Building a Career in Illustration on Your Own Terms, with Malika Favre

15:01Malika Favre:And I also realized that it's like as an illustrator, everyone wants to put you in a box all the time. And there is this thing where every client wants, I mean, let's say 80 % of clients want to, they want something you've already drawn. because they, you know, and so the risk in that is that you're constantly, constantly asked to rip yourself off. You're constantly asked to copy yourself and you end up doing it sometimes and it's okay. You repeat a little bit, but if you do that for too long, then you become irrelevant and then no one wants to work with you anymore because everyone is sick of looking at the same thing over and over again.

15:41Malika Favre:So I think it's constantly pushing yourself, doing personal work, taking your work in different directions and yeah it's pivoting all the time kind of reassessing why I am where do I want to be what kind of clients do I want to work for because you you end up being yeah put in a box very easily like oh she only does advertising or oh she only does editorial so you constantly need to you know get the ball rolling and things moving and that's

16:11Katy Cowan:exhausting oh god it is and how do you find these clients do they come to you on and or is it a case of networking you're at that stage now where you're the sweet spot that you're known in the

16:22Malika Favre:industry and i think from the beginning it doesn't change much but they've in a way like they've always come they've always come because i also believe that if you if you do good work and i think at the beginning they came because i was doing a lot of personal projects so i wasn't waiting for someone to commission me to draw. So I was doing exhibitions and, you know, I was doing just like illustration that I was, social media really helped, you know, I was publishing. So I was constantly doing new things and it always ended up in front of the right eyes, I guess. And, you know, I was reminding people that I exist and my work is here.

16:58And, and then the

16:59Malika Favre:more clients you have, the more you get published, the more you get seen, you know, and, and, and And then also I had an agent, so that really helped in the beginning. And no, I was lucky that I never really had to look for clients.

17:13Katy Cowan:It's lots of tiny steps, isn't it, that you forget about?

17:17Malika Favre:Yeah, it's all the, I call it the invisible work.

17:20Katy Cowan:Yeah, yeah. It's like people can assume that you just got lucky, but I know you a little bit, Malika, and I know that you'll have worked very hard, very, very hard.

17:32Malika Favre:I'm a little bit of a workaholic.

17:34Katy Cowan:Are you a type A personality like me?

17:37Malika Favre:I never know these types. What is the type A? Which one is type A?

17:40Katy Cowan:Well, I did a talk lately and I thought people kept saying, you're a type A personality, Katie. And I was like, I need to look this up. It's characterized by high levels of ambition, competitiveness, organized, organization, highly organized, and a strong sense of time urgency.

18:02Malika Favre:Yeah. Yeah. I think that fits. Probably apart from the competitiveness, because I wouldn't say I am competitive. We're not going to be put in boxes, right? Exactly. No, the truth of the matter is that I'm obsessive compulsive.

18:19Katy Cowan:Yes.

18:20Malika Favre:For sure. I definitely am somewhere on the spectrum. I think we all are. All artists are somewhere on that spectrum. I think so.

18:27Katy Cowan:Do you have like things in your house that have to be a certain angle? like if somebody if if you had a cleaner and they come around and they like move the lamp

18:35Malika Favre:you're not that bad no not with cleaning i'm an absolute chaos with that um but i've got this obsession that everything in my house needs to be beautiful oh what including the partner yes of course of course vladimir is gorgeous no no but like i i I've got this like seeing beauty, beautiful things, looking at beautiful things, surrounding myself with beautiful things is it makes me feel calm.

19:05Katy Cowan:Yeah.

19:06Malika Favre:And it's the same, for example, when I travel, I need I need the place where I go, whether it's an Airbnb or a hotel or whatever. I need it to have something. Yes. I think it's I'm such a visual person. And and I grew up as well. My mom was like that. We grew up in a tiny, tiny flat in the suburbs of Paris. It was the four of us, but it was so pretty. Everything, every single object, you know, the cover on the sofa, everything was curated. And I'm a little bit like that.

19:38Katy Cowan:Was your mum an artist as well? Yeah. Yeah.

19:41Malika Favre:She never lived off it. She was a stay-at-home mum. But yeah, she could do anything. She could make clothes. She made ceramics. She made puppets. she's the one who taught me how to draw how to look at colors definitely and you had brothers and sisters yeah I have a brother he's a business guy business yeah he took the business side oh

20:06Katy Cowan:okay that was interesting like growing up in the suburbs of Paris though that must have been quite an adventure a great start you know have access to all that culture on the doorstep

20:16Malika Favre:That was amazing. That was amazing. We were like, so we, for example, we, also it was quite a kind of particular upbringing, but like my parents were a bit like, say like hippie in a way. So we grew up without TV. So not having TV in the 80s was very, very rare. Yeah. And so because of that, we were going to the, we lived like, I think it was like 15 to 20 minutes by car to the Champs-Elysées. That was the closest place where you had all the movie theaters because you've got like 15 of them down the Champs -Élysées. And so twice a week, we would go to the movies.

20:54Katy Cowan:Nice.

20:55Malika Favre:So I grew up with like a big, you know, movie culture. Yeah, my parents were taking, and they were not taking us to see kids stuff. They didn't care. No.

21:05Katy Cowan:No, just kind of grown up artists and highbrow stuff. Love it. And what's your favorite ever movie?

21:12Malika Favre:Oh God, I don't have one. There's too many, isn't there? too many i have so many but i don't know i'd say like maybe recently the one that uh

21:22Katy Cowan:roma roma is incredible absolutely it's insane and i think one of my favorites ever

21:30Malika Favre:trilogy was uh blue white and red oh i don't know if you've seen that the australian australian

21:37Katy Cowan:it's really it's beautiful okay i'm writing it down but i've got so many i i watch movies all the time love movies yeah um i did a brief a one-off podcast on movies um last year with miles watts lovely lovely lad and uh he got me to write my top 100 movies which took me a month

21:57Malika Favre:i've lost the list i've spent all that time and i've lost the list i don't know where it is and

22:01Katy Cowan:it kept changing as well what was at the top of course i can't even remember what the top was now some you know probably the top 10 probably had a lot of 80s movies so I hope you got to see some

22:13Malika Favre:of those oh god I love 80s movie every time I want to feel good I watch an 80s movie and then I'm like oh life was so simple yeah do you miss like are you kind of craving that I am a little bit at the moment I'm like oh just simpler times I think it's just like this you know living in this like attention economy and everything is like you're you know you're being you're seeing images all the time and like this prompts and this it's it's so hectic and I mean I'm I'm addicted to my phone I think I spend like six hours a day on social media these days yeah but yeah yeah I

22:49Katy Cowan:love that about the honesty like I would just I look at my phone and go oh shit I spent seven hours on Instagram today that's not good yeah well I justify it to say by saying it's actually

23:00Malika Favre:it's kind of work.

23:01Katy Cowan:Yes, it is. You know, with the other. In our case.

23:04Malika Favre:Yeah, exactly.

23:04Katy Cowan:You've got to find all those gorgeous things that you find to share on. Exactly. You know, I would buy this. Sorry, I keep forgetting.

23:11Malika Favre:I can't afford this. I know it's impossible to remember. I can't afford this, but maybe she can.

23:16Katy Cowan:So it's really kind of interesting that you say that. And you and I have navigated technology our whole careers, which just constantly shifts and changes. And obviously we both work in the publishing world quite a lot. So yeah, now everything with AI, how do you feel about that? Is it changing? Is it, have you lost work because of it?

23:39Malika Favre:I don't know if I've lost work because of it, but I think I'm also, I mean, in a way, I think I dodged a bullet on that one because I don't think people commission me purely for the work anymore. I think it's also for the name and, you know, what comes with it. So in a way, I feel really sad and I feel a lot of empathy for illustrators graduating right now because I think it's going to be a really tough world. But for example, I think because I do digital illustration and I think AI is definitely going to kill a big, massive chunk of digital illustration. But I think anything that's made by hand and crafted and as the, you know, painted or any technique that is not digital could actually thrive tomorrow.

24:31Malika Favre:I think it's going to become more valuable than ever. But vector drawing or, yeah, I think it's kind of, it's going to have a tough right over the next few years. But at the end of the day, I think there is still space for artists, illustrators, like there is still space for ideas because let's be real whatever the AI puts out is very generic it looks yeah okay it looks sleek it looks but it doesn't make you feel anything and so I think there will be space for illustration but less there will be less jobs but also we we went through kind of the golden age of illustration you really did yeah and also there

25:17Katy Cowan:I'm sorry to say, but there are too many illustrators.

25:21Malika Favre:And all these people are extremely lucky, were extremely lucky to be living of it. But I think you have way more illustrators living of illustration than in the 80s. It's like it used to be a small pool of people, then it became this huge pool of people and now it's going to shrink again. I see and I understand the angst and the anger of people and against AI, but I, yeah, no, I'm, yeah, I'm going to be a cynic. I mean, it's here to stay. It's going to stay. Like there is no, there is no fighting it. So it's almost like I'm using AI, not at all for the illustration work, but I'm using AI a lot for my side project of curation.

26:07Malika Favre:And it really, it kind of became like my personal assistant. yeah you know and and without without that without this tool i don't think i would have built a platform i don't think i would have had the physical times the energy so there are it's a tool and i think as long as it's used as a tool it you know it could actually be helpful but it's also extremely dangerous it's an extremely dangerous tool if you let it

26:35Katy Cowan:thing by itself that's a problem yeah it's true um that's our stance at creative beam we believe that it should be something that enhances creatives lives rather than replace them um and hopefully that goes without saying and we're walking a bit of a tightrope because we want to support um you know we've got a lot of people in the creative community who are using ai to for the generative stuff um and then a lot of people who are vehemently against it for whatever the reason they have and uh we've kind of sort of we're talking about it all the time and we're like well the generative stuff will sort of keep out um but we'll um absolutely um keep exploring how these tools are helping people because if it can make our lives easier and make us earn more money and make us more efficient and have more time to you know walk along the beach in Barcelona, then that can only be a lovely thing.

27:31Malika Favre:For me, the danger, like the biggest danger of AI is it will not replace, it can't replace skill, but it's kind of, it gives you the illusion that it replaced skill because basically what the output is so professional, but it's doing it for you. You haven't done it. So it's almost like, for me, I always have a, I have an issue with um ai generated images but i think i have an issue because i'm still waiting for the day where i see

28:02Katy Cowan:an ai generated image and feel something i don't care how sleek it looks it's it gives me like zero pulse like flat line yeah the brain knows doesn't it i think it i think it does we're smart and also like i think whilst some brands might be using ai to do certain things generatively I think that's just a fad, I hope, because they're going to realize the backlash, especially not just from the creative community, their customers, they want to know what they're looking at is real. Yeah. So again, it just reinforces that human made. Yeah. Higher value. You know, it becomes even more of a respected craft.

28:44No.

28:44Malika Favre:And you see, it's funny because it comes in parallel at a moment, for example, on social media where you get, I mean, we all know that the algorithm is extremely toxic. tough you know these days and again it's like attention economy so many you see so many images and people start to be like completely almost blind you know you just don't see anything but I think you see like for example the content that is doing really well now is imperfect personal slightly wonky uh not professional whereas like a few years ago you had to make like super slick videos and it had to be really impressive. Today, people want to see the human error.

29:24Malika Favre:They want to feel something a little bit like behind the scene and process work and photographs that are a little bit wonky and grainy. And so in a way that goes against the kind of output that, you know, AI is producing. And at the end of the day for brands, if they keep, I mean, they can do images that are super impressive, gorgeous to look at. If the person in front of you, your customer, does not feel a thing, he's not going to buy your product. So at the end of the day, if you do it to sell, then you kind of have to know your audience and we'll see. But I think so far people just flatline, they keep scrolling.

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30:50Katy Cowan:Head to the link in the show notes to find out more. Can you get a sense that people are frightened out there? Do you think the industry is scared? Of course.

31:03Malika Favre:I think people are frightened. I think there was a massive shift, not just with AI, even before AI, there was a big shift, I think, in the industry. Budgets went down, especially in the UK, actually. Budgets are terrible. So illustration budgets went down. And why? Because, you know, 10 years ago, clients needed one hero image, a few side images. And, you know, that was your commission. It was three, four, four images max. today, like brands need images for social media, for LinkedIn, for this, and they need things to change all the time. So you end up from a scope of work that was four images to 20 images.

31:44Malika Favre:Gosh. Budget hasn't changed. So you're literally dividing that budget by 20. And so I think the demands are, the demand is very different. And also we live in a world, or at least that's how I feel where no one takes risk anymore and everyone is so scared of what people are going to say on social media, how your illustration is going to be perceived, you know. That's then clients, at least in my case, like I feel that thing of like I've been asked not long ago, I received a brief and it was like, okay, so can you draw a person that is neither beautiful nor ugly, neither tall nor short, neither white nor black.

32:33Malika Favre:And it was just insane. It was an insane brief.

32:35Katy Cowan:Like just trying to please everybody in one kind of... Exactly. Yeah, it's a shame, isn't it?

32:40Malika Favre:Yeah, so I felt it was... Briefs were becoming more difficult. Yeah, kind of didn't really have a focus point. Budgets are going down. And there are a lot of illustrators out there. So I think there is a lot of competition. And I think a lot of people from, you know, young illustrator I talk to, they could do really, really well for like a year. And then suddenly no one wants to work with them anymore. That's it. They've been replaced by someone else.

33:07Katy Cowan:Oh, gosh. Right. So they're like they have a little moment and then it's. Exactly. Whereas you've been like Madonna. You just keep reinventing yourself.

33:16Malika Favre:Yeah. But I think, again, I think I really arrived at the right time. I think I arrived at the right time. at the end of the day, there were not that many illustrators. And especially there were very, very few women. I mean, a lot of women in illustration, there was always a lot of women in illustration, but somehow most of the women illustrators were working in editorial and books, children's book. So there it was very, you know, there were a lot of women, I think a majority of women but contemporary illustration it was 90 % men yeah that's insane you'd think it'd be the other way around for some reason I don't know why I don't know why I really don't know why but I think it's like it really helped me in a way because if people were looking for a woman point of view and a woman illustrator it's like there was 10 of us so I remember when your Kama

34:11Katy Cowan:Sutra art book came out and it caused a little bit of controversy with Instagram they kept like removing your pictures, didn't they? Yeah, but you know what? It's still up.

34:20Malika Favre:It's still up. I can still post it. Yeah, I know it's still up.

34:23Katy Cowan:It's turning everybody on.

34:26Malika Favre:It's great. You know, that project, actually, funny enough, that was the first ever freelance project I did. I did it when I was still at Ayrside, two months before leaving. And I think it's a project that changed the course of my career. It really, like, launched me.

34:45Katy Cowan:it's so it's such a beautiful book um i'm just looking at i'm just trying to decide which is my favorite um position i mean letter v is great v is great oh yeah v is great yes yes that's a

34:59Malika Favre:definitely a girl thing but you know what a funny story about the kamasutra talking about illustration careers um so when i did the kamasutra i had already done two alphabets before while I was at Airside. So one was the Alpha Bunnies and the second one was the Pinups. And literally when I did the Kamasutra, that's when I exploded. Like it was posted everywhere on all the magazines and the website got like 300 ,000 views. It was crazy. And literally what happened after that is that so many clients, of course, I got so many emails of people wanting me to do, you know, erotic work. And one of the big decisions I made at the beginning is the Kamasutra is going to be the last piece of erotic work I do.

35:42Malika Favre:And I will never accept, I will never do it as a commission. Because again, I didn't want to get trapped in this and I didn't want to become the girl who draws erotic alphabets. And in a way it was risky because it was my most famous piece of work and I was literally not being paid for it or refusing to get paid for that. But I think it was the best decision to keep the erotic side of my work personal. so I kept doing it for myself

36:08Katy Cowan:yeah you do it's great I mean and it got you noticed but have you turned down more projects than taking them on yeah definitely yeah yeah I think that's interesting I think I've taken on maybe 10 % I've said yes to maybe 10 % yeah um Dame du Soir sorry Dame du Soir that's the one I've got on the wall.

36:31Malika Favre:Ah, that's the one you've got. Ah, the screen print. Yep. Beautiful.

36:35Katy Cowan:Beautiful. Minimal. I absolutely love it. It just reminds me of the kind of 80s and just what we grew up with. And my mum had like a, not a similar thing, but a similar vibe in the downstairs toilet. Oh. In the 80s. And this was when they had like a white and red kitchen and, you know, kind of, we used to have those, do you remember those like wallpaper borders that went around the top of your rooms?

36:59Malika Favre:But it's true. it has an 80s vibe and it's also like it was a it was actually a tribute to one of my favorite painters which is a René Gruau and that was from the I think 20s actually so it's almost in between it has that like old old you know early century kind of look but then with the colors it has a bit of an 80s peep show vibe yeah it's great would you would you call yourself an artist or an illustrator yeah it's it's a funny one it's like i think i call myself an artist depends on the conversation depends on my mood but but yeah now i call myself an artist and the funny thing is like i think i'm the first one who started calling myself an artist i think i got to a point where i was like okay for me what is the difference the difference is that um no one tells me what to draw so even I take on commissions obviously but I also do my own work and I also express myself through drawings and so basically if tomorrow clients stop commissioning me I will still draw and I will still produce pieces and I will still be creative and so for me it's like I decided yeah I have a I have a point of view and I have things to say and a story to tell so oh, fuck it, I'm an artist.

38:18Katy Cowan:I love that. Love it. That should be on a T-shirt. Fuck it, I'm an artist. I love that. Going back to you mentioning the industry being predominantly men, do you feel like you've had to fight a little bit harder than, say, a bloke would have to get where you are? Or has that never really sort of crossed your mind?

38:41Malika Favre:I think I got really lucky because I was raised by a very strong woman. Then I met very strong women throughout my life. My boss at Airside, Nat, one of the founders, was one of my, you know, role models in life. And she was, you know, a founder. And also, it's the way I was raised. I never felt, and I had a brother, you know, and I was raised in a way that I always felt that I could do anything I wanted with my life. And being a woman was not limiting. but but then on the other end I also realized that I think the reason why it worked is also because and I hate saying that because I don't think we should even say that anymore but I the way I was approaching situations and work and everything I had very masculine qualities and they would call it back in the 80s you know so I had a tough skin and I was quite assertive I was never, you know, highly emotional and all the things which are absolute cliche that we associate with women.

39:51Malika Favre:And, you know, even my parents were kept telling me like, oh, your masculine side is very, you know, developed. And I'm like, oh, God, like, no, you know, it's basically telling girls that being assertive and being bold and being self-confident is only belongs to men, which is bullshit. but I do believe that yeah it was probably tougher and probably probably some people were doing for example clients or some people were telling me things or reacting in a way that they might not do with a if I had been a man but because I didn't take any bullshit I didn't see the difference it's like I don't really take things personally so I just and also I don't I'm not in someone else's skin.

40:38Malika Favre:So I never took it as like, ooh, someone is talking to me like this because I'm a woman. I was like, ooh, that guy is a bit of a dick. Okay. Yeah. Let's react, you know.

40:48Katy Cowan:Yeah. No, I love it. Why would our sex come into it? And do you think your nationality is part of you as well? Because like the British, I mean, I'm going to get in trouble. We can tiptoe around things. We can sort of be a bit polite. I know I've got many European friends who are very kind of fed up with our politeness, shall I say.

41:18Malika Favre:You are very polite. You are very polite as a whole. Look, I think that's also another thing where it's like, you know, when I was saying being at the right place at the right time, I also think that in a way being French is, it rarely does you a disservice, you know, because, you know, there is something like something that was funny, for example, when I arrived in London is my English was not great. so I could not express myself properly. But because of the directness that we have in the French language, I think I was actually coming across as being very assertive and confident, whereas actually the truth was that I didn't understand half of what people were saying.

42:07Malika Favre:But there is somehow the way, because we don't take shortcuts when we talk. So I think I was translating straight from French to English, And it kind of gave an impression of I knew what the fuck I was talking about when I didn't. So, yeah, that can help. But also, I have to say that I loved working with UK clients and it really shaped me in the way I communicate. And I think that the sheer talent of making a great shit sandwich is something that can save you. it's like it's such a for me it's such a beautiful way of working it's like you avoid conflict you can end up getting what you want saying what you want without being frontal about it so sometimes i think tick towing around it's is actually a very efficient way uh you know of getting feedback or getting your point across or i think we can french can be a bit too blunt and direct sometimes

43:07Katy Cowan:Yeah, like the Dutch. The Dutch are very similar and the Swedes.

43:12Malika Favre:Yeah.

43:14Katy Cowan:I've got a friend who's half Nigerian, half Dutch. And she's like... Interesting mix. Yeah, she's brilliant. She's absolutely brilliant. And she's like, for God's sake, just get to the point.

43:26Malika Favre:I think for me, one of the most British thing you can say, I'm always making, I'm always laughing about it with George. it's like I hate it when people text me and they're saying can I ask you a favor and I'm just like don't ask if you can ask me a favor ask the fucking favor it's like you've literally wasted one text I love that we you've got a new business line

43:51Katy Cowan:on the side here you've got a third thing you should start a t-shirt you know little quote t-shirt and quotes nuggets of wisdom wisdom by Malika

44:02Malika Favre:Yeah.

44:04Katy Cowan:And your other venture is going really well. That's just fantastic. You know, that was just you and a friend, wasn't it, that came up with this idea to share things that you love and now it's a marketplace.

44:16Malika Favre:Look, it's like, it's tough. I'm not going to lie. It's super tough. It's not viable, but I really think, I love looking at it. I really think we've built something quite beautiful, I have to say. Yeah. And I think for me, it's arrived at a moment where I needed a challenge. I think I needed a challenge. And it's like, I'm still doing illustration, but I'm doing less of it. And aside from illustration, the other thing I loved all my life was objects. And what I was saying about surrounding myself with beauty. and also I noticed something which is makers and people who actually make things, work with craft, are usually very bad at selling themselves.

45:03Malika Favre:And with George, we kind of felt that maybe we could just do that. Maybe we could be the voice for, you know, all these people making beautiful things. So it started as a purely, you know, just for the sake of it, like kind of curation accounts, giving shout out to people doing beautiful things. And now we've built a platform. So now we're working with brands. It's a completely different, it uses a completely different part of my brain, if I'm being honest.

45:33Katy Cowan:I just want to buy everything, like every single thing on there. Please do, we need it. I have no money left. I've just been buying a new wardrobe, Malika. I've got no money left. I know.

45:44Malika Favre:You know, it's like now we opened the platform six months ago and we're selling. So it's great. It's just that because we wanted our commission on sales to be fair and we wanted everyone across the board to have exactly the same commission, which is 20 percent. The problem is like where we could have charged more, you know, but so it's not basically it's not we're not selling enough to actually justify the time we spend on it. But then it's still what I realize and what's in a way makes me sad is that I know that people love it. I know that, you know, and basically it made me come to the conclusion that, you know, again, that's another t-shirt for you, Katie.

46:26Malika Favre:I think it's John Booth who told me that. And I was like, this is so true. And I think it was like, yeah, give taste to people with money and give money to people with taste.

46:37Katy Cowan:And this is literally so true.

46:39Malika Favre:That's great. I think the people who can afford our platform have shit taste.

46:45Katy Cowan:Yeah.

46:46Malika Favre:it's true but actually but actually it's not true because we have some objects that are not that expensive and not everything is unaffordable obviously yeah

46:55Katy Cowan:like I'm looking at the vinyl slip mats and the lovely oh yeah that's really fun aren't they great by Bruto yeah they're great

47:02Malika Favre:Spanish they're doing really well actually Bruto on the bazar I'm not surprised

47:06Katy Cowan:and the lovely clocks as well you know but you know what

47:10Malika Favre:what really makes me believe that we're onto something and what makes me want to continue this project is that because we have a mix of brands who are like bigger brands and brands who already do wholesale and then we've got small independent designers and craft people doing ceramics actually the ones who are really doing well are independent makers and artists yes and so that motivates me because i'm like people come to our platform to discover things that they can't see anywhere else or that they haven't seen in concept stores in other shops and they are the ones doing really well. People doing very niche objects or things like Tadashi Adamson is doing really well.

47:52Malika Favre:Josie was making the cat shoes, you know.

47:55Katy Cowan:Oh, the cat shoes are incredible. I'm just looking at stuff from Octavo.

48:00Malika Favre:You have to see the last, did you see the last collection she did? It just came out yesterday. It's on the homepage. Yeah, it's the artists.

48:09Katy Cowan:Oh my God.

48:10Malika Favre:She made an artist shoe collection with smudges. It's amazing. Have you got any? Not yet.

48:16Katy Cowan:Oh, okay. I bet you're like me. Like, which one would I get, though?

48:19Malika Favre:I've got the cat shoes, though. Have you got the cat shoes? Of course. Which ones?

48:23Katy Cowan:The slip-ons or the... I've got the Ziggy boots. Oh, nice.

48:28Malika Favre:Yeah. They are stunning. I got them like two years ago when she launched. I was like, that's my biggest problem as well, because even though I make commissions, I reinvest my commissions in buying more things. It's really bad.

48:39Katy Cowan:Well, you've got to fill your house with beautiful things. I know. so come on we need a little bit of optimism you know we've talked a lot about how things have been great for you and how it happened and how the industry's changed and gone through so many shifts um what's next and is there you know if there's an illustrator listening to this out there who's just getting started is that is there any hope for them can you give them any kind of

49:05Malika Favre:advice sure i think there is i think there is a lot of hope i think there is a lot of hope for illustration and for anyone who has talent and stamina but it was always like that it was always about stamina and talent I think the the the most important thing is to keep doing like to keep doing something personal and to not not to try to please the masses because it's also not to try to please people on social media not to it's very difficult I think you know to kind of not listen to all that noise. But I think at the end of the day, the beautiful thing is that if you keep doing something for long enough and you manage to survive and make it a little bit viable, it can, someone, something can always happen.

49:52Malika Favre:Something big can always happen. And it could, you know, the day that someone spots your work and gives you a big commission, it could be the start of something big. So I think it's about, you know, doing, keep doing, you know, the work you love and also to do work that is profoundly personal because no one can copy that. No one can copy something that comes from within, you know? And I think at the end of the day, more and more people are looking to feel something and for personal connection and for this, you know, they need work that is sensitive and, yeah, makes you feel emotions. So I know it's tough, but I think there will always be space for people with talent.

50:39Malika Favre:But it is hard work. But it always was. It always was hard work.

50:43Katy Cowan:It always was. I always have to put the hard graft in. Well, thank you, Malika, for joining us on the Creative Beam podcast this week. We will see you on Thursday for your dose of the spark. Thank you so much. Thanks, Katie.

51:01Malika Favre:That was Malika Favre.

51:04Katy Cowan:I absolutely loved our chat. Oh my goodness. So much honesty and wisdom and perspective all in there wrapped up in a gorgeous chocolate box, especially around creativity and learning how to protect our voice in an industry that constantly wants to categorize us and, well, put us in a box, I guess. I also really loved what she said about doing work that's deeply personal because no one can copy that you know doesn't that really hit home right now don't you think that when you feel like you're not getting anywhere and everybody is competing with you and it feels like you're just never going to break through it's very reassuring to know the more you lean into your own personal voice the more no one can copy you does that sort of make sense am I just sort of waffling now probably.

51:57Katy Cowan:Anyway, if you enjoyed this episode, do share it with someone who'd love it too. And as always, thank you so much for listening. It really means a lot. And for supporting the Creative Boom podcast, you can find Malika and all the information and her website link and everything in the show notes, including her wonderfully addictive platform. I can't afford this, but maybe she can enter at your own financial risk. I'll see you on Thursday.

52:28Katy Cowan:Thanks to Adobe Acrobat Studio for sponsoring this episode. If you're curious about what it can do for your workflow, head to the link in the show notes to explore.