Robbie Lyle with Elfried Samba on AFTV, Global Fan Network, and building a sports media empire

34:20And then I've always just been like, I want to build a team that they've got that ethos right from the beginning. Our thing is about we can execute stuff quickly, but with quality, right? So you've got to know that from day one, right? And, you know, you get, say, for instance, production guys coming from a different background sometimes where they've had time, a lot of time to film something, sit down, think about editing it, you know. So we have to educate those sort of people that, you know, say, yeah, well, hey, you're going to get some of that when we're doing evergreen content, you're going to get some of that.

35:02But a lot of what you do, the majority of what you do is going to involve quick execution. So let's say, for instance, when we're doing a lot of our studio stuff, we've set it up so that we can film and edit in real time. So that if we want to get it out straight away, we can. If we say no, actually that show doesn't need to be out, you know, then you can spend a bit of extra time on it. But speed with quality is required 100%. And that ethos is like right across the whole company. Like, you know, we require that. It's not going to work out if you're going to want a week to work on everything at our GFN.

35:49It's not going to work out. You know what I mean? So that's our ethos. And obviously, talent, people often say that is the hardest bit about running a business. And if you think about a football team, they're in the talent business. Whoever picks the best talent and can put the right people together under the right system wins, right? Especially if you do it consistently. So really, getting the talent right is a sport. But here, you have to make sure that you get the talent right off camera, but also the talent right on camera. Is it the same process? Do you hire people based on the same things?

36:28Do you pick talent based on the same things? What are the things that are the same across the board? or what are the things that are different when you're picking talent on camera versus off camera? I think the talent thing, again, is a bit like how we do it. It's a bit like, again, the football analogy, like, you know, you spot talent. So we haven't got, you know, we've not had the big money that the traditional broadcasters have got to go and, you know, get all these big talents in. So we've had to develop a lot of that. We're a bit like a Brighton. Yeah. You know, we will develop our talent or we will spot people out there that we're like, hey, you know what?

37:10He's got potential, man. And if we think, if we bring him on to a bigger stage, get him doing collaborations with bigger guys, we think that that person has the potential to be really big. So we, most of our talent, that's how we bring them through. It's a bit like, it's almost like in the academy phase. So we have academy players that we're like, yo. Heyland. Yeah, it's at Hayland. You know what I mean? They've got the talent. And we know that if we start putting them in the first team, start dropping them in and out, they're going to get better and better and better. They're going to get more exposure.

37:41And we just continually have talent coming through like that. And there's a lot of talent out there. There's a lot of talent out there. Because you think about, you know, the media business. If you want to get a... Say your ambition is to be on ITV, BBC, Sky, whatever. you know um there's only a limited amount of places for that and i always say to um because i've i've had some people come to work for me who said to me because always awesome what what do you ultimately want to do what's your ambition and there'll be some saying some have said to me you know what i'd love to be a presenter on sky or i'd love to be here so i'm like fair enough i'm not gonna i'm not gonna stand in their way i'm gonna say actually this is a good pathway to it Because the first thing someone on Sky and all that's going to ask you, or they're going to want to see what you've done.

38:35It's not like back in the day where you put your CV in, or you sent a showreel. Your best showreel is when they're actually seeing you appearing on things and doing well. So this is a good avenue for you. And, you know, I was at an event yesterday, and there was a girl sat next, she was two people away from me on the table, And she goes, Robbie, how you doing, man? I haven't seen you for ages. And I looked and I was like, oh. And it was a girl who used to work for us. She now works for Premier League TV. Wow. She started with us. There was another female presenter who started off on AFTV. She's like Anita.

39:16She's one of the top presenters on CBS now. So if you want to go that pathway, you can. But also it is the pathway on social media, which is just as big. if not bigger nowadays, you know? So there's a lot of talent out there. There's loads of, you know, and if they're willing to put the work in and if they've got the talent, we'll give them a chance. We'll give them a go, you know? And so spotting talent is not, and bringing talent through has not been that difficult really, because there's some good people out there, you know, very talented people out there who know their football, who are good presenters, you know, we've spotted loads of them over the years.

40:01Yeah, and the thing with talent is, so there's this statement that a lot of people in business say, which is the talent that got here will not always be the talent that get you where you need to get to. Yeah. I think that sometimes it can have different roles. So I think that the roles that they play is different, but often than not from what they were doing at the start, whether that be on camera or off camera, sometimes, especially if you're growing at the velocity that you are, going from like one person and maybe not having as much options of who you can work with. And as you're getting bigger, you now have the options to get the right person to fix the right thing.

40:37Like, how did you manage that over time? Like, how did you make sure that the product and the brand continued moving forward, right? Even though there's so many changes happening across the business? Yeah, well, listen, it's a lot of trial and error at first, because, you know, at first, I'd be like, I mean, we built that person up and now they're gone. Oh, Jesus.

41:02So, but then after a while, you start to learn. Actually, as I said, there's some of this talent out there. Let's just, I said, it's a bit like an academy. We are like, Brighton. And Chelsea keep coming in. Brighton, every time someone leaves Brighton, someone else comes in. Kaisado leaves, they've got this kid by Labour. You know what I mean? They always seem to have someone that will come in. And actually, then I started to realize, well, people want to. We're actually a good proposition for people. A lot of people aspire to work for the company. Not just in presenting, but in production, in social media team.

41:46I found over the years that it's a very good thing to have on your CV. if you're a social media person and you worked for AFTV, people are going to be interested in you. And you work for DR, you work for GFN Network, people are like, yeah, well, he knows his stuff, you know, because they see what we've done over the years. So, you know, and I also like, it's like treat your staff right, treat them well. I'm a real big believer in giving them their own head, giving them their, you know what I mean? you've got to let, I've learned to let go. Because remember, I went from, it went from like two people.

42:27And over the years, you've like, you know, as you said, we're sort of the founders in a way of this, how we do this, right? So I went through a little period where it's like, oh, listen, don't tell me. You know that we're talking about films. Also, Scarface, I built this film. I built this thing, right? And then I said, no, actually, no, no. I've got to start letting go, man, and giving these guys, actually, they actually, I've got a lot to learn from them. They're bringing new ideas. They're bringing fresh ideas. I can give them my guidance on things. Mix it with, we're going to do good out of this.

43:16I mean, this is good. I love when I've got presenters production staff that can work off their own initiative that have ideas I'm open to any idea, I always say to all of them any idea, any new things you guys want to try, let's talk about it and sometimes just give it a try and if it don't work shelve it if it works, let's keep doing it so they all know that, they all know what I'm like with that um so I think that just helps us to grow and grow and it just helps people to grow as well they feel like you know um they can own certain things you know I mean I think I've got a really good team because they know that I'm not going to be that guy micromanaging every last thing and what's this and what yeah I mean occasionally I'll be like yeah what's going Bro, what's that?

44:13You know what I mean? But, you know, but I like to give, and I learned to let go, because as I said, at first, there's only a couple of people. So at first, I'm thinking, well, what if I'm not doing the, like the fan camps? People are going to think, yo. But then after a while, I was like, no, you know, in order to grow, I'm going to have to free up some of my time to do, to help out or to do other things or to come up with ideas for other things. So I need to start bringing new, new people through. And I remember when I brought through the sort of first set of presenters on AFTV, I said to them, I go, listen, for the first six months, you guys are going to get a lot of blowback.

44:58You know what I mean? In the comments, there's going to be people saying, cussing you, you're no good. Who are you? What's your foot? You know what I mean? Where's Robbie? But I go, you're going to get that. But I go, don't worry about that. As long as I'm happy, the person needs to please me. As long as I'm not saying those things, then you're cool. Because I go, it will change. Once you've been doing it for a while, people are going to, you'll start to see that change and say, actually, I prefer this guy, Robbie. He's good, man. I mean, so, you know, giving people there, you know, has been very, very important in the growth of everything that I do.

45:38Letting go of a lot of things. Because when you, I think when you first sort of start a business and it's sort of you and it's a small team, you're doing everything, isn't it? Like, you know, I was doing filming. I learned how to do editing. So I was doing editing. I was doing social media. I was doing everything, right? So I know how to do all the... Every job around it, I know how to do. But I'm not an expert. What I do think I'm very good at, I feel I'm very good at presenting. Right? But all the other things, I think I did them only because I had to. Yeah. Right? So now I want to bring in the guys that...

46:13They're the experts at it. Because if the experts come in, it's going to take it to another level. You're an expert at what you're doing, which is presenting ideas and stuff like that. I know that. I'll talk to you that your ideas... the guys behind this, they're the experts now filming, editing. You know, they know that. So at first, you might have to do all this yourself, set it at one man band and thing. But if you're going to go to the next level, you need these guys. It was Will. Will's the first guy that decided to do videos with me. And so I was just listening to a podcast with the founder of Doordash, right?

46:50They are a$65 billion company. They're basically, here we have Deliveroo, you have Uber Eats. I think Deliveroo just got bought by DoorDash a couple of years ago. And basically, he's had competitors basically quit because they're like, we can't go up against them because the person that did it was first the delivery drivers. Him and his founders were the delivery drivers because they understood that the data that they had to deal with can't be scraped online because the thing that can delay an order, there's so many different stuff, right? So you have to actually get into the weeds and understand all the different realities of what happens when it comes to building the business.

47:28And they may have not been the best drivers or the best people at the restaurants, but you have to be able to understand what's going on so you can have an opinion and be a tastemaker for what good is. And I always find it really interesting when you have non-foundland businesses. There's different ways to do things. But if the person that's the leader doesn't actually know what goes into doing the thing, then how do they make a decision on what the thing needs to be? So I think it's actually an advantage to have to go through, I like to call, three or four years of practical university, right?

48:01Of learning how your business actually operates before you can actually lead your business. It's actually been Francis, the Gymshark, stepped down from the leader of the business, worked within the different key functions, and then came back up as the CEO because he skipped that part in the first couple of years of the business. So I think that it's always fundamental to be able to do that. Now, you talk about the fact that AFTV has probably now become like the Cambridge of the sports media world. It's like people know that when you go there, you get a Robbie stamp onto it. That's good quality.

48:33And that's probably why they get a lot of opportunities. And the interesting thing when we named our company Butterfly Effect is we said that the longer you stay in, the bigger the relationships you'll grow, the more talent you'll grow. And as they start to go away, they'll take you with you, right? And you initially started off as a disruptor of the space, right? Now that you have more and more of your talent or people that grew up watching AFTV, going into the media space, how's the relationship been with traditional media? Like, how has that been? It's changed a lot. And I think it's because of what you just said there.

49:11You know, I meet so many people that say, yeah, we grew up watching your content. You know, first of all, it makes me feel very old. Yeah. And they are now working, you know, like I was with a guy yesterday at the same dinner and he said, yeah, I grew up watching your content, loved your content. He works now for the Radio Times. I was saying, the Radio Times, I was going, I remember, But Radio Times as a kid, man, like magazine, I go, what's it like? He goes, no, it's completely different now. And he's sort of telling me some of the things they do. So I do think, yes, we've had an effect on a lot of those industries and a lot of those traditional broadcasters.

49:51And hence, the relationship has changed. Like, at first, I don't think a lot of them liked us. I know a lot of them didn't like us, right? But now we're talking with them about collaborating and the relationship has really changed. We see them adopting a lot of the things that we do. And I think a lot of that change has come through, like you said, those people that have grown up watching us and watching other sort of content creators and businesses like us. and are now taking that into these industries, traditional industries and saying, well, look what this one does and this one. If you want to change, you need to adopt these things.

50:40I know that is definite because even happens in our business where I'll have guys say, Robbie, have you seen this on social media? Have you seen this trend? Have you seen this way of doing, how this guy's done this show? Um, and you learn from that and you say, oh, well, how can we adopt that and add our, you know? I mean, we first started going to different countries and doing content. I took a lot of my learnings off of watching these guys who do these travel videos, right? Because I see these guys doing these travel videos and I'm like, wow, that's really good. because what they're doing, they're showing you the country and they're showing it a real natural way.

51:29You know, rather than the old school travel things that they used to do, these guys are just showing even just ordinary things and making you think, yeah, actually, you know, I didn't even know it was like that. So I adopted that into when we started to go and do games abroad. So instead of just going and doing the game, we'd show the city, we'd show the ordinary people, we showed of you know spots that we went to to have something to eat ahead of the game and and people found that so so compelling and interesting so yeah you you are right i think um that has led to a real change in you know how you see a lot of the traditional guys doing their content now they've really it's a lot different they've really some of them have realized very late but they're realizing that you know the content is different now the way people consume content is like night and day compared to how they even just 10 years ago used to do it like 20 years ago yeah yeah the only industry in sports that i've seen that has a forward well there's two um wwe has a very forward thinking mindset and also the ufc had a very forward thinking mindset, like embracing YouTube and basic creators, embracing social.

52:50And you see that in the DNA of the business, because Dana White, Vince McMahon, like people like that, that are, that there's like a person that is driving progress and being willing to unlearn what got you here to really learn what's going to get you to the next space. And I think a lot of the time when people talk about innovation, really what innovation is, is the combining of reference points, right? So you've seen something that's worked somewhere else that is not in the space that you're in. And you're like, how do we apply that to the space before anybody else does it? Which is why I'm guessing, whilst a lot of people might say, well, if the media shun you for what you were doing to sports at the time and now they're embracing it, why are you so calm about it and welcoming about it?

53:38Because you're probably on to the next thing. Yeah, kind of. Like, for me, I am that person. So I'm always constantly looking at what's the next thing, what can help us. I mean, I'm very excited at the moment about AI. You know, because I think that's leveling the playing field again for a company like mine to the real, real big boys. I mean, some of the things that can, you know, help you with data, collection of data and understanding your audience. So, you know, a lot of people just look at AI and think, oh, yeah, well, I can get a video to make it look like I'm in, I don't know, the Emirates and I'm playing football.

54:21Yeah, there's all that stuff. But if you actually look deeper into what some of the things it can do for you and the way it can help you in creating, it's phenomenal. I think it's going to be a real game changer again, you know. and it's funny because we had a little family thing at the weekend and my brother's girlfriend, she was talking about, oh, they say I think scary and I go, I don't think it's scary. I think it's something that's going to be really, really good. You know, she goes, oh, but how many people are going to lose their jobs? And I said, listen, there will be some jobs that go.

55:02I do agree. But it's going to offer a lot of opportunity as well. I've you know and yeah he's a revolution but it's the same sort of revolution like YouTube is a revolution you know and I said to her if YouTube hadn't come about you wouldn't have me I mean you wouldn't have AFTV you wouldn't have none of the things we do you know I mean the mobile phone's a revolution you know recent these are recent revolutions as well these you know recent revolutions a mobile phone look what all you can do on your phone now you could actually film what we're doing here now on your phone yeah right you can go live immediately on your phone with something that years ago as i said you would have had to have trucks turning up here wiring up and that for the whole day before you could go live now you can do that instantly on your phone so this ai one's another big one man which is going to offer a lot of opportunity to companies like us to you know um i'm not sure all the ways we're going to use it but i'm i'm very excited about So it's about constantly learning, embracing new things.

56:10I like to look at what other people are doing. How can we use that, what they're doing successfully and incorporate that into what we're doing? Some things will work, other things won't. But I'm not scared of a change. you know um i'm not i'm not scared of um i'm not scared of change at all and i i just think like there's some exciting times i don't know exactly what it's gonna um do but even in just some of the things that i've been looking into and learning in recent times i'm like this could be a game changer i was doing i was doing a um talk over in abu dhabi um a few months ago and there was a guy on stage and he was talking about, he was doing a talk on AI and that's what really blew my mind when he was talking.

57:09And actually, when he came off stage, he was talking to me because we was talking on the same thing. I'd spoken after, I was speaking after him and we were talking and he turned out he was a big arsehole fan. So, you know, and I said to him, I go, can you come down to my studio and give a talk to my staff? Because I go, some of the things you're saying are, And he came in and I just got so inspired after listening to him. And yeah, I think that could be good. I like to learn, man. I like to learn. Listen, I'm not this person that's going to... I don't sit there and try and show off like, like I said, I built this thing.

57:49I got the... You know what I mean? Brick by brick. Listen, last week I was at that event, that Adweek event, when you were speaking. Yeah. and you you don't know how much you inspired me that day right and remember I'm a guy that's got a big company in social media who's got millions of followers right across the whole of what we do millions like you said billions of views and I'm listening to you talk and you're talking about LinkedIn and posting videos on LinkedIn and how you've built your platform and I'm like oh I didn't know that. When you was talking about the value of a person on LinkedIn, a viewer on LinkedIn as compared to other platforms, I'm like, I never thought of that.

58:42And then I left from your talk and I was like, went back to my staff. I said, yo, guys, we got to start posting things on LinkedIn, man, video. We just do static posts. I listen to this guy, and when he's telling, he's talking about how he, what he's achieved by doing that, I say, yo. And even the event that I did yesterday, so I filmed, I didn't have a camera person with me, but I filmed little bits of it, right? Normally, I just take like some photos and I'll post it on LinkedIn. I've done some videos, I sent it to the social guys yesterday, I said, put some subtitles on that. They sent it back to me this morning, just before I got here.

59:19Mm-hmm. And I'm posting it on LinkedIn today. I'm gonna post it on across um free free of our platforms and I'm gonna see how we start getting on with that I said to the guys I go what we're gonna start doing is I'll have a I'm gonna set some time aside to do some videos where it tells people about what we do in video right and we're gonna film that and I said yeah no problem might even take that long and we're gonna start doing that on a regular basis i'm thinking of hiring someone right to film behind the scenes specifically even though we do film behind the scenes but i'm thinking of hiring someone to film behind the scenes specifically of me and other people in within the business so that we can post on linkedin that's all because of your talk last week so for me i'm a listener man i'm not i'm not this I'm not this guy that I've got all the answers.

1:00:21I'm a listener. If I listen to something and I think, hey, that sounds like, yeah, you know what I mean? I'm a listener and a learner. And I think you've got to continually have to be that person because there are so many people that grow things and think, and they think, yeah, boy, now you gotta listen to me. I'm the expert. You listen to me, bro. Listen to you. You just, who are you? Hey. Who are you, man? Yeah, you've got half a million followers on LinkedIn. So I've got millions across my mind. Shut up, man. No, I'm not that person, man. I'm like, there can be people that smoke, like 10 ,000 followers.

1:01:02I see them sometimes like, hey, have you seen that? That's a great idea, man. How could we incorporate? I'm not copying you, but how can I incorporate what he's doing or she's doing into what we do? I like to learn, man. I like to listen and learn. So that's why I'm excited about things like AI. Because you've been the person with 10 ,000 followers that's bringing something new, right? Yeah, maybe that's it. And like, from listening to what you're saying, the Robbie that we were speaking about when we're talking about the early days of AFTV and DR Sports is exactly the same now. It's, I don't have the answer, but I know that it's going this way.

1:01:46let's figure out, let's execute, and let's get the feedback. That seems to be the trigger. And you talk about the fact that not only are you on the stage, you actually spend the time being in the audience and listening. And then you go to the person, you speak to them, and you want to learn directly from the source. And then not only, the Adweek event was last week, right? So that was last week. So already you've gone from new information coming in, team, we need to do something about this. We actually planned this a week ago, right? We're speaking about this now, and you already have a plan ready to go.

1:02:23And you talked there about like listening and learning, but there's also execute, right? And I think that a lot of people watch podcast after podcast, read book after book. They know everything about everything, but they never do anything with that information because they're too scared to fail. And that's the last one, which is the ability to not be controlled by your fears. Right? Saying, so what? Like, if I fail, so what? At least I'm going to learn something. At least I'm going to try something. At least I'm going to be a lot better after the thing than I was before it. Right? I think a lot of people just get like held back by that.

1:03:03Yeah. I always like, I give a lot of, um, get asked to give a lot of talks at, schools, colleges. I've done like Cambridge, Oxford, all those, like it's been brilliant. But by the way, for a fan with a borrowed mic and a borrowed camera, that before that point couldn't even hold the camera to have talks at Cambridge and Oxford. It's crazy. It's crazy. When I was signing that book, you know, like when you go there, you gotta sign the book. I was like, I wish my mom was still alive to see this, man. Oh man. When she was cussing me for not going to uni. Mum, I'm at Cambridge now, right? And I'm signing the book.

1:03:45Are you Dr Robbie yet? Anybody give an honorary? I'm at Cambridge. I've got an award from Trinity University in Dublin last year. That was a nice award. It's gold. I forgot the name of it. And they had the sword. I was going, yeah, Mum. I'm at uni. I'm going to give you the sword.

1:04:14We're waiting for the knighthood. Yeah. Well, I know about that one, right? But I always talk about fear. Yeah. And trying to remove fear, because that is the biggest killer of ideas, of dreams, of potential, because we're scared. We're scared of change. We're scared of, we listen to people. So like, as I was saying to my brother's girlfriend, she's scared of AI. Why? I actually gave her a book that I read on it, right? And she was just skimming through some of the things. She said, oh, actually, I said to her, go, listen, we're always scared. That's our problem, no, we're scared. When we went from the horse and cart to car, there'd be people scared.

1:05:11How good's cars been for us? You know? Probably when the internet came around, remember, oh, it's good. It's the end of the world. I remember... Y2K. Yeah. Yeah. Year 2000, that's it. Yeah, one minute past that, everyone's like, oh, we're still here. All them people that... These people now just make a living out of fear. Right? We're living in a time where everyone's scared. Everyone's like, have you heard about this? Have you heard about that? Who told you? Like, I remember I was going to Russia for the World Cup. Right? So the World Cup was coming from Russia. I go, yep, we're going. I remember some of my friends, yo, Robbie, man, have you heard about...

1:05:55You mad? Russia! I see a video, yeah, where this man, they walk out into a field. they're all about football now and they just take the tops off and they're battering each other you're going Russia right I said yeah when I went there I never seen none of that right and furthermore right and they laid it on thick you know and I saw another video where this happened and another video and boy everyone in Russia is racist you know Robbie and everything right they're saying right and then I was the guy is telling it to me I said, yeah, you been to Russia? No, I haven't been, but I heard. So you haven't been.

1:06:40So who told you? I haven't been, but I heard. Yeah. Well, I saw it on a video. Who done that video? Well, I didn't even know you know. So I go, so I must now not go to Russia based off of you. You've never been to Russia. And that's what I say, fear, man. Even if you're going to listen to people, go to the people. Let me go to someone who's been in Russia. What was it like? I actually went there. Avoid that area, but the rest of it. You know, it's like people come up to me, like sometimes they've asked me about Jamaica. Boy, Robbie, man, I know Jamaica. Hey, it is rough, man. Gone shot, liquor, there, there.

1:07:20I say, yeah, I've been to Jamaica. How many times have I been to Jamaica? A million times, right? Great place. Avoid there. Don't really go down there. then places can be a bit, you know if you go here, here, trust me you have the time of your life listen to the people, like speak to do your research but we're living in this time like even sometimes I have to get that into my kids head as well, try and live without fear, I read this book on fearlessness such a good book, right where basically it breaks down things and that book was that book was a real game changer for me as well even though i even though i'm person don't have a lot of fear i'll go for things right but when i read that book i'm like wow factfulness sorry it's called factfulness not fear not factfulness this book is called it's about facts so we as human beings we typically turn around and say in our day you know we always use that it's much better in our day man but actually when you look at things most things weren't better in our day it's improved literally everything's improved from our day we're nostalgic about our day we think our day was better you know in our day man the kids were youngsters you see I see all these kids out there at the moment this making this amount of trouble this kicking off here kicking off there it was much better in our day, man.

1:08:53Actually, it weren't. When you then look at the crime figures, crime's down, there's less crime now, but it's just that we think that in our head. Those are not the facts. You know, I think in the book there's one part in it where it says about, you know, the amount of people who used to die from diseases and that. How that's dropped by like 80 % over the last, say, 50, 60 years. 80%. So a lot of things, especially in this sort of social media age, which, you know, listen, I'm part of that, right? But people don't, people are quick to just jump on things without facts. And that leads to more fear as well.

1:09:38And then people are constantly telling you, oh, you can't do this, you can't do that. And half of these people don't even, you know, if I want to know how to, if I want to know about LinkedIn, and think, I'll come and ask you. Because you're going to know. If someone wants to know about building a platform in football social media, come and ask me. You know? I'm not going to come and ask you how to be a doctor. My dad, maybe. I don't know if you were a doctor. My dad, maybe. Maybe your dad. All right, so I'll go and ask your dad. I'll ask your dad. Go to the source. Yeah, I'll ask your dad. Yeah.

1:10:10Because I might go and ask one of my friends and say, yeah, you know, I'm thinking of becoming a doctor. Hey, doctor, you heard about that, bro? 15 years in university, when you come out, you're broke. Boy, nothing's... And I'll be like, boy, after listening to him, and then I spoke to another guy, boy, maybe I should have, yeah, leave the doctor thing, man, that sounds mad. Like, but if I go and ask your dad now, he'll be like, well, the first such and such years is this, he'll give me the proper pathway. And he goes, well, yeah, you might have to go. But when you get to the end of it, my thinking line is completely different.

1:10:46So do your research and don't move it fair and everything. I wouldn't have done this if I was, the amount of people who tried to discourage me even from this. When I was even asking the same, some family members, I'm going, yeah, I'm thinking to start it up this football. They go, what? Football, Robbie, man, what do you know about football? Listen, even my own family. Resilience. Robbie, do your job. You've got a good job. You're doing, as a surveyor, right? What football? What do you know about football? So you have to You have to get rid of the fear Have to It's a huge huge part of Any business person out there People will even try and talk down Business people They'll be like yeah but that guy He got a handout from his Family How do you know?

1:11:37Do you know the family? Do you know Honestly we've got to That is the one first thing you need to remove if you're going to do something successful. Fear. And then just use first principles, which is go to the source, ask for the facts, and understand exactly what is going on. And don't make decisions or build up fear because somebody else that hasn't done the thing is feeding their fears onto you. Right? And fear is contagious. And I guess... Very damaging fear. 100 especially now if we look at your side not only is there like resistance from family as we've now heard there's from like football fans there's media so the ability to handle uh uh um restraint because i always because i always talk about the fact that um that the people that go to the gym and take the most resistance build the biggest muscles right and if you're able to handle that from all areas.

1:12:37Now that the company's been validated, the people that said that your idea wasn't working and are copying your idea, now that family has seen that happen, you're probably so used to getting pushback that you keep pushing to areas that will give you that pushback. I actually enjoy it now. Well, not enjoy it, but - You look for it. When that happens now, I actually use that to drive me onto the other thing. I'll be like, yeah, okay, watch. So what are these things in the future that people are like, just like how you, when you said you're going to go into football and build this, what's the future of where you're going?

1:13:13The people are like, are you having, is there anything that you have that you're planning? Yeah, you know, I mean, I said to somebody the other day that, you know, I see, you know, I want to be, you know, I consider my company to be a major broadcaster and I want it to become a major. And they were like kind of laughing and saying, well, yeah, really. There it is again. It's a major broadcaster, you know what I mean? You're on YouTube. I go, well, YouTube is actually the biggest platform now. Isn't the World Cup gonna be on YouTube? There's lots of things on YouTube. BBC have just gone onto YouTube, you know what I mean?

1:13:46So I go, bro, you know, and I said, and then, you know, TikTok is a huge platform. We're big on there. And this platform, he's going, yeah, but that's not... And then straight away, I'm like, I'm not even listening to this, bro. I mean, this girl doesn't even know what he's talking about. You know what I mean? But that, again, is like, in my mind, I'm thinking, I'll show this guy. He don't understand really what he's talking about, but I'm going to show him. He's going to see. Through these platforms, we are going to become a major broadcaster worldwide. We already are, but I mean, more structured, more like, but maintaining all the things we do.

1:14:30But yeah. And then I have like, I'll be honest with you. There's some things that I don't tell people. So in my mind, I'm like, this is what I want my company to turn over. This is what I want to achieve. This is what I, and there's a lot of things I just keep to myself because if you tell, sometimes you tell people as well, they're just like, some people will laugh. some people would say you're being over ambitious um i like to be over ambitious i like to aim high um so but sometimes you're better off not saying nothing you're better off just like saying right that's between me me and god you know i mean that's why i'm aiming for this that's where so you're achieving things along the way and it's great but the journey is to get to there and you can't always tell people the full picture because they they don't really see it like how you see it you know so you get we still get you know i've got used to criticism because especially in the early days it was criticism non-stop so yeah now it's doesn't really move i don't really care just gotta get used to it it's part it's part of the territory and And so now, if we had a time machine, and this is my last question, and we're speaking to Robbie, the building surveyor, right?

1:16:01And everything that we've just talked about, including the fact that we're now on the podcast, not speaking about football, but we're now speaking about what you've achieved as a business leader. What would you say to Robbie in the early days with the information and the experience that you have today? Well, I would have tried to say to him to look out for a few, because he's made some mistakes along the way. So if I could have guided him to have not made some, you know, a few costly mistakes, that would have helped. But basically I'd still be saying to him Yeah, you know what I mean Go for it Go for it, man Like, you know Yeah There was no blueprint When we was doing it anyway So But I would have said to him I would have said to You know Avoid There's a few mistakes Don't rush into certain things Like Show a little bit more patience Which you know, there were some things that I found it hard to be patient because I was just like, yeah, we can do this, we can do that.

1:17:16Now I've learned a bit more patience. But I think a lot of it comes with the journey, innit? A lot of it comes with you learn off of some of these mistakes as well. I think there's some mistakes I've made that I had to make, as painful as they were, in order to learn better I did it then than now. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because, you know, so, yeah, I've enjoyed this journey. It's been good. You know what I mean? It's been, sometimes it has been very hard, but, you know, when I look back on it, I'm enjoying the ride, man. This has been incredible. Rory's sat down and listened the whole way through.

1:18:03I like this picture idea, man, trust me. He didn't get a word in. Yeah, there's some people, I don't get one of them expressions. I put that there when we're doing our show. I could slug him off, he can't say nothing back to me. Well, this has been incredible, Robbie. Thank you for being so generous with your time, with your experiences and with your stories. And hopefully we're going to have a big summer. No, thank you. And yeah, hopefully... I don't even want to put my mouth on it. It'd be a massive moment for AFTV if Arsenal win the league. Because obviously we went through some tough, tough times.

1:18:45Even getting Arsene Wenger interviewed on the platform. Wow, that was amazing. Like, you know, that was a real sort of turnaround moment. And, you know, I got to spend a day with him. Well, half a day with him. And that was incredible. him sort of telling me the real stories of what was going on in those times. Um, so if Arsenal could win the league and it would be an amazing, amazing experience. And I, I don't know, it would feel like a, even though I'm not on the pitch, it's going to just feel like an achievement for the channel that we, you know, we can talk about us getting that ultimate win.

1:19:22It'd be fantastic. Do you know what I'm going to do? I don't know where you guys are going to be having your watch pod or whatever. I'm gonna be there. That's why I'm gonna watch it. Yeah, yeah, please. All right. But let's not tempt fate yet. Let's get there. Hey, all right. Okay. All right. Well, thank you, Robbie. No, thank you very much. It's been great and really enjoyed it. In fact, your talk last week, I was truly inspired by that. I really was. And it was a real learning, you know? So, and I'll let you know. I'll let you know in about three months time if it's worked for us. Hey, hey, you might take my title, man.

1:19:55I'm sure it's gonna. I'm going to let you know. I'm going to bring some data to you and tell you about how it's worked for us. Amazing. All right. Thanks. Thanks, everybody.