60. Boardwave Live 2025 Review

0:00Welcome to The Difference Engine, the show for tech founders, investors and innovators.

0:11so paul october is board wave month on the difference engine what do we got coming up we have got a ton so we were both at board wave live uh this is the meeting of some of the best minds in software in europe and there's just a smorgasbord a feast of content yeah and what we're going to do is start with something we recorded at the event uh a review of the talks we attended in the morning.

0:39All right, so we're back for our second year at the amazing BoardWare Live event. There really isn't anything like this that I know of. What I love about this event is its sheer ambition. I mean, today's session is called The Acceleration of Everything. Now, you know, that sounds a bit hyperbolic. Sounds a bit American. But if you think about it, it's absolutely true. So software is now accelerating everything. It doesn't matter what sphere of the economy in, you're being accelerated. And the arrival of AI is putting the boosters on that. And the man behind the vision here, Phil Robinson, really deserves a bit of a hat tip.

1:15This organization is now 2 ,400 CEOs and real top dogs of the business of technology in Europe. Yeah, and it really is an organization where everybody is dedicated to helping everybody else. I mean, if you want to go away from spending a day and go away feeling inspired, if you're in tech, this is definitely the place to be. Yeah, I wouldn't quite say he goes out the door. However, I love the ambition here, which is to make European software the envy of the world. And secondly, the claim that we'll do as well as the US did during the Internet age, during the AI age. Love that. Yeah, there's a couple of things Phil said at the beginning, which I just find very memorable.

1:58The first thing was that we beat ourselves up in Europe in terms of the success of our businesses. But he was talking about ASML, which for those of you who don't know them, they're the Dutch company that makes the machines that make the chips. And Phil remarked that in the time, essentially, it took him to write and then deliver his opening speech, the capitalization of ASML had gone up$4 billion to$318 billion. So, you know, we really should be giving ASML a round of applause. Another thing which came up, which is really interesting, was that in the recent year or the year since we were last here, there's been a really profound change in what customers are expecting from software.

2:44And they are now expecting AI to be at the center of the product, not an add-on at the center. As they should. And he also went through a bunch of examples. Paul, as you mentioned, some of the usual suspects, such as Mistral, also Helsing, who are going to be on a panel here this afternoon, Cusp AI and others. And then we had our first session with Vishal from Quantexa. I've had the pleasure of working with that gentleman. Great story. You're working as parents' cash and carry over the weekend. So, you know, classic example of first-generation success. Yeah. jobs at EY and then setting up Quantexa to lead in its specific category of decision intelligence.

3:26I think there's two things he brought up when asked about what has made him successful. And like so many people, his success is rooted in his childhood experience. And culture to him was extremely important because working when he wasn't at school and his parents, Cush and Carrie in Brixton, his family, co-workers would come in and they were held together by a very strong bond to make that business successful. And the other thing he talked about was profit and investment. Now, you need to make profits to invest, and you have to think very carefully about how you can increase their profits. In the case of the cash and carry, it was to own brand a whole load of the products they were selling, and there was a much bigger margin on that.

4:10Indeed. Then we had a very interesting panel with folks from Ocado and the NHS and Vodafone, all talking about their use of AI in practical terms. And what particularly struck me about that was the NHS numbers about something that they call the spine, which I have to know because the prescriptions that my kids get come from the spine, didn't know what it was till today. 440 ,000 various bits of IT kit is what it takes to make sure that the pills arrive at the right pharmacist at the right time. And that's only one of the systems. I mean, the thing that came across is how complex the NHS is and how complex the systems are and how complex it is to roll systems out.

4:48Yeah, a story that doesn't get told often enough is how well the NHS digital side of things is doing. It was very heartening to hear that. We then had another panel with a bunch of, it was an all-female panel with our friend Amber Vodegall, who's also been on the pod previously, very admirable set of principles about giving back, but with real teeth about how you get investors to invest for the right reasons and not just endless greed. thought that was pretty amazing. I don't know what your thoughts were on that one. Totally, and Amber's really holding a torch for that type of ethical investment.

5:24There's also some really nice self-reflecting points where people, CEOs who are massively successful, were asked about maybe what could they have done better. I'm thinking of Laura Hill, of course, from GoHenry. I was. A little anecdote which you're going to share, I'm sure. Yeah, well, it was just, you know, they'd built the business. They were going gangbusters. They had hired 100 people in nine months. And she came to the realisation that she was just working every minute of every hour of every day and not really getting further. And she talked this through some people, and they realised that actually she was the bottleneck on so many things.

6:01I think she referred to herself as the single point of failure. Yes, and that's what they talk about in their company, which is, do we have any other single points of failure? And her life massively improved when they got together and realized where these points of failure were and got her out of those single points of failure so she could focus on leaving the company. Now, next in line, we won't go into because it will spoil our interview with Ben Richmond. Yeah. All I can say is he was pretty amazing on stage. And we got a little bit further into some of the anecdotes he told. So I think this one's going to be one that you really, really enjoy listening to.

6:35Yeah, so if you want to hear the story of a boy from Camborne in Cornwall ending up with software that's in virtually every jurisdiction in the world, tune in to that.

6:51Can you explain to everybody else who you are and why you're here? Yeah, sure. Alistair McGill, I'm CEO of MoneyHub, a UK-based fintech. And here really to network, actually, and take some time away from the desk and just learn a bit more about what's happening in the industry. You've been in a few of the sessions. I always find I learn something. Is there anything that you could share that you've learned this morning? Yeah, I mean, I thought a couple of really interesting sessions. The one around real life lessons for founders and CEOs where things go wrong. It was really interesting. Might help somebody else avoid the bear traps that you fall into.

7:26So that was good. And then the other one would be a session on AI from the customer's perspective. I mean, we're a machine learning company investing in AI, both Gen AI and Agentec AI. So, interesting to hear it from other industries and the client perspective. I'm Tim Barker, formerly CEO of COOF, which is on the London Stock Exchange, the UK's largest digital and mental health service. I've known you a while. You're always learning. What have you taken from today's sessions? What have you learned from today? Like a lot of executives, I'm trying to get a barometer on where everyone else is from the world of AI.

8:05Everyone says they're doing it, but what reality is there behind it? And I think the sort of general theme that I'm sort of bringing away from today is you've got to start with the economics that it has to the organization. We've all been in technology hype cycles. It's very easy to get pumped up about the tech, starting with economics to the buyer as part of that, how it impacts the balance sheet is a key question. And you think that's what this show brings or this gathering brings? I think it just helps give you a clarity. One of the great things about BoardWave is it's a non-profit. There's no pay-to-play.

8:35There's no vendor interruptions on that. It's a like-minded group of peers. And honestly, I've got enough value today that I could leave and felt it was well worth it. Just some of the conversations over lunch.

8:50So my name's Andrew Yates. I'm a serial entrepreneur, currently founder and resident at a company called Encino. Encino acquired the last software company I built last October. What are you taking away from BoardWave Live 2025? So, I mean, just super congratulations to KD and the team and Phil for once again knocking it out of the park. There's nothing quite like BoardWave and this annual gathering where we get all of the best bits together. It really is, right? I mean, super thought-provoking, inspiring, meeting fellow entrepreneurs, listening to the keynotes on the stage, and then reconnecting with the peer group, which is BoardWave.

9:36There's just nothing like it, and I'm so grateful. Phil and the team were super helpful this time last year when I was in a I was in negotiations with our with our acquirer and honestly it made such a difference so as you've just heard we spent our lunchtime going around bothering people and asking what they thought of the event but straight after that we were back into the rooms listening to what the best people in software in Europe have to say about the current environment

10:11Wow so BoardWave Live 2025 that was quite something wasn't it absolutely the biggest one yet the sense was that we're we're not paying playing catch-up anymore you know we're setting the pace in some areas absolutely and amongst this crowd at least the dynamism is off the hook uh Klarna's just got uh gone out with his IPO uh Bending Spoons has bought Vimeo and then there's a asml everybody keeps underestimating them but they are the ultimate picks and shovels player and something that we should all be proud of um basically they're holding the keys to the entire ai kingdom yeah indeed they are and they are a juggernaut um and then and it was interesting that a former guest on this show hussein kasai of onfido and quench ai episode 43 i think it might episode 43 could it be well you know listeners hussein uh as ever very very sage made a great point with AI itself lowering the cost of building companies the US's capital advantage is no longer the trump card that it was he thinks that uh Europe's talent bank should be now ready to take advantage yeah and um this is a theme that's come out in a number of events i was recently at the sifted event we've got the talent here right we've got the academic background and we've got the ideas what we struggle with is scale and that's sort of what board wave live is all about board waves co-founder phil robinson nailed it um it's not just time for us to compete it's time for us to actually excel and that's something he's been doing throughout his career in tech to be fair indeed for those who've known us known him for a few decades that's absolutely true but the nice thing about board wave is that it is educational for people who are incredibly busy if you're going to spend a day out of your your schedule you know building some of the best firms in Europe, you want to go away with stuff that you can actually use.

12:04So there was a member survey that BoardWave had done before the conference, and it basically found that the average European founder aims for around 40 million in revenue in a 10-year growth period. Now, you know, you might think that sounds pretty chunky. The problem is that over 10 years, US founders are looking for about 100 million in ARR. Now, that gap has to close if we're serious about becoming any form of global powerhouse to use the current lingo. It is time to excel, of course, but it's equally time to think big about capturing and dominating categories, whether you're a founder, and particularly if you're a funder.

12:55Yeah, that magic 100 million ARR number is bandied about a lot in the States. We just think it's a big and unachievable number. But you can't really get funded, then the US is not really interested in you unless you're at that number. So Phil is calling, you know, he announced at BoardWave Live that it's Europe's moonshot moment. And that feels about right. It's not just rhetoric, the speakers are all convinced that this is happening across sectors. in the AI healthcare session, Vivian Chan nailed it. She said, the hurdles are huge, but the breakthroughs are happening. Strong bit of Aussie positivity there, I thought.

13:33Indeed, indeed. Vivian was brilliant. A point that deep tech often comes before the market exists really resonated. You could see people's brains whirring in the room. It's that kind of vision that does create entirely new industries. Yeah, and, you know, Drone Man, Carl Eze, is one of the two experienced leaders on the panels, on the defense panel. And he was along with former Major General Rupert Jones, who's a special guest on the show, of course. And they both brought people down to earth with a bang. Let's not lose the commercial focus here, even in times like this. And especially in defense and healthcare, it's easy to get swept up in the mission and forget you also have to build a business.

14:19Yeah, talking about a man that knows how to build and conduct a mission to success, that is Major General Rupert Jones. And he will be subject of a special edition of the Difference Engine on the 22nd of October. So if you want to listen to a really, really, really interesting conversation, 22nd of October, put it in your diary. One of the things I really loved, I mean, it's been visited before. but what I love about the BoardWave Sessions is the absolute excruciating honesty that people feel like they can exhibit amongst their peers there. And it was the theme around embracing failure. Now, there's a stat that came out from MIT, for instance, that 95 % of AI pilots fail.

15:12Yeah, this is doing the rounds everywhere. Yeah, I know. But you'd think, well, that could scare people. But what I loved was Carlo Mochi, who's the chief business officer at Deliveroo. He just looked at the audience, shrugged and said, of course they do. It's just how you learn. Yeah. And James Matthews, who's the CEO of Ocado, a brand that most people think of as online supermarketing, but it's just a testbed really for real business automation and the benefits of there. His line was, let a thousand flowers bloom. and it's that experimentation mindset perhaps that we need to foster yeah yeah again everybody was going look you know admit your mistakes but let's have a little less of the self-doubt there was a lot of conversation um you know as our society is changing around the human side of trying to scale um and i really would say that that cultural thing you know it was stitched into every conversation.

16:11It was pretty huge. And I think where it sort of got to its zenith was a session with Jean-Philippe Courtois. For those of you who don't know Jean-Philippe, he was head of Microsoft in Europe for quite some time. And he had a little framework which he used. You know, there's three things in it, of course, model, care, and coach. And I think, you know, speaking to people around there, they considered it, it was like a masterclass in leadership. You know, how you boil it down how do you do it well um there was a great session on going through the messy middle of any journey of building a company um you know when all the processes that served you really really well when you're small start to fall apart uh when you get a bit a bit bigger it was awesome uh and also somewhere that perhaps um most of us haven't been is uh where dwayne jackson the slammer i think he's served some time his majesty's pleasure he did he's from cash flow obviously and staffology and he talked about being the c everything o um it some people would call that dog's body some people would say just do the do get it done it's a rite of passage for most founders but the smart ones realize that they can't scale if they don't let go and they stop being the c everything o and an adage that i know you said a bunch of times about this it's an oldie but a goldie which is higher slow fire fast or you'll be quickly taking back all of that control and that's a move backwards.

17:36Yeah, and while we're talking about founders trying to retain their sanity, there was a workshop with a guy called Dr. Jack Crangler. He sounds like a Bond villain. The highlight for me was he made this lovely distinction between resilience and endurance. And I think people need to understand what that difference is. but the point was you can't build billion euro companies on burnout right and that actually um there was a whole session on that again at the sifted event burnout is is one end of the scale but you know bring it back to basics sleep nutrition mental health you cannot outperform if your body and mind broken that's sort of obvious um but you might not get it said so obviously if you've got your aura watch or your your apple your apple watch or your aura ring they may not just say it like it is, something probably I wish I'd figured out a bit earlier in my business life.

18:34Yeah, and so much of this, it's all ties back to culture, not perks, not slogans, but building environments where the best people can be inspired and encouraged to thrive. That's how you build and join companies. Yeah, which I think brings us back to the final message here of the amazing BoardWave Live event, which is destination. So both Vivian Chan and Amber Vodegor, they both hammered home that too many founders forget to ask, what is the end game? Don't build a company that you wouldn't want your kids to inherit. Love that. That line from Amber really summed it up for me. Yeah, that was a beautiful piece of Dutch directness.

19:15So, you know, all of this is very powerful. And I don't know about you, Paul, but I left BoardWave with the sense that we've moved from an attitude of just building products. We're now engaged in the idea of shaping what the future of European tech actually is. And my increasing belief is we've really got the talent. Like Hussein Qasai said, the access to people in Europe, and this is increasingly showing a US weakness, is phenomenal. Because if you've ever tried to hire anybody with any AI skills on the West Coast, it's a total, total nightmare. there and it's much much easier to hire the right people in the right place at the right salary here absolutely so so i think what phil and kathy have done is now really beginning to bear some fruit yeah i i sense the positivity but really the the pragmatism of what's going on um and i guess the overall question is you know do we back ourselves in europe because the message over and over again is the opportunities right in front of us um but we can't lose sovereignty to other parts of the world i think um given the change between the last board wave live and this board wave live the next one's going to feel very different again if this momentum continues yeah not to be missed thank you for listening if you want to learn more about category design head to be categorical.com if you need help designing and dominating your category then get in touch contact details are in the show notes

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