The Spark: Haraldur Thorleifsson on Impulsive Adventures, Inner Critics & Dream Guests

0:05Katy Cowan:I'm back with the wonderful Harley and we're going to have some fun now, Harley. Are you ready for this? Mm-hmm. I always say this to my guests when we do the spark and they're always slightly terrified. We start off by asking you a few questions just to sort of get to know you a bit more as a person. and then we finish with a question from the previous guest and then you will ask a question to the next guest so that's quite a nice little chain thing that we've got going on okay so let's crack on uh when did you last feel completely out your depth and what happened next i built a restaurant and it had been something that i i had wanted to do for a long time uh i'd always wanted to create a space and it was dedicated to my mother who I lost when I was young and it was it was a really ambitious project and then as we were building it I kind of realized that I had made a mistake you know we were really far I really liked enjoying it I really liked creating the concept but the building process was really tough and then actually running a restaurant is a nightmare.

1:16I pushed on and I pushed on for longer than I should. And it was one of those things because I've always felt that I sort of defined myself by not giving up. And so I just kept going, even though I wasn't enjoying it, even though I wasn't able to spend the time that that it needed for me to make it work um and so it was ultimately I I gave up and I closed and it was a huge relief and a huge sort of lesson for me in in learning about myself and realizing um you know there's nothing wrong with with things not working out if if you don't like

2:00Katy Cowan:what you're doing you can always quit yeah exactly and i wouldn't say it was giving up i'd say it's just recognizing it wasn't for you yeah you know whatever you called it and it turned you know eventually it turned into a blessing there was a um you know i still own the space and there was this wonderful chef who came in and he wanted to build his own restaurant and i was able to provide that for him and he's he's a michelin star chef and he built this wonderful place and that now is across the street from me and I can go there every time I want. That's amazing. Is there always a seat for you at the table, you know, overlooking the street?

2:39I don't have a seat for me, but they've never turned me down.

2:46Katy Cowan:That's great. That's lovely. What's a hill you die on when it comes to creative work? Well, die on is a stretch, but in sort of the metaphor of it, I would definitely say that I think that if you're making something, it should make people feel some way. I don't think it's enough to make something that works. I think it's very important when you're, whatever it is that you're making, that you start with or include at least in your process how you want someone to feel when they use it. and that's something I put into everything I do is you know definitely trying to figure out how it works but then maybe even more importantly is how does it make you feel yeah that's a hard thing to do though it is a hard thing to do but it's it's also I think once you get into the habit of that and once you have that sort of solidified I think it actually makes things a lot easier because it makes it easier for you to make decisions along the way because you know what you're what you're trying to accomplish fair enough sounds good I'm just now sat here thinking what how can I make that happen with creative boom and all the other things I do um yeah it's not an easy thing to to get to get to but I think you probably have it you just maybe you don't it's not as top of mind but I'm you know having seen some of the things you do I think I'm pretty sure it's it's there you maybe haven't articulated it.

4:18Katy Cowan:Yes, maybe I need to sort of lean into it a bit more. This is what AI told me the other day, Harley. It said there was a prompt going around that got you to put it in and say, what am I not doing enough of? You know, where am I going wrong? And it was brutal. Was it fair? It was very fair, actually. It said that I hadn't quite discovered yet this thing that I had and I wasn't exploiting it enough. I wasn't realizing its power. And I had to bring myself to the forefront a bit more and be a bit more outspoken and not be so polished and professional, which is kind of my journalism background creeping in.

5:00Katy Cowan:Just be a bit more kind of feisty and opinionated and, you know, screw it if I don't bring in everyone along with me, which is hugely putting myself out of my comfort zone. because I've always been, it's not about me, it's about who I'm interviewing. Do you know what I mean? That's the journalist in me. Are you a people pleaser? I'm a girl, come on, of course I am. But it's being left behind a little bit as I get older, you know, starting to get, going through the angry perimenemors phase where I'm like, what am I doing? Why am I trying to like be everybody's friend? Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

5:37I think that's an important lesson that, you know, sometimes you have left to let some people down to to to be who you are i'm not quite ready to embrace that yet harley

5:48Katy Cowan:let's work on it oh gosh is this good should we do a weekly check-in yeah it's it's tough you know yeah um so what is a small ritual or habit that makes your day better? I try and meditate twice a day and it's surprisingly hard you know it's very easy to waste time and sometimes I feel like I have a lot of time and then but finding those 20 minutes because I try and do 20 minutes twice a day is really hard but when I do it it really makes my life and my day better um and so i try to do it once in the morning and then once before i go to go to bed and it just calms me down and it makes me so much more resilient for whatever comes my way through the day do you have any tricks tips for meditating i do a sort of a version mostly it's sort of a a transcendental meditation so you know if anyone wants to to read up about about that it's a very simple technique and you can do it anywhere so it's not complicated you don't need an app there's nothing really you need except just maybe a quiet room i do the classic imagine a train going in one ear and out the other with lots of compartments carrying all of my thoughts and uh it doesn't it doesn't work most of the time but you know i'll keep trying yeah i mean yeah i mean it doesn't definitely doesn't work all the time for me either it's there's you know there's days even you know when i do it when it or weeks when i feel like i'm not getting there but but then there's weeks when it when it clicks and it and I feel at peace.

7:39Yeah I have that with when I do the ironing you get that kind of focus. Yeah.

7:47Katy Cowan:And my mind just goes blank and I realize actually after doing the ironing I feel amazing. Does that count? Whatever works yeah. It's whatever works okay. What's the most impulsive thing you've ever done while traveling um i i went to um i went to uh iran once and it was we landed in in in tehran and the plan was to stay in tehran for i think two weeks which was you know a big enough leave but we we realized very quickly i think after a night or two that it wasn't it's a very, very hectic city. And it wasn't what, you know, I didn't want to spend more time there. So the impulsive thing is we went and found some guy somehow who drove us across country.

8:40And he was sort of, he went, we went through Shiraz and Isfahan and went to Percipolis. And it was just this you know slightly it was you know it was just a very very enjoyable trip and it was yeah it was it was all spur of the moment and and everything we did during that I think week or 10 days was just winging it in a city that or in a in a country where we didn't speak the language and there was there was nobody we hardly saw any tourists and it was but it was amazing you feel life definitely yeah and and you realize you know you know i think with with places like iran that have been in the news for a long time and sometimes i think you can start to imagine that the people there are somehow different than people elsewhere but you know obviously find that they're the same that it's the same uh they have the same aspirations they have the same needs they the same longings and there's kindness everywhere there is kindness everywhere thank you for um

9:47Katy Cowan:linking it back to the theme of our chat people are not defined by their leaders definitely no definitely not it's a good reminder what's something you'd love to believe in even if it's not real is it santa claus yeah i mean i think there's a lot of things that that that in a lot of stories that are that's that are nice but I for me it's even more fundamental I think because I and you know obviously real is different to people but I my mom was believed in in in sort of a benevolent God and I think it gave her a lot of comfort and I did as a kid and it definitely helped me through hard times but I don't have that faith anymore I don't believe in higher power in that sense but I'd really envy people who do I think there it's it is something that can help people through a lot of hard times and not having that can be extremely hard whereas I think yeah I grew up Catholic and I agree with you I found comfort in it as a child but now I'm not a non-believer and I find comfort in the fact that when this is I mean I may be completely wrong but when it's the end it's just dark and peace and that's the way I see it and so whilst we're here even though there can be a lot of suffering we've got to make the most of it because we're so it's so incredibly crazy that we're even here in the first place you know yeah definitely and that's the side of it that i i look at as well but you know when when things are hard it would be nice to you can believe there was you can believe you can go back to church i i can't i it doesn't yeah i can't as a switch that i can't switch on um logically yeah if your inner critic had a voice and a name this is an interesting one what would it sound like my inner critic had a name I think it would just I mean it is um it's sort of an amalgam it's it's um because I was a kid who um you know had a disability I started using a wheelchair when I was 25 and I I had a walk that was different to other people um and so I was always afraid of of someone sort of pointing at me or laughing at me or making fun of me.

12:30So there's definitely these voices in my head that always, you know, as I'm, you know, even still now with, you know, being almost 50 and having done and accomplished a fair amount of things, there's still these voices in my head that are, you know, as I'm working on something that are just pointing at it and sort of saying, like, that's not good enough. and so yeah I'm not sure what name I would give it but it definitely it has it's sort of these shrieks in my head that I I could I can sort of almost hear I hope it's not Cartman I uh no it's not Cartman um I think a carpenter is quite funny although he can

13:18Katy Cowan:bit of a dick yeah we all have the voices we should you know just i talk back to mine i say shut up shut up you know you know nothing well you're gonna have a dinner now and you're welcome to invite any guest dead or alive who would that be dream dinner guest nick cave would definitely be on the list um i think he is i mean apart from his music i've just really enjoyed. He has gone through a lot of personal loss. He lost two of his sons, and he's turned that sadness and pain into something really beautiful. He writes and has a community of people who have lost. And I went to see him. He came to Iceland last year, and I went to see him.

14:10And just the tranquility of him, I feel like there was endless wisdom flowing out of him so i think i would want to spend more time with him that's lovely and i've

14:19Katy Cowan:never had a nick cave as a dream dinner guest yeah so that's good yeah he would be nice to see yeah i think so you know i think he's sort of a no bullshit but still kind person well this is the thing with loss and with hardship it does kind of it kind of give you that gift of empathy and compassion and kindness yeah okay i need you to open up your phone and tell me what's the most recent photo on there what is the most recent photo on my phone hold on and i hope it's not something you only send to your wife no actually it's a it's a screenshot of a tweet that i sent to a friend of mine last night.

15:08He is a musician. He makes a lot of electronic music and it's a nun that's playing a synth.

15:17Katy Cowan:Right. And the caption is, forgive me father for I have synth. Humor is a wonderful gift, isn't it? Yeah. Do you laugh a lot? I can imagine you do. Yeah, I try to. Yeah. You've started a lovely podcast as well, haven't you, recently? Walk with me. Yeah, it's called Let's Walk. And I recently got a new wheelchair and it has made my life very different to what it was before. I'm much more mobile, but it's also, it is a trick. And I can raise myself to be at eye level with people. Yeah. And so I started doing long walks with creative people and it has been just really enjoyable. It started in Iceland and recently launched it in English as well.

16:12Katy Cowan:That's fantastic. An all-terrain vehicle. I know the one. It's when my friend Paul got his, he wanted us to get a fog machine so that he could, when he raised it up, he could just sort of go like that like a god that's a good idea i'll take that oh bless him yeah he is funny um okay so now we have a question from our previous guest who was paul benny um founder of co-founder of the magazine uh jockey slut and now um disco pogo and he was also one of the founders of Bugged Out, which is a very popular club night here in the UK. He wanted to know, what was the first book that you read that you really felt changed you as a person?

17:06Yeah, I don't have to think about this one because it's a very clear memory. It was, my dad read it to me and he would read to me before I went to sleep

17:17Katy Cowan:and this was the first book I remember are just really touching me. It was a book called The Lionheart Brothers. I think it's called in English. It's by Astrid Lindgren. It's a tale of two brothers who, this is not a spoiler because they die in kind of the beginning and they go to another place and they have to overcome a lot of obstacles. And I think it's, you know, a pretty transformative, you know, I've noticed this when I, when I'm, when I'm reading or, or watching a movie or something or seeing it in real life is that the thing that always brings tears to my eyes is kindness. And the, I think it maybe even started in that book because his, there's a younger brother who is sick and, and it's going through a lot and then there's an older brother who is sort of the protector of the two and he just helps and guides him through all these different things and the younger brother feels like a hero by the end and then it just yeah it's a beautiful little book uh it's a children's book but i think it's really really powerful it sounds great i might have to give that a listen or a read And now you have to think of a question for our next guest, Hallie.

18:42Yeah, it's a question I actually ask people a lot. It's a little bit morbid, but I ask people how they want to die. And I think it's important for us to remember that we are going to die. And I think it's good to have an ideal death in mind. I think about why that's how we want to die. and it often leads to people sort of wondering, you know, what are the last things they would do before they die and which then maybe changes the way they live their life now. Is the life you're living now the one you want to have lived when you're on your last breath?

19:21Katy Cowan:It's a very powerful question and I'll put it to our next guest. Is this something that you have faced yourself on many occasions? I have definitely pondered the question, yes. and yeah I've thought about it a lot um and I think it's informed how I live my life because I've thought about those last moments a lot and I I want to make sure that you know to our earlier conversation of you know I don't believe in a second life I don't believe that there is there's more after this so I want to make sure that uh by the end that I that I've done everything that I I wanted to do in the way that I that I intended to do it well thank you so much for your time Hallie it's been really lovely getting to know you thank you so much Katie

20:09Katy Cowan:thanks for listening to the creative boom podcast this week and thanks to Hallie Forlifson for being this week's guest if you enjoyed this episode please do share it with your friends and leave us a review it really helps us out we'll be back on Monday with another guest until then have a great weekend.