The Spark: James Martin on Pasta, Pet Peeves and a Few Unfiltered Truths

0:03Katy:We are back with James Martin, a huge personality and very generous soul. If you caught the episode on Monday, you'll know that we talked about fuck personal branding and fuck visibility. And if you haven't quite caught up, then do go and give it a listen. It's full of nuggets of wisdom and advice. If you're thinking about putting yourself out there. Authentically. Authentically. Yeah. leaning into yourself authentic self yeah oh thank you we just do that for the next 20 minutes just read it reading out all the trigger words no no but i don't think um i don't think people would enjoy that but the thing i found the most hilarious is that every time you were saying oh fucking hell i hate it when it people say authentic self i was like in my little brain was going you know doing a little kind of magic roundabout tune and going oh shit i've written tips articles about that i'm gonna go back and edit them but my i i am not here to be right my my thing is only about perspective change i think that's a big thing about creativity for me is like just looking at things a little bit differently because maybe it just changes like oh yeah maybe that is interesting i don't agree but it's a it's a different way to look at it isn't it i don't need people to agree with me i mean let's have a pretend argument now let's let's fall out about something let's um fuck you yeah no screw you james

1:36Katy:south park gosh god love it brilliant yeah i think that stuff like that is very i'm going to do the kind of power move very important to ensure that we don't take ourselves seriously all the world and that we can laugh at these things because otherwise we'd go insane. I think it should be allowed more indeed. Oh, I do. Yes. Yeah. So what's this thing? Spark. The spark. Yeah. Yeah. Because you've done absolutely zero preparation for James. I don't think anybody knows about this, do they? You're just like, we'll just have a chat and we'll make it up. And that's what we're doing, isn't it? And that's what I do.

2:11Katy:That's a reputation. So I'm good at like turning up to things on time. Yeah. I'm really reliable mate down the pub. I'll be super fun. I'll be dancing on the tables. There's evidence of that coming soon from Motion North. Proof. I'll reenact Beastie Boys music videos. I bring the joy and the fun. You are the energy. I bring the energy, James. I do, but I'm a little bit fly on the seat of my pants. Yeah, but that's wonderful, isn't it? Well, it's just how I operate. It's just how it works. I don't overthink it. My husband is the complete opposite. he's very kind of um considered calm intelligent looks after all the money um knows thinks constantly about what could go wrong i'm just like next to him going yeah you're the eternal optimist i think i mean i don't know you very well but from what i do nerve you i think you come across more of as a realist rather than an optimist oh really interesting can i can i have this in writing and I'll put it in front of my Tom.

3:13Yeah, well, I think, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, just send me his number. I'll text him.

3:16Katy:He'd say, you're a realist, you're a fucking lunatic. Yeah, but you can be a real lunatic. That's not a problem. Well, he wouldn't have married someone stupid. I mean, God, I'm quite a quiet little... No, he obviously saw something in you. You guys have been together for a long time as well. Must have seen something in me, yeah. Yeah. I mean, is he still with you, even though you've got all that grey hair now that your hairdresser said? Do you know what I mean? I know. And do you know what? He was amazing when I was on the floor for a year. He was absolutely incredible. He did cute little things like reenact pubs because I missed the pub so much.

3:48Katy:You know, a cozy pub on a Sunday. And he just got some, he poured me like a beer. And then he got like some little kind of posh little, you know, containers, squeezed some ketchup and mayonnaise into them, made some like oven chips, put on some like background noise of a pub and lots of people having a nice time. Someone dropping a plate. Started like playing like pool or darts. Yeah. Bit of arrows. And I would just sit there on my little kind of special cushion on the dining chair, which is the only thing I could sit on for 12 months. I mean, we talked about measuring backwards and for you, I know, I know how much traveling you've been doing.

4:26I know how many human things you've been doing. So that must be, yeah, to look back on that particular time must be, yeah, tough. it's a joy it's a joy now it's a joy now yeah yeah it's a gift i i don't look at it um in a negative way i see i think fuck that that was that was something that was part of my part of my

4:50Katy:journey yeah um and it um it's kind of shaped where i am now i do you think you needed it yeah i do actually yeah because proper type a personality been running and running and running and running work too hard probably overwork yeah and um it just floored me and it made me pause impossible to do anything you couldn't do stuff do you know what i mean i mean i remember it i hurt my back in early january by may i was trying to go out and do stuff and this was what this was on a lot of like meds and i went to my nephew's football game in on a sunny may day and i was like smiling at everyone like when you're trying to hold in a poo you know that kind of sort of expression and when no one was looking I hobbled around to the back of this um ground wherever we were where there was an empty field and I just lay down on my stomach on the on the on the ground just to sort of have a little rest because my legs were in so much pain I was a warrior so how can I possibly sit in front of a camera and worry about anything when I was I was a warrior James I was amazing i was like mad max you know yeah charlie's throne yeah you know she broke her neck during that did she i did not know she did yeah yeah a little fun fact i like movie facts does she do her own stunts then she must do well i don't know some of her own stunts some of them do don't they like old what's his name cruisy does he loves it he loves jumping out of planes and stuff he's amazing isn't it isn't it wow well i mean i was thinking about this like you think about certain actors um you know i think you know i know it's generational i think but i think of some of the actors kind of growing up with them and like he was one of them yeah and i think about how dynamic they are and the kind of the characters they play like even like a john i mean a leonardo dicaprio do you know i mean i first saw him in titanic but the things he's done and even like people like um oh you know classic romantic guy british guy um not in here hugh grant yeah so like like seeing the stuff that he's doing now uh like matthew mcconaughey like we were blessed and like a lot of the female actresses as well john i mean like i saw um Who was the other?

7:21Who was it? Kate Winslet. She did that amazing series. Was it Mayor of something town?

7:30Katy:Priesttown, was it? Something like that. Mayor of Priesttown? Yeah. She was amazing in that. Phenomenal in it. Yeah. Was it Mayor of Preston or something like that? Yeah, something like that. No, not the mayor. I'm getting Preston City Council here. Yeah. You're up north, son. But yeah, I don't know. Do you know what I mean? just like their ability to just develop their character. East Town. East Town, that was it. Sorry, these things bug me. I have to get them. Sorry. Got ChatGPT up or probably not, maybe Google. No, got DuckDuckGo. DuckDuckGo? The presumptuous, judgmental Australian. Australian.

8:07Yeah, Australian man with a beard. Yeah, golly. So, yeah, it's all good. I don't know why we're talking about Hugh Grant then, but, you know, it is what it is.

8:16Katy:well i mean can you do any impressions of any actors no no no no okay we'll move swiftly on yeah i can't even do an australian accent do you know what i mean the irony i'm not even going to attempt to because i think that'd be labeled cultural appropriation yeah i don't think we can do that anymore damn that was part of my humor armor for many years and yeah until i got told off by someone 10 years younger than me and then i was like oh sorry i actually i was actually doing a talk on stage at Motion North. I was the host and I was a little bit, I was fine actually, but I was a little bit nervous and nervous energy.

8:53Katy:And one of my, we were talking about being back in the studio and I said something like, yeah, it's nice when we're all together, isn't it? Because we can hug and the audience, I looked at the audience and I realised what I'd said and went, yeah, showing my age there, probably not appropriate these days. Let's not do any hugging. I'm a cuddler. I give out free hugs left, right and centre, mate. I think we all need to hug each other a little bit more. Yeah, so what I do now is I just gently touch someone's forearm. Do you? Like if I feel like coming to, and then I'll test it out, and then I might touch their cheek.

9:29Oh, right. It escalated quick, didn't it? No, I'm joking. Yeah, I know. I'm joking too.

9:35Katy:You know these lovely sort of events you go to, you meet the other speakers and you kind of like, you form a little posse, don't you? and you become like all each other's best mates for the next two days or whatever it is yeah it's about as long as it lasts isn't it exactly we were doing silent disco and uh i don't know what overcame me but i was like dancing around with these other people who run very respected studios um you know they're kind of a big deal yeah and um i just gently sort of play slapped them each on the cheeks just went i challenge you to a duel yeah yeah but it was hilarious i don't know where it came from i was like oh my god i can't believe i just gently slapped you it's part of your brand now do you know what i mean that that katie girl do you know what i mean just watch out she well after a few after a few beastie boy dances she'll start whacking you around yeah exactly exactly i need to go back to my deeds and my reputation grid and make sure don't add that into your personal brand golly right let's do some questions sure these questions that i got like a minute ago these ones all right sorry sorry no it's all it's all good it's all good fun what is your most controversial creative opinion my most controversial creative opinion is probably i don't think it's that controversial okay um but um i don't like to read many books by creative people.

11:09Katy:No, I would agree with that. I don't think I've actually read any for that, for very similar reasons, I would assume. Yeah, yeah, I think it's, for me, it's, yeah, I think you can get a little bit boxed, like if you're a logo designer and you like just read logo books all the time or branding books or strategy books or whatever. I very rarely read books or absorb knowledge from my own industry unless I'm trying to challenge something that I am trying to challenge or look at differently I have I get as a journalist I get quite a few books sent through for review yeah and sometimes I fill them with other graphic design books I'll be damned if I've ever opened any of them but they look very good on the shelf and they make me look worldly and intelligent I mean look I'm not saying that you should never because they are beautiful and we should also support our creative people but for me i think it's i i'm very it's very rare nowadays that i will um like if i'm thinking of a book i won't go oh what what new design book can i get it's very rare it's like me i don't i don't often listen to podcasts from in the same field as mine because you listen to your own podcast no no not really whenever i won't listen to this back No.

12:29Katy:No, I get it. Lots of people don't. I totally get it. Back when I started this, I listened to every single one, making sure I hadn't said anything controversial. You can't do anything about it, can you? Well, you can. You edit it. You edit it out. Yeah, of course. But once it's out in the world, I suppose you can delete it, can't you? Or take it down. But to be honest, my editor, James, he's brilliant. Another great James. And I just whack it over. and apart from like maybe the doorbell going or somebody having a coughing fit, we just keep it all together. I know people who edit their podcasts to take out every single pause.

13:11Oh, so it's like just like boom. So it's like ba-ba-ba-ba.

13:14Katy:But I hate that because your human brain can, it's really off-putting. And I find it really sort of messes my brain with the videos on Instagram, you know, the amazing like chop, chop, chop, chop, chop. Yeah. Well, they're trying to just give you everything you need in 13 seconds. I can't cope with it. I prefer the ums and the ahs and the sneezes and the mistakes and the stumbles and the put. It's just, it's easier on the ears, I think. Yeah, maybe that might come back. Or maybe it's never gone, but maybe people will start to embrace the real conversation more than that. Are we going from authenticity to real?

13:53We don't see the word authenticity. Alignment, do you know what I mean?

13:57Katy:Alignment, yes, yes, yes. Sorry, I will stop teasing. We just did like an hour and a half of that the other day. Do you know what I mean? All right, okay, I'll shut up. We'll move swiftly on. Give me another question that I only just got. What's the next question? What is a trend you're secretly over, but everyone else seems to love? I mean... Skinny jeans for me. Is it? Okay, it can be anything. It can be anything. It can be anything. professional professional yeah a trend god you know what like i think you know i i don't i've never really liked this trend of people going out to certain events and watching it on their camera so they could show the world where they are john i mean i see people like going whale watching which is a once in a lifetime thing and you watch it through their phones and they're watching it their phones or when they're at their gig and they're watching the gig through their phone up here rather than actually being present with it so that for me I understand the wanting to kind of capture the memory but the inability to be present at something that you've paid money to do or once in a lifetime event just so you can get it on your phone that's something that loads of people do which I've never really enjoyed is that me neither it will do I mean it's all I got Katie no i know i i hate it too it's really sad i just feel so sad for them because they're just so addicted to phones i was sat next to somebody on the train the other day lovely girl and she said um oh i i i would like get my phone out and put you on a follow on instagram but i have a an app that means i'm only on it for 15 minutes a day blocker yeah i was like is is that a thing oh my god like because you know i'll go on it quite a lot for work and everything and like dicking about with my mates and sending them like unnecessary memes and silliness yeah yeah cat memes are always the cat memes um and like or you know the barbie ones at the moment that they keep sending the barbie ones you know yeah um and uh yeah it just it just astounds me how addicted we are to these like devices which have ultimately made our lives a hundred percent better but are also it's a double-edged sword terribly very very connected disconnected world very strange have you ever seen that um there's that classic image of like way back when do you know what i mean when we were kids and everybody was on the train and they're like oh everybody was reading their newspaper yeah and then today yeah or a book yeah and today everybody like i because i've spent a little bit of time on the airport and in the train on the air on the airbus do you know i mean all that kind of stuff like in an airport like and or on a tram we're in underground london like everybody has their phones on like everybody like it's almost very rare to see somebody without a phone in their hand now which is bonkers isn't it yeah it's a good time good obviously to bum around and stay entertained or whatever but it always definitely fascinates me because i try i try to not be that guy yeah i had um i do like how it keeps me in touch with people though just talking about instagram specifically it's a nice sort of lazy way to stay in touch with many many people like muas sent me uh my friend muas he sent me a um really funny reel this morning it was just this lad out jogging in london and the sunshine was out and it was very recent and there was just this guy up ahead of him spinning around just just an older dude just spinning around and round feeling the sunshine and he ran past him in this sunshine amazing and he was like yes amazing

17:37Katy:to sum up how it is to be british i mean this must be completely like alien to you being an australian yeah i mean i get the sunshine all the time sometimes i mean always barbecuing and chasing kangaroos you're a good sport you really are right we're gonna go rituals now and I want to know, what's the smallest thing that instantly improves your work day? Preparing the night before for the following morning. Ooh. Yeah, I had two. One of them is walking my dog every morning. My dog needs a turd, do you know what I mean? So it doesn't matter whether it's sunny, rainy, frosty, miserable. I still have to get up, go out, walk in.

18:25But I love it. that fresh air in the first, in the first, the first thing in the morning definitely sets me up. It's been a bit shit, obviously with all the rain recently, but like over the last few days, it's been lovely, but I'm a, I'm like, I like to kind of hit the ground running a little bit. I'm quite effective in the morning. So I'll be sure to just like make like little, little notes, John, I mean of like, like these are the things that if I, if I hit these things tomorrow I'm going to be great rather than getting into I used to get into the office and then figure out okay what am I going to do today whereas I figured that out the night before so when I get in I'm off so that's probably a good time hack and a good ritual that has definitely

19:07Katy:been of good benefit for me and does the dog poo before you or do you poo before the dog we sometimes poo together I was gonna say I mean I often I often get caught short in the woods I do I do a lot of hiking and I am the guy who prefers to poo in the woods. I would be, I'm happy to be that guy. My wife is the same. Do you know what I mean? My wife has been caught short many times. We spend a lot of time outside together. I wonder if anybody's accidentally, you know, those lovely people who pick up other people's dog poo and take it home. I wonder if there's anybody that's picked up your poo.

19:44Some of those things that come out are not picker-uppable. what are you reading i don't know it's the travel isn't it golly i eat a lot of fruit

19:54Katy:a lot of fruit a lot of fiber yeah love it um oh uh next one this is quite interesting if your creative style had a theme tune a theme tune what would it be i mean from my drug induced teenage years um it would have to be some dirty drum and bass Yes. With some very dirty drop in it. Oh, yes. Yes. Anything like that. Brockie, Andy C, do you know what I mean? Like all the classics. Yes. You know, definitely spent way too many nights on way too many drugs for way too many days in a row at certain events. What drugs? What drugs though? Because I couldn't do drugs when I went to drum and bass nights.

20:49I used to do a lot of E.

20:51Katy:Yeah, but I couldn't do it to that kind of music. Could you not? I just didn't stop. For me, it was a lot of coke, ketamine, do you know what I mean? A lot of E, depending on what I was doing. Yeah. Depending on how I felt. But yeah, that for me, we used to double drop before we went in and then crack on four or five a night sometimes. how are we still alive i have zero idea then i used to drive home do you know what i mean like fucking hell like this is um yeah i drove on ketamine once and it wasn't the best thing with loads of people in the car i don't think they can post post arrest you so i think we're all right i hope you hope not because otherwise i'm in trouble yeah um trouble kids be kids kids be kids yeah yeah okay what is one piece of advice you'd ban from the creative industry forever um this will be probably somewhat controversial i suppose um i don't i don't mean it to be um uh i'm probably bigging it up now that's probably not controversial at all um like follow your passion is something that i fucking hate does my fucking shedding do you know what I mean I think it's lazy your dreams yeah like I get it you know I think it's important to do things that do light a fire and you and be at your energized by but for me the things that energize me continuously evolve and continuously change and if I followed my passion at 18 I'd be dead do you know what I mean so like I think I don't I don't think it's I think uh I I think you learn to love things by doing them over and over and over and over again.

22:36Yeah. I don't think follow your passion is great career advice. I think follow probably follow your, I don't know, follow the thing that you think might keep you alive and stable. I hope that that turns into a passion is what I would suggest.

22:58Katy:Yeah, I think it's the right way. It's reframing it. It's more what you're interested in. Yeah, it's something like energy. For me, I was always like, I didn't know if I wanted to be a graphic designer forever, but I knew I liked drawing and I liked being creative. So that was where good energy was. It wasn't in other things. So I focused on that energy, but I was an artist, an illustrator, a tattoo artist, and I happily hopped around. do you know what I mean? And then landed in graphic design and then didn't really, I don't think I've, you know, I wouldn't say I even, God, is this the right thing to say?

23:38I don't think I even like, I'm passionately in love with design, do you know what I mean? I love creating stuff. I love using my brain differently, but am I passionate about drawing? No. Am I passionate about layout? No, do you know what I mean? I enjoy the process. It's a part of my job, but it's not something I am passionate about, I wouldn't suggest.

24:00Katy:I'm passionate about Harrison Ford. Yeah.

24:07Or me and my wife have like ones. So if this person... Oh, come on, we all have that.

24:14Katy:Yeah, so one famous person. Like if there's one famous person that said, look, you got me for one night, me and my wife. Me and my wife said it's absolutely fine. I think hers was Johnny Depp because she's got a thing for Johnny Depp. um but that was a she might have changed that um before and mine is um there's this um she's she was on alessandra daddario she was on baywatch um and she did a lot of the kind of other bits and pieces like that but like she's she's like it's been okay with my wife alessandra so if john i mean if anything if your life is really bad one day and you want to come and see a british man from America or Australia, whatever it is.

25:00Katy:I love how you took your glasses off then, just so you could give the girl a little glimpse. I was realised what I was talking about live on TV. Do you know what I mean? It's done now, isn't it? But it's all good, yeah. So, yeah, I can't even remember what the question was. I don't think me and Tom have ever done this. Who would you... I just like David Gandhi and Harrison Ford. David Gandhi. yeah he's the um the model model isn't he he was the yeah the on the what was it on the boat with the little white trunks in that basically the famous well he's basically never got any clothes on i did i did sort of say to tom you know if i if there was ever a chance i got a lift with david gandhi in one of his soft top you know vintage uh vintage sports cars and he's wearing leather gloves and i can just wear you know a glamorous sort of headscarf and be driven around the mouthy coast and then i realized what i said afterwards and i was like reached out my hand to my little tom and went darling i'm joking i do love you i love you i'd like you to be my david i mean i'd like you to drive me along right we've got one more question and it's part of our lovely chain of questions that each guest gives the next guest and our previous guest was the wonderful natty Harris um she asked if you could be a pasta shape what would you be and why what would I be and why um now for to answer this accurately you would need some prior knowledge of the pasta shapes and also a bit of cookery knowledge um as who's that guy on the internet yeah when everybody anybody says cookery just it's one of those things it's like authentic for me in branding when somebody says cookery i'm like oh really let's just just let's just remove that word from the dictionary you know speaking of cooking emily english is incredible she she's somebody i i point to as somebody who does social media really well um but i get the impression you might find her approach a little bit excruciating i mean most people find my approach pretty excruciating so we can we can all be excruciating together exactly it's all good it's all good so yeah i mean golly i mean i even had pasta last night and a nice little chicken carbonara shall i look them up because i haven't got a clue either i think there's i mean you got fusilli you got tagliatelle you got spaghetti yes you've got um you know angel hair yeah i don't know what that one is um i think i i think i would be i think i'd be a little few zilly do you know what i mean just because it's interesting to look at and from uh an ed an eating perspective i do like how the juices get stuck on the thing and i don't have i like to eat pasta with a spoon not a fork so anything that i can spoon in rather than twirl is definitely a bit of mbj so love it love it can i can i can i pick one no it wasn't your question fuck do you know the amount of times i just wish wish i was on the receiving end because i mean to be fair i could have given you these questions no you could love them to be fair i would have given them to you early as well so you it's not about me james i'm just the host you are you're just a journalist i'm just a journalist i don't count yeah i would be ravioli because i'm delicious and full of shit yeah

28:45Katy:if there's a chance for me to crack a joke i will do it yeah i enjoyed it it was good it was good i didn't even think about ravioli well some of us are just more brilliant and yes you know yeah some of us have more time to prepare

29:02Katy:Right, what was your question for the next guest? I've got to get someone a question. You've literally sprung this on me. Yeah, I'm afraid I have. I'm building a reputation for being prepared and generous. Golly. Would it help to know who might be next? No. Okay. um if you could be any um zoo animal what would you be and why it doesn't necessarily have to be a zoo animal i don't want it to be a pet i want it to be an animal outside of pettery but i also want to know the the reason that they chose that person and what ability is it about that particular animal that they would like? Sorry, that's like 25 questions in one.

29:53But I do, like, you know, some people like to fly, so would they be a bird? Or, like, climb real good? Or, like, don't know me, be cuddled? I don't know. A bit sloth, sit around all day and do fuck all. Do you know what I mean? So, whatever. What would you be? Do you know, I think I'd like to be something... I think I'd like to be something in the water.

30:15Katy:Mmm. Yeah. I think I'd like to be maybe some sort of, I do like being in water. So maybe some sort of seaweed. Hippopotamus. Yeah.

30:28Katy:Mollusk or something. I'm trying to figure something that doesn't necessarily get eaten. Do you know what I mean? A sea turtle? Something like that. I think, I know we've got a lot of space, but I think for me, I'd love the idea of being able, and I'm not too worried about the warm water, cold water thing because it's not a real question. So I'd love the ability just to be able to continuously explore never-endingly. And fly would be good as well, I think, as an ability. I think that'd be useful. They always make the best dreams, those flying dreams. Yeah, they do. Yeah, I suppose. Why are we up to for the rest of the day?