Dangers of AI and Humanity's Future (Are You Ready?)

34:26So we are bound to get a significant advantage on one side of the arms race because that's the way AI has been. Someone finds a breakthrough. Okay. And once you find the breakthrough, look at the, you know, open AI Google story or alphabet story where chat GPT with reinforcement learning gets that immediate advantage that basically puts chat GPT out in the world. And for a while, the world believes that Google has lost its edge. And had Google not responded by putting BARD out there, you could actually believe that Google would be gone. Because, you know, chat GPT is a very interesting new way of search.

35:10So you're going to see that. You're going to see some players creating a very big advantage over others. And the fear is that this player could be a hacker. It could be a defense authority on one side of the world, not your side. It could be a drug dealer that suddenly realizes, oh, my God, there's so much more money if I start to rob banks or convince people or blackmail people or do this or do that. And it seems to me that humanity will only create the artificially intelligent policeman when the artificially intelligent criminal shows up.

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37:24Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Be sure to follow the Ed Milet Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. So my guest today, when I first started this show, I don't know, seven, eight years ago, was on my original list of the 10 people I wanted to have on. But when we were this little show, I couldn't get him. And now that we've grown a little bit, I'm grateful that we've risen to the level of being worthy of his presence. And I'm so excited to pick his brain. I consider him one of the most innovative, smart people on the planet.

37:57It's Sal Khan. He's my guest today. He's the founder of, most of you probably know, the Khan Academy, which is, in my mind, one of the most revolutionary, unbelievable organizations when it's come to education in the last few years. But we're going to discuss sort of the advances in that world today, particularly AI as it relates to education. But also I want to just touch on AI in general with him today and what he thinks the impact on the world that's going to bring. He's promoting a new book he's got called Brave New Words. And really what that book does is it discusses the integration of AI in education.

38:28And he's got this new thing called the Conmigo AI Guide that I want to ask him about as well so sal khan finally welcome to the show good to be here ed you didn't know you were on the top 10 places i wanted to be so you just had to ask gosh the universe finally brought us together i had that imposter syndrome going so are there any industries i'm putting pinning you down here any industries that you with your vision because khan academy even though you say it's i you know i saw this pattern i kind of stumbled into it you're a visionary you saw a need you saw where the future was it's like they say in hockey i don't know if gretzky was the greatest player but everybody else skates where the puck is he was skating to where the puck was going where do you think the puck is going in terms of careers if there was if there are there industries that you say this is going to be an industry if you pursued it and chased it you're going to be in great shape when it comes to ai and are there one or two where you're like you know my sense is these are going to be in in some trouble i would say whether you call it engineering computer science um you know a lot of people are skeptical because like hey these ais can code better than they can do almost everything else.

39:33But if you're good at it, I remember I graduated with a CS degree and a master's back in the late nineties. And I remember everyone telling me that, Hey, your job is going to get outsourced to India. You should do something else. And that's one of the reasons why I went to business school. But if you look at the last 20 years since then, the inflation adjusted salaries for engineers has gone through the roof. When I went to it, I became a hedge fund analyst because I thought that's how I could pay off my debt versus working as an engineer. Now the best way to pay off your debt is go get some stock and work as an engineer.

40:04I think that trend is going to continue. Even at Khan Academy, we've seen that phenomenon. We're already seeing our engineers get two or three X productivity from these AI tools. To me, that's not told us, oh, we only need one third as many engineers. We're saying we need three times as many engineers because we can now do so much more. The return on investment from hiring more engineers now is even better. So I think you're going to see that type of an accelerant I think anyone, you don't have to be a formal engineer, but who has that type of thinking where they can put the pieces together to make something work, I think is very, very powerful.

40:41So, you know, your point about whether universities in the traditional sense are going to exist, I think they are going to exist in some way, shape or form, but you're going to have many other alternative paths. And I've been a big proponent of competency-based learning. It shouldn't be you sat in a chair for four years and now we're going to give you a diploma that might mean something. It should be, hey, here are the skills that matter. You should try to learn them and prove that you know them. If you haven't proved it yet or if you fail the first time, try again next month. And I can imagine you already see this in fields like engineering and software engineering because there's such a shortage that there's alternative paths.

41:18I'm trying to actually my 15 year old, I'm trying to get him to do one of these software engineering camps that even people with engineering degrees do because the universities aren't teaching them how to actually be a professional software engineer. But if he does that when he's 16 or 17, he could actually go make six figures. And then if he wants to go to college, he can go to college and, you know, he'll be able to treat his friends to dinner. That's how you want to make your friends. But so I think you're going to have other other pathways other than the four year degree. And it's going to put pressure on a four year degree that costs two hundred, three hundred thousand dollars has a four year opportunity cost to get a little bit more innovative.

41:57It is. I we share that opinion. I I was thinking about, you know, in college sports now, these guys have their NIL deals and they can make more money younger. The two things that I want everybody to hear is that if you have a young person in your life, there's going to be an opportunity. more and more the world has been innovative that younger and younger people can get wealthier and wealthier frankly you look at zuck or cuban or musk or whoever right even in my case i got pretty wealthy young not on their level but younger and younger and i know a lot of influencers sort of teach be patient but there's a chance now as a young person if you're entrepreneurial and innovative or even if you've got these unique skills you can start to make an awful lot of money much younger in life the other applications if you're middle-aged or a little bit older making a pivot in your career and learning a new trade or a new craft or a new skill is going to become so much more accessible to so many of you to change your life in midlife than it was before when this access wasn't there the reason i wanted you on the show back in the day sal um was this a question about you um and please you know i know you have a great deal of humility but the more i read about you years ago i'm like okay here's this really brilliant man he could have taken his life and stayed at a hedge fund or started his own one or and i don't know that i don't know if khan economy has made you an extremely wealthy man or not but i do know if you applied yourself and wanted to build massive wealth that was the course you wanted to take in your life by this age you could be in the conversation with these other titans of innovation in the world you clearly made a decision as a pretty young man to pursue I think passion and cause over net worth.

43:36At least it appears that way to me. Is that true? And if so, why? Like, was that a conscious decision you made? And are you happy that you made it in hindsight? Most of the time, you know, the, the, um, and no, I am not independently wealthy in that sense, but because Khan Academy is a not-for-profit, you own as much of Khan Academy as I do. I get a salary from the board. I think a very generous one, more than I expected to make when I started this as a nonprofit. But I have a solidly upper middle class lifestyle now, but I'm very happy with it. You know, my decision back in 2008, 2009 to work on this full time, I just dug deep and said, well, what makes me happy?

44:19And I was like, well, you know, as long as I have my friends and family, we have the resources where I don't, you know, I grew up fairly, you know, I grew up in a single mother household. We didn't have a lot. So I did and frankly still do have some insecurities about, you know, when financial stress gets too much. But I said, look, as long as we can get a, have a 2000 square foot house, have a couple of cars in the garage, go out to eat every now and then, go on vacations every now and then, nothing ostentatious. And, you know, I have my friends, my family and my health and I get to work on something I care about.

44:53That's wealth. That's that's the ultimate. And, you know, everything else would you know, I don't really need much more than that. And that's when I quit my day job to start working on Khan Academy. And, you know, every now and then, you know, I might look at like, oh, a peer startup with much less scale, et cetera, might be worth X, Y or Z. But then I just think about, well, what would I what would I do with all of that? And I just remind myself, I forgot who said this, but I think it was the 19th century. some author wrote you know i have something that many of these billionaires at the time i think he said millionaires will never have and then the interviewer said what and he said i have enough and um it's i i have more than enough you know i i i click my heels every day to work and i i feel blessed every moment and i think that's very very few people on the on the planet get to feel that way i admire that tremendously that's an easy thing to say everybody like in hindsight but when you have the capacity that sal has to have made that decision is a really noble decision and to live it out every single day of your life as you see peers of yours with way less scale that haven't reached 165 million people with transformation build massive wealth and i've always wanted to ask you that um because i've admired it so much from a distance so just want to acknowledge you for that brother the work you do in the world clearly matters and um i think when you're doing it like you said maybe you don't feel the impact of it because you're in the day-to-day grind but just know as a as a fan of yours looking back at you i have so much admiration for the way that you've decided to serve and live your life so i want to acknowledge that no i appreciate that but yeah yeah i'm having a good time so good i'm having a good time doing this interview i just gotta be honest with you let me ask you this uh i'm gonna poke a little deeper what are your fears about the next five or 10 years of AI?

46:54Like if someone said, I've seen you talk a little bit about this, but you've covered most of the positive things. Clearly, you're bright enough man to know there are risks that come with revolution and innovation. What are they in your mind? Oh, and there's some things to be afraid of, to be sure. I am very afraid of what we're going to be able to do with what bad actors are going to do with deep fakes. You're already seeing cases of fraud where you get a phone call from, Sounds like your child says they're arrested. It's interacting with you. They're trying to get you to send bail money. It's fraud.

47:26You're already seeing, unfortunately, people creating deep fakes of their classmates doing things and putting it on social media. That stuff is scary. And I don't have all the solutions on how to fix that. I think you're going to have state actors using AI and deepfakes, but not just deepfakes, just AI's ability to seem very human to manipulate people, to affect society. You could imagine if you saw videos of people waiting outside at their bank and they're not getting their money and it's all fake. Well, then it could create a run on bank. So these could be very, very serious things. So I'm very worried about that.

48:12I'm also worried about the economic dislocation. You know, I talked about who's safe, who's not safe. You know, if you're a copywriter editor or a copywriter, you're writing text. If you're working at a call center, you're doing medical transcription. or if you are a, let's call it a middling software engineer, you're not a great software engineer, you're kind of middle of the pack, I think that's going to be a tough economy. And so hopefully there's net new jobs that are more human-centric that the AI can't do. That's my hope, but I'm not sure if that's going to be the case. So we have to be on top of that.

48:52I'm afraid, you know, the pace of change is so fast. You know, I feel like I'm in the middle of it. You know, the people doing the research at OpenAI and Microsoft and Google, like, are texting me and slacking me on a regular basis. So I feel like I'm plugged in. But even I feel like I'm falling behind. Every day, someone in my team says, what about this? And I'm like, oh, my God, we're not going to be able to incorporate that for another six months. But will that be too late? So I worry that when the change is so fast and it's accelerating, you know, people have been talking about the singularity for 30 years now.

49:27We are in it. And I feel it every day that it's like what I thought last year would take a year ended up taking two months. And then two months later, what I thought would take now two months is now taking two weeks. So it's accelerating. So anytime change like that happens, you just don't feel in control as much. And I weren't in the education realm, but I guess this is more broadly. I worry about AI not being used well. And then people throw out the baby with the bathwater. And then the real problem there is the bad actors aren't going to slow down at all. And then the good actors are going to slow down out of fear.

50:05And then it's just going to get worse and worse. What's the separator then? Like, I feel like it used to be if I knew more than you in life, you know, if I had more information than you, if I was better educated than you. This is an overall general statement and it's not an easy one to answer, but to some extent, access to that is now levelized in an instant. And that's an overall generalization. And by the way, that's sort of been the case the last decade and a half in the world anyway. So in your mind, what is a separator skill somebody needs in culture now to succeed, to prosper, to increase their lifestyle, to increase their impact?

50:48It's entrepreneurship in the purest of forms. And you mentioned this has been the case the last 15 years. You can think of someone like, you know, Justin Bieber would not have been discovered if not for YouTube. I, to some degree, would not have been discovered if not for YouTube. You can think of people like Mr. Beast, you know, who now has whatever, hundreds of millions of subscribers and is making probably similar orders of magnitude of money. before, if we go back 20 or 30 years, there were all these gatekeepers, these taste makers who decide who's in and who's out, regardless of how entrepreneurial that person was, no matter how skilled that person was.

51:26But then the internet democratized that dramatically. Now you still do have bottlenecks because a lot of things are very capital intensive. If I want to make a great movie, it still costs$100 million maybe to make that movie. I have to go still through the tastemakers, through the production houses, the movie studios. I thought it was funny, the debate with the Screenwriters Guild. I thought it should have gone the other way around. The production houses should have been afraid that the screenwriters are going to start using AI to produce the entire movie. Because why do they need the production house anymore?

51:59If they can take an amazing story, and so it's people with an amazing sense of story, and if they have a vision for what they want to create, they're not going to have to raise$100 million anymore. They're going to be able to do that movie for$100 ,000. And then you're just going to have more. And there's going to be a lot of, when you lower the hurdles, you're going to have a lot of crap out there. And you see that on YouTube and on the internet. But you're also going to get a lot more good stuff that's going to get discovered. It's going to get surfaced. So, yeah, I think it's generally that pure, raw entrepreneurship is going to become even more and more valuable.

52:34In the past, things like going to getting a college degree, having brands on your resume, whether it's college brands or graduate school or employer brands on your resume, it was a signal to the tastemakers, to the gatekeepers that, oh, I'm hiring a hedge fund analyst. Let me get that kid from Harvard Business School who seems to know what they're doing. And you won't even look at kids from someplace else. But as as these tools democratize the ability to to do things, you're going to have more and more people not have to go through these gatekeepers, not have to go through those same doors. They're going to be able to prove on their own that they're capable.

53:12Gosh, just blows my mind. A couple of last questions. I'm just sitting here processing everything you're saying. I'm like, we are really in the middle because my world isn't your world every day. Right. Like this hasn't impacted me much yet. And quite frankly, I think the vast majority of the people that listen to my show haven't felt the impact of this yet. And that when I do a show like today, I want to make sure they have context for it. Like this is here. This is coming where this isn't pie in the sky. Everybody like it may not hit your real estate business yet or your mortgage company yet or your insurance business yet or your gym yet.

53:49But there is an impact and an application and to get educated about this. I mean, go to chat GPT and just play with it, for example, just see it, just experience it. I guess my last question would be the human being, right? Someone said to me the other day, I told him I was interviewing you and they said, please ask him about like, can't avatars just do all of this work now? In other words, why would a human being, if there's a school teacher, like I, why would I not just have the avatar of a school teacher? That avatar doesn't have a bad day. That avatar didn't have a disagreement with their spouse that morning, right?

54:25That avatar doesn't get sick every single day. So the need for the human over that avatar in general will always be what? I know it feels like I've sort of touched on this with you, but specifically everybody, you could take an avatar of me right now and I could come give a speech to your company. I could do a Q &A afterwards that's better than the Q &A maybe that I would do if I weren't having a very good day. In my mind, in my business, that does to some extent kind of freak me out a little bit. So the overall, okay, everyone think about that. The avatar version of you and anything you do, unless it's a physical thing, like lifting a weight, what, what, why do we not need to worry about that in general?

55:06I know it's a little bit repetitive, but it's asked in a different way because that's what it looks like. Yeah. And look, even the lifting weight, I've been told that the robotics is the next big inflection point that's about to hit. That's going to be like a science fiction book. But my view, you're right, and maybe not today, but we can imagine three to five years, you are going to be able to Zoom with an AI that can look at you, interact with you. It's going to feel like an amazing teacher or coach or coworker. I still think that at least in the teaching context, it's going to be better to have both, that you're going to have the in-person tutor.

55:46At the end of the day, there's just something very powerful that there's another sentient human being that is taking the time to care about me and that I've connected with. And no matter how good the AI gets, you're going to say, huh. I mean, it's kind of like.

56:19I think it's going to pay attention to pay attention to pay attention. I think it's going to pay huge dividends. You know, there's there's I've heard I don't know if this is true. I'll tamper what I'll taper what I was about to say. There's there's we think there's five senses, but there's millions of subtle cues we're constantly getting from other people, many of which are probably subconscious. You know, like I I don't consciously smell someone else's pheromones, but maybe it's happening subconsciously. or there's all sorts of gestures and things that I can't even consciously articulate. That stuff's happening.

57:04And look, I actually think the AI is going to get pretty good at some of that too because it's going to train on a lot of things that we're not going to necessarily pick up. But I've got to believe being in the room with someone, knowing that other person is sentient, they're taking the time to care about me is going to pay a huge psychological dividend. And if that person can be augmented with avatar versions of themselves, well, that's awesome too. I've been fascinated all my life with finding out the ultimate way that human beings can perform. And this man to my left, I consider to be an expert on that topic and many other topics.

57:36And so if you started a program called Max Out, your ultimate guest would be the gentleman to my left. He's a multiple-time New York Times bestselling author in all kinds of different categories. He is the executive director of the Flow Research Collective. And he's becoming a good friend of mine. And I can't wait to talk about Flow today with all of you with Stephen Kotler. So, Stephen, thanks for being here. Pleasure, Ed. One of the points that you made about cars leads me to your new book. Ah. And so the book is The Future is Faster Than You Think, How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries, and Lives.

58:07And so, why? I think culturally, we could enter a flow state as a culture. In other words, I'm watching how fast the world is changing, how much performance and lifestyle and access to information and all these changes have happened in such a short window of time even just look back 10 or 15 years there's a difference in how we live our lives now and if you can think forward i've heard you and peter talk about if you can even think forward 30 years which is about as far forward as he says he can see but in terms of all these things that are coming i want to talk about that because i just want people to get a picture like you don't have a choice what you've said is you've got to decide in your life whether or not you're just going to embrace the science of being a peak performer or not.

58:50And if you don't, you're probably heading towards not neutral. You're probably heading towards depression, frustration, anxiety, fear, these negative things. The other part of it is you better get on board because culture is changing so quickly. The way we live is changing so quickly. So to me, flow state, embracing that, getting great at it, getting in it more often, and your latest book go right together. Yeah, they do and I'm going to do three things to make all this make sense one uh you pointed out that I cover a broad range seems like I cover a broad range and I'm other than the fact that I am a huge animal advocate and have done a lot of work on animals in the environment that's the odd man out right and that's just personal I love animals I love the environment I like plants animals and ecosystems they're the ultimate underdog and I like fighting for the underdog I love that so there's all that but everything else I study the impossible when does the impossible become possible.

59:43That's what I study. And when you see the impossible become possible, you tend to see two things. One of which we've talked about, which is flow. That shows up all the time. The other thing you see is when the impossible becomes possible, you basically, I always say you find, you're seeing people extend human capability, and that usually means flow. Sometimes it could mean other things. Like during the Renaissance, it meant the printing press, and everybody had access to information for the first time, right? But often it's flow, or flow is in that mix. And the other side is people leveraging disruptive technology that's the other half of this equation right the impossible becomes possible you know even like you look at like the skiers that I was running around with in the 90s Shane McConkie who's the most famous of all of them one of his giant contributions is he invented new skis that were much wider so we had big platforms to land on so suddenly the human body could jump off hundred-foot cliffs because the platform got bigger and it was better made and all at the same time that they started harnessing flow in ways nobody's ever done so convergence of both that's what you see so what's happening now is we're seeing convergence we're seeing artificial intelligence smash into robotics smash into 3d printing smash into biotechnology smash into material science and the effects are are insane and so ray kurzwell head of engineering at google uh so does their ai stuff smartest probably smartest guy in the world on this topic has worked the math and he believes we're going to essentially experience about 100 years of technological change over the next 10 years so you think back to 1920 think the now think everything that's happened in that period and put it in the next 10 years that's what's coming does everyone hear that did you get that okay that's huge and you you got to understand like for entrepreneurs for people who want to get out in front of it oh my god there's i mean we're going to create more wealth in the next decade than we have over the past hundred years right there's more google size opportunities sort of like waiting right now than ever before so tremendous opportunity if you're an established organization a traditional business something that's been built for safety and security oh you're screwed that's right get nimble get agile because you've got a problem other than that so here's where all this ties together we have a problem uh dealing with this amount of change, which is our brains are local and linear.

1:01:59We evolved in an environment where local, everything's a day's walk away. Linear, rate of change is really slow. Great granddad's life, great grandson's life, roughly the same. Not much changes. Today, global and exponential, right? Happens in China, we hear about a second later. Exponential meaning like the difference between last week and next week could be enormous, enormous. So the brain doesn't work at that speed or at that scale fundamental problem and there's a third problem which we'll get to in half a second flow is the only time we can process information at speed and at scale even better so there's a part of your brain right here the medial prefrontal cortex it does a bunch of different things long-term memory retrieval blah blah it's really creative self-expression and it's a very selfish part of your brain so if you think about yourself it will get really active If you think about your wife, it'll get a little less active, you'll stay active.

1:02:53If you think about me, you don't know me as well as your wife, it'll shut down a little bit more. Think about a total stranger, it's turned off, right? If I ask you to think about who you're gonna be in 10 years and who you're gonna become, you would think this part of the brain gets active. It doesn't. It teaches, the brain treats the person we're going to become as a total stranger. This is why people have a hard time staying on diets. This is why people have a hard time lifting weights, right? Oh my God, it's gonna hurt today. The benefit's not gonna show up for two years, right? Or why do I wanna get that prostate exam?

1:03:24It's because the person who's gonna benefit most from that stuff is not the person who you are today. Literally the brain treats it like a stranger. Flow is the only time you can think about who you're gonna become in the future and this part of your brain stays active. So it gives us an enormous advantage. One of the things that happens in flow, the technical term for it is the watchtower effect. It basically feels like you're high above your life. I have insights, I can see farther, right? and it really comes because our sense of self is shut down and we like we can think of the future and this part of the brain stays active it's a couple of those things working together but it means that if you're going to plan for your future if you're going to try to steer your company into the future like you want to do this the thinking at least in flow for sure if you can because it's it's the best we can think for the future and we can think fearlessly about the future which is a big deal all of this is converging the fearlessness part being in flow being able to process us information this quickly and you guys one of the things all of you entrepreneurs listen which is a large part of the audience here too what or you were going to come to change i've heard you say this and i believe this there's not going to be a single industry the next 10 years it's the same yeah we get so in the book we go through the 11 largest industries on earth and we track what's converging into these industries and and what are the changes that we see already like there's nothing that the book is out i mean it's it's it's outrageous i will like flat out it's it's outrageous um everybody has the same like everybody has the same oh my god my brain is gonna melt and by the way it's not like i had to stop writing the book i wrote a sci-fi novel in the middle because i had to i couldn't i was starting to like how do these things converge and what is that i want to know what was it going to be like to live in that world so i literally created a universe five years in the future and put a character in it and wrote a novel so I could write this book with Peter because I like I could hold the individual stuff in my line but once you started putting it together I was like oh this is really hard to track and even think about what it means to be human is going to change I'll give you an example I think that's probably true I do I let's well for certainly CRISPR stuff and genetics we got we got at least touch on this because the vast majority of people CRISPR is here now so this isn't like you know eight years from now CRISPR technology exists last year they used CRISPR and they edited sickle cell anemia out of the I mean sickle cell anemia right it's 30 there are 50 ,000 heritable diseases right 32 ,000 of them are single mutations which is what CRISPR is designed to change so 32 ,000 genetic diseases could go away this decade right I mean that's right that's a radically different world?

1:06:09Right. And is everybody getting that? So I think a vast majority of people don't know what even CRISPR is. Right. And they think it's a future thing, but it's here now. Guys, we are currently, not only just as a disease eradication, that changes what it means to be a human being. How long you're going to live, how healthy you're going to live, what your life experience is going to be like. And having said that, like I have a sister who's got diabetic retinopathy, right? Which is one of the original places this stuff started to really work. Guys, we're remaking the retina like blind people are seeing like this is remarkable stuff that's happening right now it's a bit so i was in the room uh as a wired reporter the very first time the first artificial vision implant was ever turned on so the very first time there was a blind guy who was made to see again nobody was in the room i was actually it was seen funny story so i'm in this lab is professor william de bell we're in new york the patient his name is yams and this is so this is 2000 he's literally got what we would used to call stereo jacks in the side of his head so he's literally got wires jacked into the side of his head he's got an implant in his brain from lying for 20 years and they're about to it's literally they're counting down to when they hit the button it's 10 9 and i'm like and i realize i'm sitting across from him and I'm a reporter.

1:07:28Our job is not to be history, right? Like our job is to report on history. You don't want to be the history. And so what do I do? I push back and try to get out of the way. He's blind. He's been tracking like motion through sound for 20 years. So what happens? Three, two, one, I try to get out of the way. And I always say there's a moral here, which is you can never get out of the way of the future it's coming for you whether or not you like it i thought that was i thought that was amazing i was literally like trying to duck so give them uh you guys i just want to get a little bit of picture of this so if you're tying together where we were in the beginning to where we are now this is such a great time to be alive it's such a remarkable time and and frankly the the the concept of how long you're going to have had dr david sinclair on oh yeah the other day.

1:08:17We talked a little about CRISPR more off camera than on, but just give them a flavor just for fun. So we opened the book with flying cars, which are like everybody's crazy sci-fi technology. And it turns out that they're here, like there are a hundred different car companies, or there are a hundred different companies making flying cars. Every car company is in it. Toyota put 400 million, 396 million into Joby Aviation flying car company three weeks ago. Bell Helicopter, the big, right? They just changed their name to Bell because they dropped, because no more helicopters, flying cars, and they're the ultimate conversion technology.

1:08:50Flying cars happen because AI hit robotics, hit material science, hit 3D printing, et cetera, et cetera. And wow, that's totally revolutionary. Crazy flying cars. But it's not just flying cars. It's also autonomous cars. Every major car company has an autonomous car. Like Waymo is rolling out on our streets, Google's autonomous car company. This decade or this year, simultaneously, Obviously, Hyperloop, high-speed trains, LA to Las Vegas in 25 minutes, right? There are 25 different Hyperloop projects in the world today. Then Elon Musk, the boring company. We're going to drill tunnels under cities, and this is already happening all over the place, and put cars on high-speed conveyor belts.

1:09:33And Elon's crazy idea, the rockets that he's using right now to put satellites in space that he wants to take people to Mars with in the 2030s, he has promised that before 2030 you can use them for terrestrial travel. So New York to Shanghai in 39 minutes. Unbelievable. The point is not just it's one, it's all of these over the next 10 years. And you have to, like this does, like think about simple things, car insurance. Well, if the cars are all autonomous, you don't need cars. In fact, Waymo, when you sit in one of their autonomous cars, you're automatically insured. It happens automatically.

1:10:10the risk profile has shifted, right? So whole categories of insurance go away. But simple stuff. If Las Vegas to Los Angeles is 25 minutes, how big is the local dating pool? You got it. Right? How big is the size of the local school district, right? You live in LA, you don't like the schools your kids are going to? Suddenly they can go to school in Vegas, right? It's an hour away or 20 minutes away. All fundamental things. The way we like to talk about it is with when you have solitary exponentials ai right whatever they tend to disrupt products services and a little bit they make markets wobble so like classic example is um netflix right streaming video it's one x accelerating technology and they put blockbuster out of business right so this is product service and a little bit of the market with converging exponentials you get the scale increases massively.

1:11:03It's good products, services, markets, institutions, and all the structures that support them. So right, suddenly the local dating pool, the local school, like really foundational things. What's it do to the real estate market? Oh, the real estate market is insane. Right. Because, and it's, and the consequence, so you went to someplace smart, right? So suddenly you can live, flying cars, by the way, do 150 miles an hour and they can, they're kept, they can do three hours of continuous flight. So imagine how far you can live. And And this has enormous environmental consequences. The best thing we can do for the environment is leave nature alone.

1:11:37And suddenly we can live in, right? You were just in Coeur d 'Alene. You were talking about how much you like Idaho. And one of the reasons we like Idaho so much is because there aren't many people there. That's about to change with flying cars. Or we're going to have to legislate around it and think about this stuff and get out ahead in front of it. That's just one. That's just transportation, right? Every other industry is just as crazy. We're going to look at our lifetime back and go, most people used to live within 30 miles of where they worked we're going to look back at the time and go how bizarre what a small world it once was and how much where you want to go to dinner at night and by the way let's let's talk about your new industry you're now in the podcasting business and we were just talking you like to make your things an hour 45 minutes to an hour long because the average commute yeah it's 45 minutes to an hour right so and you're more popular on audio than video because people are listening to you so in flying cars or in autonomous cars you can have a completely it's a theater it's a moving theater right if you want you can have a desk to work at you can have blah blah so suddenly people podcasters who have been relying on audio right it may go to video because the autonomous cars like the cars where people are driving to work the commute hasn't changed but they don't longer have to drive and now they can watch it even like i'll tell you something crazy nobody likes it when i talk about this out loud but everybody on the inside of the autonomous car industry is talking about it autonomous cars are going to revive the sex industry in ways we haven't even like it's a brothel on wheels right imagine what happens with tinder like tinder for autonomous want to share a car home right i mean like people are talking like they don't like it when you talk about it out loud but like that's what i mean when you talk about like the fundamental fabric of society is gonna change all that stuff is going to shift in wild, weird ways.

1:13:28And you know, one of the reasons we wrote the book is most people are scared about the future. And that fear is based on a lack of knowledge. So go out, read about what's coming, and figure out how you can take advantage of it in your industry. Get their book. I'm serious. I endorse books when someone's on my show, if I've read the book. You gotta get the book. Why would you not want to know this information? Why would you not want to know what's coming? Why would you not want to begin to think this way? And when you can converge these two things, everybody, when you have the convergence of this flow state and the convergence of what's coming, and people say, wow, that sounds pie in the sky.

1:14:01Many of the things we've described are here now. Most of my very wealthy friends when we're talking about different things that we're being pitched on investment-wise, I mean, I'll be honest with you, flying cars and autonomous cars are constantly coming up all the time, right now. Like significant investments from very smart people. Yeah, and I mean, Tony, Peters, and what are they doing? Longevity and stem cells, right? Like our friends are, Peter's got four different longevity companies. Right, right. Right? Like, I don't know how many Tony has, but like. A bunch. Right? A bunch. Like, they got a lot of money, they want to live forever.

1:14:30Okay, cool. I'll, like. Right. Thank you. Let's go one more area, because I have not talked about this with you at all, and I'm just curious, because we're talking about travel, and there's all kinds of, there's quantum computers, and all these other things we could be talking about. And if you think that this is pie in the sky stuff, if I'd have told you 10 years ago, Even 10 years ago that you would just say, I want a jug of milk and it's at your house the next day. You just say it out loud into the air and the milk shows up at your freaking house. You thought I was absolutely crazy. My son and I were touring this college and they were showing us how amazing their library was.

1:15:05Their library. And I'm like, these still exist? You used to have to get in your car, drive somewhere, give them your card with ink on a deal write it on there check you a book out like think dude wait do you remember learning we're roughly the same as you remember learning the card catalog like that was a thing we had to learn here's how we use the card catalog and i was like right it's stupid things you take for granted like you used to have a thomas guide like that wasn't long ago i just looked at a pretty vintage car not that vintage was there a thomas guide yeah so when we're talking about these things guys you have to you you you must it's a necessity that you're being to think this way i'm just curious because I haven't asked you this what do you think it means for space travel do you have any insights oh yeah so we at the end of the book I know that's where you're going the book is really I it's focused on the next 10 years what's going to happen the next 10 years but we pull back in the last chapter for the hundred year view and two things to know about the hundred year view so Raker as well also worked the numbers on what happens over a hundred years so it's 10 years where it's 100 years worth of change over the next 10 years deep breath before the end of the century according to Kurzweil who's barely wrong about anything like he's just not wrong he's made so many predictions he's batting like 86 percent I mean from the fall of the Soviet Union to the arrival like I mean just he doesn't seem to miss with this stuff because it follows just there's math underneath it essentially he says over the next 100 years before the end of the century we're going to experience 20 ,000 years of technological change so that's birth of agriculture to the industrial revolution twice in the next 80 years so let's say he's off by 50 percent right let's say he's spectacularly wrong right and it's only 10 ,000 years are you kidding right so one of the things that's going to happen and we look at this in the book is this is the century that we stop being a single planetary species we become a multi-planetary species and this you know it being partnered with peter for almost 20 years at this point um you know this is his big passion so i've got to see it up close a lot um and i've watched this you know go from peter's crazy idea that he shared with a handful of other people into a billion dollar industry growing towards a trillion dollar industry.

1:17:35So it's really right. It's massively matured. But and it's I mean, it's really funny because what we write about in the book is like, if you think about the space race, you know, I say that to most people, they think USSR versus USA, right? That's the like what got us into space. It was well, there's competition between two superpowers. What's going to unlock the space frontier this century? Competition between two superpowers only those powers are Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk right they're arguing Bezos got blue origin Musk has got SpaceX and they both and they've got different viewpoints Bezos wants to go to the moon and build space floating space colonies Musk wants to go to Mars right and that is what is unlocking the space frontier and I mean by the way just so people can wrap their heads around this this isn't actually in the book but there's a company I'm gonna plank the name of it Peter's been talking about it for weeks now they figured out how do 3d print in a couple of weeks a rocket a rocket a rocket and this is amazing because it used to be like you know rockets are billion-dollar toys and like if you screw something up in design right like you have to you build in you're like oh damn I wish the fin was five degrees off or like what you you're screwed now we can build we can iterate in a rocket in two weeks like this like this ever happened.

1:18:54And this is already, like, this is here right now. Really cool, really interesting. So yeah, this is, and it's probably going to happen over the next 20 years.

1:19:07When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. When your computer breaks, you don't wait for it to magically start working again. You fix the problem. So why wait to hire the people your company desperately needs?

1:19:46Use Indeed's sponsored jobs to hire top talent fast. And even better, you only pay for results. There's no need to wait. Speed up your hiring with a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Milet Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. My guest today is an eight-time Emmy Award winner, and you probably best know him from Dateline or Catch a Predator, but he's the first guest I've ever had on my show, where I'm glad to be introducing him to all of you and not having him introducing himself to me.

1:20:29Because the last thing you want to hear if you're in someone's living room or kitchen is, hi, I'm Chris Hansen. Grab a seat. So I'm super glad that I'm the one introducing him. And he's got a podcast out right now called Predators I've Caught. I'm super fascinated by this man. It's kind of a giveaway as to who it is. So Chris Hansen, welcome to the show. And thank you very much. I suppose you're going to tell me to have a seat for this, right? That's exactly what we're doing. And I'm fascinated by you, Chris. Do you think that a couple more things I'm fascinated by? I mean, it's like for me, there's a conversation many years in the making of wanting to ask these questions.

1:21:03I know it is for my audience, too. Do you think that forecast a little bit? You've been in this space a while. Is there a future that you see coming where predatory type people change their behavior? Is there another venue or forum other than just online? is anything you see that we should be looking out for that's sort of the next level right as you've said we didn't have text and phone back in the day now we've got instagram and tiktok and dating apps is there anything on the horizon i think i think whatever the next thing is people will try to exploit it you know whether it's uh you know another level of communication you know another level of internet connectivity.

1:21:47You know, we see it with the interactive video games. You know, that's another thing. People think, well, the kids stay playing a video game. Well, they don't know who's on the other end of that. Maybe you say they're, you know, Sam Johnstone from wherever, but you don't know who that really is, you know? So I think it's really, it's the same predatory behavior taken to the next level and exploiting whatever technology is available. I mean, the old days, you know, you can sell the same tractor six times at the bus station, you know, to the same guy looking to buy a tractor. You can get away with it about, you know, seven times before the sheriff would figure out what you're up to.

1:22:26And today, you know, it's just all you need is a picture of the tractor. And, you know, people sell some multiple times, you know, all the time online. So you got to be careful. I'm just going to just add to what you're saying that, you know, I'm a target for certain people just because of, you know, net worth or whatever or reach. And I just want to share with the audience that when someone someone doesn't usually come right directly at me with their thing they'd like to get from me, it trickles over time. And it can seem like a very normal relationship in the beginning, even for an extended period of time.

1:23:00But what I didn't know was in the back of their mind, they were waiting for that moment where I was the most comfortable. I was the most vulnerable. I was the most trusting. We are, we are being groomed by people for different things other than just what Chris is experiencing or experienced. So that's true. Isn't it, Chris? There's a grooming that someone's, someone who's trying to get something from you. I mean, I've seen it, you know, I've seen it in my life. I mean, you know, I said to people, I said, do you, do you, do you really think that I'm the guy you want to try and con? How do you think that's going to possibly go?

1:23:36And mostly people, you know, make up a story, but it's happened a couple of times where, you know, somebody is, I've caught somebody trying to take advantage or an online scam or, you know, the typical phone calls you get where, you know, it's somebody trying to get money from you for some nefarious reason. And, you know, that you can tell because they'll say Kristoff or, you know, be half the name that doesn't fit on their on their readout sheet. Now, put an ER on that. Take the off off that. Does that name sound at all familiar to you? Oh, my God. Sorry about you. They picked the worst dude.

1:24:17Could you could you pick a worse human being on this day? my last question i'm curious redemption but i just i think i've always in my mind thought when it came to sexual predators physical predators physical abusers i've just sort of always that's been a category that i went no they're not redeemed they're they don't come back that they don't get a second chance i'm just being candid about everything liars cheap yeah yeah philanderers bad people gossipers they can all be redeemed and right that cat those two categories for me have always been nope they're not redemptive no way no however would i trust them again well i think i think there's a there's a category of predators who can never be reformed i think they're they're definitely it is you know a group and no matter what you do or how you punish or anything else they're going to figure out a way to pray they're they're hardwired to do it And that's probably, at least in my experience, of 30 of these guys, you're never going to change them.

1:25:21And we've seen them. We've seen them get out. We've seen them re-offend. We've seen guys who successfully go on to have productive lives. And I think there are categories that with monitoring and probation and some sort of treatment, I think they'll be fine. But we've also had guys in prominent positions who, you know, the therapist and had their parole officer visit. And they're not supposed to have a device that has access to the Internet. And the phone rings while they're in with the therapist and the probation officer. And they're caught red handed with the phone. I mean, you know, it's like, come on.

1:25:55Jesus, could you at least try? You know, but they can't be reformed in some cases. I'm so excited. I went to the higher register. I did it. Where was that? I haven't heard that out of you ever. We were talking off camera about my incredibly deep voice. and one of the reasons we were talking about this because this is one of the most observant people on planet Earth, I think, and also one of the funniest. You realize I'm watching everything you do. I'm doing it. I'm watching everything you do right now. I'm using the deeper tone of the voice, presentational. Make sure that people can max out, do what they need to do.

1:26:28This is what it's all about. I don't care. Listen, I was at the gym the other day. I know you probably saw me there. A lot of people do it. You know why? Because I was shooting an Instagram video from the gym, so you knew I was at the gym, because not everybody goes to the gym, and we got everybody at the gym through me. Oh, we're going to do this, aren't we, today? This is awesome. This is Frank Caliando. I didn't even let you intro me. See, you were worried about me talking enough. You're like, what can we do to get through this? I made a checklist. What you need to do is write things down. In the age of social media, even those of you that are in sales or in marketing, One, you can hear how cognizant an entertainer is of this, the priority of that.

1:27:11But also the second thing is everything now has to have an entertainment aspect to it. Even your presentation, it's almost like infotainment. There's got to be something where people enjoy the experience of receiving your sales pitch, of receiving your information, of interacting with you. It's all about the experience. But the one thing, like the fly just flew by you. And off camera, I told you - One of my bits, like Al Pacino, it's like he's always looking at a fly. Did I lick something? You got it. Was the fly there? No, it was some white thing. Oh. You got it. You just ate it. Oh. Whatever it was, it was yummy.

1:27:42Okay. You know what that was? Success. I don't know why I looked at that camera. That's totally the wrong camera. But Donald Trump would do that. I'm looking at the perfect camera right now, and if I'm not, that person's going to be gone. Well, I don't even know what I was going to say. That was so weird. No, but I was saying... See how you get close. Like in the zone. Like there's a force field on there. It's an energy thing. It just gets you close. Oh, okay. So, but that's a good example though. Off the camera, I told you, and you agreed with me, that we're very similar in that we're both very, you're hyper observant of people.

1:28:17Like, I think you can't do what you do. Correct me if I'm wrong in a minute, but like, I don't think you can do what you do unless you're just unbelievably observant of people. And I am too. I told you that because my dad was a drinker when he was younger, I'd have to really, I learned at like four or five years old to observe my dad when he'd come home to know which version I was getting. Was I getting the sober, fun, loving dad or was I kind of getting the dad who may be a little bit tired or in a bad mood or, you know. So you learn to read the audience. You learn to read the audience and then be a person based on that audience and who you that version of you or that piece of you.

1:28:50For me, I was in high school and when I was in high school, I would actually know when the when the class. I couldn't tell you how. Maybe I had spider sense. I don't know. but I couldn't tell you how but I could understand I could feel when the class wasn't understanding stuff so I would ask questions that would help the other students and I was a B kind of student I wasn't an A student I struggled this with my son who's way smarter than me but has the same mentality as me and I wish I could just go look you could you could be so much further along in the rest of your life if you knew what I knew now but I would actually ask questions I remember being in a specific Spanish class and saying something, does that mean?

1:29:31And then whatever. And the teacher would say, yes. And then a couple more sentences to explain it. And then I could feel the other kids around the room actually engaging and going, okay, now, now we got it. And I don't know why I did it. I don't know. The teachers would always tell my parents I was a leader. And my dad would be like, this kid's not a leader. What are you talking about? Like, because I just, I didn't have a ton of confidence as a kid. I still don't. It still hits me. Like, I know what I can do and I know what I'm really good at, but anything new, a new adventure is difficult for me.

1:30:01Right now in stand-up, I'm trying lots of new stuff and it's not all impression-based. When I go and do the impression, if I know the impression is done, they're never really done, but it's worked on to a point where it's ready to go, that I can sell it. But to sell me talking, this has taken what I'm doing right now, and it's because I've been podcasting a lot and talking as myself, that I've learned to feel that I'm actually interesting as myself talking. And I can go into this other stuff, which is what sets me apart. I can just be talking and become Donald Trump or go Morgan Freeman or just Senator John Mann or John Gruden.

1:30:38I can just go from voice to voice. You become like a seven-year-old girl. I've never seen anything like you go from just this guy like, all right. Oh my gosh. That's so awesome. I am. I'm just smitten with you. Yeah. I love, it's why I did the show. I'm telling you right now. And by the way, I appreciate you saying that about your confidence of it. Because you really can't transfer to someone that which you're not feeling. So like even in your standup, like you do need to get to that level of comfort with the new material to transfer the certainty to people. I think that in everything we do, that's just something to be conscious of.

1:31:09like other guys I work with that are in the communication. I'm like, you have to get to the place where you're that confident and certain because the audience senses your lack of certainty, especially by the way, especially, and this is for you salespeople too, especially when there is a portion of your presentation you're more certain about. They can feel the energy difference when you go into the stuff that you're not as certain about. The contrast gives you a space that's dangerous energy-wise when you're presenting. A lot of people can feel truth. That's what actors are really good at, creating truth now some people are good great actors and they can create a truth but people can read truth and when you're coming from something that's why we use anecdotes personal anecdotes because an emotion is tied to that inside of you and then you can tie it and if it really hits you the audience will feel that as well if you just tell it if you make up a story a lot of the audience some of it might buy you you know buy it but other people are going to be like, I don't know.

1:32:08I don't know why. And they might not even know why, but it doesn't, when you have that emotion, when you have that, it's entertainment's not really different than sales. It's not. No. I mean, when you're an actor, you're just selling that you're somebody else. Great. And I think, I say this to all the time of people, I'm really glad we're going here for a second. I don't think you can transfer to somebody or an audience, a person or an audience, that which you're not experiencing yourself. So if the story is true, or if you do believe it, or if you are confident in it, you'll transfer that certainty to somebody, that energy to someone.

1:32:38If you're not, they feel it. And that's why a lot of times some of my stand-up friends, when they are trying new material, it's difficult to decipher whether the material is good or not because it's not the material that may not be good. It's your lack of comfort and certainty with it. That's also true for those of you that are in sales. It may not be that your presentation is not really what it should be. It may be that you're not yet repetitious enough with it or confident enough with it, where you're transferring the energy. It may not be the words or the joke. Do you and I didn't I didn't learn about this until acting I never I just recently the last few years started taking acting classes I mean I always thought there were there's no way that that stuff's real or works so I met a guy in Phoenix his name's Matt Dearing and he's been out to the east coast to train with like some real big-time acting coaches and I never realized how important it was to have things and this is a sales thing this is even outside but it works in knowing your lines in entertainment in a script yeah if you can say a script with while doing something else then you really know it wow that's so if you memorize to the point where you like what we would memorize a script and then what we do is we play catch or be doing something else while reciting the script back and forth if you can do that it's second nature because we okay so i'm talking and i'm trying to present an idea to you right so i could be doing anything i could be checking this pillow over here i could i can do anything i want i can be taking a drink i naturally pause i know when to start talking again but if it were a script you ever watch it you ever watch somebody on screen and you know they're like okay now i have to take a drink yes and you can see that happen yes or you try it yourself that's because you don't know the dialogue that well that you can't you just can't talk through it very good that's It's an amazing, and that's what the best actors can do.

1:34:26They can memorize to a point where they just talk. Well, that's outstanding. I've not heard that before. So if you think, if you have to think, this is as an actor, and I would say this works in sales too. If you have to think about what you're going to say, you've already lost the audience for that amount of time. Because they're going, wait, you ever see somebody do this? And it's not planned. There can be moments where you're thinking of something, but you come out of character. of it because when you're doing a presentation you're kind of in your character mode of your presentation version of yourself so if you come out you gotta think oh what was i gonna say here that part right there all of a sudden they go he doesn't know he's talking doesn't always talk about or they don't trust what you're about to say being true that's so interesting you say that i just want to weave a line in here about it one of the things i always say is that you need to know your lines or your presentation so well and whatever you're doing that um it's reflexive meaning you don't think you be because under pressure under pressure you respond reflexively to things and if that reflexes you don't know what you're screwed i just interviewed caesar milan the dog whisperer and he said he's all about energy with these animals right it's just really interesting and i just did it this week it'll come out you know before this comes out but what's interesting was he said that when he's in best influence with an animal is that he is being not thinking which is exactly what you just said i mean when you can when you can relate and it's a give and take with the audience or whatever you're doing we're doing that right now there isn't so much we're not trying to keep to a script like one of the things you talked about before we came on here it's like don't have part a part b it's not my turn to talk it's not your turn to talk it's let's talk together because that's how people actually talk correct in a script if you don't have it memorized and you're thinking you don't have it memorized enough you're like okay it's my turn to talk that's already taking you out of the script it's my turn to talk you just have to hear it and go right and you're in the moment that I think that applies to all the sales all presentations so do I everything you're doing it's that don't think don't plan just be gosh it's so good because I I'm really glad we're going there because I did something recently on listening that you you're making reference to earlier and the only way in sales or even in anything like this is the only way that you can really listen to somebody is that you are already very comfortable with what you would say so that you don't have to be thinking about what you're going to say back to somebody, you can actually just be present.

1:36:46And don't plan what you're about to say back. Listen to what they have to say. Because if I listen to what you have to say, my planned response may not fit what you just said. That's good. So if you do want to get a message across, make sure you address what the person just said first. This is not acting. This is because you can't do that. You can't change the lines in acting if you're doing a script that's written. But in terms of sales relationships in business, don't just have this next thing planned to say because that will turn a person off. It's like you're literally, if somebody uses a word, you using that as a connection, you lose a connection when somebody is doing something completely different and on a different plane than you.

1:37:34When they're going off and like, okay, but let's bring it back. Like, it's not even that. It's you asked me a question and I start saying things about acting again. But it had nothing to do with it because I had this plan in my head and that's not what people want. I watch that a lot in interviews on podcasts, too. I'm like, oh, you you didn't even hear what they just said. You just went back into the next thing you had on the list. Do you know? I'm curious. Do you know when you're losing an audience? And if you do know you're losing it, is there a way to change that? uh i mean right now i lose an audience more because i go off on these tangents to try different things but i'm almost purposely doing that speaking about that i think that that's that's uh being willing to take some risks a hundred percent because i'm so scared i got i got so happy with what i was doing with my act and the formulas in my act that i didn't take a lot of risk and it became you ever hear the story about stories and this is a psychological i guess as well somebody gets in a car accident the best thing to do is get them in a car again the longer you wait the tougher it is to get them back in that car because they'll build up they'll make the event bigger and bigger bigger i was on stage doing the same stuff over and aboard with my act not taking chances not learning not getting better and it took its home but i was out there just making again that was the business side of me not the art or the relationship side of me the relationship there is between me and the audience and doing a lot of the same stuff over and over now i have to do certain things if i don't do a john madden impression i don't do a morgan freeman i don't do some of these impressions people know me for people will get people get upset i believe they're still an audience and i'm going to give them the things they want but in different ways and lots of different stuff as well yeah you go see the rolling stones they better play satisfaction right you're like wait a minute man i mean i want your new stuff yeah anytime you go see a new band you're like i i'll listen to some of your new stuff but i came to hear some of the old stuff.

1:39:29I want to hear Piano Man. Exactly. If I don't get Piano Man, I'm kind of, I'm sad. And he's an entertainer who gets it. And he'll do that. Even if you play the new stuff. And it's the art, it's the combination of art and business, which is what pretty much everything is. This is the Ed Myland Show.