21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership: Q&A Season 2, w/John Maxwell

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1:06This is the Ed Myland Show. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So we're through the 14th law now, and we finished season two, and I'm honored that I get a chance to spend some time with all of you answering your questions. I think we've had 10 ,000 questions. Is that right, Max? Yes. 10 ,000 submitted questions, and 9 ,998 of them are for you. John. Two from me. I did ask my mom and my sister to submit two questions for me. Shoot. But we're honored to have you back, John. It's always good. It's always good to be with you. Always, always good. I love you. It's Christmas. I love you too.

1:41When they say yes, I've said yes. I don't even know what the question is, but it's just a yes if it's had. Isn't it fun to be able to do things like this together that we both love to do, but then to help people. Yes. I mean, it's kind of like it's almost unreal that we get to help people and add value to them and then just enjoy each other as friends. And this is our life. It's a blessing. This is what we do. Yes, it is a blessing. You know, I haven't told you in a while, but I love you. I love you. Since my father's passed away, you know you're the most important role model and man in my life.

2:19I just want you to know that. Thank you, sir. I'll do my best to be who I need to be for you because I sure do love who you are and I love what you do. You do it with such excellence. You're so gifted, and yet you do it with such a beautiful heart. When I see giftedness with heart, it's a beautiful thing. Well, I'm looking right at it. I've seen beautiful hearts, but maybe not the gifts weren't there, beautiful gifts, the hearts weren't there. But when you can put that head and that heart together and do it for others and do it for the right reason, and you do it for the right reason, Thank you.

2:54Every time we're together, it's just a pure delight. I know. I know. I love it. All right. We'll stop loving on each other and answer your questions here, everybody. And by the way, I'm serious when I say that the vast majority of them are clearly for you. So we're also joined today by my son, Max, who produces the show. And he's going to be offering the questions up to us. So, Max, love you. Great to have you here. Let's get this rolling. Yeah, I love the both of you guys. Excited to be here. So the first question that we got submitted, and again, this is when people would download the workbook.

3:22they would submit a question to you guys. This one specifically for the both of you, it would be, what do you see today as the biggest problem of how people lead? I'll let you go first.

3:36Well, you know, it's interesting. I'm asked sometimes how I could stay in the leadership game so long. Yeah. And I say, well, you know, what we have to understand is the leadership game as when you think of leadership, it's kind of like baseball. You say, well, I play a game of baseball. Well, the game of baseball is the same, but every game isn't the same. And so, yes, there are certain rules and regulations, but then the game all takes on an identity of its own. And in leadership, in my years of leading, when I started off 50 years ago plus, and it's been literally 50 years now since I really felt kind of called to do leadership.

4:16When I started off, things were so different. I mean, you didn't have to see before others see like you do now. You just had to see more. Just had to see a bigger picture. Now with social media and everything moving again, before starting to replace more. When I started off in the leadership game, if you had a title, then you were the leader. If you had a position, it was a noun, not a verb. Now it's a verb. And so when people talk about the transition of leadership, what I know about is this. Managers treat everyone the same, pretty much. Management kind of likes everything solid and stable and organized.

4:58And they like the predictable. But in the leadership world, it's exactly opposite. It's the unpredictable. And what makes leaders really good is that they're able to seize the moment. and they are able to seize the moment because they have the ability to see more than others see and see before others see. They have the ability to pivot quickly. They have the ability to be agile and flexible. And in leadership, honestly, the fastest person doesn't win the race, the first person gets started wins that race. And so the big change, I think, in leadership today is that you just have to be quicker you have to be more flexible you have to be more adaptable you have to um have to understand that what the answer was yesterday might not be the answer today you have to be able to ask questions instead of just making assumptions assumptions are the mother of all mess ups in leadership anyway wow so it's it's the ability today to uh understand the moment seize the moment and then do something that helps people in the moment that really sets you apart from other leaders.

6:10That's really good. The only thing I would add to that is actually from you. It was a clip. Last night, I was doing some reading, and then I kind of like, I do searches, you know, try to find references to things you've said before. And I don't know if you remember saying this, but you, this is, I think, the mistake that's still in business. They're learning leadership. People take these leadership skills they're learning to take their people to serve the business. And you said, in leadership, the way that you said it was this, I'll mess it up, but I'll give it the best I can for the audience.

6:39That you could actually have one style of leadership where you use people to serve the business. Or you have a philosophy where you use the business to serve people. And to me, a lot of times these tactics can give myself, oh, I can now get them to go do these things. As opposed to using the business to serve people. So it's actually a tip from you that I learned last night that's just been fresh on my mind since I heard it. It's very true. I think that the best leaders are the ones that want more for the people than the ones who want from the people. That's really good. Very good. All right, Max.

7:12Yeah, I think that's pretty hard to beat there. So the next question we have is submitted for you, Dad. So it will be, what is the biggest thing you had to unlearn or reprogram yourself to level up your leadership? The biggest thing I had to unlearn? I think two things. One, I led through, when I was a young man, I led through what I would say more of an intimidating presence. Almost like my way or the highway. I called all of the shots. I was in charge. I thought leaders were these visionary people who were bold and ambitious, which they are. But I took it to an extreme where I think people almost feared me.

7:50And that worked short term when I was in my 20s. You know, you better do it or else. That worked. But eventually you wear out your welcome. And eventually that didn't work very well, nor was it something that was great for the culture. And this is even true at home, Max. And also, it was also, I didn't feel great about me leading that way. And so sometime, I can't even exactly identify when it was, I started to lead through love. And I started to talk less and ask more and ask more questions. and what I found is in business, even as a parent, I think loving your kids is kind of like a ticket into the game as a parent.

8:32You're supposed to love your kids and you should love people that are around you. You always talk about valuing people. But what is sort of a missing thing that's not talked about a lot is like, you know what's a deep indication of love? Belief. Like really believe in people. And the more I slowed down, I used to think the smartest people or the best people were just like me. We like people like us. And the more I started to have an appreciation, just a few minutes ago, Ben Carson was sitting in the seat you're in. Dr. Ben Carson. What a beautiful man. Oh, he's sitting beautiful. Beautiful man.

9:04I love him. Very different personality. Oh, yeah. Even than you and I. He's much more soft-spoken. And yet, that depth of my belief in what he could contribute to our culture and conversations is very deep. And so I would say, Max, the difference was learning to lead through love, lead through vision, lead through inspiration, which is to be in spirit. Motivational leaders play to your motives. This carrot, this stick, this whatever. Inspirational leaders, they touch you and your spirit. And so I think that shifted for me. And then to learn to really emphasize my belief in people because I think people rise to your level of belief.

9:41They want to prove to you you were right about their belief in them. and it's also just the right thing to do is to see greatness in people. To me, when you believe in somebody, what you're really seeing is you're seeing God's gifts in them, whether it be their work ethic or their humor or their intellect or what have you. I think it's just looking for the right thing. By the way, it just made me a happier human being, never mind a leader in business. Was there anything when you were young building the business or the church or anything like that that's very different about you now? Oh, it's the same way.

10:07When I was young, I just was telling people where to go and how to get on the leadership train, and there's the mountain we're going to climb. And I never, ever thought about asking them what they wanted to do. It's kind of like, you know, join the team, join the team. And, you know, they get on the train. And, of course, after a while, they get off the train. I said, you know, where did they go? And, of course, I was very directional instead of conversational. And, you know, one of the things when you were talking about that change that you had, there are two things I want to say. One is I want to say because I had the same change, major change in my life as far as how I lived in the beginning and how I lead today.

10:41And I think that's very important for everybody that's part of this podcast. Because I think sometimes we ask, is change possible? And change is possible. And we can get better. But when you were talking about inspiration and belief, I thought to myself, the reason I think, the secret, I think you have, without any question, one of the great podcasts in the world. Always have. I said, there's nobody that does a podcast that I know as good as Ed Milet. You just are a master at it. But I think it's your belief in people. I think when you have an inspirational aspect of your leadership, I think you bring the best out of people.

11:23And I think what makes an Ed Milet podcast really good is they feel your belief. And pretty soon you start drawing out of them what is inside of them but wouldn't come out without inspiration. And I think you kind of give them that breath of fresh air that just allows them to perhaps express themselves on a higher level. I know that when we're together, every time I think, boy, Ed just brings the best out of me. Well, you bring the best out of me because I think you are inspirational. And I think it's just a beautiful thing. And I think that it's exhibit A when we're talking about giving answers.

11:58The best answer is kind of like the life that you live. And you live it, Ed. You bring the best out of people. You're very intuitive where people are. You're very insightful about how to come alongside people and say those words that kind of just nudge them to go up one more level. And so I think you live that life. Thank you. I never asked you this. Maybe it's a difficult answer. What's the best of you? Like I know what it is from you with me in my life. But if you were to say, hey, setting aside humility for a second, probably my greatest strength as John Maxwell as a leader is what? How about that one?

12:39Well, it's so funny because I got Mark Cole in the studio. Right, Mark is here. And the reason why I say that is sometimes I have to have Mark answer my questions for me because sometimes he's more insightful about me than I'm insightful about him. He won't brag about himself. You guys see that? He really is. And so I think, first of all, I think that I have, okay, I think when you're gifted in leadership, you have within you the art of leadership. There are the skills of leadership and there's the art. Skills you can learn. There are certain leadership skills that you just do to become a better leader.

13:15But the art of leadership, when I wrote this, well, when I wrote the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, when we get into this book, the law of timing, that's not a skill. I mean, how do you know when to move, when to not to move, when to hold? How do you know how to intuition? That's an art form. And I would suppose, and I think that comes honestly with more gifted leaders. And when the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership came out, I traveled the world for three years just teaching 21 laws because it was a bestseller, bestseller, bestseller. and what I found was that with the skills I could teach very easy because they're tangible but with the art it was just more difficult and so if you ask what the best of me would be this would be interesting sometimes you have to ask more but I think if you'd ask what the best of me I think I am fairly gifted in leadership and I think that I just am intuitive which gives me a terrific advantage that allows me to see it quicker faster than most people, which again is a tremendous advantage.

14:18Is intuition the same as discernment or is that different? I think they're very similar. I think when I'm intuitive, I think of an intuitive person as a person who perhaps has a sense of gut feeling. This is right. I think of a discerning person that's probably just a little bit more in the mind. So I'd put discernment more in the head. I'd put intuitive a little bit more in the gut. But they're both a distinct advantage because what they do is they allow you to catch what's happening probably quicker than what most people are catching. What a great answer, by the way. That is the difference between intuition and discernment.

14:54I think so. I've never heard that before. Yeah. It's so good. Mark, if we had a microphone, we'd ask you. For another session, huh? We do have a microphone. Let's do it really quick. What would you say, Mark? So I think the one that is most attainable, it's not a gift from God, is his true authentic valuing of people. He constantly sees the value in people. And what happens with the magic of both of you is you free him up to see not only your value, but how you value the people listening to the podcast. So it is his genius at making everything, whether it's his gifting in leadership, whether it's gifting in speaking.

15:31It's all about valuing the recipient. Thank you for that. So that's so good. I do agree with Mark. That's what I was leaning towards saying myself, that you said it better than I would have said it. Well, it's the Ed and Mark show. It's very obvious. But a lot of times, honestly, when Mark's with me, I'll say, Mark, answer that question for me because he does see it. But what he said is so right on. I really do. I love people. And I tell leaders, when you stop loving people, stop leading them. Because now we're in the danger zone. You'll start manipulating people. You'll start taking them. The moment you stop loving them, it's all about you now and how can I get them to move for me, which you know is always wrong.

16:13Yeah, so good. Thanks, Mark. Yeah, Mark, really good. This episode is sponsored by Rho. A lot of people assume GLP-1s cost a fortune, and that assumption keeps them from even looking into treatment. Rho helps people find a more affordable path to FDA-approved GLP-1 treatment. Rho wants to help people lose weight. That's why they have more affordable GLP-1 options, whether you're paying with insurance or cash. Roe's free insurance checker makes it easy to see if you're covered for GLP-1 injections. Just submit your insurance card and Roe handles the rest. No paperwork, no waiting on hold, no confusing phone calls.

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18:59I agree. You know what I'm doing. But when they're not listening, the first question I have to ask myself is not what's wrong with them. I have to ask what's wrong with me. I mean, really, my greatest leadership challenge is leading Maxwell, not leading someone else. And when they're not listening, there's a reason they're not listening. When they're not giving me eye contact, there's a reason. So it's either that I'm not connecting with them in what I say. It could be the fact that I am certainly on my own page and they're different.

19:34Here's what I know. If I ask them questions, they'll engage. If I give them answers, they'll disengage. And so the key ad is you don't say as a leader, find me and listen. you basically say, I have to find you. And when I find you, I can then feed you. I find you first, where are you? And then I start to feed you the things that you're telling me that you need that allows you to be the person that you really want to be. So often I tell people the key to communication, the key to leadership is the ability just to get over yourself. I mean, a lot of my positive change and growth in life was when I realized it wasn't about me.

20:30Whether I'm, you know, when people are speaking, you know, well, I hope they like me. Well, really, that isn't why they came. Nobody came to have a contest to see how many would vote for you. It's not about you. It's all about the people. And the day that I quit worrying about me and started saying, how can I help people and genuinely make a difference in their life, everything changed. And I think it's true in communication. I think that's true in leading. I think that's true in relationships. I think it's true in every area of our life. Just focus on the other person and not so much on who you are and what you're saying and what you want to get from people.

21:06What a great answer. It also relieves pressure from you. Totally. You don't think that way. 100%. People that ask me about speaking or anything, it's like their nerves are so high because it's about them. Do you agree with that? Oh, I agree. In fact, I had somebody ask me yesterday. In fact, Mark was with me, and they said, are you nervous when you speak? I said, not really. I used to get nervous when I spoke, but what I got nervous when I spoke is when I was worried about me. But the day that I thought, you know, I'd like to sit down and have a conversation, because really, I think great speaking and communicating is having a conversation with people.

21:40And the moment that you sit down and have a conversation with somebody, and you're trying to help them and add value to them, I really look forward to it. And I honestly just don't get nervous at all anymore when I speak. You don't get nervous, yeah. Not at all. But, I mean, I've done it. The other side, I've done it 14 ,000 times. Yeah, today's not your third speech. No, no. But in the beginning, I was very nervous and very concerned. But when I look back, one, I wasn't established. I wasn't that good for sure. But when I look back, almost all the issues that I have that I had to overcome were not issues about the people.

22:17They were issues about me. Same. And the moment that I kind of worked on me and got myself where I should be and fixed, everything changed. What a great example he is. Yeah, that's an absolutely great answer. Luckily, we have time for one more question. So really quick, I want to ask the both of you this. Did you notice he said, Max said really quick. Max, are you saying we're a little lengthy there? Are we a little blovy? No, you guys are always great. It was when Mark jumped in. That's the guy that... Yeah, Mark blew it. Yes, he delayed us today. Come on, Cole. So anyways, this last question says, how does a wife support her husband to become a better leader?

22:53This is to the both of you. Well, the first answer I got would get me a trophy. Give it. Give it. I want to say, well, just by following us, she can tell. And oops, oops. If you just heard this, do not repeat this one to her. That was a joke. Yeah, that was totally a joke. You know what? It's so interesting when you think of relationships. And, of course, sometimes in the Christian setting, we kind of talk about the man to the head and the whole process. And, you know, so come on, wife, let's follow me in the whole process. But I always say about the time I'm wanting to have Margaret just kind of follow me and kind of get in line, I'm reminded that we're supposed to love our wives like Christ loved the church.

23:35And the moment that I think of that, I said, well, I think we're already in trouble because how he unconditionally loves us and cares for us. I'm never going to measure up in that area. But I really do believe that in a setting of relationships, I think unconditional love is just essential. I just do. If somebody said, what's the best thing as a parent I give my children? Unconditional love. What's the best thing as a husband I give my wife? Unconditional love. Unconditional love just allows people to be their very best. And any time there's conditional love, it begins to put us in corners and boxes that just doesn't really work well.

24:17And that's how I see it. I don't know that I have something to add to that. I think that's so good. I'll tell you one thing, Max, because that is it. So if that's the A, if there's a B, the B would be that I remember one time I won an award, Max, and I was super excited about it. And your mom was kind of blasé. You know, she was like, yeah, great. And I'm thinking she's disinterested. And it was interesting. On the ride back, I said, you know, I have to tell you, it kind of bothered me that you, I thought you'd be a little bit more excited about that. And she says, I expect you to do that. And she stopped.

24:57She said, I believe in you. That doesn't surprise me. So she said, when you won, you almost acted surprised. And she goes, you always tell these athletes, act like you've been there before. She said, I expected it. And I think one of the things that you can give as a spouse to the other person is deep belief. Yes. And you send them out into the world with that, there's a level of confidence that they can't have just on their own. And so I would think that that would be the additional, that would be part B to John's definite answer, which was the A. Wow, that was good, Ed. I love that answer she gave you.