2026 Predictions and What We Got Badly Wrong (and Right) Last Year

27:26But I thought that was a very good lesson in leadership and in standing by your people and taking ultimate responsibility or whatever he is, right? Like I thought that's a great leadership lesson. Yeah, totally. And it was the right call. Like, ultimately, it was also the right call, both commercially and leadershiply, in a way, because you put a lift a bit too much grass on the wicket, but I'd much rather a game that's exciting over two days than a boring five-day game, to be honest. So I think it's possibly the lesser of two evils, and it's pretty easy. I think you just leave less grass on next time.

27:56All right, but you might feel that way, and some people might feel that way, but ultimately, they're going to get a demerit point for this, okay? That's what's going to happen. But it's not that they can't play a game at the MCG, the biggest stadium in the country, So they're going to get all the merit points they want. What are they going to do? Well, I don't know. I think if you get six of them or something, you actually can't play a match there. But they're not going to get six. They won't even get two, okay? But my point is it is in that world, that's what people care about. It matters getting these demerit points.

28:25And I thought the leadership lesson in the way that was handled was extremely good. My general attitude towards failure, I'm going to call this a failure. I hear your point about it, but let's just call it a failure. A lot of people hated it. and it caused problems for Cricket Australia. The thing about leaders failing, and this guy is a leader, he's a head curator, the thing about leaders failing is it happens. Like we all fail, we all make mistakes, we all get things wrong, and ultimately my view in those situations is if the person's highly competent and capable and culturally a great fit for the organisation and committed to the long term of the organisation, My attitude is I've already paid for the tuition for this person.

29:08Like I've covered the cost of it, of the failure. I might as well get the benefit on what the tuition is actually going to deliver this person, which is almost certainly not making the same mistake again and being an improved operator. And I never really understand why people have this knee-jerk reaction to protect themselves by throwing an otherwise highly capable person under the bus because they got something wrong. I think it's hopeless leadership and terrible for an organization. And I think the MCC did a great job. I don't think you should ever throw something on the bus regardless of the – that's the external view.

29:42I think the internal view, how I look at it personally is, is the error an error of commission or an error of omission? So if it's an error of commission, let's say – let's look at this podcast. Let's say Mike's come and come up with this great way of making money for the podcast and it just hasn't worked. That's an error of commission. I want people to make errors of commission. Like I want you to come up with ideas and get stuff wrong because David Schaefer, my friend from Kogan says, you make asymmetric, or our friend says you make asymmetric returns. You get something right, you get a hundred X payoff, you get something wrong, you get a one X loss.

30:12So I want to say lots of errors of commission. What I never want to say is an error of omission. I don't want to say Mike just not rock up for the podcast and just like sleep in. That's an error of omission. He hasn't done something. I've got no tolerance for errors of omission. Like if you just don't do something because you're lazy, that's like horrendous. But if you try something, get it wrong, that's great. Like try a lot – obviously if you try like a thousand things and get a thousand things wrong, that's probably a judgment issue. But let's assume that the idea was set – like Matt Page's idea at the G, like he left more grass and he wanted a more exciting match.

30:40He got it wrong, but it was an error of commission. He didn't forget to – he didn't forget to get the pitch ready. Like he just got it ready in the wrong way. So it's – I think errors of commission are much easier to fix and generally unless someone's just like really stupid and making like dumb, really dumb errors. But that's pretty rare. But I think that's what I always like to look at. The one caveat to what you just said, I think, which I think is a great way to look at things is if the error that people have made in trying something has the risk return curve was badly skewed. That is to say they've just taken on way too much risk for the potential return they were getting.

31:16So that person, that person terrifies me. Probably I do eject that person from the organization because they've got the potential to sink the organization. But in general, I think your breakdown of it is actually very good. I like it a lot. You should have some guardrails. People shouldn't be able to make bet the farm gambles without someone more senior, at least knowing it's happening. So that should be protected by the organizational structures though. Yes, I agree. One quick, we're going to get our predictions. We've got exciting predictions coming here. But one quick question for you. And there's a bit of, I've chosen a time period here that suits my question.

31:51But if you would invest in the All Lords or the S &P 200 in December 2007, which is 18 years ago, what return would you have made in terms of capital? And obviously, assume there's about 3.5 % dividends on top of this, but let's just forget the dividends for now. What would your capital return be annualized compounding? Over the last seven years? 18 years. 2007. ASX 200? Yeah. Or it's about the same either way. 9 %? Annually? You reckon you got annually 9 %? 1.5%. Are you kidding me? I picked a convenient time period because that was sort of pre-GFC. But nonetheless, like 1.5%. Because all orders were like 6 ,700 points back then.

32:40It's now like 8 ,600 or something like that. And that's been 18 years of compounding. So, obviously, you had dividends on top of that, which makes it a lot less bad. It takes you to what, 5 %? No, it takes you less because 3.5 % dividend. That's not compounding. But whatever it takes you to, it's not a great return. So we hear always podcasts saying, hey, you can never go wrong investing in the share market and long term and as long as you put money in and blah, blah, blah. You put it in 2007, then you wouldn't have got a great return. You put it in 2009, you've got an amazing return. So it's obviously a question of timing, but timing makes a difference.

33:14So the retort to this is not my retort. It's Benjamin Graham's retort to it who says because you can't time the market, the only way to play the game is to dollar cost average. And so if you would have put all of your money in 18 years ago, you would have got this terrible return. But if you would have put money, consist the same dollar value of money in every six months over that period, then your return would obviously be much higher because you buy more shares as the market falls. And so I think that is the antidote to that. It's also more recent because you obviously haven't had 18 years in of the bad return.

33:50You might have, let's say you invest into 2021 and it was higher. You've only got a few years of that. Yeah. So dollar cost averaging certainly makes it much better. But still, it's just the point where timing, and you say you can't time it. You can still look, Cape Shiller was really high then. There's certain metrics that were really high that were flashing red. And yes, we've seen this Cape Shiller index all year flashing red. And it may continue to flash red. But ultimately, there are some index-wide metrics that tend to get it right pretty often. So there is a thing about knowing when to buy and when not to buy.

34:21And when it's really expensive, it's not a great time to buy. Let me finish off by telling you my experiences in four shopping malls in Sydney in the last three days across both suburban and city locations. I'm just going to tell you which stores had the queues outside them, which I think is kind of interesting. It was a consistent theme, by the way, in all of the different malls. So the craziest queue was outside Lululemon, actually. Yeah, our mates. So they were crazy. There were real queues, like there was a line. It was young women often with their mothers, like not girls. Was there a sale?

34:57What was the reason for the queue? Like, sales, right? Like, that's the period we're talking about. But that was the situation all over the mall. We don't discount for Boxing Day. Like, so, like, not every store discounts for Boxing Day. Well, you don't sell like retail apparel. Louis Vuitton don't discount. Well, we'll get to that. Maybe they should. So Lulu was big queues. It was pumping. Someone said, very smart though, said to me, it's because that brand, I don't know how to say it, L-O, A-L-O, it's because they haven't come to Australia and apparently they might be coming to Australia. So that's one of the advantages Lulu has.

35:30The other big queue was Peter Alexander. Big queues, every mall. Yeah. Unfortunately, Smiggle did not have any queues or maybe not even that many customers. So, Premier is not – you know, that's a problem with Premier, right? It's like – But Smiggle is not a Boxing Day type of product though, whereas Peter Alexander is a much more expensive product where a discount is meaningful. That's true. LaVisa, no lines but every store was busy that I walked past of LaVisa. Mecca, no lines but busy as usual and no discounting at all. They had zero discounting that I could see. Great business. I don't know.

36:01Discount. Joe doesn't discount. Enough of that. Nike stores. They were busy. They weren't queues. But I think there was 30 % off all stock in Nike stores. I think it was largely promotion driven. 30 %? Yeah. Everything? Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So I think that's what was driving purchasing. That doesn't go very well for Nike. They do it every year. Nike's discounting 30%. Every year. I've never seen Nike discount anything like that. They do it every year. Every single year? Yeah. As long as I can remember. So I bought some stuff from them, some tennis stuff. Yeah. I'm shocked at that. So only one of the luxury brands that I walked past had a queue.

36:35Now, you're going to say Hermes, but I'll save you that error because they didn't have a queue as it happens. No, Hermes wouldn't have a queue because it's such a small market that can afford it. Which one do you think had the queue? One of them had a queue. You said it can't be LV because you just said it wouldn't be. Chatty or Bondi? This was true in the city and in malls. Is it part of Louis Vuitton? It's not. It's a fashion brand. Fashion brand. Very, like very fashion-y fashion brand. Gucci? No. Moo Moo. It's not them. This is one of the only brands that owns their own mills to make their yarns and actually designs their own weaves for their clothing.

37:13Chanel. Oh, okay. So Chanel had queues. And no other luxury brand really had any large number of customers as far as I saw. I'm shocked. Is Chanel still independent? Yep. So I thought that was interesting. Pop Mart, packed but no queues. But I think that fad is still going. That was packed. I was going to say, have you heard of – my daughter's off – I asked my daughter who's nine and onto these sort of things. She's now onto – what's that? Jelly something? Yeah, Jelly Cats. They've been around for a while. It's like$70 stuffed toys. Yeah, which is what – exactly what? Pop Mart's – what are the Pop Mart ones?

37:53La Boo Boo. La Boo Boo's, yeah. It was what La Boo Boo's were briefly. It feels like – I said, what about La Boo Boo? She goes, oh, La Boo Boo's done. So her view was La Boo Boo's done. La Boo Boo's done, Jelly Cats are in. and my wife spent like an hour waiting for jelly cats at Selfridges last week. Well, my daughter finds jelly cats in op shops for$2. She puts them in the washing machine. Yep. Really? Well, we clearly chose Paulie there. Stick some on. She's building an eBay business. She's going to op shops, buying this stuff, cleaning it up, taking photos, using AI to help her with the descriptions and selling this stuff on eBay.

38:29It's really impressive. Yeah, no paternity test needed for that one. What do you think about Maya? People or no people? Some people. Some people. Yeah, it was pretty good. I think that business might be back, to be honest. Oh, it's always busy this time. This time of year, it's always going to be busy. It's the other 11 months of the year they'll be concerned about. Could be. But if you look at their financial results, they're doing a lot better. And from what I hear from people in the industry, definitely things are going much, much better at that business. Men's Formula Tire was a ghost town.

38:58That area was totally dead. But apart from that, it was busy. I saw – If Olivia and Solly can bring that back to significant profit, that would be one of the great retail achievements of our lifetime. I agree. It's one thing building a Trader Joe's or a Walmart or whatever. To bring back an effectively dead business or almost dead business takes unbelievable skill and like a business masterclass. It sounds like it may be happening. That would be – Olivia certainly has had her doubters. I think at Qantas she was pretty well respected. But most people, I think, thought she wouldn't do a great job at Maya.

39:36And even Solly is now in his 80s. And if they can bring that back, that is incredible. It would be a great achievement. I agree with you. I went past the Kathmandu store in Sydney, which is one of their new stores. I happen to know the Kathmandu CEO because he used to sit on the board of Catapult, Brent Scrimshaw. He used to be a very senior exec at Nike. And I messaged him and I said, I think you're back. I think Grant works for Kathmandu. Yeah. Well, you know, like this was busy. This store was really busy. And so I think, you know, Catmint has had a tough run, but maybe that brand is on the mend.

40:04I felt hopeful when I saw the number of people in that store. Well, Grant, my friend Grant, who I think works for your friend, he's pretty senior there. He came from Spotlight, which is obviously one of the best retails in Australian history. And he's a really good operator. So it doesn't surprise me if he's helped knock that business back in shape. Well, it's interesting. And I will say this last comment. So, these last couple of comments, I definitely, it's pretty obvious Black Friday and e-commerce more generally is having a negative effect on Boxing Day sales. Like, you can feel they're just not what they used to be.

40:37Like, they're not, it's not, it's not bedlam. Yeah, it's not bedlam. Yeah, totally. They haven't been for years. It's been, I reckon, 12, it's been that 2008, 9, I reckon the last year Boxing Day was really a thing. Well, Black Friday, in my view, is one of the, it's, it is a Black Friday for retail. That is why it should be called Black Friday. You know my views on my hype. I think everybody that does Black Friday stuff should be shot. It's terrible. It's the worst thing. Yeah. It took the most profitable time of year when maximum demand was being serviced at full price to maximize margins in the lead up to Christmas.

41:10And then Boxing Day was used to just clear out anything that hadn't sold properly. And now what happens is everybody buys on discount in the lead up to Christmas and all the margin, all the profitability gets smashed. So that's dreadful. Stashed. away yeah so we're talking about so areas of like omission commission that's one of the few areas commission that make sure like i'll go nuts for if somebody puts a black friday discount on no like not realizing i hate it and then that was one all right but you're not selling like retail like you know durable goods retail or retail apparel but if you are it is much harder to resist black friday because you will lose sales to your competitors there's no doubt about it but i thought it's Great businesses ignore that.

41:57Hermes isn't discounting. LV isn't discounting. Trader Joe's like Walmart doesn't discount. Great businesses don't discount. And ultimately, the sign that you're not a great business is you're discounting. If you have to discount for a day, bad business. Almost nobody that you know runs a great business or that I know. Almost no businesses are great. Most businesses are okay slash good. Yeah, true. So they don't have that luxury of being great businesses. And the last thing that made me very happy is I obviously went down to Bondi Beach and I went down to the memorial, which is a temporary memorial, but it's very moving.

42:29But, and what I loved is a lot of the people that there was a constant flow of people down there. It's just at the back of the pavilion. And like I went over and asked people if they were Jewish. I mean, some people I didn't have to ask, but, and mostly they were not Jewish, which I thought was very positive for Australia, frankly. but it happened that it was on a weekend and the person I was with said to me, my cousin said to me, this is really the first day that Bondi beaches felt like it was back to being the way it was and there's retail activity and people sitting in cafes, et cetera. And it did, it felt like just a regular weekend day.

43:05And so hopefully Bondi beach is back to what it was. There's always going to be that overhang. I think it's like the same when you go to Port Arthur. I don't think you've been to Port Arthur since ever. I've never been to Tasmania. One, you should because it's a great place to visit. And two, Port Arthur is just obviously a horrific place to visit now because of the massacre. And they've done as good a job as they can, but obviously you can't go to that place without being very moved by the similar tragedy. Also 36 people I think murdered in cold blood by a lunatic in Port Arthur and it's obviously impossible.

43:37And also it would be hard to go to Bondi forever now without having – thinking about the – Well, I think they should knock down the bridge that the person was shooting from. They should knock it down. Yeah, for sure. We'll go to a super quick break. We'll be back with our predictions in just a moment.

44:01And we are back. The part of the year that I dear looks forward to for 364 days. We'll go through. How do you reckon you did last year, I dear? I always think I do terribly. If I did well, it was luck. How do you reckon I did? Oh, I think you're better at this stuff than me. So if there's justice, you will have done better than me. I got some pretty badly wrong. I think the problem with a lot of my ones especially, I think it went too early, which is pretty common. Which is both of our problems, right? It's like basically you know the market is overvalued, but you just have to assume it's going to keep running for two or three years longer than you believe it should.

44:37We'll go through them and obviously make some predictions for this year. I said data center booms comes to a rapid end. Adir, you said, I think there's another year of data center boom. I know that the IPO for Digico didn't go well. The world is going to feel like there's a lot of money with Trump. I think there may be another year of data center euphoria. I think, Adir, you got this one generally a lot more right than me. This one caveat is the REIT section. So if you look at worldwide data center investment hit a record,$61 billion in 2025. Development also hit a record with$170 billion in asset value requiring financing during the year.

45:13From a specific company perspective, Digico, which is a business that I was talking about, which is David DePilla's roll-up of data centers, was down another 36%. NVIDIA, which is probably the poster child of the AI boom, which obviously makes chip or which designs chips, was up 36%. Vertiv, which is a provider of critical infrastructure, is up 41%. And Digital Realty, which is sort of a US version of Digico, was up 5.8%. So I think, Adir, you probably got this one right. Well, the thing is, after what, September, October, they started tanking. But until then, they're still booming. I think the ultimate measure is this, not to cast aspersions on firmus, but for as long as firmus is booming, we say the data center world is booming, right?

45:57Because that is the most precarious kind of business in this space. Yeah. Well, I think we say if Firmus gets away for$6 billion, then I'm definitely wrong on this. I feel like next year, like 2026, is much harder to call on data centers than 2025. My only caveat is I did call Digico as being a sell and that's obviously down 36%. So a small win in otherwise I see if lost. Second one was another one of mine. Chemist Warehouse, one of our favorite businesses. My view is Chemist Warehouse does float. I got that a little bit right. I got this one pretty badly wrong. And it settles well below the$10 billion,$7 to$8 billion.

46:35If$30 billion is right, that's a 60 times multiple. You should hold on to your view. I think that is an example of you going too early, but directionally being right. What's it trading on 60 times earnings? Well, it's now trading on 58 times earnings. So it's at$34 billion. It's up 12 % since the IPO. Firstly, you called the IPO. You didn't kind of get it right. You got it right. They got the IPO away and I think you should play double or nothing on that bet for next year. Yeah. I think so you got it less wrong than me. You said they'll have a 20 times multiple and gets a 12 billion. That was increased.

47:09So you got it much less wrong than I did. We were both so wrong on that. And like I can tell you, I'm just going to – all right, I'm at 20 times instead of 60 times and what are you at? 10 times instead of 60. I mean we're both on different planets to where it ended up, right? So I think we should hang on to that personally. Then I got another one, which I think this one is a little bit right, but not fully. I said, I think Waymo goes mainstream in the US. I think it becomes acceptable. It rolls out on a linear basis. I think it becomes as acceptable as an Uber. You said, you're going too hard.

47:42I think 2025 is too soon. I think 2025 is not the year of Waymo going mainstream across the US. I think in 2025, it's in fewer than 50 American cities. I then said, I think self-driving cars continue to evolve and I don't think we're too far apart. In terms of how it's gone, the Wall Street Journal said, probably both of us had an element of this, right? Wall Street Journal said, it's been a huge year for autonomous vehicles. Alphabet's Waymo rolled out in more cities. Amazon's Zoox started taking riders off wait lists in Las Vegas and San Fran and Tesla's Robotech taxis hit the streets of Austin.

48:14Mentum continues in the new year. Waymo plans to continue to operate in Miami, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Orlando and will continue expanding onto freeways in San Fran, LA, Phoenix, and other cities, and it's pushing into the East Coast. Testing is underway in New York, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Louis, Philadelphia, and Zook's plans to expand testing as well. So I think there's an element of both of us getting this kind of right. You're obviously more bearish. Well, the thing is this. I would not have been very aware. You were onto this self-driving taxi stuff miles before me, miles before me.

48:46Like you opened my eyes to how quickly it was rising, and then you always – like we have the same problem, but you suffer from this disease more severely than I do. You think things are going to happen faster than they will. And what I've learned is there's a technology requirement for self-driving taxis and then there's a behavioral change element. Actually, I think I might have underestimated the desire of people to undertake behavioral change. I think you can say the only thing you got wrong is the rollout was slower than you expected. I thought it would be slow. These things take time, but I think that the uptake is as enthusiastic as you thought it would be and has surprised me with how enthusiastic the uptake has been.

49:30No, I think you got that right. I think where I was right was I think people have embraced them in a big way, but you're totally right on the technical side. It has taken longer. So you gave us a bit of a straw amount of 50 cities, which is always going to be hard to get. So I think where you're right is it hasn't been as ubiquitous across cities, but within the cities that it operates, like San Fran, it's become extremely ubiquitous and sort of doubled in the last six months. So they were both kind of right there. So I don't think – I think we're both directionally quite right. Well, if you would have said to me, in a given city that deploys in, how fast will the uptake be?

50:05I would have underestimated the uptake speed and you would have gotten it right. That's the honest truth. Okay, next one, which I think you've got right and I've got wrong. Drone deliveries become more mainstream. I think we start seeing a lot more drone deliveries. Do you use a disagree, no change? Well, I thought that was ridiculous, that prediction that you made, to be honest. Yeah, clearly too early. So there's another, I want to turn it like, drone deliveries are not universal, but they are rapidly growing in specific localized regions. Major companies like Walmart, Amazon Wing, and Zipline have moved beyond pilot programs and are establishing ongoing services in various communities.

50:38and Dara was talking about this on Pivot, on Sankara Swishes on last week. So yeah, I'm just too early. You're right, it hasn't become mainstream, but it's probably a couple of years away still. Three years. That would be my prediction on that. You're probably right there, yeah. Next one, I think Tesla has its, this is badly wrong. I think Tesla has its comeuppance. I think Musk, well, half wrong, half right. I think Musk and Trump fall out. I think the political pressure becomes too much. I think Trump essentially is a populist. I don't think Musk is going to be able to cut what he wants. I think Tesla drops by 75%.

51:08You've said, I think everybody is saying the bromance between Musk and Trump will end. So I think Trump is aware. I'm going to say it's not going to end. So I'm going to say Tesla isn't going to fall, even though it's very much deserves to fall and is worth 1 % of its value. So I got the Musk-Trump thing dead right, and I got the Tesla thing dead wrong. And I was the flip side of that, right? Like Trump and Musk fell apart the way everybody thought it would. I didn't think that was going to be the case. I thought Trump would be too smart to let that happen, but you were right. Oh, being famous, at the time, it wasn't as obvious.

51:42Two huge egos couldn't survive in the room together for long. But I just kept saying the same thing over and over again. Tesla is a religion and religions do not follow economic logic. Tesla's share price up 45%, the 1.5 trillion, by the way, and its earnings are down. So it's the meme-est of meme stock ever. It is a worse business than it was a year ago, right? Like it's gotten worse. Well, the only thing that's gotten better – oh, sorry. The financials are definitely worse. What's gotten better is self-driving, I think, has gotten a lot – I didn't – like Waymo's still ahead, but Tesla is in the ballpark now.

52:17People who have it in terms of the self-driving now say they can pretty much use it almost like an autonomous vehicle now. Like it's not level four, it's level two. Waymo's level four, which is like full self-driving. Like effectively, there's a level five, but Waymo's level four. So Tesla's not there from a sort of technical perspective, but from a realistic commercial perspective in terms of people in the cars, it's getting pretty close. So that's a positive, but it's clearly the value. Like Waymo's worth 500 billion and is way better from an AV perspective. Tesla's worth 1.5 trillion and is worse.

52:51And that's all its values in autonomous. The bottom line is that Tesla, like the PT Barnum show, has moved on from selling electric vehicles to promising a robot army. I mean, doesn't that tell you everything you need to know? That's everything you need to know. I think you're right in terms of you said it's worth 1%, which is like you think 99 % drop is like unheard of. It probably is worth$15 billion. So it's probably worth 99 % less than what its current valuation is, which is incredible. This is one of the most – the 10 most valuable businesses in the world is 99 % overvalued potentially. Unsortable.

53:29I don't, there's only one thing that I can think of that would make the share price completely plummet. And that is if Elon permanently and irrevocably parted ways with the company in some manner that couldn't be reversed. I'll leave your imagination to ponder the options. That to me is the only thing that could tank the share price. Were you saying if he, if he dies, like if somebody gets killed by a runaway? Well, it doesn't matter how. Like dead would be one thing, but maybe there's other ways as well. But you would have to believe he's gone from Tesla and there is no possible way, not unlikely, but impossible for him to return.

54:08That share price is losing 80 % overnight is my guess. That feels like that's – if you're a James Simon's Renaissance type investor, there probably is a 2%, 1 % to 2 % chance he just natural causes, like people just die. He's in his 50s. He probably – I wouldn't say he's an unhealthy person, but there's always like a 1%, 2 % chance people can die by natural or unnatural causes. If there's 99 % price drop on a 2 % chance of death, that's not a bad bet. And there's also the other stuff that can go wrong. So it's actually purely on the numbers. It probably is shortable. Like if not for a big part of your portfolio, but just purely based on the Elon longevity risk bet.

54:50Yeah, because I think that, you know, that company's finished. if he dies, is my view. Not even if he dies. He could be incompatible. Any number of things could happen. And there's also a part company. Death is the extreme. He goes to prison for 20 years. Like any of those things where it's not possible for him to get back involved in the business. Next one is my last one, then on to yours. I said, I think Canberra IPOs, wrong. And it does really well. And I think Virgin can't get away, wrong. More likely to sell 100 % to Qatar. So I got this badly wrong. So you said, I agree on Canberra. I think Canberra's IPO is in 2025.

55:26I said, I think Canberra will be worth more than Atlassian. You said, I happen to think people will not fall out of love with Atlassian. I think sky's the limit for Canberra. Everyone knows it. I agree it's going to be worth more than Atlassian. I think Atlassian might go up from its$66 billion valuation. Wrong. So Atlassian, Dan, 36%, the$42 billion. Canberra did a secondary round at$42 billion. So Canberra's probably a tiny bit ahead. It's private still. So Canva goes public, it's worth probably 60, 70. I'm shocked they didn't go public this year. I thought it was a mistake. Probably next year.

55:58But I think we both got the Canva run wrong. I got Virgin wrong, got away really well and is trading 12 % up. And you got the Atlassian. My Atlassian bearishness proved very, very right. You're right. Yeah, I think the market did fall out of love with Atlassian. I'll tell you why I think Canva should have IPO'd this year. because the upside of continued growth by Canva is less good than the potential downside risk of one of their competitors doing something very painful to them in the world of AI, for example. That's why I think they should have FIBOed. They're doing pretty well. I agree with you.

56:36They're very good. I think Mel and Cliff are very smart. Like I think they know more than – obviously they know more than we know. I'm not going to second guess them. I think there'd be a reason they didn't. There will be many reasons they didn't. It doesn't mean they're right. And so it's the bullet you don't hear that kills you. Yeah, yeah. Those guys don't get much wrong though. They're incredible. I'm going to back them. There was good enough reason. On to your predictions. Idea said, I think the Liberal Party wins in the Australian election. I think the Liberal Party wins the election with majority, but I don't think they have enough seats after one term.

57:11I also don't think Labor is going to have enough seats to form majority government. I think at least a couple of teals get re-elected. and Labor does a minority deal with the Teals. I said, isn't that the Brownling view? You said the polls think it will be a coalition minority government. The result, Labor won in a landslide, securing 94 seats in the House of Reps, the highest number of seats ever won by a single political party in the Australian election. Labor also received the highest two-party preferred vote since 1975 at 55%, and Peter Dutton, the Liberal Party leader, lost his seat. So I think that one could be wrong, unfortunately.

57:41I reflect on why I got that so wrong. One is the campaign the Libs ran was much worse than anybody could have imagined. And two, you know, I think ultimately Labor didn't do anything wrong in the lead up to it and people were not going to vote against Albanese. They thought he hadn't really done anything wrong and the Liberal Party was unelectable in the eyes of voters. So I got there totally wrong and I think I just misjudged what the few months between the end of the year and the election were going to look like. In your defense, that was the prevailing view. So not as if you were sort of out on a limb there.

58:15You sort of echoed what everybody was saying in hindsight, but everybody made the bad call. It wasn't just you. You weren't alone. So if this Bondi disaster would have happened one year earlier, that would have been a very, very different election outcome in my view. You said I think consumer discretionary spending will continue to strengthen and I think 2025 will be a better year for retail than 2024. I'd say that's a fair prediction. I think interest rates will drop a little bit and that will lead to further demand. Result was in 2025, retail spending showed a recovery trend with nominal turnover growing 3.5%.

58:49Retail volumes, real retail volumes actually fell 0.9 % in the last quarter and real retail year-on-year growth was 0.2%. So yeah, probably not totally wrong, but probably not that right because retail was pretty flat year-on-year really. Well, actually what happened in retail was a complete bifurcation of different industries. And there was retail that did really badly and there was retail that really did rebound. So I think that was less obvious to me that that's how it was going to play out. I thought consumer durable goods were going to do well and they did do well, but I was surprised that some of the other stuff did so poorly.

59:28Yeah, I don't think you're wrong there. I just don't think you're right, if that makes sense. I think you probably get a sort of neutral on that one. You said, I think 2025 will see an explosion in M &A activity. It all goes back to Trump pumping out cash. My gut feeling is 2025 is going to feel much more buoyant than 2024. It's going to be some irrational exuberance that comes back. I think there's going to be excitement without the consequences. I said, no, don't agree. I think Trump's economic management is terrible. I think US interest rates maybe have to increase again and not keep dropping.

59:54I think you got that one more right than me. Especially in the US, global M &A activity was much stronger in 2024, increasing 41%, hitting$4.8 trillion. Some of the deals included Union Pacific buying Norfolk Southern, Netflix, Warner Brothers, obviously, Tech and Anglo, EA, Electronic Arts, Buyout, Chevron Hess, there's a few others. In Australia, deal volume grew 7.4%. And there was obviously Santos didn't work, but AirTrunk, well, that was a year before. And there's a few others. So definitely right in the US. In Australia, probably a bit more questionable, but I think you were directionally right on that one.

1:00:26Well, you can't bet against Trump throwing money into the market and trying to control the bank. So I think you got that one. Pretty close. 2025, what will interest rates do in 2025? I think the economy is going to strengthen. How can you reduce rates into a low unemployment environment with a strengthening economy? I don't think you can. I think they're going to be steady at plus or minus a quarter percent. I don't see how they're going to raise them. I just don't think unless the economy starts going badly, it's going to be really hard to bring them down from here. They're pretty low historically.

1:00:56I said with the AUD dropping 12 % to 15%, that makes imports more expensive. So we're going to start importing inflation. That'd be bad for inflation. But I think there's a bigger factor here, which is really what determines interest rates because politicians and the RBA are middle aged white people and that all they care about is property prices dropping. The only thing that moves the RBA ever is property prices. The ABA party has clearly stacked the RBA board with doves. I think the RBA board will drop 25 to 50 bips. It drops 75 bips. So I think I'll give myself a tick on that one. I think I read that one.

1:01:27I was shocked, shocked that that is what happened this year i'm not shocked because the rba is the dumbest institution in australia and they and i think you gave them far too much credit you thought they weren't going to be dumb and they were i know because i don't think they are like i think you're wrong because they are they unequivocally are dumb like they are politically weak and foolish and we're seeing now australian inflation's at hitting four percent the one of the highest in the world because they dropped 75 bips and what you said was right by the way like your analysis had you been running the RBA, you would have got it right.

1:02:00But what you didn't take into account was how stupid these people are. It's shocking that this is the decision making that went on to reduce interest rates this year. So yeah, it makes me, this is why I hate predictions, right? This is why I hate predictions because we both think that the opposite should have happened this year. Final one from last year before we give this year's ones, where will property prices end up? You said, I really have no idea. I will say, I think based on the economy, I think it will diverge between cities. I think Sydney will keep going up. I think Melbourne will be flat.

1:02:32I said, I think there's a reversion to the mean. I think the RBA freaks out if property prices drop too much, especially Sydney prices. So they will buttress any drop. I think Melbourne goes up a bit and I think Sydney goes down a little bit. Adelaide, Perth, zero growth. I'm a bit more bearish. The result was Sydney up 5.1, Melbourne up 3.3, national average up 7.5 because Perth and Brisbane, Adelaide flew. I think you had this more right than me based on that. prices did go up and melbourne only went up in the last quarter like melbourne was flat all year till the last quarter yeah that's because interest rate because of interest rates yeah so it was it was i was probably right for the first half of the year and then i think you came back with the whip down the home straight and got it right in the end which is just the random nature of 12 months as a period right yeah yeah that's a problem we always had liberation day and it was a pretty volatile 12 months um so i'll go through some predictions i got some predictions for this year So we'll see how they end up.

1:03:26As we know, I think a chunk of these won't be right. Let's see how many will get right. The first one, I'll give my prediction, you give yours, the Australian dollar versus the US dollar. I think, so we've seen the Australian dollar rebound from the lows of 63 and now it's at 67. So it's been a pretty strong rebound. We've actually got significantly higher interest rates in Australia than the US because the US have dropped rates and Australia have stopped dropping. So certainly 10-year rates. I actually think the Australian dollar, I might be talking my own book a bit here, but I think the Australian dollar might creep up to the first time in since, well, certainly since COVID, but really for a long time.

1:04:00It might creep up above 70 cents, might end up at 72 cents, I think. I think the RBI has to lift rates at least once during the year as much as they don't want to. And that'll give us even a bigger interest rate differential. I don't think the US drops so much, but I think the RBI increasing sort of 25 bips pushes it up above 70. So what are your thoughts on the Aussie dollar? Well, I think I agree with you about a strengthening dollar but i feel like you're maybe i'm more politically cynical this year and you were more politically cynical last year like whoever becomes the chairman of the federal reserve works for trump trump wants interest rates to go down interest rates are going down that's what's happening in the u.s yeah i'm not saying that won't happen by the way i'm saying you agree and so i think in australia you know what would drive interest rates up in australia Inflation, I mean, I don't really think that's going to be a major issue.

1:04:51Well, it's 4 % now. It's record – it's incredibly high, not record high. It's incredibly high. I think that's not going to drive up interest rates. I think that unemployment is going to rise. So that's not going to drive up interest rates. So maybe they'll go up in Australia. But I think they might be flat in Australia, and I think they're going to go down in the US. So I get to the same place you get to, which is surely the AUD is going to have to strengthen it. Is they on an interest rate differential? My one caveat, so I'll lock that in, but then I want to just talk against both of us and say that's what should be happening now because there's an interest rate differential, but it's not really happening.

1:05:25Well, we're making two predictions. What's the interest rate going to do and what's the exchange rate going to do? So I think, just to summarize, I think Australia goes up 25 bips and US goes down 25 bips and that pushes the Australian dollar above 72. I'm not sure you're that different, but where do you lie exactly? This is just me guessing. I think it's going to still have a six in it, in the value of it, like sub 70 cents. But the thing that drives the Australian dollar as much as anything, I don't know if it's as much as anything, but materially is resources demand and resources pricing and China's economy.

1:05:59And China's got some economic problems now. And if those problems continue, then the Australian dollar is still going to be kept relatively, you know, it's going to be a lot of pressure pushing down on the Australian dollar. There's two things. There's China and then there's US. So if the US dollar drops, we obviously increase relatively, and China sort of pushes Australia on its own merit. So yeah, there's two counteracting factors. So I think that's why I think it's going to stay less than 70 cents. It's hard for me seeing China rebound economically. I think the reason why we're not above 70 now is because of China.

1:06:30So my view is China stays sort of as it is, and the US weakened, so that's why we push above. But yeah, we're not miles off. My next one is my best and worst performing MAG7 stock. So my best performing stock is Amazon. I think Amazon is primed, pardon the pun, to really go well. And Scott Galloway has a similar prediction, so I've sort of levered off his prediction. But you've got automation really hitting their warehouses, so they're going to get a huge profit boost. AWS continues to perform really well. They've been the worst performing stock, I think, of the Mag 7 already. So they're sort of coming off the lowest base, so it kind of makes it easy in that respect.

1:07:03So I think Amazon have the most upside for sure, and I think it's probably the lowest multiple of the Mag 7. I think the worst performing, I think you'll have a different view, but for me, the worst performing is Apple. I think the plus side, they bring out a folding phone this year, which I think will go pretty well, but otherwise, they're just so overpriced. They're such a badly, not badly run business, but badly run for a product side that the Apple magic has largely been snuffed away. They're now a financialized business. Tim Cook's done an incredible job building shareholder value in the short term, but I think destroyed shareholder value in the medium and long term.

1:07:37I don't think it gets its full comeuppance, but I think we see Apple drop off. It's already set off. It was the most valuable business. Now, NVIDIA is 20 % more valuable, but I think Apple drops potentially 10 % to 20%, and I think Amazon is up 20%, 25%. So that's a pretty good pair trade. So actually, I agree with you about Apple. I don't see any tailwind for them at all. I thought you'd say NVIDIA. Is NVIDIA Mag 7? It's the magest of mags. It's the most valuable business in the world. Oh, I didn't realize they were in the Mag 7. No, they are Mr. Mag 7. Well, I think NVIDIA is basically a mirror on what the world thinks about AI.

1:08:18And I do think that 2026 is a year too early for all the innovation that's coming down the pipe from companies like Google and Alphabet and Amazon to damage NVIDIA. I think they've got another year of being okay from that. and then I think the pressure will really be on them. And so I do agree with you on Apple, but I think Alphabet is going to be the strongest performer. I know they've jumped in the last six months. Their pay is still lower than Amazon's, isn't it? Yeah, I think Alphabet's already doubled, haven't it? Like it's gone from$2 billion to$4 trillion. Alphabet's, no, I think Amazon.

1:08:54Alphabet's 31. Well, I think Alphabet's a better business than Amazon, so I think they're going to be the best of the performers. Oh, 32. So yeah, you're right. It's Alphabet 31, Amazon 32. They're pretty much the same. We were morons for not buying them at 18 or 19 times earnings. It's a fair – Alphabet's had an incredible last 18 months. Yeah. We said how much we liked it. I was going to say, I reckon Gemini is now my favorite L &M, by the way. Perplexity has gotten really bad. I used to love Perplexity and it's gotten – I found it pretty disappointing in the last sort of month, two months. I found Gemini, the new Gemini is now my favorite.

1:09:34I love it. What you want to say is Alphabet is your favorite privacy invader business. I don't care. Like I can buy my privacy. Give me a better product. I don't care. I don't care about that stuff. I'm not paranoid like you about this stuff. I know you don't care. I think Alphabet's a good bet by the way. I think it's a great business. I think Amazon, I think probably has a few more tailwinds, but both good bets. I think the NVIDIA one, like NVIDIA is completely reliant on this CapEx boom. As soon as CapEx, like it's multiples, not extreme at all, but as soon as CapEx, slows down, that's in some trouble.

1:10:04But who knows when that'll be? Well, I thought that would be 2026, but I think the deflation of the bubble, like it deflated a bit, right, this balloon, and I think that's going to prolong it. I'll pivot actually to one I had a bit lower, but OpenAI. So its last official value was$500 billion. There's talk of a$1 trillion valuation. What do you think it ends the year? What do you think its final valuation for 2026 is? I think the emperor's going to have no clothes by the end of 2026. I think the question, we both think, I think OpenAI will die at some point. The question is when. It's very SoftBank WeWorks.

1:10:41The SoftBank's been pushing up this vow like it did WeWorks. Does it have one more round left in it? Maybe. I feel like it probably is the last gasps. I think maybe it gets up to like a 700-bill vow, 750-bill vow, and then. I'm going to make a massive call on OpenAI. Yeah, go. Who's the CEO? Sam Altman, Scam Altman. He won't be the CEO at the end of the 2026. Yeah. You got the Scott Farquhar call famously, right? So that is a highly plausible call. Well, I'd love to see that. I think it's a better business without him, but we'll see how that ends up. I think people will panic. People will panic because it will be obvious that it doesn't have any real advantage in the market, in the AI market.

1:11:23Something will have to change and I think he will change. and I think that we've seen what SoftBank did with WeWork. They changed the CEO, right? I mean, they paid him a lot of money, but they got rid of him and I think they're going to do the same. But I might be wrong, but that's my big call of 2026. Next one is what will the Australian S &P 200 finish at 2026? Currently 8 ,700. 10 % up. So you think it gets to 9 ,500. So it's dominated by banks and miners. So the question is what will bank stocks and mining stock do? I think it finishes flat. Okay. Well, I have no idea. So I just – like I don't think the economy is tanking in 2026.

1:12:07We've got high valuations though. You've got things like West Farmers. Again, great business, but I'm 33 multiple. Like even CBA is still in the mid-20s after dropping 20%. Like things are expensive. Well, I'm not going to change. Maybe I went too high, but like I'm going to stick with that. But you should do another one because like I'm not going to – like because you're going to say to me, what are yours? and I'm trying to hedge because I don't really have any. So I'm trying to figure it out as we go along. So what about, what do you think is going to happen to the tech, ASX tech index? Yes, I think down 25%.

1:12:36So I think we'll be up 25%. Okay. We've got a very different, very, that's based on, I got one specific one on zero, but it's based on WiseTech, zero, a bunch of, in my view, grossly overvalued businesses because there'd be nothing else to buy. So I think they might fall like they might. I generally think there've been that a lot of strong businesses in the tech index have been significantly oversold. The NASDAQ powered ahead, the ASX index tanked, and I think it will recover. Now, if NASDAQ falls 50%, obviously it's not going to do that. My assumption is going to be that NASDAQ is not going to be tanking in 2026.

1:13:19And you kind of have to go with that because we just discussed the magnificent seven and that is the nasdaq essentially but i think the nasdaq is not going to tank and i think that there'll be a 25 bounce in in the tech index the asx tech the asx tech index next one uh bitcoin price it finished the year at 87 000 us dollars down 11 percent year on year at 126 000 i think early in the year uh after so i think it was in june I think Bitcoin drops to about$75 ,000. The tough thing about this is you're picking a moment in time, of course, on something that swings dramatically, right? And so I want to say this, and then you can push me harder to turn it into a better prediction.

1:14:01But I think the era of Bitcoin tanking is not upon us yet. I'm not saying it tanks to like$10 ,000. I'm saying it just drops. It sort of edges down. So you agree it's not upon us yet. but I also think the era of Bitcoin flying is behind us. And so what you've basically said is I don't think it's going to change too much. And what I'm saying is I think it's going to depend on the day of the week. But maybe I'm going to say this. It's going to be impossible for you to try and work out next year. It's going to spend more of the year under$85 ,000 than over$85 ,000. Like I think the dramatic shifting is starting to come to an end would be my guess but i've got no idea i'm just basing it on psychology it feels like it's getting old to me and there's no utility in it so we're really ironically it's actually been far more stable which makes me more inclined to want to buy it as if you're like a digital gold and what you want is a store of value i much prefer it being stable than jumping up 20 a year 30 a hundred percent a year to me i hate seeing something jump up like that so i actually like it better in this, which is obviously very un-Bitcoiny.

1:15:13Well, I think gold is going to keep going down. Gold has had an incredible year this year. It's dropped off its peaks. It still remains, I think it's still up 30%, 40 % year on year or whatever. So gold's had an unbelievable year, especially relative to Bitcoin, which is obviously digital gold. The main argument in favour of gold going up in 2026 is Trump pushing down rates, right, and people panicking about US inflation. But I'll tell you why I think it's going down. It's not an economic reason. It's like a social reason. When I see shops in Martin Place selling gold and a queue of 200, seems like regular people standing out the front trying to get in and trade gold, I think that's probably it for gold.

1:15:57True. My next one, corporate travel management never returns to the ASX. Well, you need to be more specific. Liquidation or no liquidation? Let's call it receivership, not liquidation. Receivership or no receivership? My prediction is it doesn't return to the ASX. I think it does go into receivership and liquidation at some point. I can't guarantee it'll be 2026 though. So I think the 2026 prediction, which we can say, is it won't relist in 2026. So I'm going to be a bit more specific on this. I think there's two roads that I believe are most likely. One is a return to the ASX or alternatively a trade sale to a flight centre or whatever as the reason it doesn't return to the ASX, but I don't think it's going to go into administration, receivership or liquidation in 2026.

1:16:39The other option just stays unlisted all year, never comes back, but it doesn't actually go until. Okay, so I don't think that's going to happen in 2022. I think by the end of 2026 – You think something will happen, either relists or sells. Yes, that's right. That's right. I think neither – well, it could sell. I think genuinely – I actually think neither of those could happen. You think status quo? I think it never relists and at some point goes under. I just don't know if that would be there next year. Gambling stocks, main one is Flutter, which of course owns Sportsbet, which has been an incredible business, which is worth 28 billion pounds.

1:17:10Entame, which is worth 4.5 billion pounds. I think they're the two biggest. I think gambling stocks and most of the UK, I think they struggle. I think prediction markets, so Polymarket and Kelsey continue to take market share. They're essentially gambling businesses with better odds because there's less of a middleman. So I think gambling stock and Flutter's already off. Flutter's been a great performing stock over decades, but I think Flutter continues to drop. and I think these prediction markets just get market share. I agree with you on those. One of the things that's maybe not so well understood about prediction markets is how smart the operators are.

1:17:45So they went and got federal licensing and so now when states are trying to ban them and states have a lot of power in the US, their argument, their defense is, but we have federal license and that overrides the states and I think they're going to win that is my guess and I also think like Trump wants them to win and I agree with you I don't have a 2026 view I think directionally you're right by the way even DraftKings like down I don't know a few like it's flat for the year basically DraftKings if what you're saying is the trend is going to be away from the large incumbent betting businesses to smaller more nimble businesses taking material market share.

1:18:30I totally agree with that. But I also want to say, I think total spend on gambling is going to rise and rise and rise and rise for the next decade. I think it's going to continue. And so, yeah, I think you can still ride that horse, so to speak, all the way home. But if I was going to bet on something now, it would be, I'm definitely a believer in smaller, more nimble betting businesses over large incumbents. I agree with you on that. Next one is, I think the zero share price, which is down 33 % this year and 23 % over five years, drops another 30%. That's a massive call. I'm trying to think about how I can disagree with you on that.

1:19:09I mean, there are some true believers in that stock. I don't think they're going to deliver outcomes in 2026. I don't know if it's going to be 30%. It's hard to disagree with you directionally. I think their results are not going to be amazing and people are going to lose confidence in them. I kind of largely agree with you on that. I can't really disagree. My next one is aviation stocks. If you look at this year, Qantas have been up 13%. Cathay up 34%. United up 13%. Delta up 12%. Virgin up 12%. That's Virgin Australia. I think aviation stocks have another good year with oil prices down to sort of below$60 or at$60.

1:19:41That's their biggest input cost. They've all done an amazing job with their credit card tie-ups. I don't think it's a blowout year, but I think they all grow up another sort of 10 % to sort of 12 % again, which would continue the golden era of aviation. I don't know. So your arguments sound plausible and I think you're right on oil and you're right on the fact that they are milking the hell out of margins right now. So I agree with you. One of the things I think this is the year where AVs become mainstream. I went a bit early last year. I think Tesla continues to roll out in Australia and I think we see Waymo go absolutely off its chops in the US.

1:20:16And you've got Zoox coming on board. So this could be the year where we really see autonomous vehicles become a real thing. So what should we, because I want to disagree with you on that again. So what measure should we use for that? That's the challenge. I think we see 200 % growth in rides taken. Let's start with this. Is it going to be in at least one city in Australia? Oh, no, I think Australia. I think what we see is Tesla in Australia becoming much more mainstream. So they sell more and more cars. Oh, I like this. We can talk about a few things here. So I'll ask you a few specific questions.

1:20:48Tesla sales growth in Australia? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure they announce it. I think Tesla can – there's a lot of – BYU is doing very well. There's a lot of competition. I think Tesla goes okay in Australia. I don't think it shoots the lights out though. So I'll tell you my views. No autonomous taxis in Australia in 2026. I agree with that. I don't think Waymo is coming here, but I think we'll have Tesla rolling out autonomous driving much more greater – in a greater extent. Tesla is not – tell me if you – I'm trying to get to something you can disagree with.

1:21:18Tesla doesn't get to your so-called level four by the end of 2026? You know, that's probably right because it's not level four in the US either. But like it's effectively, it's as good as in many ways. You can use it now. So I think people start embracing it a lot more and it becomes much more of a thing. It's now super niche. Like you might hear the odd person who's driven a Tesla and said it's basically like an EV. I think it becomes much more common that you hear people saying, I'm not really having to drive much anymore. So I don't know how many cities it's in in the US. let's say 10. I think it's currently in like, it will be in 10 by the end of next year.

1:21:51Yeah. I think it doesn't pass 30 by the end of next year. I'm reducing my number. I agree with that, but I agree that the penetration in the cities is really high, but the number of cities is slower than I thought certainly last year. Oh, I'm trying to find things to disagree with you, but I think you finally come back to reality on self. So I think we agree on this. I'm still saying 200 % growth is pretty significant growth for anything though. Well, I don't really know. I don't know what last year was. So if you say, do I think it's going to, the growth is going to accelerate? Yes, I do. All right.

1:22:21So my prediction is Grand Theft Auto 6 will finally launch in 2026 and it will be the biggest selling video game in history. Mike, is it launching or not? I'll be a contrarian to a deer and I will say it will not launch in 2026 and will launch in 2027. I'll say this, if it does launch, which I think it will, and it sells like crazy, which I think it will, it will not get game of the year because that seems to always go to indie games now. Give us one more. Give us one more prediction. What other prediction can I make? It's a Victorian state election this year, right? So give us your view on who wins the Victorian election.

1:22:59Oh, yeah, the state election. I think the Liberals are going to win the state election. Yeah. Well, I'm certainly very hopeful that happens. Well, don't be hope. We're not doing hope here. We're doing predictions. I'll give it to them with a three-seat majority. How about that? Thoughts and prayers. Hopefully we get this through. I think they're home. Basically, I've said this for a long time. The Liberal Party needs somebody that's at least as electable as a rock, a large rock, that doesn't say anything and doesn't do anything. That's a starting point. And until now, there was no rock-level leader.

1:23:32And I think Jess Wilson is better than a rock. She's well-spoken and she's got good ideas, and she needs to not try and be too well-spoken or have too many ideas because people will vote for a rock. and so like Bill Shorten made the mistake of not being rock-like enough. Which is a real shame. I really like Bill Shorten. The election. That was a real loss. And so Jess Wilson should channel the theory, be the rock, not Dwayne the Rock Johnson. That would be not the right rock, but a rock and she will win the election. That's my gut feel. People do not want this government in Victoria. I think we'll wrap it up there.

1:24:09It was a great episode. As you know, we love our predictions episode. We love to see where we got it wrong and occasionally got it right. last year. We will see, obviously, in a year's time. As you know, we're the only podcast that doesn't sleep. We record right through. So you're getting your fresh, not these old sort of one-year-old rehashes that every other podcast does. You're getting fresh episodes twice a week, every week. So don't tune out. We'll see everybody on Saturday. Thank you, Mike and I did. And how about this for a last prediction? I predict slash promise listeners that we are going to do some very big and very exciting things with the contrarians i don't want to say brand but like franchise with this contrarians yeah what thing that we're doing like there's some very very cool stuff that we've got planned that i think people will love and it will give many more people a chance to get more involved in it as well i agree great prediction thank you guys we'll see everybody on saturday for our ask us anything episode as always see you soon Thank you.