The Spark: Pum Lefebure on Rituals, Awkward Beauty and a Unicorn-mermaid Imagination

0:02Pum Lefebure:We are back with the wonderful Pum Lefebure from Design Army and we're going to now have some fun with the spark. You've prepared your questions. This is going to be the fun bit. Drumrolls. Oh yes, we're going to really find out what you're made of now. Kicking off with quite a juicy one, what's a piece of creative advice you always ignore but it works for you? I think I told you before about this one balance work and life yes that was something we discussed at length on Monday in the episode then if you've not yet listened please do tune in but balance work-life balance it's it's not for everyone is it no I think some people a lot of people would like to give you advice right and they say you have to balance work and life in order to be creative and I think that thinking of balance work and life a lot of people think it's about two things that separate you either work or you have your life you have to balance them but for me it's about integrating them and make it fun and you know when balance work and life that the separation make me feel like the biggest failure because I can't separate the two, then you have to follow your own instinct of what works for you.

1:33So it's about like adjust and integrating the work-life balance.

1:37Pum Lefebure:Yeah, you do you, as they say. You do you, yeah. I mean, you can listen to podcasts and you can listen to your mom, your aunt, but at the end of the day, it's your life. do whatever works do what makes you happy but remember remember to remember to have a holiday now and again you go on holiday right all the time

2:05because i travel a lot for work so i go for a shoot in la and then i would stay over the weekend nice go to the spa or i'll go to europe to do an installation in germany and then i would just go to see Venice Biennale on a weekend. So my weekend, if I travel, I usually, you know, on the weekend, it's when I like to do a lot of solo travel. I'm a solo traveler. I like to go to the museum, walk the street of different city, try new food, see new colors. And I don't really like to share that with anyone. It's my time to like, I just want to absorb and be magnetic to everything that's throwing at me.

2:54And that time by myself is when I get a lot of ideas.

2:59Pum Lefebure:Yeah, same. I'm a solo traveler because of work. And now and again, my husband, Tom, I'll say to him, do you want to come? And I'll be like secretly thinking, I kind of want him to come, but I mostly don't want to because then I can just do whatever I want and have fun and have an adventure. Not that he's, you know, dictating anything, but, and then he'll go, oh, you'll be work. You'll be busy. You'll be working. And I'll go, oh, okay then. Okay. And then I just have the best time. I mean, travel to me and a lot of people give me the greatest inspiration. I really, really believe that if you're a designer, you have to see a lot.

3:39You know, you have to see a lot. You really have to understand different culture, especially when you do global work. You know, if the clients say, oh, there's this thing going on in Asia, you have to be able to envision it. Reading a book or just looking at a film is not the same thing. Put yourself in the country, that doesn't speak English and be kind of sponge to the, you know, be, it's really important to be a student of culture at all time. Yeah, I agree.

4:16Pum Lefebure:There's nothing more wonderful and it's so restorative for the soul. When did you last feel completely out of your depth and what happened next? Or is Pum somebody who just cracks on, rolls their sleeves up and says, I'll make this happen. yeah i usually just do it yes i hate to say it but just like you know whatever throwing at me i was like okay i'll try yeah usually i because i enjoy trying new things you know yeah and maybe maybe when like four years ago when i had to try ai for the first time you know because i was like what is this thing I don't know how it's work how it's gonna work and and I was trying to create a campaign called adventure in AI like a and then e-y-e AI for a glasses company eyewear company and I was so frustrated with this stupid machine because I tried to tell them I have a vision in my head to create this eyeball caricature for the campaign.

5:32We call it Eileen, playing off Eileen. I could not get it the way that I can just draw it. So you have to really work with the prompts and pull different reference using the right words. And then for sudden, it was like four o 'clock in the morning. It started taking shape that, OK, this is looking like what I have envisioned in my head. So I was to stay all night and work on it until I get the right prom. And then that's become our character. It was really frustrating. It's taken me three months on mid-journey back then four years ago to get it to where I want it to look.

6:21Pum Lefebure:grief and now of course it's speeded up much faster and you've you've learned the skills to prompt better and yeah rest is history yeah and and it's funny because like my team didn't even want to touch it i was like okay well you guys no one want to touch it i'm gonna touch it i'm gonna because i i as a art director and creative director i have a lot of reference in my head, you know, like because we had to shoot, I can tell it pretty specifically, a view of this eyeball shooting from the lower angle, the light is coming from the left and what lens do we use, all that. So I can get pretty detail.

7:03So sometimes I have to learn the new technology and then kind of show the teams like, hey, look, this is what I kind of be experiment

7:14Pum Lefebure:with you guys should try that's brilliant i love that i'm the same i just don't overthink it i'm like okay what is this thing let's just crack on and experiment and play and yeah see what happens now i hope i'm laughing because i don't i might know the answer to the next question what's a small ritual or habit that makes your day better i told you one already it's like Setting up, you know, like having a cup of, you know, the tea, the same tea that I've been drinking for the 20 years. The other ritual is taking a shower twice or three times a day. Oh, wow. Really? Why is that? Is that because you work out during the day?

8:01No, it's like in the morning I can't, I can't function without a shower. it's just because I was I was born and raised in Bangkok Thailand and that was really hot country so you get used to you know getting up and and just like shower and then before you come home go to bed and shower and even here sometimes in the winter time I still do I don't know there's something about like the water you know hitting your head and it's just like wash away everything and I do a lot of thinking. I do a lot of sketching in my shower.

8:41Pum Lefebure:It's funny. Yeah, it's just, you know, sometimes it's all like foggy and I start drawing something. Yeah, it's a really fun ritual. No, I get it. There's nothing nicer than getting all clean and into some fresh pajamas for bed. Yeah, but then in the morning you have like different scents to wake you up, you know. I'm very sensitive to scent. It's put me in different moods. And I have like three different kinds of soap, three different kinds of shampoo, you know, depends on the mood that I'm in. I love that. Any brands that you can recommend? Oh my gosh, any brand do I recommend? I mean, I like A-Soap.

9:25That's a good one, you know, for the soap. Do you ever steal the soap in hotels?

9:34uh maybe like you know when it's like cool and like i remember i went to this hotel in nice and it was like so beautiful and it's so open the packaging so i like like good packaging you know who doesn't i know it's like oh this and you know take that home with you but you know

9:55Pum Lefebure:i don't i did something yeah i think you're allowed to i think i think it's part and parcel or you'd use it anyway. So I saw someone on Instagram. She's a really famous traveler and she's take every key from every hotel. It's not like sometimes it's key card. It's like key key. I was like, wow, that's so crazy. Wow. Okay. I've not heard of that one. Yeah. And I saw like a collection of keys. I don't know. Sometimes people just like collecting things. I used to, but not anymore. I'm just like, okay, whatever. Speaking of guilty pleasures, what's a guilty pleasure you'd defend to the death? Okay, this is very not me.

10:38You will be surprised. I quite like Disney World. Oh.

10:46Pum Lefebure:Well, there's nothing wrong with that. It is a joy on steroids. Like if, I don't know, have you been? No, I've never been, but I'd absolutely love to go. Okay, so like, you know, people are surprised because I always appear as like a sophisticated, high fashion person. I love Disney World. You know, where can you get that pure magic in a day? Like imagine you going in in the Disney world during Christmas time. And like we I used to take Sophie, my daughter, go to Disneyland every other Christmas. And it's pure magic for kids. And to be able to see kids face and how they see the parade or Cinderella for the first time in their life.

11:38It's just like that's so magical, you know, to see someone. You turn around, you see grandpa wearing Mickey Mouse ear matching grandma and a granddaughter. It's like this is the only place in the world that you don't look silly. Right. And it's not just like princess and prince. And then, you know, in the afternoon, you go and ride the Space Mountain and it's so fast and it's going and you scream your lung and on the top of your lung. and it's just putting you in that different element.

12:14Pum Lefebure:You can be a kid again. Yeah, and it's fun for the whole family because I remember my parents was visiting from Bangkok and it was like my parents and Jake's parents and Sophie. So we got two sets of grandparents and then us and then Sophie. And we just had a really good memory, you know, with going to Disney World. And I think Walt Disney is genius. You know, this is an example of a place that is completely manufactured and imagined and put it in together that for all of us to experience with multiple generations. I think that's quite rare. Yes, it really is. And, you know, who doesn't love Goofy?

13:04Yeah. And, you know, I think Disney, everything that they do at the Disneyland, it's very well run business, you know, except the only thing I don't like is the lines because sometimes the line is so long. So I always buy the Fast Pass. Oh, dear. And then the popcorn is like a billion, like just like overpriced popcorns and, you know, everything in there. But it's fun to put yourself in a place that is really not you.

13:39Pum Lefebure:Yeah, I get it. I love it. You can escape. You can pretend to be a princess for a day or a prince. Yeah, or you can go into the Star Wars. Yeah, I was going to say. It's so amazing. You walk in, there's like Stromtupper walking all over. I know. Next thing you know, you see like that waiter behind you. You're kind of like, what? It's fun. It's like being in a movie. Oh, you know, I've got to do it. I've got to go. Yeah, it's fun to go with kids. So last year we took one of our friends and her two kids went with us and it was so fun. Was it? I'm going to have to put that on my calendar for next year.

14:20Pum Lefebure:That's a dream I haven't quite got around to fulfilling. So thanks for making me feel like I can get excited about it. Speaking of memories and good times, what's a scent or a smell that instantly takes you back to a memory? I'm such a candle addict. Like I have so many candles in my house. So when, where would I go? I buy, you know, beautiful lavender, rosemary in South France or in Italy, in Thailand. So I always buy candles everywhere I go. So when I come home, I want to smell, I want a room to smell like Chateau Momong in L.A. And I just light that scent. Or I'm doing this project that it feels like, you know, the Mediterranean and you lighting something.

15:09So like scents is part of the creative process for me. Recently, I went to Thailand to visit my parents. And then we went to southern Thailand to Koh Samui. we stay at the full season where they film um white lotus oh very nice yeah and they have like incredible spa so i went to spa like twice and the masseuse gave me this oil this thai oil oh my god it smells so good so this is like the massaging oil or the oil that you can put you know behind your ear when you have a little bit headache and this sense is just taking me to that three-hour massage hearing the ocean you know outside and bird chirping and my whole body's just melt away it's literally a therapy in a bottle okay i want something next time i have to buy like a bunch and then send it to my friends but it's you just need to go back just need to go and have some more yeah but like when when you're at a zoom meeting and the clients start to get you know a little 10 so i'm just like just get the oil out start sniffing oh there she is pump she's sniffing the oil again i'm good i'm good you know do whatever

16:34Pum Lefebure:to get your day get you through the day absolutely that tea and biscuits and a bit of nice scent i love it um this is a quite a quirky one i like that you've chosen this one if your creativity were a mythical creature what would it be um it will be a unicorn mermaid oh okay i didn't know one such thing existed there is not existed i'm combining them because i think it would be cool to be able to fly over the rainbow and then dip right down into the ocean and swim like a mermaid because you know unicorn it's like the summarize of like imagination you like go up into the sky fly over the rainbow it's very limitless and dreamy up there and then you can like dive yourself as you you kind of fly around and board up there you're just going to go visit your friends under the ocean so you would just like dip down and become a mermaid and dive into this mystery of under the ocean and the deep dark sea yeah this sounds very like you never sit still never be bored yeah i can okay i'll allow this you can be a hybrid mermaid unicorn brilliant we have we have to it's more modern you know to not be in like one bucket well it's very creative as well why do you have to choose one thing why can't you have two i love it love it buy one get one free what's the oddest compliment you've ever received this was like a potential client who is very famous in advertising industry and we got uh the client we got them as a client and i asked I always ask a client, why did you pick us?

18:27Or can you give me one word that describes Design Army? I always ask a client, new client, that because I want to see how people see our work. It's clever. And he say, your work, if I have to describe in one word, would be awkward beauty. And I was like, oh, awkward beauty. Interesting. thing so can you explain that a little bit more what do you mean by that he say it's unconventional our work has a unconventional qualities that is different uh it's not it's beautiful but it's a little bit odd it's quirky it's imperfect and um he say it's polished beautifully but it's always like really funny it's always have an underlying humor at the same time but um at the end of the day it's quite magnetic and memorable wow and I thought whoa that's like the best answer I ever get from a client yeah awkward beauty it's like design army like vibe is awkward beauty and i love it yeah that's that's the kind of answer you want isn't

19:49Pum Lefebure:it somebody's actually really thought about it yeah yeah love it okay this one always intrigues me what's a superstition you secretly or not so secretly follow feng shui oh yes i'm you know grew up, I'm half Thai, half Chinese, and I so believe in feng shui. And this is how it's all about how energy is flowing in the space. You know, like, for example, every office that I have, I have to have a solid wall behind me, because it's representing mountain. Yeah, it's representing mountain and you know you are your success will be support by something and then in front of me can be like window and other thing a lot of people make mistake let's say if they have an office in New York they want to see outside right so for example they would turn the desk around so the desk is facing out so they can see the view and the back of them is the door oh no that's not good that's not good because in chinese um chinese belief is like that it's like you will get stabbed in the back because you don't know what's coming you want to be able to face face what's this coming i like that so yeah so that is like you know it's called like the power position of your desk in your bedroom on the other hand you would always position your bed diagonal from the door right never ever to have the door like the bed aligned with the door that's called the death position and that's very unlucky okay i think i'm all right in this house yeah you have to look at your bedroom it's so it affects every part of your life this is like real story I'm not kidding no no I'm not joking my uncle who is who passed away in the 90s when I was a student you know and I remember went to his you know went to his house because he was just passed and my grandma was there too and uh they and my mom was there so we all flew from thailand and my grandma was saying right away it's like you know he passed away because his bed is at death position and like literally it was the bed because it's a big king bed but then his side is the one that facing the door oh gosh it's like maybe leave like there's a spirit like when you sleep the spirit will take you away oh my goodness and then i was just like oh my god as much i i think it was crazy feng shui i as i get older i become quite like i believe yeah in the flow of energy yeah no i mean we are energy aren't we so it makes sense although i did prefer talking about disney world i don't want to die no no no it's it's good though it's actually a common sense if you look at if someone designed a house or if you design an office or you know have a small small retail store like look up feng shui for interior i will it's very good yeah and it's common sense and this you know some some interior designer So, especially in Asia, they would really have to study this because that's what Asian people believe.

23:39Pum Lefebure:Yeah, it's amazing. It's incredible. I might do that myself and just make a few tweaks just in case. Now, we're sticking in the house and we're going to sort of imagine a dinner party. Who would be your dream guest, dead or alive? This is a really good question. Recently, a couple of weeks ago, I watched a Netflix documentary of Martha Stewart. And I think she, I would like to have a dinner with her. She's had an interesting life. I mean, she revolutionized everyday living. You know, she started her business at 50 years old. I didn't know that. And she make home living something so mundane, like growing vegetable or making a pie or create a pasta into an art form.

24:35You know, like her magazine, you remember back in the 2000s, it's shot beautifully. And everything, every like boring housework, things become quite beautiful. And she make a business out of it. she sold a company for a billion dollars i mean she's become you know one of the most successful women back in 2000s and then of course she went to prison because of you know uh what she did she i don't know with the insider trading or you know it was allegedly allegedly yeah yeah so I don't know. So she went, but she's open about it. And then she went to jail for six months. And then she came out stronger and then continue with her business.

25:27And then next thing you know, she has a show with Snoop Dogg. I know, she's living the dream. I mean, next thing you know, she's on the cover of Sport Illustrated at age 82. You know, this is someone who is not just a businesswoman who has a vision. She is a pop culture icon. She's managed to stay relevant across all these decades. And I would like to have dinner with her.

25:56Pum Lefebure:Oh, yeah. I mean, that is amazing. You'd be like, tell me all your secrets and pour her a big glass of wine. yeah and i'm sure like you know the the dinner party hopefully is her beautiful dinner party oh yeah to experience oh yeah we can make that happen all beautiful flowers and ornaments beautiful lots of scented candles yeah but that's you know that's someone who has vision and it's go back to what you and i were talking about like if you have to have a passion about something whatever that passion is make that your thing make that a business because then work will never become a work your day-to-day you just working on your passion and that's how to live life um you know do it foolish really i love that now we're gonna have a quick fire round okay sweet or salty salty uh what emoji do you overuse the scream that one i use that one for everything from like oh my god i can't believe this too i'm so excited like i use that for because i feel like out of the 4 000 emoji out there that one is the most expressive it really is i like that one that's a good one i use the eyes a lot but that's part of my branding um now then we have a question from the previous guest that we have this nice little chain thing going on and our previous guest was jeff staple and he would like to know if you could only use one typeface for the rest of your life what would it be it would be accident grotesque.

27:43I love the, you know, it was designed in 1800 and it's way better than Hervetica. But it's, you know, it's just so beautifully crafted and it's super classic. But it's sans serif that it can work on any client, really. And yeah, it's not our fonts now. It used to be Design Army. old font. But it's cool. I love it.

28:14Pum Lefebure:Amazing. And now, in the spirit of the chain, what is your question for our next guest? Okay. So my question for the next guest is, imagine if you just received the news that the comet is coming to Earth and we all gonna die. Right? So you have two choices. One, to stay here on earth in peace with your family or two you're gonna board a big spaceship going to mar would you choose and what would you do and and why are you allowed to take anyone with you or is it just you you can take your family with you yeah okay that changes but maybe yeah not not just one person it's not just like okay bye husband wife

29:12yeah so like you know it's like me jake sophie our dog like your katie family yeah yeah you can you can stay here together or you can hop on the spaceship i don't want to be left to face death

29:29Pum Lefebure:Death alone, pump, don't leave me. Don't leave me. Don't leave me. What would you do? What would you do? It depends. Are we talking about Kim Stanley Robinson, Red Mars, where colonization's happened and there's a bubble and everybody can live there happily and safely, sort of. Might lose a finger. No, it's like Mars, like right now. Ugh, I'd stay and take the hit. I would just accept my fate. but anyway that's it's not up to me it's up to our next guest yes it has been so lovely welcoming you to the creative being podcast this week thank you so much for your time thank you so much for everything that you do we are the big fan of creative booms and you know all the things that you have done for our industry it's very admirable thank you so much

30:27Thank you.