The Spark: Adam J. Kurtz on Getting a Dog, Wearing Socks and Letting Go of Cool

0:04Adam J. Kurtz:We are back with the delightful Adam Kurtz, who very generously talked through what he's up to these days, how he got to where he is now. And we even talked a little bit about his new book that is coming out later this year. So we're really excited about that. Welcome back, Adam. Yes, we're back. Yes, we're back. We haven't just continued. How long has it been since we were here? Yeah. Was there an ad break? I might just stop doing that because it just sounds so fake every time I do it. No, I love it. We're back. We are back. At some point in time and space, we're back. We're so back. We're so back.

0:43Adam J. Kurtz:And this time we're in business. Although we're not going to get naked. Okay. Yeah. No, save that for the beach. Yes. Like people who have not listened to the episode on Monday will be like, what? What? Well, you need to go back and listen to that to understand the context. It's got everything. Weed, mental illness, nudity. British people being drunk and rowdy. Yeah, bottles of piss. I mean, you've got to go back to Monday. Don't forget, if you love Monday's episode, leave a review, five stars and a few words about your favourite part. Oh, you can come again. You absolutely can. I've run out of things to say.

1:20I've told you my entire life. It's a short life.

1:23Adam J. Kurtz:Well, I don't know if you know, Adam, but this is the bonus episode of the week where each week we ask our guest to answer some fun questions. It's called The Spark. So the idea is that we get to know you a little bit better beyond all the serious stuff, you know, like budgie smugglers. Nothing serious has happened. Maybe Monday was the bonus round, and now I might actually answer your questions succinctly. Maybe this is where it gets tough. Who knows? With that in mind, what's your most controversial creative opinion? I don't even know if this is controversial anymore, but I have long been anti-perfection.

2:04I do not believe that perfect is better. I think, you know, striving to do good work, sure, it's great, but nothing really needs to be perfect, I think. I gave a whole talk, I've given a whole talk on this many, many times, and I'll talk about it until I die. I think we get so caught up in trying to manicure and curate this perfect response to the brief or to this question. And the reality is that just getting something on paper is often more important. Just being direct and being honest and communicating in a true way is important. And also when it comes to making things, a lot of the times your production file doesn't need to be quite so perfect.

2:49You know, you're nitpicking over a pixel that is not going to print it truly doesn't matter so maybe ask yourself a question you know am i procrastinating on releasing this thing or do i really need to get this exactly exactly right

3:05Adam J. Kurtz:could have saved people hours of woe and misery if we're doing this sooner email me your file and i'll tell you if it's ready for print something that was really helpful to me as a designer is that I used to work at a photocopy center at my university campus. And so I would help people, you know, do their photocopies or print out their files. And I received all kinds of damaged, incomplete, just trash files. People would be like, can you print this? Can you make the logo bigger for me? Can you print this on a banner? And I'm getting like a 72 DPI JPEG embedded in a Word file. And it's like, actually, I can.

3:45You know what? Actually, I can. I'm going to fix it. I'm going to retrace it. I'm going to cobble it together. And I'm going to make you something that is good enough. And most of the time, good enough is great.

3:58Adam J. Kurtz:Yeah. And I didn't, you know, I just did it and it was quick and it got done. And I've held on to some amount of that. Yeah. In all the years since. I think we can apply that same kind of thinking with ourselves as well, right? You know, not to sort of you know just to say that we are enough adam we are enough as we are yeah you are you are if you're listening you are so valid you are so valid okay you are remember when we were all saying stuff like that yeah we you heard it here first adam adam kurtz is mean yes we're enough they can't see my face they don't know that my eyebrows haven't stopped moving this whole time have you got animated eyebrows as well everybody calls me roger moore can i this is not one of the questions see this is just turning into another podcast episode i recently went to korea and we went to a beauty spa to get you know facial treatments because they're the global innovators in facial treatments and we got injection i mean i had the painful salmon sperm dna injected into my face because I'm trying to look young and beautiful.

5:07But the doctor told me, she talked me out of getting Botox. She said, I don't recommend Botox for Westerners because you are so expressive with your face and you will lose the ability to really express yourself with your eyebrows. And in the moment I took her advice, but then when I got home and I looked in the mirror, I was like, fuck that bitch because, you know, 100 cc's of Botox might actually do so. look at that this is like they can't see this but i'm crinkling my forehead and i'm rubbing my finger across like six little little bumps do you know that frog it's like a wooden frog with a little dowel it's like a yeah and it makes that sort of sound when you rub across the back that's my forehead right now okay anyway that's my answer that was a kind of tangent and yeah i've

6:00Adam J. Kurtz:kind of finally put myself on instagram and youtube because of ai because of ai i have finally put my face what is ai i keep hearing about this some kind of robot shit i don't know just don't worry about it don't worry about it it's not gonna do it i'll just i'll just ignore it ignore it go away head in the sand it's fine but i put my face out then there is such a vain part of my brain that goes for god's sake cowan why couldn't you've done this 10 years ago when your face was still up there you know i'm looking at you now i'm i'm pushing you look great yeah and here's the here's the thing about white people we're not supposed to last that long anyway you know it's just that's fine yeah we're just we're gonna age gracefully we're gonna wear big pants i'm gonna wear my big parachute pants i'm gonna sail off into the world i'll be fine i'll be fine it's gonna be great what's the smallest thing that instantly improves your work day and please don't say parachute pants it's parachute pants no i'm just kidding um i think for me it's putting on a pair of socks even if you're working from home it's put on a pair of socks you are now in work mode don't be doing that lazy comfy barefoot in bed with the laptop thing oh no put on a pair of socks even if you're not putting on shoes even if you're not going anywhere pair of socks yeah oh barefoot i just got free foot pics if anybody wants um katie's my dogs dogs oh my god yeah it really helps i've got nephews who are like seven and well he's nine now and he just told me off for putting my dogs on tiktok i was like what dogs i haven't got any dogs how do the nine-year-olds even know that oh they know everything they know too much it's actually a really dangerous time to grow up anyway socks yes it sucks uh it sucks your honor have you uh got a preference do you do you color coordinate do you do that no i don't come on it's just socks i wear black so i have i have like 30 pairs of the exact same black socks when i match my socks it takes two seconds if one pair gets a hole i throw it out then i have a loose sock for a while until the next one gets a hole in it it's just soft but that feeling of okay, I am not in my relaxing mode.

8:22I am in my, I'm dressed. That really, really helps. And as someone who worked from home for years and years and years, and still, you know, I still do plenty of work from my home office. That's the mindset, the mindset shift that really helps. If I were wearing socks right now, this would be a totally different podcast. So professional. We'd be talking about like typography.

8:43Adam J. Kurtz:Well, we don't do anything like that on the creative being podcast, I'm afraid we don't thank god I didn't put on my socks yeah there's no art or design here no god no no no we're the kind of warm comforting cuddle of the creative world you know we don't we don't take ourselves seriously are you are you for real I'm actually very serious I'm here to discuss uh no just kidding okay let's um let's talk about the process does anyone actually listen to those podcasts though like talk about the process let's talk about the work i think that people might and then after about three or four you're like okay the advice is the same you know that's really the thing it's so much of that advice is the same and so you just need to hear it in a way that you're receptive to and then internalize it and then you don't eat it anymore yeah it's like when you go to a when you go to a creative conference there's like 10 10 white guys and they're all just saying believe in yourself or just be you.

9:41And it's like, okay, well, as soon as that clicks for you, you can move on.

9:46Adam J. Kurtz:Yes. Should we summarize it just to sort of wrap it up so we never have to talk about it ever again? Yeah. Just be yourself unless yourself is bad. Yes. I was going to say, work really hard, build up an Instagram reputation, do loads of talks, burn yourself out and then open a shop in Honolulu. Something like that. But the talks don't really pay. I think that's a misconception that you're not some people make money from speaking but not necessarily not many people and i don't think in this industry i think that's for like you know enterprise level that's for like business motivational speakers doing inside internal gigs god i know plenty of people who have spoken at you know the cool conferences and it looks like a big deal but they've not been paid at all they paid their own travel they just wanted the you know the optics of it i don't know I think I used to really glamorize public speaking as like a cool thing that was really important I'm better than you because I've avoided talks my whole life and now I'm just starting to do them so now I'm sort of sliding backwards I think if someone wants to hear you speak you know if you could help someone in that immediate way that's nice what I do really love speaking because you get to connect immediately with people in the room but when people kind of do it it's just like part of this is my career and here's my oh you know what I hate here my socks this is supposed to be the socks answer um I hate when you go to an artist talk and it's just like they're walking you through their portfolio oh drives me nuts a bit boring unless unless you're representing a part of our industry where the process is really fascinating and you're going to actually give us tutorial and behind the scenes and we're going to see it from idea to sketch to final I have seen some talks like that where I'm like okay this was a portfolio like I could have probably watched this in your case study but it was really compelling and I got to see it on the big screen yeah um but no most of the time just please like be real and I do you want to know what my talk is going to be it's called designing my life off the floor oh so I hurt my back and And the premise is that I suddenly was debilitated and in a lot of pain for a year, but I had to carry on running my business.

12:00Adam J. Kurtz:And at the same time, AI was kicking off big time. And I found that it was my friend, but also my foe. And it was about navigating, recovering from a back injury whilst learning these new tools, whilst realizing it was disrupting the business I had built for 16 years, which had also broken my back. realizing that in order to survive the next five years I needed to reinvent myself and the business and then I reinvented myself my health got better built the business and had my best ever year and I ran my business from the floor mostly I love that is that interesting that's going to I think that in the right place at the right time when someone hears you say that in the you know someone sitting in the room with you I think that would be completely transformative potentially hopefully Especially because everybody in design has a bad back.

12:49So you're speaking to a very specific and relatable ailment. Yeah, no, but you're going to be speaking exactly to the right people.

12:59Adam J. Kurtz:Good. And God, what an incredible accomplishment too. Best year after all that. Yeah, exactly. And it's just hopefully of value. I think that's what I want to make sure. If I do a talk, it's got to give something and make people think, oh well you know i want to end the talk and say something like you know if your whole life was taken away from you for a year what would you do differently next time you know that kind of thing yeah it's a wonderful thought exercise so now then yeah give people something to to hold on to at the end um and then that's that's kind of what they remember and take from it yeah i think i think a lot of people just forget that a talk is supposed to deliver a message yes yeah in the design conference setting I think a lot of people forget that part because it's designers or artists it's not public speakers public speaking is is its own thing oh it is a different art yeah it's a complete skill it's a complete skill did you did you find you got better over years did you sort of like oh so much better my first talk was it was very fun but it was a disaster it was really fun the slides are crazy the slide it's like a very met anyway after the the guy who invited me to give a talk gave me some really tactile advice, including it's good to have a core point that people can believe with.

14:19And I was like, oh, that's a great idea. And I should have a point.

14:23Adam J. Kurtz:I'm going to write this down. Have a point. My original talk was the first talk I ever gave was called What I Am Trying to Say to You. And so even in that, it was clear that, you know, it was like a talk about talks. Yeah. I was doing too much. I'm sure it was enjoyable. for me no i don't know we we grow and we learn i think that a lot of people a lot of designers don't need to be public speakers no and if you're doing it because you think it is good money or good for your business that is most likely not the case there was a very big collective sigh of relief across the planet then i hope so i think just because someone on the internet is doing it It doesn't mean you should.

15:08It's like, it turns out I enjoy and I'm good at public speaking. I do not enjoy and I'm not good at 3D animation. Tried it. Not good at it. Not for me.

15:19Adam J. Kurtz:There are plenty of successful people out there who we've never heard of. Now, what's a project you said yes to and immediately regretted? There are several different things that come to mind. But I think one project that I always think about is a publishing project I did over 10 years ago now. And I just never really liked it. I didn't like it while I was working on it. I didn't like the editing process. I didn't like the final product. And I still don't like it. And it's nobody's fault. It's not the publisher's fault. This wasn't my mate. This wasn't Penguin. This was another publisher I worked with.

15:56The editor was great. The design lead was great. I actually learned a lot in that process about publication design and preparing production files. I really, I learned a lot, but I don't like the work. I didn't like it then. I don't like it now. And yet that particular release meant a lot to the people that it meant a lot to. It did sell 5 ,000 copies. When it was going out of print, I remember someone emailed me and was like, this is my favorite and I want more copies. Wow. And I mailed them like five, like my last five copies. And recently, maybe last month in the shop, a customer came in who she's been in a few times before.

16:39She was like, I have this thing of yours and I bought this 10 years ago and she brought it in and I signed it for her. She was like, I had this way before I knew who you were. I don't even know where I got this. And I was like, oh, it's that thing I hate. but she loves it and so I was just like Adam stop being a fucking asshole like yes to someone else you know it is a wonderful thing that took on its own meaning and was emotionally significant

17:07Adam J. Kurtz:for any number of reasons thank god you couldn't see your frown lines you know when you when she entered the shop oh she could and she'd clock them too she's mean oh my god she's not listening to this so it's fine but yeah she's she's kind of nuts actually you've got a stalker no no no I not at all she doesn't give a fuck about me um she's she's a big personality and and very somewhere between a customer and a friend you know it's which we have a lot of those but she comes in and it's very like I'm here and I'm like hello um anyway hashtag protect the dolls we love yes do you know my friend my friend opened a shop in um stockport david cedric and uh he said people would just go in they would not know what it was it was kind of like a gallery but somewhere he could also work from and they would just come in and it transpired after a while that these people were just you know quite lonely or curious or just wanted a conversation so a lot of his day was disrupted by these lovely people coming in and just saying so what's this then yeah if you knew david he was delighted for the interruption sorry dave i think it's so sweet though that's the kind of person who should have a shop you know we we put benches in with cushions and we put like a lending light you know you can you He can come in and sit and read and you don't have to buy anything.

18:39And we do have regulars that just come in and hang out. There's a bus stop at the other end of the block. So sometimes people come in and buy an ice cream and sit until the bus comes. Oh, that's so cute. You know, we really do have like our cast of characters. There's one homeless woman who comes in. Her name's Allison. And we sell like penny candy. You know, like, she just comes in and tries different candy. And we try to sneak her free stuff, but she won't really accept it. I just gave her a deck of cards the other day. She was like, I can't accept this. I was like, don't worry. I made it. It's garbage.

19:15She took it. So, you know, I really, I enjoy that. You never know who's going to come in. But it's when people walk right into the back office, I'm like, okay, girl, like, calm down. That's, I have my headphones on. You know, like, I'm clearly at work. You can talk to everyone else this year.

19:33Adam J. Kurtz:Yes. yeah the book but it is really it's really yeah oh the if i see even airpods i'm like okay maybe you can wave if someone has a big over ear sort of in the dj booth kind of shit i'm like that's a that's like a do not disturb for the brain yes it's a good good tip that good tip i feel like i'm just talking shit about yuri for like 10 minutes yuri if you ever listen to this i'm so sorry you're always welcome in the shop and thank you for supporting that one project that i don't really love very much it's british humor she she understands you're just being funny yeah she'll get it she will no she she can dish it as well as she can take it it's actually really fun to to meet people in the world who totally get it and get you and yes can play well like i said you're an honorary brit because the way i address my friends particularly my male friends that you know i i don't know if i can repeat on this podcast um but i will say probably you can i'm i'm thinking it's your podcast it'll be things like how you doing your massive ball sack and then i'll just put a love emoji that's lovely ball sack you can say both of those words on television without getting censored yeah and one of my friends um is dating a beautiful woman from hong kong and she teaches us rude words so now i call now i text him and say hello you massive chondai what is that testicles oh that that is just that's a scientific word it's just amazing this is educational when i go around the flat it's the first thing i shout chandai if you're just tuning in um we're listening to katie's rude words podcast what katie calls her best friends yes you're lucky that she's not friends with you but the bigger the insult the more you love them right that's that's the way i see it anyway something like that yeah yeah it's all good it's all good right so what's a few testicles between friends well that's what i think you know i think it's it's perfectly it's perfectly acceptable behavior everybody's happy nobody gets nobody gets hurt um yeah it's it's it's a very kind of british thing and when you first do it there's always that dreaded feeling that they're not going to get it and they're going to be massively insulted but then when they send back something terrifyingly 10 times worse you're just your heart just soars you're like oh my god this is a friend for life yes next next layer of friendship has been unlocked absolutely now if you could steal one skill from another creative discipline overnight what would it be oh if I could draw that would be sick like if I if I could draw the thing is I do draw and I I'm paid to draw and I have my own sort of like little universe of little doodles that I in my in my mind refer to as my mixed feelings but to be honest I just don't I don't practice I didn't study draw I I know so many talented artists in so many disciplines.

22:44When I see what a true illustrator can do on a napkin without trying, it's incredible. But then there it is. It's not that they're not trying, it's that they've been trying their whole lives. And that work is a product of learning how to look and learning how to iterate and understanding perspective and line quality and to find a style and all these things. And I just, I am such a graphic designer, actually. You know, that is my background that is the lens through which I look at things and dissect things and create things and so getting really deep into illustration and honing that as a craft is just something I never did but in those moments when I am working on an illustration project in those moments when I am working on an illustration project I am like fuck why am I not better at this you know oh this would be so much easier and then I you know just kind of fake it and and it ends up being okay well there

23:42Adam J. Kurtz:you go that was not something I was expecting to hear definitely not I'm working on um so I'm working on a new book right now but I'm also working on another project that it's way too early to talk about because what if I just like don't do it but theoretically this project involves a lot of illustration and I'm excited about it and I'm excited about making new types of things but oh that's going to be a lot of work that's going to be tough well good luck with that thanks thanks ball sack so all right you masipari testicle love it oh and you've only got one there is something there is something about like a big testicle see it coming for you down the street bouncing who's your creative hero past or present and what have they taught you without even knowing it?

24:31I think she does know it. I think that this person totally knows it. This is a boss I had. When I was a student, I worked at the university photocopy print center. I mentioned it earlier. And my boss, Laura, was really an excellent mentor in helping me figure out, you know, the process of doing things and creating and making things didn't ever try to like, get me to calm down because I was kind of a lot in my late teens, early 20s as I was figuring out how to be alive. She really created a work environment where all of her little weirdo creative freaks could learn and make things and steal paper and just have these fun little projects.

25:22I learned so much from that job as much as, if not more than what I learned in my actual design coursework. And I use those tools and skills all the time to this day. The reason that so much of my work is bright yellow, including my first book, is because at the copy center, we had more yellow cardstock than any other color. Yellow was the school's official color. And And that's just what I could steal the most of without being caught out. And so it carried through into my work to this day. I happen to enjoy the color yellow. But anyway, thank you, Laura, for your sort of intentional mentorship and the way that you led by example and the way that you allowed me and others to kind of fuck up and figure out as we go.

26:10I'm always now thinking about her as I think about being a good boss and, you know, having employees and working on creative projects that invite or invite and allow you know other people to do that that work and just try to like nurture and guide them and oh if I could be half as good as she is that would be awesome I might feel like I really did something good and accomplished a goal

26:34Adam J. Kurtz:yeah so Apova asked what is the smallest decision you've made that's had the biggest impact on your work? Oh, that's a great question. I think doing everything in pencil, truly. I think somewhere 10, 12 years ago, you know, I was using all sorts of tools and I had this feeling that if I do everything in pencil, then the line quality will be even more inconsistent and it will be even more tangibly human and so obviously real and have, you know, even grittier edge. And I thought this was so important in hitting home you know so clearly that that my work is born from a real person not just tonally not just in voice but also literally in the line you can see my hand you can see when I'm in the zone you can see when I start to cramp up you can see when I have freshly sharpened the pencil yeah I switched to pencil and it has defined my work I think in a really beautiful way that's beautiful and gosh I'm speechless it's not often people leave me speechless I was beautifully put do you have an equally lovely question for the next guest Adam yes I think I do my question is two parts so the first question is what would you do if I gave you 150 US dollars today okay and I think it's a nice question because we often talk about like what would you do with a hundred thousand dollars it's like well what would you do today with 150 dollars and i would be so curious and then after they answer um tell them that i'll venmo them 150 dollars so whoever whoever it is um i'll send them on whoever is the next guest um after they answer i would like to send them 150 dollars so that they can go and do whatever that thing is adam you veritable spotty hairy dick this has been wonderful this has been amazing thank you for your time thank you so much for having me you're a huge asshole

28:40Adam J. Kurtz:thanks to adobe acrobat studio for sponsoring this episode head to the link in the show notes to find out more