Why 79% of Parents Are Getting It Wrong (and How to Fix It) | Ann-Louise Lockhart

25:22He has an MBA. I have a doctorate. But I'm like, man, had we not done that, would we either of us ended up going to college? And so, you know, frame in, in the framework of what we're talking about, like, what is more important? Is it, is it the, the testing and the making sure that you're like, you're, you're checking all the boxes and you've got A's and everything. Of course there's getting into college, right? That matters. or is it instilling that love of your learning? I'm thinking about how these opportunities present us as parents opportunities to instill that love of learning. Yeah, the love of learning is a big thing and I think our K-12 system has gotten away from that.

25:59It's still very old school, like old. Like 200 years old. Yes, absolutely. When I speak to so many students and my own kids and seeing how they're learning and the way, I'm like, wait, is this the 1980s? Why are they still teaching things this way. And so I love these schools that are more innovative and really think outside the box because our kids do need to learn differently. And it doesn't mean that you're abandoning education. It means that you're adapting to the kids in front of you. And that's how we need to do. It's like anything else. Like we don't do, as a psychologist, I don't do psychology the same way that they did it 50 years ago.

26:33Like it's okay to change it. We don't do technology the way we used to. Again, we adapt. We don't do movies and promotions and marketing, like everything has adapted. So why hasn't our education system adapted? Let me ask you why. I don't know. I think it's just so much when I speak to a lot of people in education, they're like, well, that's just the way we've always done it. That's always the excuse I hear is, well, it's just the way we've always done it. And that's the mindset that's teaching children. It's just, if you've always done it this way, there's this thing called sunk cost. One of the most revolutionary things I ever learned in my life in college was sunk cost.

27:08And just because you put all this energy and effort. If it ain't working, sunk cost. You got to abandon it and just sometimes be like, that hurt. That was not great. And then you adapt and you move on. We also teach in biology, the adaptable organism is the one that survives. This is the rule of all biological beings and systems. And yet we've got a system that's rigid going against even just organically what we are at our essence as humans. Exactly. And so then we're teaching them not to adapt to your environment, not to think critically, not to think outside the box. And then when they do any of those things, they get punished in some way because they're not doing it the way we've taught.

27:50So even when I teach my kids a different way of figuring out a math problem or writing something and the teacher's like, no, that's not the way I taught you. Well, but that's not the only way of doing this. There's many other ways of doing this. That's something that I'll say when I was homeschooling my son and we would go through math. I could not teach math the way they had it in the book. I'm like, look, I know algebra really well. So I was a math tutor in college. And so I'm like, I can set it up and formulas and stuff. And then he would come at it a completely different way. He taught me math in ways that I'm like, whoa, wait, I never, where did you learn that?

28:24And he's like, that's just the way I see the problem. And I'm like, that's astounding. He also does so much in his head, which is always our challenge. I'm like, you have to actually put it down and prove that you have to prove you got to the answer. And he's like, why? If I can get to the right answer, I'm like, because that's how it works when you go to school. I'm like, I don't have a good answer. I think you have to do that, right? Because you're cheating otherwise, unless you prove that you're doing that. So you brought up some things that I think are conflicts with parents, right? Between parents and teachers is that your child can arrive at the answer in a different way.

28:57Your child has critical thinking skills, which often gets them in trouble with adults who just want you to ask no questions, just do what you're told. How can parents interface with teachers so there's not a conflict? Because teacher, let me just say this, teachers, man, they're already working hard enough, not being paid enough. So like, we don't need to be making like fights with teachers. They want the same outcome. They want students who learn, who love learning, who are getting good grades, who are performing well. But sometimes there's that mismatch of like, the curriculum doesn't work for this child.

29:27But I think that's where parents and teachers and school districts talking collaboratively is the solution. Because I do agree, our teachers are burnt out, overworked. There's school districts that I've worked with and done workshops for where they don't even have enough teachers. So they just bring in people and quickly train them to go in the classroom with no prior education or classroom management learning. So it's like, do you expect for them to stay as well too without any of that foundational stuff. So teachers are stretched and I really appreciate teachers. I've had some really amazing ones in my life.

30:03But I think one of the ways to help our teachers in our schools is for them to be a collaborator with parents, for both parents and teachers to collaborate. So that way they have the tools necessary that, yes, I know this is how we're doing things. This is how my kid tends to work through things. Is it possible that we can look at this another way or integrate another way of learning or another way of thinking about this thing or looking at the different areas that you're learning about in history or figuring out how to do math problems using technology like being able to have open collaborative conversations because many times I think what happens that teachers do get stuck like everybody else we get stuck in well this is the way that I was taught to do it so this is the way that I'm doing it.

30:47Well, yeah, but there are other ways that we can do it. How about this? I was just having a conversation with someone the other day. I was listening to a song on a radio from Alanis Morissette, Ironic. And I'd never listened to the words before. And I'm like, wow, she's defining the word, what irony means. And I said, how interesting would that be if you're an English teacher, for example, and you say, hey, guys, I'm going to bring back someone from the 1900s, and I'm going to play a song. Did you say that? I'm going to play a song. It sounds like 1900. It is, it is. You know, and I'm going to play a song called Ironic.

31:27What do you notice, right? So now you have a vocabulary word that is done in an artistic form. You know, they're going to be interested because they love the music stuff. Most people really vibe with that. And then maybe saying, okay, now with the rest of our vocab words, everybody's going to go in a group of two and three and you're going to find a creative way to define and explain this particular word. And how cool would that be? And how interesting? I remember a teacher of ours doing that when I was in junior high, where we had to come up with a jingle and create a restaurant. And I still remember that to this day, because it was a way to be creative.

32:04I don't even remember why we were doing it, but I remember it very well that it was just fun. It was engaging. And I think when teachers and parents can work together to find new creative ways to make learning fun. And then you'll have students who are more engaged and want to come to your class and be, you know, participating in it. Yeah. And I think it was really helpful that you gave some language around that, about how you actually approach a teacher and talk to them. Because I also think that sometimes with parents, like, I know I look back and I'm like, there are so many times I can count like just having the worst interactions with my teachers.

32:39Mrs. Greitz, you never needed to tell me I talk too much over and over and over. Now I have a podcast and I speak on stages. So turns out that was actually a good thing. However, I think sometimes too, we remember what it's like for us. And so when you go to approach a teacher, you're just like, oh gosh, like this is a person in a position of authority. And then your stuff from school comes back. So having actual language of like, how do you have this collaborative conversation is really helpful. And also teaching your kid how to advocate for themselves in a respectful way. Yeah. Because for me, when I was in high school, I called out my teachers and in a way that they didn't like.

33:17I told my kids that I had a 12th grade accounting teacher and he would show up and he would plop his book on the table and prop up his feet and say, okay. And I'm like, so are you going to teach us today? And he's like, well, you have your book. And I'm like, and we have our teacher. And so I reported him to the principal. I'm like, he never, he's not teaching us. He's expecting us to teach ourselves. And I would talk to the kids. I'm like, I don't think you want to completely approach it that way, but it's okay to advocate for yourself. It's okay to speak up and say how, if your educational needs are not being met, if you feel disrespected by a teacher, if you feel like if you want to take ownership for ways that maybe you have not behaved in the way that you should, whatever it is, like advocate for yourself as well.

33:59And you're learning. It's not always rewarded because I've had kids say, well, I've done that. And then we got in trouble because then we look like we're being disrespectful to our grownups. Yeah. So, I mean, it's hit or miss. But again, through that, you're learning. You're learning about how to speak up. You're learning about what is appropriate. You're learning about what people are going to accept and who to speak to to get things done. I want to zone in on that being disrespectful to grownups. Why is it that because you're older, you have to you command respect, but you don't have to dish the same respect to a full human, which is a child.

34:33It is a conversation I have so much. Whenever I bring that up about it's important for adults to be respectful of teenagers and kids too. I always get the look and the giggles and the like rolling the eyes. I'm like, what is so strange about hearing that? But they're kids, right? So how is it that adults get to speak to them whatever way they want, but they can't speak back. Well, because they're kids. Okay, oh my gosh, this logic. But again, it's that old thinking, that seen and not heard, don't speak when I'm talking to you. I'm the grownup, I know better. But that's such a dangerous road to go down because that's where a lot of kids then get hurt by adults in some kind of way and they can't speak up, well, because it's a grownup and I'm supposed to go along with grownups And then they don't have a voice.

35:25They're not able to advocate for themselves and speak up for themselves. And I think that's a dangerous road. So we want to also be able to tell our kids, you don't have to go along with what adults want you to do. It's okay to speak up for yourself. And it's not being disrespectful if they're being disrespectful to you. But it's something that a lot of adults don't and cannot let go because I'm still hearing so much about it. Because again, that's the message that we heard as adults. Yeah. That's what we're teaching to the kids. Yeah. And it's very interesting to me because even as an adult, other adults see boundaries as disrespect, as like an assault, an affront on them.

36:04And I think so much to the fact that like, if we had to have this model to us as children, we would all be communicating on a much better level. I'm curious because you said it's a dangerous road to go down. What is at the end of the road for a child who feels like they can't speak up, they can't advocate for themselves? And they don't have adults they can rely on. Well, that's where you see a lot of abuse. Emotional, psychological, sexual, physical abuse. Because if adults are supposed to know better, then what do I have to say about it? And if they can touch me the way they expect to or speak in the way they want to or manipulate me the way they want to and I cannot speak up, then okay, I guess that's what I do.

36:48Because they're an adult and they should know better. So I think in the extreme, that's the dangerous road that we can lead kids to because I'm supposed to just put up with it. And adults can speak to me however they want. They can do and say whatever they want. And I'm just supposed to be a kid and be quiet. And I think that's the extreme of how bad it can get if we continue to increase this message to our kids about this is the adult. You're the kid. You need to respect them regardless of how they treat you. We need to move away from that. That's not a healthy conversation to have for kids. And it's not a healthy mindset for them to have because not all adults are safe.

37:27Yeah. No, that's a very real, very true statement. I want to ask you, so I want to go into our two truths and a lie segment. So I'm going to state these three statements. You all get to guess who are listening, go to YouTube, put it in the comments of which one you think is the lie. And we'll give you some time. We'll talk about something else. I'll give you some time to put it in, but let me read these. So number one, most teens would rather talk to friends than parents about mental health. Number two is conflict over chores predicts long-term relationship struggles between parent and teen. And number three is teens who feel heard at home are less likely to engage in risky behavior.

38:08So we're going to unpack these in just a minute. But what I want to ask you while everyone's writing in their answer, what's the one piece of advice parents are consistently told about teens that you completely disagree with? That they are disobedient and they are hard to raise. That the teen years, oh, people are always like, oh, wait till they're teens. And that teens are problematic and they have behavioral issues. I hear that often that, oh, it's the teen years. Oh, can't wait till the teen years. And that's not true. Most teens don't have struggles and challenges just because they become teens.

38:47But I think so often parents see it and they expect it. And they sometimes elicit that behavior because they're not changing and adapting their parenting as the kid gets older. When your kid is 2 versus 5 versus 10 versus 15 versus 19 versus 21, you need to parent them differently. And many times as parents, we're not shifting our parenting identity. We're parenting a 12-year-old like we did our five-year-old and we need to shift. So parents are often told about teenagers that, oh, there's a group of teenagers. They're in trouble. They're difficult. Wait till they're teenagers. And that's one I believe that people have wrong.

39:26It's one of my favorite populations to work with. And they're really an amazing group if you understand where they are. What does that adaptation look like? Because I think for most parents, they're like, I got to figure it out. I'm going to figure it out. I figured it out. But then there's the only thing that's constant, I think, about parenting is that once you figured it out, they completely change. Yes, absolutely. Once I'm like, and I noticed that once I think my son was like one and I was like, oh, I thought I had it. I don't. This is the road. Okay. So what does the adaptation look like?

39:58It's changes based on the age, based on their developmental stage, based on a diagnosis, based on their personality, based on your culture. It's based on a whole bunch of stuff because you have to, even within the same home, you have to be able to adapt to whoever is the kid in front of you. And what I often talk about is, I believe a lot of us as parents, including myself, parent imaginary children. We don't parent this kid in front of us. We parent the kid in our mind, the kid that we thought we were going to have. We parent ourselves. This is how I was, or this is how they were 10 years ago.

40:32and adaptation means that we are shifting based on whoever is the one in front of you, whatever struggle, whatever strength, whatever triumph, whatever it is, and we have to adapt. And so is it confusing? Oh yeah, absolutely. Because like you said, every time you think you figured it out, then they just switch it up on you. Or now they have a new challenge or now something is going on in your life and you have to adapt because of that. So it's really about understanding who is in front of you and making sure that you shift and ask them what they need. Like have a conversation with them. And that's where a lot of the repair comes in.

41:07You know, I notice I've been on you a lot about cleaning your room, but I can see that it is a struggle for you. What's going on that's making it hard? So you're just checking in, you're asking. I know that I've been on you about your grades, but obviously, you know, there's something that you're struggling with and I haven't dug deep enough to find out what's going on. So I apologize for that. Can we reset? So can you tell me what's happening? So that's how we're able to figure it out is that you just ask them. You lean in and have that connection and that relationship. And again, because parents think, well, I'm the adult and they shouldn't have an attitude.

41:43And so why should I apologize? Well, that's part of the respect, the mutual respect. Yeah, you should apologize. You should take ownership. Many of us as adults, when I speak to parents, they never got the repair from their own parents. That's a new concept for a lot of people to repair. Well, I yelled at you because you made me. Well, that's not a repair. You know, I'm sorry that I yelled. I should have taken a deep breath instead or gone for a walk. I apologize. So it's not that you're, yeah, maybe that they pushed your last nerve, but you need to take responsibility for that. So a lot of it is really looking at who is in front of you and where are you missing the mark with it?

42:19And then pivot. So let's go through these true or false. Okay. Most teens would rather talk to a friend than parents about mental health? So I believe that is false. Okay. Why do you think that's false? Well, I mean, it's so tricky because when I look at some of the research, there is some that says that teens would rather speak to their parents because they want to be able to rely on them. And then there's others that say that as kids are getting older, they would they move from relying on their parents as their source of support to their peers so there's a shift at times but I think when it comes right down to it though I really do believe that teens would rather speak to their parents honestly yeah yeah what's interesting is that when I was looking into this it was that teens would speak to their peers more about mental health but they wouldn't talk about it for as like in the language that we would use right of like I'm feeling depressed or I'm filling down, they would use a different type of language.

43:30But what I'm also hearing is that it depends because it's right because the teenage years are about that autonomy and breaking from the family unit, not completely separating, not to freak out any moms who are like, wait, they're going to leave. But no, but like actually, I should say it's an extension, right? It's branching out to more communities. Well, let me ask you this one then, true or false. Conflict over chores predicts long-term relationship struggles between parent and teen? I don't believe that's true because I think that we have two, two lies.

44:11But again, it's like, that's where there's nuance, right? I mean, I think there's some exceptions, but there is a lot of evidence that shows that conflict within the moment over things like chores can feel like, oh, this is going to be the end of our relationship. But no, I think long-term wise, it doesn't have to be. It could be in the moment. That's where we want to build up the skills. And so building up the skills, finding out their true issue that's going on and meeting the need that's driving that behavior of whatever is going on or the lack of response to the behavior is also important to address so that they can have those skills and then make different choices.

44:46But I don't think that the conflict over the chores necessarily would be long-term negative impacts on the relationship. Well, let's hope this isn't three lies and a lie. So here we go. Teens who feel heard at home are less likely to engage in risky behavior. Yes, I think that's true. Okay. And why is that? Because they feel known and heard and understood and they feel like the people get them. And one of the biggest things I hear from teenagers is they often feel misunderstood. They don't feel like the adults in their life, their parents or their teachers get them. And so when they feel heard and understood, there is no reason to act out in other ways.

45:26Because often I think that risky behaviors, acting out and making poor choices is a way to be noticed, to feel seen, to feel heard. And so when people say, oh, they're just cutting because they want people to pay attention. Okay, well, let's pay attention then. Or they're just speeding on the road because whatever. Like, well, but those are risky behaviors and let's, maybe it's because they're not being seen in some way. So I think when teens feel understood, they feel connected, they're less likely to do the dumb stuff. So a big question that people often have is how do I get my teen to actually listen to me?

46:00So I'm curious, what's the mistake most of us are making? We're not listening enough. We want them to listen to us, but our problem is we're not listening. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because we hear something and we jump into rescue mode. We jump into fixing mode. We jump into advice giving before truly hearing what's going on. I have a series that I've been doing on my YouTube and Instagram about how as parents, we often respond and people like, well, how are you able to get this right? I'm like, well, because this is what I want to say or I have said. So a teen, I hear this a lot, especially in our Latino or Black Asian community these teenagers tells their parent, I'm feeling depressed.

46:45Why are you depressed? You have a house, you have money, you have food on the table. Look at all the sacrifices we've made for you. You have no reason to be depressed. Why are you depressed? Just sweep the floor and call it a day and be happy, right? My mom would drink water or take a nap. My mom would say, oh, life is hard. You just move on. Okay, thanks. That helps. So it's that whole idea of you didn't hear what I just said, I'm feeling depressed. So then what happens is that parents either tell a kid what to do or what to say or whatever and give really shallow advice, or they're not really hearing what's driving this behavior.

47:25Why is this occurring? And what I tell parents all the time is kids don't need a reason to be depressed. Depression doesn't need a reason. Sadness, there's a reason. So if something sad happens, you should feel sad. Depression goes beyond the reason, which is why it's so difficult to grasp and understand. So instead, take a step back. Don't feel offended, because I think a lot of parents do respond this way because they feel like, well, what did I do wrong that you feel this way? Or it's a reflection on me that you feel this way. It's like, no, make it less about you and refocus on the teenager.

47:57So the biggest thing is to just listen, to find out what is truly going on with them. Again, listening to what they have to say, being curious, and then just listening. And even if you don't know what to say or what advice to give, that's not why they're sharing it. Most of the times they just want to be heard. And then you can figure the answer out together. So yeah, I think a lot of teenagers don't listen because they don't feel listened to. Yeah. So what would this look like in practice? If your teen comes to you, they say, I'm depressed. I'm feeling depressed. Like for a parent listening right now, whose default would go, you know, okay, let me problem solve for you.

48:33What would be like an ideal response, right? I don't want to frame this as like, you better get it right all the time. Right, no. What would it look like to start to open up that communication for your teen? So for most parents, it's about taking a breath first to regulate your nervous system. because if your kid or your teen is saying that they're depressed or they're suicidal or they have an eating disorder or any worse parent nightmare kind of statement, it's going to be triggering for many people because you're going to feel like, oh my gosh, what do I do? What do I say? What do I do? So take a breath and try to calm yourself first.

49:09You can even say, wow, I'm so glad you came and spoke to me about this. I know it must be very hard for you to be honest about it. So I'm so happy that you spoke to me about it. okay let me get my mind right because I want to make sure I'm hearing you right so you can just take a pause you don't have to get it right and the the thing is always to get curious I think if you remember nothing else is always get curious so you're feeling depressed yeah tell me what's been going on that you've been feeling that way so just ask questions and that can be for anything even if it's something that they're sharing with you that you don't agree with an identity that they're going along with, a political candidate they're supporting, a protest that they're getting involved in, grades or not wanting to be in school anymore, whatever it is, whatever controversial or whatever topic it is, it's just about getting curious.

50:00Really seek to understand what are they going through and why are they struggling. And if you can just get outside of yourself and make it less about you and more about them, that will always go well every time because you are truly stepping into their world and you're empathizing with what they're going through. And you don't have to agree with it. And it doesn't have to even make sense, but you're just getting curious about it. And then from there, you're validating, empathizing. Wow, that must have been really hard for you to share. It sounds like you've been going through that a long time and been keeping it in a long time.

50:37It sounds like you've been masking a long time, whatever it is has been happening and then validate, you know, a lot of teens go through exactly this. I've learned that one in five teenagers actually has a mental health diagnosis. I've learned that, you know, a lot of 20 % of teenagers actually experience a lot of these struggles and many times they never express it. So it's actually really common. And I'm really sad that that's something you've been going through. You know, it's something, you know, when I was your age, I went through the same thing and I could never tell my parent this. So I'm really glad that you were able to come to me.

51:10So all of these things where you're validating their truth and talking about how hard that must have been and that you, you know, thank them. Thank you for coming to me. And then figuring out together collaboratively, well, now that you've told me about this, I know what's happening. What do you want to do? How can I support you? Do you feel like seeing a therapist would be helpful? Do you want to bring in a friend? Do want to go to a support group? Do you want to get testing to find out what's really happening? Whatever it is, like collaboratively making a decision about what's the next step.

51:43And I think that's where you can bring down the temperature and help them feel like what's going on. So that way you don't have to come up with the right answer. You're just listening. You're just stepping into the messiness with them and helping them know that you're on their side. One in five is not insignificant. That's a very high amount. When it comes to mental health struggles, there's a lot of parents who will blame themselves. Then there are parents who will say, it's just hormones. How much truth is there to that? It's just hormones or should parents be investigating more? Well, I mean, it could be anything.

52:15I mean, really, right? That's why we want to look at all the different things. So even when people come to my office and say, oh, you know, I think my kid might have anxiety or depression. I'm not sure what's going on. Like, we don't know for sure. They could have anemia. They could have low blood sugar. They could have gastrointestinal issues. They can have allergies. They can have a learning challenge. There could be all kinds of things that are going on. Maybe they have vision issues or hearing issues. I truly believe in the holistic appreciation and addressing all of these things. So it might be hormones.

52:48Yeah, you're right. But then let's still collaboratively look at what else could it be. So maybe you start by getting lab work. And there's been times when I've worked with kiddos where they come in and they have what seems to be a mental health issue. They do lab work and they actually have anemia, for example, or they're having seizures. I mean, there's all kinds of things that could be happening. And so it's really about then, yeah, maybe it's hormonal. Let's do a hormonal panel. It doesn't mean that it couldn't be other things as well. And so getting that treated. So I think that we don't want to then look at putting more merit into a medical diagnosis just because mental health diagnoses seem like a stigma to people, which is still a stigma.

53:31Although it's more accepting and people are talking about it more, there is still a stigma about psychotropic medication for mental health diagnoses and mental health diagnosis as well too. So I think we have to look at the whole picture as well. I think that's an important message for people to hear because that default of what we see in the media of like, they're just a moody teen. It's just their hormones. Absolutely. I'm going to link to Dr. Elisa Song's episode for everyone because she actually goes through her panel of blood work she does for teens as part of screening because she was explaining to us, like, you'd be surprised.

54:07It could be hormonal, but not the ones you're thinking. It could be diabetes. Like, it could be other things that are going on. And so the only way we know is to actually screen. And I think about, you know, again, if we thought about an adult, I would never have an adult come to me and I'd be like, it's just hormones. Like, oh, we're just going to ignore everything else. If you're saying you're depressed, like, oh, it's just depression. So we just need to get a prescription on board. Like we would always ask why, what's going on, what we might be missing. And surprisingly, we're seeing a lot more teens getting diagnosed with hypothyroidism these days, leading like hormonal issue that can be contributing to depression and anxiety, insomnia, sleeping too much, like so many things that I'm like you would think is just a normal teenage behavior could actually be attributed to having thyroid disease.

54:59Well, and the moody teen aspect of it is it still needs to be paid attention to. So if you have a kid who's moody, maybe there is this low grade depression. Maybe there's some self-esteem issue or they're being bullied or they don't feel accepted. I speak to so many teens who will say things like, yeah, I'm doing all the things you tell me. I'm getting involved with activities. I'm doing the sports. But every time I'm with a group of other kids, I feel like I'm invisible. I don't feel like I matter. So they're doing all the things. And yet her parents are always saying, oh, well, you're just being moody or just being too sensitive.

55:33Well, but that's still something to pay attention to because then that can lead to anxiety and social anxiety and isolation. and depression. So even if something just feels like a moody teenager, we still need to pay attention to it because it can fester into other problems. Yeah. So. No, I think that's important. I have a 12, almost 13 year old and he definitely had his moment a couple of weeks ago where like he was raging, then he was crying and it was like all over the place. And I was, and I was really worried. And I was like, okay, like, I think we need to get a panel of blood work. Like we need to figure this out.

56:09Like maybe we need to go to the psychologist. The next day we've got acne popping up and he's like, I'm so sorry, mom. And I, I just like, I don't know. I was just feeling really emotional and all these things. And I'm like, okay, we had this little, like one peak of like a testosterone surge. And like the next day I was like, your skin's really oily. That's And he's like, yeah, I have acne all over my nose. I'm like, okay, testosterone surge. Like we're still getting like working up stuff because he needs to have an annual panel. But it was something that the next day when everything was like, okay, we could talk about it.

56:44We got like, we simmered down and stuff. And it was like, okay, these kinds of changes are going to happen. I think women can relate to that the most because our hormones are changing day to day to day over the course of about 29 days. And so we can, for me, I was like, oh yeah, I know what it's like when my testosterone and estrogen teak. And then yeah, I get acne too. And like, yeah, these things can happen. But it doesn't minimize that it's still a problem. So whether you have a diagnosis or not, it's still an issue for this person, right? So just because we don't necessarily have a label or just because it's hormones, doesn't mean we should still ignore it.

57:18But that's the thing is that we should never say to anyone, it's just hormones. And so I'm telling this of like, yes, like this pointed to hormones, but I was very worried in the moment in that day until everything like, you know, simmered down and we were able to have conversations and everything that I was like, my doctor brain is like the differentials just running of like, okay, are we going to need to be able to, do we need to see a psychiatrist? Do we need to like, you know, go like, what do we need to do? Because this is not normal. And even though I identified like, oh, this was hormones.

57:52I'm still looking at your sleep, your diet, like your exercise, like what else is going on? Because to have a swing like that, that was pretty, pretty abrupt. But yes, my point in illustrating this is that that's a red flag if your child behaves like that. And even though I'm like, that was a hormonal issue, saying something's just hormones doesn't make it any easier. Would you tell a late stage perimenopause woman, it's just hormones, just deal with it. And people have been told that, right? And then they die. There's a grave somewhere in the woods. Right. And I think we want to make sure that whatever it is, that there's not a hierarchy of what's more important than others.

58:33Yeah, there are some things that you want to address sooner than others, but whether it's hormones or it's a GI or allergy or a learning challenge or a mental health diagnosis or whatever it is, they're all important. So we want to know that why is it impacting this teen the way it's impacting them so that we're not dismissing it. Yeah. And that's, I really appreciate your like, yeah, but people have told them, absolutely. Absolutely. So many moms right now are being like, yeah, that feels horrible when someone says that to me. So I think we can really reflect on the fact, I mean, people call perimenopause the second puberty and like, it's horrible, just like, I don't recommend zero out of 10.

59:11But, you know, I explain to women that are in perimenopause, and I always relate it to the teenage years as well, is that when women are in perimenopause, they've got about seven to 10 years of their brain completely changing. Their brain is completely remodeling. It's not like you get a new brain, but the actual brain process, the way you actually make energy, it all changes. You did that before. That was the teenage years. And I think when you start to understand, when you're in perimenopause, you understand that you start to have grace for the teens in your life because the same way, I mean, you think people are like, oh, she got her period.

59:46That's the start of puberty. It actually started a couple of years before and it's going to go on. We know from the day she gets her period for another 10 years, there's going to be this brain maturation cycle. Like that's what our teens are going through. So to have a little grace for them, I mean, I live with a preteen. There are annoying times like where you're just like, because especially like when they have like pathological demand avoidance and you can't say, hey did you grab your socks oh my god we're gonna blow up and you're like oh this is so much so much work but then i can step back and have grace for it because i'm like brain is undergoing a maturation process something that's very physiological necessary you know the transition here but also really hard at the same time yep definitely and i think that's why we have to be appreciative of all these changes because we all are going through them my son asked me the other day or just yesterday, actually.

1:00:40He's like, hey, mom, he's 13. He's like, am I annoying? And I'm like, um, I think we could all be annoying because I'm sure I'm annoying to you at times. He goes, yep. I'm like, yep. Right. And so I think this is all a process that they're all going through all these kinds of things. And so are we. And that's why we have to make light of and appreciate that just like they have bad days, they are allowed to have bad days because we also as well too. So we have all these double standards that we often have that, well, I can wake up in a bad mood, but they can't. And I can have a bad day, but they can't.

1:01:15Well, no, I mean, we're all going through stuff. So we have to be appreciative of it. I just want to say, it's so funny that your son asked you that because mine just asked me that a little bit ago, like, do you think I'm annoying? And I was like, let's be honest, cohabitating with humans is hard and everybody gets annoyed by everyone. And if you're not, then you're probably not being yourself. If somebody doesn't find you annoying at some point, then that's really exhausting. And he's like, oh, yeah. I'm like, yeah, because you would have to be pretending to be something different for every single person.

1:01:47And that is just too exhausting. It is too exhausting. Let me ask you in the framework of chores. So where do chores and rules as well and boundaries fit into healthy communication? Because I think this is where like the real friction can start, right? Because, I mean, I'm sure you got 13. I'm almost at 13. And it's like, oh, you need to do this, you know, chore. I'm going to do it later. I'm going to do it never. You can't make me at times. And I always come back to as a parent, like, we are a family. And to have the benefits of a family, we all have to put in the work of a family. At some point, that's going to get old to him.

1:02:27He's not going to buy it anymore from me. But right now, he gets it. That, like, there's a lot of benefits. But we get to enjoy the benefits because we all put in the work. You don't get the benefits of a family without the efforts of a family. But for parents who are listening that are like, I run into the same thing, like chores, my kids, like, I'm not going to do it, going to do it never. Or it turns into a screening match. Like chores are necessary. Well, let's start there. Why are chores necessary? And how can we communicate effectively to help our children take the responsibility of chores?

1:02:59So chores are necessary because if you're living in an environment, you should all contribute to bettering and maintaining the environment. It's part of your responsibility. Everybody has to chip in. So it's teaching your kid that when you are occupying a space, everyone should contribute to maintaining that space. You use dishes, you put them in the dishwasher. You wear clothes, you wash them. You use the toilet, you flush it. You all are part of the community. So it gives them a sense of, it's a community type environment where we all are we all have a say in terms of how we all live so it's just a a basic feels like a human right in a sense that you're all contributing to the environment and it also teaches responsibility it teaches your child that a skill set it helps them to know that oh i know how to do this i know how to do my own laundry again because then once they leave your home do they know how to do the basic things how to cook a basic meal for themselves how to figure out what to make based on the ingredients that they do have how to clean a toilet how to do the laundry how to sort like these skills are necessary so in order to have teenagers who grew up to be self-sufficient adults chores help them get there it helps them feel good about themselves and contributing to that when there's a struggle with parents and teens with kids doing chores again I always go back to getting curious as to why whenever there's a problem with someone being able to do something, instead of looking at the behavior and punishing it, we have to get curious about what is preventing them from showing up as their best self.

1:04:40What's preventing them from doing the thing that they need to do? So if they have a hard time cleaning their room because cleaning the room feels overwhelming, that's the curious part because it's easy to say, well, why didn't you clean your room? Why didn't feel like it? No phone for a week. Well, now you haven't even gotten to the root of the issue. And that's why I talk about executive function skills. Like when you're cleaning a room, it requires organization and planning and task initiation and memory and processing speed and follow through and require emotional regulation, frustration, tolerance.

1:05:16There's a lot of executive function skills that are needed to just clean a room. So it is that hard if you have a kid with neurodevelopmental disorder or diagnosis, with challenges in certain executive functioning skills. So doing a basic task can feel monumental. So then getting curious about, well, what's hard about it? Well, I start and then I get distracted. Or I want to start, but I would rather be watching YouTube. Or I start and then it looks messier than when I started. So that all is data. It gives you information about, oh, that sounds like organization. Oh, that sounds like task initiation.

1:05:55That sounds like poor attention. That sounds like processing speed, whatever, whatever's going on. So then you can implement things that could be helpful. So if they have a hard time doing it because they get distracted, then you can body double with them, which means you're just there present and you're serving like a foreman in a sense where you're, okay, you get the books and I'll get the dirty clothes. All right, great. Okay. Now you get the laundry that's clean and hang it up and I will put the rest in the laundry basket so you can take it downstairs. Or just being present with them while they do it.

1:06:27So that way your presence helps them stay more focused. So whatever it is that you're setting a timer, okay, let's see how much you can get done in 15 minutes. Or let's listen to music while we do it. Or put your friend on FaceTime and you both clean your room together. So it's just getting curious about what's getting in the way of getting the task done like a chore and bringing something enjoyable or fun or accountability partner in order to get it done. And I have a mastermind that I'm a part of. And when they first started different times of the week, they would have a power hour. When I first showed up, they're like, okay, so what are you all working on for the next hour?

1:07:05And then we'll just do it, whatever it is that you're doing. And I'm like, how is this helpful? And I'm like, oh, okay. I see how it's helpful. Because maybe it's the thing that you've been procrastinating on or something that you just needed someone present. And it's amazing how much you could get done just because you have 10, 15, 20 other people on the line knowing that they're going to check in in the last five minutes to see, did you get it done? And it's the same thing that we're doing with this chore thing that we have to get curious about why our teen is not doing it and then help them get past that roadblock rather than putting in more roadblocks or slapping on a punishment that has nothing to do with it.

1:07:40Let me ask you, If you were, you know, in the context of this entire conversation we've been having, if you were to challenge people listening right now, parents, to do one thing daily over the next seven days to improve their relationship with their teen, what would be that thing? Delighting in them and their presence. Well, okay. So define delight because I actually recently have come, it's become something I'm aware of that most people don't even know what delight is. People know what joy is, what happiness is. but delight is a very specific word. Yeah. Every time I say it, it brings a smile to my face.

1:08:16Because it's just, to me, I equate it with unconditional love and acceptance. That you just enjoy them simply because they exist. That you're not trying to change them. You're not trying to make them a different version of themselves. You're just enjoying them. So it would be like, I remember when my kids were little, my daughter, she's 15 now. and she would, when she would sit, she would twirl her feet like helicopters, helicopter blades. And I just thought that was so cute. I'm like, oh, I love the way you twirl your feet. Or my son would sit on his feet and then those little toes would stick out and I'm like, boop, you know, I'm just delighting.

1:08:54Or things that they do now where the way my son sneezes, I think is the cutest thing. Or the way my daughter laughs, like just delighting in the things they do and delighting in their presence and just finding them just so wonderful to be around that you truly enjoy them as a person. And I feel like what's hard about doing that for a lot of us as parents, myself included, because when we're going through a rough spot with our teenagers, it's hard to do that. Well, I can't delight in them because they need to clean their room. Or I can't be delighting in them because they just cuss me out or roll their eyes or slammed the door or didn't do their chores?

1:09:37How can I delight in them when they can't even do what they're supposed to do? Well, but that's the thing about unconditional love. It's not based on conditions. Delighting and loving someone, regardless of how they show up, is a huge gift because a lot of us don't get it. And a lot of acceptance is conditional. And a lot of teenagers experience that. Friends accept me only when I dress a certain way or when I have the latest phone or when I make good grades or whatever it is, then I am accepted. But to be loved and just known and seen simply in all the messiness of how you show up is a huge gift.

1:10:15And I think that's what to me delighting is, is just enjoying their presence simply because they exist, not for anything they do or try to be. It's just because they exist. What do you think is the potential of somebody, so people listening, I'd love to hear what happens if you accept this challenge. What happens if the end of seven days, but what is some potential that could be the outcome? If seven days consecutively, you're delighting in this team that lives in your house, what could be the outcomes? So there's a few. One is you have a stronger relationship and bond where they tell you things and they're not sneaky about things.

1:10:53We love that. Right. Another one is they want to connect in ways that are significant and important. So they're, whether it's the more honesty, but they're doing things because if you feel like someone really loves you, enjoys you, and for just how you show up, then there's no need to be any different. There's no need to draw attention in negative ways because you know that you are accepted as you are. So a lot of those negative behaviors and those bids for attention that are very negative tend to decrease. Another one is you you just, I think overall, you just see a lot of less negative behavior because what I find is behavior tends to worsen because that teen doesn't feel heard.

1:11:41So they get louder in their behavior and their actions and their words. Well, you're not seeing me for who I am, or I'm not acceptable to you. So then the volume gets turned up. But if I'm just being loved and delighted in as who I am, I don't need to do all that stuff because I'm seeing for who I am. And so I find that those things improve. And so, yeah, I think the bottom line is you tend to see improvement in behavior, but the more important part is that there's an improvement in their relationship. Because when you have a relationship with someone that you feel like they care about you, there's no need to act a fool.

1:12:16There's no need to act up because they love you for who you are. and I hear that from parents from teachers that when you have a bond with that student with that kid you do see less behavioral issues because why would you act up with someone who you know likes you yeah you titled your book love the teen you have and I think it's a brilliant title but I'm wondering where did that come from because you've worked with like thousands of families So what made you choose that? Well, a big part of it was the, I had a post several years ago and I had several organizations reach out to me with that thing about, one of the posts was stop parenting fake children.

1:13:01No, no, no. Stop fighting fake battles. Stop parenting imaginary children. And it's that whole idea that why are you having a fight about the messy room? And why are you disagreeing about whether or not your kid is depressed? or if it's hormones. You're like, why are you doing all this fighting? Why are you fighting all these battles of things that are just not important that don't matter in the long run? And so for my, I wanted to move away from the what you should do and more of what you should do. I always feel like it's more powerful to move. What is the movement towards the positive area?

1:13:34And so love the team you have is really about the delight. It's just loving who's in front of you, parenting the child in front of you. and that brings about more connection and less conflict. So a lot of that is just from my own personal experiences in parenting my own teens and the teens that I work with and seeing how healing was possible in therapy with teenagers because they felt accepted where they were by me as their psychologist and then from their parents just loving them where they were even in the midst of all the messiness and how it really transformed them and how it transforms relationships.

1:14:08Another big part of it was a more personal reason is when I was a teenager and I was struggling with a single, my mom being a single mom, I was the youngest in the family. When I was struggling, my mom didn't fully understand what I was going through. She couldn't relate. She was going through her own stuff. And it led to a lot of rebellion in me and feeling like I wasn't heard. and I didn't want other teenagers and parents to go through what we went through. Our relationship has healed since. And when she heard about my book and I showed it to her, she's like, this is the book that I wish I had when I was parenting you.

1:14:48Oh, wow. And so it's huge. And so I'm like, should I be complimented or insulted? Was that me? Was that me? You're like, I needed to write the book for my mom to raise me. Right, right. But it was more that, yeah, all these countless families that I've seen struggle. This is the 20 years of the culmination of information and expertise and education that I've done that I want to be able to know, want parents and teenagers to know that loving your parent, loving your teenager is possible and that you can heal. And it's never too late because the book is for parents of tweens and teens. So nine to 19, the whole range.

1:15:26Seriously, start at nine. Anyone, if you're listening, Like, this is something that I love that you just said that. I'm sorry. Because, like, seriously, I wish that at nine, I started prepping for the change of parenting that how I needed to adapt rather than what then landed in my lap at 11. And then I was like, oh, not ready. Not ready for this. Let me say I hired you. For people listening, I interviewed you. And after I interview, I told my husband, like, I'm hiring her. We need to work with her. Well, and because there are some girls who hit puberty at nine and 10, they're hitting their period.

1:16:03They're getting the whole hormonal stuff. They're getting the mood changes. And they are in full-blown feels like teenage phase at an earlier and earlier phase. So I think it's really encompassing all that stuff. And I want to make sure that teens and parents don't feel like, well, I'm hated by my parents or that my teenager hates me. That every time I've worked with teenagers and they feel that way, they've always been proven wrong. It is not that they hate you, that there's this conflict that cannot be resolved. So that's the real, the beauty behind the title and the motivation is my struggles that I went through as well.

1:16:37And I don't want other parents to go through that. I want them to feel equipped so that we can change that and that could be different for them. So the book is super actionable. Like you, people can read it, actually put things into practice. So I want to go through like some rapid fire questions for people saying kind of, we're going to tease you a little. can get a taste of this. So let's talk about what's the go-to protocol for helping parents de-escalate an argument with their teen. So again, always go back to the curiosity. When a teenager is starting or continuing an argument with you, always get back to what is really driving this behavior.

1:17:14What's really happening behind this? And you speak to the need driving the behavior first. And then with that, when someone feels heard, you can de-escalate a situation. And that works across the board. So that's the best way. Just get curious and speak to the need rather than the behavior in front of you. What is the protocol for screen time without a fight? So if we want to end screen time without a fight, what can parents do? Start with parent control apps. Have the apps do the dirty work for you where you're basically, you have, if they have a phone, they have a computer, a tablet, any of those things, there should be parental apps and devices that control when they get on, when they get off, what they have access to, when it shuts off.

1:18:01And that way, that's the bottom line. That should be non-negotiable. That if you're going to have these devices, then it's going to be controlled by the apps that I have set in place. What is the protocol for a teen who just doesn't want to spend time with their family? Get curious again about what is driving that. Why are they not wanting to be around you? Is it because every time they're around you, you're asking, did you clean your room? Did you do your homework? Did you talk to your friend? Then really get curious about what is driving that? Why do they not want to be around you? Are you not fun to be around?

1:18:35Are you not interesting to be around? Nobody wants to hear that. No, but it's true, right? If every time they're around you, you're asking them about homework and stuff that they don't want to talk about. How was school? They don't want to talk. Be fun, be interesting and be enjoyable to be around as well too. And I think we forget that. We forget to have fun as parents, myself included. So it's not like a guilt trip. It's just being, getting curious about what, how your behavior might be driving your teen away. Because sometimes that could be the case that it just feels like you're in task mode and it can feel kind of monotonous.

1:19:10So then they would rather put their earbuds in or be by themselves. Yeah. Yeah. If we zoom out, like five years into the future, like parents are looking at the team they have five years in the future, what kind of relationship could they expect to have with them if they start to implement some of the things they heard today? Oh yeah. I mean, a big part of it is that your teen as say a young adult or as an older teenager will come to you for the hard stuff, because if they know they can come to you with the small things, they will come to you with the bigger things because they know you won't freak out, that you won't blame, that you won't over-personalize that you could truly be their friend.

1:19:47And a lot of our parents say, you know, wow, I don't want to be their little friend. Well, you don't have to be their little friend, but you need to be a confidant as they get older. You need to be a trusted source. They should be able to come to you for anything. And so that's a big thing that you'll see is that your teenager will share things. And I've had parents tell me this, like they tell me a lot of stuff and I wish they didn't. There's things that they're like, oh, mom, I did this, or, you know, I was this, or I snuck this and I meant to do. like they will come to you for the hard things and they will know that you're not going to be the parent that blows your lid and you freak out because you are seeking to understand and hear them.

1:20:23Yeah. So that's a big, big payoff for it. Well, thank you so much for sharing your expertise, for writing this fantastic book for parents and for taking your time to sit with us today. Thanks for having me. Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to 20 degrees hotter. Stay cool and save up to 50 % off custom window treatments during the 4th of July mega sale at blinds.com from outdoor shades to room darkening blinds finding the perfect fit is easy get free samples expert design help and professional measure and install services or diy with confidence and support every step of the way shop up to 50 off site-wide plus huge savings on doorbusters right now during the fourth of july mega sale at blinds.com