The Hidden Burnout of ADHD & Autism After Motherhood | MasterChef Vanessa D'Souza

0:00What was the moment that you realized this isn't just new mom exhaustion, but it is an ADHD unique experience? I felt like a fraud because I no longer had this ability to mask anymore. No one prepared me for my neurodivergent brain and what I went through. I experienced such severe burnout. I had no capacity to mask anymore. She's a MasterChef UK semi-finalist, an autistic and ADHD mom, and a voice too many women have needed to hear. Vanessa D'Souza is here for a raw conversation about ambition, identity, and life behind the label. Did anyone talk to you about how can we accommodate you given that you are autistic?

0:42Absolutely not. What was the moment that you realized this wasn't just new mom exhaustion, but it was ADHD meets autism, really taking over your biology. No one prepared me for the hormonal shift that happens from pregnancy to postpartum. I felt amazing in pregnancy. And you will obviously know why, you know, estrogen, you feel great, your dopamine's high. I had this, like I had so much energy that I never had before. And then I gave birth and everything shifted. Hormones went wild. And I think, you know, even neurotypical women, they're prepared for that. But actually, no one prepared me for my neurodivergent brain and what I went through.

1:33I experienced such severe burnout. It It wasn't postpartum depression for me. It was just I had no capacity. I had no capacity to mask anymore because my life was about keeping this little baby alive, regulating myself enough and using every ounce of energy that I had left to mask for this baby. no one prepared me also for the dynamic shift with my husband and family just not understanding me you know for so many years I'd gone through this stage post-diagnosis where I'd unmasked and then I felt like a fraud because I no longer had this ability to mask anymore and that honestly has caused so many ruptures in family relationships um the amount of therapy that i've had to go through and i've put our family through as well because they don't understand why this is happening and i just wish more people would talk about it okay we're gonna talk about it one thing i want to know is you talked about therapy and the biggest struggle that I have had because certainly like there are times where my husband doesn't get me finding a therapist who is actually neuroaffirming because a lot of them say they are but it's lip service how are you able to find that that team member right that like very valuable health care team member for you and your family in all honesty I haven't oh god have been through three therapists and then had to drop them because none of them understood and that is not talked about enough um quite honestly it took three therapists and none of them have worked um my husband has very inattentive very stereotypical male adhd his attitude is like nike just do it i can't i don't have the capacity anymore um and actually i didn't realize how many coping mechanisms that i had even in the relationship post-diagnosis until I had the baby because that capacity disappeared.

3:49The amount that I had to pick up. And it's part of the reason why society thinks males grew out of ADHD. Because, you know, the sad reality is my husband's ADHD and his prefrontal cortex, I am now it, you know, and before me was his mum. So I think men have outsourced their prefrontal cortex to secretaries, mums and wives. And whilst I had the capacity pre-birth, I don't anymore. And it's dealing with that shift and he's not ready for it. You know, the where's my keys, where's my phone, where's my everything. I can't keep track anymore. the mental load on top of the everyday and i think we talk a lot uh on social media about how we have to cope with laundry and cooking and executive dysfunction but who's talking about the step beyond this male researchers are the ones who will say men grow out of adhd but the women who cohabitate with them will tell you and i will fight you to this is a hill i will die on they do not grow out of it.

5:00They outsource it. And I call it borrowing my brain. But then there's only so much capacity. And this is the thing we don't talk about. Our hormones are what fuel the female executive function. For people listening, your executive function is the CEO of your brain. They orchestrate everything. They tell you how to organize things, when you need to do things, how to plan things, how to execute on things, how to see a project all the way through to a finish. And without our hormones, the prefrontal cortex, which is where we run our executive functions, starts to struggle. I want to talk specifically about what felt different and when it felt different, like the timeline.

5:42So you're pregnant, you're bathing in estrogen, you're like, I feel great. You have a baby. Everybody listening, the moment you have a baby is not the moment your hormones drop. It's when your placenta is delivered. And then that's the hormone factory that drops. And as you deliver that placenta, your hormones go down to essentially postmenopausal woman. This is where I always say postpartum is your window into how difficult perimenopause is going to be for you. It's interesting you say about it's when the placenta is released. So I gave birth at around 4 p.m. in the afternoon. My placenta did not come out for six and a half hours because my autism was so disorientated by the fact that there was 30 people in the room.

6:27Oh, I could not handle that. Unfortunately, we had a situation where my son needed a bit of help after birth and I was not prepared for when they press that buzzer and suddenly a whole host of people have come in when I've had 12 hours in a wonderfully moody all dhd heavenly room in a water bath and now there's suddenly an audience there's noise going on there's beeping and you're just in this post-birth dissociation um and actually when i watch back the videos after that i was in such a great cognitive state until the placenta was released. And it almost hits you like a truck straight away. And I actually stayed in the hospital for another three days because I didn't feel ready to go home.

7:23Physically, I was ready. Mentally, I certainly was not. I don't believe I had enough support. And there is enough support with women and breastfeeding, especially neurodivergent women that may have sensory sensitivities and breastfeeding. And I certainly struggled with that. Let me just preface, If your baby needs help, you're in the right place. And having 30 people is amazing. And modern medicine does absolutely save lives. But that birth experience left you dysregulated. Did anyone talk to you before? Because you were diagnosed before you were pregnant. Did anyone talk to you about how can we accommodate you given that you are autistic?

8:01Absolutely not. I live in the UK and it's just not a thing. So I was very lucky because obviously I was diagnosed before pregnancy. So I went in with a very basic knowledge of I knew I couldn't do the big lights and the hospitals and the this, but I also knew I couldn't have a home birth because in the UK, it's just not supported in the same way. But I was adamant that I had to be in a birthing centre because that environment was the best. Hands off, mood lighting, midwife led. Amazing. But I had to fight for that. And, you know, medical professionals in the UK will tell you, you are almost 40, you're high risk, you're of an ethnic minority that is predisposed for diabetes, other things.

8:47We actually advise that you should go to a labor ward. I could not do it. And I had to fight till the death for my birthing experience to be in a birthing suite. What changed for you? So you said you mentally weren't ready in the hospital. What happened? I don't think I was ready for the hormonal shift because it's not talked about in the UK specifically.

9:12I could not cope with any of the coping mechanisms that I had. I lost them all. What coping mechanisms did you have specifically that you were like, these are my go-to? And then they were suddenly like worthless. suddenly you have this newborn baby my first child as well this is all new to me i've lost all autonomy i've lost all kind of bodily kind of autonomy which is a big deal to me especially as somebody who doesn't like to be touched i knew the moment that i went back home how do i find the capacity to cook to clean to look after the baby feed the body exclusively with my body, look after my husband and now deal with the wealth of people and family members that want to come over, see the baby, stay with us in our tiny, tiny apartment.

10:06And I just had no capacity for niceties anymore. So I turned into this almost devil where I was very brutally honest and no one was ready to listen because it was like well you had a job before you were cooking you were cleaning now you're not working so what's the issue i just want to pause there because being honest is seen as the devil as a woman not always smiling being polite and making other people's comfort priority ahead of your own is seen as something really negative but if you were a man who was doing that it would be like well yes of course yes of course exactly um i think being honest people aren't ready for that the thing that i get sort of questioned on the most is my honesty versus what they deem to be acceptable people don't want to hear the truth You know, your presence is too much for me.

11:08That's a personal attack for them. No one is actually thinking, why is this too much for Vanessa? You know, also, I feel like we've lost the village. You know, I have a grandmother who had six children. She didn't do it on her own. She had people helping her. She had people bringing food over. Everyone would help with the baby. But now in modern society, we are expected as women to do everything. And for somebody to come over, hold the baby and you host them. And I was not ready for this. And when I tried to be honest about it, it was not met kindly. Yeah, it was not. What did it look like trying to have an honest conversation and the reactions you received?

11:54So I gave birth in September. I had to hold it in until April the next year. So for a good sort of eight months. What do you mean hold it in? It was not met with kindness. Oh. It was you're overreacting, you're too much. And these are coming from people who love me. You know, they just don't understand. But respectfully, I didn't understand myself. I didn't understand my own needs because they were so new to me. The whole of my husband's family was over for Easter. And I just had a massive explosion. it looked like the worst meltdown you could ever have and you talked earlier about you'd say something that you might you might regret that's what came out mean horrible things came out because i was at capacity but that's because no one was listening to me for seven or eight months I kept saying the same thing.

12:51And I think women need to be more honest about those experiences and why they happen. That hormonal shift, my family truly believe it was like postnatal depression. It wasn't. It's just that I was in burnout and no one is helping me in the way that I need to be helped. And I think, you know, just to frame it from the hormone perspective, So we talked about estrogen, helps with the CEO, the executive functioning of the brain. Progesterone is also there to stimulate GABA receptors, to give you that chill and calm feeling. And when progesterone is stimulating those GABA receptors correctly, we are not so reactive to stress.

13:32And it's not a choice. I think this is important for people to understand. You said meltdown. People will call that a tantrum. And I disagree. A tantrum is a choice. It's a manipulation that adults will engage in, right? Throwing a fit to get your way, being coercive. A meltdown is a severe override of your sympathetic nervous system in which your body is feeling like it's going to die. Like it feels like the threat is so big that it's going to die. Now, progesterone can help dampen that. You do not have progesterone until you ovulate again. And most women are not going to ovulate again until six months postpartum, some a year.

14:13The other thing we don't talk about is being in your 40s. So starting at age 25, our testosterone declines. As we get into our 40s, some of us have even lower testosterone because your ovaries are not working. They're on hiatus. You're breastfeeding. And the adrenal glands are getting hit every day with you're not sleeping. Someone's crying. You've got to be suckled. Like, right? There's like all of this stuff that is hitting the HPA access system. So now you're not making the DHEA. Like chronic stress causes DHEA to go down. And that's the only way you're getting testosterone. Where am I going with this, everyone?

14:48Testosterone for women is how we feel strong in setting our boundaries, but also we feel strong and safe in our environment. And when testosterone is also down, we feel vulnerable and we are going to have an overreactive HPA access system. And so I want to frame it in that way, because if anybody's listening right now being like, well, maybe she was overreacting. Maybe she was being too much. that's the hormones you're talking about. Physiologically, these are real changes taking place. So when you had that blow up, that meltdown, did people then meet you with compassion or was it once again like, can you please just go back to masking because we liked that version of you better?

15:26Correct. One thing I hear from women all the time is that they're struggling with symptoms like hot flashes, sleep disruptions, and brain fog, but aren't sure where to turn to for help. Menopause is inevitable, but suffering through it isn't. That's why I want to tell you about Alloy. Alloy is a digital health platform that connects you with a menopause-specialized doctor who can create a personalized treatment plan tailored to your needs, all from the comfort of your home. Join the 95 % of women who tried Alloy and saw relief in the first two weeks. head to myalloy.com and use the code DRBRYTEN.

16:08That's myalloy.com, M-Y-A-L-L-O-Y.com and the code DRBRYTEN, D-R-B-R-I-G-H-T-E-N. Share your symptoms and you'll get a fully customized treatment plan and unlimited messaging with your doctor. Plus, you'll get$20 off your first order today. that's m-y-a-l-l-o-y dot com code dr brighton and it was at that point where i had to seek therapy and i had to engage reluctantly my husband didn't want to see a therapist because respectfully he he doesn't believe he's the issue i'm the issue yeah so um the whole family had to get involved we had to get my mother-in-law involved because you know i come from a very or the HD family.

16:59So boundaries are respected, because they understand, we all need space. My husband doesn't come from that kind of family. And so I think how I tried to mask or when you have no capacity, it came across as quite controlling, you know, because that's the only way I could have some capacity to be able to do anything. And so I was met with phrases like narcissism um yeah it's difficult because how do you meet somebody that just doesn't understand with any sort of compassion can i ask you is your husband's family are they white they are okay so the reason i ask this for everyone listening um is because so is my husband's family and they're actually, they come, his lineage comes from the UK, UK, then Canada.

17:52And it is be polite at the expense of yourself. It is be polite always, always, always, always. And I'm a Latina and we are expressive. We are animated. We yell and we yell when we're excited and we yell when we're mad. And if I, if I'm upset with you and I'm actually like fighting with you, like I actually care about you, you know, the minute I'm done with this relationship is when I just stopped talking to you and I disassociate. So like, it's very different culturally and that I have found, you know, the same kind of experience with them. They've never like, you know, they're too polite to say anything to me.

18:28They're probably listening to this podcast right now being like, yeah, we are too polite to say anything to you. So I just asked that question because I think culturally, like, you've got a whole nother dynamic on top of that, which I very much resonate with. Yes. Hard relate to all of this. So my parents are from India. We have a culture where we're very open and honest, and I would say brutally honest in some situations. And my husband and his family are just not from that kind of lineage. and I don't think it was ever apparent because we never spent that much time with each other's families prior to having a baby like my mother-in-law would never come round and stay with us for two three weeks at a time so um the politeness was difficult um I don't think they're also they're from a very avoidant background I'm not um my autism loves direct clarity like I but I feel you.

19:29Yeah, it comes across as very rude for them. And it's just the boundary to avoidant people. It cannot exist. So it's easier to say that I'm overreacting. I'm too much. I need to get on with it. And it's the simple things you talked about the robe and being in pajamas. I'm the same. And it comes across to them as postnatal depression that Vanessa's not showering. Actually, sensory issues it's just too much for me and and i've had other um adhd autistic adhd people on the podcast and we have all talked about like just opening the caps on bottles in the shower it just feels so heavy to do when you're so mentally exhausted and i just want to have a meltdown when my husband says just do it just get in the shower the worst thing is he says don't think about it just do it do you understand my brain at all of course I have to think about every single step um my brain works much to the same with as many autistic people I need to understand everything before I get into something and his brain does not work like that his family brain does not work like that and so it's easy to say well just try and understand each other explain it doesn't work to avoidant people it doesn't work um and i'd love to say we're 17 months now postpartum i would love to say that we have got to a good place and we haven't our relationship is great however we're still facing the same issues because i am still having to mask I am still having to be his prefrontal cortex.

21:13And somebody has to win. And unfortunately, it's not me. And it always comes at the expense of the neurodivergent woman in my experience. Their brain shrink. For the first six months postpartum, you don't have capacity. Your brain shrinks so that you're solely focused on their survival. The other thing that happens that I think hits neurodivergent women more is that your brain becomes fine-tuned to the cries, to the sounds, to the cues of the baby. And that can be completely overstimulating. So we've talked about some of like the emotional relationship dynamics, but I'd love to hear like what happened for you like in terms of sensory input?

21:53Because you alluded like the breastfeeding being hard too. Yes. You talk about the coping mechanisms. My coping mechanism to dealing with the overstimulation from the baby is to stop it before it starts. And so I am living in a heightened state where I am constantly on mode to anticipate my baby's needs before he has to communicate them because ultimately all they can communicate is with a cry. so I have a baby that barely cries he doesn't scream but that's because I am 75 steps ahead in anticipating his needs I also had to push past my own severe sensory issues of breastfeeding if I had the choice I probably wouldn't have breastfed but it's the easiest way to regulate a baby and feed him on demand thinking about carrying formula how long it's been out for has it expired traveling with it it was too much for my brain as somebody who's very all or nothing it was i have to make breastfeeding work even to my own detriment and i spent a lot of money working with a doula to try and help me and weirdly you're meant to only use nipple shields really for the transition stage of when you start i'm 17 months in and i am still breastfeeding with a nipple shield because that's the only way i can feed in a semi-sensory safe way um but as you know as long as you breastfeed those prolactin levels will stay at that heightened state and dopamine will go down.

23:41And so finding the executive function to do anything else is so, so hard. So I have the capacity to breastfeed, look after a baby, anticipate his needs, but I don't have the capacity to do anything else. And actually looking after my husband anymore is another chore. I don't have the capacity for another child, a man child that I did not give birth to, unfortunately. And that is very, very apparent. Let's talk a little bit more about what that experience has been like for you, because you're like, I don't have capacity for the executive function. Like, what does that actually look like in your day to day life?

24:16Finding the energy to cook, to clean, to also go back to a corporate job that I'm doing. On top of all of the things that I normally do, look after the baby, look after a husband, look after a home. I just cannot do them anymore. I haven't posted online pretty much since I gave birth because I just do not have the capacity. There's so much that I want to say. I want to talk about. I've started to get a bit more capacity now because we're 17 months in. In a couple of weeks, my son's going to start nursery, which will give me three days a week back. But right now, I cannot take that shift. Yeah, it's just a bit too much, I think.

24:58Mm hmm. I'm going to play devil's advocate here because I'm sure someone's going to be in the comments saying, well, why don't you just stop breastfeeding? If it's so hard, why don't you just stop? I could stop breastfeeding, but then what do I do with a dysregulated baby? Because I don't know how to parent without breastfeeding. And respectfully, I am terrified to stop breastfeeding because I don't know what to do with him. What do I do to regulate myself with a dysregulated child? And I'm very aware of nature and nurture, and I don't want to pass on my dysregulation to my son. there's so many sensory issues that I have I have never taken my son swimming because I don't want to let him see me in that heightened sensory state that I have when it comes to flaws and wetness and the transitions from wet to dry I just cannot cope so in answer to that question ask me when he's two or when he decides that breastfeeding is enough but at this moment I'm going to keep going because that's the only way I know how to parent in a regulated way.

26:03Yeah. I breastfed both my boys until they were three. One tip I will give that I found has helped is blowing bubbles, starting at a young age, teaching them to inhale and blow bubbles. And then when we get dysregulated and we're in the house, we're like, let's blow bubbles. And we pretend to blow bubbles. And that breathing helps with regulation. And I do blow bubbles in my house sometimes and it's a mess and it's gross. But it's also the kind of thing that like has helped with a toddler, like starting young to help with regulating. I don't know if that helps you. Thank you. Any tips are always welcome.

26:37And I think it's important that we all share what works for some. Yeah. That and weighted blankets. Living under weighted blankets. I love a weighted blanket. Oh, yeah. I'm like, it's really helpful. But I also have a morning cuddler and like, Like, which is great. Sometimes taking space is absolutely essential. Yeah. But you also need somebody to step in. Okay. So is your husband not stepping in? He does, but he works very hard. And so I don't think I was prepared enough for the lack of partnership that I thought that we would have with parenting. And that's also a cultural thing because he has come from a lineage of absent fathers.

27:18His mother, his father. and I've come from a mother and a father that were very very equal they both did their share and I think I've come also from a from a father that had stepped in a bit too much actually he was more of the mother than than my mum was so he used to cook he used to clean he used to do all the school drops so I think my expectations are you know no one's right and no one's wrong it's just our expectations are different. So my husband feels he's doing amazing. He's doing a lot because from his perspective, he is. From my perspective, I'm thinking this is nothing compared to what my dad does.

28:00So it's a misalignment, but how can you get that to change? You can't. It's getting easier as my son is older because, you know, by the very nature, he's able to go with my husband more. I'm not breastfeeding as much, you know. He's a bit more of a person now. I think it's quite hard for males sometimes to bond when they're very, very small. It takes them a lot longer, doesn't it? Yeah. But yeah, I don't think that I got the support that I needed. To be the wife, the mother, and then also have this career and you can't do it all. And I think what you're speaking to is something a lot of couples have gone through and a lot of women are going to resonate with.

28:39Yeah. And I feel like I would have felt less alone if people were more honest about that. And I think probably because, you know, no one wants to sit on a podcast and say they didn't feel supported by their husband. But actually, it needs to be said. Sometimes it really does. Because if I had seen more women be honest about this, I would have felt less alone in this situation. No, I definitely agree. I remember any time a patient would come into me, though. And the door would close and then they would tell the truth. I don't feel supported. They would say all these things. And I'm like, me too.

29:11And they're like, wait, you too? And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, but wait, you're the doctor. Like you're supposed to be like, like this smart person who's like figured things out. And I'm like, I hate to break it to you. None of us women have actually been honest about this situation because, you know, I will say at the time, like 15, 20 years ago, it was be a super mom. You can have it all. I want to ask you, What do you feel like are the early signs women should have known to watch out for postpartum, being autistic, being ADHD? The extreme burnout that happens before you get the notice.

29:46Without being postpartum, you know that you're going into burnout and you could probably, if you have the awareness, stop yourself. You do the things that you need to do to regulate. That rug gets completely pulled out from underneath you when you are postpartum. And so ensuring that you have a support system where people understand. And it's interesting because you've just replayed the exact conversation I have with my husband, but he just doesn't have the same level of understanding and awareness that your husband has. So my husband will say, be nice because he thinks I'm being mean. And when I say I'm being factual, he says you use that as an excuse because he doesn't have that level of understanding about my autism.

30:32And it's something that we need to work on. And I hope in time that the understanding will be there. But having that support system that understand that it's not a choice. This is biological. It's hormonal. It's neurodevelopmental. Would have helped me massively. Mm hmm. What were the early signs of burnout for you? What were the early signs that you think women should be aware of? Good question. I have to put in a lot of work now to look back because a lot of it is a blur. You know, you're in your postpartum state. I always call it like it's a dementia kind of state. You forget so much. But for me, it was just extreme tiredness.

31:15It doesn't help that I have a low sleep needs baby. You know, what I thought was normal for my baby. He came out of the womb and he was awake for probably 12 hours. That was mine. Oh, my God, that was my first birth, too. There is also a huge thing between neurodivergent children and low sleep needs. I don't know. I'm not here to diagnose my son, you know, or preempt anything. But what I will say, factually, I threw a lot of money at it with sleep consultants because 13 months in, I just needed to sleep because it would give me a little bit more time to rest and recover. Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready.

31:58Because Quaker's coming in hot with morning nutrition, 100 % whole grain oats, and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kickstart your day. And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker, official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26. But the reality is I have a nine hour total sleep baby and we're 17 months in. Nine hours total sleep. And that's not through the night either. So I'm averaging four hours of sleep a night and that's not good for anybody. No. It's not. Yeah. Finding ways to regulate in pockets of postpartum life is key. if I had more time to regulate watching my favorite shows watching Masterchef watching you know things that I need to sitting under a weighted blanket it would help me it would have helped me so much more but unfortunately life has to continue I have to mask and there was almost this level of resentment where why am I masking with so many things to overcome and my husband doesn't have to mask.

33:14We talk about the default parent, but what about adding neurodivergence on top of that? The resentment that he can just go about and live his life and be his authentic self. Oh, that's my ADHD brain. I don't know where my keys are, my phone are. Please pick up the slack. I can't do it. There is a different expectation for women versus men when it becomes when it comes to being neurodivergent. And what I find so interesting is the expectation on women of like, you need to mask, you need to perform if you have autism, is then also weaponized that if you are able to do that, therefore, you're not disabled.