Are Barefoot Shoes Good For You? | Mark Sisson

26:46So we're now two years into this experience, many tens of thousands of customers who are like, oh my God, this is the greatest, you know, I had no idea I was messing my feet up this way until I put these on. Yeah. It's really the first time that I've worn barefoot shoes and actually said, these are, these are perfect in terms of the cushioning, in terms of the ground feel. You know, I'm, I'm currently working on a book on cellular healing and reversing biological age and a number of things. And in this book, one of the things I've discovered in writing this is that the first breakdown that happens in the body physiologically is cellular communication.

27:25And then, so like circadian rhythms is a great example of this. If you're getting too much blue light at night or not getting enough light in the morning, there's this sort of confusion by the body and there's this, sometimes this communication issue that happens also when you eat toxic food or lack nutrients and you lack nutrient signaling. So communication is key. It's key for relationships. You know, if you want to have a great marriage or a great break, you got to have great communication. I think about walking barefoot or wearing barefoot shoes in a very similar way. If you can't feel the ground, there's a lack of communication there.

27:56Your body, really from the feet up now, doesn't know what to do. And so now your feet aren't communicating with the ground. So then that's now going to disrupt your knees, your hips, your low back, all the way up through your entire spine. And so that's one of the reasons, just looking at the science or the philosophical idea behind why walking barefoot is so important, is that if your feet aren't right, your whole body's not going to be right. I mean, it's really the ground floor of the foundation. Absolutely. We talk about the entire kinetic chain, the posterior chain. And again, all of it, depending on this communication with Earth.

28:32Now, clearly, we can't go barefoot all the time. By the way, I would prefer everyone go barefoot all the time. So if we could get away with that and if we had the surfaces to walk on and we could do that, then I would be barefoot most of the time. But we've created this environment that is pavement and concrete and hardwood floors and marble floors and tile floors and all this other stuff, not to mention all the stuff we could be stepping in. So we need some kind of footwear. So my design was, okay, I want to come up with the optimal footwear, the optimal shoe that allows the foot to do what the foot wants to do, what the foot is designed to do without compromising the ground feel, without compromising the toe splay, and have it be a good-looking shoe because that was also important.

29:13Hey, what is your view on this? Because there are a lot of practitioners that have pushed for or are pushing for now things like orthotics. You know, I remember all the way back in college when I was doing triathlons, I started getting just terrible shin splints. And so, I mean, I tried orthotics. First, it might have helped by like 5 % or 10%. It never really helped fix the issue. But what's your view on orthotics? So let me tell you, I go back to my original adoption of the Nike, the thick Nike trainers. And I went to running from running 50 miles a week in Chuck Taylor's, because that's all we could do with those minimalist shoes, to 80, 90, 100, 110 miles a week in the thick training shoes.

29:58And I got horrible knee pain. I got chondromalacia. And that's from lack of ground feel. So I couldn't run for almost a season. And I was miserable walking around with a cane because of this. I go to see this guy, one of the first guys, Stephen Sabotnick in Hayward. Miracle cure. Made these hard acrylic orthotics for me that prevented overpronation of my feet and kept my feet always in a slight supinated position. Okay, my knee pain went away, and I ran for three more years until my hips went out. So this is a perfect example of not fixing the original issue, but putting a shim in one part of the kinetic chain and then having the weakest link be the next thing to break, which in my case was my hips, which ultimately ended my career.

30:51So my hip tendonitis was so bad that I went from qualifying for the U.S. Olympic trials in the marathon, 1980, to not being able to run. And as a result of that, I wound up learning how to cycle and swim a little bit, and that started my triathlon career. But it was the shoes that ultimately caused me all these problems. And it was the orthotics that just put a Band-Aid on one of the problems and then put it further up the kinetic chain. It's almost like taking a medication, right? You get one symptom, but over time, it's going to cause a whole other symptom. You're not getting to the root of the issue.

31:24You're just creating a symptom. So feet want to pronate. Our foot is this multi-planar device that lands in a certain way and then folds and rolls and supinates, pronates, and does all these amazing things that involve torque, that involve loading of certain coiled – the Achilles is one of the greatest loading mechanisms there is. And the people who are sprinters have this great ability that they don't use their calf muscles when they sprint. They're always coiled, right? They're always just landing and pushing and landing and pushing. So feet are the integral part of that. And if you start to mess with that structure by scrunching the big toe over and forcing the foot to kind of compensate for how it wants to pronate off the big toe.

32:16Well, when you can't prone it off the big toe, you sort of roll inward, and now your arch becomes a little bit flatter maybe. And because you've been wearing supportive shoes that don't allow your arch to even work because most of the footwear that we wear today has an arch support in it, your arch gets weaker and weaker. So you lose all of this. I know runners who run 50, 60 miles a week have the weakest foot muscles I've ever seen because they're always locked into this, encased in this supportive springy box-like trampoline. And yeah, their lungs are fit and their whatever, their quads are fit and whatever, but they're not functioning appropriately as a total human being using the entire kinetic chain.

33:00And then you put them in minimalist shoes, train them appropriately and go, oh my God, I found a whole new lease on life. My running improved immensely because now I finally learned how to run the way the foot is involved. The foot should be absorbing most of the impact of the landing. The foot muscles should be absorbing most of the impact of a landing of every time you stride if you're a midfoot strider. But if you're a heel striker, you wear these thick cushioned shoes and the shoes forgive this bad form and then you get injured. 50 % of runners get injured every year. Like that's worse than the NFL.

33:3450 % of all runners get injured every year. The so-called high-tech running shoes of the running boom of the last 50 haven't altered that one iota. Yeah. You know, one other thing that happens a lot of shoes and another reason why I love these is that there is such a dramatic heel to toe trial on a lot of these shoes today. And that's going to disengage your posterior chain. Yeah. As there were a lot of people that are walking around. And I always had this issue because I played soccer and I did triathlons and cycled a lot. So I became incredibly quiet. It's like everything I do, like my quads want to just take over for the rest of my body.

34:12And so I've really focused on in terms of in one of the reasons why I believe even doing CrossFit, I ended up herniating two of those discs in my back was my posterior chain was weak. So now I've spent the last 10 years since then really focusing on rehabbing, healing my posterior chain. But one of the last things to really click for me was realizing, oh, well, I'm wearing shoes where I'm at this massive disadvantage when, you know, you've shortened your calf muscle. Yeah. Right. Which which is is a strong component of that kinetic chain. And in shortening the calf muscle, you put more pressure on the Achilles and it wraps her and then the plantar fascia.

34:48And then because you squish the the big the big toe against the other toes, if you've been wearing regular shoes to train in, people talk about plantar fasciitis because it's an itis, it's an inflammation. But it's been rediagnosed in many cases as plantar fasciosis, a lack of blood flow as a result of scrunching that big toe over. and that plantar fascia area does not have much blood flow to begin with. And now you've cut it off even further. So many people who are trying to roll out plantar fascia problems or stretch them out, that's not the issue. The issue is let the big toe abduct away. Let that area give more blood flow to that area.

35:25Yeah. Yeah. One of the biggest things I've done, like if I have somebody with plantar fasciitis now, the first thing I have them do is get barefoot shoes. And then for a period of time, I typically have them down. I don't know if you know what Softwave is, but, you know, something to kind of help get blood flow and break up some of the, you know, that fashion. It is blood flow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. That's great. Well, again, you know, I think just everybody who's listening or watching this, I want to encourage you, consider going barefoot. The health benefits are numerous. I'm going to have Mark talk about that now.

35:56But I just want to say for me, it's been so good for my back. It's been so good for engaging my butt, my hamstrings, my entire posterior chain. I can tell my feet are much stronger, improved balance and stability. So there's loads and loads of benefits here of going barefoot. And listen, you don't have to be barefoot all the time if you don't want. If you're on a hospital floor for 12-hour shifts, you might need some cushioning a little bit there. I don't know. Mark probably has an opinion on that. But overall, I wear these probably 50 % of the time. You know, I wear them when I'm working out every time.

36:30It's just when I'm going around the house or running errands or doing a lot of stuff. But I mean, these are the shoes I wear most of the time. Yeah. You know, most people don't think twice about what they put on their feet, but they should. Conventional shoes with raised heels, squishing your toes and these thick soles can actually cause pain. Think things like plantar fasciitis, bunions and more. or in fact, 83 % of Americans suffer from chronic foot-related issues. And the biggest remedy I could ever recommend is Paluva. That's why I wear Paluva. Paluva is a five-toe, minimalist shoe that mimics barefoot movement, restoring natural alignment while looking stylish.

37:13With just enough cushioning for daily life and athletic training, Paluvas let each toe move independently the way God intended us to walk. When I wear mine, which is almost every day, I feel grounded, connected, and like I'm actively supporting my body's healing. Your feet are your foundation. Start taking care of them with Paloova shoes. Ready to take the first step towards better movement and foundational health? Visit Paloova.com and use the code AXE at checkout for 15 % off your first pair. Well, again, if you can't go barefoot, I would say wearing a five-toed shoe is the next best thing. to your point about in the hospital, people on their feet 12 hours a day, a lot of nurses are now wearing Paluvas and singing the praises.

37:57I've got a couple of surgeons who are doing and when you do surgery, you are standing in one place for hours, right? And I've got surgeons wearing a shoe. This is a little bit thicker version. It's a leather, it's called the Napa, the Paluva Napa. It's a five-toed shoe. Even though it looks like it's really thick, it's still only 12 millimeters total stack height, but just enough so that when you're standing on concrete all day long. So, so benefits of going barefoot. First of all, you know, from Chinese medicine, the big toe is wired directly to the brain. Okay. So I want to do an experiment with pre-dementia, you know, people, early, early onset dementia, barefoot and minimalist footwear to see if there's any connection there.

38:41That's, that's one of my goals. In the gym, you'll hear all the bodybuilders go Great toe, the big toe is called the great toe. Great toe, great ass. The great toe is directly connected to the glute. And so the reason guys and girls will train barefoot in the gym on leg day, they want that big toe to be abducted away to plant into the ground, to press it into the ground to fully activate the glute when they're doing squats or lunges or even deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts or whatever. So there's a tremendous benefit to engage. You've felt it, the increased engagement of muscles in the leg just by having the feet splay outward.

39:21Well, and think about how important this is for men because your glute is probably your largest muscle, and it's probably the most important for building testosterone. I mean, we know that building up, you know, these muscles is going to support testosterone. And so men, if you have low testosterone, going barefoot, especially on butt day and leg day, that's important for women. Very same thing. If you want to build healthier, a better backside again, you know, going barefoot is going to help. So, you know, you walk barefoot in your house and you walk up the stairs. Let's say you have some hardwood floors or whatever.

39:51And you walk up, notice that you step on the metatarsal head and your feet splay. That's probably the most your feet will ever splay outward is when you are stepping up onto a step. Or if you're sprinting down the beach at low tide on the wet sand, you go back and look at your footprints. That's the greatest amount of splay your toe. Your feet want to splay. They're designed to splay outward, not just to improve stability because that's a more stable platform, but to enhance the strength of each of the component parts of that foot. So every toe should be strong and independent on its own. Clearly, the great toe, the big toe, should be the most.

40:30Courtney Conley. Do you know Courtney? No. Okay. She's a chiropractor. She's probably, I think, one of the most knowledgeable people about feet and foot health and foot strength in the country. And she will tell you that one of the greater predictors of mortality in people over 65 is foot strength and particularly big toe strength. That ability to not trip and fall because of either balance and or the strength that you have in your foot to recover if you do trip. Because, you know, if you trip, you don't have to fall. It's not obligatory that you fall and break a wrist or break a hip. The number of times I trip hiking, for instance, over the years with a backpack on, but never fall.

41:11I catch myself. So I think the ability to engage that big toe, to build the foot strength so that your feet are stronger, they're more mobile, they're more resilient, your balance is better. You want to go barefoot to get that toe splay. I encourage people to do that test where you're maybe barefoot in your living room and close your eyes, cross your arms, and then stand on one foot and see how long you can hold that. Well, some of that's balance in the brain. Most of that is foot dexterity, the brain to recognize exactly how much off you are and then to be able to apply pressure to either the heel or the toe or the little toe and to be able to maintain that stability.

41:54It's a great I do that between sets when I'm in the gym. It's a it's a easy way to to recover and yet do another sort of form of exercise while you're waiting for the next set to come up. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I'm very, very thoughtful of now is not just exercise. You know, when I was in my 20s and even a good part of my 30s, I was I was much more thoughtful about how do I look good? I mean, you know, and feel good. But overall, I wanted to feel good in the short term. I wasn't thinking about as much, hey, in my 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s, and how can I be at my height of my, you know, be very fit and active during those times.

42:36And so a lot of times, you know, today people have maybe one form of exercise they do and they only focus on that. It might just be weight training. It might just be running. But I think having a real sense now about things like stability, right, balance, like you're talking about, is just so important. When I think about the people that I know that are the most fit in their 70s, 80s, and 90s, those people, there's a couple things in mind. One, they tend to walk a lot. And a lot of times they hike. They do a lot of uphill and downhill. It's the best. And then the next thing is sometimes I'll see these guys at the gym.

43:11I remember I walked up to this guy. He's actually a doctor. He was in his 70s. And he gets on one of those kind of half balls in the gym, the BOSU balls. And he's always doing appropriate balance. stuff. And, and he says, this is what keeps me from injury. It's what's, you know, he, he, he attested that as being a big part of him being so fit, you know, at that, at that point in life. Yeah. I mean, one of my, um, I used to have a slack line in my backyard in Malibu. I'm trying to figure out where to put it in my house in Franklin right now, but a slack line is a great way to develop that sort of balance.

43:43Um, and it becomes fine motor skills because a slack line isn't about, isn't about, you know, like a trap, a tightrope walking kind of balance with a slack line, everything happens below the waist and you're trying to bring the line back underneath you. You're not trying to stand on top of a metal pipe or something like that. So slack lining is a great way to do that. Again, those, those, those one leg exercises, the balance exercises, but I mean, so, so many of the, of the little things that we used to not think were valuable, like planks or whatever. They're incredibly valuable. And so I throw, we do a lot of these mix and match a lot of these different workouts these days.

44:21Like I, like part of one of my other routines in between sets at the gym is just a dead hang from a pipe, from a, you know, from a, from a bar. Cause grip strength is another way of another metric for longevity. And as I said, foot strength and grip strength, your hands and feet. So hands, I mean, feet are just hands that we developed in a different way, but many people who don't have, this is the, I mean, it's the best example. People who don't have arms use their feet with very much dexterity. They can do lots of things with their toes. They just, we, most of us never have that occasion to do that.

45:00And so we wrap them up in these attractive, pointy Italian fashion wear, you know, and, and, and try to attract the opposite sex and, and, and use that as a means of passing the genes along to the next generation, but we evolved surviving as a result of using that contact that we have with the ground as the primary focus. Like everything we do, whether you walk or sprint or jump or dance or get out of a chair or get out of a sofa or get up off your desk, everything you do starts with contact with the ground. And you should, why you would not optimize that? Like athletes, I just, I get, I'm blown away by how little attention world-class athletes and, you know, NBA players, NFL players, baseball players don't pay attention to their foot health and their foot strength.

45:47Can I tell you one of the next big things I think we're going to see in pro sports in the future is customized shoes for athletes and they're going to be barefoot. I mean, they're actually going to be customized for the individual in that way. Yeah. No, I mean, so you mentioned two things that I find fascinating. So you played soccer and you did triathlons. So a soccer cleat wants to mold your foot into a bat. so you can strike the ball. For whatever reason, a cycling cleat wants to do the same thing. Cycling cleats are some of the most uncomfortable shoes you'll ever wear. Certainly going back to the days of you and I competing in triathlons, me even before you.

46:27And I remember those days when I would get back from a hundred. So you know the term, the brick, right? All right. So I coined that phrase. I don't know if you know that. Yeah. So if you go back through history, so I used to coach a professional triathlon team in the late mid to late eighties. And I would have him do a brick every week. And it was a hundred mile run, sorry, a hundred mile ride followed by a 10 mile run. That's the original brick. And, um, but we would do these rides and I'd get off the bike and I could not feel my feet after a hundred miles. And then I'd put on running shoes and be expected to, you know, hit the ground, literally running and go do 10 miles.

46:59So, um, I I've always been fascinated by whoever it was that said a cycling foot is much more efficient when you scrunch it all together, bind it all together, wrap it tight, and then apply it to a cleat and start applying to work. Well, can I tell you what's interesting is, one, even though that's the way it's been done, I don't know that that is actually the best way. Now, maybe with striking a ball because that's a little bit unorthodox in terms of a movement, we're not going to do that often. But I will say there's no doubt that if you are wearing something that's more barefoot, you should be able to cut laterally better.

47:35Yes. And the other thing I would say is the most common, from what I remember, the most common injury in soccer players is hamstring tears. Why is that? Well, you get so quad dominant that now your hamstrings are weak. And so they're just, you know, there's such an imbalance there. It's easy to tear. Well, and you get quad dominant. Great point. You get quad dominant because you've bypassed 30 % of the forces generated from running or jumping should be created or absorbed by the muscles in the feet. 30 % of that should start and be allocated to stronger foot muscles, whether it's, again, a strong arch, a plantar fascia that's been coiled and pushed off, the ankle rolling a little bit.

48:19And what do we do? We tape those feet up. We tape the shoes up and we wear these thick, restricted things. And then all of that force now has to begin, has to emanate from the ankles up. And that's how we become that quad dominant. If we were able to, this is one of the things I've said for a long time, but if we were able to retrain the feet and develop a wide, flatter, certainly stiff cleat for athletes like that, that could absorb some of that initial shock, we would offset. We wouldn't tear the ACL because of that. We wouldn't pop the Achilles because the entire foot was taped up. And the first point of release was where the calf and the Achilles come together.

49:02It totally makes sense to me. And yet that's what's happening. And yet we're back into these trainers that are 30 years behind the scene or 35 years behind as they tape their athletes up. Yeah. You wrote a book here. It's called Born to Walk. Yeah. So I remember reading Born to Run years ago. You know, and and I think that it's so funny because if I would have heard this in my 20s or 30s or my 20s, I would have thought, yeah, you know, waste of time, waste of time. Or that's not that exciting. Right. But the reality is, is that when we go and look at these blue zones and we and now working with people that are, you know, and really studying longevity, there's no doubt that walking is one of the optimal things you can do.

49:46And you can mix it up. You could wear a weighted vest. You can do hiking, of course, up and down. I mean, it's amazing. If you go up and down some pretty steep stuff, what an amazing work that is. It's really – Well, not only is it – you're right. So, it's good cardiovascular work. It's good muscular work. And if you do it in minimalist footwear, it's also amazing foot strength work because every step you take on a hike lands you in a different position. Now, if you're running and you're landing in a different position, unless you're really well-trained – It's a gamble. But if you're walking, again, if you're walking, as I say, by the time your foot lands, the brain already knows.

50:22I already feel this rock. I already know I should slide to the outside. I should roll the ankle a little bit. I already know how deeply to bend my knee. And so one of my favorite workouts to do, I'm going to the south of France for July and August. I do every year. I do a lot of hiking there. One of the reasons I designed this shoe was to enable me to walk 10 to 12 miles a day in the south of France because that's sort of our yearly pilgrimage. And I hike until I find a meadow of some 200 yards. Then I jog or I run or I sprint with good form. And then I regain, resume my hiking. And so it's a combination of hiking and a little bit of running and put it together.

51:04And I think it's the ideal workout. It's what we used to call it fart lick in the old days, right? Speed play. Oh, yeah. Speed play. But it's an incredible workout. I'm not running. I'm not running metronomically seven-minute miles. It doesn't appeal to me anymore. And there's no goal for me to do that. Why would I do that? I'm not, again, horrible way to lose weight. I don't need to lose weight. I don't want to lose weight. It's catabolic to run that often, that far. Yeah, if you want to run once a week, fine. But most people, the only people who should be running are ectomorphs with great lung capacity who are genetically gifted with their VO2 max and who have a high pain tolerance.

51:42Those are the only people who should be running. And they shouldn't even be running, but if they want to compete, then let them compete. But our ancestors did not run. The premise of Born to Run, Christopher McDougall's book that you read and that I read, it was a great book. The premise was that we evolved as persistence hunters, right? But a persistence hunt isn't two hours of seven-minute miles. Yeah, it's not at all. Chasing a gazelle down every day. No, a persistence hunt is crouching and stalking and jogging and sprinting and hiding and tracking for two hours until the beast is overwhelmed.

52:15And we have this cooling system, this evaporative cooling system, our sweat glands, enable us to go up and jab a spear in it, which we – that's our weapon. and then not do it every day, you know, every once in a week, because you didn't do a persistence hunt every day. So my whole premise here is lots of walking, walk, walk, walk, walk, lifting heavy things. And our ancestors lifted rocks and stones and they built shelters and they carried babies and they carried carcasses and they climbed trees, lifting heavy things. And then sprinting once in a while, our ancestors had to sprint for their lives once in a while, not every day, but once in a while, those, those component, uh, parts allowed the men to go out and do a persistent hunt once a week, once every four days, whatever it was.

53:03Um, and do you think that, that our ancestors on a, on a, after they'd had a big day of hunting or like, well, we don't have a hunt today. Let's go out for an easy 10 milers. It was completely antithetical to help. It was a waste of calories. Well, you know, even if we go back even a hundred years ago, when, uh, most jobs, I think maybe it's even 200 years ago, but 50 % of jobs were agriculture-related. And you had blacksmiths and everything else. And it's like we were spending so much time outside. Yes. So much time. In the sun. Barefoot. In the sun. Fresh air. Very, very. In the soil. You know, the germ theory of all of that, right?

53:39Exactly. And so much of sickness today is just living out of tune with nature. Yeah. You know, it's just living out of tune. I mean, you know, I believe that in order to optimize health, one of the things that I've taught is it's all about connection. And one of those things is on this show, we talk about physical, mental, spiritual. One is connection to God. The other is connection and love of other people, having those relationships. And then it's really living in tune and connection with the earth when the sun goes up, when it goes down, just living in tune with nature. And so that's one of the reasons I've been such a big fan of your work and all the things you've done.

54:10I know that you're the founder of Primal Kitchen and some amazing, amazing food products. And then now with Paluva, again, and so much of this, one of the things that I read your newsletter back and probably started and probably right when you, I don't know when you started. 2006. I was going to say 2008 is when I started reading it. So I've been reading it for a long time and you're putting out great content. But a lot of it is living in tune, you know, eating things in their most natural form possible, walking in your most natural form possible. And I love that you've done this with this new shoe brand, Paluva.

54:44And it's just awesome. So I want to encourage everybody to go out and check out these shoes. And they're stylish. That's another thing. You know, I love we've got some leather here. We've got some, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that. So this is a loafer. This is the Miami loafer. This is a casual shoe. And then the nicest slip on. That's great. Thank you. This is our ATR. This is the terrain shoe. This is a trekking shoe. I have a lot of people trekking in this, a lot of people rucking in this, a lot of people who are training for trail running. And by the way, most trail runners don't run.

55:15They just hike fast. You know that, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, the fast ones do, but most people just hike fast. Perfect shoe for that. It's got an increased tread on it. We just launched – this is my own personal one. We just launched a golf shoe. Wow, really? It's going to crush. Yeah. I mean, you know, some of the top golfers who have always felt like they need the ground feel. Yeah. Not had that with the shoes that they have. I have 600. Because I wear test all my shoes, I've already worn some of this off just walking on concrete and pavement and stuff like a lot. But it's an amazing shoe.

55:48So we are so excited about about the possibility of changing the way the world thinks about foot health, foot strength and how that integrates with the entire again, with the entire physical body, the kinetic chain, hormonal systems, all of this. It all it all starts with the feet. Wow. It's so powerful. Well, again, I'm a huge fan here and I wear these constantly all the time. And again, I think for so many of you, you'd be blown away at just the benefits of just wearing barefoot shoes 50 % of the time and during your workouts and wearing these types of shoes. And as I mentioned, this is the best brand out there in terms of the foam is perfect.

56:27The fit is perfect. Just the way you've done it is just so fantastic, Mark. Thank you. I appreciate that. And what I'll tell people is I think this is the most comfortable shoe you've ever worn. Some people – It takes about two weeks, I think, to fully adapt. Yeah. But overall – Yeah. Within a couple of days you go, oh my God, like I can't believe like, like how, how, how dexterous my toes are and how great this feels. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. And especially if you've got chondromycinol patella, if you have plantar fasciitis, if you have back pain, if you have knee pain, if you need to rehab your ankles, it's great for that.

56:59But also it's great to prevent all those things for longevity, for your health span. So I want to encourage you guys go and check out Paluva here by Marxist. And these shoes are amazing. And Hey, we have a deal. We have a deal. Should we talk about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. No. So we have a 15 % off introductory deal for any of your viewers, listeners. And it's Axe. Code Axe. Code Axe. And so go to Pelluva.com. Okay, that's P-E-L-U-V-A.com. Use the code Axe, that's A-X-E, and 15 % off. So, Mark, that's so kind of you to do that. No, it's my pleasure. I want the world to experience this.

57:32Yeah, yeah, I do as well. We're so grateful for you, for everybody who subscribed to the show, who shares this podcast out there. And again, everybody I bring on here, like Mark, it's because I want you to take your health to the next level. No matter what you're doing, I want you to prevent the injuries. I want you to be 90 years old, playing with your grandkids, bringing them to Disney World or rucking and hiking here, you know, traveling through Europe or France like Mark here is able to do. And so anyway, just thanks so much for watching, everybody. And hey, if you're watching on YouTube, what was the biggest piece of advice that Mark shared today or that piece of wisdom that you thought, wow, I didn't know that?

58:10And have you worn barefoot shoes before? Have you worn palovas? Hey, we'd love to hear from you on YouTube in the comment section there as well. Hey, thanks so much for watching. We'll see you on the next episode.

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