The Untold Story Behind The Chosen | Dallas Jenkins & Amanda Jenkins

32:38Lewis quote and he says something to this extent, the people that do the most in this life are the very same people that think the most about the next life or live with that internal mindset. And I think that that's a great example of that. It's a powerful example. I'm curious from you, like when you saw that scene as a guy whose life, your life's work is helping others heal. And as a believer, someone who you have no doubt seen many people be healed through prayer. You've probably seen many people healed through miracles, many people healed through traditional medicine and holistic healing. And then I'm sure you've experienced where it's like it didn't work at the pace that you thought well let me tell you what was really interesting for me with that is i was overcoming my own major major health battle the biggest i'd had in my life i didn't and i think i maybe shared this with you one time but i had a spinal infection and i didn't walk for a year and i was just on a walker and i i was actually having a little bit of a spiritual battle where i was believing and i felt like god was i i was believing i was going to get back to 100 but the thought i had to keep creeping back in my head was, you'll never be back at 100%.

33:45You might get 50, you might get 70, you'll never be back. And that's when I was watching that scene, to be honest. And to me, it was this thing where it was like, you know what? I think the thing that I walked away with was, listen, we're called to live out having faith and hope and love, right? And so whether I will be healed or I won't be healed, it's actually less about that. It's more about just having a faith in God and understanding that he works out all things for good. and so but but i you know i regularly work with some of the hardest conditions i mean a lot of times i'm like the 10th or 20th person that somebody has come come to see and sometimes they have seen conventional doctors they've seen a lot maybe even a lot of other natural doctors and so it's um and so there are we know that there are a lot of conditions that are incredibly hard incredibly challenging and some that are genetic that without a supernatural miracle will not be healed.

34:39And so I think for me, I love the scene. I was so grateful for the scene because I think it gives a lot of people peace. I think it gives a lot of people, I think it does bring in that idea of understand again that I thought the scene was just perfect from the standpoint of the quoting of Isaiah there, because I think bringing people back to the, this eternal mindset is, I think it's so powerful. Because we heard from literally thousands and thousands of people who said that scene, um i i i for for decades i have a bit sought answers from pastors or for you know about why i'm struggling or why i'm suffering or why i'm going to be in this wheelchair or whatever and and that that scene helped me understand for the first time and felt seen i felt seen from you know for the first time and i would just say you know i even though that scene that dialogue that jesus of jesus and little james talking isn't directly from the gospels right but i do believe it's scripture role i do believe that when you read the totality of the bible you see a god who and throughout the course of time a god who has his hand in everything including suffering yeah and who's just he's simply getting us on an eternal perspective and that was the biggest thing for me is because i don't want people to be discouraged from still seeking healing and still seeking and asking and asking like god still wants that engagement with us but because jesus in in We filmed this on season five, Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

36:08Based on scripture, when he's saying, can you take this cup from me? Is there another way? I mean, he's genuinely— I don't want to do this. And the reason we know that that—because some scholars are like, well, that was a metaphor for something else. Jesus' will is always inextricably linked to his Father's will. Like, well, yeah, for the most part. But he actually says after that, he goes, but not my will, but yours be done. That's right. So when he teaches the Lord's Prayer and says, you know, Father in heaven, hallowed be the name. Your kingdom come. Yeah, your kingdom come, your will be done.

36:44And he's teaching that to the disciples. He experiences that himself, where he has to say to the Father, I want one thing, but I want more your will. Your will be done, not mine. And so I think as long as we maintain in the process of whatever healing journey we're on, or whether we're on a journey that's going to ultimately continue in heaven, that we are asking for your will, not mine. I do want healing. I do want to have a relationship with you. I do want to be engaged with you. I do trust that you are the God of healing. But ultimately, not my will, but yours. And I will look for other types of miracles that could be taking place as well, even if the miracle of my leg being straightened or whatever doesn't take place.

37:31That doesn't mean that there's not miracles taking place in the midst of that journey. Do you have unexplainable illness, hormone dysfunction, weight loss, resistance, brain fog, and you're tired of being dismissed when you know something isn't right? Well, get my at-home testing of targeted biomarkers, including hormones, thyroid, and metabolism, plus a full hour with one of my senior health advisors to help you understand your results. The truth is your doctor is probably reading your blood work all wrong. They're missing the cellular issues behind the symptoms. This new testing flips the script.

38:07The future of interpreting test results is here. I'm currently offering a simple at-home blood test that actually tests for the right things. And just as importantly, it comes with proper interpretation of your results. If you want to check it out and grab one before they're gone, just go to mybloodwork.com now. I love that. You know, there's a couple scenes that I, there are, I should say a couple. There are probably hundreds of scenes that I just so appreciate it as I've watched the series. You know, the one that really maybe struck me the hardest, I think, was there's the episode where Jesus is healing hundreds and hundreds of people.

38:48And then the disciples are fighting. And at the end, you know, he gets back and he just is so fatigued. He's just wiped out and just crashes in his mom. And, you know, Mary goes and just, you know, takes care of him. But it was so convicting, I think, for me. And I think, you know, there are constant theological debates going on, whether it be within Protestantism or Protestant Catholics and Orthodox. I mean, there's these constant debates going on. And there's that scene. And there's also a scene when he is talking to Matthew and he is writing the Sermon on the Mount. Yes. When you see them, again, passionately, sometimes debating things as well.

39:32um what's your and i know you've you've taken a lot of criticism uh and and a lot of praise as well with the show what what what what are your what are your thoughts on that yeah so one thing at a time the you can talk about uh season three episode two or no season two episode three uh that's when uh yeah that jesus is healing people and and i and it's just like one verse in the bible where it says and jesus healed hundreds of people they all lined up the he he's healing all these people and i thought what would have been like for the disciples like taking turns helping and what they're like backstage and what they're discussing backstage and as as he's healing there they start arguing about um the messiah and their own lives and they and and and they start bickering and bickering and bickering and and and then jesus just walks by and says you know good night as he heads to the to the tent and they see him covered in blood and sweat from having exhausted himself of serving others.

40:31And without saying anything else, they were convicted of, here we are, arguing and bickering about things. And that is what, you know, obviously the message of that is like, are we focused on the right things, right? Are we focused on the main thing, serving others? That leads to, yes, the fact that even on The Chosen, there are many people who argue and there's a lot of theological debates and we've gotten tons of criticism. The scene that you're bringing up is when Jesus is preparing the Sermon on the Mount, we portray him as kind of working through what he's going to say. And there are some people who were bothered by the notion that Jesus would ever have to take any time or prepare.

41:13Or even ask other people's thoughts on theology or whatever. We show him with Matthew and they're kind of working on it together. Now, in season five, we talk about what we were intending with that scene is that one of the biggest ways that Jewish rabbis teach is by asking questions and by having their students kind of work through them, work through things with them. And so Matthew says to Jesus in season five of our show, he says, thank you. I know that when you were asking for my opinions on the Sermon on the Mount, you were doing that to teach me. You're getting me to think because he wants us to be engaged with him.

41:49but all that to say um eight years ago when my career failed and i had this big movie that released nationwide and it was a total bomb and i didn't know if i was going to make another movie or tv show and that's when it's a long story but that's when that concept of um my job is not to feed the 5 000 it's only to provide the five loaves and two fish god told someone to tell me that from across the world. And I got on this plan, this life plan for the first time in my life, where I truly stopped focusing on the results, truly stopped focusing on my drug of choice, which was affirmation. Affirmation is what fed me legitimacy.

42:32I wanted to be legitimized. I wanted to be successful. I wanted to be affirmed. All those things mattered to me. And, and I was in a business that was measured by numbers. And so I got on the five and two plan. I genuinely surrendered and genuinely said, okay, from now on, I'm going to bring five loaves and two fish. I'm not responsible for the feeding of the 5 ,000. If you want to multiply the five loaves and two fish, that's on you. But when I deliver my five loaves and two fish and you deem them worthy of acceptance, the transaction is over. It became a superpower. So I truly, genuinely care about what God thinks.

43:10Second is Amanda. and after that yeah i really genuinely don't care um now that's not to say that wise people you don't have your board i came to you for advice i mean i still want advice from people in life i counsel i care you know all of those things um and i don't want scholars that we have on the show and i don't want to make i don't want to make a show that that you know no one watches and that just offends people but i'm just saying like if i honor god first and if i am faithful to the character and intentions of Jesus in the gospels when I make this show, that I genuinely just can't focus on what others are thinking.

43:47And not to try to tie it into what you always talk about with your podcast of the mind-body connection, but my desire for affirmation would lead to physical things too. Well, it was the first thing that jumped in my head when you said that is people-pleasing is incredibly toxic to really your digestive system, your immune system. I mean, it's very, very hard on it yeah well i i you literally probably couldn't do what you do you'd eventually just have health ailments that would you know keep you from well yeah and i remember there was a time when i was all full disclosure here i'm really she i mean we're authentic yeah okay so i'll go with ed holy my counselor i have a therapist in my life who uh biblical counselor and stuff who said yeah you you're addicted to performance right yeah like you you want affirmation but you're always performing.

44:40And sometimes your body goes, we're done performing. And it creeped into my physicality. I'm going like, sorry. So it's okay. Since we're on this road, what was so funny about it, walking his way out of that, because it was like connecting your mind body, right? So this is happening in my body. Where's my head at? Where's my heart at? Right. And so his counselor helped with that. But then I learned to go, okay, when that occurs, we just have to stop and go, Dallas, give me a feeling word. What are we feeling? What's happening internally? Let's link up the mind and body. And as soon as he does, the problem dissipates.

45:13Well, you know, it's amazing. So I've worked with hundreds of women who were struggling with fertility, and then we're able to get pregnant. And you know, the number one, and literally, all the things they can do, the number one thing that can help them is to stop trying so hard. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's it's it's things like that. I mean, it just and we, and we don't realize how I mean, those different emotions or things we have literally, they'll literally just shut down organs i mean shut them down it's it's i'm aware yeah exactly and i do want to say something about dallas when dallas walked in here when you walked in here today my first thought was this guy is in great physical shape you're really in great shape i'm like you know you you uh yeah i told him like i thought you were a linebacker so the guy's really i don't think i could do the chosen honestly with with all the demands of the show i turned 50 this year.

46:06And I am a bit of a health nut. But at the same time, and this is an important time, and you and I have talked about this, because when I first reached out to you, like my daughter, she majors in exercise science, that was her major. She is getting into physical therapy. I'm in health nut. It can also become an idol. Like for sure, my obsession with it is my is one of my biggest idolatrous things in my life and now i used to be motivated as much about affirmation and looking good and all that kind of stuff i genuinely don't care as much about that anymore it really is about like for me to be able to do this show and to do all the things that we're doing i have to be my mind has to be sharp and yes my faith has to be sharp and a lot of times you find people who are struggling physically and that impacts their their their spiritual their spiritual relationship with Christ and vice versa um so all that to say um when we we got to a place where I'm like I've got to get like the the totality of my life I'm so obsessed with affirmation that it is impacting me physically and my desire to perform is being impacted and so uh what is it in my life that is causing some of these physical conditions and so we took a hard look at that.

47:23But my point is, genuinely not caring how the world reacts to you, as long as you are faithfully honoring God, it really does have a huge impact on your physical life, on your spiritual life, but everything. And I truly got to that place when every time I'd have a little instinct to humble brag or to try to get credit for something or to do a social media post and really hope that I game the algorithm to get more likes and all of those things. When I finally, for every time that would happen, I would replace it with scripture. I would replace it. I had my counselor give me some scriptures about finding my identity in Christ and fearing God more than fearing man.

48:08And I would just kind of repeat those verses. It really did slowly but surely replace my desires. Like I became a different person in this regard. That's amazing. For sure. And I think, too, when you were talking about that scene where Jesus comes in and the disciples are bickering, it's really convicting sometimes watching chat rooms. I actually don't watch them very often. That is also part of the superpower is you just don't look. That's right. You don't praise. You don't really look at. And criticism you don't really look at. You look at your core group and people you're accountable to for content, right?

48:40And then the rest of it you don't really pay much attention to. But there was a time early on when people, fans of the show were finding one another. And they were like, we love the show. I love the show. I love the show. And then they started to find out they came from all these different denominational backgrounds. And then they started to go, wait, you're Catholic, but I'm an evangelical. Wait, you're this, but I'm this. Something must be wrong with the show. That was some of the conclusions with something wrong with the show. The show is unifying people. Because we're unifying. And that's not like, that means they must be watering down or it's too ecumenical or whatever.

49:13Or you'd be like, wait, you're not supposed to be in this room of... This is my Jesus. No, this is my Jesus. And so one of the things I just learned early on is, first of all, I was a Pharisee a good chunk of my life, tended towards judgmentalism, tended towards being hard on people, lacked grace. So I come from a place where God's been working on me for a long time in this. But then when you see it like that, you just go, okay, all the more, Lord, give me a heart of humility and just to focus on Jesus, just Jesus, because whether it's seeking affirmation or whether it's being self-righteous or whatever it is, Jesus breaks it all down.

49:51And I think that is what has allowed us, humbling over time has allowed us then to steward this project in a way that I don't think, I think it would have crushed you years ago, physically, spiritually, emotionally. And I think, I don't think we could have ignored the criticism or ignored the affirmation in the way that we're able to now. And my favorite thing about Dallas a few years ago, when he was doing, that he was filming the episode where it's the miracle of the fish. It's the very first season where Jesus fills the boat and then calls Peter and Andrew, James and John. Simon's been up all night trying to catch fish, hasn't caught a single one, and Jesus fills his boat.

50:34And then later afterwards, he talks to Simon about how I'm going to make you a fisher of men. And we were having this stuff happen in chat rooms and certain people liking the show and not liking, you know, but not liking who else was coming. And he just really very clearly, he was like, I think I've had my life mission clarified. I'm a gatherer. I'm just supposed to gather people to Jesus. That's all I'm supposed to do. I'm not supposed to judge who comes. I'm not supposed to throw them out. Throw any back or reject any. Jesus gave a parable about the fish. He's like a fisherman who gathers fish and then they toss the bad ones back into the water.

51:10And he says, that's how it's going to be at the end of the age. You're going to gather, you're going to be a fisher of men. And then the angels at the end of the age will sort the evil from the righteous. And I'm like, well, I'm not an angel at the end of the age. So my job isn't to sort the evil from the righteous. My job is to gather into a net as many people as I can towards an authentic Jesus. And then that's where the five and two principle comes in, too. is it's not just about the numbers, but it's also about the result of the people in my life, the people who see the show, how they react to it.

51:40I'm really just gotta be responsible for, as the best I can, introducing them to an authentic Jesus. Yeah, you know, I love that. You know, it's interesting. So growing up, half of my family was Protestant, half was Catholic. And my grandma was super devout. My mom and grandfather, they were super devout. And so, I mean, there were some family moments. Lively conversation. Lively conversation. and but you know like right now like i'm very much at the place of and i feel like the world is like this more now than it was definitely 20 years ago and i think the chosen has been part of this but it's like i i'm if you're catholic great if you're protestant great if you're orthodox great do you love jesus right are you serving jesus do you have a relationship with jesus and um and i actually think personally the protestants probably got rid of too many of the you know of the some of the powerful rituals the practices like like even confession I'm like I need to just have a practice of confessing more it brings a level of humility for me so anyways all that being said I do think it's done an amazing job of helping bring people together in that way I want to ask you something you know one of the things when I'm counseling somebody with their health I really try and do it from the physical standpoint but also that mental and spiritual standpoint.

52:54And one of the things I think people often that makes them ill and that doesn't allow them to have full health or just life is a lot of identity issues, a lot of how maybe they see their own story. You know, a lot of times people see themselves as the victim. Like I have a lot of people they get in and they feel like I'm a victim and they never get out of it. And they'll start to identify saying the biggest part of their identity is I have cancer or fibromyalgia or autoimmune disease. And it literally is the number one part of their identity. Yes. One of the things that you've done such an incredible job of, and by the way, this is so many years ago, your dad had a course on writing.

53:33That's right. So you asked me earlier, I never answered that about my dad. But I didn't want to say that. So he wrote the left behind books. He's written over 200 books. He's got a writing course. So I read those books in high school and college and loved him, the left behind series. And it was funny. I was meeting with Kirk Cameron here recently. He just moved to Nashville and, you know, he played, you know, playing the mid character. But I, but anyways, you know, like I had watched this video series he did on just telling a great story. And of course the Bible tells a great story, but also share with me your thoughts on how can you telling a great story or a series telling a great story also help people think about their own lives.

54:11Thinking, how can I live out a better story with my life? Yeah, no, that's a great question. Yeah, I mean, that's been one of the things that has been really revelatory for us. When you're tasked with stewarding the portrayal of the life of Jesus to the world, and I shouldn't say it the, as though it's the only one. I just mean like right now The Chosen is the current media portrayal of Jesus's life that more people around the world are watching. And when you're tasked with telling that story, you better know Jesus as well as you can. So it's forced me to – I'm grateful for it. It's forced me to dig in even deeper into the Gospels.

54:54And I'm like, all right, what's the understanding behind this? and the thing that has really uh i think captured and changed us in many ways is like you just said the story of jesus is ultimately a story of humility i mean he humbled himself to become one of us and then while on earth kept saying they kept expecting to be the leader kept expecting him to be the messiah who's going to rescue them from their earthly oppression and he's like no no that's going to happen there's always going to be there's always going to be struggle there's always going to be pain there's always going to be oppression i'm not here to actually overthrow the romans go ahead and actually pay your taxes like and they were like whoa whoa okay so you're clearly not the messiah because you're not rescuing us and he's like no i'm rescuing you from spiritual death yeah from i'm here to give you heart salvation eternal salvation and so it was constantly humbling himself even in season five where we show the last supper and when jesus went to go wash their feet and they were like whoa whoa whoa whoa no no no that's actually offensive It's a borderline obscene for a teacher to wash his students' feet.

55:55And Peter says, I'll never let you do that. And Jesus says, well, then you can't have more part of me. And then Peter, oh, then wash everything. Sorry. Take it back. Wash my head. Exactly. So my point is, is the constant humility, the constant surrender, the constant death of self, the constant not my will, but yours. And when you, like, telling Jesus's story has in many ways informed our own story. The constant following of Jesus' story should in turn help you go, okay, what does it mean to look more like Jesus? So we have examples in the Gospels of almost everything you can face, Jesus faced in some way.

56:36So how do we face suffering? How do we face struggle? How do we face pain in our own story? Well, you can look at Jesus who on the cross faced the most pain that anyone can physically experience. The most oppression, the most betrayal, the most misunderstanding. I mean, how much do we hate being misunderstood? How many times have you heard someone recreate what you said and get it wrong? How many headlines have you seen about yourself? We see headlines all the time where I'm quoted. It's like Jenkins says, quote, this. And I'm like, that's not actually what I said. And no one was more misunderstood than Jesus.

57:14No one was more oppressed. No one had more physical pain. No one had more mental anguish. I mean, you see him in the Garden of Gethsemane. You see the loss of his friends. And every day he sees he's rejected. and how did he respond well he gives us the example of humility and surrender and forgive them father for they don't know what they're doing yeah like that is it's a cliche but but you know the trying to follow in the footsteps of jesus and walk in those footsteps and to live out what his story is what should inform your own story and so that's what we've learned through writing the show and working on the show and amanda with her bible study amanda handles the bible stage you've got one right actually right next to you yeah yeah i want to ask you about this um i gotta be honest like and i i'm really surprised i didn't know about this and so it made me feel like well we got to tell people about this because i uh yeah i think as you watch the show there's such a deep connection and obviously there are so many uh it's so scriptural in terms of there's so many verses there obviously there's uh yeah yeah these are all these are these are many of them are scenes that are taken directly from the bible and and then there's a bible study here yeah but there's a good but your point is there's a there's a large chunk of the show that isn't directly from scripture i mean we say that we say that right up front we're like look we are not the bible the bible is the bible um your bible hasn't changed since the show came out we're not replacing the bible we're not changing anything but we do the the majority of the content that you see anytime jesus says hello to someone that's not directly from scripture i mean he didn't say hello in scripture so we we are we are quick to point out to everybody it's a tv show it's inspired by the bible our goal is to put a spotlight on the bible but the bible study that you're talking about we do a bible study for each of the seasons that manda is the lead writer for and we often say um the bible study isn't a supplement to the show the show is a supplement to the bible study the show is designed to point you towards scripture and to put a spotlight onto scriptural truths.

59:14And so what the Bible study does is when you watch an episode of The Chosen, it can be a launching point for you to then explore deeper what this came from, what the context was, because our 21st century American interpretation of books that were written in the case of the Gospels in the first century through a Jewish mindset of Matthew, Mark, and John, and this the people that were reading this at the time were Jewish, understanding some of these references that we would never understand if someone wasn't here to kind of help us see the cultural context, the historical context of some of these teachings.

59:57That's what can really help bring it to life. And so the Bible study is like, now you've seen the show and you want to go deeper. You want to see some of this context. You want to see what these Bible verses mean. You want to see where the scene came from. And the Bible study helps you go deeper into that. And so that's the key with her writing of the Bible study and the devotional books we do. We also have some devotional books. And my writing of the show with my co-writers is the whole purpose is how do we accurately capture the character and intentions of Jesus in the Gospels, even in those scenes that aren't directly from Scripture.

1:00:30You know, I don't think a lot of people realize that you have a whole team of people and some theologians. Yeah. These are Bible experts that are weighing in on the whole series. Yeah, yeah. We've got a, we, we, you can watch on prime video or the chosen app where you can see our after shows, but also we have in the chosen app, Bible round tables where we take our Bible experts who've read the scripts and then watched the final version of the, of the show from our company and then come and see, which is the nonprofit that finances the production. They have their own team of global, you know, international scholars, because sometimes when you translate something from english into like another language some of the references can get confused and so sometimes translating it into another language requires a biblical expert to go here's how to communicate this truth to a person in a country that wouldn't necessarily understand the concept of a sacrificial lamb so or whatever some metaphor that jesus used that when it's translated into another language might get lost so we take this very very seriously and they watch the scripts and then they watch the final shows to let us know if there's anything that we know sometimes won't be directly from Scripture, but we never want it to violate or contradict the character and intentions of Jesus in the Gospels.

1:01:48Well, you know, I'm obviously a big food person, and so I appreciate, I mean, that's very accurate, I think, in terms of, you know, we've got all our pistachios and tabbouleh and hummus and tahini and figs and everything else there. Yes, and I, As someone who eats pretty clean, unless I'm cheating, which I do more than I should, but I eat pretty clean. Whenever we're doing those scenes, I am always like, I'm like, oh, give me the single ingredient foods. I've never been surrounded by so many. So, yeah, because I'm a bit of a health foodie guy, we make sure we get those accurate. It's so good. It's so good.

1:02:24Well, I want to encourage people to check out the Bible study, too. You know, when I think about the times of my life where I've grown the most, definitely some of them have been when I've done Bible studies. I mean, Bible studies, when you're going through the Bible together with a small group, it's so, so powerful for growth. You know, I know that when I was growing up, we always had church, then we had Sunday school. I don't even know if that Sunday school even exists anymore, actually. It's rare for adults. We did Sunday school and church and then Sunday night and then Wednesday night. Yeah, we were there, man.

1:02:59And so, but this is such a great way to grow. And so you have these for every season, the Chosen Interactive Bible Study. Where can people get these? Yeah, at our gift store through the app. And then it's on Amazon and most bookstores as well. So you can just go to Amazon. You just look up the Chosen Bible Study or Chosen Devotionals or whatever. But these are going to take you deeper. We even have kids versions so that kids can go deeper. So great. And we've got now coming out soon, depending on when you're listening to this, is The Chosen Adventures, which is our animated show. So we've got a chosen animated show that, if you remember season one, episode three, when Jesus and the little children.

1:03:32Oh, yeah. And there's those two. The little Joshua and Abby are our main characters. Yeah, they're the main characters of The Chosen Adventures through the animated show. So you start to see their lives and they interact with Jesus and interact with some of the stories. They intersect with Bible characters. We've got some of the different. Yeah. And so that's now on Prime or coming out on Prime and then eventually YouTube. But my point in bringing that up is now we've got materials for children as well so that you're as a family. Because some of the concepts in the Bible study, we dive a little deeper, right?

1:04:00There's a little bit more heavy, intense stuff and heavier theology that maybe some kids might not fully understand. So we've got kids versions as well so that we can help families just kind of dig in deeper. Because I remember when I was growing up like you, Sunday school, church, Sunday night church, Wednesday night church. I will freely admit that there were times when I did not get excited about church. Yeah, yeah. Did not get excited. My mom would try to get us to do a family devotional after supper, and we'd be like, here we go again, or whatever. And one of the coolest things that we ever hear is we were actually just at my son's football game the other day, and the away team, it was a Christian school, and the away fans recognized me when I was sitting in the stands.

1:04:39And the coolest thing was there was kids, like ages eight, nine, ten, who came up and And we're like, are you Dallas Jenkins? I said, yes. Can we get a selfie? And that eight and nine and 10 year olds truly like loving a show and engaging with a show. When I have parents telling me our kids are now asking questions about the Bible and wanting to read the Bible. And when they read it, they're like, oh, that's Matthew from the show. And that's and they ask questions. That's the coolest thing. And so the chosen adventures, the Bible studies, all that kind of stuff is is designed for the Josh, Dallas and Amanda when we were growing up.

1:05:11And sometimes we're bored. sometimes we're excited about it. We're like, all right, there's other ways that maybe can give a fresh perspective towards the same thing that can maybe help your family dive a little deeper if you want to. That's so great. You know, one of the things I follow you on social media or the chosen on social media, and it looks like it's just a great relationship between a lot of the people that are on the show. Would you share with us just maybe something that could be out of the ordinary, could be miraculous, non-miraculous, just something that's happened maybe behind the sees on the show that this has impacted you.

1:05:46Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, we really try to establish a culture of kindness and of family as much as possible. It's a big operation. And I really try as a leader to exemplify the teachings of Jesus as much as possible. Servant leadership. Before every season starts, I always give a speech about, let's just be good to each other. Let's just be good to each other. We have a mix of people. We have people from all faith backgrounds and people with no faith at all. We have non-believers working on the show. The coolest thing that happens that I would consider to be miraculous, and I won't name names because obviously these kinds of things are personal, but we have had multiple moments.

1:06:25And you've seen them portrayed when you've watched the show. You just wouldn't necessarily know it was behind it. Multiple moments where an actor is doing a scene, and it inevitably happens when they're quoting scripture, like when they're actually saying the words of scripture in the scene. or when the character of Jesus is calling them to follow or healing them of something or challenging them in some way. And we've had multiple times where in the scene, an actor, a performer will start crying almost uncontrollably. Overwhelmed when the scene didn't even call for it. And then just come up to me afterwards and say to me, like, I don't know where this is coming from, but I can't get through this.

1:07:05That wasn't my choice. Yeah, I can't get through this moment without weeping. Something's happening. and um and that's happened with mind-numbing regularity over the course of seasons just it's like we can almost always tell i can almost predict now which scenes are going to cause actors from any faith background or lack thereof to be overwhelmed by the words of scripture that's amazing and the moments of scripture reminder for us and as much as you care about the words that you write that it's actually typically the words of scripture that are actually yeah i mean it's always a reminder to me like no matter how hard i work nothing's going to work as well as the words of scripture and that's why the show is ultimately trying to spotlight those um make i want to be very clear i'm not trying to replay scripture i say it all the time in fact before you even watch frame one of the show that we have a we put up a disclaimer that says viewers are encouraged to read the gospels this is this is the point of the show but one of the coolest things is that multiple actors have had this experience but one in particular um reached out to me just last year and said i'm a believer now and i have you to thank for making the introduction and we talked about that phrase i have you to thank for making the introduction is there any greater thing you can hear any anything you'd more want on your tombstone then um you know here lies josh axe he made the introduction for people to jesus right and and then this person got uh baptized in our uh this just a few weeks ago in our in our sea of galilee set right before we filmed a uh okay it's a spoiler so yeah i was like okay yeah but a season six scene um before we filmed it but um got baptized.

1:08:37And we've often said, look, we love how much the show is impacting people around the world. We've heard from every country in the world people who've had their lives changed. We love hearing that. But our number one, what would you say, the bullseye of our ministry? The ground zero. The ground zero for what we believe is our calling is the people who we work with. Ground zero of the ministry of the show are the people who work on the show. The cast and crew and our staff that's who we are focused on because those are the ones in front of us that's our five loaves and two fish the people who watch the show we some of most of which will never meet god god can can can handle that but what but we've got in front of us is to love on um and and serve unconditionally the people in front of us and so the the stories of of faith that we've seen in our show people coming to faith or people loving jesus more knowing jesus more just within our own cast and crew has been far more impactful and far more, I would contend to be miraculous than some of the cool things that's happening with the growth of the show or the box office or the number of viewers or anything like that is seeing from the actual making of the show, people within the show, people tasked with portraying the greatest story ever told are being caught up in the greatest story ever told.

1:09:55That's so great. Right. When you guys are gone, hopefully a long, long, long time from now, what do you want people to say about the show? Well, our operating principle when we first set out to make it was, if you can see Jesus through the eyes of those who actually met him, you can be changed and impacted in the same way they were. If you can identify with the same questions, doubts, struggles that they did, then you can identify with the answer to their struggles, their questions, and their doubts. and so we hope that 100 years from now you know until jesus comes that um yes when we're if we're long long gone from this this earth that people when they watch the show are still seeing jesus through the eyes of those who met him and are experiencing the same change that that that those people did and that they can realize that the jesus of 2 000 years ago is the same jesus who wants a relationship with you now.

1:10:54Now, I'm not responsible for what God does in their hearts as a result of watching the show. Like Amanda said, we're gathering. Our job is to gather. But I do hope that people who've watched even one episode know a little bit more about Jesus than they did before they started watching, or maybe are a little bit more illuminated towards something in scripture that maybe they hadn't quite noticed before, like what's happened to us so many times. So that's the hope. That's great. I mean, what's been the best part of helping create the Chosen series and the Bible study and also what's been the hardest part.

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1:13:00Go to ManuKora.com slash axe to get 31 % off plus free gifts with your ManuKora starter kit today. um i would say i'll do the hardest part first i i would say that um it it has put us in the front lines i would say a lot of people are on the front lines in a lot of different ways in this world we need you know one body many parts um for us it's it's uh it seems to have put a bit of a bullseye on on the backs of our of of even our children that's been the hardest part for us personally um not that everything is blamed on spiritual warfare but there's a lot of spiritual warfare that we didn't have prior to this.

1:13:41I mean, the moment we started doing the show, it's like our medical bills. I mean, it was like 20 years of living before that point. All of it combined didn't come close to the first year of doing the show. And it's been just every year since then. I mean, this year, the show has never been more successful and we've never had more attacks and pain and suffering, whether it's emotional or physical. And that's not just for our family. That's for a lot of the families. When you come to work on The Chosen, we just... joke and we call it, okay, there's a chosen, the chosen curse. And we don't believe that there's an actual curse, but we do believe there's an actual bullseye.

1:14:16And so if you kind of come close to what the Lord is doing in this space here, there's a lot of spiritual warfare. So that's the hardest part. Maybe the answer would always be the, would also be the best part because when you're on the front lines, you are getting to hear the stories of people being radically changed. And to know that you're just stewarding a thing that God is using in that way, it absolutely makes it worth it and and it gets you out of the dumb things of every day like you're you're hearing about people's real life change and and and stories of rescue then and what god is doing around the world and then you just go oh this thing i was worried about is so dumb like it just it reprioritizes and and i and i feel like it's it's um it's allowed us to be very focused on what matters this side of heaven because we are hyper-focused on helping more people get there, you know?

1:15:08And so it's just, it's so focused us that I would say that the good is the same as the hard and it all works together to go, yeah, we're in a war and I'm glad to be in it and I'm glad to have a role in it and we just want to steward it well. I would say both things are When our family knows, all four of our kids and our in-laws now, because our daughter got married earlier this year, but they all know that The Chosen has brought on some major challenges. But it does feel, it does seem to go away. It does seem to feel better when we're told my life changed because of it. You know, my, uh, when, when you're in Brazil and someone walks up and shows you on their phone, their Google translate, you know, the, the, the, the story of how they identified with this character and felt seen and understood enough.

1:15:59Now, now know Christ because of it. It's like, it's, it's, it's worth it. It's, it's worth every moment. Yeah. Yeah. That's so powerful. You know, one of the things that I have really loved about the show as well as this, you get to see in real life, these people going all in, all in. And, you know, Revelations, I think it's three, but early on talks about sort of lukewarm Christianity. And have you had anybody share with you that just how it's caused them to go more, you know, absolutely all in any examples of that? Oh, I mean, that's probably the most common is someone saying, I have attended church most of my life, or I have read the Bible before, or I've been, they may not use the word lukewarm, but I've been, you know, I've read the Bible, but I haven't fully engaged, I haven't fully, you know, dove in 100%.

1:16:52Or even I fell away, or had church hurt of some kind, or, you know, some bitterness that was holding me back, or, you know, a lot of that. But yeah, they'll say, I've never read the Bible more than I have in the last year because the show prodded me towards the Bible, prodded me towards a relationship with Christ. And so, yeah, I've actually heard the phrase all in before. People go like, I feel like I'm all in now. I'm diving in my relationship with God in a way that I never have before. And so - Our Christmas special is one of my favorite things called The Messengers. We did a Christmas special a few years ago, and it talks about how these first disciples were the messengers of the good news, the messengers of the story of Jesus.

1:17:41And we have the shepherds. But then also, so were then the early church in Acts. And there's this phrase that is, we are the messengers now. And it's to see that for every generation, you're living in a time that's very specific to God's design for you. so nothing that's happening in the world is outside of his control nothing is too big for the church of christ to speak into to to work inside of and so the idea that you were born for right now and you're the messenger now has been a really um uh exciting and igniting thing for people who are who are watching the show just being re-inspired to get back into the culture and with the good angels were back back in those days they would refer to angels as messengers right i got a message so that's why we called it the messengers is mary and joseph get a message and then the shepherds see it and they start spreading the word and the birth of the early church they're they're messengers and we're we're now 2 000 years later that's us it's amazing we have that opportunity why do you think that jesus is still the most uh polarizing controversial figure that that there's ever been you know i even think about you know what's in light of what's going on in the world, everything from assassinations, what's going on in Israel and Palestine, all of these very, very – Jesus is at the center of the conversations of so many of these things.

1:19:04Why do you think that is? Well, Jesus gets co-opted a lot by multiple sides of political debates. Some sides like to quote the scripture when it suits them, right? We quote scripture to defend justice, for example, like criminal justice reform or whatever. And then others will use it to defend universal health care. Others will use it to, like, we like to pick and choose. Which theologies we think Jesus would really back. Right. Yeah. And so why is Jesus still divisive? Well, because he said he would be divisive. I mean, he actually said like, That's true. He says like, I came here with a sword.

1:19:40He's like, families will be divided. And the reason is because on one hand, yes, he showed an example of compassion and empathy and love. And he welcomed people. He welcomed all the people. Yes. But on the other hand, he says, yeah, but to truly reach me, to truly reach the Father, to truly reach heaven, you have to give up everything. You have to be willing to die to yourself and acknowledge that you are not God. You are not the chairman of the board of your life. and that that i think there's two things that really cause division is one is we want to reject anyone who's telling us to to give up something about us much less everything about us like your instincts your desires are not all godly like you're born into a you're born into sin you're born into selfishness you are born and and most of us live um when we when we seek the things that are going to give us immediate pleasure when we seek the things that we want, when we seek the desires of the flesh.

1:20:40And then someone tells us, I mean, think of how often like even people who aren't even doing it from a Christian perspective, but like those, those court shows like Judge Judy, like it's like, there are a lot of people who like hate court shows or advice shows simply because they're telling you fix your life. Stop doing the bad thing. Like you are not your own God. You are not in control of your life. Like, like stop, like stop being selfish. Right. That's a message that a lot of people don't want to hear. Now the second thing is though is that um, we do fight for territory we do as human beings love to fight for Ownership of a thing or of a person and so you see it when there's an assassination attempt when there's a tragedy when there's a Success how many people try to claim it as their own and we've gotten really tribal like it's now uh, we've gotten to the point where and this wasn't like this even 50 years ago but where you identify as being part of a team and when you're on that team if if if if you say anything or someone in your team says something that another team might say then that's immediately oh wow you're betraying us you must be on that team it's like all or nothing now or never yeah that's what we i call that the like the in politics and in social media it's the all or nothing now or never crowd i mean i'm sure you've said things on your podcast that someone's like i liked you i thought you i could trust you i said things you know a few days ago and they didn't A lot of people are like, yeah, it happens.

1:22:02Yeah. And look, you have been a great presence in our life and you have helped us and we're friends and you've said things that I've been like, oh, I don't know that I agree with that or that wasn't my experience. And I still can like you and be your friend and you can be wrong. But I'm saying I can be wrong. But my point is, there are some people who that's not good enough. No, no. We can't just be friends and disagree. if you disagree you must be evil you must be on another team and only the people on my team are good and ironically enough that's what was taking place 2 000 years ago more than almost any other time in history when jesus came to earth it was so tribal and everything was us versus them and literally the romans were saying we are going to turn everybody into one tribe our tribe the roman tribe we're going to change your name we're going to change the name of your province we're going to change your way of life, your culture, and make it Roman.

1:22:59And so nowadays, that's what we see is, for whatever reason, when it comes to Christianity, when it comes to the teachings of Jesus, when it comes to spirituality in general, people want to claim it for their own team. And if you disagree with anything on the team, then you must be an enemy of God, right? And so you see it in politics, you see it in health, you see it, oh, I mean, and so, again, why is that? I don't know. I think sometimes God allows human beings to kind of pursue their own fleshly desires so that they can then turn to him when it doesn't lead to anything other than pain and suffering and dispute and war.

1:23:39Well, and the other piece of the polarizing is not only do we co-opt it, but it also is that, as we mentioned, he divides in the sense that he looks right at his own disciples and said, who do you say I am? All these other people are saying who I am, but who do you say I am? And I think there is in the human soul. I think people know that there's an answer required of them. I think he would be polarizing in an individual without even the tribes, because it's a, who do you say he is? Do you think he is who he said he was? Or do you think he was a crazy person? And we all have to face the same question.

1:24:10So I think we would be, I think he's hard. He's not just loving and welcoming. He also kind of demands of us. And no one comes to the Father but through me. And so people love to, we love all the love teachings and all that Jesus was so compassionate. And the chosen, like, look, I love portraying the loving and compassionate side of Jesus, because I believe it's loving and compassionate, even in his message of repentance and surrender. But he does say, I'm the guy. Like, I am the way, the truth, and the life. I am the way not one way or I'm I'm one of the ways I'm I'm a way I'm the way and ultimately when you come down to it when you have to face that question and you realize oh wait a second he's demanding surrender he's demanding I bend the knee and a lot of people don't want to bend the knee yeah when you get to heaven what is going to be your first question for Jesus um who was right about that fight we had last week yeah yeah can you please help Amanda realize that she was wrong um no jonathan rumi actually stole my answer once he was asked a similar question um is and his answer was how'd i do and he was asking how'd i do you know portraying you but it's a it's it me it's a has a double meaning how did i do at portraying you and how did i do at following you you know and what do you want to hear more than anything else well done and good and faithful servant yeah and so i will when i get a chance to to meet christ i will kind of come in going like i did seven seasons 56 hours of tv portraying your life like and i i just so badly don't want him to be like really that one episode what do you think what are you even thinking you know i gotta be like i i'd be i'd be thrilled with just a it's pretty good it's pretty pretty pretty good yeah that's so great because you did ultimately point people to the bible and that's the ultimate source of truth and inspiration but episode seven of season whatever that was a little a little janky but i i will ask like how did i do like because i i do want to hear and i don't think he'll wait for my question i think i think when we're granted you know acceptance into eternity that's the answer to any question you could ever have yeah is is okay i'm yours forever right and so um yeah but i will ask so how did i how do i got a lot of people i got to ask that question because we portray a lot of yeah a lot of those guys up there yeah yeah when i meet uh i don't i don't want simon peter to come running for me and going like dude way off that was what what are you doing?

1:26:37I wasn't like that. So no, but yeah, but I definitely, um, I assume it's the same, same for you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to imagine asking how we did when we're in his presence. I would, I'm going to be distracted by how he did. That's a better answer. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Um, last question. What's next? Well, let me say, I am really excited about some, I watched, uh, something you guys did maybe about a year ago that kind of went through doing acts going back i mean doing a lot of other stories from the bible yeah but but yeah what's what's next so as of right now as as we're talking um a mini series that we're doing with prime video called joseph of egypt about you know joseph and the dream coat and all that stuff that's being filmed right now so um and we're while we're filming we're still in the process of fine-tuning the script so i'm not the actual showrunner of that show but i am the final say I'm overseeing all of these projects, these chosen projects.

1:27:36So that's being filmed. So it's an eight-part miniseries of the life of Joseph from the book of Genesis. And that's the story. That was before the law came in. That was before Moses. That was before we get a chance to see God's story even before the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt. The Chosen Adventures, like I mentioned, that animated series is coming out here right now. and we are developing we're in some discussions of a few other Bible stories but what I want to do when I'm done with season 7 of The Chosen after I nap for a couple months is we want to get into the Moses story so we have a three season show that we're planning on called Book of Moses which is the whole story of Moses and the journey of the Israelites from Egypt and then when that's done that's three seasons I do want to then get back into the continuation of this story the book of acts and the birth of the early church and so some people like why aren't you doing acts next i mean we want to continue i'm like i think all of us need a break from each other for a bit i think i want to get back i want to but but but leaving that aside i really do want to uh because we reference in in in season five of the show and in season five this bible study we talk about like the last supper and how the last supper the passover and what that means and how they when they were celebrating the passover the significance of the Moses story and they reference it quite a bit.

1:28:59And so we want to kind of take a moment to go back and show you the precursor to Jesus and the why of Jesus. I'm incredibly excited about the Exodus series. Did you ever watch the Daily Wire? They did their Exodus with Jordan Peterson. That was a great, I thought that they did a great job with some of what they did there. Last question. I have a friend who's Jewish who knew I was going to interview and And we wanted me to ask you a question. Why don't you cast David to have red hair? Okay. So that is a fair question, although there are different interpretations of what color he might have actually been and what that description might have been.

1:29:37So it's possible David had traditionally. I actually kind of went round and round about this. There's just a lot of different interpretations of that, of the word that they use for it. It's ruddy or something. I think it's, isn't it ruddy? Ruddy is one of the words. And like, it's just, again, there's lots of different interpretations of whether it just was referring to kind of a, of a dark skin that looked a little different from the other skins. There's a lot of interpretations of David, but I thought Ginger. We chose from who? Ginger David, I'm not sure. I think that might've been a little, a little bit hard for people to.

1:30:14It would be a very specific thing in the casting room. So we, you know, you get a pool of actors you choose. Well, yeah, I think ultimately who's going to best portray the heart? Who's going to be the best person to portray David's personality? It makes sense. We did actually go back and forth on that. What is it? And studied it. And it's debatable enough that we went with the dark here. Makes sense. Well, I'm sure whoever you guys cast. Well, obviously we go back in time. Well, we see Jesus. Yeah, we see David in season two. He's taking the loaves of bread from the priestly table. And season three, when we see that one psalm written.

1:30:49during the feeding of the walking on water. Women's dancing. Wasn't the woman who was going to perform, this is when John the Baptist was going to be... Yes, and then we also see David... The loss of the baby. Yes, when Bathsheba loses the baby. And also when they're walking on water and we see the writing of the psalm that talks about footprints on the sea. And then in season five, when we contrast the triumphal entry of Jesus and David, the different entries. And then we'll get a glimpse of David in season six, which we just filmed. Excited. So David shows up throughout. And then there's also that great show, House of David on Prime, that Wonder Project made.

1:31:35My good friend John Irwin and I actually consulted on that show as well. Also not redhead. They didn't go with the redhead. But yeah. One day. Yes. I love it though. Well, I'm so appreciative for you guys. It's a, again, I think that the show has really blessed me, blessed my family. I know that there's so many people have been really impacted by it in a really positive way. And yeah, so just so grateful for you guys and even come on the show. So it's an honor. So thanks so much. Well, and you've been, like we said, we want your viewers to know that you do practice what you preach. You've been helpful.

1:32:08And I remember when I mentioned to another friend of ours that we were going to be talking to you and we talked about how you helped our daughter um just on your own free time and and and she she said yeah he does that he he helps people um and so uh we really appreciated that and we have learned a lot from your from your show and from your writings and um and from your own personal help and uh so yeah we're very much a believer in mind body and spirit um that that god is the god of all of these things and these all go together and so uh we appreciate what you do. We're all doing this together.

1:32:42We're all trying to just bring the kingdom, your kingdom come. And so anything we can do to be part of that, we want to be. Amen. Well, I love it. Well, thanks so much, guys, for coming on. I just want to say, hey, thanks, everybody, for watching. I want to encourage you to go out and watch The Chosen series all the way through, or at least just start with episode one. And when you watch it, really try and connect with the person of Jesus, the disciples, putting yourself in their shoes. Let it strengthen your faith. Again, for me and my wife, Chelsea, our family. It has been such a powerful way for us to connect more deeply with Jesus, understand the Bible in the context of what was going on in that day.

1:33:21So I encourage you to go and download the app as well. You can check out a lot in there. And also don't forget, while you are watching it, you can also get the study guide as well. And this is found on Amazon.com. You can get a lot of places by Amazon.com here, the chosen Bible study. Amazon.com. Just call it Amazon. Just Amazon. Just Amazon. You can get it there as well. You're revealing your age. Yes, that's right. And so anyway, thanks for watching. And if you're watching on YouTube, let us know what was maybe one of the biggest things that really struck you about today's interview, something Dallas said or Amanda said.

1:33:54We'd love to hear from you there as well. And thanks for watching. And by the way, the number one thing you can do to support the channel is subscribe. Thanks for subscribing. And thanks for sharing. There's a lot of people I think that could really benefit and be blessed by so much of just the personal content that was shared today by Dallas and Amanda. So thanks so much for watching. We'll see you on the next episode.

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