The Spark: Fiona McGarva on Rituals, Rockets & Reinvention

0:03Katy Cowan:Welcome back to The Spark and today we're catching up with Fiona McGarva, publicist, event director and founder of Sunday Communications in Manchester. Now in Monday's episode we talked about how communications is changing, Fiona's incredible work with Shangri-La at Glastonbury and what they did differently this year and what it means to throw out the rulebook and start again. If you've not yet listened to that, do go onto the Creative Boom website, creativeboom.com forward slash podcast to catch up. But now it's time to get to know Fiona a little better with a few questions that range from the playful to the profound.

0:41Katy Cowan:Expect thoughtful reflections, some creative curveballs and plenty of heart.

0:49Katy Cowan:This season of the Creative Boom podcast is brought to you by the School of Communication Arts, which has just launched its SEA online portfolio, a brand new fully online course designed to help more people break into the creative industries. Find out more at schoolcommunicationarts.com and to enjoy a£500 discount, use our special code BOOM500 at checkout. So we are here to have a little fun. It's a chance to get to know the person behind the sort of, you know a main chat that we had although we saw brilliant flashes i'm gonna sort of grill you now with some questions that you've chosen so i'm not being cruel just to establish you've actually chosen these so this is good and we're just gonna go through them and we're gonna hopefully find out a bit more about you fiona mcgarver i like saying that just to unnerve my guests i'll just say their full names just to be ridiculous i love i love using my full name like I'm into it it's a good name it's a great name it's a fabulous name yeah okay so what is something you believed about creativity five years ago that you don't anymore oh yes so um probably that it was all about talent and the end result and I actually think creativity is a process and a mindset now and I think that more and more um and I think I have been surrounded by so many wildly successful creative people that it's a bit intimidating.

2:20You're kind of a bit like, I'm not creative. I'm just going to tell everybody about those people. When in actual fact, I think almost lockdown as well, it's like people were just doing stuff and they might be like, you know, technically a bit rubbish at it, but they were having a great time. They were doing it. The process was helping them. Like, and it's like, I started thinking about things a bit differently and I'm writing a book. I did not start doing it in lockdown. Should have done that, had more time. well actually maybe I didn't but anyway it's um it wasn't really about that but it did make me think well I can do that like you know and it doesn't matter if it's not a wild success like the process is enough like and then obviously now I've barely finished it now I want to publish my book but like the process is still enough like it was um for me doing that was very much about having something that I did for me and it wasn't something that I did for somebody else so yeah

3:12Katy Cowan:it's a process yeah the pandemic leveled a lot of things didn't it kind of took away a lot of that perfectionism and you've got to have this first before you do that and almost maybe um maybe it's because if you're really really if you're too good it's going to turn into a job yeah probably like how do you get to keep it for yourself like because that is your if that's your outlet you know and that is then your job then those things are complicated those the complicated emotions to reconcile i think and having met lots and lots and lots of like artists and designers and um lots of those sorts of people i people find it hard yeah yeah it's fun yeah it's fun in the process and the messiness and the kind of mistakes and the lessons yes 100 with that in mind what's the best lesson you've learned from someone you've worked with to take a minute just right so you go into a situation and you've got all these brilliant ideas you're like oh my god and look what you're doing well maybe if we did it this way and it's like no just sit back get the lay of the land before you start steaming in with anything because if you don't understand then you can't contribute effectively you're just shouting your opinions and that's not helpful and also they won't like it that is wise who taught who taught you that I kind of learned it the hard way.

4:34Katy Cowan:You're not saying you're a bull in a china shop, are you? No, I think I've got a tendency to get excited about things. And sometimes, you know, maybe if you wait, you'll have a better idea or like you, it might be the same idea, but you'll articulate it better. And also just to really understand people, though, before you start trying to kind of tell their story or impact on their process, because people are the most important thing. Yeah. Fiona, not many people look in the mirror. what are you uh what are you smoking in those green fields

5:09Katy Cowan:it's good though it's good because not many people do and I think you have to just check in with your ego all the time don't you and yeah it was um it was when I started basically that happened when I started a new job and you know you you go in you've got all these bright ideas and I think particularly if you go into a kind of big organisation or like an organisation that's got its own culture like you have to understand that before you impart your wisdom or your enthusiasm because you might be wrong and also I think like setting yourself to somebody else's rhythm is really important like when you meet someone and like I might be working with them for the first time some people are a mile a minute and they respond to you kind of reacting with that and some people need you to be calmer and I think that's important too um because it's a big part of communication yeah no it's a clever lesson it's a good one to remember I love it um you are though a bundle of energy so I'm quite curious about this next question what's your favorite time of day to create and why?

6:14I at five o 'clock in the morning I don't get up at five every day my husband would like be commenting on the internet if I said I did but I try like I try to when I'm when I'm doing something and I need it's the peace because I work in comms like there are so many people communicating on loads of different platforms there's emails and there's texts and there's you know it's like oh my god it's a trauma and like we need to solve this problem immediately and it's like hang on it's and it gets in your head like if you want to say for instance I want to write if it whether that be a proposal whether that be my own writing whatever it is if I can do it in those hours are mine like there is nobody else around like they belong to me and no one is talking to me and whatever I do within that time is mine and I might choose to do nothing but it has been the odd occasion I've got because I just wake up at five I don't like you know I'm not setting an alarm to like yeah get myself up it's like it's not a sort of high pressure situation it's more that I'm awake I might as well get up but maybe

7:13Katy Cowan:I just want to sit here quietly for a bit I can picture you looking out the window just as the sort of you know sudden starts to yeah right in the sky and there's a mist over the garden yeah rooftops I mean sorry I'm being quite romantic and poetic here but I can imagine you It's exactly how it is. I'm not just in my pyjamas for the company. Oh, no, you're in my imagination. You're in a silk gown. That's exactly true. I completely am doing that. That's exactly how I am at all times. Hope so. Not like me wearing like, you know, four day old yoga pants and an old T-shirt that I got free from a foundry, from a type foundry.

7:52I do think it's important to claim your own time, though. I think especially whatever industry you work in or like if you've got lots of family commitments or whatever it might be, like claiming a bit of time for yourself and whether you want to use that to work or write or whatever you want to use it for, just having it, I think is really important. And that never occurred to me until relatively recently, which is foolish, probably.

8:18Katy Cowan:I get out, I get up immediately, leave the house, put my walking gear on and go out. And if it's five in the morning, it's amazing because it's just so peaceful. Exactly. It's the peace. And the sky is amazing. Yeah. Anyway. I'm going to do that, I'm going to set my alarm tomorrow and get up early What I do is I just don't shut the curtains and just get woken Oh, very hippie, I love that Shangri-La's definitely got into your head I love that What are you secretly really good at? This is really silly I like silly So I'm really secretly good at you You know that game, Matching Pairs Where there's like there's two of everything and they're all covered up with a little thing.

9:00I always know where they are, which is weird because, like, I'm aphantasic, so I've got no pictures in my mind. So it's more I'm not thinking about it. It's a knowing. I don't know. I just know. It's weird. It's a really strange thing, and I've always been really good at it, and I didn't always know that other people had pictures in their minds. I only found this out very recently.

9:20Katy Cowan:You have no pictures in your mind? No, so, you know, when you, like, imagine something and you picture it. Yes. I'm not doing that. like oh no I feel really awful for saying I imagined you sitting by the window and looking out I feel really insensitive I mean I can sort of like I do imagine stuff but it's not a picture I just sort of know about it it's really hard to explain yeah like I don't have like a monologue like it's quite quiet up here it's really black it's like completely black how on earth are you writing a book then that's amazing I don't know yeah it's a good question um everything in there um probably shouldn't say this is very real like um so if I need to describe a certain house I will look it up on right move if you know so I need to I mean I can just make it up but it probably wouldn't make sense because there's no picture pulling it all together your creative process then is way more complicated than everybody else's yeah but I've read a lot of books I don't know I've read a lot of books I didn't know I just didn't know people were doing it differently so I don't think it's like changed anything about me but how do I know where the matching pairs are that's what I want to know that is just bizarre well I was really thinking about it so it's like you guys are like so we had a conversation with somebody about it so like you're imagine I know that's what John said like John my husband you can make loads of money that's literally what he said straight away he was like we could make money because we played this game with some people and I had all the pairs it's like how are you doing this I don't know that's magic it's like it's magic isn't it you should start the way your brain works i find really fascinating everyone's works differently completely differently you should have your own sort of stage at shangri-la and just mystic just too much mystic fiona yeah definitely i'd love that i think that'd be amazing i think you'd smash that it'd be great what song oh god i hate this question what song would you like to be played at your funeral so i was thinking about this and i really and i have thought about it before so it's quite an easy question because like I really really want to go out with a bang like I would like to be shot out of a rocket you know like I think not as it like I think probably cremated first they're shot out of a rocket and I think I'd like like with some party peepers I'd like a gospel choir I'd like them just seeing spirit in the sky spirit in the sky wow does everybody in the choir have to wear spandex um I think I'll I mean I'll have to start like specifying because like um you're gonna pr your own funeral yeah so i've said it now none of my family can get out of this if anything happens to me this this has to occur oh fiona i don't like thinking about stuff like that i don't but you asked the question well you chose it oh yeah i did i know um like it was um hunter s thompson wasn't it like johnny depp like paid like millions of pounds famously to shoot him out of a cannon because um because that's what he said he wanted and I was like you know what I don't know if that's what I was supposed to take from that story but I was like yeah I want that that'd be good fun yeah or a viking send-off that would be pretty cool yeah everybody you love firing a an arrow I just want something fun to happen I think it you know it's a celebration I think it should be yeah go out go out of the brain you don't want people to be sad you want people to remember why you're so um crazy i would definitely have something funny put on my um gravestone oh yeah there's some really good epitaphs out there yeah i'd really think about it oh yeah i'd really think about it yeah but really i'm kind of a bit weird i think i'd just have my ashes flushed down the toilet but there you go this isn't about me i mean those are we've got very different perspectives than that i just think that's why it's an interesting question it's such an interesting question i i I don't want a funeral because I'm not going to be around to sort of like make everybody laugh.

13:12Exactly.

13:13Katy Cowan:I'm not going to be there. So what's the point? Well, yeah, exactly that. I don't want to miss out on a party. I don't want to get FOMO. No, no, no, no, no, absolutely not. But if there is an afterlife and you can come back for a bit as a ghost, it would be so fun hanging around your funeral and haunting people, you know, just throwing off a hat, blowing in their ears. I'd love to do a bit of haunting. I'd like to do a little bit of haunting. who would you go back and haunt we can't tell them then they'll know

13:45Katy Cowan:what is something totally irrational that gives you comfort getting dressed for a phone call do you do that does anyone else do that absolutely yeah because I want to feel glam yeah but even though it's on the phone and like I love how you went like that the phone make the symbol second time this uh season somebody's done that really yeah it's um i think it's a mindset isn't it and i think i don't think it's actually that irrational because it's um there's a psychology there and like you know i always get dressed for work no matter whether i'm going to work or not and i know that not everyone does that but for me it makes me that's that's I'm a work person now yes so I've got professional good separation yeah and it's um yeah and I think some of it does come from like working like when I worked to Hollyoaks like I never knew if I was going to London that day or to a party or like you know things would just happen so it's always ready ready for anything ready for anything but um but just yeah also it just makes I just feel like if you've got good outfit on I feel like I'm better at my job if I wearing a good outfit.

14:56Katy Cowan:Yeah, I think I agree. It's a mindset. It's also a form of communication. Like, you know, sort of, you know, who are you going to be today? Yeah. We get to dress up every day. It's great. Yeah. And I love that. And I suppose it's not irrational, but I think others might consider it irrational, but I consider it a very logical step. Well, I never liked the pyjama thing from the pandemic. It wasn't for me. I had my shoes on on Zoom. Oh, I've got them on now. even yeah even if i were even last year when i was in so much pain i couldn't get off the floor i would put my makeup on on the floor even if it took me two hours because i just had to be it just feels i don't know and i get it it's very much a thing about like i do dress for me and you know you put makeup on for yourself don't you and it's not it's not for other people and i think that's the whole thing about the male gaze that we don't need to get into right now because it's not for other people i feel like i need to have a sort of you know dramatic the male gaze yeah exactly but it's like it's nothing to do with you mate it's like we dress for ourselves and sometimes for other women yeah absolutely but for yeah for fun as much as anything yeah we want to be part of something it's nice we get to reinvent ourselves every every morning you know what are we going to be today it's like yeah plain dress up it's fab 100 % except you know I've just reached for another grey or white t-shirt and a pair of comfy balloon jeans I think you're a little bit more creative than me when it comes to well it's yeah it depends what day it is but um yeah sometimes well I'd love to know that you've got some old yoga pants as well that would make me very comfortable indeed but uh what is the oldest thing you own and why do you still have it right don't laugh okay right she's really sensitive about her looks this is miffy oh right oh she's so gorgeous oh i would never laugh at somebody's cuddly toy my mum told me this was miffy and I think like Dick Booner might have something to say about that but she's look how loved she is and like she's like oh my grandma like like who's no longer with us she's sewed these eyes and nose and mouth on for me like the ears have been off so many times she's got no fur oh she's been loved beyond her dreams exactly that like it's not all and it kind of like I will obviously never like Like, this is going nowhere.

17:28But it's like, it doesn't have to be perfect to be beautiful. And it's like, I think that's a really important thing to remind yourself of. And also, yeah, it's not miffy. And like, and I'm sorry to the miffy people, but like, it doesn't matter, does it?

17:41Katy Cowan:It doesn't matter. Was it love? Did it give you comfort during times of sadness? Well, true love. Yeah, look at that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we all have our little cuddly teddy bears. And she's just here in the office with me at all times. like tom tom's got his first ever teddy it's on a shelf in his office i think they said this is and he's a software developer fiona he's very you know very very seriously sensible married a nutcase yeah oh well my my husband's obviously well not obviously my husband's a graphic designer and he collects all of this stuff and it's all pristine and then this is what i've got well i love it the the little face looks so earnest and true i don't think it was intentional but she just looks a bit sassy with her mouth off to the side.

18:29Katy Cowan:Oh, I do that now and again. Oh, well, where do we find ourselves today? Does she, if you had a voice for Miffy, would it be gentle and soft or would it be kind of sassy? So this is something else. Like I don't have voices in my head, so I didn't know the people were doing them. So I'd have to do it out loud. I don't think I ever have. I don't know. I'm pretty sure I've had a lot of conversations, but I think they were more like psychic communications. just don't take miffy to the supermarket now and start talking to you know doing funny voices with no people might sort of step away slowly they might they might know i won't do that stood next to the saxumas saying oh they look like nice little treats should we get some yeah sure if i do it's gonna be your fault i well i did that i always gave my little toys voices yeah maybe I don't remember I still do this thing so I've got um I've got Paddington Bear there which was my auntie Veronica's um my mum's sister very special she's no longer with us but I cannot if I put him anywhere there or on a bed or I have to make him comfortable yeah of course and I have to tuck him in and I have to say there you go you'll be all right there Tom thinks I'm mad you'll be you arrive there no if you put teddy on the bed you have to tuck them in tuck them in make sure they're comfortable i'm going on holiday now for two weeks i'll see you soon okay yeah i mean i i've got a real problem with like a personification of items like you know and like and then once i've done it you can't undo it it's done like so you become really emotionally attached to these things and it's like why and it's i don't know what i've done here but it's happening now well look at look at the creative boom eyes you know I've attached myself to those that they've got a kind of cheeky yeah they don't need to say anything but they've got this kind of cheekiness to them yeah I love that just oh always looking at me don't judge me don't judge me crack on crack on oh I love this question but now it makes me nervous because have I used this at all throughout our conversation which word gets on your nerves the most right okay it's not the word itself but I hate well you know when people in an email they say I'm sending this to yourself and it's like instead of you like and it's because like it's not the person that's doing it it's obviously a grammar shit show but because but it's the reason why people you know when people trying to be more official or like try and be more like business like it's like why why is this happening like why do people feel the need to try and do this because why are the things that you're saying not enough like and I feel really strongly about that like it's like you know I think having a northern accent sometimes in like tv or like you know why are the things I'm saying not enough why are we trying to pretend to be a person that we're not yeah and and that's why you know you're saying something that doesn't come naturally to you because you think that that's going to give off something that's going to make people take you more seriously or whatever reason it is it's not right it's not it's grammatically incorrect just tell it how it is well this is my opportunity to tell you how it is because you can't tell people one-on-one can you no you can't you can't awkward and it's not them individually it's the whole concept yeah you get it though because creative industry can take itself very seriously so you understand why people get sort of sucked into that kind of mindset of oh we have to be this certain way no conversation it's like yeah and I truly believe that like in every conversation that I have and I think that is I don't care anymore or maybe I always did this but I I will just say it my way and um you know and hope that like my years of experience and successes that I've had are the thing that make people believe me and not and not not my accent or whether i've used some weird business speak i would like to think just so you know just just sending you an email just oh so annoying don't use just i know we could give loads of pr tips couldn't we but definitely we don't we don't want to bore people now we have a question from our previous guest um which was kenny gravelis um excellent human being who is an east london lad um currently based over in la runs his own agency for the last 25 years amazing he was very very generous asked a lovely question um which is great because he He was asked, oh, he was asked, what is the most shameful, trashy obsession you have?

23:16That's a good one.

23:17Katy Cowan:It is a good one. It is a good one. And he answered it very well. What job would you pay to do? TV detective. Oh, TV detective, straight in there. Yeah. Yeah, I want to be a TV detective. What, like a star, like Sherlock Holmes? No, no, not Sherlock Holmes. More like Angela Lansbury. Oh, yes. In Murder, She Wrote. Jessica I want to be Jessica Fletcher or like Columbo like Columbo's one of my favourite TV detectives it's the underestimated isn't it and then they pow yeah pow yeah and also I want to you know I love the way that Jessica Fletcher goes on the book tours and like she's solving crimes while she's there she's multitasking like you know some people suspect that she was killing the people I don't mind that if that's the case then more power to you because you've got loads of it and yeah I just want to solve some crimes um I'd really enjoy that so when I do sell my book and I do go on my book tour I also will be solving crimes along the way should anyone want to pick that up as a tv show then I'm available amazing that's your next career then I think Kenny I think Kenny might have meant what client what would be a dream client but I think we'll let you off I think he'd be happy with that I mean the thing is what you have to kind of the client you know as a detective you detected my clients would be the poor victims of the crime so let's not overlook them but also you know as we discuss careers are not linear why does my career he's putting me in a box he's putting you in a box don't put off your own okay don't put her in a box yeah i mean it's a good egg i think sometimes they're the clients that turn you know the dream clients you don't know that they're your dream clients until you find them like um there's one people I've always wanted to work with and I've won it and I'm like oh my god it's awful we're not naming names no but I think industries as well like you know I've done lots of work in film and it's like you work some you know I've done some stuff at quite a high level and you discover that it's it's it's not always a nice environment because it's very high pressure and people take things very very seriously but then on the other side of it I got you know I did the Chanel show and like you've got to see like if you've got unlimited funds oh my goodness like they don't see anything as going too far like you know every inch is like discussed and like debated and thought about and spent money on if needs be and I thought that was really interesting to see because everyone's lovely but why wouldn't you be because there's no limit yeah well you've kind of already had the dream client then in that case well I don't know the tv detective tv detective You're the next Angela Lansbury.

26:03Katy Cowan:It's coming back. It's coming to BBC near you soon. Have you watched Poker Face? Yes. That's basically like Columbo. She's brilliant. It's the same vibe. It's amazing. Like that's, yeah, she's got my dream job. Do you know what as well? Is she somebody else that's had a career later on in life? I think she's always been acting, but she's had lots of ups and downs for sure. Like she's had. amazing yeah she's had she's had um yes and she's kind of almost had not a renaissance but she's kind of she was she was a child star as well like she was i can't remember what she was on but she was a child star and then she's had some troubles along the way i think she's had some addiction issues and then and it came out the other side and i think she was in orange is the new black and then it kind of went from there yes she was she's having a huge moment i suppose that bit older rather than like maybe when she's 25 god she's been in loads of stuff i'm just looking at now yeah i just yeah i love her too yeah love it there's never an end to what we can do um exactly now you can have your moment and you can get your own back what question do you have for our next guest this is tricky because it was really similar to the question i got asked that's not handy no it's not handy is it um so i just one moment caller and while she decides i'm just going to sort of remark on some of the films that um the lovely natasha leon has been in she's an american actress and writer um she's a comedian director and producer started her career as a teen actress before expanding her career taking on mature roles in film and television hashtag wikipedia are you ready yes oh go on then do you have a creative outlet that you're not very good at so I think like we talked earlier about like hobbies and like it's about the process and sometimes it's quite nice not to be exceptional at your hobby because then it becomes something that you feel like you have to do for cash it's like have you got something that you do that, yeah, that you're not exceptional at and you do for the love or the fun or the process.

28:21Katy Cowan:This is going to be interesting because I think, because we're nearing the end of this season, sadly, with a short break over summer and then we'll be back. The next person that we're having on as a guest is James Greenfield of Koto. So that will be an interesting one. Yeah, let's see. Let's see. Well, thank you so much for your time, Fiona. This has been amazing. And good luck with Glastonbury. I'm sure it'll be amazing as always. Thank you.

28:53Katy Cowan:Thank you for listening to The Spark. And a big thank you once again to this week's guest, Fiona McGarver, for being such a joy to chat to. Thanks also to our season sponsor, the School of Communication Arts, for supporting the Creative Boom podcast. If you've enjoyed this week's episodes, don't forget to subscribe at creativeboom.com forward slash podcast. or find us wherever you get your fix. We'll be back on Monday with a brand new guest, the last of this season. So until then, take care and have a great weekend.