In short
Joy Nazzari (DNCO) discusses creative work principles, client-commercial success, branding/signage tradeoffs (fish-and-chips example), street art ambitions, major public-sector naming work for London Overground, and personal reflections on injuries, disability awareness, and “Friday studio” nostalgia. She also shares personal rituals (baths, no-phone mindfulness), WhatsApp/emoji habits, and leadership/creative practice nostalgia (mock-ups, scalpel training).
Guest backgrounds
Joy Nazzari is a long-time creative at DNCO (friend of Creative Boom for 16 years). She’s involved in design for public realm projects; she also has a secret desire to become a graffiti/street artist and knows Lee Boffin (Global Street Art).
Key claims
Creative work must be commercially right (“hill to die on”); signage changes should be judged by sales impact; naming infrastructure is unusually complex and responsibility-heavy; injury/disability increases compassion and awareness; baths without phones support mindfulness.
Notable examples
Fish-and-chips shop signage change debate; Lee Boffin’s Global Street Art and studio archive; London Overground naming tender and Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm brief; Friday lunch at Amul (Maida Vale) and Friday studio beer/trolley vibe; hip replacement and nerve-pain drug experiences; “Estoy bien” Disaster Barbie WhatsApp sticker.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Importance of Commercial Viability
0:45 to 2:20
Discussion on the significance of commercial success in creative work.
“another creative who's passionate about what they do but i want to know joy nazari what's a hill you die on when it comes to creative work?”
Fish and Chips and Cooking Preferences
2:20 to 4:20
Joy shares her opinions on the best way to cook fish and chips.
“In fact, the founder of Global Street Art, I went to a really woo-woo away thing with him in Somerset.”
Aspiring Street Artist Dreams
4:20 to 6:10
Joy reveals her secret aspiration to become a graffiti artist.
“very specific thing I want to do and he sent me basically he sent me what I needed and paints and cans and everything and I still haven't done it.”
Experiences with Global Street Art
6:10 to 8:05
Joy's encounter with Lee Boffin and insights on street art projects.
“Well, that is an epic project to have taken on.”
Overcoming Challenges in Public Projects
8:05 to 10:00
Joy discusses the challenges and successes of a public naming project.
“Of course, the brief was written by the Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm.”
The Pleasure of Bathing
10:00 to 12:00
Joy shares her love for baths and their soothing effects.
“Oh, what's a guilty pleasure you defend to the death, Joy?”
Reflections on Health and Recovery
12:00 to 14:00
Discussion about Joy's hip replacement surgery and its impact on her life.
“So by the time I could technically have a bath, I wasn't bothered about having a bath, but it's so funny when you can't do something, you kind of think, oh, I wish I could have a bath.”
Navigating Life Post-Hip Replacement
14:01 to 14:59
Learn how a major medical operation can alter one's perception of disability and mobility.
“I think I wanted to be a secret, but it's now not going to be because I'm about to tell you.”
Empathy Through Pain
15:00 to 17:06
Discover how experiencing pain can enhance empathy and awareness of others' struggles.
“So if you're on the tube and you've got a back injury or if I've just had a hip replacement and you've got like young 20-somethings walking like right in front of you, it's really, wow.”
Humor in Recovery
17:07 to 18:24
Explore how humor and shared experiences can ease the recovery journey from injury.
Show all 17 chapters
Perspectives on Medical Treatment
18:25 to 20:14
Examine the differences in medical treatment approaches between the UK and the US.
“And sure enough, about a year later, I had it again.”
Coping with Chronic Pain
20:15 to 21:17
Understand the emotional challenges and strategies for coping with ongoing pain.
“So that's a huge problem in, in, in North America.”
Nostalgia for the Creative Process
21:18 to 24:30
Reflect on the joy and creativity of studio life and the nostalgia for past practices.
“maybe i'll put something funny in it you know what do i put some candles on oh definitely Okay, so this is an unusual one.”
Physical Mock-Ups and Fun Fridays
24:31 to 28:04
Discuss the importance of making mock-ups and the joy of Friday studio culture.
“Last night, I went to see my youngest son, Jasper, perform, and he was playing the bass guitar in a little band.”
Nostalgia for the Past
28:04 to 28:25
The hosts reminisce about the good old days and their changing world.
“I loved the vibe poppy music silly like silly music really uh almost unacceptably so and a beer you know it was a nice it was a nice thing I miss I miss a lot Matt do you miss that too I'm sure you do.”
Rob Mayhew's Impact
28:25 to 29:13
Discussion about Rob Mayhew's relatable content and its emotional resonance.
“In the meantime, but have you seen the Instagram account?”
Question for Chris Wilson
29:15 to 30:00
Joy poses a thoughtful question about managing energy as a leader.
“What's your question for the next guest, which will be the lovely Chris Wilson, a graphic designer in Glasgow?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:03Katy Cowan:We are back with The Spark and our wonderful guest of the week, Joy Nazzari from DNCO. And this is the bit where we have a bit of a giggle. I'm not suggesting we didn't have fun on Monday, Joy. Gosh.
0:18Joy Nazzari:We did. We did. We had a great time.
0:20Katy Cowan:We really sort of put the world to rights, I think. Talked about a lot of things. I felt like we could have carried on for another hour. well we will we'll have to we'll have to separately we're having without without microphones without exactly um it's it is genuinely really lovely to chat with you um you've been a really lovely friend of creative boom for 16 years and um it's just really lovely to chat with another another creative who's passionate about what they do but i want to know joy nazari what's a hill you die on when it comes to creative work?
0:59Joy Nazzari:It's really boring, but it has to be commercially right. I really defend to the death whether something's actually going to work for the client commercially. And I'll tell you really quickly, many, many years ago on Twitter, when I was on Twitter, because I, well, I probably technically I'm still on Twitter, but I haven't opened it in years. I remember someone being really sad that a chip, a famous, maybe infamous, I don't know, a fish and chip place, changed their signage from something gorgeous to something really tacky. And I replied and said, but have their sales gone up? And I got such a like, terrible backlash.
1:40Joy Nazzari:And of course, I'm not a heathen. Like I loved the sign before it was deliciously beautiful. But also did their sales go up? Because like, we have to remember that our job very often we're not artists like we're there to help our clients have an effect of some sort and if we're not helping them have that effect that's the hill i will always die on i want the client to have a success yeah i just want to know if they how they cook their fish and chips what
2:09Katy Cowan:they put them in yeah it's a bit controversial but there's only one way to cook fish and chips
2:15Joy Nazzari:but really what is it i've learned something what is it i mean i'm gonna really offend a lot of
2:20Katy Cowan:people but it's got to be animal animal fat hasn't it oh i see okay they do it all in vegetable oil now it's just not the same okay well i'm down with that i'm down with that it's very bad for you very bad but so so good i love so good there used to be a really controversial t-shirt on do you remember threads oh yeah yeah it was good fun wasn't it for years it was like yeah the go-to t-shirt place yeah that was good that was good i'm sure i'm sure i did that oh did you get in
2:50Joy Nazzari:involved did you get more no no I'm sure I've had I'm sure you because you you could do things on it
2:54Katy Cowan:couldn't you yeah yeah I'm sure designs and things like that yeah yeah that was cool I had a good friend called Matt who had one of the t-shirts and it just said meet his murder tasty tasty murder yeah me murder terrible very clever I love that I love that I'm just gonna I'm gonna get cancelled what's a medium or discipline you secretly wish you were good at?
3:18Joy Nazzari:I have a very secret desire that a few people know is actually a really serious one to be a graffiti artist I want to do street art and I have the thing I know what I'm going to do and one day I'm going to do it so it's it's something I want to do it's like an area I'm I'm I'm planning to expand into secretly you'll never know but I will do that that's a big secret. Wow, what's stopping you? Very little. In fact, the founder of Global Street Art, I went to a really woo-woo away thing with him in Somerset. And a bunch of us all stayed in yurts. And it was during the pandemic, actually, it was right when the pandemic, when we were allowed out.
4:03Joy Nazzari:And I pulled him aside and I said, I have something I really need to tell you. I really want to be a street artist and he was like well what's the matter with you just like go like here I'm going to tell you the wall you need to go to where everyone's allowed to play and I said I know but it's time and whatever and then I told him the idea that I had and I have a very specific thing I want to do and he sent me basically he sent me what I needed and paints and cans and everything and I still haven't done it. So who was that by the way? Lee Boffin, he is amazing and he's got incredible energy. He's also got this amazing archive of crazy shit in his studio, which is worth going to see.
4:52Joy Nazzari:It's super well documented. I think everything in mass in like multiples of anything starts to become very beautiful. And he has multiples of a lot of really random stuff. like, I don't know, lunchboxes and cookie sunglasses. And I'm making this up, but he's got collections. I think he must buy collections of things online. And then he's got these crazy collections. It's incredible. He's an amazing dude. He also, I believe he's like a PhD from Oxford or something. He's the coolest, smartest guy I think I know. Lee Buffkin, wonderful dude.
5:27Katy Cowan:He really is. He magically ended up in, I'm going to say magically, didn't appear. but he um randomly ended up in one of my first vlogs on the youtube channel no way and um i was just blown away by him and he was just really selling the global street art organization and what he did and i just remember stopping him and saying do you ever sleep and he was like not at
5:51Joy Nazzari:all no no he's he's got he's got more energy than the rest of us i'm oh he's great yeah he's
5:57Katy Cowan:you put bring him on to your podcast he's amazing i'm going to a hundred percent going to and i'm also going to go down and see their hq because he said i could and i've not taken him up on that offer yet because uh you'll love it you know time and it's only really been the last couple of months that i've started to get really better so yeah it's on my list on my ever-growing list of things that i want to do next year and very good brill amazing go and do that street art when did you last feel completely out of your depth and what happened next so we when we won the london
6:33Joy Nazzari:overground naming tender i think that was probably a moment where we all thought whoa and actually i won't i remember simon noodle who's our head of strategy went to the the top floor where our studio was in in our last uh we've moved studios but in our last studio and he kind of went you know ding ding ding I have an announcement and you could see he's just like we've won the long and naming which you know in all of us were it was a simultaneously like and like holy crap this is this is scary amazing uh and it I think the weight of responsibility I don't care about legacy like it's not a thing that I care about personally but I think the feeling of responsibility of you're going to put something into the public realm that's going to be there forever and it will be there forever unless something really weird and maybe Nigel Farage I think could you know try and reverse some of those things but that would be so lame of him that I'm not even sure he would even stoop that low but you know that that felt simultaneously exciting and and super scary.
7:50Joy Nazzari:So that was a biggie.
7:51Katy Cowan:Well, that is an epic project to have taken on. And how did it go?
7:56Joy Nazzari:We think it went better than we could have ever hoped. So we were answering a very specific brief and we did that. We did that job, we think, very well. Of course, the brief was written by the Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm. So the Daily Mail had already written all its articles before we'd ever done any, you know, five minutes of our work. You know, we were always going to get, because of the way the brief was set up that it wanted to bring up Londoners stories. It was very unlikely to have a, you know, be given a pass by the Daily Mail. So they obviously jumped up and down quite a lot, but we've had the amount of positive feedback and positive energy we've had from the project, people feeling like they see themselves in the stories.
8:42Joy Nazzari:That's been, And honestly, it's really pretty moving, moving stuff. We did a huge breadth of work. We really collaborated very strongly with Londoners. I don't know, we're super proud of that job. And also it's a really unusual brief. I can't say enough, like naming infrastructure. Boris Johnson, you know, Crossrail goes live and it's like, it's, I'm calling it Elizabeth line because she's my mate and I want to call it Elizabeth. And that's it, job done. And this at least was, you know, quite an interesting to commission naming is of infrastructure is really, really deeply unusual. So from that perspective, it was amazing, fun.
9:21It was super cool.
9:23Joy Nazzari:We learned a lot on that project. And I think, you know, it's there. Six million pounds worth of signs. The Daily Mail loves to say that we got six million pounds. I just think, you know, if we got six million pounds for doing those names, that would have been incredible. But no such luck. You'd be retired. I would probably. But the money, the budget was for signage, which was going to be changed no matter what happened. So I am, I'm, I'm massively proud of it's led to quite a lot of work with the public sector generally. So that's, it's been great.
9:55Katy Cowan:Amazing. Proud. Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, what's a guilty pleasure you defend to the death, Joy?
10:07Joy Nazzari:i like having a bath i really like having a bath so british then bath bath i know i have been here
10:13Katy Cowan:25 years i like having a bath i love having a bubble bath but bath we say bath up north if you
10:19Joy Nazzari:said bath i know i'm a north i'm a i'm an american i'm not even any of those things but i say bath or bath so i like having a bath yeah bubble bath i really love it um i feel completely okay that to get myself through the pandemic occasionally at lunchtime, I would actually get in the bath to be able to just, you know, reset. And of a Friday evening, if there aren't any plans, I like a bath. I think it's great. You know, some people say it's gross. I don't care. Like you have a shower afterwards. Having a bath, there is just something really soothing about, and no phone. You just be alone with your thoughts.
10:58Joy Nazzari:Oh, this is something actually, I really have a thing about I read it somewhere I think it was a joke actually it was a joke it was a comedian who said the reason why we have mindfulness now is because no one has time with their thoughts anymore like you have to book time to be mindful because you know you're on your phone and so you're not being mindful if you're on your phone but in order to have mindfulness you actually have to have time where you're just alone with your thoughts and the comedian is really inappropriate and says like, you know, in the olden days, we used to have a crap without our phone and we used to wait for the bus without our phone.
11:34Joy Nazzari:And it's a brilliant piece of comedy. And I don't know who the comedian was, but like chapeau to that guy because it's really great. So if I have a bath, I don't do it with a phone. I just sit there and be alone with my thoughts. And I defend it for the mindfulness reason. But also it's just good. It's just, you know, it's indulgent. it's a cheap almost free indulgent indulgence is having a bath so there you go do you like
12:00Katy Cowan:watching if you are doom scrolling do you like watching those crazy tiktok or instagram reels where people have like made a real kind of like it's amsr kind of thing yes and they just yeah do like a kind of weird like i saw one recently it was like a christmas bath oh yes so i don't i
12:18Joy Nazzari:don't go for like the full ambiance um but uh I actually don't have one right now but I one candle you know I'll go for that I'm usually really scared you know with my long limbs that I'm gonna knock it over so right now it's like you know La Roche-Posay there's a there's a particular soap I like that you know I put in gives me a few bubbles you know I'm in there for probably half an
12:40Katy Cowan:hour and that's it that's the luxury perfect sounds idyllic I might I might have a bath this weekend yeah I've had one for ages in fact when I had my back injury last year I hate baths because
12:52Joy Nazzari:I get too impatient and I get too hot yes yes because I always like make it scaldingly hot
12:58Katy Cowan:and then I'm like I last five minutes and I'm restless and I'm like no I've got to get out
13:03Joy Nazzari:yeah I do it scaldingly hot and then I have to put my limbs out oh yeah you do that
13:09Katy Cowan:I made all my friends laugh because I admitted once you know when you have a bath you've always have a jug next to your bath so you can fill it with cold water and pour it over yourself and they all burst out laughing I was like what doesn't anybody else do this and they were like no I'm like that's how you stay cool I always have the window open that's so funny yeah the window open I think that's right yeah yeah but I couldn't have a bath last year because I had a back injury yeah I couldn't do a lot of things and it wasn't until probably a good 12 months that I could sit with my legs stretched out in front of me.
13:45So by the time I could technically have a bath,
13:49Katy Cowan:I wasn't bothered about having a bath, but it's so funny when you can't do something, you kind of think, oh, I wish I could have a bath.
13:56Joy Nazzari:Do you know, this is something we didn't touch on in our first half.
14:00Katy Cowan:No. But, and this is a secret.
Read the full transcript
14:03Joy Nazzari:I think I wanted to be a secret, but it's now not going to be because I'm about to tell you. But two Christmases ago, I had a hip replacement.
14:11Katy Cowan:Oh my goodness, you poor thing.
14:12Joy Nazzari:And I did it on the 15th of December so that basically I could come back, you know, the first week of January like nothing happened. And I thought, my mom said, look, it's a breeze, darling, don't worry. You'll be up and doing cartwheels straight away. It's a breeze, which was a lie, by the way. It is not as straightforward as it sounded. It's a whole freaking hip. But what I was going to say to you is having a major injury or a big operation and suddenly having a handicap is what we used to call it in the old days, but that sort of lesser ability, that is really life altering. It's amazing what a change that makes to you as a human being in the course of your work day or home life.
14:59Joy Nazzari:You know, it's hard. It's a really big struggle. It's debilitating. and especially if you can't see it. So if you're on the tube and you've got a back injury or if I've just had a hip replacement and you've got like young 20-somethings walking like right in front of you, it's really, wow. So I feel this lesson that came to me. It's like, oh, I can see what's coming down. One day I'm going to feel really insecure with, you know, if you're not stable or if you're injured, crowds and things, that must be so difficult if you have a non-visible disability. So anyway, that's a learning, I think. Did you have that as well?
15:40Katy Cowan:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I was just going to say. And also you realize how important it is to stay strong and mobile and keep moving. And you've got to look after your physical health. But the other thing which I have now gained from that, the biggest lesson, there's loads of lessons, but one of the biggest lessons is when I'm out and about now, I am more aware of people than I've ever been. I've always thought I was quite a compassionate, open person who, you know, you know how they say you don't look at anyone on the tube and you don't talk to anyone. Yeah, sorry, that's not going to happen. I'm a northerner and I am who I am.
16:15Katy Cowan:I'll occasionally smile at people. I used to talk to them as well. I've managed to sort of nip that in the bud. But I haven't. I haven't. I know.
16:23Joy Nazzari:I know everyone on my train by first name. I'm the weird American who speaks to everyone on the train. I don't think that's weird.
16:29Katy Cowan:I think it's weird that people don't speak to each other. But I also understand that when you're in a big city and there's lots of people, it's just an efficient way to survive. But it's you spot pain. You spot people in pain. You notice people hobbling. You notice people sort of bent over. You notice people being a bit slower. So you have an even bigger capacity for kindness and compassion because you know, because you're going through pain. You say, I've got pain right now. um it's taken me it's been a very long road it's 21 months post injury but you yeah you learn you learn to move around in the world a lot more with a lot more kindness and just awareness and i really do see this whole episode of my life as a as a blessing not a curse because it's made me a better
17:18Joy Nazzari:person definitely well i just think of what you've achieved in the last 20 21 months i think gosh i've got even more respect for you than I already did it's amazing yeah I carried on well the drugs helped
17:30Katy Cowan:yes yeah they're quite good very dangerous very dangerous I it's it was a drug called gabapentin I was only on it for two stints one two weeks and one three weeks I was absolutely off my face joy it was like the 90s again I was absolutely yeah pickled and there's a picture of me in a pub having my first pint in a pub after about four months of this injury and I was grinning my head off I had no pain and it was I thought I was fixed and actually it was just these mind-altering drugs that I think they're I think gabapentin's meant for epilepsy or something like that oh wow okay yeah but it they've discovered that it helps block nerve pain as well so so I was just like shouldn't have been there probably shouldn't have been sat because i was still very sort of fragile
18:23Joy Nazzari:but my god the drugs the drugs are good the drugs are good i i i slipped a disc in my in my neck my cervical spine um right a few years back now and uh they put me on a series of things one of them they basically said if you were in america we would they would cut you open and do surgery
18:41Katy Cowan:straight away yeah but they get in through the front don't they front exactly he was like i don't
18:45Joy Nazzari:want to do that to you no and i said okay i'd rather not do that either and he said um what we do in this country is is we wait and we see if it goes away after three or four months and i was already getting a loss of sensation in my left my left arm and fingers like pain and i had a lot of pain like tons of pain i was i was laying down at the in the office like on a sofa like this and people were you know it was a terrible time anyway he put me on a load of drugs one of which was valium um i can't remember what that's called in here but whatever the valium equivalent mother's helper something that ends in pam it's diazepam diazepam that's the one diazepam yeah yes or lorazepam one of those pam pam pams yeah yeah delicious stuff that stuff oh my god he's oh my god it's amazing it was amazing so he gave it to me for a period of time he said when you no longer feel pain you need to stop this straight away so i did that and he said now that you're recovered you have a chance that you're more likely to do it again.
19:40Joy Nazzari:And sure enough, about a year later, I had it again. And I went back and he's like, great, here's some naproxen, you know, which is like ibuprofen. And I was like, okay, cool, but can I have the yummy stuff too? And he went, no, I won't give it to you. And I, firstly, I loved him for saying that. And secondly, I was like, screw you, man. Like I'm in a lot of pain here again. And you're not going to give me the stuff that makes the pain manageable. bull. Anyway, he was, I really appreciate that about British doctors are less, they're not going to hand out the addictive stuff as easier as easily.
20:11Joy Nazzari:In the U S obviously they do. And so we have this crazy opioid crisis in the U S the doctors are compensated for dishing it out. Like they get rewarded basically. They're basically salespeople. So that's a huge problem in, in, in North America. It's I think less so here because you go to the doctor and they go take some paracetamol for that you know crushing pain you have I remember going to the physio and it was
20:37Katy Cowan:just as I was in so much pain and it was just when I was discovering from my scan what had gone on and she just said she was just so blase about it and so like you know oh you'll be all right you'll see you'll be doing yoga again one day you know and actually in hindsight I think that gave me strength the fact that she was so non not bothered about me and that it was like a very common injury and yeah it's just it's just time unfortunately time and patience yeah what you need
21:08Joy Nazzari:to hear is there's a there's a light at the end of the tunnel and yeah and if you don't i can't imagine how how crushing and hard that is and obviously a lot of people suffer with that it was tough but here i am and i'm doing everything again i'm gonna have a bath
21:23Katy Cowan:maybe i'll put something funny in it you know what do i put some candles on oh definitely Okay, so this is an unusual one. What's the oddest compliment you've ever received?
21:36Joy Nazzari:In Japan, I got called long a lot. You're very long. You're very long. And I think, and they were always like, wow, you're very long. And anyway, my husband, it was 14 years ago, I remember, because my eldest was a baby with us. And everywhere I went, it was, you're very long. So my husband loves to remind me of this very, you know, and anytime someone calls me tall, which they do regularly, he'll say, you're very long. So, yeah, so I really enjoy that. I think that's quite funny. You're very long. So I can't be called tall without me thinking you're very long.
22:14Katy Cowan:It's my brother's nickname, apparently, one of them, because he's six foot eight. So you think we've got it, but he really suits it. He's gorgeous. That's cute. I love it. Yeah. I'm actually the shortest in my family, by the way.
22:26Joy Nazzari:anyway um that's amazing okay what emoji do you overuse so the emoji i have for some reason adopted for myself over the years is a black heart and it's not because i'm black hearted by the way uh but it's just the red heart looks too cheesy and too curly and dnco has always been a bit black and white and i sort of liked it i don't know why didn't i adopt a white heart so I adopted a I adopted a black heart and started using it and and then of course the black heart is what you put when things are sad so yeah unfortunately I need to move away I need to move away from the black heart basically but uh yeah it would be the black heart joy is the black
23:08Katy Cowan:heart that's the most unusual one we've had so far so I love that yeah I love it I wasn't expecting that that's great but it's it works for every scenario have you figured out you can do stickers
23:19Joy Nazzari:yet on whatsapp and oh yeah oh i'm all there's a there's a sticker that well a few that i'm quite obsessed with but um the barbie um that says estoy bien so estoy bien in spanish means i'm doing fine yeah but it's like disaster barbie where she's like makeup all down her face and her hair is like this and so when uh if a girlfriend if a girlfriend says to me like oh hey how are you i'm like if i'm really busy i'm like estoy bien you know like
23:47Katy Cowan:there's a character that we grew up with that started those impossible beauty standards
23:52Joy Nazzari:yeah did you have a barbie did you look after it or did you cut its hair off and draw on its nipples i did all of those things i did i definitely had barbies i had lots of barbies and i definitely went through a period where i cut their hair for sure yeah yeah that's why i like i love the film barbie oh so true weird barbie weird barbie yeah exactly but that's why the the The Estoy Bien Barbie sticker is my go-to WhatsApp sticker, unfortunately. I think it says something about me, actually, that I'm using that maybe too much.
24:23Katy Cowan:No, I love it. It's great. I'm just looking forward to receiving it myself. Oh, yeah. Send it to you. Yeah, do it. What's the most recent photo on your phone?
24:33Joy Nazzari:Last night, I went to see my youngest son, Jasper, perform, and he was playing the bass guitar in a little band. He's 11. and so the very last thing is videos and photos of me zooming in to him up on stage and his little face just looks so happy just pure bliss no better feeling I think for a parent than seeing someone
24:58Katy Cowan:feel fulfilled like that yeah awesome that's awesome oh that's so cute okay now we every episode we always get a question from the previous guest and last week we had Matt Baxter from Baxter and Bailey and he asked this question what practice artifact or technique which is now
25:22Joy Nazzari:extinct would you bring back well this probably this does date me but I think probably I would love to see us just generally making physical mock-ups again it was really fun you know scalpling things, everyone cutting stuff up, sticking things together. That whole mock-up world was fun, but they are, I mean, it's when people get the knife out, I run to them. I'm like, Hey, I need you to just spend five minutes with me so I can train you how to use a scalpel. Like it's a, this is a thing you're going to cut your finger off otherwise. Um, I have to, you know, in the early days of DNCO, we had to do that all the time, basically teach people how to use a scalpel less so now.
25:59Joy Nazzari:So we're making, making things less, but that's probably not the thing. I have a nostalgia for making those mock-ups, but it's probably not the thing I would bring back. I think the thing, and it goes back to some of the conversation we had earlier, but the thing I would, I really, really miss, I have a really strong missing, is Friday afternoons in the studio. Oh, yes. Oh, man, I miss that so much. So what would happen? Well, firstly, Ben Dale and I, from the very beginning, we always had lunch on a Friday. It was a massive, massive thing for us. It wasn't like lunch with beer, and it was just lunch.
26:34Joy Nazzari:We would go out, the two of us. We went to a place in Maida Vale called Amul, which is this amazing Lebanese family-run place, and we would have lunch together. It was a time to sort of stop, kind of not celebrate, but just enjoy that it was the end of the week and things that had happened in the week. Take a moment, yeah. And that grew and grew and grew, and it became Friday lunch. It became a really big deal. But then coming back to the studio, still had half a day to go. the music was always much more poppy much more silly fun and then there would be like a five o 'clock trolley of beer and or anything else I don't I didn't care if it was a cup of tea but there was just a a levity that now we have to manufacture that um and we do we do work we try really hard to create these sort of moments time at the pub together etc but the the natural rhythm of winding down the week together with a beer at your desk or a glass of wine or a cup of tea even and was there was something and I know it's I know it's very gen x with me and I know it's really nostalgic good it's what we had it's what we had and I really I really miss those days I miss those days because it was everybody together right so now on a Friday I was in the studio last Friday and there were four of us and I bought everyone a special cookie from the like a local bakery because I was like just the four of us but you know four is a really small number um I loved the vibe poppy music silly like silly music really uh almost unacceptably so and a beer you know it was a nice it was a nice thing I miss I miss a lot Matt do you miss that too I'm sure you
28:16Katy Cowan:do. I miss it. I miss those golden days and they were special. And obviously the world's changed, hasn't it? In the meantime, but have you seen the Instagram account? It's TikTok as well. Rob Mayhew. Oh, I love him. Isn't he great?
28:33Joy Nazzari:Yeah, I feel so seen by him.
28:36Katy Cowan:He's so fab. I love that he did this very thing recently about, like, what was it? Like a Gen X telling his younger work colleagues what Fridays used to be like in the office. Yeah. And I was just like, oh, my God, I was like almost crying. I know. Because he really captured it. If you've not seen that, I'll dig it out and I'll send it to you. And I really love him.
29:01Joy Nazzari:He is he's brilliant. I just this is what I love about working with creative people is their ability to spot things like that is phenomenal. It's lovely. He's a joy to follow. I really enjoy him. Right.
29:15Katy Cowan:What's your question for the next guest, which will be the lovely Chris Wilson, a graphic designer in Glasgow?
29:23Joy Nazzari:OK, Chris, when I need to get myself into a different headspace, and sometimes I do. And I think as a leader, you recognize you have to bring the energy and you have to be there and be in the right mode, whether it's for a pitch or for your team. I go to music. That's where I go to shift my energy. And I have a few tracks which create like a Pavlovian effect on my brain and jumpstart me into a new mode. So my question for you, Chris, is what do you do as a leader to manage your energy? And if it is music, then show us your tracks.
30:00Katy Cowan:Oh, that's a good one. That's a brilliant one. Okay. Well, Joy, that just leaves me to say thank you so much for being a guest on the Creative Beam podcast. It's been a real honor. It's been a real joy. Oh, thank you. It has been a real joy for me too.
30:13Joy Nazzari:Thank you so much.
From the publisher
Joy Nazzari of DNCO is back for The Spark, and this time we're keeping things short, sharp and delightfully unhinged. In this bonus episode, she opens up about the creative hill she'll die on, the medium she secretly wishes she could master, and the project that left her thinking, oh god… this is huge.
There's talk of graffiti, guilty pleasures, strange compliments in Japan, and the emoji she overuses so much it's basically become her personal brand. We also discover what's sitting at the top of her camera roll this week and why it made her heart burst.
Along the way, Joy and Katy veer into fish-and-chip politics, studio nostalgia, and the odd ways creative leaders get themselves into the right headspace before big moments.
And to wrap things up, Joy poses a brilliant question for next week's guest, Chris Wilson — one that might reveal how he gets himself fired up, calm, or somewhere in between.
