Why more families than ever are ending up in court over wills.

0:01Coming up in today's episode, three stories that sound incredibly far apart, but actually are weirdly intertwined. The first one, is Katia the new MS? The love bracelets that everyone is obsessed with are increasing in value, but is it actually a good investment? Secondly is the India exam scandal. So student doctors have been paying for their exam papers ahead of time and it's causing huge wealth divides. And third, the great wealth transfer, but it's not actually in regards to how much money is being passed from generation to generation. It is the fact that over the last decade, the amount of families and people that have ended up in huge fights over money has risen by 130%.

0:39We talk about some of the main reasons why we're seeing such an increase in fights and fallouts over money, as well as practical tips to avoid this from happening within your own family. Welcome to The Curve Weekly. This is where we read the finance news so that you don't have to. I'm Abbey Foster. I'm an ACA chartered accountant, founder, author, and finance content creator. And I'm Sophie Hallwright. I used to produce some of the biggest shows in the world. I've now started this podcast to try and understand more about money and the economy. But before we dive in, here is a quick word from today's sponsor.

1:12Strong returns in one year? I mean, you could say luck. But strong returns over 10 years? That's a track record. Find out more about Generate's 10-year track record and see their disclosures in the show notes. Remember though, track record does not guarantee future returns. Abby, before we get into today's episode, let's do a little overview. So Abby is filling in for Vic as she is in New Zealand currently working on, what should we call it? Project TCI. Maybe that's giving too much away. Anyway, welcome back. Thank you so much for filling in for Vic. How has your week been? What's been happening?

1:51Actually, oh my God, should we do in the red or in the green? Yes. So I think I'm in the green because the end of last week I was not feeling good and so at the weekend I think the sort of a lot of women do I was like right everything has to go like all the clothes in my wardrobe I hate they have to go I need to clear out my flat I need to clear out everything and I did I had a purge a full-on purge full purge of my flat I like threw out just even little things like I have this set of like three glasses that I have that I hate and so I bought I know it sounds ridiculous they're just like drinking glasses but they're the wrong shape the wrong size I just don't like them and I think my mum like gave them to me three is sort of a really annoying number exactly and that was the worst part about it it's like it's two or four or six it's never and like and they just were in my cupboard and I would like hand people a glass and then if there was a fourth person it looked weird I would just it would upset me anyway the point of the story is I cleared that out I bought myself these like six and like tumblers I really liked I got all of the clothes out of my wardrobe and I was really ruthless with the stuff that I don't love anymore and I just put them on vented and I've made currently I've got some pending balances but currently I've made 249 pounds selling like a few dresses that were beautiful and I barely wore so I did this recently with uh I'm gonna sell my bike there was a pair of sunglasses I wasn't wearing I've just decided to do the same thing it sort of gets me for some reason if I'm selling something for way less than what I bought it for it's a little dagger to the heart but I've got to get over that because sitting in the wardrobe so much worse exactly is making nothing and actually every time i open my wardrobe it was like busting at the seams i it wasn't making me feel good and some of the dresses just in case i lost weight last year for for lots of reasons but i lost too much weight last year and i bought a load of things at the time that i thought were going to make me feel better i've now gone back to a size that i am very comfortable in but it's bigger than what i was right and i in my head i'm like oh i'll leave them there just in case absolutely the most toxic no exactly yeah and i was like no they've got to go they don't make me feel good i'm never gonna i don't want to be that size so what am i waiting for and actually there's someone that there'll be someone out there that is that size naturally and it looks perfect for them and the dress that I spent 100 quid on they're now going to spend 50 quid on fantastic and they're going to love that and they're going to wear it to death I am not that you are Sven-Ridish no I was literally about to say to you like red or green I was like I don't know how that works what am I uh oh actually this is quite a good update so I spoke on the podcast a few weeks ago about how I really wanted to get a dog and I was wanting to invest in getting a puppy and thank you so much to everyone that sent really long messages about like should I shouldn't I like I got voice notes I got photos of the best breed to get it was just like so cute I was loving it when I think I spoke about this on on Monday's episode in the weekend I was with my boyfriend's family and and basically his mum had gone on a campaign to basically turn us off the idea of getting a dog and it was so funny because I found myself in all these conversations they They were like, God, our dog's annoying.

4:48Oh, it's a really bad idea to get dogs if you're planning on having kids. It was so funny. So, okay. And my boyfriend and I were like, are you getting some serious don't get dog vibes? And we were both like, yeah. So basically, on his birthday, I wrote a card and I said, I can't afford a whole dog, but this is, I've put money aside for half a dog for your birthday. So I'd say 500 pounds and that was my plan. I was like, here's your birthday present. That's nice. Thanks. Half a dog. Couldn't afford the whole thing. But, you know. What dogs are you buying? They're so expensive. I can't even – don't get me started on that, and I don't want to bore the audience with the exact same conversation, but they are outrageous.

5:24And this is even like me trying to get a rescue dog anyway. So I'm kind of in the green because I don't need to give that birthday present anymore because apparently we're not getting a dog. Everyone's put us off the idea of it. What's he going to spend his five hundred on? Well, I was thinking, do I get that money back? No. I don't think you can rescind a birthday present. But I also got him a tattoo. So I feel like that's – so I sort of did get him a present. Yeah. So maybe that goes back into the like, what should we do with this money as a collective? Together, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm in the green.

5:53That's what I'm clinging to. Love that. Yeah, yeah.

6:00So everyone knows the Cartier Love Bracelet. This is something that I have talked about at length of wanting. Do you know the one I mean? Yeah, I have. So I have the Cartier Love ring. You do, don't you? Yes. So I bought it for myself for my 30th because I have seen and grown up looking at all these women with their Cartier Love bands. So it's like the band version. But it's always been way out of reach in budget. And I just couldn't justify it. But the ring was like significantly less. And it was a beautiful experience. I will tell you that when I bought the ring. So here's the thing. I have said for ages I would love to buy this bracelet.

6:36It feels to me like an investment in something that I would love to wear. that I really like. And also I thought, I think low key, this is a good investment. The reason that this has come up. So firstly, everyone on socials wears this bracelet. It's become cultural currency. It's turned into this thing where it's almost, I would say, a slight baby sister, poor cousin to the Birkin. If you're like, what? Birkins are an investment. So the bag has returned 92 % in the pre-owned market over the last 10 years. So the actual Birkin is now essentially thought of as an investment. It's now technically worth something and it holds its value if not appreciating over time.

7:20There was a story that came out this week that was basically saying, is Cartier the new Birkin? And it got me down a hole of thinking first off, I was like, oh, This is very exciting because I've always wanted to buy one and now it's kind of being validated that this is an investment. So in the US, Cartier raised their prices on average by almost 7 % in late 2025. So someone that bought this love bracelet in 2022, let's say just over$6 ,000, who now owns it, it's close to$8 ,000 now. so that's essentially in a three-year period it's gone up by around 26 but to buy it new it's not necessary to say the one you're wearing would also be worth that i that's right but i think a lot of people sometimes it's the same with the but with the hermese bags like the birkins the mini calis etc they have gone up in value but you have to keep them as collector's items isabel lorner who's this like creator in the uk that i am obsessed with she calls herself have a luxe fluencer and she has loads of birkins the entire video right that she literally put up maybe yesterday i do stalk this woman a lot she was literally just peeling the plastic off of the hardware on her birkin and saying how like it's gonna lose like six grand in value or something just by pulling the plastic off the hardware yes if you keep them as like collector's items or like artwork and you keep them in the boxes and you keep the plastic on the hardware and all of that stuff then maybe but i don't know i don't know like if this is how we're going to convince ourselves we need to own something who am i to stop people no i think because then the other thing is i saw this video pop up and it was this other uk influencer emily someone and she a wilcox yes did you see this video yes things absolutely not worth investing in personalized number plates why would you voluntarily make it easier for strangers to identify you birkin bags it looks like someone forgot to finish opening it designer t-shirts specifically the designer t-shirts with the big title text and then the small subtitle underneath it.

9:17It's giving designed on Canva. In fact, anything designer with someone else's name on it. Leasehold Flats. The Cartier Love Bracelet. Nothing says individuality quite like wearing the exact same£4 ,000 bracelet everyone else has. And Ramoah suitcases. Why? I was mortified. She dug out Ramoah suitcases. I was devastated. I was like, okay, mine's my entire personality. Okay, maybe it's not. But basically, I wanted one for years. Those are the silver suitcases that are really expensive. Yes. You are spending a thousand pounds on a suitcase, yes. But I was like, do you know what it came down to? And I'll be really honest with you guys and the audience, is that I always wanted one for years and years and years.

9:57And someone used to say to me that, they were like, that's ridiculous. You can't have it. So then when my life changed, I was like, right, I'm having the suitcase. And no one can stop me. and no one does stop you. But that's how I feel about the heart bracelet. But then she was saying in this video, these are all, why would you ever spend your money on this? And it was calling out all these really, sorry to say it, but kind of basic purchases. I know. Like the love bracelet, like the Birkin, like that suitcase. Yeah. And all of a sudden they thought, shit, maybe I don't want to invest in the same thing that every single person has.

10:29And this is exactly why the price has been driven up and why it's become such an investment is because it is this idea of what wealth means. And most people who actually have money and who are actually wealthy are not buying stuff like this because they don't need to show off that they have wealth. But it's so hard for me to say because I was at a dinner two nights ago and a lot of my friends have those bracelets. And I look at them and for ages I've thought I want one and now I'm really changing my mind. But I don't know. I think just the idea as well of these products and just zooming out a little bit and looking at how aspirational they are and therefore why these brands are able to increase their prices.

11:02because the key thing here when it comes to a Birkin or it comes to a Cartier Love Bracelet is the retail price is being constantly bumped up year on year. And that's why it's increasing in value because it's more expensive year on year to buy the exact same thing. It's not just inflation. It's not just going up a little bit. It's like serious price increases. So it is a different mindset around spending on luxury. You're buying something that technically is more of an investment. Yeah. But yeah, you're right. You can't be like banging it on the side of your tube and like getting a dent in it and expecting it to still hold its value.

11:38And also how many people are buying those bracelets secondhand? Is there a huge secondhand market? I'm sure there is a secondhand market for everything. Obviously, there's a secondhand market for Birkins. But for me, it's currently it's a no. I'd be looking at that thinking that's a huge amount of a deposit for my next home. That's a huge amount of money, you know. And I saw something someone said the other day, like some of them, like the wealthiest people, the ones that spend their money on experiences. And actually I was like, oh, yeah, do I want to see the world? Well, it's really interesting you bring that up because when I was looking at this, you know, LVMH, for example, Louis Vuitton, Maui Hennessy, like they are down quite a lot still.

12:20And luxury cruises have gone up by 12 percent. Private jets and yachts are up 11 percent. Fine dining is up 7 percent. So people are just shifting where they think about spending their money in terms of what feels luxurious. There's been a lot of talk globally around a wealth tax. You know, we have a huge inequality problem in the UK, but also across the world, where the financial divide between the wealthiest and the poorest is wild and just getting bigger and bigger. And I think that there's been these debates around a wealth tax. So like, there's this guy called Gary Stevenson who does a lot on wealth taxes in the UK, Gary's economics.

12:54and he talks about how there should be like a flat percentage charge on all assets over 10 million, let's say. And so therefore, maybe that's why luxury minded people, those with like high net worth are looking at like investing in experiences rather than assets, because they know eventually those assets are going to get taxed, maybe. I think it's something to keep an eye on. Because if you look at countries like India, there's been such accelerated expansions into brands like Louboutin, Dior, Cartier. And I think it's maybe just like a distribution of wealth as money moves around. The luxury industry is, it's always been quite safe, but maybe not always.

13:32Yeah. And I don't know, I wonder if this whole like move away from being materialistic has anything to do with the fact that people are starting to reject the idea of what traditionally people thought of as wealth and successful. It's really changed like success. Most people feel is actually more about the state that you can live in like do you feel rich in life and I think it's almost become kind of tacky and sad when you see people that are just like spending on all the stuff that everyone now just knows just doesn't bring you happiness there's like this sort of shift in perspective of what is cool and what is aspirational and maybe that's why now for me if I think about this Cartier love bracer I'm like ah I know maybe that's not what I want to buy into in terms of what I think 60s looks like yeah it's almost like for me it used to be that I could walk into the Cartier store and afford it and like have the glass of champagne and like have the experience is it the bracelet though that I'm bothered about or is it just being just knowing that I have enough money to do that I do love I love that ring though yeah I know I'm so sitting here being like yeah I've changed my mind I'm like I was like here you go I'd be like I've got a new bracelet everyone and I love it but it is a bit like look at my symbol I've got money you know it's like do I need it coming up after the break there has been another massive scandal when it comes to people trying to buy their degrees spending over 50 ,000 US on trying to get university entrance what does this mean why is this increasing the great wealth divide it's quite problematic but before we dive in here is a quick word from today's sponsor so many people have no idea where their KiwiSaver account is invested.

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15:54So in India, there is an exam which is a really, really big deal for a huge amount of budding medical professionals. So kids and families spend so much time, money, often go into debt to prepare themselves to basically pass this exam to be able to go into medicine. And there's been one scandal before, which we can quickly touch on. It happened in 2024. Basically, there was 13 people that were arrested, including four of the examinees, who basically had paid around$50 ,000 USD to get the paper before the exam. So essentially what happened is the whole test was kind of like cancelled and it's happened again this year and it's just it's come up in the news all over the world.

16:46It was spoken about in the FT where the same thing has happened. So just to give context for what a big deal this is, over 2 million people are trying to pass this exam. There's a lot of people that have spent and built kind of their whole life in terms of trying to build their way out of poverty by going and studying medicine. So in May this year, the same thing happened where people were trying to buy the results to try and buy their way into medicine. And it's wealthy people in India being able to buy their way out of a situation, people that have no money desperately trying to get themselves into a better financial position to educate themselves.

17:25The test has been cancelled again. And there's just a huge amount of controversy that's been sparked off the back of this. Yeah. So Modi, so their president has promised to fast track all of this and like obviously try and stop the effect of almost riots going on behind all of this. They like protesters have called for the education minister to step down, which I don't know, maybe that's what happens when you get to the top is like things like this do happen. Someone needs to be answerable and that's why they get paid so well to do this. But yeah, he hasn't. And Modi has said like he won't. We're going to leave everything as it is.

17:59the great wealth divide is getting worse and worse wealth inequality is getting worse and it is becoming really dangerous i think because would you want how much trust would you have in the system if you could think if you thought that someone could buy their way in like i don't really want a doctor that's bought their way in i want a doctor that you're sorry i didn't even think about the fact it's doctors as well yeah they're going to eventually become medical professionals and i wouldn't want a medical professional that's been able to buy their way in. I want them to know their stuff. And yeah, I think that is probably the biggest worry that I have.

18:33And obviously, India, there's already huge inequalities. And I think this is just going to make it even worse. Abby, you speak a lot about investing in emerging markets. India is one of those emerging markets. And I think it's really worth also just painting the picture here. Like, when you've grown up in a world where the US is, you know, the economic shrine, and then, you have other economies like China that are really strong. It's really hard to imagine a world where the scales will completely shifted, but that is the reality of the economy. It ebbs and flows. There's some people that have a lot of money and some people that don't.

19:06But the economic goal for India is to become a$30 trillion economy within two decades. The vision for them really is to focus on the youth, poor women, farmers. They have this kind of like approach where they're trying to become a stronger economy but then you see people are trying to buy their way into education and just how deep that corruption goes i don't know if you have any thoughts on just that wealth trap and and if it's actually possible for them to go from being an emerging market to actually being like leaders in the economy if this stuff's still happening the one of the wildest things is that china is still considered an emerging market which I think is bizarre um it's such a powerhouse now but um yeah these are emerging markets and I think things that they need to do is what they've said in their pillars like looking at women for instance like the gender pay gap and the gender inequality gap could bring in so much money to the GDP like I'm sure a lot of people have read Invisible Women and they understood how you know women can multiply the but like the money that they bring into the economy gets multiplied so much more quickly and i can't remember the stat but like such a high percentage of finance now is in the hands of women because of like they handle like the family finances and things like that and i think i personally think when it comes to india that like their keys to success is in the women that they have like at their fingertips like some of the um obviously unemployment rates that we can mention here obviously talk about how among graduates gen z males is around 29 unemployment rate for women that goes up to 37%.

20:39And that's actually really detrimental to their economy. So if they fix that and like get those young women and get women in general, producing income into the GDP into the economy of India, it could really skyrocket over a period of time, but they just need to provide like decent education and support their women and young women into careers. One of the things that the story made me think about is just the idea of education as an investment. Yes. And whether or not that is an investment, because we all know that going to university now doesn't necessarily equal money or career or paying off your loan.

21:13It's like that guaranteed path is no longer there. That is everything. Like it is just capitalism. We are buying our futures. And because everyone now does it, like the level has gone up again. Like 10 years ago, no, sorry, let's say 20 years ago, going to university was a luxury that not many could have afforded, even though it was cheaper back then. not everyone was going because it didn't make complete sense for everyone whereas now like 10 years ago when I went sorry 12 that's sad anyway 12 years ago when I went everyone went and so this like the supply of us went up and then the fees also went up and then we look now and we think what did we need to go like why did we go I personally think like if I was chancellor or I was head of the department for education I do believe that education should just be a right that every young person gets and decent education as well but that isn't the nice society that we currently live in and i do think that again it will create this like sort of pop where people go actually is university worth it anymore and then suddenly that system will start to collapse and they'll have to reinvent what that looks like but yeah right now we see it in the uk like the private schools are the ones you pay for in the uk states the one the government gives and private schools are like mini membership clubs now because they become so expensive that only the elite can afford to send their kids there and is that fair I'm not sure like it honestly like I work with when I go and teach in schools we work with private schools and state schools and I see positives in both and I just think it's a very like honestly it's like the most impossible discussion but personally if I was chancellor I would be rewriting the curriculum I'd be rewriting what education looks like and I'd be supporting people to do it I think other European countries have better ideas with this and they let their young people like have a bit longer decide on their careers.

23:00I think we have to decide too early. Well, even for me, when I went to school 100 million years ago, it was still really expensive. But, you know, if you were a lawyer or you were a doctor as a parent, not that either of mine were, but it was, you know, somewhat in reach for, for sure, very privileged people. But now a lot of those schools are filled with international students. I know it's the same over here. It is very much that kind of like top 1%. People who have parents of really successful careers and are financially stable can't afford this type of education anymore. And I know for a fact I wouldn't be where I am if I hadn't had that education or gone to university.

23:42There's just no way. the things that I learned that I had to pay for and that my parents had to pay for for school and then me uni have given me the career and the opportunities that I have but when I then look at these stories and and the people in India whose entire families have leveraged themselves and got loans to be able to help their kids study to even just pass to get in and then they don't it's so heartbreaking because why should I have that access and so many other people don't I think that it's a definitely a broken system if we want to see more innovation and we want to see smarter brains doing better for the world, that needs, that whole system needs to be figured out.

24:23Over the last decade, the increase of disputes when it comes to wills, inheritance has gone up by nearly 130%. The reason that so many people are disputing, going to court, having giant family fallout because of money and because of inheritance is due to many different factors. But I think that this is a conversation that we need to get into. So we spoke a few weeks ago about the great wealth transfer. So we all know now that$18 trillion is being transferred between generations by 2030. So there is a lot of money being passed through the generations. But what is surging and what this headline, the reason that it stuck out to me is that we're already seeing a huge surge in the amount of people who are falling out and like having to go to court over money that they're inheriting.

25:16But it's being driven by a couple of different factors. And I think let's discuss the factors, what's driving it. And then let's talk practically about what does this actually mean if you could potentially be in a position where you are inheriting or you might be passing money on and how can you protect yourself, your relationships and your family from not being one of these statistics because I mean for most of us the idea of having to go to court against a sibling or a stepsister or I mean it's it's really heartbreaking but there are some really key drivers that are spoken about in this research that I think we should explain in more detail.

25:52Yeah it's such a it's such a heartbreaking situation wills inheritance etc like as an accountant like we do exam after exam understanding this and actually we forget to realize that there are people behind it and like what it all means and i know there's some really ridiculous systems in place here in the uk where when like when someone passes on you actually only have like nine months before you need to submit the like tax return effectively form around inheritance and i think that can be really stressful for families and one of the main things that came up was um dementia cases rising dementia cases have risen from 55 million globally in 2020 to are projected 78 million by 2030 so that's a 41 percent increase so that is going to show the amount of those like all of those people that could be vulnerable to changes in their will you've got second marriages stepchildren competing loyalties like there's so many blended families now in our society where we're not we don't have to stay married to one person forever if it doesn't work for us and all that but that leads to blended families and step families and therefore wills get really messy and complicated because in the past if you had let's say you didn't have a will and you got married your setup is now that when you pass all of your money goes to your spouse but actually you may now have an ex-husband and you you have a new step kids yeah and new step kids and like who actually benefits and legally why and how much do they get so and as an example so my parents have remarried, if they didn't have a will in place or, you know, an inheritance plan, let's say, God forbid, we hope this never, ever, ever, ever happens, touch wood.

27:33But if my dad was to pass away and he didn't have something in place or everything that he had earned or created in his life could be passed to his wife and then the stepkids, but actually maybe what he wanted was for that to be split evenly or to go to his kids. So it's things like that where there's so many more second marriages happening. So there's so many more complexities when it comes to families merging when they already have assets. And that's where it turns into a total disaster. Yeah, like the practical though, like if we dive into that, because I think that's what people really need to understand.

28:07And like, you know, one of the human parts of this, and I've said this to my own parents, is spend your money whilst you're alive. There are allowances when it comes to inheritance tax across the globe. And you want to try and obviously to completely avoid paying any tax or whatever. You want to make sure that you keep your assets under a certain number and keep financial planning in your mind. But in terms of protecting against the cases we were talking about, like blended families, is having a will and reviewing it as often as you see fit. So every time something in your life changes or you have an increase in money or a change in relationship, you want to make sure that you're reviewing your will.

28:45and that goes to the right person. Also, when it comes to pensions, I'm not quite sure how it works in New Zealand and Australia, but in the UK, you have to appoint like an expression of wishes form, which basically tells the pension provider where you want your pension to go because it sits outside of your pension. And one of the biggest problems we have here in the UK is that people will write their expression of wishes form early on in their career. Usually they'll put down maybe their parents or their partner at the time. They forget. And there was a huge case study, a huge accountancy case study done a few years ago where this guy had put down his first wife and they divorced and then he'd remarried but because the expression of wishes form had his first wife's name on all of his pension went to her oh my god yeah okay so this is an example i was i was looking over the last decade the amount of claims that have gone to court has risen by almost 130 so that's people that have done something like that or they've had someone in their family that's had dementia and done something with their will.

29:44And then, you know, for whatever reason, whoever's left behind is left sort of trying to tidy up the pieces. Can you imagine grieving, having to then go through that? You just, in my head, you would assume if you were that first wife that you just explained, that you would just transfer that to the new family. But not everyone works like that. No. And also if you're in a position where like you haven't had money or you are strapped for cash yourself and legally this is what saying is owed to you everyone says they do the right thing until they're in that position and then they go oh maybe I wouldn't and maybe actually it is mine and I'll fight for it and you feel the one that's got the money it's so hard it is such a messy situation and I think house prices as well rising I know this sounds really left field but bear with me so house prices rising are causing a lot of problems for families as well because basically they these parents bought houses for like I don't know two pounds or whatever or two dollars uh back in the day and they're now worth a lot of money and there are family disputes ongoing where kids of the family that now inherit that house are being hit with huge tax bills because the value of the house is so much larger than when the parents were given it and their parents don't have like the cash to pay it off so then these kids are having to sell the houses really quickly to get to release the cash but they can't because they can't release the probate there's like a whole whole situation where sometimes these wills or these inheritance are a bit of a financial burden at the front before they actually become anything positive because people can't sell the assets because they don't have the money to pay the tax first as a whole it gets really messy and i think i would just say to anyone please speak about your assets and your wills whilst you can and i'm review it as often as you can speak to people around you how you want your assets to be given out is really important and your wishes have you spoken to your parents about it like what have you said to them and how do you many times what questions do you think like my parents keep saying like oh we just like how can we reduce your inheritance tax liberty and i'm like spend your money i don't want any of your money go and live your best lives like sell up spend it all go to cartier buy five love bracelets do you know what i mean like have like Put them wherever you want.

31:53I don't mind. But just spend your money. I think the older generation sometimes can get in their heads about not feeling like they've succeeded unless they've passed on this great wealth. And it's like, no, no. Spend it into the economy. Help boost the economy that you've just messed up over the last few years. Not putting that on my parents' doors. They didn't do that. But just funnel money back. I don't want anything. That's why I always say to my parents, I don't want to have to do an inherited size bill. Go live your life. But what about people who don't feel like that? What if someone's like, yeah, cool.

32:24It's really easy to say that when you earn good money or you have your own or you're feeling financially secure. And I'm, by the way, there's no judgment here. But my point is like if someone hasn't even had that conversation with their parents, they don't know even if they have anything to leave behind. Yeah. Or what is planned. Like how it's a really delicate subject. It's a really delicate conversation. If you are going to have it, be really light about it. Try and do it in an environment that's very safe. So like don't bring up their wills and their inheritance like at a restaurant in front of lots of busy people.

32:54Maybe don't bring it up in the heat of an argument. Maybe do it like when you're like having a cup of tea with your parents in a very safe, calm environment and just saying like, can I ask a question? And they'll be like, yes. And then you say, do you have a will? And I think it's usually people's body language is quite good at that point. If they go like, yep, we've got it. Don't ask us about it. Or like, yep, it's in the loft. Don't worry about it. That's usually their sign to say that we don't want to broach this any further. and maybe it means you're going to have to take a little bit longer to get this information out of them or you can say to them like who's your power of attorney like if something happens just so i know kind of thing or if they say to you oh we do or we don't you can then say to them it's actually really important you do it because things can get really messy and you just don't want that and actually if they love you which your family do like they won't want that to be messy for you so hopefully they'll understand and then you can have a bit of foresight because again there's nothing worse if something happens so suddenly not understanding at all what happens to the finances could be really dangerous also just like front-footing the whole like i'm not interested in having a fight with anyone so no if you could just really do me a solid and just like deal with that so it's not something that's passed on to us that would be really great i mean imagine if you found out that your grandma had dementia and changed their will and gave everything to one grandchild instead of you know it's so much responsibility then put on the people that are in an uncomfortable situation, whether you're the ex-wife that's received the inheritance, whether you're the, you know, it's probably just as hard for someone that's either left out of a will or, you know, kind of, I guess, been hard done by whatever, as it is for someone that's inheriting something that's like unequal or awkward or, you know, it's quite interesting because in New Zealand, I don't know why, if it's because we're such a new country, there is no inheritance tax.

34:39So it's quite different. I mean, I'm sure there's other ways where it like comes out, but basically it's, If someone dies in New Zealand, yeah, and I think it's the same in Australia. It's really different the way that it works. You're jerking. No. I'm moving to New Zealand. That's incredible. No wonder then people want to pass on their wealth. Well, this is kind of what I was going to say because when you were sort of saying like, oh, you know, spend your money, spend your money, I think there are some people who are like, maybe it's a New Zealand and Australian mentality. But I think a lot of people in New Zealand particularly are really focused on that idea of like helping to keep money within the family and pass it on because it's not taxed by the government in the same way it is here.

35:15I think the reason I said it, I genuinely, I do come from a place of love where I say to my parents, I just want them to not feel like they're a number that's being like stared at. Like I don't want them to think that like I'm waiting for them to die before I get money. I think that's really sad. I've heard and like I also want them to feel confident that like they helped me so much in my life that like I don't I'm not relying on them. I don't rely on anyone passing any money to me. Like I've heard of someone recently where their grandma unfortunately was like persuaded by someone in the family to like remove anyone in the family that had gone to university because they were considered like the elite in the family and they didn't need his money.

35:54Yeah, cause a lot of drama. That's outrageous. I just honestly cannot even imagine someone being that twisted to go and say, you know, remove Sally, John and Sarah out of that world because they've gone to uni and they don't need anything. I mean, wow, that's so weird. Yeah. People are weird and twisted. I do actually think, though, now that I know how to make money and invest money, I think as much as I'd feel a bit shafted if I was the only grandchild and everyone else was like, you know, I don't know. given a thousand pounds for my grandma or whatever it was. I don't think it would be necessary.

36:32I think it would be more emotionally I would feel sad rather than needing the money. I think I have now the confidence in knowing I'm not relying on anything coming in, but it's more, it would just be quite sad to me. I don't know. And not that like getting money equals love, but yeah, it would just feel a bit weird. Yeah, 100%. Now, before we wrap up today, if you're listening to this the moment it drops, which I hope you are um we basically on Saturdays in a few days time are releasing a episode about what we have been banging on about for far too long and why we have the lovely Abby Foster filling in for Vic so we are finally able to let the cat out of the bag so if you're listening to this and you want to know what we've been talking about or what's been going on behind the scenes at The Curve we would love for you to follow the podcast you can go wherever you're listening and hit follow, subscribe, and you'll be notified as soon as that comes out.

37:27Thank you so much again, Abby. Thank you so much for having me. Love having you on. It's so fun. And have a great week and we'll see you on Monday. Thank you so much for listening to The Curve Weekly. Make sure you hit subscribe or follow wherever you're listening so you're always up to date with the latest finance and investing news. And feel free to leave a comment to let us know what you thought about this episode because we would love your feedback. We've got new Curve Weekly episodes for you to listen to every Monday. But until then, listen to Erasing the Curve. These are our in-depth podcast episodes where we chat about all things money.

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