“I’ve Tanned Harry Styles and David Gandy” - The Business Of Spray Tans with James Harknett

0:00Well, hello, my name is Simon Mayo. Well, hello, my name is Mark Kermode. Friendly chortle. On this week's take, what's going on? Well, we've got something for everyone. We have a review of Pinocchio Unstrong, which is a horror movie. We have Ask E. Jean, which is a documentary. And we have a new animated version of Animal Farm with our very special guest. It's director Andy Serkis. Do not miss a minute. It's the take. He finally got her. Oh, my God, he got her. For years, a deranged man in Wichita known as the poet stalked Ruth Finley. He sent her letters, gifts, and poems. The Wichita police put everything they had into Ruth's case, but got nowhere.

0:41The poet was always two steps in front of us, and we just didn't know why. And the city was already living in fear under the watch of another monster who called himself BTK. and he also had a thing for poetry. Could we really have two different people? But no one could have guessed how this would end. That's one of those Hitchcock endings that we did not expect. From Sony Music Entertainment and Numetric Media, this is The Poet. I'm Rachel Brown. The Poet is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcasts to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes all at once, ad-free.

1:23From men's perception who read fashion editorial like GQ is when I started turning someone like David Gandy. Yes. And he was very happy to say, I look after my skin. Yeah, I like to go on holiday, but I wear a high factor. And if I'm going away or if I've got to shoot, I go see James. Welcome back to The Businessmen with me, Ben Shepard. And yes, Joel is still fully occupied with the small matter of becoming a dad to two small boys. So it's just me for the time being holding the fort. Meanwhile, our own business journey rolls on. We are continuing to build foreskin from the ground up every week.

2:00We're getting a front row seat to what it really takes to create a successful brand. Well, a brand. Whether it's a success or not remains to be seen. But some days it does feel like we're making really good progress. Other days, it kind of feels like we're making it up as we go along. But that is all part of the adventure, so I'm told. But one of the best things about this podcast has been sitting down with the people who have turned passion into a profession, built businesses and unexpected industries and carved out careers by doing things their own way. We've learned huge amounts from those conversations.

2:32Today is no exception. If you're enjoying the journey, make sure you follow the podcast wherever you listen. And if you'd like to see our guests in action, you can also watch every episode in full on YouTube. Now today I'm joined by someone who has one of those jobs that everyone thinks they understand until they discover what really goes into it. James Harkner is one of the UK's most respected celebrity spray tanning experts, with more than two decades of experience helping everyone from TV stars and fashion icons to everyday clients look and feel their best. And as we at Foreskin are championing an interest in grooming, wellness and self-care for guys, what better time to talk to James about confidence, image and the stigma of self-care for us blokes.

3:14Now, just before we were about to record this episode, the fire alarm went off in the building and James, being the legend that he is, was really up for getting outside and decamping to a square around the corner. So for the first time ever, a bit like when you're at school, the teacher says, right, we're going to have a lesson outside. You can enjoy the businessman in the wild with a legend that is James Harknett.

3:40James, it says here, thank you for joining me in the studio.

3:46We've relocated to a very famous square here in central London. To a very famous square and we've got a beautiful sunshine on us. A little shade as well though. A little shade as well because we want to protect the skin. It's lovely to see you James. Nice to see you again. Now, I think we've established that my first ever spray tan, which was 2012, was administered by your very hands. It was. Back in 2012 for a magazine shoot, a mutual friend introduced us. You were very new to it. I was. A little dubious. And I think the results were quite good. You came to me at the W. That's right. And you're still at the W now.

4:19It's a hotel in Leicester Square. Yes. I've been there 15 years since it opened. I'll never forget coming in and having my first spray tan and being, you know, a little bit nervous about it because this was a long time ago. It was for the first time I did Men's Health, actually. So I was 38 and I remember talking to you endlessly about, so how's the colour going to develop? What's it going to look like by the time I come to do the photo shoot? Yeah. Because you don't necessarily get a sense of it immediately. No, I like to tan in a way where people can see it because I like to see it as it goes on.

4:48Yeah. I like to have what's called a guide colour, a tint in my ingredients because fake tan is actually a clear solution. So a lot of the brands over the years have put different componentry, different dyes in so we can see where it goes. is you look kind of great in it straight away, but also that dye can help just edge out the orange. So we would have had that consultation. Yes. So I could come up with the solution with the base colour in it, a bit like a makeup artist, so that you look authentically glowing and bronze. You don't look fake tanned, you look tanned. Yes, which is the key thing.

5:18And I've had a few recently, and I'm very happy to say I've tried a few fake tans here and there, and I'm very keen to try them, but they've not been the best. the very nice Eastern European lady that administered the last one basically said I needed to go double dark. Okay. I wasn't convinced, but it's the same colour as this bench that we're sitting on. Yeah, so you don't look like you then. No, I looked a bit like David Dickinson. But his is real tan. Yeah. And then I did the London Marathon. It proceeded to just sort of, you know... Fall off you? Fall off me. Because perspiration, fabrics rubbing against the skin, is going to take it off.

5:52Tan lives in our skin. It's a reaction to our skin. It's not a dye on top of it. So we have to choose our product very carefully, do our research. But when clients, a lot of gents come to see me, we sit down, we talk about how they tan naturally, what they're frightened of with fake tan, what's put them off in the past. And then I can come up with something that's going to make them look like a holiday version of them. That's the key part, isn't it? Yeah. Why? I mean, it's definitely shifted. There's been a big shift with fake tan being sort of quite a niche treatment to suddenly getting into the mainstream.

6:22Yeah. and certainly I don't think I know a single woman that hasn't tried it at some point doesn't love it my wife is a really really big fan because she doesn't want to burn because she understands protecting her skin is really important why are men still nervous of it do you think they still the word fake so the connotation with fake is oh this is not going to look real and they don't like the word fake so I like to call it as you know self tan um um, uh, a spray tan. It's, um, like being lit from within, so to speak. But like, yeah, a lot of guys just think, oh, it's something that my wife does.

6:54It's something that my girlfriend does. It's something that my sister does. Um, but I've, I like to think and just proof with the amount of guys I have coming to my studio now is the, that's about 40%, 45%. Yeah. If he asked me this when we met, I probably would have bored you then, but it would have been about 5%. That's incredible. in 14 years it's it's really changed and like say for the men's press here what was a real game changer for me for my business personally and just for men's perception who read fashion editorial like gq is when i started turning someone like david gandy yes and he was very happy to say i look after my skin yeah i like to go on holiday but i wear a high factor and if i'm going away or if i've got to shoot i go see james and that's it that's a big game changer because we can all look at David Gandy and see what how incredible shape he looks he looks after himself he always dresses so brilliantly yes but the fact that he's willing to talk about that side of his life and he's not embarrassed about it no and that was really big for me um and that really helped men's press have a bit more of an understanding of it and then they were more eager to try it so the likes of GQ and at the time you know Esquire um shortlist all the men's mags and newspapers were like coming to try it and saying, hang on a minute, this can actually look fantastic.

8:12This can look great because what it does, it kind of pops your eyes, your hair color, your teeth, your outfits just look better. When you're bronze, you just, there's almost like a silhouette of yourself. And if you're someone like yourself who works out and really takes care of their body, it really just kind of defines and just helps everything just look that much better. Yeah, there's no question. I mean, I grew up in Essex, where I think the sort of the county colour is orange, as a rule. And there isn't, I mean, I think, and that was the thing that I was nervous of as well, is that there's that perception, the fake town perception can be very often be a very orangey colour.

8:49it can and it derives from sugarcane from sugar fructose plant in the ground and the tanning agent dihydroxyacetone let's call it DHA for short it's a bit easier it likes to go a little orangey on a lot of skins so like a lot of clear tans for instance can go a bit of a yellowy orange color on some skins if you're like say more olive and prone to being a bit more oily they just look great straight away, a brown, but a lot of tans can go orangey on each individual person. So what looks good on you on the next person might look so great. So we need to look at the base color in the tans. And a lot of brands now put like a olive undertone in them, a red, and then a lot of violet as well, which has really helped counteracting orange and heading towards a deeper brown.

9:40I work with an Australian brand. In Australia, they're obsessed with ingredients, well-being, everything coming from the ground. And I was approached by a brand called Three Warriors about three years ago. And everything inside their tan is from the ground. It's plant-based, no synthetics. And they've put a little bit of violet as well as the olive in it. So I can put it on most skins. It looks brown, orange. When did you realize that doing this could be a career and be a really viable business? Well, when I first had a Saint-Tropez tan, which was back in 2000, 26 years ago, I'm very pale. I go pink and red and burn in the sun.

10:19So I just stayed away from it as a kid and then just embraced being very, very fair skin. I freckle, you know, that typical kind of Celtic skin. So I stayed away from it and I had a Saint-Tropez done just by accident in Fennec Bond Street because they were launching it there. And I thought, oh yeah, I lay down half now, I have it painted on because there was no spraying then. It was just a lotion. Okay. And then would they bring it on with a brush? So they would paint it on with their hands. So you would lay down. It would be like a full body experience. You'd be exfoliated, slightly moisturized in the dry areas.

10:49Yeah. And then the lotion was painted on, which sunk in, and then it would be buffed off. And then like a spray tan now, you would then sleep in it or rinse it off after several hours. I just look like a different person. I was in my 20s. I'd never seen myself brown. I was like, hello, come get me. What were you doing at the time? I had just finished a role as a customer service supervisor in Selfridges. Is that right? And I was dealing with complaints and the public shouting at me and I wanted an easy life. So I went and sold Creed perfume in Fennick because I wanted a nice, easy life. James have a Saint-Tropez.

11:23I'm like, Saint-Tropez, can I work for you? I'll give you the most profitable counter in this country. And they gave me Harvey Nichols. And I launched personally the Moose. I was the first person to use the Moose, which is still one of the biggest selling tannin products in the world. So I'm proud of that. You should be. I'm proud of my, like, of learning my craft from Saint-Tropez for the first 10 years. And then spray tanning came over and I just got it. And I just thought, I know how this should go on people. I know how it should fall on people's skin. It shouldn't be wet. It should look good straight away.

11:56People should feel comfortable in it. And I launched my own service in 2009. 2009. I came to you in 2012. 2012, yeah. So it had been like a really kind of quick sort of transition from like doing it in people's home and like working on the X Factor, which was great. I loved it. I was tanning Harry Styles at 17. Oh, my goodness. And then I was offered the W. The W read about me in the magazine in Harper's Bazaar and said, will you come and guest in our spa? And I'm like, would I? And yeah, all these years later, I'm very proud of it.

12:34We were laughing about this because I can remember doing a story on the tanning booth. It would be early 2000s that had just come to the UK. Famously, the scene in Friends that Ross gets into the booth and it's spray-tanked automatically. He's got a term hand and he keeps getting the wrong side. But you were saying to me that men still come in to you now and reference that scene from Friends, which would have been early 2000s? Yeah, 20 years. They've all seen it. Because, you know, Friends is probably one of the most popular TV shows of all time. And it's been repeated all the time. So people know that sort of iconic scene.

13:05It was fun. So a lot of guys sort of talk about that. I think, is it going to be like this? And I'm like, no, I'm airbrushing you. Think of me as like, you know, with a paintbrush. I'm sculpting you. That's why I like to kind of, when people are standing there and I'm telling them, I want them to feel that they're being sculpted. They're part of an experience where they look good, feel good. And it's a nice experience. So you were doing Harry Styles when he was 17. Yeah. You look after David Gandy. Who are the, what other celebrity clients can you talk about? because I know that the other thing is you still have a number that you work with that still want to keep the fact that you do work with them quiet.

13:39They do, and I respect that. A lot of the film work I do, first thing we do is an NDA. Maybe they're very private people, I understand that, but a lot of people still don't want anyone to know that it's fake. And I get that, and I like that as well, the fact that they trust me to make it look so that it isn't fake. but also at the same time I think people should be also be proud that they're not sitting in the sun they're not destroying their skin it's like like with sunbeds they're banned in Australia and New Zealand I helped get them banned for under 16 year olds in 2010 but guys still do them because they feel that that's not like a feminine thing to do it's what guys do but they're destroying their skin they're boiling their blood and they're frying their skin that look of well-being when you've been around the pool all day when you're on holiday and you you have a shower you put your after sun on you look in the mirror and your bronze and everything just looks great it's because your skin's been cooked and it's expanded it's a nice way of putting it yeah yeah yeah yeah um i've spent a lot of time with dermatologists who've like told me everything there is about what can happen to skin and then when people hear about the benefits of a good spray tan fake tan they're like okay i might try it then so it's getting better yes it's getting better more and more men are up for trying it and then when they read like some of the male clients that i've got okay well they look great in it i'll try it i've seen ben on the cover of men's health yeah yeah and there's no question that obviously you train very hard for something like that because i'm pushing myself to try and see what i can achieve but the aesthetic side of it there's a reason why professional bodybuilders put that really dark color on their skins yes Because it does bring out the shape of the muscles.

15:22It does. It kind of like the whole, we're covering, our bodies are contours everywhere. And it just kind of like brings out every part of the skeleton, the muscles, defines it, pops it. And it just, yeah, everything looks good, colored in. That's a great way of putting it. Yeah. And there's a confidence that comes about. I mean, one of the things that Joel and I are really keen to achieve with our skincare brand is selling the idea of confidence. If you look, you feel good when you look in the mirror, you feel confident about what it is that you've got to go and do that day. Yeah. And the service you offer is about the same thing.

15:57You're spraying on confidence, right? It is. It is totally. You're right. It's like for women, I'd say like it's radiance that's being sprayed onto you. For guys, yeah, it is body confidence. It is making you feel like you can just take your top off. A lot of men say to me, I won't take my top off around the pool on the first day unless I've been to you. That's really nice because they feel, yeah, they feel good in their skin. And that's what it's about. Have you ever had it go wrong? I've had it go wrong where people haven't taken care of it or like followed my instructions when they've left like my hotel.

16:27When I tell people in their homes, it's a bit better. I can say, stay in the coolest part of your home, have the Dyson fan on you, don't perspire, don't wear your bra, ladies. But I have had some people, a lady last year, she's very nice. She went home on a line bike with a backpack on, on a day like today. And I've never seen anything like it. Yeah, it was quite horrific. Like a war of attrition of the tans just sadly dissipated. Tan needs cool skin. It needs your body to be cool so it can bind. That's the way I like to word it. It's binding with the cells on the surface of the epidermis. Yeah.

17:00We're covered in millions and millions of cells we can't see. And that's what the sugar in the product is cooking. So it's a very sort of natural science to it. But if you mess it up, the tan messes up. you have to often get a lot of celebrities or people ready for very important events it could be weddings birthdays red carpets yeah what are the concerns for you when you're doing that and the pressures that are involved in understanding what your part in that process is going to be they've done the right preparation preparation is key when it comes to tanning um if you've got the residue of old tan on if you have the remnants of moisturizer sun cream deodorant dried perspiration is the worst if you're tanning on top of dried sweat which you can't see it's like a barrier so i have been doing a lot of people recently i did um for daisy ega jones for the met gala and also for can recently and she's a beautiful fair skin but she also loves to be bronzed just that slight color um and it just looks so good in her clothes on the red carpet but she always does the right prep gets her shaving done the right time that sort of thing 24 hours before and then no waxing as well before because it strips the skin.

18:08So that's why the tan can then go uneven. It's not, people think fake tan is like a smelly dye that makes you brown. It's not, it's a reaction to the person. Right, so when I come and see you next, I'll make sure I've got my shaving done at the right times. Your body grooming done a good day or so before you come, you can maybe have like a cool rinse before we do it. So your body temperature's cool. Nice. And there's nothing on your skin, no moisture, nothing. And then it just goes on flawlessly. It looks amazing.

18:44Joel's going to be very jealous next time he sees me and you've had your hands on me and you've been sculpting me up. Why do you think it is though, James? Because I mean, I feel very lucky that I've worked with some amazing experts, skincare experts, dermatologists, aesthetic experts that have really helped me understand that that part of my life, looking after myself, my grooming, what traditionally would have been called vanity. But I dismiss totally as vanity as being a bad thing. I think it's a really positive thing to want to look after yourself. Why do you think some men still struggle with that?

19:13I think it just comes back to what I was saying before is like, is that what my girlfriend does or my wife does? Is this something, it's not the sort of like, because of masculinity maybe, that they think it's not something that the boys should be taking too much care of. A good thing for me is like, if I do a lot of brights, this season over 500 brides wow this season this summer i'm tired i bet you that's a lot of brides i'm tired but i'm very grateful that's a lot of brides who are will be very particular about because they have no details left yes so they are very particular about everything so undoubtedly the color of their tan is going to be hugely important yeah it's like a finish on their skin it's like bring swatches of the color of the dress and stuff like that so you can a lot of brides show me the dress color i want to know the dress color and while i'm having a consultation with them like i will be with you now i'm looking at their skin i want to know how they tan naturally i want to know what fake tan products they've used in the past what's reacted well what hasn't i look normally look at someone's skin i can normally know what to use but that's after 26 years of doing this um so i can come up with the right right solution i know it's going to look real and most brides that come to me just want a touch of sun but leading back to the guys here like sometimes I go to like a bride's house I'm going to two ladies tonight sometimes their husband to be fiance partner will come down and they go hang on a minute that looks really good on you I'm gonna look really washed out next to you and that actually looks really good and so sometimes then the men will get involved okay so they'll be led in because yeah so they can see actually this looks real it doesn't look like a fake tan no one's gonna know so more and more year on year more gents are coming and sometimes I just do their face and their neck because that's all that's going to be on show in the wedding yeah yeah but yeah then they start getting a bit of a taste for it which is great it is great what about the worlds or and the men who come to see you are from is there is there sort of there tend to be a trend that they're businessmen i mean obviously you do a lot of personalities and and high profile people who are going to have pictures in the press and stuff but where where where's the sort of the demographic that tend to visit you it's that's a good question because i think i like i someone said to me the other week she went oh I didn't think I'd get in with you because you're only tan celebrities I'm like no I said I tan everyone I tan people and I do every walk of life and I do a lot of city boys come over and get the Elizabeth Lyon from Canary Wolf, get the train back again they're going back to the office and I get all my guys who are like working out like yourself as well to powder their bodies every day just before they work out so the friction of them running or doing weights or any form of exercise doesn't strip the skin.

21:49Interesting. Yeah, there's great ways of looking after it. And when you get your head around how you look after it, that's when you become such a big fan of it. And you can make it last. So if you give me a spray tan, how long should it last? I like to say to everyone, a good week with care. With the rapid acting tans, because they're a higher grade of tanning agent, they tend to last a good 10 days. So at the moment, I've got a lot of people doing Ibiza, Mykonos, and they want to look good for like two weeks. I'm like, this is what you do. Stay out of chlorine. Yes. Follow these tips of how you look after it.

22:19and it's going to stay lots of moisture, no hot water, patting dry, just being kind to it, thinking about it. And then it can stay on. I forgot it's that area here where you can spike. Between their pecs, yeah. So that's where I just get them to put a little bit of like, you can get minced out. Just like pat it on like that. Great. Just kind of takes all the perspiration off the skin and the natural moisture off the skin. And then whatever they're wearing, it's not kind of tearing into it. A lot of people say to me, fake tan goes patchy. When it does, it's your skin getting dry. but look after it and it'd be fine.

22:50And it won't. What do you say? We've got a couple of the production team, I'm just looking at young Josh over there, who maybe, have you had a fake tan before? He's never had a fake tan. Any reason why you've never had a fake tan? Haven't got around to it. What do you say, James, to someone like Josh, who is a young man, who's your red hair, so quite fair-skinned? I'm the same as him, though. We're the same, Josh. I've got that same undertone as you. And maybe a bit nervous thinking fake tan's not for me or spray tan's not for me. it's not the sort of thing I want to go for. How do you persuade them that it's the right thing to do?

23:21I'd say I'd look at it as you'd have a look of well-being. I would like people to say to you, if you had a tan with me, oh, you look well, where have you been? Not like, oh, man, a faint tan. Yes. And it's like getting the right colour on you and just going very gentle. A lot of people start off with gradual tans. Yeah. And gradual tans are great as well. They're a great way to start. And that just gives you like just a little burst of colour. But it's about getting the right tone of tan. on Josh, which I'd be able to do. And he just looked like, okay, you might've had a few days away and your skin's naturally meant to have done this.

23:54What do you think are the biggest mistakes men make when it comes to looking after themselves and grooming as well, James? Because I mean, clearly you look, you are able to sort of help with the tanning side of things, but you know your way around all of that world. I think for most guys, they're not wearing SPF as much as they should. And they're doing like, oh yeah, I'll wear a 15. And it's gone in an hour, it's sunk in. So I think if you're going to be outside eating your lunch for an hour and you're walking in the sun maybe to work or you're on your bike, yeah, think of your SPF. Do a really high one and reapply.

24:26Yeah. So I think that's something that really needs to be kind of drummed into people more and more. And I think it is. Like looking after their skin in the sun. I wear SPF all year round. I've done it since I was 21. I'm not bad as I'm getting on a bit. No, you look great. You look amazing. You still look exactly the same when we first met in 2012. So do you. One of the things that Joel and I are really keen to do, because I've been a fan of tinted moisturiser since my brilliant makeup artist, JJ, who I've worked with since the early 2000s. She said, you're going to have to give me some help here, Ben.

24:59The hands, not wands. Can you start using this tinted moisturiser? Joel also has done his own thing. So we've got some DHA in our moisturiser. James, how would you, as the expert in this field, How should we be describing what our moisturizer can do? Because I know that men would be scared about the idea that it might have a tint in it. Yeah, we don't have to use that word tinted moisturizer or fake tan or makeup. That's what sometimes can make men, the gents feel a little bit nervous about it and they don't want to use that. So I think what we look at is products that we can use for the skin that just give a little bit of radiance.

25:38they give wellness. They make us look very well and healthy, healthy glow. And there's nothing more healthier than a fake tan glow. Tell me about some of the stories that you must have, you must have given somebody or some people spray tans at some point that has absolutely transformed their confidence in their lives. Yeah. And like a lot of people, like they might have it for their wedding or a groom has it for his wedding. And then they just come back to me for like every occasion, which is really sort of like when that happens, I feel like I've done a good job. and they come back, say, year in, year out for all their summer trips.

26:10Or even in the winter as well, people are starting to feel like a little grey, a little sallow. You know, we know our winters here are long. We're not having sun for about six months of the year or more. So in the winter, tanning can be a real boost, just a little kind of touch of sun. Just give people that look of well-being when we haven't been outside. We've been clothed. The other thing I've noticed that is really exciting, Joel's got two little boys and mine are 19 and 21, but just how open my kids are with their friends about their grooming, about how they look and how they feel. Have you noticed that you've had a shift in the age, the demographic of young men potentially that might be coming in and getting their fake tanned?