How Worship Saved His Life (After Hitting Rock Bottom) | Michael W. Smith

24:46I was so exhausted and I felt like Abba was laying on the floor with me with his arm around me. He says, I got you. It's going to be okay. And I haven't been the same since that night. I was tempted the next day. I mean, I went, whoa, what was that? And I was sort of tempted to go out and party with my buddies, but then there was something that was, something was I couldn't shake what happened that night. And that next day I was going to my publishing you come here i'm trying to write songs about jesus and and party and it doesn't quite work so all the songs were awful and this guy randy cox came up to me says hey because i kept saying lord i need a way out i need a that was amazing give me some friends do something yeah and randy says hey there's this i want to talk to you about something there's this group called higher ground and they're looking for a piano player i said i'll take the job he said well you don't want to meet him no i'll take the job are you sure you don't want to meet him no i'll take the job because i felt like that was my anchor yeah and so i joined this group called higher ground smoked my last cigarette on the way to the van and that was that was i think it was new year's eve of 79 and those guys nurtured me back to health spiritually for eight months and then that following month i got my first songwriting contract i met a girl named amy grant started writing songs for amy and then finally got my own record deal.

26:11I mean, the list goes on, but I mean, the story goes on, but that's, it was rock bottom and I got rescued. Wow. Praise God. Yeah. What an amazing story. You know, I had a, not to that degree, but I did when I was in college, have a couple of years really turned away from God and then had a similar experience of just feeling this emptiness in this hole and spending a few hours, like over a weekend, And actually the whole weekend just locked myself in my room. And I remember praying a prayer. I said, God, because one of the things I felt like was I didn't have any really true deep friends. I mean, I went in my hometown, but moved off to college and just got around the wrong group.

26:50And I remember praying, God, would you just send a flood of Christian godly men into my life? Yeah. And honestly, since then, and God is still doing it. I mean, I'm like, I prayed that prayer and it's like 30 years. Like, it just keeps doing it. Yeah. You know, and I found that that is the thing that helped change me the most. is like if my single biggest life lesson is probably you become who you spend time with. I agree. You know, and it's just like, wow. And so that has been something I'm just, I still do today. I'm constantly thinking, who am I spending time with? Yeah. Being really proactive with that.

27:17And I look back at my parents, they were conscious of this too. But, you know, I was always like, well, why can't I hang out with this person or go over this person's house? And I mean, thank God for, you know, great parents. Yeah. So you mentioned Amy Grant. Who are some people that have been sort of iron, like sharpens iron for you? Maybe other musicians in the industry for, again, for the past 30 or so years. Well, I have to go back to Don Finto again. I mean, I've done a lot of life with Don. I always say the three people changed. I think, I don't know if I already said this, but the three people who, the three men that really changed my life was my dad, Billy Graham.

27:56He was very close to Billy. um and he poured his life into me especially you know from 94 on you know till he went to heaven and you know i think he maybe just i don't know he just loved me for some reason and we started doing youth nights together and i did a lot of crusades with him but you know he has five kids i've got five kids he's on the road i'm on the road yeah we had a lot of things in common you know so yeah finto my dad billy um but you know just throughout the years just my bandmates my who I'm on the road with, you know, I can, I can establish a pretty quick relationship. If I'm, if I'm hanging out with these people on a bus all the time, you start to kind of like, you're not going to isolate yourself.

28:39I mean, sometimes you got to go to the back of the bus to, to, to recalibrate, you know, from time to time, but no, you get to know these guys and you get to know about their families and you get to have these deep conversations at night on a bus. We get into this whole thing about what do you think about that? And what do you think about that? And we tried to avoid politics, but it would come up from time to time. But more a thing about how to walk this thing out. You know, how do we finish strong? How do we not fall off the cliff? And then I would go back to my prayer group, you know, of all the times that we've been together and all the tough stuff that we've gone through, you know, just like the loss of life.

29:17You know, we had a person who lost his wife in our prayer group. That was awful, you know. Yeah. You know, that draws us all together. And so whenever there's an issue where there's a big thread text where they were the what do we call the prayer warriors or whatever we're called? You know, there's a thread and I get something from that thread every other day. Yeah. So I know what's going on and pretty much in everybody's life in our prayer group. And it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. You know, there's there's no doubt for me. Again, talking about some of these things we've talked about, I think I mean, church, of course, has been such a blessing and changed me.

29:53But I think there's something about growth groups or these sort of things that you're talking about, these longstanding groups that change you even more. Because I think there's something about we can sit in church and it is something everyone should be doing. Again, I'm so blessed by hearing an amazing sermon and teaching, spending time in praise and worship. There's also something about doing life with people. You know, I think like the way that I've learned, I think the Bible proves this out with talking so much about discipleship. But like watching the way other people treat their wives, raise their kids.

30:23You know, I've got two daughters now and I've got some other couples. I don't know if you know Michael Hyatt. You know, Mike's got five daughters. I remember when I first found out I was going to have a daughter, I went to Michael and just said, hey, you know. One of the things he told me, and I thought it was so interesting, he said, you're going to love having daughters. He said, the boys always run off and the girls always stay around and are going to take care of you and you're going to love it. But I've been so blessed by it. I think any growth I've had has been so much around having amazing mentors and people and watching.

30:48So there was a doctor that I mentored under. mentored under and he would let me this is when i was in florida in school i would go stay at his house one night a week and then i would work as a nutritionist in his clinic but i would stay there and be able to see how he interacted with his kids in the morning so his kids would wake up and you know big hugs he'd connect with the family and then they'd literally come up and they would take green shots of green juice teaspoon of fish oil you know i'll take their supplements do breakfast together kisses but for me it was it was just as i mean it was maybe more powerful than anything just saying, oh, this is how you do it.

31:19That's how you do it. Yeah. Good. Yeah. No, it's good. I mean, actually speak louder than words. You know, and I remember Deb and I would have a lot of these talks about our, you know, our five kids and prayed for them or they're going to be okay. And we would go, we can preach at them all day, but they're watching what we do. Yeah. They're watching how we are interacting. You know, they're watching how we treat people, you know. So, yeah. So that sounds like a great thing that you had to watch him do life with his family. And we've always been family. We're big, big, big family people. I mean, all our kids fought and did all that stuff growing up.

32:01They had their little whatever. But all our kids actually really love each other. Oh, wow. And now we have 20 grandkids. Oh, my goodness. I thought we were holding an 18. We're at 20. And the grandkids love each other. You know, so there's just really cool thing happening. You know, we just keep praying, oh, God, just hedge of protection because the world's, you know, much of the world's a bad place, you know. And so, so far, by the grace of God, they're staying on point, which is great. That's so great. Yeah. So one of the things that I, Jordan Rubin and I have talked about this quite often. We said, hey, when do you get your best ideas?

32:39and i and i and you know and i'm i write a lot of articles and books and create a good amount of content and and so does jordan you'll create supplement formulas and all kinds of things and both of us have said i mean i'm talking about 90 of the time our best ideas have come and and part of me feels like i'm excited to share this also part of me feels bad about maybe i shouldn't be doing it at this time but it's when we're at church doing praise and worship i mean i literally it's almost like i'm spending half of praise and worship like jesse's like get off your found. I'm like, I will, but I've got this amazing idea that I need to type out right now.

33:13And same thing, like Jordan and I at points have gone to certain churches or different things together. And I'm looking across the thing and I see them like that. So there is just something that, again, when we're spending time praising God and sort of in the presence, I just feel like these ideas just flow. And it's been really amazing. And so that's one thing that, again, I love about your music. I love about just spending time in praise and worship. And I know it's different for everybody. I was listening to this thing with Elon Musk and he said his first thing is he wakes up in the morning.

33:44The first thing he does is get in the shower and just thinks for an hour and come up with all his ideas. And sings. Well, I don't know if he sings or not. No, this is totally different. No, he just does it in the shower. I don't think he sings. I think he does it then. But I'm curious for you, how about you? Again, you've created so many amazing songs. What sort of environment do you need to get into in order to write your best music when you're looking back well i think i mean you obviously need you know i don't have very many great ideas when you're trying to carry the the weight of the world on your shoulders and you're thinking about this and you're thinking about oh everything's negative and yeah you've got to be positive um you know i this about just my my personal opinion and i and i can't tell you exactly why i got in these places you know i remember i wrote agnus day you know i was in my basement in 1990 and it's this worship song it's been i love it it's resurfaced yeah all these kids thinks it's a new song and it's 36 years old you know it's whatever but i was in my basement just having this quiet time just quiet i put my hands on the piano i felt like i was sort of i was just having jesus time honestly thanking him and i just put my hands on the keyboard and i started playing this melody and i wrote this in two minutes it just came out and i'm weeping at my keyboard i'm just weeping in my basement playing the song um so i think i believe that he gave me the melody he gave me the song yeah why did he give it to me then and not in 88 or 95 i have no idea yeah I think there's so much that God wants to reveal to us, like some really deep, deep, deep stuff that is earth-shattering.

35:37But I think he only gives it to the deep people. Yeah. The quiet place, the place of really abiding in this sort of—it's like a consciousness kind of thing. It's not weird. Yeah, yeah. Just being in that thing of being in the deep place and totally, totally being surrendered to him, like on full scale. Yeah. I think when you abide on a deep, deep level, I personally think he gives otherworldly ideas to creative people. It's so powerful. To you, to me. I just totally believe that. Yeah. I think if I was running and gunning all the time and trying to put out the fires and just sort of in this sort of nonstop chaos of just trying to keep life together, I don't think I'd be very productive.

36:30Yeah. You know, I wouldn't be very happy. But there's this peace, you know, there's this thing of going, I say it every day, how do I do it? How do I do it? How do I abide in you? living in America and all the things that come with my job. You know, how do I sort of, you know, sort of, yes, I got to take care of this and that's a responsibility, but how to sort of stay in this lane of just keeping my mind stayed on you? He said, if you keep your mind stayed on him, he'll keep you in perfect peace. That's what it says. So I think he wants to reveal some pretty amazing stuff to deep people and I want to be among the deep people.

37:12Yeah. Yeah. And I think first, I've loved everything you said. This is my favorite thing, though. I think that there's something about being able to, and we see Jesus did this, right? He woke up early in the morning. He went just to a quiet place to pray. Yeah. And I see this today. I see so many people struggling with health issues. I mean, again, I think that I mean, it's maybe more than half. I mean, health issues are due to an emotional state of in foods big. But I do think just this overwhelm of busyness of people have their schedule packed from the second they wake up to go to bed and through the weekend.

37:44It's just so many things. And that doesn't leave room to go deep. Right. We're going to your point. Very, very wide. We have social media today. You have maybe 500 friends on there. But how many of like versus you'd much better going deep with five people. I agree. And so I do, I do love that. And I think of anytime I've had inspiration, anytime I've had a meaningful idea, it's come from this time of praise and worship or there's just a lone quiet time in creating space. You know, I've got a two-year-old and six-year-old at home with my six-year-old. Chelsea and I started saying that she's like, I'm bored.

38:16We're like, good. It's good to, you know, we're like, it's good to be bored, honey. This is where you can think and be creative. And then, you know, you guys are busy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember. So busy. So fun. That's one of the things we're trying to do now is, and Chelsea and I are constantly reminding each other of like, you know, our two-year-old is now saying words more correctly. We liked it better when she wasn't because it's so darn cute. Right. And just being able to just kind of, yeah, cherish this time when they just really want to just connect with you every second of the day.

38:49Yeah. And it's so precious. And now you're getting to do this with 20 grandkids. 20 grandkids. Yeah. I was at our farm last night, and I watched one of my guys, how old's Gabriel? He's eight. Get baptized last night. Oh, wow. In a horse trough. Yeah. We decided not to do the Harpeth River. And we had like 30, 40, 50 people out there. And it was just, and Deb had just gotten back from Indiana helping Emily, the little ones who doesn't live here. until we raced out there and just to watch your grandchild get baptized. I ended up baptizing two of my kids. It just doesn't get old. I love it. That's so good.

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40:20If you want to check it out and grab one before they're gone, just go to mybloodwork.com now. You talked about the three people that really mentored you and poured into your life. Yeah. And I want to ask you the same question for each of them. Let's start with your dad. Yeah. What is the single biggest thing you learned from him or the best piece of advice he ever gave you? I can't really, I mean, I probably could sit here and recollect all the things he said to me, but he spent time with me. Yeah. He was my baseball coach. Every season, somehow he graduated to the next league and somehow he had found his way into that league to be my baseball coach.

41:00Because I wanted to be a professional baseball player. And I was obviously built for it, but I had a lot of natural ability. My skills were good. And I learned that from my dad. because he was a great ball player, a minor league ball player. Yeah, he threw baseball with me every single day. Wow. Every single day. If it weren't at the ball field, we were out on the sidewalk in front of our house. So he just spent time with me all the time. Yeah, so good. And then when the baseball thing didn't happen, which I thought, oh my gosh, my dad's going to be so disappointed because I made the All-Stars every year.

41:31And at 15, I didn't make the All-Stars. And that's when I felt like God wanted me to be in music. Well, then my dad becomes my quote-unquote PR agent, telling everybody how great I was all the time, which was embarrassing. Even at 18, he would say, oh, my dad, dad, dad, you don't have to, you don't have to do that. Yeah. And he would say the craziest things, just like he was, he just, he just thought I hung them in. My mom and dad were more popular than I. I just, they, but when I would get recognized all the time in the store, I'd say somebody would, I felt like I was being stalked by somebody.

42:04I just, they want my autograph, you know. For 20 years, this happened. And my mom and dad ended up moving to Nashville. I get recognized and they go, you're Michael, maybe soon. I went, yeah, it's nice to meet you. And she's, oh, we love your mom and dad. And they would sit there for 10 minutes talking about my mom and dad. So to back up and just say, yeah, my dad spent time with me. I watched him and I treated people and he thought I hung the moon. Billy, to be able to co-labor with him on that first youth night, which was in Cleveland, Ohio in 1994. There was 80 ,000 kids in Cleveland Stadium.

42:45And to be able to, it was me and DC Talk. DC Talk played, I played. And for me to be able to introduce Billy for the first youth night, which that's a whole other story I've written about that in my latest book. There was a lot of hesitation of we're going to get rid of the choir, we're going to have a rock concert. and I think Billy's team was not looked on favorably at all. But Billy thought we got to reach the next generation. But to introduce him, to watch him give one, I think one of the best messages I've ever heard him give. And watch 10 ,000 kids come down and accept Christ. It's a top five for me.

43:27And to be able to do that two or three times a year, in 95 and 96, all through the next 10, 11, 12 years. What did you learn from Billy? What was the single biggest thing you thought? He was on point, man. I'm telling you what. I mean, we talked about family. We didn't know about the kids. But, man, it was all just about sharing the gospel. Yeah. I mean, it was just all about sharing Jesus with the world. It was just sort of singular focus of this is deep. Pretty much. And we would expand and we'd think, oh, yeah, we're talking about Bono because Bono came up. He's a friend of mine. and he came up and visited.

44:02And I knew the bushes. He obviously knew the bushes. And so we'd talk a little bit about that. And then he would pray for me. When he couldn't get out of his house, obviously being fragile, so I would just go up and take my piano and I would just play his favorite hymns. And he would pray over me. I'd go, poof. This is like Billy Graham's laying hands on me. And then the last two times I went, he didn't have the energy but they put headphones on and i would play his favorite hymns and he would i could hear him humming along with me and then he couldn't pray for me so i'm laying hands on billy i'm praying for billy it's like wow it's like uh and it's it's just it was rich just rich but he knew and i say this with all humility he knew that there was an amazing call of God on my life.

44:59Yeah. So I think he was just, every time we sort of get back on point of what I'm called to do, you know, was to share the gospel through my music. And we talk about how powerful music was. You know, he knew that, you know, that's why he did the rock concert or whatever he is, that's what he called it. Because we're going to pull the kids in and we got their attention. They all came because of maybe me and DC talk and maybe later on in the years when I started getting older and maybe another younger man. But they came, and then he got them. Yeah. Catching fish. Yeah, yeah. And draw them in, and then he gives the message, and they respond to it.

45:35So, and then Finto, man, just edifying me nonstop. And memorizing scripture together. Great story with Don. We walked Radnor Lake for years and years and years. We'd walk it every week. And we never stopped. We'd just walk, walk, walk, and we'd talk, and we'd pray. and then the one time I think it was the second or third time we'd ever done it we sat on a bench and he said Michael and then he started quoting something it's almost like what's he doing? I'm going oh my gosh he is the imaged invisible God the firstborn among all creation by him all things were created things in heaven and on earth invisible and indivisible and I'm going oh my gosh he's quoting Colossians he quoted the whole book by memory like he wrote it to me wow the whole book And I went, wow.

46:29I was blown away. And I went, I've got to learn how to do that. So I went home that night and stayed up until 3 o 'clock in the morning, and I memorized Colossians 1, 9 through 16. Wow. And then I memorized Psalm 138. And I memorized Psalm 139. I memorized Romans 8. And I just started memorizing Scripture. And I would walk. And Dom and I would go to Mount Leconte, and we'd walk. I can quote back and forth trying to memorize Psalm 139. And then I use Psalm 139. I can still quote it. I can still quote the whole thing for you. And I used to do it on stage. Quote Psalm 139. It's powerful. To the point at one point, there was somebody, a friend of mine that was, you know, girlfriend got pregnant and was going to abort the child.

47:19And he was there and heard me quote Psalm 139. and went back to his girlfriend and said, we can't abort this child. So they got married and had the child and named their son after my son, Ryan. So it's just all the backstories of, Oh, here's what they Finto did. Here's what Billy did. Here's what my dad did. But it's all sort of the overflow of just the, how they poured into my life. And it's, and it's, and it's fruitful. Yeah. It becomes fruit. And you go, gosh, I'm doing this stuff today because of what these three men did in my life. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. That's so incredible. Yeah. I was just such a testament to just the power, again, discipleship, right?

48:04Discipleship. And I think that, you know, so funny because I've done, my biggest focus, of course, I've been in the health space. The other thing, though, I've spent some time sort of coaching and mentoring other doctors and people in the health space. But one of the things that I've heard pretty frequently from people is some people saying, oh, I want a mentor, but I don't have one or know where to get one. And I'll tell you a quick story here. So when I first moved to Nashville, I heard Dave Ramsey on the radio. And I thought, I want to do what he does. And so I started a health radio show modeled after Dave where people would call in and I would answer their health questions.

48:42And I went up to Dave once. I said, Dave, and I didn't know Dave that well, but I just met him. I said, hey, would you mentor me? And he's like, Josh, I'm so honored that you asked, but no, I don't have the time. I said, okay, you know. But then I was really prayerful. I was like, God, I said, I just really feel like I need somebody that's ahead of me, that can really mentor me and lead me. And it was so crazy. A few months later, I met Jordan Rubin. And Jordan Rubin's not a lot of old. I mean, he's probably about seven years older than I am. And they're just amazing. I just kept praying. And some people said no, but Jordan was the right person.

49:16Yeah. Such a perfect relationship for me to be able to just learn from him and all the amazing things he's done. And so God's so faithful. But any advice for people who are saying to themselves, hey, I want to have some sort of mentor be discipled in some way, the best way to get that or pursue that? You know what? I honestly think everybody needs a mentor. And I know that's easier said than done. I mean, it was natural for me. belmont church and yeah don married us and we connected it was just a natural connection but i think there's somebody out there honestly yeah and i think this is really interesting you you asked me this question because i've done and i've talked about this for a long time because i feel like you know don he's like a father to the city yeah he's a father and i have felt like for quite some time that part of my calling is to father and i don't say oh i'm too young i'm too young to father you know i'm still learning you know and i don't think i'm definitely still learning but i think part of my role is to is to mentor and how i do that who i do that with i just know that i have a lot of good stuff to share and that's the bad and the good the good choices and the not so good choices.

50:35And I'm having these young musicians whose families are struggling and they're in the quote unquote Christian music business, even the country world going, how'd you do it? How'd you survive success? How is it that you're married to the same woman for almost 45 years? So they're asking me, so gosh, why would I not take the time and walk people through some of that so we've started a little thing we did our first little meeting about mentoring young couples we had it at our house last month dom was there it's amazing it's amazing it was amazing first meeting him so i think it's beginning to happen you know but saying that you know if you don't have a mentor that you just gotta then ask god to show you who that is yeah and i think he will you know yeah again the internet is a is a dangerous thing but there's so much great stuff you know this show hello you know but just uh you know deb's always sending me little things what did you hear this guy this guy from scotland oh it's incredible and so there's these there's these podcasts and little things that you can find snippets of or that are like you can kind of get mentored by these guys a little bit you might not even know them yeah you know so i think that's a good thing yeah uh if you don't have a don finto but I think God can give you a Finto.

52:02Yeah, I think so too. You know, I think that I've tried to balance things where there are certain people, you know, pastors, leaders that I just constantly am learning from online. You know, a few people that I've tended to follow over the years and really liked, and of course he's struggling with his health right now, but Jordan Peterson, I think he's been really amazing. There's a Catholic bishop named Bishop Barron learning from him. And then I've got, yeah, a lot of other Christian pastors and things that I watch on YouTube. And so I just have their channels And that's probably where I learned.

52:29But then I think that to your point, also just having somebody in person, I agree. For me, prayer was the single biggest thing I think helped me finding a mentor. But also me pursuing it myself, like going to church, joining growth groups. Like actually, because I think sometimes it's like we wait for, we want to sit back. But I think there's something else about us actually pursuing. One other thing I'll say, and I know that you're like this, is that any time I've had a mentor who's been willing to pour into me, I try and absolutely surrender. And of course, with a strong moral conscience of with this in terms of, I'm not listening to everything somebody says, I'm walking with the Holy Spirit in this, but trying to like, if they are giving me advice, I'm following it.

53:11I'm really taking action and going out of my way. Because anytime I've given anybody advice, if they go and take action with advice I give them, I just want to keep pouring into them. Versus if I've given plenty of people advice over the years and it's like, well, they don't do it. And I don't want to, you know, and so I think that's just an important thing, too, that you are surrendered and coachable and a good disciple if God, you know, sends that person to you. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree. So one thing I just picked up from you is that, you know, you're generally pretty healthy. You know, we talked about you've got a greenhouse, you've got chickens.

53:48Yeah. I mean, that's fantastic. You and your family, your son and family. But also, I think you've got some, maybe there's some good health habits. Again, you're 68. You said you want to be doing this in your 80s and 90s. What are some of your just natural rhythms and habits you have that keep you healthy? Yeah. Well, I try to keep moving. I swim every morning. Really? I was swimming at 630 this morning. Wow. I'm not a great swimmer. You know, I just kick my legs and side strokes and swim on my back. And I try to just stay in there for 30 minutes and just, that's sort of, and it's kind of my it's kind of my god time you know i kind of love i put my ear plugs in you kind of feel like you're in a spaceship you're in outer space a little bit because you it's weird we have your really good plugs in your ears and so you're in the water there's something about being in the water and there's something about god here i am lord have mercy on me oh god according to your step that's love according to your great compassion blood out my many transgressions i just start quoting all the the great prayer scriptures that that i've got embedded in my heart and head and and then I usually come out sometimes I get in the hot tub and stretch you know and then I water the flour I just stay active and then the first thing I do normally is I get do some lemon juice yeah and I see the lemon juice with some olive oil and I'll just take that or it's lemon juice and apple cider vinegar and a little cayenne yeah and just and that that kind of wakes up a little bit you know and then I usually try to sit and just sell in the swing and just i try to take the word and just at least have just even just five minutes you know just sort of start the day and then i'll figure out what i'm going to eat and it's either eggs i eat a lot of eggs every other day you know a little cottage cheese with the eggs and i love on cornbread oh so good oh that's the best oh yeah the best um it's not that it's yogurt then you know and do pumpkin seeds every morning i've had a uh when you talked about health issues earlier i had a big health scare two years ago i had parasites and as much as i travel all around the world oh yeah oh it was awful it was yeah it was awful and got healed by a natural doctor in college grove tennessee and but i'm always conscious that and i love sushi and i so i don't eat much sushi anymore but i have to be really be careful but pumpkin seeds every morning yogurt and then lots of salads lots of fish I'm not a vegetarian so I do chicken but it's all natural stuff and then as I said earlier a lot of times it's just a lot of green beans and squash and zucchini and Deb gets creative with you know we'll have some turkey and she'll get creative with it and do something fun a lot of guacamole avocado I'm trying to gain a little weight because I'm a little thin so i'm just trying to put on just a little bit of weight jordan's helped me with that nice yeah and then trying not to like you know you know trying not to eat a lot at night yeah yeah you know we've just been taught oh we had we're gonna have a big dinner yeah breakfast hello we have a big dinner i'm not really i don't think that because i don't feel good when i wake up the next day if i eat something yeah uh heavy and i might say heavy uh even just a lot of food yeah so i'm trying to do better at that and then you know i look at my habits in the past with pizzas after the show and all those days are over yeah yeah yeah uh my weakness is probably chips and salsa because i love salsa and i love chips and so we're on chips with avocado oil that's a little better there you go you know uh i'm back on raw milk which i thought i had some issue with you know with milk but i've so far i think it's okay okay so um but it's pretty simple you know just i don't i don't eat out a lot yeah because i don't know what they're cooking with in the kitchen yeah so that's a big deal seed oils and all that sort of thing you know so there's a lot of stuff that i'm learning and deb is she's a great student of all that you know so she knows even more than I do.

58:01So it's great to have a wife that knows how to make the right things for both of us. Oh, yeah. I'm impressed. Yeah. I mean, you're swimming. You're doing your lemon juice water in the morning. You're doing olive oil. You're doing a lot of healthy plants and protein. And that's good. Wow. I'm really impressed. Trying to stay up. Trying to stay with it. And then just staying active. Yeah. It's so good. And I think there's also something about you've got great community. You love what you got a purpose. You know, I mean, these are things that really are important for longevity and health. And you've got a great marriage.

58:32So we were just saying, so you've been married as long as I've been alive. Yeah. With 44 years going on 45 here. And what would you attribute to having such a strong marriage for that long for? Or if there's other couples or people hearing, you know, I want to have a really deep, meaningful marriage. Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm married way over my head, and she's a godly woman. She's godly. This blows my mind. I think probably, I mean, I say this a lot in interviews when I talk about this, but it's simple, but it's just communication. Yeah. And what happens to couples a lot of times is they have arguments, and they have a difference of opinions, and they fight.

59:17And it's okay to have an argument every once in a while if you disagree. but they take offense and then they stop talking and then the wound festers and then the gap gets wider yeah and then you're trying to recover and i just said we can't do that so i just got into the habit even if like we disagreed about something and it was her fault maybe that i thought was her fault i would just say it's my fault yeah because i just want everything to be okay yeah yeah i don't let the sun go down on my anger, you know? But it's always been communication, communication, communication. And then with the kind of work that I'm in, just, you know, it's gosh, I got an extraordinary life to be able to get to do what I get to do.

1:00:03But it's a dangerous one because it's like, I'm this celebrity that I hate that word. I try to downplay it as much as I can. But everybody tells you how great you are all the time. Yeah. You know, oh, you changed my life and i love that thank you god but you know if you just you just keep keep going all of a sudden you start believing the oppressed and then all of a sudden you lose your way and and then you lose your marriage and so i remember deb and i when this whole pop thing took off and that was kind of that was maybe the toughest time of our marriage because i was on all the talk shows and you know and all these ladies are throwing themselves at me i'd always have a team around me and Deb's home, you know, four kids at that point and nursing one.

1:00:46And I'm on Jay Leno and, you know, it's just a little tough. But we knew, I remember us having this big conversation going, you know what? There's probably, if you look at the stats, there's probably a better chance of us being a casualty than not. So we have to determine that we're not going to be a casualty. Yeah. And we are not going to lose our marriage. Yeah. So we did everything in our power to protect that. And here we are. Yeah. I mean, we've seen this obviously in recent years more than I feel like more than ever in terms of just, you know, pastors and churches and musicians just, you know, just just falling, you know.

1:01:26Do you have any, I guess, any thoughts about that in terms of just maybe the root of that, of maybe being just lackadaisical or not being as focused as you guys were on sort of just protecting that? You know, any thoughts there? Yeah, I just think that, yeah, especially leaders, but just everybody who's trying to walk this walk and people are falling and you can't be a Lone Ranger and you just, you, yeah, you just, you really, really, really, my opinion, you have to fight for it, man. Yeah. You got to fight for it. I even say, you know, if you don't fight for it, you're going to go down. Yeah.

1:02:07Yeah. You will go down. Yeah. so you so whatever means possible and if that's just daily accountability to somebody having a group of people who you hanging out with if you got a guy you know that's taken a dive and fallen he more than likely didn't have a very good community that's right and he wasn't honest that's right and so whoever that team is you've either lied to them or hopefully that community of people would go bro you're not being on the up and up with us. You kind of start to see through it a little bit. So you just got to fight for it. You got to fight for it. Yeah. I think the other thing you said there with fighting for it, though, I think is so important is that, and I think that this has happened maybe in Protestant churches even more and more.

1:02:54There's been more fractioning because there's so many denominations now. And so there's a lot of churches that just kind of stand by themselves. Like that pastor does not have any mentorship, doesn't have the community around. There's no accountability. Yeah. And it's the hardest job in the world. Yeah. I mean, I did it for two years with New River, and I fell in love with the flock. I fell in love with people. I'm going, whoa. It just was – well, it was tough for me because I'm from the mindset of going, can we not just love God and love people? Yeah. You know, and a lot of people in the congregation who wanted to bitch and moan or whatever, you know, and they always had to complain.

1:03:35They just kind of, oh, that would wear me out. You know, because I thought we got so many important things to do. We got to bring kingdom down to earth and all that stuff. But yeah, it's thankfully there's a lot of great ministries out there. I know several of them. I've supported some of them that are ministering to pastors, you know, just a wide thing. I know it's a bunch of them in America. They're just ministering to burnout pastors because it's a hard job. It is. Hard job. Yeah. Well, and if you think, you know, if you think of the strategy of, you know, of Satan. It's, Hey, you know, let's go after the leader, right?

1:04:12Cause it's going to affect everyone beneath too. And so I think there's a bigger target there. And I'll say one other thing about that too. And you might disagree in your viewers might disagree. I'm not sure we do church, right? I agree. Yeah. So I always go back and look at acts, you know, what all happened there. How did, how did all that go down and how they took care of the poor and took care of each other. And I'm in, from the mindset of, of, Yeah, you've got to have a pastor. He's got to bring the word. But it's life groups. People do life groups and people walking with each other. I'm not a big, big, big church fan, you know, but I know there's great things happening in big congregations.

1:04:53But I'm kind of in the mindset, if it gets so big, just start another fellowship. Start another fellowship. And don't lose the community. So when you do have a large congregation, you really do have to fight for community. So you've got to have home groups. Yeah. So again, I'm not trying to throw anybody out of the bus because I don't know everything. I'm just, I just think that the mentality of what we all think a pastor should be, I'm not totally convinced that's what God's plan is. Well, I think the other thing is when you look at the early church, and I think that this sort of example could be used in almost anything.

1:05:28You know, at some point, like when I, before I started practicing is I sat in a classroom. Yeah. And I learned some things. Yeah. But you can't stop there. When I was in practice, I learned 10 times more than when I was in school. 10 times more. And I also became way more effective. And so I think that's sort of the model today. It's we're sitting, we're learning. This sort of Western civilization of we're just going to learn and accumulate information. But versus the priority is now you're graduating or now it's applying it. And so we see that in Acts. We're taking care of the poor. We're serving them.

1:06:03We're doing that. And so I just think that we've kind of made the education part and the entertainment part the bigger pieces versus the others. And it's just become very imbalanced. I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the things that's, again, I've been so blessed to be able to just be around some amazing mentors and people that have allowed me to, I think, grow in that way and be sharpened that way. So, again, home groups to me are being able to have those Bible studies is so valuable. And then just going out and serving and utilizing our gifts for God. All right, two more things.

1:06:33One, you know, if there are people listening and maybe they've gone to church some, they consider themselves Christians or non-Christians, but they're saying to themselves, like, I want more than that. Yeah. And for me, and I know you, there's been a walking with Jesus, this deep, intimate connection. How can people cultivate that real relationship with Jesus? Like, I remember my grandfather, he would always tell me, he taught me to pray, really. And he would say, you know, Jesus is here with you. Like, he's sitting on the bed, like, he's here with you right now. He's holding your hand. He's here.

1:07:04And I think that was really good for me. And also think of it as a relationship, just like we have a relationship going deep in that way. But what is your best advice for people who want more and they want to build a true relationship with Jesus? Yeah. I just think you have to declare the promises of God over you on a daily basis. I mean, Satan wants to accuse you. He wants to take you down. He wants to tell you, you're not this and you're not that. Look what you did. You start to believe that. Oh, I don't measure up. I'm a lost cause. I can't ever get it together. I do the things I don't want to do, like Paul said, the things I don't want to do, I do.

1:07:41And you start beating yourself up. And if you get in that sort of thing, you can't climb out of that. I mean, you have to speak life over yourself. And I've got all these promises of God thing that I love, that I go to all the time, who I am in Christ, who I am. And then I heard Don the other day say this is, gosh, because it would be what I would, I say this because I saw a little clip from Greg Laurie interviewing Chuck Swindoll. So great. You know, if he had to preach your last sermon, what would it be? And Chuck just, you know, that exuberant, you know, big smile. I talk about the grace of God.

1:08:17I mean, this is so great. I love that guy. But, you know, the whole thing of just Don was painting the picture in Romans 3. Oh, my gosh, it's depressing. and oh, I guess we're doomed. But what happens? God knew that we couldn't do it. He knew we couldn't do it. He knew we couldn't do it. So he made a way. He made a way. And so those who believe, those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, he will, by faith, he will credit you with righteousness. So if you believe, then I'm righteous. I mean, he looks at me like there's a white sheet right over my head. He doesn't see mine. He doesn't see the stuff.

1:09:00He sees me as righteous. And if we can say, wow. I mean, and Dom would say, man, go wow all that in it for a while. He said, that's the best gospel that anybody can ever preach for the rest of their lives. And that's what the world needs to hear. And that's what we're supposed to do. Preach the gospel to every continent, to all peoples. And it's simple. You know, it's simple. But if you can find those scriptures where that's one, there's many. But I love that one. By faith. If you have faith and believe on him, he's going to give you righteousness. So you're righteous. End of story. Yeah. That's extraordinary to me.

1:09:43Absolutely extraordinary to me. And that's why I get up every day. And that's why I can put one foot in front of the other. I'm going, I'm destined for greatness. Yeah. Not because of my gifts. not because I'm Michael. It's nothing to do with it. I'm destined for greatness because I know who I am and I'm a child of God and I'm righteous. Yeah. In process, like we all are. Yeah. But when you get in that mindset, it's a game changer. I love that. I love that. It's so good. I think that, um, you know, one of the things that happens is when you, to your point, when you embrace Jesus as your Lord and savior now and start building this relationship with him that now, I mean, your calling goes from zero to 100.

1:10:26I mean, you know, your purpose, your mission, the meaning of your life, everything changes that radically. And so the more that you realize that how much you're loved and how much responsibility now you have to go out and change the world, it's, it is so powerful knowing what it means to be a child of God. You've got so many things going on. You've done so much, but you've got a lot more coming up. What are you most excited about right now? You know, I'm excited about the new record. You know, this is my 37th album believe it or not it's just insane i love that i'm cr i'm creating again you know i've been working on the symphony for 10 years i'd love to finish that you know the acting thing comes up but i don't you know i'm not i don't want to do that unless i find a great script you know and um but i'm really having fun just creating and to be able to do it as long as i have I say this with so much gratefulness in my heart.

1:11:19There's not too many people get to do it as long as I have. Usually you have a 10-year and then you're done. Or a five-year. I mean, if you look, the list is pretty short. Yeah. And this is my 43rd year of doing this. But having fun with Ted and he's pushing me and I'll go into the – get on this upright piano and I just start writing stuff. And Ted's going, oh my gosh, what is that? what is that pit record you know it's just like you get around creative people and it feeds you and all of a sudden I'm writing stuff going oh my gosh I have never written a song like this in my entire life and I love it wow so to me you can't try to be somebody else and I love what all these other people are doing I love what Forrest Frank's doing I mean golly that guy's just he's out there sharing gospel thousands of people getting saved or not you know I mean it's amazing you know so this is all these great but i'm up for frank i don't we don't need another bono we don't need another paul mccartney i'm just i'm me and i remember caught and i'll end here saying this when i was wrestling with what do i write and i remember kyle lee the producer i've worked with in the past who i love very talented guy he said you know what you need to make a record for yourself which he was saying you need to make a record that you love and more than likely if you love it there's probably a better chance than not that other people will love it as well so to me when you write something that just makes you come alive yeah it doesn't get any better than that and it's so fulfilling and you're so excited and even if it doesn't connect maybe that's okay yeah and some songs maybe you're just maybe song some songs are just written for god yeah but audience of one And maybe it's just, maybe nobody will hear this melody that I wrote.

1:13:11It's an instrumental. Maybe you'll never see the light of day. But sometimes I feel like God's saying, well done. That's good stuff. There's a Bible verse about it. Whatever you do, do it unto the Lord. I love it. Do it unto the Lord. And that's what I'm trying to do on a daily basis, that you've been given this gift. It's a great responsibility. What are you going to do with it? You're just going to bury it. I'm not going to bury it. I'm going to, as long as there's creativity coming from heaven. And I say that in a weird way. I heard somebody the other day going, you know, played some song and some guys go, oh, yeah, it's all him.

1:13:52Somebody said, wasn't that great? You know, so I'm always careful to say, it's all him. You know, you have to, one of my greatest, two things, maybe I'll end here. Two of my greatest things that I would love to do in life. So I'd love to be able to peek into the window of heaven and just hear just five seconds of what's going on up there and bring that down. That would be awesome. And then the other thing, and this is on a personal note, and I think I'm almost there. I'm getting there. I pray that I'll never, ever, ever be offended by anyone ever again. And would that just be the most freeing place that you don't really care what people think about you?

1:14:32Yeah. So I'm getting there. That's so good. it's a book I read years ago. I think it was called When God is Big and People Are Small. But sort of that perspective of that's what you care about is, you know, God, you know, he's looking down on you. You know, Jesus is here with us and that you're making him proud. You're Heavenly Father proud. And that's what matters most. And I love that perspective. It's so powerful. Michael, thanks so much for coming on today. I mean, I've been so blessed. I've learned so much. I've been just convicted in terms of just continuing to delve deeper and memorize scripture and just continue to be better in life.

1:15:00And I think there's something also about your life that is, I mean, this is the most positive way possible. There's some complexity, but there's also simplicity of trying to say yes to the things that matter most, really focusing on God, focusing on family, focusing on your gifts and mission and not a lot, a lot, a lot else, you know, and so focusing on those things. And I love that. I just want to say, Hey, thanks everybody for listening and tuning in here, the Dr. Axe show. I hope you've been as blessed with this conversation as I have with Michael W. Smith. I want to encourage you go out and check out his albums.

1:15:28Actually, let me ask you that quick. Where I guess probably today where they go, Spotify, iTunes, search Michael W. All the stream. Yeah, MichaelLobbySith.com. You can kind of find it all there. But yeah, Spotify, Apple, who knows? I probably don't even know half of them. You can follow on social media too, a great place to follow him. And if you're not subscribed yet to the podcast, make sure you subscribe as well and share this. There are so many people, by the way, I'm going to be going and sharing this. My mom's going to love this. I'm going to be sharing this with my mom and family members because they've been big fans of you, Michael, for years.

1:15:58And so think about one person you could share this with. Share it with them on text message or social media or maybe a group chat if you're on a group chat with people. Might bless somebody. And again, thanks for subscribing. And thanks so much for listening here. And hey, if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment, let us know, what is your favorite Michael W. Smith song? What is something that he shared with you today that you're gonna walk away with, a piece of wisdom that Michael shared? We'd love to hear from you as well. So thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you on the next episode.