This is only the beginning for For Skin!

0:00A fish did climb a tree at some point because that's evolution.

0:04Joel Dommett:Did a fish climb a tree? At some point a fish slowly had little... I mean, I'll be honest, I haven't read the book. But at some point... The book of evolution. Doesn't a fish just climb a tree?

0:19Hello everybody and welcome to The Businessmen. This pretty little thing right here is Ben Shephard. and this ugly little mug over here. It's Joel Domit. This is the podcast that's been following our wonderful journey to launching our own skincare brand.

0:39Joel Dommett:We've been speaking to some of the most important and inspirational people in the world of business. Huge. Learning all sorts of crazy dreams and ideas, haven't we, Joel? We really have. It's a nice moment for us, I think, because we launched the podcast as a means to start sharing and charting this journey as we built from an idea to an actual business, which is Foreskin. And I think we've got to the stage with Foreskin that we need to start focusing on that and the brand. So for the time being, this is sort of, we're drawing the businessmen season one to a close, as it were, just having a bit of a break so we can take everything we've learned from these amazing people and power it all into Foreskin.

1:23100 % it takes a long time to sort of make a podcast about a business and so I think it's going to be interesting just to take a bit of that time in order to sort of power our business forward and hopefully take you guys along with us because you know you've come with us from the start and you've not just listened to a podcast you've built a business with us and it's been an amazing journey so uh follow us on instagram for skin official and tech talk for skin official um it's really um it's really exciting to have you along the way so thank you very much for joining us so far and um and yeah it's been great man it's been great and the great first season

2:05Joel Dommett:bits that are coming now are the really exciting tangible bits so we will take you on the journey to the formulation plants so we can see all that getting made we'll take you on the journey to the pitching for investment. We'll take you on the journey to the conversations with retailers. If we go down that route, we'll take you on the journey to TikTok shopping, which we're going to do at some point. There's a lot of hard work still to be done with the team, but we want you to be part of that journey. But what we wanted to do, because we've loved it so much, is just do a little reminisce. Oh, yes.

2:39Joel Dommett:Some of the amazing moments that we've enjoyed over the last few months. and the producers have sort of posed some questions to us to pick our favourite moments each. I think it's going to be really exciting. One moment in the podcast series made you gasp. Wow. Do you remember the first, I think one of the first ones, well, there's been a lot over the course of the interviews that we've done. One of the first and most striking, and I think it's because we know Spencer Matthews in a very different light. We know him for all of his physical challenges, all that crazy madness he does when he's being fit and healthy and looking strong.

3:21Joel Dommett:But when he started talking about his business, Clean Co, and the major business downturn, the amount of money that they burnt in America, it was jaw-dropping, wasn't it? It was unbelievable. And just aside to his whole business that I didn't know, and again one of those people that sort of really gave me the confidence almost to go like oh I think we can do this because he is just a man who just has an abundance of confidence and it's an amazing thing to be around to be honest and to be in a room with um so yeah I think that was one of the most gospel moments we had a tremendous fall from grace like a I can't tell you like it was uh like a nosedive uh because we we went into 40 states um we pumped shit loads of product like six million quids worth of product all over the states uh nuked a bunch of money on on marketing rushed it my fault again and uh and uh just just burnt the money like burnt through the 20 million not many sales not enough uh not enough handholding like in the states this is years before anything like this existed we were the first to market which i thought was a big thing that's actually a bit shit, right?

4:39Because there's no proof of concept. So you've got people saying like, why do I need an alcohol tequila? You know, and it's just like, we haven't done any of the like educational piece. And it was a huge failure. We had to take a massive loss. We had to bring the valuation right back down. We raised loads of money from private equity at like this massive valuation. All of a sudden there was, you know, some pretty serious foxes in the hen house. And, you know, the whole thing was pretty, pretty hard to manage. Also another moment for me was certainly when we spoke to Sarah Davis when she said about the fact that she took on Helix and Helix copied her design.

5:20Her envelope maker.

5:21Joel Dommett:They were so cheeky actually, they rang me. It was Helix. You know who made Patrakowski? So the head of Helix invited me down to their offices to tell them all about my envelope maker under the guise of they could manufacture it en masse for me and distribute it in 62 countries. So I mean, to me, 21 year old, I was so excited. I skipped off down to their offices, told them all about it. They were really interested in my patent. So I told them all about my patent I'd applied for and never heard from them again. And then six months later, here they are launching the Helix envelope phone board. No.

5:53Joel Dommett:And I thought, you little. Sorry. I loved her line from her dad. And I'm going to try and do it in an Othumberland accent, but it won't be but he said we're going to court our little sassies not being ripped off by them helix whoa was that about right? does that make any sense? I really enjoyed that it was just he called her our little sassie our little sassie oh that was better nobody's going to take advantage of her f*** you helix you bastards with your rulers yeah and your compasses and stationery how dare you take advantage of my daughter with your protractors, you absolute bastards. Are we?

6:34Joel Dommett:I'll see you in court. And then the other thing, Will and Jack, they're fellow chefs. And I went to Fallo the other day and my goodness, what an extraordinary place it is that they have created. But the fact that they launched their business maybe five days before COVID. Mad. You know, with all the expectation, the excitement and everything, and then to have everything shut down around them. and how agile they were. Hearing them describe that moment was one of those sort of spine-tingling instances where you just go, what? We were basically in there, as Will said, we were just cleaning, scrubbing walls, deep cleaning all this place, ready to open it.

7:14And all the stuff was on the news about COVID-19. We weren't watching the news. We were just cleaning the kitchen. It's so busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I remember James came into the restaurant. He's like, this is getting pretty serious. This might be something. We were like, yeah, yeah, nice one. you can bring those eggs in from outside like it was just like literally how old are we 28 20 27 28 yeah and then we managed i think we opened for three or four days i think we opened like 14th 15th then we were open for four days and then james came back in was like no this is like this is actually happening and we were like then we then then we kind of then everything shut down which was like 20th or so and then i remember just then it hit us we were like oh so this is really happening yeah and that made them a successful business because they went through

7:57Joel Dommett:that okay what about guests and advice that they've given us that we still talk about when we get off air uh i really loved trini's advice i've i find fascinating generally i think she gave us a load of advice that she that was fantastic including the sort of again the confidence she's she was one of the first people to say this is a really good idea you should guys should go for it it's great and uh she also said don't look over the fence which i think is a fantastic piece of advice just saying like don't you know be aware of your competitors but be confident in what you're doing i don't look over the fence and i tell my team to not look over the fence because i think that people can be distracted by what other people are doing and you can look at best practice like sometimes i'll look at navigation on a website and think that's a great navigation those are really good things but if you obsess and you don't stay in your lane you get distracted and you dilute what you're doing and if you believe in the products you want to make don't get distracted you know really focus on what you know you want to create and i find that a best practice for me more recently as well suzy ma who's created uh tropic skincare yeah and how she's done that and She had this amazing phrase, Joel, and actually it was something Simon Woodruff made a reference to as well, the guy who created Yo Sushi.

9:19Joel Dommett:And it was something that someone else said to her. She had a couple of really lovely phrases, which I think are really important. Hire slow and fire fast. So many of the really successful business people have talked about personnel and hiring personnel is such an important part of the business. you have to get it right and trusting your gut because if you make a mistake it takes a long time to unwind that mistake and lots of them have said they've been too keen to give people another chance but actually they shouldn't have they should have trusted their gut i always go back to this um there's a lady called thea green who is the founder of nails inc and she gave me a piece of advice in my early days and she said my biggest thing in business is that i hire slow and fire fast.

10:06Joel Dommett:If you know someone's not right in your gut, you can give them a thousand chances. They're not going to be right. Not to mean that they're not good, but it could just be a cultural fit. They might not be right for your business. You can't teach a fish to climb a tree. It might not be what's right for them either. But when it comes to hiring, you've got to take your time. Good people are worth waiting for and worth the extra interview time. A fish did climb a tree at some point because that's that's evolution did a fish climb a tree at some point a fish slowly had little hat and then i mean i'll be honest i haven't read the book but at some point of evolution doesn't a fish just climb are you disagreeing with susie mark no i think that's great i think it's great and i think it's great advice and also advice that i am really bad at so i'm like and this is why it's been wonderful for us and to put together this team which again you guys have followed us on this journey of putting together this team and uh russ and ash are sort of partners in all of this are so brilliant at hiring there's such they're so good at it and i'm i'm i'm so bad at that like in my own life like i'm if i have to get someone to do something for me i i'm i've i literally have one person in my life who I trust to do things, who I went to school with, literally.

11:25So it's like, it's so brilliant, the people that they bring on board who are so excellent in every regard, and even including the people that work on this podcast. It's so fantastic. And, you know, it's, it's taken us a while to sort of, you know, that thing of firing slowly. and I'll be honest, we're going to fire all very quick. So it's... Strap in. Strap in, guys. But it's, yeah, it's fantastic.

12:02What has been the scariest moment of the entire businessman journey for you?

12:07Joel Dommett:Well, physically most scary was when Russ announced who had to have their nipple pierced. Okay, so the person who has got the least surveys completed and the person who will be receiving the nipple pierce is... Joel.

12:32Congratulations, Fred.

12:37Congratulations. I'm so proud. I'm so proud. Good luck. Oh, man. I mean, isn't it mad that I was so in the balance? It's ridiculous, frankly. It's like, it's mad that it was almost you. Because, like, you almost, like, see, you know, if I get it done, everyone's like, yeah, fucking Joel, innit?

13:01Joel Dommett:Do you know what I mean? But, like, if Ben Shepard had his nipple, like, what? I mean, I didn't look into the voting, but I'm with Trump on this. I'm not sure. Some fixing. I'm not sure the calculations were fair. I mean, I'm not convinced. We should check some of those mail-in ballots. Yeah. How many times did your mum vote? So many. Too many. So many emails. She's got all of them. That's why it closed the gap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was physically the most... It was so painful. It was so painful. It was beautiful. Beautiful. I've still got it on my shelf at my bathroom. It still winks at you, doesn't it?

13:35Still there. A little nipple winking. Just looking at me. I've still probably just got a hole in it.

13:39Joel Dommett:Have you... Do you ever pass anything through it just to see the whole stool there? Yeah, every now and again I just sort of, I put my mouth on it and try and whistle. When I blow through my nipple now, it makes an amazing tune, like a sort of sky lark. If you're windsurfing. Yeah, it goes... When a breeze goes through. Do you know one of the other things that I think, and this is certainly at the start of this, when we'd sit with Caroline, or we'd sit with Trini, or we'd sit with Deborah Meaden or with Sarah even. And they'd say, so tell us about your brand. It didn't have a name back then. What is it?

14:16Joel Dommett:Why is it? What's your... And Deborah's big thing, Deborah Meaden says, what's your why? And actually, I felt at the time, the journey we've come on through talking to our community and talking together and working through the team, I'm so much clearer on that than certainly when we started. So true. And I can remember them asking me that question. and I just started sweating, thinking, I've got to be able to answer this. I didn't have the words at the time. It was a feeling we had. It was a way we felt about trying to do something, but we couldn't distill it down into a really understandable, clear, bite-sized chunk that was transferable and believable and tangible.

14:56And now it feels amazing that we're having meetings, you know, and things, and I feel like we're able to explain the things that we couldn't explain before. And I feel like we've got our why now, which is really exciting. And it took us sort of a while to get that.

15:14Joel Dommett:Yeah, yeah. To really be able to distill it down. You understand how important those things are in business. Yep. Seeing the real products, that was a big sort of scary moment. Here we go. So this is the initial testing of our foreskin in a very small bathroom. A very cramped bathroom. it's the sweatiest day known to man right so you're going see this is so start with this this is lime cypress and sandalwood okay we want consistency of the crepe the creamerizer the cleanser i've never thought i'd be in a downstairs loop and shepherd washing our face it's like we're married there's a big girl right how's it look how's it feel oh that's loving up beautifully it's a really good consistency oh this is mental isn't it Oh, yes.

16:07I'll tell you what. It looks quite nice. Our team have absolutely smashed this because this is a really... I'm not even kidding. This is actually brilliant. You know, that first try of those products, I think it was really scary. I think secretly I was scared because I was like, oh, no. Again, if it was really off the mark, I think I would have been like, oh, this is so far to figure out. The iterations are going to have to really change every single time. But we got it, again, fair play to the amazing people that we work with. Angela, our incredible product designer, who she just managed to really sort of know what we wanted.

16:48Joel Dommett:How has she picked apart the madness of what we're saying? Unbelievable. Turned it into a real thing. A real skill, isn't it? A real skill. A skill that I do not have. No. So that was a real scary moment, for sure. And I think the other time that was really scary was when we put the names out to the community. Yeah. Because we discussed it for so long. We had that meeting all together with the gang, with the team, and we threw around so many names and actually going, right, remember, whatever name we put out there that's voted for is the name of our brand. Is it going to be the one that we kind of all feel like we should go with, but we're not sure if it's the right one to go with?

17:28Joel Dommett:Will they go for something else? that felt important and trepidatious and scary and irresponsible but exciting. Yeah, it does feel very strange. It feels like you are committing to things which will not change for a long time. Yeah. You know, it feels like there's a lot of pressure on it. It's like picking your kid's school. Yes, or their name. Or their name. You're like, oh, God, he's going to be called Dutch forever. oh I should tell this story on the podcast I've told you this personally already but Ben Shepard was on the mask saying it he was Conkers Conkers yeah and so you when you have a child you give them like a comforter at some point because it sort of helps them to sort of sleep and and bunnies or they're like a special teddy isn't it so Wild's got a big bunny he calls him it's just like this he's got this it's so cute and they have them for many years It was quite hard to get rid of them some time.

18:29And so we got these little bears for Dutch. And we pretended it was a sort of present from Wilde to Dutch. And I said, Wilde, do you want to give Dutch his comforter? And he goes, there you go. And he gave it to him. And I said, what do you want to call Dutch's comforter? And he went, conkers. And so Dutch's comforter is called conkers. so that is something that he will have for the rest of his life. Conkers is now a massive part of it and if you're a parent you'll know that you say, like with Wilder, say where's Big Bunny? Big Bunny is a massive part of our lives and now Conkers is a huge part of our lives.

19:13Joel Dommett:Our little Conkers is going to live on. Little Conkers. I love that. Amazing. So DCD and Conkers, inseparable? Absolutely inseparable. As inseparable as me and you. Am I right? Yes.

19:36Joel Dommett:Oh, so last one for you. Which of the moments of the guests we've had on the podcast for this first series have made you think, actually, we might be on to something here? The moment that made me think, like, I think we could probably do this, is when people started saying this is a good idea to us um trini is a first a great example i remember james welsh said it was a great idea you know these people who are industry experts um and just coming in and giving us that little bit of confidence even caroline hirons to a degree even though she's very harsh she was very much like don't take don't you know don't suffer any falls if you're passionate about this you can make it work like she she saw she said go for it and that gave us confidence in order to make you know what yeah we can make this happen i think you've got a market for it if you keep it simple and remember that ultimately their core and again i'm generalizing talking about straight men straight white men in particular are my forte i gave birth to three of them um are lazy you've got to think about your laziest customer will it be easy for them and if you can take care of them you're done yeah yeah yeah totally just seeing other people's excitement for it i think that's the kick that's that's what finds i find exciting about it the comedy and cream night was a massive one for us wasn't it just the fact that we just sort of had the community there in the room at the same time and having people try products and just a soul just having everyone if you know it felt like an office party didn't it It felt like getting everyone together and us having a really nice time.

21:17Ben's a very charitable man, aren't you, Ben? I try to be, hence working with you. Thank you. We got together. Basically, I was like, oh, really, I really love skincare. I know it's a weird thing to be a two. I really think it's fascinating. But no one's going to trust me with a skincare brand. So I thought, who's the person who's the most trusted man in the entire country? Dermot wasn't available. And so he's very busy. He's very busy. It works one day a week.

21:50Joel Dommett:And we aren't underestimating what we are trying to do. There's none of this, no complacency about the support and the positivity. And it's just hugely valued. And I look at this little flip chart that we've got here that started as a bit of a laugh. And all the people that have signed that up till now. There's so many nuggets as well. I've just looked down at this list of all these amazing people. Tim Campbell if it ain't broke break it I love Tim Campbell man what a guy not least because his first business was a men's skin care business that went tits up I love this I love this shouldn't have called it tits up that was the problem that was the mistake yeah that was the mistake it was a cream to put underneath breasts yes where you lift the tit up and because you get underneath the breast does get dry does get dry so you got to it goes the opposite yeah yeah so you got to moisturise it he called it tits up and it arguably shouldn't have been a man who came up with it no well he was ahead of the game wasn't he he always has been ahead in the game was also his second business which was

22:56oh nobody's missed me

22:59Joel Dommett:so please do continue to follow the story foreskin official on Instagram it's the same for TikTok as well foreskin official everything foreskin is going to go via those channels from now on. A hundred percent. And everyone who's joined us on this journey until now, I'm not underestimating how pivotal you've been in this whole thing. So thank you very much for being a part of it. Thank you, Ben, for letting me go away and be a dad for two months. And thank you to the team for doing that as well, because it's been amazing just to be able to be at home with all those guys. I just want to thank Dutch for giving me two months off as well.

23:37Joel Dommett:It's been lovely. the team that make this podcast isn't just joel and i sitting here as well uh so uh carly and grace and charlie and uh gully and matthias maizey's in there too and maizey's helping us and russ i mean there's been some amazing contributors that have helped us get this far joel isn't there it really is and their their passion for for bringing you great content is absolutely huge and I'll be honest most of the time I ruin it yeah yeah I ruin it they have made you shine they've really they've really they edit me well they work hard they work really hard and at some point we will return to a studio not unlike this not unlike maybe like this for more waffle hot waffle and chat hot waffle was Tim's bye everyone was significantly more successful It was really successful.

24:36It was a little waffle business just outside. He used to talk to all of his customers for a really long time before he sold them a waffle. Huge.