Mark Tapscott and Daniel Davey with Rory Sutherland and Elfried Samba on Britain's 1st EV sportscar

27:40And I suddenly realized this whole thing is kind of bullshit because I'm there nervous with 50 miles range because I saw that as, you know, in other words, it was only a sixth full. In my wife's car, that's basically two thirds full and I felt absolutely fine. And I suddenly realized entirely this whole thing. We've effectively directed an insane amount of energy into increasing range. Because that was, for whatever reason, became this arbitrary metric. And actually, the price we've paid is a whole load of batteries sitting there doing nothing outside people's houses most of the time, with range that's unused except six times a year.

28:19It's completely nuts. The entire industry is so focused on what's your Nürburgring-Lapreckle times? What's your horsepower and what's your range? That's all I saw the other day. There's a car that is - The Nürburgring thing. Clarkson, all credit to him, actually had a go at that, didn't he? No one actually drives like that ever because your passengers would vomit and half the time you'd crash. It has the complete opposite effect. It makes a car objectively worse on the road if you build it for the Nürburgring. Because of course the ride will be less pleasant. Everything will be nastier. That's it.

28:51so when you take a perspective of you know you're not building something for this use case that nobody's really looking at the range use case making a car electric vehicle go a long way it's really easy just keep stuffing more batteries in it it doesn't make it a better vehicle better vehicle no no well and it's also this um again i see now a thousand kilowatt charge you can charge your car in five minutes i mean i've been in a lucid and i stopped to get a starbucks and by the time i came back 300 miles were in it you know like 10 minutes you're like no one is in that much of a rush and if you are fly well we're breads we're going to tea anyway we've got we've got to stop for a cup of tea anyway so it's completely and against us so it's completely arbitrary really the whole thing so how fast can this charge go on you the people are going to want to know so very simply if you want to drive 500 miles you need to stop once for 45 minutes there you go well you're going to do that anyway so unless you have the some fantastic bladder control exactly yeah okay so we put a there's a fast charger in it but it doesn't need to be too high because our batteries aren't too big.

29:49But also, it's a car to drive. So enjoy the journey. Maybe stop twice for 40 minutes and enjoy a view because there's chargers literally absolutely everywhere on the planet now. You don't have to rustle around for them and find them. So it's not a car. If you're driving, commuting to Edinburgh and back every day, don't get on the car. Don't buy this car. Train probably would be my suggestion. I always said, if you're doing that kind of journey every day, you don't need a car, you need an estate agent, really, do you? You need a life coach, I think, actually. You just change your whole life. There's an underlying fundamental problem here.

30:26I literally wrote an article in The Spectator. This guy ranted to me about how he routinely drove from North London to Glasgow in his diesel without stopping. Well, I just hope it had brown upholstery, really, because that sounds like an absolutely appalling thing to do. and I did kind of say why don't you just move to Glasgow but the whole thing is an extraordinary case where one arbitrary metric becomes the focus of attention to a complete level of absurdity and the technical side of things isn't actually the challenge now really it's kind of your point you were making it's how do you have someone have more of an emotional involvement or an attachment to something that often people now refer to as an appliance, a dishwasher they're driving or similar.

31:15So it's that theatre and that emotional connection that you've got to try and bring in that's actually where we'd probably focus more of our efforts, that driving experience itself. And one hopes, because I think reliability is a bit of a... I mean, you will have presumably very good customer service, because I think it's very important if you're a niche brand that you make up for it in a sense by having someone on the end of the phone. Well, we actually, we limit the number of reservations we're willing to take. because of that? Well, we want to be able to have, you know, right now we can, in the future it will change, but a one-to-one interaction with people.

31:46In fact, we've got an amazing board, which really, really helps us. So Mike Flewett, who was the former CEO of McLaren, Michael van der Sander, the former CEO of Alpine and SBO, Dan Barmer, the former CEO of Lotus. So we're kind of like the three horsemen of the apocalypse of the sports car world we have on our board. And one of the best things Mike said to us was that when he was launching McLaren, Yeah. He spoke to every one of his customers and asked them, what do you want? So great idea, Mike. Thanks very much. We've got probably more customers than you did. So we kind of did a cut off point around 200 customers in the first couple of weeks, but we had one-to-one conversation with all of them and said, Hey, you know, what is it?

32:26What is it you want? Why did you buy this? What's going to keep you engaged and interested? Because of course there's this buildup period now, right? between putting your money down back in March for some people and actually receiving a vehicle at the end of this year. You've got to keep people warm. But how do we, more than that, I think it's keeping them warm is one thing, keeping them even more excited, maybe even not even wanting the car to be delivered because we do a whole lot of interesting things between then and the car arriving that they just want to stay involved in what we call... In the romance, the honeymoon period.

32:55What's the spread between US, UK, European? Where are the customers? us 50 uk 30 us 20 rest of the world that's well got it yeah and that probably mirrors where we've had so we haven't spent a penny on marketing we've only done three press releases so we um you know build it then you know make it efficient and then then make it big right so get good before you get big yeah um yeah but i want to pick up one thing you said earlier about the challenge a brand or I think for us, authenticity is so important. And we speak to customers because they know better what they want. And we only know what we know, right?

33:36So one of our principles is you can never have enough advice. You don't have to listen to it, but you need to hear it first to decide whether you should listen to it or not. And the customers, because they're people who want our car, give us such great advice on the product, on what we should do as a company, what we shouldn't do, where they hated other companies, and how other companies changed. And we need to listen to that and use that as part of the blueprint for building the company as well, and the product. And that's why perhaps we've been successful is ultimately we're building the car that we want as founders, but we're also listening to feedback on what other people think should be in the car and in the company to make sure that we're from the beginning building in the right way.

34:14So three-press releases. One of the things is that in electric people, customers will be braver because they understand the simplicity of the device. So the terror that was always involved in buying an obscure car brand. Everybody deep down wanted an Alfa Romeo, you know what I mean? But you have that terror of spare parts servicing, all those things, or that it's more likely to go wrong because it's simply a car manufactured to a lower volume. And my hope is that in electric, consumers will become braver, just as I hope people will become braver in terms of color, by the way. You know, the roads look totally dismal now, don't they?

34:50It's like a bloody funeral. You know, everybody's car is black or silver or dark gray. And my hope is that, you know, as I suppose I think is happening in this watch industry we were talking about, people will actually become more adventurous because that's the huge opportunity. And by the way, I mean, in all kinds of ways. I'm a huge fan of that thing, the microlino. I think that's a wonderful thing. Yeah, very cool. My wife won't let me go to Kensington High Street when drunk, because she knows I'll just wander into the showroom and buy one. But car-like objects, I call them, any form of electric mobility, what we need to see is vastly more variety, and cars have become slightly tedious in all manner of respects, I think.

35:38you need to trick people right so what i mean by that is impossible foods yeah shifted from being a green brand that sells you vegan into leaning into being a meat brand so they if if we go and i mean so our car has a lower carbon footprint of birth than any sports car so you know your carbon debt you normally pay off we don't have that so from when you start driving because we use um recycled materials we use recycled aluminium we have um so so and our main investors in Article 9 fund in us as well because of the environmental credentials and the additionality of us replacing the most polluting vehicles on the road.

36:15That's... Oh, which are gasoline sports cars. Correct. That's why in the high street they're idling and spewing out V8s into everyone's children while they're waiting for school, right? It's the worst thing you can do. That's why we're doing it. If we did that, no one would buy a thing. No. We are a gorgeous sports car company and you're buying it because it's cool and it drives well and all the journalists are saying it drives well. here, which is it doesn't matter if people do the right thing for the wrong reasons. Absolutely. And my second mantra is that environmental claims are a very good backing group, but they're not a good lead singer.

36:46Exactly. Yeah. It's very, no, no. And also having bought an electric car, I now found it almost impossible to conceive of, except when I occasionally rent one, I could never conceive of owning another gasoline car. So it's changed my behavior, but it hasn't done it for the, you know, I suppose it hasn't done it by an overt appeal to my environmental concern. It simply made me more concerned. And you can tell everyone that's why you did it. No one knows the real reason. Yeah. Going back to that point. So my whole approach to distribution and whenever we speak to brands, it's all about meeting customers where they're selfish, right?

37:23You have to meet people where they're selfish, right? That's the real reason you're like, your agenda, what you're building it for should be for a positive reason, because that's the justifier that they say to everybody else. But what they will buy for is for whatever their selfish reason is. So you have to think about both things. Okay, what's the positive thing about buying our brand? What's the selfish reason to buy our brand? How do we make sure that we lean in with the selfish side because you feel like it's individualized, but then arm you with a response when people say, well, why did you buy that?

37:55And they'll be like, oh yeah, because it's environmentally friendly. And if you arm them with both of those two things, that's a win-win, right? And I think that you guys have done that because when we started, you could have led with, oh, we're doing environmental, you've been told about the fact that you don't actually talk about how much energy efficient it is. You don't even talk about that because that should happen, but so what? What else? What else, right? And you focus on the what else as opposed to just the thing that anybody else can just copy, which I think is phenomenal, right? Did you guys do that intentionally?

38:27Was it, we want to make a great car first and then solve the planet? Or was it, we want to solve the planet. How do we do this in the coolest way possible? Was there ever that thinking? Or was it, it would be great to get you guys' thoughts? Well, it actually also started from a spreadsheet. Because it's very easy to design a beautiful car in your head and go, that's it. People would love that piece. But there's got to be like a strong business foundation and case behind it. From the spreadsheet. Okay. Absolutely. So, yeah, so it's easier to apply beauty onto numbers than trying to do it the other way around, for sure.

39:00And I think with what you're saying, there's also, we often say there's nothing sexier than price sometimes as well. And there is, the world does not need any more$2 million hypercars. It doesn't change things, fortunately, for very many people. But if we can produce something that is beautiful, that's reliable, using components that have done a million miles of testing from all the other big OEMs, OEMs, and we're putting that into our car now. And at a price point that a lot more people can afford, that should be a whole sexy package itself. And when you say building it from the spreadsheet, so you say, what are the parts?

39:35And then what's the car? How would you actually walk through that process? It's market, right? So where's the opportunity? So we're not going to come in and compete with the Chinese in a D-segment SUV, because they'll wipe the floor of us, and we need four billion pounds in 10 years so where's no one buying electric where's your highest margins and where do people care most about brand and drivability if we go and do a so speedster starts at 85 000 pound if we do an 85 000 pound suv it needs to flow across the yangtze to be competitive if we do an 85 000 pound sports car and rip everything away and terrify you with it with and it looks gorgeous and it's the best thing you've driven but without all of the things are expensive and features and functionality people rip our arm off so we start with that but then also you they're also the uk is the home of the two-seater roadster it's a spiritual home of the whole thing but not as a hyper car and that's the thing so a lot of people said great it's kites 400 000 pound everyone's buying it and i remember this meeting with uh i say with uh with someone um and they're like we can charge what we want because people want it and like that is such a crass approach to it.

40:40You know, the... Actually, if you can build a sports car that's£85 ,000 with margins that we do, I mean, we're positive margins on 150 car programmers, a new brand. Whoa. If you can build that car at that price point of money, then when you build... That's one head of a spreadsheet. That information that actually you can profitably build at low volumes. And our second car's£20 ,000 cheaper and has higher margins. Because they're not mutually exclusive. And so anyone in the automotive industry, the reason that automotive industry struggles with margins is because they've got 40 ,000 people who are shuffling paper around.

41:20That's why. And they're speaking to suppliers that have 40 ,000 people shuffling paper around. If you cut out all of those people... You are Christy Cost, all right. Because it's 2026 and you should be cutting out, not from a jobs perspective, but from a company process and construction perspective. A car company in 2026 needs to be constructed differently to car companies that were built in the early 1900s. You have to, otherwise you've got a losing format from the beginning. You wouldn't even build it in the way that Tesla was built 15, 20 years ago. It's different again today. So a lot of what we do is like a decentralized model.

41:53So working with the best people that are already doing the storming, norming, performing thing as a team, they can come in, they can design the best component that we need, and then we don't need them anymore from that until we need the next piece to come together. So we often talk about it as the sort of the film analogy. So you're producing a film. You have the producer. You have the actors. You don't own the actors all the time. They go off and do other things, learn stuff, and then they can come back to you with that extra knowledge. It's very interesting because I fought unsuccessfully with an advertising agency to make this point repeatedly, which I kept saying, look, there is no chance in hell that Rick Rubin is going to come into the office Monday to Friday, five days a week.

42:30but the existence of Zoom means that we could have Rick Rubin and equivalent people on call for an hour or two when needed. And actually, it's very interesting because actually, you know, I think whole models of employment, what's so interesting to me is that existing companies are driven absolutely insane by things like remote working. But nobody who starts a company from scratch is taking out huge office space or hiring HR. In other words, everybody who leaves a large company and then finds a small one, has effectively, you know, has a natural aversion to what they see as completely wasteful norms, which just permeate the whole thing.

43:10Which is why I think that the new competitors of the new brands are going to come off the back of the pandemic and all these, like, mass layoffs. It's not going to be the competitors that the historic brands already see. It's going to be new people working in new ways. Like, for example, with our company, like, typically for the kind of brands we work with, you'd be like a hundred person agency. And we're like, well, we only need the creative people some of the time. We need the operators and strategists most of the time. And we need the production people when the deal's done. So why don't we just use it as such, right?

43:43And as long as you maintain really great relationships and you make it very valuable for everybody, then it works as a really great system, right? And that's what you guys have done. Hollywood owns nothing. Yeah. I mean, you have these extraordinary warehouses on the outside of London, which just have cables for film. And everything is simply deployed when necessary. You assemble the team together and then they drift off again. It's program management, right? And what one of our advisors, John Davy, talks about, I think it's like the 15th of February, 2026, is where the world changed. So the Claude Cowork.

44:16right so for us now if you think about um if you think about a car company everyone's like when you're building it like building's the end of it that's the easy bit if you've done if you've got a problem then then good luck to you right it's the it's uh analogy is it's it's the recipe right so creating the recipe finding the right suppliers for the best ingredients to build the best cake and then refining the recipe in your cake building method is the hard bit all people see at the end desire you've got great cake right like baking the cake in the oven is really easy once you've done the rest and that bit is a huge pretty and that's what when we talk about these large car companies that's what it is giant program management functions um but with with a tool like and you need a program manager to keep an eye on top of that and keep an eye on top of that but with a tool like you know co-worker agentic ai you've got ever seeing it's the eye of sauron across your vehicle program you know and it updates and it updates in real time and and And you don't miss anything because it doesn't miss anything.

45:15It doesn't sleep. It doesn't miss anything. So driving a really effective program in a decentralized model is much easier than it has ever been because you've got the eye of Sauron and it's getting better every minute. This is a really interesting philosophical point, which is a large reason for the existence of very large companies was all to do with information. And if information is basically as available, and it was also the structures of those companies was all about the reporting up of the information. where it could be aggregated and processed in some central thing. And changed on its way up.

45:48And totally distorted on its way up. You're absolutely right. I can't say that. No, no, this is absolutely terrifying, but absolutely scarily true, undoubtedly. And you might argue that, well, actually, to some extent, the internet and Zoom, by the way, which we don't talk about as much because they're old technologies, but married that to AI. and the actual imperative to be large isn't entirely clear anymore, is it? Well, truth and power are normally opposites. Yes, completely right. But they're not now. So you all of a sudden have an opportunity to be all-powerful and all-truth-seeing. You know, sometimes the best is disinfectant.

46:29And again, it's the eye of Sauron. There is no brighter light on information than an AI agent programmed to sniff it out. So conceivably, if you decided to expand, you would almost do what churches do, which is you would seed other companies in your image rather than actually growing. We're staying focused. So we will do a North America derivative brand because it's important because 50 ,000 cars sold in North America Corvettes and Americans want to buy a Corvette. So we can't tell them it's a British car and they want to buy a Corvette. So you need to have a sub-brand. Your third plan will be a North American sub-brand.

47:04Just a derivative. So if we've really got the platforms, if we've really got the movement, and we know how to launch brands and operate them, we'll have our movement married to another North America brand that operates independently and is very Americana to appeal to that market. You can also go for Australia and New Zealand with that market, by the way. Weird muscle car culture. But small market and start with a spreadsheet. The biggest places in the world to sell sports cars are Europe, Japan, and the US. And the US is by far the biggest. And then it's basically just five cities in the US. But for us as a company, if we get to, we're aiming for 15 ,000 cars is kind of where we want to get to, which is very small in automotive terms.

47:44But if we're selling 15 ,000 cars a year and we've got a two-year lead time on those cars and we're at high margins. It's a great business. It's a great business. The problem comes when you try and get too greedy or vanity and you want to get too big. Yes. You know, then you start, okay, how do we get that 5%, 10 % annual compound growth rate to appeal to our shareholders? That's your trap, you know? Yeah, we always talk about, so my co-founder and I always talk about where does the pressure from businesses come in? Because everyone knows what's logically the right thing to do. And a lot of the times it's because whether that be getting the wrong investors, whether that be like insecurities or like lack of self-awareness or a little bit of delusion.

48:29but sometimes people actually just like mess themselves up by going for things that just don't make any sense but oh yeah there's a person who worked at a very large i won't name it but one of the big six tech companies and they said they worked there for about i can't remember like 28 years they said the first third of our time we were focused on the customers the second third of our time decisions were made to benefit the company not the customers the third third of our my time, the decisions were taken to benefit whoever was making the decision. And Eric Raich, I think, talked about this thing.

49:06That's the culture we want to build. That's our cultural blueprint, actually. And so you get defensive decision-making. You get all these unbelievable distortions in large. But the other one is that a very, very good complexity expert, Dave Snowden, said to me that in large companies, there are only two modes of thinking, which is, cost-cutting and regulatory paranoia. So it's basically people who are frightened of lawyers and people who are frightened of accountants. There's a great place in engineering, which is, I love this one, which is engineers often say, a company run by engineers will never make any money, but a company run by finance will never make anything at all.

49:46And one of the things that Eric talks about in this new book, which is called Incorruptible, is effectively that there's this thing, financial gravity, which affects large companies, and its short-term financial preoccupations basically dwarf everything else. And I think that's one of the things that happens when people are big is what you might call the, in algorithm design, the explore-exploit thing gets miscalibrated. So everybody becomes focused on exploiting what they can in the short term. and effectively, you know, the whole business. So there's a wonderful finding which they asked a load of managers, would you cancel a really worthwhile and known-to-be-profitable program in order to meet a quarterly forecast?

50:31Like 78 % of them said yes, which is kind of terrifying. That's why they always say that the best way to run a country or a company is like a benevolent dictatorship, right? Because it's like you have a positive vision for the long term. You want to see it out. And what happens is that one person comes and they undo what the other person did, and they undo what the other person did, and there's too much stuff going around here. And at the end of the day, the customer pays for that bureaucracy, right? We always say to people that what you're paying when you're working with us is for the work to be done, not for our office in, like, Fifth Avenue or something, right?

51:06You're paying for, like, the stuff to actually be done, and the goal is to strip out all that bureaucracy tax, right? and that just like misalignment tax. And you're making sure that you're keeping like what's most important, like what's most important, which I think is super cool. And what's the size of your team at the moment? I think what you're talking about there is for us as well, like the, it's a feature, not a bug, of needing to break things. So we're building the company for what it needs to do today, which is developing the speedster, building the things that we have. And it is intentional that once we reach that point, we will break the company apart and we will rebuild it again for its next stage.

51:43It's brilliant. And we've got that planned at least three times in our history that we can forecast at the moment. And you need to do that because otherwise, we've experienced it with other laws. Legacy, accretion, all that kind of stuff. And legacy people as well. Yeah. Legacy thought. I think you talked about coming back from Tesla early to somewhere in its midsection. You need that April clean out of people sometimes because some of us are really good at the early stage and are chaotic and run around and get things done. and then others aren't very good at their later stage where it's that managing up and doing the right thing for what looks good for the company rather than getting shit done.

52:19Read this book by Eric, by the way, because one of the things he might suggest is that you keep the founder on in a senior role, for example, as effectively sort of cultural policeman. Because one of the things that can happen is one of the great advantages of founder-run or founder-led businesses is that the culture is automatically aligned. And quite often, the person is very good at communicating or just has a very, very clear vision. Does that work at a VC level? Tough question. The guy who wrote a book was a VC. So, I mean, I think he's seen what goes wrong when that happens. It's part of the reason doing it together, right?

52:57And the N.E.R. co-founder, a third co-founder. But, you know, we talk about benevolent dictatorship, but we're more like consuls of Rome. Yeah. So we often have very forthright conversations, but they're short and sharp and they're always respectful. And we get to the decision, they're mostly respectful. And then we get to a decision point and we move forward and we're aligned. But also we have that ability to just decide. And we still own the majority of control in the company and we'll seed equity and shares, but we don't really want to seed control. There is no one else who's launched seven, six automotive brands across three countries, three continents, three continents.

53:37And Yeni launched one as well. So between us, we know exactly what we're doing. Get out of our way. That's actually the most important thing. And then having advisors in, holding us true and accountable to it, right? Again, that's where you need to, it's a Roman adjunct, that's where you need to send it to keep a level of control over you or people who are giving you advice. because we do know we've got a really good starting point, but no one's built a featherweight electric sports car company in the UK in 2026. There's no blueprint for it, you know. But we've tried. We've kind of codified it.

54:10So you mentioned already our principles. We have 26 or 27 or so now of all the lessons that we have learned through other businesses and go, look, we have to answer those questions. Do not do this. Yeah. It's exactly that. So we have to catch ourselves sometimes in making a decision, go, hang on, what about principle number 13? This isn't aligned. So that has been super useful, and it's public as well. Anyone can go online and see our principles, and they're added to, not on a daily basis. We just added another one, didn't we? Yeah. Yeah. They're added on an experience basis every now and again, good or bad.

54:44But the funny thing there is, like, we talk about the concept of self-awareness, and Ben Francis at Gymshark, when people ask him, what's his fundamental skill? And I say, he's radically self-aware, that he knows on the pitch, what position do I have to play at this given time, right? And I think that it starts with that, but then also the willingness to learn and be wrong and the willingness to have a council of people where you trust each other and also knowing that they don't know everything, right? I think that so many people, especially when you have like a solo founder, it's really difficult because you're in a lonely echo chamber.

55:18When you have like a variety of different people you can bounce around from that you respect their opinions things actually happen a lot quicker right like it's like actually we want to do this why is it not going to work why is it going to and no one's going to take the ball home and then we make a decision it's a unified decision that works so much faster and so much better and if you can have the advisors that have actually and i always say that it's important when you get advisors to get people that actually done like built a business before because it's different when you're making decisions when you can it feels differently theoretically on a spreadsheet when you're living it.

55:49How does it feel actually building a company of your own? How does that feeling feel like for you guys? It would be great to know. And one I'd say that is radical candor, right? So Principles by Ray Dalio and how they've constructed Bridgewater. We always talk about it. And again, sunlight's the best disinfectant. But if we can't be radically, if we can't have radical candor as a business with each other and expect that everyone around us and it's the heart, like everyone, we've met so many people, Yeah, I like radical candor. Like, do you? Do you really? Sure you do. Sure you do. And we operate that way.

56:24And then the problem with radical candor is if it comes from the wrong place sometimes. So if there's vanity or if there's your own insecurities or if there's something else, your own agenda driving it, then you get to destructive radical candor. And the other is if it doesn't come from a point of compassion, of wanting the other person to become better. Kindness or the niceness, right? Exactly. And that's where if we ever have these terse discussions is because we're emotionally charged or we're tired or there's a lot going on and we can't. Which is 24 hours a day. But, you know, it's like a marriage, right?

57:00With a co-founder, you learn how to communicate better, but it has to come from the right point. And it has to come from a point of transparency. Because sometimes not telling someone the truth is not being kind. It's not being good for them. Because you're too, maybe, cowardly. You don't want to say that because it's a hard discussion. You want to avoid it. And it's important, right? Yeah. And speaking to the founder of Snapchat, and I always talk about the fact that it's important to be kind, not nice, right? Because kindness is honesty. You're actually looking out for the good of the person.

57:35And being able to have a culture where we're saying we're all here to be kind to each other, but niceness is not going to get us to the finishing line it's probably like a better way to approach it but then there's obviously the good side of being like in business and growing this thing and doing this uh amazing journey that you're on now there's a quote from elon that says that he describes running a business as chewing glass while staring into the abyss right like what has been the tough moments of your journey i can see that this is there right What's been the toughest thing about the journey thus far?

58:11Imagine if that's what it's like for Elon. Imagine what it's like for the people working with him. The whole thing of, you know, he was sleeping on the factory floor. Whilst he was sleeping on the factory floor, we were still working. Working on the factory floor. Just follow that principle of take the single biggest problem, the sort of bottleneck approach, where you go and see people, you say, what is your biggest problem? what can I do to solve it? That's broadly speaking true. Publicly, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've experienced it directly as well. Because he only gets, of course, a very short amount of time with any one of his numerous businesses and any one country that he's in.

58:50Of course. But yeah, he'll go in there and straight away, he'll listen as well. That is one thing. Another principle to take is to actually listen to a person at a skip level, usually. The person that's actually doing the job, they're the ones you need to be listening to rather than their manager, because that filter of information. Got it. Got it. Principle weighted for meritocracy and believability. So for us, if you're in a room and you're talking about a body panel and the person in front of you, a body panel expert for 30 years, listen to what they say. Yes. And so if there's three opinions in there, they're not equally weighted.

59:25No. That person probably has a 95 % rating. But the problem is people go with an ego and they're like, I know everything. Or I'm the best. Or I'm the smartest person in the room. Or I process information better than anyone else. You may do, but they've done it for 30 years. So can you catch up 30 years of experience in a five-minute meeting? So that weighted for believability and meritocracy is a principle we've learned as something that wasn't necessarily always done at Tesla and other places, right? That's an important layer. So what can we expect from Longbow Motors from 2026 and beyond? I'm trying to think what we've got planned.

1:00:04Delivering cars, right? That's the priority. Go for a nap, I think. The next one is Tuesdays are open-top roadster. Then there's effectively a roadster with a roof. Yeah. Then we do a coupe, and then we move on to a hatch, and we'll do a safari version of the roadster as well. Guys, remember me. Safari version. Remember me. I'll be calling you. Like a Porsche safari. So like a 964. Yeah. But super focused on delivering speeds to the end of this year and then roadster into next year. Yeah. Well, this is phenomenal, guys. I need to get one. I'll reach out to you guys to try. Just you haven't got electric yet.

1:00:40I don't have a car yet. You haven't got a car? I'm a pedestrian. I used to have a car. I'm a pedestrian, man. The two-wheel crusader. My two feet. Get one of these and a microlino. I've always thought that actually, you know, I learned from Nassim Taleb that you optimize for variance, not for average. and I've always thought, you know, in other words, have a car that is utterly fantastic to drive and a car that's totally practical for short distances. And, you know, you've got it made. You know, go for the two extremes. But I think what you're doing is absolutely magnificent. It's been great to have you guys on.

1:01:17It's been fantastic. Thanks, Tim. Amazing. Thanks, Tim.

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