What I Wasn’t Taught in Medical School About Vaccines | Dr. Joel Gator Warsh

21:43Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:It seems like from the research that we've got that it decreases your risk of hospitalization, it decreases your risk of death. But we just don't know anything long term. So we recommend it for you, but we just don't know the other. And that's fine. Like that's honest. You don't know the side effects 10 years from now. You don't know the side effects of things you haven't seen. And people can be made to get it. They can be recommended to get it and they can decide. But as soon as you start forcing anything on people, especially something that's new, it just makes no sense. And I think people realize that.

22:11Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:They realize that the discussion on natural immunity made no sense. And so now they just questioned everything. And now they're like, okay, well, if that's what you're saying about the COVID vaccine, then what about all the rest of the vaccines? And we're now sitting on this other side of the pendulum where now there's this complete lack of trust. And complete, I just think there's two different worlds when it's COVID. But it's like, oh, you have this medical establishment that says COVID vaccine is great and save millions of lives and save trillions of dollars. And then you have other people saying it's the worst things ever and it's killing more people than it's helping.

22:41Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And it's very hard as just an average person to know, like, what do you trust? Who do you listen to? How do you trust the CDC when you're seeing all your friends? Can I tell you, there's a verse in the Bible that Jesus says, and he says, like somebody's asking, how do you know the truth? Or who do I know who to trust? And Jesus says, by their fruit, you will recognize them. By their results, by somebody like, who do you know who you should listen to from investing advice? Warren Buffett, he's got great fruit in his life. Look at what he's done. So you're listening to those sort of people. And I think it's a similar thing.

23:16It makes me, so I used to teach vaccine lectures in my clinic and really dove deep on this. And this is, I couldn't do it online because the stuff would, if a question anything would get banned. So I did a lot of in-person lectures. And one of the things I remember looking at is the vaccine schedule in the United States versus Japan in countries like Sweden. So so so here are these numbers and you're going to be familiar with these. But in by the age of 18 in the United States, and by the way, sometimes these numbers differ and yours might differ a little bit here. But by the age of 18, the average child in the U.S.

23:53is getting at least 57 doses, but in many cases, 80 to 90 cumulative shots. In Japan, it's around 12. In Sweden, it's around 10 to 12. So Japan and Sweden have two of the longest and not the longest lifespan of all countries in the entire world. The U.S. ranks around 49, very, very around 50. OK, who do you think we should be following the advice of when it comes to some of these issues? I mean, and the other thing about Japan and Sweden is they space them out a lot more. And most of them are after the age of two, not before. And so I'm curious your thoughts. I'm sure you've seen this research on the difference between the U.S., Japan and Sweden.

24:38Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Sure. Yeah, I mean, definitely. So, I mean, there's no question I made the joke in the book. Like if there's a gold medal for giving the most vaccines, America gets it. you know we we for sure recommend the most and i think in general we have the strongest recommendations so it's it's it's not like physically required but it's basically required to go to school for most people in america so of the vaccines that we're strongly recommending it's by far the highest now when you talk about japan other places first of all i think we're just very arrogant in america that it's like we're the best way we're the only way we know best what there are all sorts of other countries that do all sorts of other things especially when you look at Some of the vaccines they give them at different times.

25:13Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Not every place requires them. So those numbers are more of the recommended schedule. They still, most of these countries have them all, and most of the kids still get all of them. So we get very similar rates, but they have a much less stringent requirement in some of these countries. They certainly have a lot lower numbers than for what we need for school. But still almost every country in the world has a very similar availability of vaccines. So it's not like we're doing 50 in 12 different ones or 15 different ones and they don't have them available, just they don't require them as much. Not everybody gets it.

25:45Exactly. And that's one of the things I noticed here about Japan and Sweden. Yeah, they're not required.

25:49Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Yeah, so the things like hepatitis B are not always required. Chickenpox is not required everywhere. So there are a few that we recommend or require in our schedule that they don't require. And one of the other things I noticed in Japan is with shots like MMR, if people do get them, they're not all together in one shot. Why would that make a difference? And why would they do that in Japan and we wouldn't do that in the United States? So Japan's weird. Is there something they know that we don't know? I don't know. I mean, it's a weird question because that came up before. So they do the measles, rubella.

26:17Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:They separate out the mumps. They use a different strain of the mumps, which had a much higher rate of encephalitis than the one that we use. So they pulled it off the market because of those encephalitis. They put it back on, which they have the measles, rubella, and the mumps is just a recommended but not required shot. So they still do it, but they have a different version, a different shot. So I don't know if there's a good reason specifically why their one is better than ours or different. It's just different. And that's just what they do. But they certainly do it later. So that's a big thing.

26:43Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:They recommend them later than we do. I think it's 15 months is the first one, or maybe it's two years, if I'm remembering. Yeah, yeah. I read around two years on there. You know, when we talk about longevity, we usually think about diet, exercise, and supplements. But what about your skin? Your skin is your body's largest organ, and keeping it strong and resilient is key to how you age, both inside but even outside. That's why I love OneSkin. Their entire mission is centered on skin longevity and their science-backed approach sets them apart from anything else out there. Their OS1 peptide works at the cellular level to improve skin health, reducing the buildup of senescent or zombie cells that contribute to wrinkles, sagging, and inflammation.

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28:16You have an immune system that's more dealing with acute issues, like acute infections, like a cold or a flu, or a basic inflammation response. And then we have the part of your immune system that's dealing with more long-term chronic conditions, things like cancer and those. And I know sometimes there's some overlap in what deals with what, but talk to me a little bit about maybe the difference between these immune systems or your Th1 immune system, your Th2 immune system. And is there any concern potentially, even philosophically, on if vaccines can maybe cause one to overreact and one to basically react differently over time?

28:57Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Yeah, I think kind of what you're getting at is immune activation or affecting the immune system in some way, which going back a little bit again, from modern medicine, the basic stance is a vaccine, you're giving it to the body, it's creating an immune response. and that's a good thing because you're just protecting against a virus or bacteria and it doesn't really cause any sort of downstream negative effects or doesn't really affect the way that your immune system is developing in any way because you certainly when you're born your immune system's functioning in a certain way and as you're getting older things are getting more balanced and and the question is if you are getting all these vaccines are you pushing your immune system or affecting your immune system in a way where it's promoting creating more antibodies and more reactivity and more risk for allergies and autoimmune conditions.

29:46Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Medicine says no, but there's a lot of research and a lot of theory around the fact that maybe because we're doing so many vaccines and we're doing every couple of months and you're pushing your immune system more towards this immune memory, antibody, B cell, memory cell version that you're creating or promoting for some people, maybe some susceptible population, more risk of autoimmune conditions. And I don't think that's unreasonable. I think it's very reasonable when you look at how the balance between the immune system and how it's affected over the first few years. It's not unreasonable to think that maybe we're pushing things towards that immunity, which was never meant to be.

30:31Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:I don't know. I mean, there certainly is a lot of doctors that take care of patients that are vaccinated, unvaccinated. And it seems like the kids that are unvaccinated don't have as high of levels of some of these things. It's just not been rigorously studied. So we just don't know. But the doctors that do take care of both all say the same thing, which is the kids that are unvaccinated seem to have lower rates of cold and flus and autoimmune conditions and asthma and allergies. It doesn't mean that they have zero. Like some kids still have it, even if they have no vaccines. But it seems like the rates are much lower.

31:00Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:But we don't have the evidence to prove that because nothing's ever studied things that way, which is unfortunate. Like you would think they would have unvaccinated versus vaccinated studies. You would think they would look at databases and they never did it. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. Is it crazy or is it done on purpose? I mean, that's the question, right? I think that's the question is, did they not take these, these, did they not look and realize that the numbers are so different? They don't want to publish that research or just nobody look because we're just assuming that vaccines are safe.

31:25Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:I don't know the answer. I don't want to put motive in people's heads. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know we know that pharmaceutical companies have have strong motives. Listen, there's been time and time again, you look at the largest lawsuits of all time in the United States, and those have been against pharmaceutical companies for lying and knowing that certain drugs have killed people and them still keeping them on the market. So we know there is some level of, you know, lack of virtue on the part of certain people that have been operating some of these companies. You know, I remember somebody posing the question many years ago about how prevalent autism is in the Amish community versus not.

32:08And I used to take care of a lot of, I grew up in Ohio. And anyways, and even now in Tennessee, I took care of a lot, a large Amish community. And so we would, you know, see that. And the other one is, one, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And another one would be, you know, when I look at the healthiest group of people in terms of a profession that I've seen, and part of this might be a little bit of bias, but I don't think so. I came out of the chiropractic community and the natural medicine and nutritionist community. Okay. Those are like my degrees, my education. And when I look at chiropractors and naturopaths and how many of them have their kids vaccinated and how healthy their kids are, they have probably the lowest rate.

32:50That group of people and probably Amish of all populations. Now, I don't have any data on that. This is just me looking at it. But I think most people, when I say that, they're like, oh, yeah, I know that. most chiropractors, most naturopaths, they don't get their kids vaccinated. And I tend to think when I look at the chiropractic kids and naturopathic kids, they're very, very healthy. Generally, of course, you have outliers, right?

33:13Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And that's the sentiment that basically everybody who sees both says. So the question then becomes, okay, so those kids are getting fewer of these other conditions. First of all, let's figure out if that's true, because it's not that hard to figure out if that's true. And that's really important information, because if it actually is true, we need to know that because you need to find a balance somewhere in the middle. Like you don't necessarily want nobody to get vaccinated maybe. And then all these diseases start coming roaring back and then kids start dying of measles or other things. I think that's medical, the medical establishment's concern.

33:43Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:But at the same time, no doctor wants to be giving kids asthma or allergies or autoimmune conditions. Like that's not the point. They just don't realize that that might be a side effect or some sort of there might be some sort of correlation there. And if it can be proven that that is true, then wouldn't we want to study that and say, hey, okay, we're increasing kids' risks of asthma by getting all these vaccines. Why? What ingredient? What's happening? What schedule? Could we change that? Could we figure out, okay, this is the ingredient that's increasing your risk. This is the part of the schedule that's doing that.

34:12Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Maybe we could change things. Maybe we could remove some of the vaccines. Maybe we could space them out more. Maybe we don't need them. Maybe we remove an ingredient or change an ingredient. You want to protect as many kids as you can while decreasing your side effects. There's nothing controversial about that. But if you just assume the thing is safe, you're never going to study it. And companies, they're not going to study their products. Why would a pharmaceutical company do a big trial now, spend billions of dollars to potentially find a problem with their product to have to pull it off the market?

34:42Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Like, they're not going to do that. Why would they do that? We have to do it. The CDC or some sort of organization has to say, we are going to look at these things for safety. We're going to push back. We're going to make sure these things are safe. We're going to make sure that we're doing this the best possible way. and we're not going to be arrogant. We're going to have some humility. We're going to assume that we don't have the best vaccines or products that we're ever going to have in humanity and let's have safer, better products in a decade from now. And we can do that. We can do that. Or we can study them and it comes out on the other side.

35:12Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:They actually have no relationship to autoimmune conditions and autism and other things. And that is the research that parents would actually want to feel confident to do vaccines. One of the reasons why I trust you, Joel, is that you're willing to have a conversation about it. You know, and I think about the things that I'm passionate about or feel strongly about. I feel really strongly about natural medicine. I feel really strongly about my faith. And if I really care about somebody, I want their best interest, and if they ask me about my faith and ask hard questions, I'm actually excited. I want to talk to them about it.

35:42I want to explain it. I want to, and then I'm also open to hearing their opinion because my mind, even spiritually, in terms of certain theological ideas, has changed over the last 15 to 20 years, you know? And the same with natural medicine. I love it. But today, when I approach, I remember getting in a debate with a nurse practitioner. This was, you know, 10 years ago. And asking some hard questions. And she was so irate and so mad that I would even question or ask a question about it. You know, and that just made me even more so question that person's, what are they hiding?

36:17Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Right. It doesn't make any sense that medicine has taken such a hard line with vaccines. and there's such a pushback and such an anger when you ask questions and the science has said, oh, this thing has been debunked. And you talk about the craziness of medicine and where we've gone to, like you talk about the autism, you talk about autism and vaccines, and there's nothing more crazy or dogmatic than that from both sides. I mean, any sort of problem online and you talk about autism and everybody just goes, vaccines are the worst thing ever. Vaccines are causing autism. It's the most, the biggest problem.

36:49Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And I've taken care of kids that have autism and never had a vaccine so it certainly can't be the only factor i think it's very there are many things that that we call autism and there are many factors involved but at the same time nothing has ever shocked me more in my life than when you actually go through the vaccine research when it comes to autism i i was always taught the sciences that old things have been debunked you hear it so confidently discussed you know somebody brings it up a secretary kennedy brings it up and what are talking about? It's been debunked. The CDC website says, you know, we have all these great studies.

37:20Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And I thought when I was doing the book that I guess for the book, I mean, really what I wanted to try to do was a very balanced approach and kind of look at both sides and have a discussion. And so for the for the autism section, what I thought I was going to find was all this research that really good research that showed that vaccines don't cause autism on great studies. We'd have a lot of them. But I also know because I've been in this space for a while that there are some other points of view out there and there are some not as great studies but there's certainly some things that maybe point to some correlation that have discussed it that that kind of are seen as fringe i was like okay here here's the the great research that we have and here's the other side it's not as settled as people want to make it out but you know here's the good research why we saying that when you actually go look there is nothing there is no research on vaccines and autism at all the only things that there is is research on mmr and thimerosal and thimerosal is the mercury component, which isn't even vaccines anymore.

38:15Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:There is no study, zero on all vaccines. There's nothing on vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids. We give them all sorts of vaccines in that first year. There are really no studies on hepatitis B, DTaP, PCV, rotavirus. There are all these vaccines that we do, and there are no studies that look at them all. There's no prospective trials. It's just MMR. So the reason why people say it so dogmatically is there's nothing that's ever proven that vaccines cause autism definitively. So therefore, vaccines don't cause autism. It's this circular, weird thinking that doesn't make any sense. They don't have the research, so they said that it's not proven.

38:49Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:It's never been actually studied, so we actually have no idea. So you certainly can say that vaccines cause autism because you'd have to have good research for that. We don't have that. We have very little. We have some okay research on MMR, like pretty good research on that. That's it. I'll share a couple of things with you. One was when I was in full-time practice, one of the things that was convincing to me that there it could at least be a causative factor was I had this, um, it was actually a foster care parent and they brought in their child and this was around, uh, the child was just around one years old and, um, they brought in the child and, and we were taking care of them.

39:26We did nutrition, did this, uh, this family were, um, we were working with, you know, they were both had diabetics needed to lose weight young couple. You know, they were one of these couples where they were in their twenties and they were just very sick. So helping them with their health. And they again adopted this, this child. And at one years old, one day, after they were coming in a couple of months, they came in once and then the child went from being so like, anytime I would look at him, he was so active, so engaging, laughing. And then they brought him in and there was just this glaze over his eyes.

39:56And he was so, he totally lost that sort of that light and that connection engagement. And I said, what's happened is he said, I said, something's wrong here. And they're like, well, he just got his, you know, shots a few days ago. And they said, he hasn't just been been right since. And ever since then, in taking care of that family, he never, you know, he wasn't didn't break free that I saw them for another year. And, and there are things like that. And by the way, my story of that one occasion. if you go online, there are actually probably tens of thousands of moms or OK, maybe more than tens of thousands who have seen that.

40:34And the thing I think that I find the most frustrating is that most doctors will just write that off and just say that's all in your head or that's not true. And I think that's why so many families out there are really angry, really frustrated or distrusting in the medical community. And my belief about vaccine and autism is this. It's not the only factor. And I say this because I think it's very connected to the way that I practice functional medicine. When I have a patient come in with diabetes, diet's a big component. But their genetics is a component. Their cortisol levels from being in high-stress environments, that's a big component.

41:17There are loads and loads of other components. And I think it's a combination. Do I think they contribute? I do. But I also think their genetics and their epigenetics can contribute. I think their diet is a part. I think if they've been on antibiotic drugs, I think there's studies on acetaminophen or NSAIDs contributing the toxic load from glyphosate. So I think this is this major cumulative effect. And it's just one of those things that's contributing.

41:42Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:I agree. And I think that the thing that's so frustrating when you step back and when you really look into it is there are just so many stories like this. Same basic story of my kid was, I think, healthy and happy, was developing normally, went in to get their vaccines. And then that afternoon, the next day, things change. Now, whether that is correct or incorrect, I don't know. Whether it's anecdote or not, we don't know. But when you have thousands of the same stories, hundreds of thousands of the same stories, you should listen to that and take that as data. If you get a vaccine today and you have a heart attack this afternoon, that doesn't mean that you weren't gonna have a heart attack anyways, and it doesn't have anything to do with the vaccine.

42:20Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:But if hundreds of thousands of people get a vaccine this morning, have a heart attack this afternoon, you damn well better look at the vaccine and say, could it be causing this thing? And it's the same thing with autism. You have the same story with these parents that are called fringe or anti-vaxxers if they think it's the vaccine. And you're like, what are you talking about? These people literally took their kid to get vaccines. They're not anti-vax. They just feel like this is one of the contributors, if not the cause, for their kid. And we need to take that seriously. And we need to say, this is good information.

42:48Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:This is good data. They may or may not be right. But we should not dismiss this when you hear the same thing over and over again, because maybe there is a subset of the population, a genetic factor, which makes you more susceptible. Maybe it's the last step among a cascade of other things that pushes somebody over the edge. Maybe there's something to do with their kidneys or I don't know, whatever, there could be many things. But there are too many stories that are the same to just call it fringe or crazy, especially when you look at the research that does not exist. And you say it's been debunked, it's settled, which doesn't make any sense anyways.

43:21Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:But you certainly can't say it about this. And I know that if doctors looked at what the actual research was, they would not think it settled because I did not know this. and I am very involved in integrative medicine. And so I'm talking about vaccines a lot. And I did not know what the research actually was until I went to do this book because we're told so often that it's so settled. There's so much research. And when you go look, you're like, that can't be it. Didn't make any sense. Like I did not believe it. I read almost every single book. I read Paul Offit's book and Peter Hotez's book and all these people that are very pro-vaccine.

43:52Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:They don't have anything more. If there was more, it would be there. And it doesn't make any sense that they haven't taken any databases, big ones that we have, and said, okay, let's look at the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated kids and see which ones have more autism. And how many vaccines do you have? How could that not exist? It's so easy to do. Yeah, exactly. It's not that difficult. And that's why everyone knows that someone's trying to hide something. Or they don't want to know because it would disrupt their, you know, all of the profits coming in via these pharmaceutical companies. And we know the vaccines are a what a massive driver and chunk of the entire pharmaceutical industry.

44:33Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And what a concern that's just growing amongst parents. And if you are the medical community, you need that research to say, look, they do not cause autism. Here's the really good prospective study. We've taken 100 ,000 kids. We follow them forward. We've given these this group of kids wanted to do vaccines. This one didn't. I mean, I know their ethics, so it's really hard to do it blinded. But you could certainly do it open where people can choose if they want to be vaccinated or not. and you can follow them forward and there's still going to be some confounders. But at least you can see kids that are unvaccinated versus kids that are vaccinated.

45:02Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Is there a difference in autism? You could do it very easily. You can certainly do it with databases. None of these studies are perfect, but let's see what it shows because if it doesn't show any difference, that's going to be really good information to give people more confidence. But if it does show a difference, again, do we not want to know that? Do we not want to know there is something going on and something to do with vaccines that is contributing to this? Let's figure out what that is. So maybe it's one of the ingredients, but we can change it. Like, why do we want to give kids any sort of condition if we don't need to?

45:31Yeah, yeah. You know, another thing that I thought about with this is that when you look at, even though it's not a traditional vaccine, the mRNA, I know so many young men who got the shot and then developed myocarditis. In fact, my own uncle is in his 50s, completely healthy, no issues, and died because of that. And it was right after his second booster of the Pfizer. And so, again, this is something I've experienced in my own family. And here's another thing I know from, and so it's like, if that caused an issue, how can we not even think that maybe there's at least the slightest possibility where we should do research?

46:12Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:We saw it in the last four or five years, like all these issues that have come, and it's not fringe. I mean, we know it. Even statistically, like it's been proven, medical establishment agreed, like it can cause some of these things. So why do we assume that it can't cause other things? Just like with the rest of the schedule, it's been proven to cause seizures. It's been proven to cause encephalitis, inflammation of the brain. So why would it cause other things? Guillain-Barre. It can do these things. Again, they would say, okay, it's very rare. And fine, let's assume that it is very, very rare.

46:40Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:it's one in a million, one hundred thousand, whatever the number is quoted. Even if it can do it in one in a hundred thousand, if it could do it, why couldn't it do the other things? Just like if you walk by a peanut for some people, they whiff a peanut, they get a huge anaphylactic reaction. Everybody's different. And so a small amount, even they say it's a small amount, it still could do bad things in your body for you and your genetics. Why not? The peanut's a great example because you literally took my next point was going to be there. One thing I've learned in functional medicine is I get the best results with personalized medicine.

47:10everybody's uniquely different. I've had people that have been allergic. My sister's allergic to flax seeds and avocado. Like, you know, you know, like people are allergic to broccoli and turmeric. I mean, even the healthiest things that God made an earth to, to, for us to just consume very digestive tract in a more natural way, you can be allergic to. So if you're going to inject something completely foreign in directly into the bloodstream, how could that potentially not be a problem? Another thing I want to mention here, just, I think that's, um, kind of an interesting point is, uh, and we can get in this or not, Joel, but like, and there's probably no research on this, but bypassing mucosal immunity via injection.

47:51Okay. So, so that's not taking the normal path. Again, if everybody think about this, typically the way that we get a viral infection or numerous infections is via, you know, most of the time via our, our, our, our lungs, our, you know, cardiovascular system. I mean, sort of how it enters the body versus going directly into the bloodstream. I mean, is there any concern there? I mean, with how these immunizations are administered?

48:15Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:I talked about this in many different locations in the book, but there's not a lot of great research on it, but I think this is more just like common sense. It's not the same thing, right? It's not the same thing as ingesting something as it is injecting it. And that doesn't mean it's necessarily worse. But I think with aluminum is where really the big conversation is because, you know, there are many ingredients that people are concerned about in theory, but aluminum is probably the number one concern at the moment, just because it's a metal and you're injecting it and a lot of the vaccines have aluminum in it.

48:40Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And with many other... They still do. Yeah, most of the kid vaccines, or many of them have it. Still have aluminum. Yes. So they used to have mercury, thimerosal. Most of that was taken out. They do have aluminum because that's an adjuvant. It helps boost the immune response. So for a number of the vaccines that use a protein, so just a small part of it, it doesn't create a robust immune response on its own in general. So they have aluminum in there to make a better immune response because it makes the vaccine work better. So it certainly makes the vaccine work better. The question, again, is that what cost?

49:08Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And the argument specifically for aluminum is, well, you know, you eat a lot of aluminum, you eat way more aluminum in any given day. It's a natural, natural in the environment. And so a little bit of aluminum vaccine is just a small amount. But that's the argument. I'm just saying that that's the medical argument. That's the kind of standard stance that we have about why it's OK in vaccines. But then if you look much more, if you look more closely, I mean, even for aluminum, we have standards, right? You can have 0.2 milligrams per liter in water of aluminum. One vaccine like hepatitis B has 0.25 milligrams of aluminum.

49:44Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:So it's not like it's such an insignificant amount that we can say that the numbers are just so infinitesimally small. But they, again, get around that by saying, well, you know, you're drinking a lot of water. You're drinking it all the time. So it's just like one vaccine. It's not very much. But that just really doesn't take into account the now cumulative effect of the many vaccines that have aluminum, the kids that maybe don't detoxify well. And again, it goes back to your point, which is why I'm coming back to this. It's not the same thing as eating it. You're bypassing the natural immune system.

50:12Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:It's going into your blood. It's going to be detoxified in a different way. And we're assuming that it's safe. But I don't think it's unreasonable to question whether just because we say it's kind of safe in our food. Is it? Is it the same thing? I don't know. I don't think so. I mean, I don't I don't think it's the same. I think it was never we were never meant to be injected with things. Doesn't mean that all science is bad. I mean, you do protect against things. You were supposed to die of an infection. You have a lot. So not all science is bad, but it's not unreasonable to question whether it could cause a side effect in some people or now because we have many vaccines with aluminum again and multiple times.

50:48Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Could there be some cumulative act? Could we have trouble detoxifying it, especially if you have a certain genetics or kidney issues or whatever it is? So I think your point is reasonable. And that's the kind of questions we should be asking and we should be studying. How much is too much? Is it an issue? Because they say most most doctors say, oh, you could have 10 ,000 vaccines. It's fine. You have a thousand vaccines. It'd be fine. There has to be some upper limit to how much aluminum you can inject into yourself before it's unsafe. How could that be true? You can't just inject forever aluminum.

51:17Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:them. So you've probably seen the headlines, inflation, tariffs, recession. And the truth is there's a lot to be concerned about. Many economists are warning that a recession could be coming soon. And just like we take steps to protect our physical health, we also need to take steps to protect our financial health. And that's why I'm turning to physical gold and silver to help protect my retirement and saving. Now, I personally trust Preserve Gold. They can make the process simple and they genuinely care. They're amazing Christian people I really respect. Right now, they're offering a free wealth protection guide.

51:53And you can get this by just texting AXE, that's A-X-E, to 50505 to get this free guide. Plus, you can get up to$15 ,000 in free gold or silver with a qualified purchase. Don't wait. Text AXE to 50505 today and take the first steps towards protecting what you've worked so hard to build. I'm praying for and excited about your financial prosperity. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think for many people, if we could absolutely trust the medical system and we knew that they had our best interest in mind, they were very open to the truth, and they were trying to discover what you just talked about just a few moments ago, which was we want to know if all immunizations are the same level of safety.

52:42And maybe this one is a risk and this one's almost zero. And this, you know, like being able to have that true data and this openness would allow us to, you know, really, because here's the thing, like, I believe in 90 plus percent of the time that we don't need conventional medicine, the way we use it today. I think if somebody's in a car accident, we have the best medical care in the world, it can save your life immediately. But I think today when somebody comes in with type 2 diabetes or obesity or heart disease, the first thing we shouldn't do is prescribe metformin and statin drugs and, you know, whatever other sort of drugs we're going to put you in with depression.

53:24I think we should be focusing on, you know, counseling and dietary changes and supplements and herbs and exercise first. And if we still need some help, hey, then let's use a drug, but it would need to happen so infrequently. And that's the model that I think we should be operating under. You know, I had a cousin of mine who had glioblastoma or astrocytoma. It's a brain cancer. And he was given less than a 1 % chance to live for one year. And he decided to go completely natural, full ketogenic. And one of the treatments he got was actually something called a dendritic cell vaccine, a form of immunotherapy, where they actually removed the tumor from his brain.

54:08This was MD Anderson. They then took the tumor and they went and took some of those cells, those cancerous cells, and made a vaccine against those cells to then administer in his blood throughout his body doing multiple treatments. And there's some really good research around this. So I actually think that there is a time and a place where conventional medicine in these sort in certain types might save lives. Of course. But, I mean, you know, there's, and so I'm not completely against all medications. I'm not completely against any type of immunotherapy or vaccine. It's just the majority of it, I don't believe is safe and effective.

54:46And we should focus on lifestyle first. And the other thing, again, my cousin was doing is he was doing a full-on healthy ketogenic diet of his entire diets, like wild-caught salmon and avocados and pumpkin seed butter. I mean, that's like, you know, and green juices. I mean, that's pretty much his diet. But again, he used this other therapy and we believe it's going to be beneficial for him.

55:08Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:That just goes back to the core of where we, I think we need to go is risk versus benefits. It's, there are some things that could save your life and that's great. And if you have a serious cancer you're going to die from and they can create some sort of immunization, vaccine, therapeutic, whatever it is that could save your life, amazing. Like, that's fantastic. That's what we want medicine to do. but we don't want a pill or a medication or a vaccine for everything just because we can make one doesn't mean that we should and just because we have something you have to weigh the pros and the cons because everything comes at a cost and and i i don't think that anybody is against the concept of vaccination if you could take a magical pill and never get sick and never have a problem in your life and it would never cause you an issue okay great like let's give that to our kids one but that's not how the world works the real world works by you need to have a healthy body you need to nourish your body you need to you know generally live a healthy lifestyle and that's going to get you 99 of the way there and then for certain people when you're out of balance usually you need to do these things to get back into balance but maybe a medication can help you to get there maybe you have some sort of genetics or some sort of serious complication where a medication can be helpful and that's great that's what medicine's for but we're so quick to do it now yeah and especially when it comes to vaccines we just we have more and more and more and nobody's taking them off the schedule nobody's thinking about risk versus benefits cumulative effects and i think we're getting to a point where we're using so many that people are starting to see the concerns around that and they're not you're not questioning and you talk about but safety like that is the research that parents want i know for sure right now people think it's just about money they're worried that the pharmaceutical and the medical and industrial space is so focused on we need more we need to make more money and they're not worried about safety and i think if we start to bring that back and we start to say, look, we know that everything has a risk.

56:54Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:There's probably never going to be a perfectly safe vaccine for every single person, but we are going to look into trying to make these as safe as possible. We're going to take a new approach. We'll have a little more humility. We're going to say, let's look into these things. Let's try to make them safer. Let's look into autism and autoimmune conditions and chronic disease, and let's see how or if they might be related, and let's try to make that better. That's going to make people a lot more confident. But right now, they're not doing that. We're not doing that. We're just saying, do it. it's safe and people are pushing back on that because they know that it's not totally safe.

57:21Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:It cannot be. Nothing is. And nobody knows how unsafe it is because we're not doing the research right now. Yeah. I mean, can you imagine if the United States would act with a level of humility, which is one of the things I appreciate about Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Marty Makery and Jay and the whole group over there is that they are walking forward in this way, even though they're battling all of these people that are so indoctrinated. But if we would go and say, you know what, we're going to do all this research we did. And you know what, in the meantime, let's go and match a country that we know has way better health than us.

57:48Let's look at Japan. Let's look at Sweden. Let's look at these other countries. Let's adopt more of their approach. I mean, how many more parents would probably be willing now, since people are so hesitant to go and get them if they knew that my child is going to get eight or 10 that are spaced out over time versus 80? You know, I mean, it would be, it would be, you know, they would build trust. I'm not saying whether I agree with that or not. But generally, I think that the trust would be built It's better than what we're doing now.

58:13Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:I agree. I think the trust is being eroded. And if we went back to, well, here's our strongest recommendations. Here's the things we really think you should get because of X, Y, and Z. And here's the issues with those diseases. And this is why we're recommending these as our top 10 or whatever. There you go. And I think that you would start to build trust. And you could still recommend the other ones. You could still say, well, we think the benefits outweigh the risks. Here's our schedule. And we still recommend it. And people can do whatever they want to do. And most people will still do it. But that's going to build trust back because it just seems like right now you'd almost be like oh let's just do the smallpox vaccine even though we haven't had smallpox in like 50 years we have a vaccine for us let's just do it just because and that seems to be the mentality right now with all these even polio like we haven't had polio in a long time so you know does that have to be something a two-month-old gets maybe you can give it later i don't want polio to come back i don't people get polio but like do you have to do it then do we have to do hepatitis b for every kid on day one of life like we have a different level of science and technology and understanding that you could make things a little bit more personalized you could say hey If your parents have hepatitis B, you should probably get the hepatitis B vaccine.

59:12Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:That's going to be really protective for you. But for the rest of the kids that have been tested, do we need to do that on day one? And how many of these conditions were there because of lack of sanitation and malnourishment? Right. We don't even know. We just really don't. But probably all of them. Yeah. All of them. I mean, they're obviously all much worse. Some of these things are still around. They're still bad. You don't want to get a meningitis. You don't want a bad pneumonia. You don't want to get polio. These things we don't want to get, but they're not around like they used to be. You know, another thing that sort of bothers me just about and we saw this during COVID.

59:43This shocked me. I mean, did you remember during COVID when the medical companies actually went and influenced like the dictionary and thesaurus like websites?

59:55Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:They changed the words of vaccines and immunity. Exactly. I mean, we saw this with herd immunity. And even immunization, you know, the way that I was trained in is a doctor of natural medicine in sort of the natural path. The immunization is, is that there are actually more than one path to immunizing yourself. You have these conventional immunizations, but the most powerful immunizations that lead to long term health are being deeply connected to the earth and the environment and getting those micro exposures. For instance, raw local honey has over 200 different microbes and types of pollen, which have been shown in studies to reduce allergies, reduce asthma, strengthen the immune system over time.

1:00:32So eating from your local garden. I mean, you know, there are studies showing that if you live in Japan, you're better able to digest fish and seaweed because you've built up a certain type of microbiome that can break down those unique peptides and fibers and compounds in those foods. And there's also and I wrote about this in a book. This is my first book I published called Eat Dirt. And I really talk about if you have a pet like a dog, if you live on a farm, you know, all of these things, cumulatively act as natural immunizations to help your body better able to adapt to some of those foreign invaders or things that you might, you know, might have to deal with your environment.

1:01:10And this is also why, you know, if you like I went on a trip to Mexico recently and I did not drink the tap water there. OK, a lot of people were that lived there.

1:01:19Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:When you live there, you're adapted to it, I think. Exactly. They're immune to whatever parasite or whatever sort of microorganisms in the water there. They're not having that reaction to it. And so there are natural way. I think sometimes parents think, well, it's the only way to protect my child. When the reality is, if you really focus on nourishment and diet and spending more time outside and these other things, it's a very different way. But it is a way to strengthen up the immune system over time. and still protect your kids against certain types of infections. And first of all, there's only vaccines against a few things.

1:01:53Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:So you still need to do those things because it protects you against everything else, which is the majority of what you're going to be exposed to anyway. And even for a vaccine, if you actually get the disease, you have a much stronger, much more robust immunity to that disease in the long run than if you get a vaccine because you're usually just getting one part. Now, the flip side, obviously, for medicine as well, but the point of getting a vaccine is to prevent you from getting very sick from those diseases, which is true, you could. But just the very basics of immune responses, if you're exposed to things naturally, it's going to give you a more robust response.

1:02:23Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:So I think we have to take a little bit of both and kind of an understanding from both sides and fear some of these diseases a little bit less and understand how the natural world and how our bodies are attuned with that and how we don't necessarily need a vaccine or a medication for everything. But we can still understand that modern medicine has a place. And for certain diseases, like maybe, you know, for certain people, it is reasonable. Or maybe you have other conditions where you really don't want to get a certain disease. So the vaccine makes sense. And I don't think that we should just get rid of all vaccines.

1:02:50Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:But I think we need to understand their place and really understand the risk versus benefits. again because if some of these diseases really do have something to do with autism or asthma or allergies even in part we need to know that so we can make the appropriate risk benefit analysis because for something that you're not necessarily going to see as a child like let's say hepatitis b in those first couple of days you need to be able to make a risk assessment if that increases your risk of getting asthma or allergies and you really don't have almost any risk to get in those first couple months like why are we doing that for kids like we have to know that to make those assessments and it doesn't mean the hepatitis b vaccine is bad it doesn't mean you want to get hepatitis b doesn't mean we want that to run rampant but it might mean that you don't need to do it in the first day maybe you do it at two months or four months or maybe at 10 years old or whatever it is but you can't make that assessment until you have an acknowledgement that it could cause a problem and figure out what those problems are if you don't have that risk you can't know the risk versus benefits do you have unexplainable illness hormone dysfunction weight loss resistance, brain fog, and you're tired of being dismissed when you know something isn't right.

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1:04:39One of the things I've appreciated about you and just hearing your story, Joel, is that you know, you stepped into this just wanting to know the truth. I mean, you weren't anti-vax, you weren't pro, you were just, I want to know the truth. And when I think about some of the people I respect most in the world, that's how they step into things. My respect for someone like Joe Rogan has gone up from this standpoint is that he's open to changing. I mean, he had a very, you know, he had a very strong sort of political stance that changed. He had a strong standpoint, I remember actually against Christianity, and now he's going to church.

1:05:12I mean, there are things like that that I'm like, okay, I really respect he's trying to find the truth. I saw the same thing with Russell Brand. I saw the same thing historically with Christian figures like C.S. Lewis. He was an atheist. And he's like, I just want to know the truth. I'll go either way, but I want to know the evidence and I'm going to allow that to speak to me on that. And you approach this the same way in the way you wrote your book.

1:05:34Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Yeah. I literally wrote the book not from a pro or anti standpoint. It's just, I want the conversation to be had. I feel like we were not able to have the conversation in the debate. The word vaccine was in the shadows. It needs to be brought out. We have to be able to have conversations like this. And the information is going to take me wherever. I mean, in my office and in the book, I don't tell anybody what to do. I don't feel like we should be telling people what to do. We should be providing information and then people should make the best decisions for them. Like everything else in medicine.

1:05:59Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And I have people in my office that do the regular schedule. I have people that do a slow schedule. I have some that don't do it. And I think that's up to you and you should do whatever it is that you want to do, but we should be able to talk about it. And if at the end of the day, 10 ,000 vaccines is going to make our kids the healthiest, so be it. And if it's zero, then so be it. But we have to be able to take that, I think, we need to be able to take that perspective going forward and say, like, is this making us cumulatively healthier or less healthy? And I don't think it's that obvious anymore with this chronic disease epidemic, because if these things are related in some way to this chronic disease epidemic, then you don't see a lot of these diseases anymore.

1:06:35Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And you can credit the vaccines for some of that maybe, but I think that we need to decide how much of a credit do we have to give the vaccines for these diseases and then what risk. And you don't want the measles to come running back and everybody to get measles, but I also don't want everybody to have asthma, allergies, autoimmune conditions, and autism. So it's both things can be true and you have to be able to minimize disease. And I said this before, you know, minimize disease, but also minimize these chronic diseases. And we have to know how or if these things are related in some way. I don't think we do.

1:07:03Yeah. What are some of the most surprising things that you discovered in writing your book?

1:07:08Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:The autism was by far the number one. I mean, we already talked about that. I think just the research in general going backwards in time for a lot of diseases is very surprising. I think we feel like we have this robust research on a lot of these vaccines and we have these vaccines studied in the best way possible, which would be against an inert placebo like saline or salt water, which is not true. We just don't have that research for most of the vaccines, almost all the vaccines in the childhood schedule. So they were mostly studied against an earlier version of the vaccine or an active placebo.

1:07:41Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:So the vaccine minus the antigen. And where that comes into play would be something like the DTEP, the diphtheria tenus pertussis. We now have the DTEP, the acellular pertussis. It was studied against the old one, the DTP, the whole cell, but the whole cell was taking off the market for safety issues. That's why we have the new one. So when you're studying the old one versus the new one, and you're saying it's safe compared to the old one, but then the old one is pulled off for safety issues. There's a flaw in that research. And now we can't go back and study things against an inert placebo because it's said to be unethical because these things are so effective that we can't not give kids a vaccine for a trial.

1:08:15Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:So you don't have that research that we would have loved for a lot of these things originally, because they just didn't do it back then. They didn't do it in the way that we do research, you know, for the older vaccines 50 years ago, 100 years ago. Now we do double-blind control trials, but the companies are not required to do it against inert placebo. And that's what we're getting a lot of discussion with Secretary Kennedy now of wanting that moving forward. There should be no controversy around a new vaccine where there's nothing on the market requiring that they do the best safety research possible before it hits the market.

1:08:45Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:That should not be controversial. Yes, there's some controversy around the old vaccines that are already on there, but if you're going to create a new vaccine, you should have to study it against an inert placebo for safety before it hits the market. That should be the gold center. That's what I was taught was the gold center. That's what I assumed everything was studied against, but it just wasn't. It wasn't studied that way. There are some inert placebo testing for some of the newer vaccines, some of the vaccines we don't use on the regular schedule, or it was studied for efficacy, but not safety, or it was studied after it was already on the market.

1:09:13Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:But almost every vaccine, basically none of the childhood schedules were studied for an inert placebo before it hit the market. And that is crazy that it was not required to do that. Like you would think that it would be, but it just was not required. It has never been. And why would a company do it if they can study vaccine A versus vaccine B? You can hide the, you can theoretically hide a signal because you could say, well, in group A, they had 10 seizures. In group B, they had 10 seizures. That's equally as safe. But if you did the right study and you did group A versus group B versus group C and group C had a placebo and had one seizure, 10 versus 10 versus one is very different.

1:09:46Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And it's a very different study. And there's nothing anti-science or woo about it. That's the way you do gold standard safety research, and we never did it. And it doesn't mean there's a problem because that might just be what it is. But if we don't do the right kind of research, you don't know. As a pediatrician and you counseling families and, you know, kids on their health, what are some of the best things that you believe we need to do to support kids in building their immune systems to prevent chronic infections, autoimmune disease, cancer, those sort of things in the future? The two big things, I mean, it's lifestyle, but it's food and toxins.

1:10:22Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:You have to eat healthy food, meaning fresh local produce that was just picked recently. I think you can't substitute that kind of food for the food that we get in markets these days. I mean, it may not be available to everybody, but at least you want to get the food that has the least amount of chemicals and toxins, the least amount of words. You don't even know what they are. As fresh as possible for wherever you are. Food loses its nutrients. If it's traveling, if it's been sprayed in all sorts of chemicals, it's just not the same thing. And we live in such a toxic world that if you can minimize things anywhere, I think that's a good thing.

1:10:57Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:So you just need fresh local food. You need to get outside, get some sunlight, exercise, move, try to decrease your stress. These are not rocket science things, but those are the kids that are the healthiest. I mean, you're living the way that we were always meant to live. We're never meant to live behind a screen. Never meant to eat food that's been shipped from some other country and sprayed in chemicals. and you're eating it three weeks after it was picked or in a package. It's something that's not talked about that much. How much food loses its nutrient density? I mean, you've got toxins that are sprayed on there and a lot of these pesticides.

1:11:27And then with that, again, if something's coming in from China or Mexico and you don't eat it for three weeks, and then it sits in your fridge, actually in the grocery store a little bit in your fridge, I mean, it's losing likely at least 50 % of its nutritional value. I mean, it's really immense and a load of enzymes and a number of other things. So that's a problem.

1:11:43Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Think about if you go to a farm and you pick something, how long is it going to last for? It's two or three days. It goes bad. So how could anything you have in the store not have been sprayed in something to keep it? Well, one of the things, the way that they do it is, one, is they harvest it really early. And it's not peak nutritional value if you harvest it early. And then the other thing is, to your point, is they're spraying things on it to keep it from aging as quickly. So, yeah, the nutritional value of the food we eat versus if it's grown in your local gardener, you're just going to your farmer's market.

1:12:11I mean, the reality is now compared to 50 years ago, we have such amazing access to local foods via your local farmer's market. And some store chains, you know, source things locally. Like I'll give you an example, like Whole Foods Market here. They have peaches that they just brought in from Georgia here and from even South Tennessee. Just, you know, I know that week. And so, you know, so it is possible to get some of these right now. There's another just thing I wanted to mention here just as we kind of close up. And it's this, you know, there are, uh, when I first moved to Nashville, one of the communities I spent the most time with is the autistic community.

1:12:49And a lot of those moms, a lot of those parents had a lot of the kids coming to my, my practice. And, um, one of the first things I did that I learned is get them on a gluten and casein free diet. And the kids saw great results. And then the next step I took was I started following more of a gaps diet. And this is really a diet that's full of lots of soups that follows Chinese medicine principles, traditional principles, and the results were great there too. And I remember having a kid who spoke four words. And about four weeks later, he spoke 40 words and his mom was just so just elated. And it was so meaningful to me.

1:13:26And then from there, we started doing things like hyperbaric oxygen therapy and just a number of things and being able to see major improvements on kids that had certain levels of damage that were struggling with autism, but also kids with allergies and asthma and ADHD. So if you're a parent out there watching this or listening to this, and you've had a child who was damaged by something or has a major health struggle, the body does have a great ability to regenerate itself, especially when you get it in the perfect environment. And so I want to just encourage you to think about some things and know that your body can heal and see great, you know, great improvement when you do some of the right therapies.

1:14:08Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And for kids, but also for adults, too. I mean, almost every so many people are sick with something these days. And unfortunately, the modern medical establishment seems to make it like, oh, it's just genetics. Oh, it's just the way that it is. Here's a medication. And that's what's going to be helpful for you for the rest of your life. And everybody that works in the integrative space says, no, no, no. Like there are things that you could do and we could see major improvements because a lot of what we're seeing is actually chemicals and toxins and lack of nutrients.

1:14:38Dr. Joel Gator Warsh:And if you give the body those things that it needs, you will start to see things get more in balance. And it's not often rocket science. You don't need to always follow like a very specific, like a GAPS diet or whatever. I mean, it's great if you do. But the basics of it is you're changing up their diet. You're giving them the nutrients that they need. You're giving them better food. And then their body is like, oh, great. I have the nutrients now so I could function a little better. and so it does and and sometimes it's really helpful to work with a practitioner because again everyone's different and a lot of people are going to do better on like no dairy no wheat but maybe that's not the thing that's important for your kid but at least if you're starting to move in that direction you start to see things really improve and i i really hope that we will move forward in the future with more of that attitude and this lifestyle first and and not taking this well it's just our it's just our genetics it's just happening um it's it's just it's just we're just noticing it more but it was always like that and oh we're always this ob said oh there were always this many kids that had autism no no we're doing it our lifestyle is doing it and we also have the power to change it and you as a parent have the power to make things better and to improve your symptoms and their symptoms if you focus on these things and you put health first but we just don't do that anymore we just faster cheaper easier and that comes at a cost of our health and we have to go back to prioritizing our health with it just needs to be something where we spend more of our time and more of our money if you can if you want to be healthier because people are just very unhealthy in the modern lifestyle that we have today yeah yeah it's to your point i think that's a combination of things i think for a lot of people it's just a whole uh for me just it took a whole mindset shift and thinking about things differently thinking about medicine differently nature differently i think about the way god made our bodies and made us to interact and get healthy and immunized via just nature.

1:16:25And so, and Joe, I just want to say, I've loved having you on. I am such a big fan of yours and that you are tackling this in a way where you're being unbiased and you're really trying to get to the root of the truth. And I want to encourage everybody to check out, Joel's got a new book here. It's called Between a Shot and a Hard Place. This is going to be in many bookstores. It's going to be on amazon.com. So you just run on amazon.com and get this book right now, Between a Shot and the Hard Place. If you want to know the truth and the research of what's out there, what's not out there, you want to check out this book again here by Dr.

1:16:59Joel Warsh. He's an MD. He's a pediatrician. He's an expert in epidemiology. And Joel, just so great having you on the show today. Thanks for having me on. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks so much for tuning in here to the Dr. Josh Axe Show. Remember, each and every week, we're diving deep into the science and the principles of how you can heal physically, mentally, and spiritually and take your health and your life to the next level. Thank you to all of you subscribers out there. By the way, the number one thing you can do to support this show is subscribe. It allows me to bring on more hope, high profile guests like Dr.

1:17:32Joel here. And also thank you for sharing. Listen, there are millions and millions of people who don't know the truth about vaccinations, about immunizations, about just how to be healthy. And so do me a favor, help share this, help get the word out, because the world needs to know the truth about vaccines. Thanks so much for watching. We'll see you on the next episode.

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