think that right now with the remade front and you felt the front in this game Osa made multiple plays at Buckner's back Bosa's there I that group I think is well suited like the front seven period for this team to win a Super Bowl the safety group right now in coverage and in space is probably like the one lingering doubt I have other than receiver health about what the Niners are yeah because I mean you have the Bowers touchdown where they're running like you know scissors concept number two is running the high corner Bowers just runs that little short post under it he's wide open the other one that i think kind of stood out to me in that realm was early on in the third quarter they run that like boot concept to the left where they have the high corner on the left side and they run trey tucker running an over out that's yep mustafa's got to nail down on that and he just doesn't and it's just they're hammerheads and i like them but it's like they're very good at specific things yes absolutely but that that's the one area where again if in the intermediate like five to twelve yard area 54 is going to erase everything you want to do there but if you can pin him down with something underneath that he has to account for that area right behind the second and third level that is something i would try to consistently be picking away at yeah and the raiders are the raiders are such a weird team like their passing game with bowers mayor and tucker and 47 year old kirk cousins is really good yes dude it's it's really good i keep when i've said that like when kirk is not getting hit he is a top 10 quarterback right now I'm like so serious he is playing at a really really high level and there are limitations when he gets crowded in the pocket and stuff like that but the way that it's constructed the way that he's seeing it the way that Bowers is playing like an all-pro it's a really good passing offense like a and then I've said this before they will test your rules like what Kubiak Kubiak is really good yes for a long time it was always like Shanahan's just gonna make all your rules wrong and obviously he still is the best at that every time I watch the Raiders I'm like they're just getting guys in positions they do not want them to be in and it's really impressive and then they had 15 carries for 24 yards when they try to run the football it is apocalyptic like i it is a waste of a play and it's not even just there are teams where you're running the ball purely out of obligation it's going to be a two-yard gain you get up on second and eight you live to play another play you're putting your offense in a bad position but you can get over it this team we're beyond that now the amount of like catastrophic negative plays that the run game is taking it's nuking drives like it's destroying the team they were in this game to a degree like way more than they should have been for Phil's quarterback sneak like pick the trade and Stooks pick is an awesome play by trade and stuff by the way yes awesome play by trade and Stooks that's a situation where Purdy's not supposed to be accounting for him because he should be the flat defender and he sinks underneath it because Purdy's eyes take him there and so you make enough plays as a defense a bad defense to at least give yourself like an icicles chance in hell against the best team in the NFL and then you have like three or four game killing run plays that oh so Diggy Zua just blows up because you cannot run the football yeah it's extremely painful and this is one of those things that like football sometimes is so simple they can't run the ball at all and at this stage they can't defend the run really at all oh man it's bad there are multiple times in this game we're like you know who i i actually will this is not a player we usually credit on the 49ers team i thought jake brandell played like a really good game as a rumble i totally agree awesome the interior man yeah that is they play really well if we're trying to like figure out because and we'll get to the niners in a second there's i want to say plenty of glowing things about the the Niners.

1:00:06Robert Mays: When you're thinking about, all right, this version of the Niners offense compared to last year's version of the Niners offense, the Niners last year were a dead on middle of the road run game. Right now, they are the most efficient run game in the NFL. And that changes everything, right? It goes, you go from being a incredibly well-designed passing game that can pick on most teams in the league to an animal like just truly like a beast that is so hard to defend because you can hurt teams in every single way and i really do think that the interior trio playing the way that it has in the run game specifically is driving a big part of that some of its design they're doing some funky stuff they've really i think they really got into the lab this off season but that interior trio to me is playing the best i've ever seen that group play Like, Pune obviously had some flashes early in his career.

1:01:01Robert Mays: Yeah. But I, Colby, Brendel, like, that is, that has lifted them to a different sort of place as an offense, I think, because of the way that that group has been able to play, like, just collectively. A hundred percent. Like, and I think CMC looks like he has more juice this year. The fact that Kalen Black, that's the other thing. The fact that they have another back they trust to just not run CMC into the ground. Yeah. Kyle Shanahan finally liking another running back who is not CMC. They finally spent a fourth round pick on a guy who actually can do something when they give him the ball. Has some like serious juice.

1:01:34He was the 90th pick in the draft. Like I think that he was really good. And also just like this has always been true of the Niners. But all the auxiliary blockers are just like the first play of the game. They run behind Kittle and he moves Max Crosby and they hit a five yard.

1:01:48Robert Mays: What a stupid player George Kittle is. He's incredible. And so they do that. The first goal line, at least I think it was the first touchdown run. the first goal line touchdown they had with nine and a half minutes in the first quarter Trent Williams puts Fatoukasi like on the other side of the field and Luke Farrell just washes down Quay Walker and the fact that your tight end too is doing that and like Trent Williams has always been a really good player but he's the fact that he continues to do this at his age is kind of unbelievable that their offense right now is just you just said Kirk Cousins was 47 years old so you started today trent is like 11 months younger than me so okay that one's a little too yeah actually kirk kirk's gotta be around the same day they're almost the exact same age actually both what 38 so kirk is 38 kirk was born kirk is like a year younger than me it's actually very funny kirk was born a year earlier than me his birthday is a week for mine and we were born in the same place wow kirk was born in barrington illinois where i'm from that's actually kind of crazy he moved in middle school to michigan okay i grew up with him and his brother they were like kirk kyle was a year older than me and then you knew them or like around them kyle kirk was kirk was a year younger than me and so kirk played with a lot of the guys that were juniors when i was a senior right and then kyle his brother was a year older than me that's when we were playing like park district basketball and stuff like i the cousins brothers were like just in my town okay before they moved to michigan but then trump was a month younger than right than kirk okay A month older than Kirk.

1:03:17Robert Mays: A month older. Okay. So they might as well be 50, but they are my age. Both guys still playing incredibly well at their age. So the last thing I want to say about the Niners, and it's actually the big point I want to make about the Niners coming out of this game, just all caveats about the Raiders' defense, let's just get them out of the way. The Raiders are one of the worst defenses in the league. This is along with the run game. The Raiders, as we move into next offseason, very similar in a lot of ways to me about the conversation we're having about the Jets, where if I were a Raiders fan, you got the coach right.

1:03:49Robert Mays: In terms of like what the offense is, what you're getting out of the offense. That bet has hit. The passing game, you are going to put Fernando Mendoza into a very good situation next year when it comes to a coach that is able to put him in the right circumstances consistently. You need a real deal receiver and you need to be able to find a way to run the ball. That can be investments along the interior of the offensive line. Like you still like, Trey Zune's a third round rookie. Spencer Burford is a guy who was in and out of the lineup consistently for the Niners like that is a group where you can really put the hammer down talent wise if you want to if you want to draft a guard in the second round next year and be like we're getting we're cutting this off at the pass yeah that's part of it and also like there's a chance they just need some run game design tweaks like Rick Denison is their offensive line coach like it's possible that they just need to kind of go back to the drawing board with some of that stuff and step outside of like the pure Kubiak world and I mean that like not just Clint that they live in like it might be time to reevaluate some of that stuff but those are offseason conversations and the defense needs total revamp like it the talent is not where it needs to be like that group is very far away even with those caveats about the Raiders being true the Niners right now are bending football to their will in a way that is staggering.

1:05:10Robert Mays: So the run game stuff that I was saying earlier leads into this. They have the most efficient run game in the league again. Brock Purdy, this season, according to NextGenStats, is seeing the highest percentage of his dropbacks against base defense in the league, 33.5 % of plays. it was 24.6 last year so it's a nine percentage point increase the league average is 19.8 they're at 33 and a half okay he is throwing into a light box on only 56.5 of his plays which is the lowest rate in the league so you have the best drop back passing game designer in the world with a five-out offense driven by the best pass-catching back in the world with the best pure-progression quarterback in the world into circumstances that you have been able to shape to your will because of what your run game is, that's what this is.

1:06:10Robert Mays: It's insane. It's crazy. Every time I watch them, I'm just like, I kind of get it because I've seen Kyle Shanahan do this long enough, but I still find myself like once a quarter being like, how is there that much space? I just, the way that he gets five out, because they do so well of, they play from a lot of like condensed two by two type stuff. And just the way that they will like undress the entire coverage and everybody's open from sideline to sideline. It's just remarkable to me. And like, I said this on the Sunday show when we were talking about Joe Burrow, but since 2000, the quarterbacks with a 55 % success rate over the course of a season are 2007 Tom Brady, 2011 Breeze, 2020 Josh Allen, 04 Peyton, 2011 Tom Brady, 18 and 19 Breeze, and 2006 Peyton Manning, and then Burrow and Purdy this year.

1:07:01The way that they are operating in the passing game, and this, by the way, I know that, like, I think some of their depth players are playing better than, like, a normal wide receiver six would. Like, Watkins is a good player, relatively. He does some decent stuff.

1:07:14Robert Mays: I don't disagree with that, but, like— It is still a wide receiver six. at a certain point it's like come on that's what i'm saying they are getting cooks is out there that's what i'm saying they are getting away with this with brandon cooks watkins who is a rookie and like they don't have the rookie that they want into john stripling they've not had christian kirk really mike evans is not in this game like they don't have it's crazy like devo samuel's not been playing like they don't have and it doesn't matter it literally doesn't matter because of the way that it's designed and the way that the quarterback is playing right now It doesn't matter.

1:07:47Robert Mays: And to me, the purest expression of how, again, they've just shaped this thing to their will is what they look like on straight under center dropbacks. They are doing it in a way. They're playing a different sport when it comes to those plays than any other team in the league. So they've run 35 of those dropbacks. On those 35 dropbacks of straight under center with no play action, Brock Purdy is 27 of 32. for 296 yards and five touchdowns, he has a 68.6 % success rate on those plays. That's as automatic as you can get in the NFL. And it makes perfect sense. It is the perfect expression of what they are as an offense because what you're doing on those plays is that you are getting the best of every single world that you're trying to live in simultaneously.

1:08:41Robert Mays: simultaneously when you are a truly dominant dangerous run game teams have to account for you when you're under center because of your ability to run the ball out of those looks and the niners there are teams consistently that have dot checks either with certain uh personnel they're using like the way they're going to line up they're going to put a certain amount of guys in the box if you're under center they're going to run certain coverages when you're under center and so the niners know that and that's why they're willing to do this but compared to under center play action where you are limiting what the quarterback can see with under center play action.

1:09:15Robert Mays: You're either cutting off half the field or he's having to turn his back and he's taking his eyes off the defense. By using straight under center drop back, you are forcing the defense to account for the run game structurally, but you are able to see the entire field at all times. And so you can still go one, two, three, four, five pure progression while the defense is still having to account for the run game the way that you can't under center play action. And he is the best quarterback at specifically this, the first play of the game. Straight under center drop back. You see him take a five-step drop and you see him go one, two, three, just in perfect timing, rip the ball to, I think, DeMarcus Robinson for an 11-yard gain.

1:09:55Robert Mays: It's like, that's what it is. That's the offense. And it looks beautiful. It is a word I don't think is overstating it. It is balletic watching the timing and the rhythm and the execution and the spacing and how it all unfolds. Like it's like choreography. And he is, the quarterback is a maestro of it. He is so, so good at running this specific version of the offense that it allows everything to come together in a way that is just immensely cool. And I think in some ways it like, he helps protect Kyle Shanahan. Because when it was the Jimmy Garoppolo offense, when you have to go play action under center, you're right.

1:10:34You're putting yourself in a box by doing that stuff. And obviously Kyle Shanahan's schemes that stuff is up as well as anybody. but if it's like well the quarterback has to turn his back and throw the drift route no matter what well sometimes the backers like they get paid too like they're gonna go make a play and that's why

1:10:46Robert Mays: some of the jimmy garoppolo interceptions do we see from jimmy garoppolo over the last like they look so dumb but it's like you kind of have to make that throw in the offense and i think now doing what they can do you might get everyone you know one of those every now and then from purdy but it's a lot less often because he just they don't have to do as much of that stuff uh with him in the offense um really quickly i said jordan watkins was a rookie he's not he played last year but still a very young player he's been like a depth receiver for them the entire time and he's catching 50 yard post route touchdowns great adjustment on that by the way like that that play was a great ball it's a good scheme Purdy does a really good job actually of like they have a deep over route going from left to right on that play and he like does a good job of at the top of his drop like really selling the safety trying to get to come down to get it and then just throws that post route over the top Watkins makes a good adjustment like I do think Purdy's pocket movement in this game that's probably the last thing I want to say he had a number of plays where his pocket movement was really, really impressive.

1:11:40Robert Mays: And he can still hurt you as a scrambler, man. Yes. And he doesn't even really need that, I think, as often as he used to. But there was a play early in the second quarter. They go play action pass, and the tight end, I forget who it was, but just loses to Quay Walker around the edge. He steps up, gets perpendicular to the line of scrimmage for a second, snaps his shoulder back into a throwing position immediately and throws the crosshair. I'm like, if he could do that in the six times a game where it gets a little bit muddy, and all the other plays where it's clean, They're basically a perfect offense.

1:12:09I don't know, man. Like, they're just incredible.

1:12:12Robert Mays: It is hilarious to me that we've had moments, even like early in this season, like the Case Keenum start. People were like, well, they just don't make them like this anymore. And then you look at what the level of quarterback play that we are seeing in the NFL right now. Like, picking your MVP at this point, you can make an argument for seven guys. Yeah. Legitimately. Like, it wouldn't be hard to do. And what we've gotten from Bach Purdy, what we've gotten from Jordan Love, what we've gotten from Joe Burrow, the way that CJ Stroud is playing from the pocket right now, the way that Trevor Lawrence, I haven't looked in, like, the last couple weeks, but when I was trying to, I was making a broader point about, like, just pocket play in general, I don't really think of him as, like, a purely pocket player because he's such a good athlete and he can still do things.

1:13:03Robert Mays: He can still improv a little bit. I mean, some of the plays rolling to his left out of the pocket or some of the most impressive plays he makes. Lawrence, through the first, like, six weeks of the season, had the highest percentage of his attempts coming from the pocket in the NFL. And so you can throw him on that pile, too. What we've got, I said Jordan Love, right? I think so, yes. Stroud. I don't think you mentioned Josh Allen, but he's just so home at this point. Yeah, he's also a different thing. I'm, like, purely, like, from the pocket quarterback play. Jared Goff is maybe playing the best ball that he's played.

1:13:37Robert Mays: It's absolutely worth it. I'm sure I will have forgotten someone. But like that, that group of guys love golf, Purdy, Stroud, Burrow, Lawrence. Like it, we are getting such high level from the pocket quarterback play this year to the point that I think Brock Purdy absolutely would be like a deserving MVP at this stage with the way that he's playing with the way that he's producing. But you could easily make an argument for like three or four other guys. And to me, like Drake may is different than that. Josh Allen's different than that. Caleb is a little bit different than that. They move around.

1:14:10Robert Mays: They move around. Even if they're good in the pocket, obviously, there's a certain level you have to reach as an NFL quarterback. But like with May and Allen specifically, it is a lot of what they're doing as runners. Yes. And so but these guys like this group of like six or eight, the way that they are playing from the pocket this year has been so incredibly fun to watch. Like the league offensively is in a really, really good position. And that is hammered home when you watch like what Brock Purdy is doing and how he is pulling the strings of this off. Speaking of, we've got Josh Allen tonight against the Minnesota Vikings.

1:14:42Robert Mays: So if you were listening to this on Tuesday, that recap of Bill's Vikings is available for you on YouTube. It is available for you in your podcast feed. Me, Derek, and Dave are going to be in studio doing that one, which I'm very much looking forward to. Again, a reminder, tomorrow, 3.30 Eastern, 2.30 Central, we have our training camp. What the f***? training camp. We have our trade deadline recap coming to you at two 30 central tomorrow. Hopefully we get some action to dig into there. I'm just going to talk about the Andre Cisco trade for an hour. That's what we're going to end up doing tomorrow.

1:15:21Robert Mays: A lot of stuff on the docket over the next couple of days. Very much looking forward to it. Hope you guys are as well for now. That is all we got. Appreciate you listening. We will talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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