In short
California Gothic is a Cujo episode built from six speculative audio pieces created for a Los Angeles multimedia installation, California Gothic, imagining what beloved LA places would sound like after collapse. The project asks what memories reverberate once a place is gone, and frames “aftermath” as quiet stillness between endings and what comes next.
Guests (backgrounds)
The episode’s main guest is Gina Delvac, a podcast showrunner/audio creator/curator known for Call Your Girlfriend, Bandsplain, and Lost Notes Groupies. She co-created California Gothic with James Kim, who is Lemonada’s EP of original programming; he previously made Moonface, worked on Magnificent Jerk, and showran HBO-TCM’s Talking Pictures. (Emily Friedlander is absent; Andrea Dominick hosts.)
Key claims
Spoken audio should be recognized as art, not just commercial output; audio slows listeners down and enables intimate, shared attention; aftermath supports imagining better futures without denying present pain.
Notable examples
“Shadow 39” (Chateau 39 lanes in Koreatown, later swallowed by a sinkhole), “Frogtown” (LA River area paved into a “necessary high-value economic zone”), “Southwest Museum Tunnel” (sealed tunnel tied to the Southwest Museum of the American Indian), “Darkroom” (Barnsdall Park darkroom memories), “Echoes” (Echo Park Lake interviews and community rituals), and “Sunset Strip” (sinkhole mythologized as luxury displacement).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroducing California Gothic
0:45 to 2:24
Discussion about the multimedia installation California Gothic and its themes.
“two of the most creative minds working in audio storytelling today.”
Interview with Gina Delvac
2:24 to 2:59
Gina Delvac discusses the California Gothic project and its themes.
“why it's time for spoken audio to be recognized as a form of art as much as it is a commercial output, and what's in store for the project beyond California Gothic, and how you can get involved.”
Exploring the Concept of Aftermath
2:59 to 6:15
Gina and Andrea delve into the themes of memory and aftermath in California Gothic.
“Tell us a little bit about what is California Gothic and how did this project come together?”
Creative Interpretations of Los Angeles
6:15 to 11:45
Gina shares insights on various creative pieces submitted for California Gothic.
“So it's very freaky, like post-apocalyptic imagery that questions kind of, I think one way that you would put it to me before was what memories remain?”
The Role of Audio in Art
11:45 to 14:00
Exploration of how audio can create intimate experiences and provoke thought.
“Like, what do you see as sort of the untapped potential right now?”
Exploring the Aftermath Concept
14:00 to 18:40
Discusses the significance of the aftermath theme in storytelling and creativity.
“but it does become greater than the sum of its parts.”
California Gothic Story - Shadow 39
18:48 to 24:01
Narrates a reflective story about the Shadow 39 bowling alley and its memories.
“It was called the Chateau 39, but lots of people would call it the Chateau 39, like it was some big mansion in the hills.”
California Gothic Story - Final Reflections
24:01 to 28:00
Continues the narrative, exploring loss and emotional connection to the environment.
“Angel Carreras, the Thai Boxing Institute, Venice.”
Reflections on Frogtown and the LA River
28:00 to 29:16
Explore the emotional connection and memories tied to Frogtown and the LA River as gentrification transforms the landscape.
“That small sliver of the city along what used to be the LA River.”
The History of the Southwest Museum
29:16 to 31:27
Learn about the Southwest Museum's history, its founder Charles Lummis, and its fate after closing.
“The rest of me is here, thinking about the last night in Frogtown.”
Show all 18 chapters
The Southwest Museum Tunnel: A Journey Through Time
31:27 to 36:19
Discover the significance and unique features of the Southwest Museum Tunnel and its current state.
“There's an inscription on the arch, the Southwest Museum.”
Photography and Memories: Darkroom Experiences
36:19 to 41:53
Delve into the nostalgic experiences of developing photographs in a darkroom and the impact on creative expression.
“Sophie Bridges, Barnsdoll Park Darkroom, East Hollywood.”
The Evolution of Photography: Film to Digital
41:53 to 42:07
Reflect on the transition from film to digital photography and its implications on capturing moments.
Reflections on Photography and Reality
42:07 to 44:38
Explore the emotional connection and philosophical thoughts behind photography.
“I think there was something about taking the picture, waiting to finish the role, waiting to develop the role and then getting to print.”
Echo Park Lake: A Personal Connection
44:38 to 46:35
Hear personal stories highlighting the significance of Echo Park Lake.
“This is a homemade ice cream, like artesanal.”
Memories and Cultural Identity at the Park
46:35 to 50:58
Discover how Echo Park Lake has been a cultural hub for Angelenos.
“It's a community park, so everybody just comes, walks around to their own things.”
The Transformation of Sunset Boulevard
50:58 to 56:08
Learn about the impact of urban development on Sunset Boulevard and its culture.
“I couldn't find the fisherman or the woman who fed geese for 24 years.”
Nature's Reflections
56:08 to 56:41
Explore the imagery of wildlife and water in California's landscape.
“Coyotes yawn awake in the shells of condos and gather along the escarpment to listen.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:08Hey guys, it's Andrea Dominic here with Cujo, a podcast about culture in the age of platforms. My trusty co-host Emily Friedlander is off on a well-deserved vacation this week, so we decided to do something a little different for this episode before we get back to our regular programming next week. If you listened to our July Rather report, you might have heard that I recently had the opportunity to participate in a multimedia gallery installation here in LA called California Gothic. And it dives into the question of what Los Angeles and the lives of those who live there will look like after collapse.
0:42California Gothic is the brainchild of Gina Delvac and James Kim, two of the most creative minds working in audio storytelling today. Gina is a podcast showrunner, audio creator, and curator who you might know from projects like Call Your Girlfriend, Bandsplain, and Lost Notes Groupies. James is the EP of original programming at Lemonada, and he previously made the fiction podcast Moonface, the Apple TV documentary series Magnificent Jerk, and was the showrunner for the HBO-TCM show Talking Pictures. For California Gothic, Gina and James commissioned audio creators, journalists, writers, and artists, myself included, to imagine a future where their favorite place in Los Angeles no longer exists, and then to create a speculative audio story about it.
1:28It could be short prose, an intimate fiction scene, an ambient piece, or something totally surreal that doesn't fall into any of those things. They ask, what memories reverberate from this place once it's gone? What memories can still be heard? What have we lost? The pieces were created in less than a week and played as an accompaniment to a larger multimedia installation called the National Museum of the Aftermath by the interdisciplinary artist Colleen Smith. And while California Gothic was, at the time anyway, a one-off event, I was so moved by the vision and creativity of these experimental pieces, which range from sound collages to surrealist sci-fi to letters from our future selves, that we thought it would make for a sweet summer treat to feature them here on Cujo.
2:15So on today's episode, we're playing six of those pieces, each imagining a different place in Los Angeles as remembered in a post-apocalyptic future. But before we get into that, Gina joins us for a quick chat about the meaning of California Gothic, why it's time for spoken audio to be recognized as a form of art as much as it is a commercial output, and what's in store for the project beyond California Gothic, and how you can get involved.
2:58Hey, Gina, welcome to Cujo. Hey, Dre. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Tell us a little bit about what is California Gothic and how did this project come together? Yeah, I mean, California Gothic is one of my favorite ways to think about what the experience of growing up in Los Angeles is like living here. If you've ever lived here, the sense of California Gothic is extreme, that despite the sunshine, surfers, beautiful people, wellness culture, there's always an underbelly. And sometimes that is gentrification. Sometimes that is fire. Sometimes that is other like force majeure type events.
3:35But often it's sort of creepy, crawly, exquisite nooks and crannies that you get to explore as like longtime Californians. And so that was sort of the invitation into the theme. So how did the project end up coming together? Where was your head at? You're a veteran audio creator and producer and general creative yourself, but this is definitely certainly a departure from the world of producing podcasts. Totally. Yeah, this was a really fun mix of like inspiration from the art world, collaboration in the form of getting to work with the incredible podcaster and creator himself, James Kim, and then inviting in amazing creators that we know through more collaboration.
4:16So Occidental Arts Gallery had this open call for proposals as part of an exhibition by the multimedia artist Colleen Smith. And Colleen Smith's work includes film, kind of video art type works, as well as creating quilts. So she's known for building these incredible environments. and she partnered with this project that's called the National Museum whose goal is sort of to both like provoke and question the idea of nationality and what happens in a museum space at the same time as having drinks with James Kim and we're both asking like where is the art of audio going as podcasts have become both sort of heavily commercial but also very marketing oriented And he had said this, had a great post after he was on Dane Cardiel's show, This Is TV Now, where he said, you know, literature, film, music have performance spaces.
5:13They have commercial spaces, but we also recognize them as art. So where was the room for spoken audio? So when I popped into this gallery and saw what Colleen Smith was doing, which was cultivating a really vibey space with seating and an open call, inviting creators to come in and put on programming, I was like, oh, how do we bring the art of audio into a more gallery or into a more rarefied space? but that also we get to experience together. I think some of the inspiration was like, it's really rare to listen as a group of people. And walking into this gallery space into Colleen Smith's exhibition sparked my idea that here was a place where essentially like elevated brain rot, where with beautiful imagery, nice lighting, gorgeous quilting she'd put in there, really intentional chairs and space, you could sort of emulate a living room where you had enough visual material to wash over you and that might provoke space to let your mind expand and listen.
6:13And specifically, her iteration of this project is called the National Museum of the Aftermath, right? So it's very freaky, like post-apocalyptic imagery that questions kind of, I think one way that you would put it to me before was what memories remain? How do we choose to create memory and preserve memory from spaces we interact with and places we love? And you really like took that thing that she's meditating on with some of the videos in this space that ended up running in tandem with the audio pieces, which were these sort of lo-fi, eerie videos taken out in the high desert in California that felt sort of like they could be anywhere.
6:50And it's kind of a post-apocalyptic setting and it very much evoked aftermath, which is a really interesting concept to play with. Absolutely. One of the things that is the framing idea when you enter the gallery, which unfortunately the show is closed now, is like, what does it mean to be living in the aftermath of multiple endings. And I think that was part of the spark for James and me about what is the California Gothic? Like, how do you sort of revel in temporality, but also ephemerality? And so you put out this call and you ended up finding out a slot was available, but very, like, what was it like a week or so before?
7:26Yes. A week before the date. And so it came together really last minute. So how did you guys proceed from there? And how did the nature of that kind of end up shaping what came to be from how California Gothic ended up taking shape, at least in this first iteration. Originally, I was thinking of how can we create a home for works that haven't gotten enough attention? And one of the works I was thinking of is I included my friend Sarah Blank's piece in the show that was like a ghost regatta on the Salton Sea. That's part of a collection that she's been developing called California Bloodbath. And I think that pushed us into the idea of California Gothic, James in his ambition and, you know, incredible foresight had the idea of like, let's push this and see what new work would some of our favorite creators make with this prompt.
8:17And so that was like the setting the timer, like cartoon gun that says bang when you shoot it and a little flag comes down. And to our great delight, so many friends who are incredible creators, yourself included, began pitching ideas of places that they wanted to commemorate as if they were gone, writing original pieces. In your case, you added score and sound design and like amazing elements. In some cases, James kind of added that beauty and polish. And so for the pieces you'll hear later in the show, those final mixes and decor come courtesy of James Kim, the one and only. And so talk a little bit just about the scope of what folks submit it because the prompt was kind of just a couple of sentences that you guys sent us an email.
9:02And at least for me, when I was there listening to the show, I was pretty blown away by the breadth of ways that all of these really talented writers and audio creators chose to interpret it. What did you make of all that? And what did it feel like just to give people like a little taste of what they're about to hear? Yeah, I mean, it was incredible, especially for those of us that live in LA. Like, you know, I grew up here just like you, Dre. And And so there's so many nooks and crannies that feel like the huge constellation of what makes it such a special place. And so we had suggestions ranging from Frogtown, like the Riverwalk area, to the Southwest Museum tunnel that Molly Lambert talked about.
9:45And your sinkhole piece that looks at the recent sinkhole in West Hollywood. What if that really had swallowed the entire Sunset Strip? It is another single piece from Jen Swan that imagines the shadow 39 bowling lanes. And if you don't live in LA or these places don't seem familiar, just imagine the most exquisite tiny gems of your city or town. That's what it felt like to receive this sort of like message of so many beloved places and so many ways that people took that. Some people went in classic audio creator, journalist form to the streets to start doing interviews to get the true natural sounds of those places.
10:26Some people started writing from their hearts and imagination. One of the best lines from the prompt that James sent out to everyone was, the vibe we're going for is dreamy, nostalgic, even Lynchian. What memories reverberate from this place? What memories can still be heard? What have we lost? and so I think that framing of love and loss gave kind of incredible stakes to all these pieces oh and there's one more I should mention and then Angel Carreras who imagined the Thai Boxing Institute his whole piece was natural sound so he went out and recorded real Muay Thai happening at the Thai Boxing Institute with no narration with no additional framing and so yeah I think some of the joy of listening was like how many different ways really brilliant people we respect could take a prompt like this.
11:16Talk a little bit more about that, the joy of listening and like the role that you see of audio and words and writing going along with audio and sound design, like the role and creative potential all that has right now in our current media environment, because we're kind of becoming such an audio oriented society right now in terms of how we consume media and entertainment and art right now. And yet, like you said earlier, audio creation as sort of participatory kind of shared art form, it's not really like looked upon as that. Like, what do you see as sort of the untapped potential right now?
11:51What might it be that people don't realize or think of audio that way that you're trying to bring with this project overall? Yeah, I think audio slows us down in a time in our society where everything is really speedy and it's super intimate and it creates this kind of intense companionship but that also can be awkward or it can be strange and so I think that's part of what was so cool to play with in a physical space surrounded by friends and other people like both creators and participants but then people who came to listen it almost felt like being underwater where like time expands your brain lobes start to re-puff you can't swipe to the next thing that fidgety energy is present and it's not necessarily fully suppressed but it kind of flows into something new and so I think like one of the great things like anybody that's ever had a driveway moment listening to public media or also just the sense of a long conversation with a friend you know like oh I had to recharge my car battery because we sat in the parked car listening to the radio and accidentally left a light on.
12:57Like that sense of world expansion is what I think audio can do. And I don't think it has to be separated from the visual, but it's usually such a private experience. And so I think there was something really cool about like surviving through the awkwardness of what it felt like to listen together. And then to my great delight, a lot of people stuck around after the show and got pizza, got drinks, like new friendships were made. And that was one of my great goals of this of like, we're all starved for more touching grass, more human connection. So what does it feel like to be in a space of absorbing other people's voices and messages without it being sort of the flashbang of a live performance?
13:42Yeah. And it's different than just hearing, you know, even going to like a live podcast event where you hear two people talking because there's a real artistry to the sound art and sound design of it all, even for the pieces that were just straight up, written pieces that somebody may have been reading. And of course, as you mentioned, James added sound design to it, but it does become greater than the sum of its parts. And we spend so much time looking, but to capture the sounds of our environment, I feel like is really like, it opens up a whole other palette of colors to me, for lack of a better way to put it, which I think is what's so exciting about audio.
14:15I mean, I love the way that this project also sort of bleeds into like, you know, the sound art and like experimental sound space, which is kind of its own scene in L.A. and of course in other cities, too. But it's a really like beautiful gradient, I think. And I think this bridges the gap so wonderfully between those two worlds. Thanks. Yeah, it's really fun. And your piece was amazing. People should listen to the end to hear Dre's incredible first fiction foray. People had such a broad spectrum of responses and they were all really passionate and focused and sort of like confident in what they wanted to say.
14:48And I think this isn't something that's just necessarily specific to Los Angeles or California. But what is it about aftermath that makes it such a rich topic right now to mine and that feels so resonant for folks? I think, I mean, first of all, it's a gorgeous word. And it's such an evocative way to describe this feeling that we all have. And I love that, again, that curatorial language about multiple endings. I think we all have imagery of apocalypse in our minds frequently right now, or like zombies, burnout, fire, warfare, water wars, things that are like feel terrifying, but also close at hand.
15:26aftermath to me feels a little more like the quiet of what comes next and so that sort of sejura experience of like being in a moment of stillness between action and next action and what comes next I think felt to me like it expanded my heart space around how to encounter and live through what we've been living through for five ten years now while also and this is like one of my greatest goals in creativity and in life is like to create new possibilities. The podcaster and journalist Rio Eveleth, you might have caught their CBC documentary called Tested that was about gender testing at the Olympics.
16:12They used to make a show all about the future and futurism. And they had a piece of merch I love that was imagine better futures. And I think when you talk about aftermath, you also allow yourself to imagine better futures without discounting the present and the past and without discounting the pain and suffering that many of us have experienced. Aftermath just is potent. And it's like, you know, we joke about using phrases like the before times to talk about our lives pre-COVID. I think aftermath is a cool, what are the after times that also imply what comes next. And for me, what can come next is people coming together, is new ideas emerging, is like the collision of community, creativity, collaboration, and just like deep commitment to one another and not just systems.
17:07And so, you know, I think there's a lot of people right now that are really interested in actually the total disillusion of lots of systems. And so like what happens when lots of things dissolve, but without us becoming disillusioned. So I think the idea of illusion and disillusionment that's sort of inherent in Aftermath and the California Gothic, you really hear it in those pieces. Yeah. So what are your hopes for what this might become in the future or if there's any plans thus far? I know this came together as a one-off, but the response has been so overwhelming that you've been talking about wanting to make it a continuing thing and potentially growing it.
17:44Definitely. Yeah, it has been so it was so cool to see. And I think I just love this theme of California Gothic. And so I think my hope is the next gathering will be in Los Angeles in October. And those that want to submit additional pieces with the idea of California Gothic, it seems like a perfect time, a little spooky season thematic. and event itself doesn't have a name yet. So I know the Cujo audience is like extremely clever and smart. Please, if you have naming ideas, if you have a location idea, or if you want to submit a piece, get in touch. I'm going to make sure that Andrea and Emily have all my details.
18:24Gina Dalbeck, thank you so much for coming on and for sharing these lovely works and for making this happen in the first place. Thank you also to James Kim. Anything else people should know? Listen to the end for Dre's piece because it's so good. Okay. Thank you. No, thank you so much. And now, without further ado, California Gothic.
18:47Jennifer Swan, Chateau 39 Lanes Bowling Alley, Koreatown.
19:06It was called the Chateau 39, but lots of people would call it the Chateau 39, like it was some big mansion in the hills. But actually, it was in the lowlands, amidst the blocks upon blocks of boxy concrete strip malls. It got really hot there. There wasn't a lot of shade. People would wait in droves at the bus stops. One time, I drove by and a guy was doing push-ups while he waited. It was called the Shadow 39 because it was on Shadow Place, a tiny little street that ran behind what was then the Metro Stop and the IHOP. You'd barely know it was there at all. Shadow 39 was called Shadow 39 because it had 39 lanes, 20 on one side and 19 on the other.
20:03People would rent these lanes, and then they'd knock down the pins at the end of them.
20:12I lived in the shadow neighborhood once, in my 20s, and then again in my 30s. Moving back and rediscovering the bowling alley felt like revisiting a younger version of myself. I was different, but the places I'd once loved were still the same. Even the signs on the entrance to the bowling alley seemed like they had been there forever. The signs contained all sorts of rules. They had to be from another era, long before mine. No loitering, no skateboarding, no saggy pants. Please pull your pants up or you will be asked to leave. read one of the signs. They were so restrictive that they became silly.
21:05Nostalgic, even. Like relics of adolescence. Walking into Shadow 39 felt like being in junior high again, worrying about which of your undergarments might get you into trouble.
21:29I had my birthday party there one year, a long time ago. I liked it because it was central, and also there was a bar, and also there was a cafe. And also you didn't have to pay all this money the second you walked in, like you have to do at the roller rink across town. I didn't like going to the roller rink on account of all their rules, like no chewing gum and no purses, but I did it begrudgingly for other people's birthdays. It was only after I had my birthday party at Shadow 39, the second time, that I realized I'd had my birthday party there 10 years earlier, too. I'd completely forgotten about it.
22:16It was all a blur. A portion of 2016 I'd chosen to black out, not knowing that things would only get worse from there.
22:30It was after my second time having a birthday party at Shadow 39 that the sinkhole swallowed it whole. It took all 39 lanes and all the pins and all the balls along with it.
22:50It started as a water main break, a rupture. The pipe had been more than 100 years old. And one day, it gave out, thrusting water onto the asphalt on Shadow Place. At first, the water had felt good. It was refreshing. Everyone in the strip malls and at the bus stops ran over and rushed to taste it, to play in it. It was hot out, and hydration was hard to come by. Water was expensive. Few of us could afford it. But the rupture turned into a pond, and the pond turned into a pool, and the pool turned into a current that swept us all away.
23:50When the water subsided, the strip malls were gone. Shadow 39 was underground. Nobody went bowling anymore. Nobody has gone bowling since.
24:20Angel Carreras, the Thai Boxing Institute, Venice.
24:42Start with fingers?
24:55Good timing. You don't have a partner start walking towards me. Neutral. I got you with... Chris? John, can you get to the camera?
25:12Uh, who's here though? Kareem. Kareem? I see.
Read the full transcript
25:22So I'm gonna have a hard hair.
25:26Alright, let's go.
25:31One, two, three. Alternating between the head and the body. These are your high percentage weapons.
25:45Bounce.
25:49The timing.
25:53Rhythm.
25:58Well if we consciously break that, we can hide our switch.
26:07Take my step back and reset. Give me a little more to think about.
26:16Start slow.
26:21Low rest, high reward.
26:25Make sense?
27:01All right, y 'all. That is class. I need to circle up. We got Alexis, Al J. And if I can't do it. Hell yeah. Don't bother them. Ask the bigger, ask what you have questions. Thanks a class, y 'all. Good vibes today. Good touch your button, Ryan. And a great guy. We got one team. I'm glad you guys are good. Assistant to the Mops and the Paz. That'd be wonderful.
27:28Hello, how are you? How are you? How are you?
27:40Henry Johnson, Frogtown
27:47I remember how heavy my heart felt, how heavy my legs were. Like they were filled with concrete, the same kind they poured 12 hours later, flattening this place to nothing. This is the most walkable part of Los Angeles and I could barely drag my legs through it because I loved it so much and I knew that it wasn't going to last. That small sliver of the city along what used to be the LA River. Fletcher in the north, down to Egret Park in the south. Riverside in the 5, bounding it to the west. The river, a natural border on the east. As if Alternative 20 wasn't bad enough. Gentrification is bad, but at least it's better than what became of the place.
28:26I walked along the river for the last time. The neighborhood was out. The energy was up. It felt like a funeral and an exaltation. It reminded me of first Fridays like they used to throw. I sat and listened to the people and spoke for a while. I walked some more. I listened to the birds in the park. I smelled the river water for the last time, trying to memorize the smell for these wistful moments in the future when I so badly wanted to be back there. Like how it was. I listened to the water rolling and turning, and I couldn't help but cry. My tears joined in with the water and I became happy that just that smallest part of me had become one with the river.
29:14I wonder where that part of me is now. The rest of me is here, thinking about the last night in Frogtown. The river was dammed and paved over to make a new freeway, the cutely named 555 adjacent to the 5. Unnecessary. The blocks between the two, the 5 and the 555, was turned into a multi-use complex, a quote, necessary high-value economic zone, unquote. The eradication of nature and community, one of the only inland water-adjacent neighborhoods in this city, a place to kayak and bird watch and just breathe a little bit easier. Killing off birds and fish and inspiration. The death of a hub of outsider art and culture and affordability.
29:59Now, when I drive by those buildings at night, I try to count as many lit rooms as I can. There's never more than 40 in that whole complex. A dead economic zone. And it really does look just like a graveyard. These dirty cement boxes looming over the earth. The opposite of the life that used to spring from here. Noise, flora, fauna, fun. But I guess all that wasn't high value enough. I guess it was viewed as unnecessary. Green, replaced by greed. Concrete for water. Frogtown, the first special place I found on my own as a grown-up in this city. Paved over and reduced to just this. Recollection.
30:42I went in the morning to watch the trucks pour the concrete. My heart broke. It has never recovered.
30:56I have forgotten the smell of the river.
31:07Molly Lambert, the Southwest Museum Tunnel, Mount Washington.
31:16At the base of Mount Washington, off a road called Museum Drive, is a tunnel that's been sealed back up. A faux ancient Mayan arch with doors that are permanently locked leads the way into a hole in the mountain. There's an inscription on the arch, the Southwest Museum. The Southwest Museum of the American Indian opened in 1914 and closed permanently in 2022. The museum's extensive collection of Native American and other artifacts has been merged with the collection of the Gene Autry Museum, the museum that deals in Western and Californian history and is famously located directly across from the L.A.
32:09Zoo. The Southwest Museum was the brainchild of Charles Lummis, an early LA settler and booster. Charles Lummis was a historian, a photographer, an archaeologist, and a librarian. He also became the first city editor of the earliest edition of the Los Angeles Times. But Charles Lummis was best known as a champion of historic preservation and Native American rights. Charles Lummis was very progressive for his time, for a rich white guy, but some of his views are obviously antiquated and patrician. He was a mixed bag. As a preservationist, he loved the California Spanish colonial style, and he advocated for the upkeep of California's missions, those adobe temples of death.
33:11Lummis once claimed to have gone blind, and later miraculously recovered his sight. His friend, the naturalist Jean Muir, who Lummis published in a magazine, didn't believe Lummis had ever gone blind at all. The Southwest Museum itself is built in a Spanish colonial revivalist style by the architect Sumner Hunt, who also designed the Bradbury Building, which is in Blade Runner. The Southwest Museum sits on top of the hill, fully emptied of its 236 ,000 artifacts, which are now mostly in storage, one of the largest collections of Native American artifacts, second only to the Smithsonian. Attempts to save the Southwest Museum building stalled out over the years, as it would require$100 million to stabilize the building that sits on an eroding hill.
34:16The 117-acre compound is up for sale now for the aforementioned$100 million. What will happen to the historic museum building and the grounds is anyone's guess. Will it get bought before the hillside is claimed back into the ground by the earth? The 281-foot-long pedestrian tunnel opened in 1920 because the museum felt that it needed a street-level entrance for those who might not want to make the climb up the hill. Recessed niches in the walls of the tunnel were used to display artifacts and dioramas. The path leads to an elevator, which shoots up inside the mountain to the top, taking people to the museum's main entrance.
35:13A friend who went there on school trips recalls that the tunnel produces an extraordinarily strong echo. The tunnel was opened back up briefly in 2016 for an art exhibit where sculptures were placed in the vacant niches. but quickly it turned out that the tunnel floods during extreme rain. The train station, named the Southwest Museum Train Station, is named, like so many things in Los Angeles, for something that no longer exists in the place where it is. The Southwest Museum tunnel may be closed, but there's a light emanating from inside, visible through the crack between the tunnel doors from the street?
36:03What will happen when the hillside crumbles and erodes? Will the museum come crashing down on the trains? Will the tunnel collapse? Or will it just sit there, closed and unused, holding the sounds of 106 years?
36:32Sophie Bridges, Barnsdoll Park Darkroom, East Hollywood.
36:39Step one, exposure. During this step, you will expose the photosensitive paper to light. Hey Michael, it's Sophie. It's been a while. There's this thing that you said on the first day of photo class, which is that you should never mix developer A with developer B because if you do they'll explode. I was thinking about that recently and I realized that that's probably not true at all and like what was actually true was that if you mix developer A and developer B it would just ruin both chemicals and they were probably pretty expensive and the Barnstall Junior Arts Center probably couldn't afford to be like replacing chemicals because kids had messed them up.
37:23So I'm like did you just tell us that it would explode because that would like freak us out enough so that we would remember to never ever ever mix them. I definitely don't blame you if you did. I feel like I would like to think that we all felt grateful to have this dark room that we had access to as kids but also we were kids and we were dumb and we probably would have mixed those things together given the opportunity. But it was really special to have that space to ourselves like what I really remember is coming up in this elevator and the elevator was like tucked into this part of the hill that you would never know was there if nobody had told you and so suddenly you have this like public park and not only is the art center a special part of the park but then we got to be going to this like extra special extra kind of secret classroom that was just like tucked into the hill.
38:27Step two, developer. During this step, the image will appear. There's one set of curtains, and then you round a little corner, and there's a second set of curtains, and things are just bathed in this red light. Except when we had to develop our own film. We would turn off all the lights, and suddenly you would be in pitch blackness. And so we're just there in the dark, twisting this reel. And all you can do is trust that your hands know what they're doing. And the whole place smells like vinegar because of the chemicals, which also turn your fingernails yellow if you don't use tongs, which we were supposed to always use tongs, but I always wanted to put my fingers in there.
39:14And I liked that they turned yellow. Although it kind of felt like it made me a legitimate photographer.
39:24Step three. Stop that. This step prevents further development. There are so many images. Our lives are just kind of about being bombarded with photographs. And then now they're not even real photographs most of the time. and there was something about slowing down and really understanding how we were capturing what we were capturing that I think changed my relationship to images forever. And I do feel really sad if kids don't have that anymore. Step four, fixer. After one minute, your photo is able to be viewed in daylight. When we were printing our photos, we would always have music on, and there was this little CD player in the corner, and you would bring in all of these mixed CDs that you made.
40:21They were on those pastel-colored, very thin little jewel cases. They were CDs that you had burned of whatever songs you were interested in listening to in a given month, and the CDs would always be labeled April 2005, and then the track listing. and it would be like whatever pop songs were kind of on the radio at that time with like classic rock. Like I just remember listening to American Boy by Estelle next to like an Elvis Costello song. And then at a certain point I started bringing in my own CDs and I think you really cared about music and it felt really good to be trusted. I think the music was also like a way that we told time because like I think one class period would be like two and a half cds and time really stretched in the dark room because obviously there are no windows except then there would be like a day in class where we would do photograms and you'd tell us to go collect our leaves and sticks and pebbles and things to lay on the paper and you would fling open this back door that none of us had noticed and light would come streaming in and we would realize that in fact we were on earth and we had been in the park all along.
41:51Step five. Wash. I don't know if you remember this but at some point you decided to do a digital photography class and it met in this computer lab upstairs at the center and it was a very very different space than the dark room and I remember like the first time I brought in a batch of photos for you to look at you were like wow these don't look like your film photos at all they look like a completely different photographer took them and I think I knew what you meant was that they were bad and I think it has to do with waiting. I think there was something about taking the picture, waiting to finish the role, waiting to develop the role and then getting to print.
42:34By the time you print it, you might not even be printing the photo that you were excited about taking at all. I think that does change the way you take pictures a lot. The other thing about it is that it like, I think it makes you more aware of like how futile it is to try to freeze people in time in this way. When I was taking a picture of a person, I was constructing a reality. I wasn't actually capturing reality. And there's always that sadness that you're making this thing that you then work very hard in the darkroom to, like, we print on archival paper and we store everything properly so that they can last hypothetically forever, or at least they can last so many years that we will all be dead.
43:24And so you're making this thing where somebody will be exactly the age and exactly the way they were just on this piece of paper. And like, does that matter? Why does that matter? You know? I mean, I know one of the things in your work that you were known for was these altered Polaroids, which was like a special stock of Polaroid film that when it came out of the camera, the emulsion on the front would still be wet. And so you could take like a toothpick or a little brush and actually mess with the lines. And you'd make these like warped images that looked almost like paintings. And so I know you must have had thoughts about like never actually capturing something that's real.
44:10And I was looking at some of your photos the other day, and I saw so many pictures that you took in the 70s and 80s of people in their 90s and obviously those people aren't alive anymore.
44:25And yeah, I guess I... I wish it's something that we'd gotten to talk about.
44:37Kristen Torres, Echo Park Lake.
44:47This is a homemade ice cream, like artesanal. What does this park mean to you? Well, I grew up around Echo Park. I went to elementary school around here, so it means a lot. I'm a vendor, so I get to sell. That's how I make my money, too. What would it mean for you if this park didn't exist anymore? If it didn't exist anymore? I'll be sad for sure. It's a big part of L.A. culture, so I'll be really sad. yeah I'll be super sad if you're hearing this please don't report me to my AI overlord look I'm between shifts right now and I just got a chance to stare at the sky and caught a really beautiful sunset the kind of sunset you want to share with friends and for a brief moment I felt like I was transported back to a Saturday at the park the kind we used to have it was my last happy memory of Echo Park Lake before everything changed.
45:45There was something inside me that knew I had to document this perfect day at the park. And as most of us creatives tend to do, I let the tape collect dust on an old hard drive. It was one of those, I'll make something tomorrow. And then tomorrow never came. Or when it did, it was not the tomorrow I had hoped for it to be. And sorry for being so vague, but you know that we can't say everything as plainly and as freely as we used to. But if you'll indulge me, I finally got around to making that piece I had promised myself I would make. A not-so-distant time capsule that couldn't feel further away from our reality today.
46:27So here it is, Echoes. A remembrance of a place that was once known as Echo Park Lake. It's a community park, so everybody just comes, walks around to their own things. It's very cute seeing the leaves, the grass, the trees, everything's very aesthetic. If you want to come out just have a time with your friends, perfect place to come to. It's like the one of the rare places where you get to see sort of like the neighborhood come to life in person. Like you know there's very few places these days where you get to just walk in and see your neighbors and like see what's happening around. I just love that you have a little piece of nature that you can come to and there's just like There's animals, birds, people.
47:08It just feels very sort of calming and grounding.
47:20Generations of Angelenos have found respite from the demands of daily life at Echo Park Lake. The lake was originally built as a reservoir for drinking water in the 1860s. It got its name because of the echoes that could be heard during construction. And although the park has lived many lives and has had many identities over the years, it has always been an integral part of the city.
47:48Okay, so I see you have your fishing wire. Can you tell me what brings you to the park and what you're doing today? So it's really just fishing. I brought my fiancé and my two-year-old, my toddler. So they're taking a couple laps. They're gonna hit the playground and I'm buying some time to fish, a mouse. There's a bluegill and bass here, largemouth bass and smallmouth bass. I have caught the smaller fish, which are the bluegill. It's nice. It's like culture. They're selling stuff. It's cute. There's street food, street drinks on the side if you want to come there. Not too pricey, so very calm, very cool to collect.
48:26Who are you here with today? Today I'm here with my dog Uma and she's one of the reasons I come here more often. It's like she loves being out here, she loves chasing the ducks and smelling all the smells and it's sort of like her way of knowing where she is. So yeah, this is our sort of like a evening ritual of whenever we can, we come out here to watch sunset. I'd say it's pretty magical and like I think it's one of the few places where I feel like very at peace and as this park has been there for me through ups and downs and it's like a place where I come to just sort of like collect my thoughts.
49:02It's always been a chill spot like I've brought my kids here, my dogs here, everybody you know it's always been a chill spot for me. I've been coming here since I was a kid. I live in Boyle Heights so that's just down the street and just seeing it grow from you know when I was a child it's just a lot more greener and And I think it's good for the community. You know, as you can see, there's a lot of people, especially on the weekends. And it's just going to create more memories, you know, for generations.
49:34How long have you been coming here to feed the geese? 24 years. 24 years? Why did you start feeding the geese? Because they're hungry. You know, there's nothing to eat in here. Oh, and then you got some apple in there? Apple? Yeah, or whatever, little watermelon, whatever fruit I have. And I give everybody a bite. If somebody's hungry, I give a piece of whatever that I have every day.
50:10What would it mean for you if this park didn't exist? Oh, man, it would suck. I mean, I do have other hobbies that, you know, I do have, but taking fishing away and I guess, you know, this park where, I mean, people are running. So everyone has a hobby, whether it's running, fishing, you know, bringing their children, having a picnic and not having that, it would suck. Yeah, I think it would take away a big part of the culture here, you know, because this has been here forever. and it's just evolved with LA, I think it would definitely take part of the culture away.
50:57I tried to track down some of the people I met at the park that day. I couldn't find the fisherman or the woman who fed geese for 24 years. I heard that the ice cream vendor moved somewhere far away. A community that once was, is lost. I hope families have found a new place to rest in the shade to laugh as they share an ice cream to make memories for the next generation I hope that the man with the dog has a peaceful spot to watch the sunset but with the way things are going in this city I doubt it
51:43Andrea Dominic The Sunset Strip, West Hollywood. It's a tragic day on Sunset Boulevard. That's what the sneakerheads said when the first sinkhole quietly swallowed the intersection of Sunset, Holloway and Palm in the middle of the night. Liquefaction returning that well-trod crossroads of Los Angeles possibility to the sand and water from which it came. All slash. The Sneakerheads were a nomadic tribe of zealots, in perpetual pilgrimage between a network of temples scattered across the Southland, processions of supplicants gathered at their doors in hopes of being invested with a relic of one of their gods.
52:28Nike. Jordan. Supreme. The facade of Supreme now crests just behind the north ridge of the chasm, smooth and alabaster from unremitting sun and tributaries that feed the cataract below. It's believed to have once been adorned in crimson and white script, and before that, scarlet and gold, the vestiges of a prior cosmology known as Rock and Roll, administered here by the Order of Tower Records.
53:00At its height, the Strip was a promised land with no single promise, a profane holy city where every form of longing maintained its own house of worship. The flower children, the billboard queens, the famous in waiting, the rock stars, the runaways, and the exiles all converged here. Those who would settle for nowhere else and those who simply had nowhere else to go, convening within a glittering, disreputable ecosystem of clubs, theaters, diners, motels, and cheap apartments. It wasn't harmony, exactly, that held them together, but a collective faith in becoming otherwise. At first, the sinkhole was dismissed as an anomaly.
53:43A 110-year-old pipe bursting under the accumulated strain of deferred maintenance, fragmented oversight, and cross-jurisdictional finger-pointing. But a week later came a second deluge at Santa Monica and Laurel. Then another in the middle of Melrose, just days after that. What was blamed at first on old pipes would later be understood as the accumulated weight of luxury hotels, digital billboards, and mixed-use brand activations, a landscape of stacked superstructures built to receive pilgrims while displacing what had drawn them. The hoteliers were the last order to arrive. One by one, each destination was replaced by somewhere to stay near it, until the Strip became a city of antechambers, lobbies leading to elevators, elevators to rooms, rooms overlooking other hotels.
54:42There were, at last, more rooms than reasons, and people, to occupy them. Pilgrimage itself became faith. Aspiration was its final creed, sustained by the promise that salvation, enlightenment, nirvana, whatever, waited one floor, one reservation, one gleaming vantage point higher. Capital flowed upward accordingly, while the infrastructure below rusted and groaned beneath the weight of a destination consuming itself.
55:16When the chasm finally took the strip hole, wresting Chateau Marmont from its hillside perch in the east and swallowing Soho House beneath the western rim. Many called it judgment visited upon the faithless. Others blamed the lack of weight, human presence that had once held the land at bay. The land here has never settled. Neon flickers without current. Elevator bells sound from buried shafts. Somewhere beneath the remains of the rainbow, a video poker machine begins its trill, followed by the attendant hum of a bass amp waiting to be played. At dusk, pink taillights climb the eastern bluff, circle the ridge once, then vanish into the mud.
56:08Coyotes yawn awake in the shells of condos and gather along the escarpment to listen. Where the tributaries meet the rim, deer lower their muzzles to drink, their reflections trembling at the brink before spilling over. Sometimes the water takes more than the reflection. Still, pilgrims kneel beside them and peer into the current, searching for the faces they might yet become. What they find appears only for an instant, then slips over the edge. Perhaps that is why they lean closer.
56:52This episode of The Culture Journalist was produced and edited by Emily Friedlander and me, Andrea Dominick. To check out more, head to our Substack. That's theculturejournalist.substack.com. And if you like what you're hearing, leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or share us with friends to help support independent journalism. you
From the publisher
CUJO is a podcast about culture in the age of platforms. Episodes drop every other week, but if you want the full experience, we recommend signing up for a paid subscription. Paid subscribers also get access to our CUJOPLEX Discord and The Weather Report, a monthly episode series where we take stock of where the cultural winds are blowing and tell you what’s rained into our brains. Catch last month’s episode, where we dig into the rise of “waiting-in-line culture” in cities across America, the Spotify vs. Kalshi saga, Lebron James’ post-factual free agency, and more.
Hi pals. While we’re off on vacation this week, we decided to do something a little different for this week’s show.
If you checked out last month’s Weather Report, you probably heard that Andrea recently had the opportunity to participate in a multimedia installation at LA’s National Museum of the Aftermath called “California Gothic” that dives into the question of what Los Angeles, and the lives of those who live there, will look like after collapse.
The project is the brainchild of Gina Delvac and James Kim, two of the most creative minds working in audio storytelling today. For “California Gothic,” they commissioned audio creators, journalists, writers, and artists (Andrea included) to imagine a future where their favorite place in Los Angeles no longer exists, and then to create a speculative audio story about it — short prose, an intimate fiction scene, an ambient piece, or something surreal that doesn’t fall into any of those. They ask: What memories reverberate from this place? What memories can still be heard? What have we lost?
While “California Gothic” was (at the time anyway) a one-off event, we were so moved by the vision and creativity of these experimental pieces – which range from sound collages, to surrealist scifi, to letters from future selves – that we thought it would make for a sweet summer treat to feature them here on CUJO.
Today’s episode features six of those pieces, each imagining a different place in Los Angeles as remembered in a post-apocalyptic future. But first, Gina joins us for a quick chat about the meaning of “California Gothic,” why spoken audio should be recognized as an art form as much as a commercial output, and what’s in store for the project beyond “California Gothic.”
If you have ideas or want to get involved with future iterations of the project, reach out to Gina at gdelvac@gmail.com
California Gothic
Curators
Gina Delvac is a native Angelena and podcast showrunner, audio creator, and curator. Her work includes projects like Call Your Girlfriend, Bandsplain, and Lost Notes: Groupies.
James Kim is the EP of original programming at Lemonada, and he previously made the fiction podcast Moonface, the Apple TV documentary series Magnificent Jerk, and was the showrunner for the HBO/TCM show Talking Pictures.
Contributors
Jennifer Swann: Shatto 39 Lanes bowling alley, Koreatown (18:45)Jenn Swann is a journalist, radio producer, and the writer and host of the podcast series My Friend Daisy. She’s on Substack and Instagram.
Angel Carreras: The Thai Boxing Institute, Venice (24:21)Angel Carreras is a journalist and audio producer. Say hi to him on Instagram and pls listen to whatever econ thing he helped make at NPR.
Henry Johnson: Frogtown (27:40)Henry is an artist and native Angeleno based in Los Feliz. He works in television.
Molly Lambert: The Southwest Museum tunnel, Mt. Washington (31:07)Molly Lambert is a podcaster, journalist, and writer in Los Angeles. She hosts the podcast Mollyworld.
Sophie Bridges: Barndall Park darkroom, East Hollywood (36:30)Sophie Bridges is a writer and audio producer. She's the producer and story editor of the podcast Shell Game, and she lives in the last city on earth (Los Angeles).
Kristen Torres: Echo Park Lake (44:37)Kristen Torres is a freelance podcast and video producer based in Los Angeles. She recently became a great-aunt and feels like her weird aunt powers grow stronger by the day.
Andrea Domanick: The Sunset Strip, West Hollywood (51:42)Andrea Domanick grew up watching the Strip change on Holloway Drive, where the (real) Sunset Strip sinkhole ruptured this summer.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theculturejournalist.substack.com/subscribe




