The Enemy’s Attack on Your Health (Lies, Anxiety & Disease) | Pastor Max Lucado

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1:12the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. When my mom was battling with cancer the second time, we decided to take an all-natural approach. We said, we're not doing conventional treatments. We're going to really focus on healing her mind, body, and spirit. We started juicing vegetables, doing turmeric and reishi mushroom, all kinds of, you know, very specific protocol. But one of the biggest differences between that first time and that second time was we said, we're going to really focus on spiritual healing. And my mom beat cancer naturally.

1:39Her tumor shrunk. Amazing. Yeah. And I believe that A lot of diseases, even cancer more than any, there is a very deep spiritual and mental root that's feeding those tumors, that's feeding that disease. So if we can go and get to the root, the body can heal. Josh, by the time I was 20 years old, I was a train off the tracks. I was a drunk. I was a fighter, a brawler. I was a misogynist, a racist, and a hypocrite. I heard sermons about God's forgiveness, and I thought, I just can't, I can't believe it. He couldn't forgive a jerk like me. 50 years ago, I heard a sermon that convinced me, okay, I'm going to trust God to forgive me.

2:14What is heaven going to be like? So if you want to know the end, you go back to the beginning.

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3:40Josh Axe Show. I'm so excited today. We have Max Locato with us here in the house and he's authored over 44 books. He's a pastor. He's a person that I've read many of his books. I know my mom is a big fan. She's read loads of them. And today we're gonna talk about numerous things. One, how to win the battle of your mind. So many of us have negative thoughts that lead to depression, anxiety, lack of purpose, lack of motivation in our life. And we know that there is this deep, deep mind-body connection that oftentimes makes us ill. And so today we're going to go through, and Max is going to share with us how to heal our mind, how to heal our emotions, how to have a deeper, more intimate connection with God, and so much more.

4:20Max, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Josh. I'm super excited to be here. It's a great honor. And I can't wait to pick your brain on a few questions that I have. Well, same here. Well, again, it's a real honor here. Like I said, I mean, I've read, you've been reading your books now for, I mean, a long time. I mean, probably, you know, 25 years. So, so, so, so for a long time now, and one of the things we do on this show, you know, we hit a lot on, on diet and what to eat and supplementation and sort of the latest therapies and things like that. But we also talk a lot about spiritual health and mental health and the importance of that.

4:54And I've always had sort of that focus, even when I had my functional medicine practice on, I noticed with patients that just as much as eating a piece of pizza or conventional ice cream would cause a, you know, inflammatory response in their body, negative emotions such as beating themselves up mentally, divorce, losing a loved one, stress at work, these sort of things really, childhood trauma, these things really affect our physical health. And I think much, much more than people realize. And I think probably the greatest deficiency today in the health field is this realization and people practically going after or focusing on healing, again, trauma from their past or negative emotions or negative thoughts.

5:36And this is something you've written a book on. It's called Tame Your Thoughts. And I'd love for you to kind of share your experience and practice with people in terms of how many people today are dealing with negative thoughts on a regular basis. You're spot on, Josh. Statistics vary, but they're consistent. 44 % of Americans say they live under a state of anxiety and sadness. That's stunning, isn't it? 44%. Even more so, 42 % of teenagers would say the same. And that's tragic. I mean, that's that time of life you're supposed to be optimistic, excited, looking to the future. But the most sobering statistic is that 22 % of teenagers have seriously contemplated orchestrating their own departure and suicide.

6:35I was in a restaurant the other day, and in comes a group of kids, you know, maybe 10 or 11 of them. And I was thinking of that statistic. I had just read it, and I thought, what a stunning thought. If these kids are representative of that statistic, then four out of those 10 kids are not happy. Two out of those 10 have contemplated suicide. So it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. Uh, so I think it's a very real issue and I'm so grateful for you, Josh, and your emphasis on this and your realization that our mind and our bodies, uh, connect. Uh, I read the book, think this, not that and loved it and loved it.

7:23I think you and I are really on the same page that if you really want to have a better life, it begins with better thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I've seen, Max, is that there are a lot of gurus online. There's a lot of psychiatrists, a lot of psychologists, a lot of counselors. There's a lot of methods for helping people overcome. And a lot of books that have been written on how to how to tame your thoughts and win the war in your mind and some of these different these different things. And one of the things I see in the health field is people saying, Dr. How do I know which diet to follow?

7:58There's keto. There's carnivore. There's vegan, there's gluten-free, and then there's like a million supplements I could take. I couldn't possibly do it all. From your perspective, how does somebody find the right way to do it? Like, how does somebody discover what the truth is and the right way to going about actually getting, I talk a lot about the root cause. How do we actually get to the root of these, you know, negative thoughts and emotions that, you know, affect our physical health? But this has really been a question that I've wrestled with, Josh. I just turned 70, and so I've entered officially my eighth decade.

8:36Wow. I've been a pastor since 1979. That's a long time, right? A long time. And I don't mean this at all to sound morbid, but I'm at that season of life where I'm thinking, okay, I just have a few more shots. I get to go to bat, you know, just a few more times. And I'm thankful. I've had a wonderful life. I'm super grateful. And I cannot wait to go to heaven. I cannot. So I'm at peace. But as you move into this final season of ministry or work, I'm thinking, what is the burden that I feel? What have I seen? And so the reason this book, Tame Your Thoughts, is coming out is because it comes out of a concern I have.

9:27You know, all these years of being a pastor, how many conversations have I had? How many counseling sessions? You know, how many hallway chit-chats? And it seems to me that all of our issues can be traced back to our inability to think in the way God wants us to think. And over the years, Josh, I developed two or three tools. Well, really three. Three tools. I didn't really have them articulated like as they are in the book. I just knew to grab them when I needed them. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to try to capture those tools because I think they work. I really do. I think they're simple.

10:11I think they're stickable. I think people can put them into practice immediately. I present them always with the caveat that there are situations where people need a therapist or professional counselor or to see someone who's far more advanced in their study than I. And that's perfect. There may even be a case in which medication is prescribed. And if so, that's OK. However, all of us could benefit from kind of a thought management 101 course. And so that's why I created the book. I share three practical tools for thought management, and then I apply those tools to some of the more dangerous or toxic thought cycles that we have in life.

10:55So practically, how do we do that? How do we think the way that God wants us to think? Yeah. So the big idea, Romans 12, 2, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed conformed by the renewal of your mind. That's kind of the go-to verse, isn't it? And it's a beautiful verse. It's a beautiful verse because here Paul is describing two kinds of people. Some are conformed, right? They're pressed. They're shaped by the world, by the way the world thinks. It makes me think of Play-Doh. When I was a kid, we had a Play-Doh kit and we would press. We have molds and we'd create a dog or a snake.

11:37Well, there are many people who are allowing society to conform them, to conform them, to be always angry or to find your meaning in money or to think about the opposite sex in a certain fashion. We're being conformed. We may not know it, but we're being conformed. So Paul says, Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't be conformed, but be transformed. And this is that great word in Greek, metamorpho, from which we get the word metamorphosis. And anybody who paid attention in middle school biology class knows that the caterpillar experiences a metamorphosis to become a butterfly. I find this to be a goosebump giving.

12:25I'm having them right now. Goosebump giving promise. And that is that God can take our minds and transform them, transform them. You know, neuroscience talks a lot about neuroplasticity, how our brains can be shaped, can be changed, how we can create new habits. I love that. And I'm grateful for that. I think scripture was teaching that, you know, long before the neuroscientists were advocating it. And that is God can change our minds. He can shape us. You know, I wanted to say this, just in a sort of like real world sense of something that I saw, you know, when we were going through COVID-19, I think there was this, this thing that happened to a lot of people where a number of people started saying to themselves, I think I'm being lied to maybe by the media or the government or the sort of medical agency.

13:16And if I'm being lied to here, where else am I being lied to? Yeah. And and I saw this a lot with people like Russell Brand, Joe Rogan, maybe even Jordan Peterson. He was already there and moving in that direction before that. But I saw that with him. I mean, numerous people. And and I think about someone like Russell Brand, too. And I don't know if you've seen online, but he's just had an amazing metamorphosis, an amazing transformation of his mind. and he's now like, you know, he got baptized and baptizing others and just, you know, and being a real spokesperson for Christ. And it's been an amazing thing.

13:53But I think for him, I think there was this thing where he was around certain people and in certain flutes. And it was this thing that you're talking about is they were influencing their mind. And the first thing I think that I see with him or even someone, I feel like Joe Rogan, other people are waking up. It's like, Well, wait, one of the first steps is realizing, wait, I am being influenced. I am having people control my mind and it's going to happen, but I at least need to choose what's going to influence me. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the promise that God gives us is that he will transform our minds.

14:27So, of course, I come at this from a Christian worldview. And I believe there is a God. I believe that God is a loving God. I believe that God came to earth and visited the earth and spoke to us, left us the teachings of Scripture. I believe he loves us. I believe he's coming back for us. My whole world is framed from that perspective. And one of the things that people might miss when it comes to the promises of Christ is that God gives us what Scripture calls the helmet of salvation. The helmet of salvation. It's a beautiful passage, Ephesians 6, that talks about the full armor of God. And one of the things that God gives us is a helmet.

15:12Well, where does a helmet go? A helmet goes on our head, right? And that helmet is called the helmet of salvation. And that's to say that God is saving us. He's saving us from negative thoughts, from depressive thoughts, from bitter thoughts, from angry thoughts. Another scripture promises even that we have access to the mind of Christ. Christ never battled anxiety. He doesn't want us to battle anxiety. Christ was never sucked under by shame. And so God wants us to live a life in which we're free of shame. So this is the promise of God. I think that discipleship or becoming a follower of Christ, Josh, is simply learning to think the way God wants us to think.

15:59You remember some years ago, there was that bracelet that was the big trip. WWJD. WWJD. You know, you're quite the entrepreneur. You would know how to do this. I wouldn't. But create a new bracelet that says WWJT. What would Jesus think? Because it's the way he thought that is so remarkable. And like you as a people helper in your profession, me the same. I've tried to find ways to help people think. Why do you think this way? Do you have to think this way? In fact, can I share the first of my three tools? I would love it. Yeah, that'd be great. The first is so obvious, but people miss it. I call it practice picky thinking.

16:41Just because you have a thought, you don't have to think it. There's a passage in 2 Corinthians 10 in which we're told to take every thought captive. Yeah. Every thought captive. Yeah. And so just because thoughts are there. I don't know. Is would it be overstatement to say 100 percent of life is thought management? Well, it's obviously a lot. And to your point, I think every day, you know, when I when I was younger, I had a teacher say something really negative to me and it made me feel like I wasn't smart. And I live with this sort of issue for years. I had another teacher tell me you are in a way.

17:17And I think I had the choice every single day to believe this or this. And one question I think that or one thing that I sort of learned to do myself is to do. Well, a couple of things. One, what does the Bible say? Yeah. What does God say about these two things? And the other thing is, which one can be used for my good and the good of others? Like, you know, is me believing that I'm worthless or not smart or not capable? Is that, you know, is that going to allow me to advance the kingdom of God? Is that true? Is that good for me? Is that good for others? Yeah. No. So I think having these filters, as you've created in your book, is so powerful because it's a way of finding what the truth is.

18:02Exactly. Exactly. And that presupposes that you know where to go for the truth. Yeah. And as a Christian, I believe in the Bible. Yeah. I believe the Bible has authority over the way that I think. Yeah. I had a family member recently graduate RN school. And so we wanted to get him a Bible that had his name engraved, you know, just a really nice, really nice Bible. And I was going to get him for Christmas, but it just kept getting backward and backward and backward. And finally, we got it in May, just right in time for his graduation, because there have been so many Bible sales this year. The sales of Bible that just skyrocketed.

18:40Well, skyrocketing. Why is that? I think especially among the young generation, GMC. So while we have concern with these statistics, we have good news because that's the generation that's going back to church or going back to Christ. We're reading wonderful reports, for example, that church attendance in England is at an all time high. Wow. Stunning and primarily led by males. Hey, Dr. Axe here. I want to let you know about an absolutely incredible and cutting-edge line of skincare called Clear Stem. That stands for clear skin and also helping stem cell production. You know, I am a big fan of stem cells because they've helped me heal and regenerate my body.

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20:11Axe for 15 % off. I think the secular promises have just failed to deliver. Yeah. Just failed to deliver. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The Christian promise says God loves you. God made you. He's coming for you. He's going to help you. He's going to bless you. The secular promise says you're born, you die, have as much fun as you can and hope you don't get shot. I mean, it's just pathetic. Exactly. Well, you know, I think the other thing that's happened is, I think to your point, I think also this world of social media today has uncovered more of the truths. You know, I think about this more in my field and being in natural medicine.

20:52I think that we have the best emergency medical system in the world. That's what the statistics say. But our healthcare out of like the 42 industrial nations is like between 40 and 42. It's like dead last because we've taken a crisis care system and tried to apply it to healthcare for a long-term health for people actually healing. And it doesn't, it doesn't work that way. I bring that all up to say, I think a lot of people have started saying, well, I want to take turmeric instead of taking aspirin, or I want to start doing this instead of this, because for years, maybe you couldn't even, it was hard to even find the truth.

21:25And today with social media, so much is popping up. People can actually sometimes discover things a little bit more quickly. And so I think even to your point with this young generation, they're able to search a sermon or read a book or have access to this information maybe a little bit more quickly as well. But yeah, these sales have just obviously gone up dramatically in so many ways. One of the things that comes to mind with what you're sharing is there's this quote by A.W. Tozer, and I'm going to get this somewhat close, but maybe not word for word, but it's something to the degree of what you believe about God is like the most important thing about you or the most important thing about your thoughts.

22:04How true is that in part of it? It's absolutely true. Absolutely true. What you believe about God is the most important thing about you. If you perceive that there is no God, that's going to create one kind of person. If you perceive that there is a God, but he's distant and uncaring, that creates another kind of person. If you perceive that God is perpetually ticked off at you, that's going to create another kind of person. But if you believe in the God that we see in Scripture as presented in the face of Christ, Jesus is the only picture of God ever taken. So if you want to see God, you see Jesus.

22:39Then you see a Christ who loves people, who cares, who hates what hurts people, who has promised to provide a sacrifice for our sins and who has a destiny for us to live forever with him, serving in a perfect paradise. So that's the understanding that can create a healthy mindset. And so I think that quote by A.W. Tozer is absolutely true. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I've always appreciated about you, Josh, and especially the whole world of functional medicine is you try to get to the root cause. Right. Instead of just treating the symptom. Yeah. You get to the root cause of the problem.

23:26And and I think that that applies in our thought process, too. You know, instead of treating the symptom, well, I'm always anxious, so I guess I better go take another pill. you know, or I'm always angry. So I guess I better go sit in the corner and just be angry. You know, why don't you go back to the beginning and figure out where this is coming from? Yeah. One of my tools is called UFO. Not like the aliens in the spaceships over Roswell, New Mexico, but understanding that an untruth always leads to a false narrative that creates an overreaction. And when I'm talking to people in a pastoral setting, in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to try to find that untruth, that they come in with an overreaction.

24:16I'm so angry at my husband. I want to, you know, I'm a terrible parent. You know, our life is miserable. I get it. But I've learned, Josh, that if I really want to help that person, instead of just saying, let's deal with your overreaction, if we could go up river, we'll find an untruth. untruth. It might be a lie. It might be just a misunderstanding or misconception. So let's find out what that is. And that'll create a false narrative, which is a narrative is what we say to ourselves and the way we see ourselves. And that then leads to the overreactions. So I think it's really helpful in managing our thoughts to be aware that an untruth can, You mentioned a teacher who told you what was it?

25:07Well, basically, I went in. I told her I wanted to be a doctor. I was failing her class. This is freshman year of high school. And she said, Josh, listen, you'll never get into med school. Your GPA is too low. She's like, you got enough on this paper. And then I went into a doctor, and my mom brought me because I had really severe ADHD. And he said, listen, your son has a learning disability. He's going to have trouble struggling here, got prescribed Adderall and Ritalin. And so, but that's sort of what that background was. We all have those moments. All of us. All of us have those moments. In my case, I just didn't believe God could forgive me.

25:44Josh, by the time I was 20 years old, I was a train off the tracks. I was a drunk. I was a fighter, a brawler. I was a misogynist, a racist, and a hypocrite. And I just did not, I heard sermons about God's forgiveness. And I thought, I just can't, I can't believe it. He couldn't forgive a jerk like me. Well, that's an untruth. That's an untruth. I can see why I assume that. I even had a couple of my drinking buddies tell me that. But I had to make a choice. And 50 years ago, I'm kind of celebrating a golden anniversary of grace these days. 50 years ago, I heard a sermon that convinced me, okay, I'm going to trust God to forgive me.

26:27So I went from an untruth to a truth. My untruth could have led to a false narrative. I'm unforgivable. I'm going to be covered in shame. It could have led to, who knows, the tragic overreaction. But the truth, God does love me. He can forgive me, led to an accurate narrative. I am a sinner, but I'm saved by God's grace. And the appropriate reaction is, thank you, Father. I want to do my best to help others. Now, I have let Jesus down many times in these 50 years, but he's never let me down. Hey, by the way, to commemorate that, I got a tattoo. Wow, look at that. Yeah. Celeste, what does that mean?

27:12That's a Greek word. When Jesus hung on the cross, he said, it is finished. Yeah. It's a commercial term that means it is paid. Yeah, wow. I don't care about tattoos, but on the 50th anniversary, I thought, I want to do something to really commemorate that. And so I found a friend who knew a friend who was a tattoo. First tattoo at 70. I love it. Yeah, I know. And I love it. And I show it to people. It gives me a chance to tell my story. Oh, man, I love it. That's so powerful. You know, one of the things you'd mentioned earlier is that, you know, in finding the truth, what we believe about God is so critical that.