New Rule for Breaking Comedians

30:24Emilio Savone:We're literally going to be joined at the hip. So you're definitely a little more exposed at, and again, I don't want to say screwed, but a little more exposed at feeling like you're going to get screwed. or down the road a comic turn around say hey listen i'm gonna go work with them now you know because there's a lot of managers out there that can go two three years without ever making any money now the argument can be made well your job is to get work for me

30:51Emilio Savone:sure but in the way things are now it's different right like define that work because back in the day a really good manager can help you get a sitcom those don't exist anymore yeah do you The thing that I think artists misunderstand is that managers do a lot of non-commissionable work in order to build the profile or build the business so that inbound comes. And then when the inbound finally starts to come, the artists look at that and go, well, you didn't work for that. That came in anyway. And it's like, well, no shit. I mean, we've been working on this together for two years so that we could get inbound.

31:25Yeah.

31:26Emilio Savone:But that's also why I'm very selective with who I manage and who I want to work with, because the guys, you know, you know, the comedians that we work with, you know, I think they know they're so involved in my clubs. And, you know, they're there that we've worked together for so long. I don't ever feel like I'm like in a position to get kind of screwed, because, again, like my my hope is, hey, whether I manage you forever or not, we're still going to have a relationship together. you know like i've again there's comics i managed that we don't work together anymore in that front but in some ways i feel like i'm doing even more work with them now than i ever did before because this feeling of like oh we have to you know i i feel like a lot of times when i was when i do manage a comic there's this feeling of like well i have to do these things with you because you're my manager or i have to do these things with you because i represent you whereas now once you kind of get rid of that like oh you know i'm this linked to your business it's almost opens it's almost like no you know what we actually want to work together because we're adding value to each other's lives in a lot of different ways yeah you know and are you talking about like through your clubs through your ticketing through yeah it's through the club and that's that's the thing yeah look there's a lot of there's a lot of you know we've had you know comics i've worked with where the agents have been like look you know just not making enough money you know like that's the thing like that's the thing too i think agents if you're not making money for agents i think you're gonna get cut pretty quickly i really do think like the only value you bring to an agent is for them to make money on you and that's fair that's fair for the agent to think that way they 10 is not a lot of money you know think about it if you're a comedian you're making two million dollars a year that's really good money for a comedian but for an agency 200 grand is not a lot and that's not counting costs that's not counting salaries and all that stuff you need to get like 100 of those.

33:14Emilio Savone:You know, whereas for, you know, for me, you know, if, if an agent's like, look, you know, I'm just not making enough money off this comedian. I've had them say like, is it worth it for you? I said, yeah, totally. Because I'm not looking at it. Like I need them to be on the road. I'm looking at it. Like they're, they're, they're at my clubs or I get to be, I get to help bolster their careers where it's going to eventually benefit what I'm doing and what they're doing. because they're always going to be at my clubs. They're always going to be with us in some capacity. You know, so I've had temperature checks with comedians I manage where I'm like, hey, are we good?

33:52Emilio Savone:Is everything good here? You know, do you still feel like I'm adding value on the management side? If I'm not, it's okay for you to like want to go elsewhere. You know, I'll even help you, you know, go elsewhere because the relationship I have with them on all these other things we're doing is really important. But the management stuff is very important too because again, I do feel like I'm adding this different elements to them, to their businesses, because I'm seeing so many different things in so many different capacities at the club level, where I know if I apply this to what you're doing, it will help.

34:24What do you enjoy more?

34:29Emilio Savone:Look, I enjoy working comedians, whatever capacity that is. Look, the management stuff is really great. But it also, for me, has the most ebbs and flows. Because when it's going well for the comics, there's really nothing better. But when it's not going well for a comic, there's nothing worse. Because I feel like at the clubs, we have it kind of down to such a science. And there's so much happening at all times that we can kind of, if something's not working, it's okay. You know, like it's almost like, look, the show is not working. We can't really work with you anymore because it's just not bringing up people.

35:13Emilio Savone:Or I could work with a different comic on one night or I have all these other people that are involved. I got all these bookers. You know, it's it just feels a little more like it's just the club level. I feel like you're not as tightly embedded with them on a personal level. Management is very personal, you know. And again, the comedians I work with on the management level really are like family. So if a comic, if it's not working as well as I hope, it affects me deeply. And it's really not as much about the money for me on the management level because, again, it doesn't have to be. If I was just running a management company, it would look very differently.

35:55Emilio Savone:um i wouldn't i wouldn't in some weird ways when a comic wants to get off the road i almost like that more than when they're on the road because it gives us an opportunity to breathe and get into strategy right whereas when they're on the road you know there's just so many things that can you know this club stinks or treat me poor it's like there's more things that are almost out of my control. Right. So, so again, when, when we didn't, weren't them, when we, I got into management because I just, I just really love working with comedians. I like working with artists. That's my favorite thing about anything that I do.

36:34So I don't know if I answered your

36:36Emilio Savone:question. I mean, again, I love running the clubs, but the thing is, is like, and this is going to sound strange. I am almost in the way, the clubs in a lot of ways, we have three bookers, we have to basically operations managers. I got such a great team. They know what they're doing. So a lot of ways, the reason why we do all these other things is because I'm like, oh, I got to find something to do. That's a great place to be. You know what I mean? Yeah. So yeah, the worst part about it all though is when you have to really look at it as a business. And again, that's the scary thing about, again, the Junes of the world.

37:15Emilio Savone:because whenever the clubs suffer our minds always go to oh man is this other stuff we're doing taken away from it do we need to stop doing this other stuff but but i i think that's a very uh prisoner of the moment way of looking at it i just look at everything in such a macro way so and again it could be good or bad you know and i think this is where my partner and i really offset each other really well he's very much like in the moment like hey no no this is affecting us right now we got to do something about it right now whereas i'm a little more like hey just weather the storm it's okay let's not blow it all up you know we're doing good we're you know we just got to keep with it it's gonna oh it's gonna benefit us eventually you know what i mean you mentioned that things can go wrong in an artist's career and that's when it's not so fun as a manager what are the big mistakes that comics make when they start to get traction and it actually the traction stops and things start to derail i think i think the biggest mistake and it's hard i think the biggest mistake is to be like you know it's difficult because comedians do make their money you know by being on the road but the hardest part is to get a comic to understand hey listen get off the road you know find find a way gotta find a way to make money without being on the road tell me about a time when you've had that conversation with a comic oh man i had it with um god i've had it i think i've had it with uh it wasn't as dire but i've had it with a bunch of comics just before the summer i was like listen i think we gotta like not have you on the road this much in the summer because summertime is not a great time as it is and all we're gonna do is put you in places where tickets might not get sold and it's gonna hurt you in the long run so let's just try to be methodical and put you in low hanging fruit places put you in places already have a good built-in audience put you in places where they're going to sell tickets anyway you might not have the opportunity to make a ton of money but you'll make more money than you were would in new york and you're still going to be out there and it's you're still going to be doing road gigs but it's like kind of limited exposure right yeah i mean i have i think i had this conversation with most comics you know even even when comics are selling a lot of tickets you have to pull it back a little bit and be protective of that.

39:35Emilio Savone:But I think it does scare a lot of comedians, rightfully so, because again, if you're making your money on the road, how do you tell them, listen, we can't have you on the road because eventually it's going to really hurt you. And Eric Newman's a prime example. You know, Eric is someone who is selling a lot. He was doing really well like three years ago. And it's not like he wasn't doing well on the road, but he kind of plateaued a bit. And he was really someone who like really took it to heart where I was like, listen you are you make a living in new york and you can get private gigs here and there and you're you're someone who can make money in many capacities uh let's just what do you want to do and he really wanted to do this documentary documentary he really wanted to try to get on a streaming platform he's done all that it's coming out it's been out on roku for last week or so and so now we're like cool let's get you back on the road and so what i've been noticing is when i've reached out to different venues about him they've all been like oh yeah we're wondering what happened with Eric.

40:28Emilio Savone:Like, you know, we know he was doing really well and, you know, we've seen him off the road. So now they're intrigued. Like, cool. Yeah. Oh, cool. He's doing this Roku thing. Awesome. Yeah. Let's, let's get him back here. But that's a luxury. Not a lot of comics have that luxury. You know, a lot of comics have two kids or three kids when they're married and they got to, so it's, it's tough to get them to think that way, you know? So, and then sometimes like, all right, cool. Help me make money. Like, how am I going to make money by being in New York? You know, now, again, I'm fortunate because, you know, we try to keep the club somewhat separate from the management stuff.

41:00Emilio Savone:I know that sounds strange, but we do. I don't want to be I don't want it to seem like the only way you're going to get spots is because you're managing you. That's not fair to the rest of the comics in New York. But, you know, fortunately, you know, if there's an instance where one of the comics really is struggling and we're working with, I can always feed them more at the clubs if need be. but we try not to use the clubs like that because i think that's where you can get a bad reputation oh that club they only fuck with people that they manage and the reality is we don't manage that many comics anyway we you know we have about five to six comics in our roster and we do that on purpose i don't really want to manage a million other comics in fact what i've learned through the management stuff is what i've recognized is the things i really enjoy and don't enjoy so one of the things that we really love doing for comics is helping them market themselves so what we're actually doing now for a lot of comics that we don't manage is we're running a lot of their ads so we've kind of pivoted a bit into and again i still manage my guys and i'm still intimately involved in their whole thing but i've had a lot of comics that reached out and be like hey you know i'm looking for management and i've said well listen you know i don't want to i always say i don't want to have my hand in your pocket i don't want to create a relationship where you feel like you have to give me 10 percent of everything but what we can do is we can kind of apply a lot of stuff we do with our management clients to what you're doing so i put them in touch with our head of marketing and you know in terms of helping them with their ad spends i'll put them in touch with our label so we can maybe do an album with you or or distribute your next special well i'll put you into in touch with our head of production at youtube so come and do some youtube shows with us so we basically have like this a la carte package that we can do with you and you're still getting you're getting benefits as if we're managing you not the full thing but But you're getting some benefits.

42:44Emilio Savone:And that for me is much more scaled because there's only so many people I can service as a manager. And if I want to add another 10 to 20 clients and then have to hire another two to three people, that just becomes a big pain. But in terms of us running your ads, you being on the label, maybe you using our ticketing platform for when you're on the road, that's all. We can add 20 or 30 comics without ever having to hire any more labor. so we're doing that with a lot of comics now that's cool and what do you charge a fee for that um not real well yes for the ad spend we'll charge a fee but it's nothing crazy it's like if if you want to run like let's say you want to do an ad campaign and you're doing a show like you know you know you're in somewhere i don't know you're in idaho for a weekend uh we'll say okay let's try and do like a 200 ad budget and we'll like add like another 100 bucks on top for the service yeah right it's immaterial yeah but then we go over the analytics with you we'll go over how everything looks i mean it's all there it's not like back in the day where you do an ad in time out new york and you have no idea what the hell's going on yeah we know what's going on we'll be like hey listen there's another we've we've you know all the 200 bucks 150 bucks has been spent we're actually getting really good traction how are the ticket sales going at the clubs we get the ticket sales report all right cool so it's actually working you want to add another 100 bucks to it it's like stuff like that you can't be making many money from that why are you doing that that seems like a lot of work for not much income no no you'd be surprised like if well again it's this is something new we've been doing for the last six months but this is where it becomes helpful they we're doing that cool i want to be part of your label now great you know i might want to use your ticketing great so what's happening is a lot of comics that we've done this for now they're doing the beacon yeah and guess who's co-promoting those shows okay it's the it's the milk and bread in the supermarket totally yes okay i mean you're not gonna you're not gonna rich off of comedians using you as an agency for their ad spends yeah but where you can make some really good money is when as they continue to get bigger right now they're working with a live nation or they're working with another company that that's not coming out of their pocket we'll be in touch with one of the promoters and say hey yeah this is what the ad budget looks like yeah awesome okay i'm gonna play you a clip that you said last episode about netflix and let's talk about it yeah putting your special let's be very clear here putting your special on hbo hulu netflix it will not help you in any way sell tickets what i thought that was the only reason you would do it no you only do it so you can say you had a netflix special were you wrong about netflix uh yes and no okay okay so netflix did a special or a series called funniest fuck with Kevin Hart.

45:24Emilio Savone:Major impact on the comedians that were on that, to my delight. Four of the comedians are very much part of our club. Reg Thomas, Usama Sadiqe, Caitlin Plufo, Olivia Carter. Comics that we are seeing massive uptick in their sales. However, purely from the show. 100 % from the show. Now, Usama was already in Caitlin. I think we're on a trajectory. Yeah. But Reg was someone that we worked for a long time, always really funny. Without a doubt, this has changed his life for now. We'll see what happens and this creates longevity. But that was not a Netflix special. That was a reality show, much like Last Comic Standing.

46:05Emilio Savone:And Kevin Hart was attached to it. And again, it had a major impact on finding the talent. I don't know if you're someone like, I don't know if you're already an established comic and you do a Netflix special, that's going to really kind of help you that much more. But what made me kind of change my tune now is I would be very interested to see if Netflix pivoted and started working with comics that were a little lesser known and giving them specials and almost doing like a breakout series, if that would have an impact on ticket sales. Haven't they done that? Have they? I feel like there's... They did Netflix as a joke, but that wasn't really...

46:43Emilio Savone:I mean, Tim Dillon did it. Mark Norman did it. Sam Morrill did it. Chris DiStefano. I mean, Jared Freed. So I still maintain that a special on YouTube, if you're a comic and you want to move tickets, you're better off doing a special on YouTube than Netflix. However, the funniest fuck that Netflix did has had a major impact on the comics. And I think it's because the format was different. So was I wrong? No. But because these weren't specials. but was I wrong in saying that having stuff in Netflix can't have an impact? And I don't know if I necessarily said that. I just talk about the specials.

47:21Emilio Savone:But if that's what people took from it, then yes, I was wrong on that. Because, again, I'm seeing massive, massive impact that it's having for those four comedians. So you've recently run two races with one of your comics. Yes. Joe DeRosa put his special up on YouTube. So, yeah. So Joe, and I can't really talk too much of it, but Joe put his special up on YouTube. It did exceptional. We had pitched it to a bunch of streamers. They originally, you know, loved Joe. You pitched it before he put it up on YouTube. What's that? You pitched it before he put it up on YouTube. Yes. They passed. The special got probably one of the most, it probably got one of the most positive.

48:04Emilio Savone:I mean, it was highly touted as like one of the best specials. You know, a bunch of different like, you know, magazines or different outlets and platforms, you know, had in the top five specials of the year. you know i believe the times did a piece on it and and a vulture did a piece on it and it was really kind of like in the style you know joe you know it's had a very horror film vibe to it it played into kind of his like dark humor it was filmed at the um at the colonial theater which is in his hometown of phoenixville where the where the uh the blob was filmed you know again if it felt very comic booky and very like kind of horror filmy and there was a lot of camera angles that or shot to the audience where people weren't laughing, you know?

48:44Emilio Savone:So it was, it had like an awkward vibe to it. And then, you know, recently we got approached by one of the streamers and they were very much like, Hey, like we, you know, we basically, you know, we, we missed the boat on this one. Like this, this, this special was exceptional. This was a streamer that passed originally. Yes. Honestly, that's a big credit to them, for them like swallowing their pride. 100%. Yeah. we made a mistake. Yeah, and so again, we can't really say, maybe by the time this comes out, because it is premiering on this streamer in early August. So I can't really say which one yet, but yeah, it's going to be on a streamer, and it's excellent.

49:25Emilio Savone:And that's what you'll want. How many views did it get on YouTube? Close to a million. So you get, so that's - And what was cool is Joe, so Joe, he didn't even have a YouTube channel. Like his YouTube channel, it never existed. So we were able, it was kind of perfect because his youtube never existed it's not like he had years and years of content that we had to clean up and try to like reorganize things and kind of refeed his audience because we're able to start from scratch we were able to really identify things pretty quickly and understand where his audience was what they liked what they didn't like so when we did release a special it got so much like traction because there wasn't all these million things for people to sift through so the special was really able to the special to a fresh channel no subscribers no subscribers what the hell and i got nearly a million views yep crazy right okay so you got nearly a million views that's a really good marker to know that if you get rejected by all the platforms you get nearly a million views they're gonna come like i think that's a really good but here's what's cool and this is where i'm gonna give the the streamer a lot of credit i don't think they cared about the views it was just such a good special i mean obviously having nearly a million views matters and joe is a guy that passed on the special though they did and joe is a guy though who is like wildly regarded as just you know he's a vet he's hilarious he's someone that people you know are rooting for you know he's done kill tony he's been on he's been on like a bunch of things like um he's kind of been in like you know the platform that's working with him he's kind of already kind of been involved in a lot of stuff there so i think they looked at it like hey you know we we want to actually have like just really good stuff too yeah okay so it was it was really it was really cool to see that because again i i think this is where things are changing a bit where i think a lot of the platforms now like hulu for example hulu just did a special matt richards you know now granted it was through kevin hart um kevin hart produced it and matt was someone who was on the netflix funniest fuck he didn't make it all the way through but through that he called kevin hart's attention and now kevin has produced a special which is on hulu which is weird.

51:28Emilio Savone:You think it'd be on Netflix. And Matt is not someone who is, you know, at that level yet where he's selling a million tickets, where he's like a household name, but he's so funny that he got to get a Hulu special. So I think these streamers now are starting to put quality more so over just pure numbers. And I think Joe is a prime example of someone like, Hey, if you do, if you do it the right way, you know, it can happen for you. Now he's getting, not to cut you off, he's going to get the benefits of both worlds. because you know i think what you're saying contradicts what happened because he created a brilliant special they all saw it they passed on it and it wasn't until he got the views where they're like oh yeah we fucked up we want it back yeah so i feel like they're still looking at numbers yeah probably yeah yeah but i think that is almost a good story because i it means that as a comic your career is in your own control even if everybody passes on you just put numbers on the board and become undeniable and i'm really excited for joe because i think joe is going to be joe will be a real real telltale sign as to whether or not like i'm really going to know now more than any comic i've worked with will this will this platform have a real big impact true now i'm really going to know and do you have to take off his special down from youtube no it's going to be on both it's going to yeah so it's really cool it's a non-exclusive it can go on anywhere where we want yeah yeah it's really it's really an outcome congratulations yeah it's really great we're really excited so so you've got now kevin hart has built this funny af platform which can break comics right that's really cool that's a new thing in the industry now a new channel that can break new comics kill tony's obviously had it for a while and and you've obviously got the big uh podcasts that have been able to break comics as well are they the three main platforms where new comics can break youtube still youtube right now more than anything youtube youtube now is is the numero uno thing the number one thing people are are you know if you can convert your youtube into like almost running it like a network it's it's a we are finding through our own analytics that more people now are watching youtube on their tv than they've ever had which is massive more people watch youtube on their tv and then watch netflix you know you're it's the number one so think about that yeah that wasn't always the case and most people you know youtube was more of like a passive thing they'd be on their phone whatever they'd be trying now they're going and dude i'm doing it i used to never watch youtube ever like i'm old i'm 48 years old i would just watch whatever you're giving me you know i i still would have like my cable you know and just watch that but you know it's funny since the knicks have you know gone through this run i just want to watch my content and now I'm being fed all the things I want to watch.

54:21Emilio Savone:And now I literally just watch, I watch stuff on YouTube. So, but so, so that's huge. So think about, so again, if you're a comedian, I would beef up your YouTube as much as possible. And, and again, creating your own ecosystem. And you know, what's happened with Joe is a prime example is if you do it a certain way and you create your own stuff, they're going to want to come to you. You just got to look at it in a very common rationale way of thinking. It's like anything. If you're someone who wants to get a good job, you know, if you go to the right schools, if you get the right internships, if you take care of your side of the street, those jobs will become available to you.

55:03Emilio Savone:You know, if you want to be in the right relationship, take care of yourself, eat well, Make sure that you're put together. Make sure that you have a good job. Whatever the case is, if you take care of your side of the street, things will happen for you. Opportunities will come. So again, comics. The number one thing I'll tell comics is I know it's tough. I know you didn't get into this to run a YouTube channel. You didn't get into this to become a social media director. You just want to be funny. Trust me, as someone who runs comedy clubs, all I want is to be able to work with funny people. But the reality is, is that you have to run stuff like a business.

55:40Okay. So finish this sentence for me then. Most funny comics never break out because.

55:47Emilio Savone:They are resistant towards the evolution of the industry. They're resistant towards this ever growing change that is the internet. And I get it. But you don't have to compromise yourself. you know you can you can there is there is a middle there is a there is kind of a hedge here and again uh you know and and i'm grateful to the comics that i work with because they are uncompromising you know katie boyle is a comedian i manage katie is fucking dude she she is in charge of her shit she is not going to chase but she also understands hey you know I'm being found on the internet. I will put some stuff out here that might feed this, but I will not become that, if that makes sense.

56:35Emilio Savone:Give me an example. Well, listen, you know, everyone knows her as like, you know, she's the Irish comic, you know, like she just did The Tonight Show. And she got Tonight Show on St. Paddy's Day, you know. And in her mind, she's like, you know, she was grateful and it was awesome. But there's an element of like, am I only, you know, am I leaning too hard to this Irish comic stuff? But the truth is she gets a lot of traction with it. So the way she's so smart is she'll give little tidbits to kind of get people to come to her stuff. And then people are saying, oh, my God, I didn't realize that Katie is so much more than this.

57:08Emilio Savone:So, again, I think a lot of comedians feel like, well, I don't want to play into the algorithm. I don't want to play into this thing I'm not. And 100%, we don't want you to. But you can drop little things here and there to get people to come over to you. And then you can change their minds and you can get them to see, oh, this is who you really are. you know i there was a show called guy code back in the day on the africa andrew schultz you know was on guy code before schultz was selling like he was you know he started really but i mean once he he was starting to sell tickets i remember back in like 2017 right and there was a period of time where a lot of people from guy code still now a lot of a lot of those guy code comics you know like andrew like chris carly aquilino um they still get fans to remember them from guy code but guy code was a very bubble gummy you know talking head show on mtv i remember i'll never forget it was like 2017 andrew had like 20 people that came to like one of his shows and they all got up and left and he comes in the green room he's like dude i'm so sorry i walked that whole audience i was like dude screw them i'm like they were coming here to see you as the guy code guy that's not who you are as a comic you know so i'm like you just basically um did yourself a big favor because now you know those aren't your real fans you know you can now the if they had stayed that would have been awesome because now you know cool now they're here for the whole ride you know and my evolution as a comedian so so yeah i think um yeah so i think you know every comic has an opportunity to almost bring an audience with them you know it's it's it's it look it has a little bit of a sales tact to it but a little sales tactic to it but it's you know i i think a lot of comics are just resistant towards if you're resistant towards what's going on it might really affect you can't be so stubborn and i think a lot of comics have done this in a really a really good way you know like again sam moral you know sam is a purist he's like a traditional stand-up comic who 10 years ago would never probably have done a lot of this stuff online and now he does all these things but he's not changed as a comic he's still you know do you think comics are changing the way they write because of this clip economy with the algorithm i don't think they're changing the way they write but i think they have different genres within their their kind of world i think a lot of comics might do well i'm going to do a crowd work because i can get a clip out of it and i might do topical stuff because i can get this out of it i think they're thinking like I can do certain things to feed certain stuff within my career, but I don't think that's necessarily changing them as a comic, you know?

59:39Emilio Savone:And that's why I think it's, and that's why I reject the notion that if you're doing a big show at Radio City or at the Beacon or Mass Square Garden, that you are too scared to put your name on a lineup at our club or another club because people might not come to see you. I reject that because if no one's going to come and see you for 15 minutes and be like, oh yeah now now i'm not gonna go see them for an hour if anything they're gonna be more likely to want to come see you for the hour people actually see it like they got to see yes you in this intimate room and they feel closer to you and it's like it's like part of the relationship totally then then they go see you do the garden or beacon or whatever they'll say oh my god i saw work that out yeah exactly i think comedians and i think i think i think i think i think everyone in any kind of art form, whether you're a musician, whether you're a comedian, an artist, whether you're running clubs, whether it's music or comedy clubs, I think we underestimate the audience.

1:00:37Emilio Savone:I don't think we give the audience enough credit. The audience is smart. Well, the biggest podcast in the world are comedians talking about the industry. Like the fans know about it now. They know how it all works. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they, I think when you let them in on what's going on, it brings them closer to what's they want to be more involved yeah yeah exactly emilio let's go watch argentina in spain let's do it buddy thanks for having me again luke i appreciate it thanks so much see you back all right oh i'm back i don't take breaks the world need more hope i pray it ain't too late i don't know what the plot is most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day data brokers are making billions pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent.

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